BONUS: Tannie Shannon’s Tapes of Hilton Crawford

2024-06-14 00:26:05

Twelve-year-old McKay Everett disappeared from his Texas home in September 1995. His father Carl returned from an Amway meeting to find the back door ajar and the telephone ringing. On the line, a woman with a raspy voice demanded $500,000. Over the next week, the FBI played a game of cat-and-mouse with the kidnappers, who used inside information to stay one step ahead of the investigation. Ultimately the FBI uncovered a series of crimes that started long before McKay was taken. Most shocking of all was the suspect. McKay had been betrayed by someone he trusted – a pillar of the community hiding a dark secret. But decades later, McKay’s mother, Paulette, still isn’t satisfied with the official story. She doesn’t think everyone involved has been brought to justice. Ransom: Season 1 - Position of Trust is a story of greed and betrayal and how one’s outward appearance can be dangerously deceiving.

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Speaker 4
[00:00.00 - 00:09.56]

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Speaker 5
[01:04.56 - 01:15.54]

Hi, producer Ben Kebrick here. Author Tani Shannon interviewed Hilton Crawford in prison over the course of years for his book, Seed of Villainy. And early on, Tani tape recorded his interviews.

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Speaker 1
[01:15.98 - 01:20.58]

My first interview with Crawford was in December of 1996.

[01:21.44 - 01:34.38]

. And I continued to use recording devices until probably early 1999, when the warden withdrew my privileges of taking in recording devices.

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Speaker 5
[01:34.86 - 01:47.48]

When I heard about Tani's tapes, I lit up. As a podcast producer, recordings like this are gold. I'm always trying to get as close to the horse's mouth as I can. So I was excited by the possibility of using these tapes. in the podcast.

[01:48.18 - 01:59.82]

I interviewed Tani Shannon multiple times. Always asked about these recordings. We talked about the tapes and that stuff. I was curious if you had any more time to think about that.

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Speaker 1
[02:01.14 - 02:24.40]

I've thought about it, but I haven't come to a decision. That's kind of giving up my intellectual property. And I don't really feel very good about doing that. Honestly, the last few years that I went and taped the interviews, we were more or less just visiting. Most of the interviewing was actually done.

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Speaker 5
[02:25.22 - 02:47.88]

Throughout her interviews, Tani remained hesitant to share the tapes, and I struggled to understand exactly why. You mentioned those audio recordings. I don't know if maybe it's something where I can be looking over it, but it stays in your possession. If that kind of helps at all from your perspective.

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Speaker 1
[02:48.76 - 03:08.36]

Well, we'll have to talk about that. I don't mind sharing little odds and ends here and there. But just turning you over the tapes, I don't feel good with that.

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Speaker 5
[03:08.70 - 03:21.14]

But, just so I can understand, is that because you're afraid of us misusing it, or it's stuff that you feel is between you and Crawford, so you're uncomfortable with just anyone even hearing it?

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Speaker 1
[03:21.40 - 03:25.48]

A little bit of all of that. It's not something that I'm comfortable with.

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Speaker 5
[03:27.44 - 03:47.46]

In the end, after making some edits to it, Tani Shannon did end up sharing a digitization of one of his early interviews with Hilton. We processed the audio to make it a little easier to understand, and edited it lightly ourselves to make it easier to follow. But we tried to keep it close to the original, so you'd have a better sense of who Hilton was and how he spoke.

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Speaker 2
[03:48.90 - 04:03.52]

Well, I'm a police officer. I went to work for them in 1961.. I was a patrolman. I went to work on a midnight shift. My captain was Captain Kelly, a very fine man.

[04:04.84 - 04:12.70]

Is he still living, do you know? Captain Kelly. I don't know. He lived on Magnolia Street. I stayed there until 1966..

[04:14.92 - 04:42.62]

And then I left, and I went to the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department there in Beaumont. I went to work over there for Sheriff R.E. Culberson. And I know he's living because he was on the TV saying that, even though I ran against him for sheriff, that he liked me, and how good a law enforcement officer I was. But I went to work there in the jail in 1966..

[04:44.88 - 04:50.04]

Approximately 1967, I went into the Criminal and Warrant Division.

[04:52.44 - 05:13.20]

And then, around 1969, I was made captain of the Criminal and Warrant Division. I stayed there as captain until 1972 or 73.. And then I was talked into running for sheriff against Culberson.

[05:15.60 - 05:32.08]

I think it was for the whole county. It was right. about 90,000 votes was cast that year in the election. It was 1974, I think, was the election, and I got beat by 1,103 votes. What, I recall that you were officer of the year at least one year.

[05:32.76 - 05:41.22]

I was officer of the year twice. I was officer of the year 1971 and then 72..

[05:43.74 - 06:03.62]

Now, one of the officers of the year, it wasn't from the police or the law enforcement people. It was from a group of black people that made me the officer of the year. I mean, it was an award, but it came from a church group or some group. They gave me a plaque.

[06:05.46 - 06:24.08]

I mean, I appreciated it and I honored it and everything. But the way the media was blowing, saying I was officer of the year, that sounded like, you know, I was voted by all the law enforcement people. Was the other one, was it like a hundred club award or something like that? Yes. A hundred club award.

[06:24.60 - 06:30.50]

Was there a specific incident that led to that award?

[06:32.46 - 06:54.18]

I don't think there's one specific incident. I just knew that we, in the criminal warrants session that I was captain of, that we cleared up a lot of cases. And we cleared up a lot of burglaries and things like that. It was following our way. Whenever we'd go out to investigate something, it would be cleared up.

[06:55.20 - 07:18.14]

And I was also in charge of looking for people out of state also. And we had a high percentage rate of arresting people that was wanted, that had left the state or left our area. And we'd arrest them out to California or different places. We were responsible to go, get them and pick them up and bring them back.

[07:20.02 - 07:39.74]

So I was born in Beaumont, too. Is that right? Yeah, 1939.. When I was 16, 17,, I was the president of the youth groups, citywide, hymn singing on every Sunday night at the church, all the youth. Are you a religious person yourself?

[07:40.14 - 07:42.32]

You consider yourself a Christian? Yes, sir.

[07:43.90 - 07:59.52]

Played, I loved sports. I went to teach elementary school in Holland. It's still there. When I was in the 6th grade, I played ball for the 7th grade. And when I was in the 7th grade, I played ball for the 8th grade.

[07:59.86 - 08:14.02]

And in the 8th grade, I played ball for the 9th grade. Football, baseball? I played in junior high. I played football and basketball. And then in high school, I played basketball and baseball.

[08:15.62 - 08:26.34]

Did you go to school, your whole elementary and high school, there in Beaumont? Right there. Okay. It was a walking distance from the house. Did your parents live together?

[08:26.96 - 08:36.08]

They're deceased. They're deceased. But were they divorced? I mean, were you from a broken home? No, sir.

[08:36.30 - 08:43.18]

No, I was from two loving parents. I'm Hilton Lewis, and my daddy's name was Hilton. My mother's name was Estelle.

[08:44.80 - 09:09.70]

Even while I was a senior in high school, I have an uncle there in Beaumont. We coached the Little League team together. And I was involved in Little League and Pony League and Coat League for 28 years. I graduated in 57 from high school, and I went off to Lamar University for a year there in Beaumont for 58.. And I went to the Marine Corps probably the latter part of 58, 59..

[09:10.42 - 09:27.42]

Or I just went into that six-month program at that time, and you had to serve like four years in the Reserves. And when I got out of the Marine Corps, I went up to Panola Junior College on scholarship for a year, because I played ball up there, baseball.

[09:29.72 - 09:50.12]

And then Connie and I, no, we knew each other in high school. And then it was after I got out of the Marine Corps, before I went up to Panola Junior College, we started dating. And at that time, she was going to the Catholic school in Houston, St. Thomas University.

[09:53.46 - 10:02.96]

And I loved sports and everything, but I loved her more. So I only stayed up there for a year. Then she came back. She left St. Thomas.

[10:02.96 - 10:31.86]

She graduated from Lamar University. Then I came back to go back to Lamar, and that's when I went to work at the Beaumont Police Department on that night shift, because we got married in 1962, the Catholic wedding, the Italian wedding. Her daddy was from Sicily, Italy. We got married in August, and he died in September of cancer. We were going to get married a year later, but he had asked me if I'd go ahead and marry Connie.

[10:31.86 - 10:59.62]

And I said, sure, you know, and he had a big hole in the side of his neck at that time and had a patch over it. But anyway, he always had a broken accent, an Italian accent, and asked me if I'd please become Catholic. Well, you know, God's a God, and if you're Catholic, you're Jewish or whatever, a bad Presbyterian. And I was Presbyterian growing up.

[11:01.34 - 11:20.38]

So he said, well, go see Father Sacco. Boy, he was the greatest man I've ever known, Father Sacco. And I said, I want to become Catholic, because I need to get married inside the altar. He said, well, there's more to it than you're just telling me. He said, you've got to study, and you've got to learn his prayers, and you've got to go to confession, and you've got to do this and do that.

[11:20.44 - 11:36.22]

And I said, I told him, I said, Father, I said, I don't have time to learn all that. And I said, you know, I'm working. I'm going to school. Anyway, it got down to it when I was supposed to go see him and get everything done that day. And so I go in there, and I said, I'm going to be honest with you.

[11:36.32 - 11:49.60]

I said, I don't know half my prayer. Just wait until next week. And I said, we've got to get this thing done. He said, well, you don't worry about it. He gave me a flashlight, and he put me in a confession booth, and he said, now you read those prayers.

[11:49.76 - 12:07.62]

Here's a copy of the prayers, and you just tell me your sins that you've committed, and you're in there. So here I was in that confession booth, and then I just read, you know, and we talked a little bit. And that was it. That's how I became Catholic. We had close to 600 people that were waiting.

[12:08.12 - 12:13.48]

Father Sacco said, do you take this woman to be your lawful, loved wife? And I said, I do.

[12:15.42 - 12:17.16]

There's so many stories I can tell you.

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Speaker 5
[12:17.26 - 12:24.02]

After the break, Hilton discusses various altercations that he got into, including a stabbing.

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Speaker 3
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[12:56.54 - 13:21.72]

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[13:22.50 - 13:23.80]

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[13:23.80 - 13:29.14]

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Speaker 2
[13:35.54 - 13:51.50]

I was stabbed back in arrest. Seventy, seventy-one. Guy had some scissors and his family jumped on us. And then I tripped over a coffee table and he came up and he stabbed me. I got discharged and they called family together at St.

[13:51.58 - 14:02.38]

Elizabeth Hospital there in Beaumont. But I was all right. And we had Clorox running in our eyes. There was a black officer with me named John Bassett. I wish he was living.

[14:03.28 - 14:19.08]

He was really good. In fact, he was with me when I got stabbed. But this lady, I grabbed her and I yanked her by the hair and she had a wig on. She threw the Clorox on John and I, you know. But the other officers caught her going out the door.

[14:19.18 - 14:31.70]

But, man, we had Clorox all over us. I just bought a new sport coat and had it on. Man, I was so upset. We were laying there on the table there in the emergency room. They were washing our eyes out and everything.

[14:32.00 - 14:45.88]

And I knew that my coat, my tie, was raw, burnt. I could see, you know, I turned white. And I said, man, they burned everything. I said, John, I said, you've wanted to be white all your life. I said, I hope you're white over here.

[14:47.20 - 15:08.74]

I was always good to my people and I appreciated them. You know, his daddy owned a big arena out there on weekends where all the black people would go. And I'd go out there on weekends and I'd be right there with them at the rodeo and watch them fall off those horses and stuff. I got along with everybody. I had a lot of friends.

[15:09.60 - 15:36.04]

If you had to think back to one or two most heroic things that you did or that happened to you while you were on the police department there, there was a guy in a Volkswagen. He had a back of an 18-wheeler and he was trapped in there. And the back of that Volkswagen was on fire a little bit. I stayed there right with him until we could get him out. I met there.

[15:36.56 - 15:48.92]

Were you injured at all? No. The only time I was really ever injured was on that stabbing or whenever I was cut or with that Clorox. Other than that, I never was. Did you ever have a shootout with anyone?

[15:50.08 - 16:11.18]

The only time, some burglar was in this pharmacy there off of the Fannin Street and they shot at us and we shot at them, but nobody was hit. Other than that, no, I never did. That was the only time you ever fired your gun other than on the Rangers? Right, right. Then, in fact, I got a letter from one of my cousins.

[16:11.34 - 16:40.80]

Me and I hadn't seen him or talked to him in 20 to 25 years, but I was so involved in my business and trying to provide and do real good and everything. You know how you get away from your cousins, but they'd write me down once a week. And one of them said that I found this baby in his suitcase that was dead. In one of their letters, they mentioned that and how upset I'd gotten. I just stayed upset.

[16:43.04 - 17:05.56]

One time on Grant Street, it was a black family. I had a warrant, so I was looking for this man and I went there and I guess they had eight or nine, ten children there. They were all young and they were all just running around. It was cold and they were about half-naked and they had the heaters on. You know, remember the old open flame heaters?

[17:06.68 - 17:26.80]

And the house was just totally filthy. I mean, garbage just piled up in it and it was so bad. About that time, I went outside and the mother came. I started getting on her and she had a bag of chocolate milk. She said, let me finish this chocolate milk before I go in there, because some of the kids want it.

[17:27.52 - 17:42.90]

That didn't sit too well with me. So we called the welfare and the welfare came and got all those kids that day. That kind of upset me a little bit, just seeing those kids there by themselves. Have you always attended church regularly?

[17:45.06 - 18:15.10]

I'm not going to say in the last 15 years or so. No, I didn't go regularly. I probably went maybe once a month ago, but I went about maybe once a month. John Powell, who was chairman of the board of the Conn Appliance Stores, and I knew John back in the 70s. John and I, I'd go over there or he'd come play around the Conroe area someplace and we'd play golf almost every week.

[18:15.96 - 18:29.46]

John and I and Pat Foster, the basketball coach, we'd play and then we always had, we played at the Baltimore Country Club all the time over there. John was a member over there.

[18:31.66 - 18:56.98]

Whenever we'd go on vacations, or John and I might leave for three or four days just to go play golf, you know, we'd go to several different places. I had season's tickets to the Astros games that I gave away and I'd drive in from Houston to Conroe to pick up my boys and take them back to Houston in the same day to watch the Astros play, then drive back home again, you know.

[18:59.28 - 19:06.54]

And we attended all the University of Houston basketball games. When Paul Herrera,

[19:08.08 - 19:19.92]

Paul had been to my house, Sam Mack, playing with the Rockets. right now, he'd been to my house to eat. In fact, he stayed there a couple of different times.

[19:22.96 - 19:41.52]

I enjoyed shopping with Connie. I enjoyed eating out. I did all the cooking at the house. Connie did very little cooking except for the spaghetti and the meatballs, and that's from the Italian part of it there. But, you know, I worship my family.

[19:42.66 - 20:14.68]

Kevin's coming home from college, and, you know, I love cooking his breakfast for him and I'd bring it up on a tray, put it in his room for him. We were so close, we went on vacation, we would all go together. I guess the most, you know, I'm like you, though, I mean, let me tell you this. Connie and I are my boys, except for Chris, but we never had an argument. We never cussed each other out.

[20:14.96 - 20:31.84]

We never spent one night away from each other. And when Chris was growing up, I don't want this in the book, he's kind of rebellious. At the age of 15, we had moved to Conroe. He left some of his friends over in the Nederland area. That's where we were living at that time.

[20:32.36 - 20:50.14]

And he wrecked a couple of my cars without me knowing about it. And in fact, he wrecked one. one morning. I just went to Randall's. Connie was fixing some spaghetti and meatballs, and I bought two big loaves of French bread.

[20:50.24 - 21:09.32]

You know what happened. And I just got home and Chris came in and he told me that he had taken my car back into Section 2 of Rivershire. At that time, the houses weren't back there, that he had wrecked it. And I said, dude, what? I said, Chris, that's my second car.

[21:09.80 - 21:28.02]

Connie said something to him, and he said something smart to Connie. Well, that's the first time I felt like ringing him by the neck, but I didn't hit him. I took those loaf of bread and started hitting him in the head with it. And when I got through the first one, I grabbed the second one, and I had this much in my hand. When I got through, I had that crust, you know, the crust there.

[21:28.60 - 21:46.08]

I was so mad at myself for doing that. Chris looked at me, and Connie looked at me. And I just had a car that was eight months old that had been wrecked, and we just all three started dying, laughing. But no, we were a great family. I guess one of the, my mother, had breast cancer for about 16 years.

[21:46.94 - 22:09.16]

And daddy had died, and she had never been any closer. She was really bad shape. I really didn't have the money, but I managed it. But we, her and Connie, and myself and the two boys, we went over to Hawaii. We stayed in Princeville, Kauai, for about 10 days.

[22:11.50 - 22:23.18]

And probably to me, that was the most memorable trip we'd ever been on, because mother died about a year later after him, and that's all she talked about was that trip to Hawaii.

[22:25.14 - 22:55.54]

I think Chris was maybe 12, 13,, Kevin, maybe nine, somewhere in there, eight or nine. You moved to Conroe in the early 80s? I moved to Conroe in 1976, I believe, maybe 77.. I remember right after we moved to Conroe, my mother died. maybe, mother must have died close to 1979 or 80, because we'd been to Conroe for a couple of years.

[22:56.92 - 22:59.02]

So maybe that trip was around 78.

[22:59.66 - 23:32.64]

. I know it was about a year later that she died. Were you with the Beaumont Sheriff's Department up until the time you moved to— No, see, I had to leave the Sheriff's Department when I ran for sheriff in 1973, 74.. After the sheriff's race, the unions were behind me, and operating a local engineer's union there in Conroe, I mean Conroe, in the Beaumont area, Beaumont Port Arthur, came up, and the guy, his name was L.G. Moore, and he knew I needed work.

[23:33.08 - 24:00.98]

I applied to be an investigator with the state, but I hadn't got the job yet. And so he called me one day, and he told me that he had a job for me to be down at the union hall the next morning, and I said, for what? Because I've never done any type of work like that before in my life. And he said, he said, I've got a good job for you, just be quiet and come on down. Guys, you see them driving these backhoe, these ditch diggers, and these tall cranes and tractors.

[24:01.62 - 24:09.48]

I said, man, I'll kill somebody, you know, so I got in there the next morning. But what it was, I went out to the, there's a plant in Bridge City,

[24:11.36 - 24:52.76]

Gus States was building a plant there, and he gave me a union card, and I became an operating engineer, and my job there was to punch a button, to turn the welding machines on, and then turn them off at lunchtime, turn them back on after lunchtime, and turn them off before we went home. And I was an operating engineer, making about $14 an hour. But I felt so guilty, and I'll tell you why I felt guilty, was because there were so many guys in this union hall, you know how they show up every morning for work that wasn't working? And here I was, walked in there, and got a job like that.

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Speaker 3
[25:01.44 - 25:09.48]

For more information, including pictures, find us on social at The Ransom Podcast, or visit our website, ransompodcast.

[25:09.48 - 25:28.30]

com. Ransom is researched and written by Ben Kebrick, and hosted by me, Art Rascone. Production and sound design by Ben Kebrick, Aaron Mason, and Trent Sell, who also did the mixing. Co-created by Austin Miller. For Podcast One, executive producer Eli Dvorkin.

[25:28.30 - 25:43.12]

For Workhouse Media, executive producer Paul Anderson. And for KSL Podcasts, executive producer Cheryl Worsley. Ransom is produced by KSL Podcasts, in association with Podcast One and Workhouse Media.

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Speaker 5
[25:44.98 - 26:00.46]

You know, shows like this take a ton of time, and we're putting it all out there for free. So if you're enjoying this show, if you feel like you're getting anything out of it, please share it with a friend, drop it in a group text, and help spread the word, so that we can make more shows like this in the future. Thanks so much.

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