S3: E2 – Good Moms

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before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me... I'm going down in the cave. ...as I track down clues.

I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice?

Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

Back in 96, Atlanta was booming with excitement around hosting the Centennial Olympic Games. And then... A deranged zealot willing to kill for a cause lit a fuse that would change my life, and so many others, forever. Rippling out for generations.

Listen to Flashpoint on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This could be the craziest podcast pairing ever. The governor of California, Gavin Newsom, and Super Bowl champ, Marshawn Beastmode Lynch, are politicking. What does politicking even mean? There's bridge and gaps. With no politics.

Joined by their friend and agent, Doug Hendrickson, it's going to be a wild ride. We can change the world, podcast by podcast. Listen to Politicking with Gavin Newsom, Marshawn Lynch, and Doug Hendrickson on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search politicking and start listening.

She was embarrassed. It's her home. She's the wife, the mother. She had no knowledge of that device being there. But realistically, the first time we were in the home, we didn't know who placed it there.

I mean, Justin was acting like a suspect by not talking to us in the way he was acting.

I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal Season 3, Episode 2, Good Moms. A listener note. Some names have been changed to protect privacy.

Stacey Rutherford had met her soulmate, Dr. Justin Rutherford, in 2015.. They had been together for five years. Mikayla, Stacey's eldest, was off to college, and Tyler started high school. They were all enjoying the two youngest additions to the family.

Stacey's two older kids loved having young siblings. They called them the littles. Here's Tyler. My little siblings would always call me Bubby. It's fun.

It's good, like, on days when you're feeling sad. They don't know what's going on, but just a hug from them makes you feel so much better. Justin was providing for his family and involved with all four kids. He took Tyler to hockey practice. He helped Mikayla pay for school at Penn State.

And he was the dad who got on the floor with the kids. Stacey showed me some videos of Justin and the littles.

It's hard not to smile when you hear the kids squealing with delight. Tyler's friends enjoyed having Justin around, especially when it came to gaming. He was always down for a game of Call of Duty. If I had friends over and we needed another person to fill up the game, they'd have him come in. I mean, that was like his outside-of-work passion.

Stacey felt fulfilled as a doctor's wife and mother of four in Pennsylvania. But like any couple, Stacey and Justin had their issues. Physical intimacy was one of the areas where they were not on the same page. Even while dating, Stacey found Justin's lack of libido concerning. We never had a normal sex life.

The only time he ever seemed to really want to have sex was when we were trying to get pregnant. He always had problems performing. He just always explained it that, oh, med school is very hard. You know, I'm stressed a lot. And then it would turn into, well, you know, I've never been a very sexual person.

And I remember, you know, having conversations with, like my girlfriends, like, is it me? Is it my weight? And I ended up talking to one of the doctors I worked with. And I was like, I need to ask you a question. Like, is it common for residents to have to use Viagra or just not have a sex drive?

And they were like, oh, yeah, that's very common. So then I felt like a horrible person. Like, you know, he's just really stressed out. Here I am making a big deal out of this. And so I was willing to sacrifice that part of our relationship to have all of the good that we had.

And some of the good Justin offered, was his intrinsic approach with children. He was a natural. He spoke their language. All of the kids that we ever have been around, nieces, nephews, residents, kids, everybody gravitated towards him because he was like a big kid. For me, it warmed my heart because I was like, oh, I want a man.

that's good with kids. But sometimes Justin took it too far. And Stacey had to remind him that he was the father in the family. Like one time, you know, all the boys over at our house stay the night, they swam in the pool, and they all went and got Play-Doh, including my husband, and made Play-Doh penises.

Of course, for teenage boys, you know, you're going to be like, ah, that's, you know, they were laughing, I'm sure. But for an adult to get on that, I was like, Justin, you're 30-some years old. It was like there was never this understanding that he was the parent, they were the kids. But Stacey was never seeking perfection. I always looked at it as that's Justin.

He was an only child. He's immature. You know, my sister always used to call him Peter Pan. He just wanted to be a boy forever.

The Rutherford house was a hub for guests, pool parties, and friends. There were sleepovers, too. And with kids going over to swim, a lot of them changed and showered at the house. It was a completely normal happening. But one afternoon, Tyler had a couple of friends over who left in a hurry.

I had my friends over, and we were kind of just having a pool day. Everything was going fine. We even planned to later on go to like a trampoline park of some sort. They had gone upstairs to change out of their swim trunks into their normal clothes. And then out of nowhere, they had said their aunt texted them, or uncle someone around those lines, and they needed to leave.

Didn't really give much information as to why, but they made it seem as if it was something very urgent. And within 20 minutes, they were out the door, and they were gone. I found it odd, but I just kind of assumed it was some family emergency. Someone had gotten hurt, something like that. Tyler didn't really know what happened, but didn't dwell on it either.

Later on that night, another strange incident occurred. They had an unexpected visit from social services. There was a tip sent to DCFS that he had asked two of Tyler's friends to do inappropriate things in the shower together.

DCFS is the Division of Children and Family Services. It's a government agency that investigates the mistreatment and abuse of children. And I'm like, that's not true. I was here all day. Like, he never was alone with anybody.

And they said, OK, well, we're investigating this, and because Tyler is not Justin's biological child, he had to leave the house.

Stacey had no idea what they were talking about, but it didn't matter. It was upsetting. Imagine social services knocking on your door, telling you that your husband is suspected of inappropriate, possibly criminal, behavior. The Division of Children and Family Services was investigating. Tyler would stay just down the street with a close friend until it was over.

The social worker came back to the house and said, we've interviewed Tyler. He loves his stepdad. He's happy here. He's seeing faith. We think he's fine to come home.

You know, she said sometimes in situations like this, where there is a doctor and there's money involved, it could have been somebody who thought, you know, oh, let's, you know, make up something and see if they'll pay us off. Justin agreed, telling Stacey it had to be a money grab. So Stacey was relieved. when social services told them they were dropping the case. We were just, like, ecstatic.

Like, oh my gosh, our life can go back to normal. And for a little while, they resumed their everyday routine.

But then Stacey saw something that made her realize they couldn't go back to normal. I'm downstairs with the little ones, and Justin had been gone for a little while. And I'm like, where is he at? I go upstairs to our bedroom. And when I tell you that it was like a movie, I mean, it was like a movie.

He was encrypting his computer. Like the stuff coming down the screen. I imagine it looked like the scene from The Matrix, when it starts raining down code. And I stood there and he turned around and he said, oh, great. Great.

And I said, what are you doing? And he said, listen, you know, if we've got somebody coming after us, this and that, I'm encrypting my computer, Stacey, and I know what you think. You know, he kept saying, I know what you think. And I'm like, you're damn right, I know what I think. From that moment on, I knew something was wrong.

Stacey felt something in her gut, and it changed the way she viewed her husband from that day on.

We had family time every night before bed. You know, we still had those after all that, but it wasn't the normal happy family night. It was. mom sits on the couch on her phone, ignores everyone and everything, and Justin tries to play it cool and act normal, but you can still tell something's not right. She wouldn't sit next to him.

She wouldn't touch him. Kisses were forced. Nothing was like the usual. Stacey performed the role of wife and mother, acting out the parts well enough to keep her household from collapsing. But in her head, she was preparing for the worst case scenarios.

With my first divorce, I felt helpless because I wasn't working. I had just quit my job, and he was letting me open up a home daycare. And within weeks of that, everything imploded. So she made sure she could always work and make a living. It's the reason she kept her certified nursing assistant credentials up to date.

So I think with Justin, I just was like, I'm good. Like, I'll stay working. As much as she loved Justin and her life in Pennsylvania, she was not naive.

She wouldn't make the same mistake again.

I don't want to say it was like a divine thing, but I always just had this feeling. At any moment, the bottom can fall out, Stacey, and you need to be prepared. And sure enough, a few weeks later, the other shoe finally dropped when she was met by a detective at her front door. I get home, and I pull in, and there's all these vans and SUVs just flooding my driveway. And I walk up to the house, and an armed officer was like, you know, ma'am, calm down.

Come downstairs with me. And laid out on our couch was a device torn apart, and then photos of my kids all naked in the shower.

We cloned his voice using AI. In 2001,. police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode.

In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV.

Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is, you gonna sniper me out of some tree? But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere.

For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues.

They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm gonna call the police. and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house. The Hunt. Family annihilation. Today.

And a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

It started with a backpack at the 1996 Centennial Olympic Games. A backpack that contained a bomb. While the authorities focused on the wrong suspect, a serial bomber planned his next attacks. Two abortion clinics. And a lesbian bar.

But this isn't his story. It's a human story. One that I've become entangled with. I saw, as soon as I turned the corner, basically someone bleeding out. The victims of these brutal attacks were left to pick up the pieces.

Forced to explore the gray areas between right and wrong. Life and death. Their once ordinary lives, and mine, changed forever. It kind of gave me a feeling of pending doom. And all the while, our country found itself facing down a long and ugly reckoning with a growing threat.

Far-right, homegrown, religious terrorism. Listen to Flashpoint on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This could be the craziest podcast pairing ever. The Governor of California, Gavin Newsom, and Super Bowl champ, Marshawn Beast Mode Lynch, are politicking. What does politicking even mean?

There's bridge and gaps.

Starred by their friend and agent, Doug Hendrickson, it's going to be a wild ride. We can change the world, podcast by podcast.

Listen to Politicking with Gavin Newsom, Marshawn Lynch, and Doug Hendrickson on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Politicking, and start listening.

Stacey had suspicions about her husband, but was not expecting a police raid. Now, she was standing in her home watching a scene right out of the crime shows she watched on television.

Amity Township Police Department received information that juveniles in a home of Justin Rutherford saw something in a bathroom that they didn't know what it was. One of the juveniles took a picture of it and sent it to his mother. The mother researched it and found that it was a camera. Juveniles removed it with a SIM card and took it home. The Rutherford family lived in Amity Township.

Sergeant Fick explained how it got to the county.

Amity asked us if we would take the case, because we have more knowledge and experience in this field. The good news is the evidence was secured. We wanted to have our forensic services unit withdraw the information on the SIM card and see exactly what was recorded on that device. The police had been investigating the secret camera since social services first came into their home three weeks prior. Investigators found images of several children and a handful of adults using the bathroom and showering.

A lot of the boys would go in and, of course, when they stand to urinate, you could capture that. His stepdaughter, I believe her boyfriend, those people were captured. But realistically, we didn't know who placed it there. It was concerning enough to warrant further investigation. We executed a search warrant at the house and at that time we were in there to take every electronic device.

Rutherford was there. When we went to take his cell phone, he actually tried to delete something from it quick. We had to secure him and take the phone from him. He didn't want to talk to us. He said he was going to have a lawyer, so of course we couldn't question him any further.

I mean, Justin was acting like a suspect.

Okay, so there was a camera in the bathroom. Justin was being uncooperative. One picture was Justin's hand and they asked me if I could identify his wedding ring. And I said, yes, that's his wedding ring. And they told me, well, we're here because we have reason to believe that he placed the camera in the bathroom to record your son and his friend, Andre.

And just then, Tyler came home from work. I was working landscaping at the time and walking down to the house and I noticed there's all sorts of cars. And I'm thinking I'm about to walk into one of our family parties. It's about to be a fun night. I open the door and there's like six police standing there in front of me.

I was all covered in grass, clippings and mud. I was stinky. I was dirty. I was ready to go take a shower. And I asked them, I kind of see what's going on.

Can I just go take a shower? And then he was like, no. So they had sent me downstairs and they broke the news that there was cameras in the house and that most of the allegations are most likely true. While Stacey felt something was off, she wasn't expecting the police to show up with a search warrant. And she certainly wasn't expecting what they were showing her.

I remember crying and just I kept saying, oh my God, like what kind of mother doesn't know this? One of the police officers grabbed a hold of me and just held me while I cried. He kept saying, good mom, good mom, Stacey. He said, the whole time we investigated you, we were in every area of your life. Your emails, your Facebooks, your everything.

The whole time he said, the one thing we kept saying over and over was this woman has no idea what's about to happen in her life.

Tyler was trying to process the whole scene. His mother crying downstairs, his stepfather stonewalling upstairs.

I finally got to go take my shower as they were getting ready to leave. I'm usually a five-minute, ten-minute shower kind of guy. I get my job done, I leave, but that shower was different. I just stood in there and pretty much cried the whole time, head against the wall, eyes closed, water falling down my head.

Tyler knew what was at stake, and he knew they would not be staying in this house or in this life. We had everything we ever dreamed of growing up. We had an in-ground pool, and to me, that was the craziest thing. Like, I thought billionaires had in-ground pools. It had a slide, like I thought we had a water park in the backyard.

And he took us on our first cruise, and I mean, I had a nice, like, $1,500 gaming PC. Pretty much anything a kid could want. After the raid happened, they told me social services will be contacting you. Detectives took the family's electronic devices and left. This was a mission to find and collect evidence, not to arrest Justin.

At that point, he was standing in the kitchen, and he started to talk to me, and I said, Just shut the fuck up. I don't want to hear another word out of your mouth. I need you to get your shit, and I need you to get out of my house. And he was like, You're going to ruin our marriage over this? Are you serious, Stacey?

I said, no, you ruined our marriage. I said, they showed me everything down there, Justin. He was like, I didn't do this. You know, that's all lies. Justin was maintaining his innocence.

He started naming all of the kids who might have been the culprit. But the detective had wisely shown Stacey the photo of Justin's hand, presumably testing the camera.

And I was like, mm-mm, you gotta go. I said, it's either you or me and these kids. He's like, well, I'm not going to make you and the kids leave the house tonight. So then he ended up going and staying with one of his co-residents, and just told her that we were going through a divorce, and that he just needed a place to crash. Stacey and the kids needed family, and friends who were like family.

But those folks were back home in Virginia. Once this story about Justin got back to his employer, this house. they loved, this job he had worked so hard, for, it would all be over. The day after the raid, we were putting the house up for sale.

His mentality was, I'll finish out my contract here, you know, and then we'll slowly work on, like, rebuilding our relationship. I mean, at the time, I was trying to play the part, like, oh, yeah, maybe. But I was just like, oh, yeah, buddy, that's not happening. Justin was adamant that he was innocent. But Stacey no longer cared.

She just wanted to keep her kids safe. I called my sister, and I said, this is what's going down. I think it's going to be bad. She was like, oh, my God, you gotta get the babies out of that house. And I said, I told him he had to leave.

But I'm moving home. And she was like, shit, Stacey, school starts next week. Heather was concerned about Tyler. He was in high school, and this move would mean a new school for him. That was hard enough.

She was like, we gotta get him here to get him enrolled in school. He can't get behind. I tell my husband what's going on, and my husband says to me, we're going to get Tyler. And my husband is one of those people that not a lot of people argue with. He's not taking no for an answer.

Tyler loved his Aunt, Heather. And knew on the day of the raid that his life was going to change. But he never could have predicted it would happen so fast.

I'd gotten a text from my mom. Hey, when you get home tonight, we're going to pack up all your stuff. You're going to live with your Aunt Heather. Like, bam. It's really getting real.

Woke up that next morning. My friend had come over because I had told him I was leaving. This was the same friend I'd stayed at after social services came. So he kind of knew what was going on. We hugged.

Which was not like us, you know. Teenage boys don't really do that. And like, he actually shed some tears. I did, too. It was kind of like heartfelt, but sad.

at the same time. He was my best friend. I didn't have much to leave him, but I was like, take this Xbox. It'll be like a good remember-me-by. And then I was off to my aunt's to live for the next year and a half or so.

This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley.

There was sleet and hail and snow coming down.

Right on the reservation boundary. All I could think of is him going to sniper me out of some tree. But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. They won't tell you anything.

I'm going down in the cave. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

Do you recognize my voice? Join An Exploding House, The Hunt, Family Annihilation, Today, and A Disappearing Act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

It started with a backpack at the 1996 Centennial Olympic Games. A backpack that contained a bomb. While the authorities focused on the wrong suspect, a serial bomber planned his next attacks. Two abortion clinics. And a lesbian bar.

But this isn't his story. It's a human story. One that I've become entangled with. I saw, as soon as I turned the corner, basically someone bleeding out. The victims of these brutal attacks were left to pick up the pieces.

Forced to explore the gray areas between right and wrong. Life and death. Their once ordinary lives, and mine, changed forever. It kind of gave me a feeling of pending doom. And all the while, our country found itself facing down a long and ugly reckoning with a growing threat.

Far-right, homegrown, religious terrorism. Listen to Flashpoint on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This could be the craziest podcast pairing ever. The governor of California, Gavin Newsom, and Super Bowl champ, Marshawn Beastmode Lynch, are politickin'. What does politickin' even mean?

There's bridge and gaps. With no politics. Joined by their friend and agent, Doug Hendrickson, it's going to be a wild ride. We can change the world, podcast by podcast.

Listen to Politickin' with Gavin Newsom, Marshawn Lynch, and Doug Hendrickson on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Politickin', and start listening.

We've all seen those stories. When a person with means suddenly falls and is about to lose everything. Many times, they don't just bow out. They take people with them. Usually, it's those closest.

Justin had lost his family, had not seen his biological children, and it was just a matter of time before he'd lose his ability to practice medicine. What then? Stacy's mind went to? worst-case scenarios.

As heartbreaking as it was, Stacy moved quickly and put the house on the market. I don't know if you remember the housing market in 2021.. I do. It didn't take long for prospective buyers to start looking at Stacy's home.

Her loss was their gain. Even in that moment, she showed grace. She loved that house. She loved the life she thought she was living.

Mikayla had been living away at college. Stacy knew that it would only be a matter of time before she'd hear what happened. Stacy wanted to be the one to tell her, but she didn't want to break this type of news over the phone. So she invited Mikayla and her boyfriend Tommy for the weekend. When Mikayla arrived at the house, she noticed something was off right away.

That's when her much younger sister spilled the beans.

And mom, who hasn't said anything, explained everything, you know, that they raided the house, they took all electronics. Mikayla thought there had to be some kind of mistake. She just couldn't wrap her head around it. Not Justin.

Immediately, I was kind of like, are we sure? You know, people put nanny cams all the time. Was it an accident? Was it supposed to be like downstairs to maybe make sure D, who lived with us, was taking care of the kids? And somebody moved it?

The stress of everything that was going on seemed to be getting to Justin. One of his patients noticed a total transformation in his bedside manner. My name is Christina Calvarese. I have to go to the doctor for regular checkups. So I went and I visited him.

I liked him a lot. He was very talkative, very interested. To me, he was a great doctor. Until he became preoccupied with his own problems. I never had an issue with him until the medication that he put me on, it crippled me.

I could not walk.

It was actually destroying my muscles. And the side effects of that medication were exactly the side effects that I was having. When I called his office and asked that he call me back and talk to me directly, he was very abrupt.

It was not the same Dr. Rutherford that I knew. Justin kept working. He still hadn't been charged with a crime. So word of the raid was spreading through their circle of friends and community.

About a week or so later, I get a Snapchat message from one of Tyler's friends. It was a boy she knew well. He was at the house all the time when I lived there. It was like another little brother to me.

We've had difficult conversations in the past about anxiety and depression. He disclosed to me that Justin had sexually abused him.

I pulled over on the side of the road. I'm like bawling my eyes out. I did tell him, like, I'm so sorry that happened to you. But as somebody who works in healthcare, I have to mandate report or I could lose my job. Mikayla was working at an outpatient psychiatry department and she took her mandate seriously.

She explained that the police would probably contact his parents and that she would be there for him. But inside, Mikayla was heartbroken. Justin was her dad. It was hard. You know, when you love somebody so much, there's that little part that's like, what the heck is going on?

There's no way that he could have done this. And then the bigger part of me is like, it doesn't matter. Like, this, kid just told you that he was abused. You take that seriously. It's real.

Mikayla didn't go to work that day. Instead, she turned around and drove herself straight to the police precinct to report the text.

On my way there, I had called my mom. I asked her who the detectives were. And I think she knew something was wrong. So I'm like, OK, I wasn't going to tell you. You're at work.

I'm trying to drive. I'm trying to still process it. But this is what happened. Mikayla met with the detective at the police station to share the text. It was evidence.

I gave them my phone, and they made copies or screenshots. These were serious allegations, and now it was in the detectives' hands. She was a wreck and concerned for the victim. But there wasn't much more for Mikayla to do. Or at least she thought.

Detectives eventually pivoted and asked her for help with the hidden camera case they were building against Justin.

And then they were like, we're going to show you a bunch of pictures. We need you to identify the individuals in the pictures. They were screen grabs. the forensic team had pulled from the hidden camera. And then they whip out this huge binder, and they just start flipping through it.

And it's like my brother's friends, family members, all these people sitting on the toilet, brushing their teeth, using the shower. It was literally anything you can think of. No one ever noticed the camera, because it was disguised as an everyday household item. It was like a cube, and it charged your phone. So it worked just like a phone block, but it had a camera inside of it.

Mikayla was still processing the abuse allegations. And this new responsibility, well, it was awkward and just plain awful, sitting there identifying people. Hundreds of photos laid out in binders.

Detectives did their best to make her comfortable. But seeing your friends and family getting in and out of the shower, they're naked. Can you imagine? It couldn't cover them up, at least. And when she thought it couldn't get any worse.

It whipped out another binder, and it was me. So I dye my hair a lot. And I had to identify myself in every different hairstyle, every different hair color. And then they let me know that some of these pictures were actually like they had clipped it from a video. And the one picture was actually Tommy and I in the bathroom together doing like sexual acts.

I said, how many people have seen this video? And he told me all of the forensic team, all of the detectives on the case. And I was like, as white as a ghost. I wanted to throw up. And who could blame her?

Detectives went to interview the boy who said he was abused by Justin. Here's Sergeant Fick again. I personally did a forensic interview and interviewed him. And he disclosed being sexually abused by Justin.

Still, there were no charges. Stacey wanted to get away from the house. She reached a breaking point. I took the kids immediately and left the house with nothing. And went to Michaela's, because her building was secure.

You had to have a key to get in the front. You had to have a key to get on the elevator. And that key had to match the floor that you lived on too. Stacey shared the terrible development with her sister, Heather. And Heather told Tyler.

At least her son was safe with Heather in Virginia. For Stacey, Heather, and Michaela, there was a question that permeated all of their thoughts. If Justin sexually assaulted Tyler's friend, was it possible that he preyed on Tyler as well?

Michaela couldn't stop thinking about that text. And her younger brother. Honestly, as soon as I opened the message from him, I could feel it in my gut that he wasn't the only one.

Stacey checked in with Tyler often. She asked him multiple times if he was okay. She asked him after social services came. She asked him again after the raid and thought it was agonizing to raise it with him again. She even asked her son after the sexual assault victim came forward.

He always reassured her.

But there was so much she didn't know. So much that happened right in front of her. But she remembered what social services told her. We've interviewed Tyler. He loves his stepdad.

He's happy here. He's safe. Everything was different. now. Nobody had been safe.

Heather thought she had the best chance of approaching Tyler. He was staying in her house. Heather was very proactive about something happened to Tyler. If he did it to another boy, I just know it. So she started immediately asking questions.

Her sister sought advice from a friend who was a social worker. Here's Heather. She's like, you can't push him. You can't pull it out of him. You just need to continue to let him know that you're there.

If he wants to chat, you know you're there. They would talk about it and then she'd let it go. While Stacey was agonizing over what may have happened to Tyler, she noticed that Justin was making some unusual financial transactions. She reached out to Detective Weaver, who she had met the night of the raid. I remember texting Weaver and them saying, he's going to run.

I feel it. He's drawing out money. Oh, we got eyes on him. We're good. We're good.

Detectives were not in a hurry to arrest Justin. They were more interested in building a strong case than a fast one. Remember, Stacey had caught him encrypting his computer. So the only evidence they had in their case against Justin at this point was the SIM card from the camera in the bathroom. With the victim coming forward, you may be thinking, there had to be an arrest warrant soon.

Well, not necessarily. Detectives were trying to corroborate the victim's story. Law enforcement wouldn't just make an arrest without sufficient evidence. They would need more.

When it was just the camera charges, Detective Weaver had said to me this was a misdemeanor act and that with him having a clear history and no arrests or any violence or anything like that, that they would look at that and they would look at kind of who he was in society and that more than likely he would just get probation out of it.

And it was gross to me to think that you could walk away with a misdemeanor and just have probation for looking at naked children. Maybe that was Justin's purpose for hiding the camera in the bathroom. But the SIM card contained images of children and adults. A defense attorney could argue that it wasn't meant for just kids. It was no slam dunk for a prosecutor.

It was scary because I thought, he's going to get a misdemeanor. I mean, people get misdemeanors for stupid stuff and still are able to see their kids. My thought was, he's still going to have access to our children. I knew I was leaving. I knew I was divorcing him.

There was no question. But to think that I would have had to possibly drive my children to his home and drop them off was just nauseating to me. Heather was on the receiving end of Stacey's anguish. My sister had just called me and she's crying and she's like, this is crazy, how are they going to let him go? And I'm like, I know, God's got this, we're going to figure this out.

I do not believe in my heart of hearts that this man is going to walk free. And Tyler's listening to this. And I got off the phone and he was helping me fold laundry. And I said, man, buddy, I said, I don't know, we got to do some serious praying. He's like, why, what's up?

I said, they're talking about only charging Justin with the cameras. He goes, well, what does that mean? And I said, well, that probably means your little brother will have visitation with his father in due time.

And he just looked at me with, look, I will never forget you. And his eyes welled up with tears.

And Tyler says, he'll never see the outside of a prison when I tell them what I know.

He had heard enough. The thought of Justin being alone with his little brother and the idea that he could have visitation, that was the tipping point. Tyler was ready to talk.

On the next episode of Betrayal. You know, they were at work making the money, doing their jobs. And I was doing my job, keeping my mouth shut, to keep the family together. And Justin makes a run for it. I go to the house and his side of the closet is gone.

All of his stuff was gone. I was like, oh shit, he's on the run.

And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison.

Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Carrie Hartman. Also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Kristen Melchiorri and Grace Bollinger. Our iHeart team is Allie Perry and Jessica Kreincheck.

Special thanks to Stacey Rutherford, Tyler, and the rest of Stacey and Tyler's friends and family. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Salvecchio. Editing support from Nico Arruca. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by Mybe Music.

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