"Lisa Kudrow"

Oh, man, I always forget how chilly it gets when I do a cold open, but, man, I probably should have worn a hat. Even gloves would have been nice, but anyway, before I freeze my beans off, welcome to Smart Less.

Smart.

Less.

Smart.

Less.

Smart.

Less.

You guys, I mean, don't make me cry. It's been a month and a half. I know.

It's pretty wild.

I'm so happy to see you in your house.

I know.

I feel really good, and I know that we're going to see you later.

Later today.

Which is, later today.

I'm going to put my mouth on both of you right away. Okay? Hang on. Hang on. One lip for each.

That's another Sunday.

Please stop. Please stop. Please stop now. I urge you.

Wait a minute, Jason. I know you told us a little bit about your character, but is your character supposed to be clean at all? Yeah, tell us.

Hang on. Tell us about your character.

This is the start of a typical interview.

Tell us about your character. What is that? No, because like-.

As a storyteller. As a storyteller. Sorry, Sean. You're going to go, but...

No. Well, anyway, I don't really care. I mean, I care, but I mean, like, is he supposed to bathe?

No, and that's why I look like, you know, I mean, there's long hair and long beard, and it's not... Yeah.

Are you anxious to cut it all off, or are you like-?

Yeah, and we haven't even gone into the teeth of summer yet. I'll be going through summer in New York City with this long hair and like-.

How's that beard going to feel on 16 hour days in the summer in New York? Oh, God.

It's going to... However bad it feels, it's going to smell even worse. Yeah.

Have you been trimming it now, because you've got it at a length that you like?

No. Well, we had to trim it once just for continuity, so it doesn't get too... But you know, I get, you know, people maybe be like, should we worry? Is there a hotline we can call into?

Well, Amanda- This is the hotline. Amanda's been to us a bunch of times, and even last... I mean, to anybody who'll listen, and then last weekend at dinner, she was chewing somebody's ear off about... And then he just looks like somebody new and different. I heard her...

She was sitting next to Scotty.

No. I know. Well, it's just about different, right? Right. I mean, I look like somebody other than the person who's been sharing a bed with her for 25 years.

I actually think it's handsome.

It is handsome.

Thank you. Well-.

I mean, maybe trimmed with a little trim of the beard, but the hair is-.

Yeah. You know who doesn't dig it? Maple. My 12-year-old. Yeah.

What about the sleeves? Does Marty roll his sleeves up ever? Because Michael Bluth rolled his sleeves up.

Well, he was always trying to get down to business, and, you know... You know, Will, I think about that every time, literally, that I turn up my sleeves. I hear you go, well, let's get down to business.

But you're feeling good, though. You're happy to be home.

I'm feeling good. I'm very happy to be home. I cannot wait to see you guys tonight. I can't wait. Likewise.

People don't realize we sometimes bank episodes, and we had to do that because you were directing. Yeah. So we were two months ahead.

Right.

And how are you feeling at the end of your directing? Did it go? Did everything kind of pretty much go where you wanted to?

It went even better than I'd hoped. And that was because everybody came together. so, so well, the crew and the cast.

Yes. Amanda said it was going really great. Yeah.

I can't wait for people to see it. Really, really proud of it.

And it's called Black Rabbit.

It's called Black Rabbit. We're super excited. But for some odd reason, Netflix, God bless them, they're not dissimilar from other companies. in that, right around, when Star Wars started to get rekindled and Marvel started to go, and people really tried to steal scripts online and get a jump on things and release spoilers and stuff, all studios went to a pseudonym for projects, regardless of their budget scale. This ain't Star Wars.

Sean, I'm out.

I was directed at you.

So we had to come up with a pseudonym per Netflix. And I was so like, oh my God, this is not a Marvel thing. We don't need a pseudonym. And I was so like over it when I got the email and my dog, Gary, was just laying on my lap. And so I said, let's call it Gary the dog.

Well, now you have to change the name.

No, it's-.

Like it's a state secret.

You know, Ted, I'm sorry. He's going to call me and yell at me perhaps, but it's just, yeah, I can't wait for my actual dog to show up on set and everyone will see.

You know what that reminds me of? Sorry. It just made me think. Years ago, more than 15 years ago, we were in the... We had finished shooting.

Yeah.

Me and Farrell and Amy and everyone. I love that movie. Yeah, yeah. Fun movie. Really fun.

Directed by the great Will Speck and Josh Gordon.

Our friends, Will and Josh, directed him. So I remember I was in a cab going downtown, downtown in New York, on Broadway, just above Canal Street. And I was talking to Will on my cell phone. I guess it was probably pre, just pre smartphone, talking to Will. And as I was talking to him, this woman comes up to the window of the cab and she's holding a bootleg copy.

And a $6 Louis Vuitton bag. You were right there on Canal, right?

Remember, piracy was like so super bad, like the physical piracy.

Yeah. I do. You know, I went to Allie Wentworth and George Stephanopoulos' house for dinner and I didn't have anything last minute to bring, as you do when you go to somebody's house for dinner. So I stopped on the street and I bought, Jason, one of those $6 Prada bags for Allie as like instead of like a bottle of wine or something.

It's so brilliant.

That's going to be my thing now. I'm just going to buy like 20 of them, bank, you know, have them in my closet. And if I don't have anything, I'm just going to bring people like pink Prada bags. that just cost $6..

By the way, now you got customs on your ass. They're like.

Yeah.

That's a great idea.

Guys, let's get to our guest. She's been so kindly waiting. She's a true Los Angeles native, but, counterintuitively, showbiz wasn't her, always her career path. She graduated from Vassar with a degree in psychobiology, a beautiful campus, and then went to work for her dad, a headache specialist. But one thing led to another, as it so often does in Tinseltown, and she ended up at the Groundlings bit by the comedy bug.

Yeah, Lisa.

Oh, with a gorgeous filter on.

As soon as you said married to a Frenchman, I knew it was Lisa.

Michelle Stone. Michelle.

Michelle.

Michelle Stone.

But I'm not fluent in French.

Oh, you aren't? No.

What about French-Canadian?

Yes.

Yeah.

But you must speak a little bit of it, because your husband.

Yeah, I do. I speak a little of it, because my husband.

So is that on purpose?

You didn't want to learn it. Look, you just repeated everything. I know.

That's so good. Your mirror work is phenomenal, by the way.

Did you not learn the whole language so that you could tune him out when he's really going at you with some stuff?

No. He just, he speaks so fast. I couldn't. And I did take it in high school. I took four years.

Me too. And you know Will speaks it fluently.

Well, you know, I've spoken French with Michelle many times, but he ends up, you're right, he doesn't, he won't slow it down for you. So if you don't keep up, then he'll just flip to English, because he's like, I'm not going to waste my time. Right.

I know. Very Parisian.

Lisa, why do you look so pretty today? Not that you don't always do, but like-.

Do you have a callback today?

Yes. I thought this was it. I thought this was an audition. And so I got all dolled up.

Because you know we're not like filming this. No, but you look great.

Your lighting is good. Your lighting is good. And I love that you have enough self-respect to like blur out your background, because you don't, like Sean, wants us all to look at his Canon printer. Yeah.

But you're like- And his little baby, Yoda, that's hard to get.

But you're like, I'm going to be front and center. You look great. Your lighting looks great. You look phenomenal.

No, but because it's mayhem here.

Is it?

It looks like it could be a nice looking bookshelf back there. Maybe better than Sean's.

Yeah, it is. I'm actually trying to unblur it, so you can see.

Oh, there it is. Oh, there it is.

There it is.

Well, what is that? It's a little blurry.

But you know what? That looks really nice, like that.

It's a shallow depth of field.

Because at least you can kind of see this. Okay.

Okay. So go ahead.

I was going to just get right to, can you help my daughter get into Vassar? You know, because we toured that campus and-.

Is she interested, Jason?

I don't know if she is, but it looks like Hogwarts. I mean, it's so beautiful there.

It's really beautiful. A lot of people end up at Vassar just from the tour.

Right? Yeah.

Yeah. Really? And then they're disappointed they didn't go to Yale.

It's so beautiful.

Was college a good experience for you? I loved it. Yeah?

With all my heart.

I didn't doubt that.

Now, were you an academic or were you just sort of doing your schoolwork so that you could party?

No, she said yeah.

No, I wanted to say yeah to the party.

You kept talking. You didn't listen. You, just, she answered.

I like to drive people into the answer I want.

Right.

Well- You've forgotten. It's been a while. Yeah.

I was a biology major. So there was no choice- Really? But to be academic, because that's a big commitment.

So what was the impetus for that? So you come out of high school, you're kicking ass in science and math and you're like, yeah, I'm going to-.

Yeah. I thought I'll be pre-med. My dad's a doctor. Right. My brother's starting medical school.

And was that interesting to you?

Well, biology was really interesting to me. Yeah. I loved it. Biology. I mean, it's such a huge-.

But what kind of doctor do you think you would have been?

I don't know. I wasn't set on that, but halfway through I went, oh no, there's no way. I'm going to be a practicing physician. There's no way.

Right. Because? Because?

Because I realized I wasn't as interested in that as I was in, I liked evolutionary biology. So I was just going to continue and do.

Well, Will's big on creation biology. Yeah, sure.

But let me-.

Remember the Paul Abdul song, Vibology?

No. No, we don't. No.

Nobody does.

I used to pretend I was going to vibology classes.

I mean, no offense to Urban, but he does. But wait, so Lisa, so your dad was a, Sean, did you say that? Did he say it right? Your dad was specialized in headaches?

Yeah. Yeah.

So what's that? Talk to us a little bit about that.

Yeah.

I work in- Because I got two headaches. I got two headaches on the line with me every day.

Okay. How do you get rid of them?

Maybe you can help me get rid of them.

It's called recasting.

Okay.

Well, he got a lot of headaches and he was, you know, like a family practice or internist, and then decided he would switch to just treating, researching, headache.

Wow.

So was it migraines or just the simple, the common headache?

At the time, from what I remember, because I worked for him from college till friends, basically.

Like in the summers or full time?

No, full time. After college.

Wow, really?

That was my day job, which was really lucky. Where was that? In Encino.

Okay. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, go on.

And at the time, there's nine different headache types. at that time. Let's have them. So I don't know. Well, I don't know.

Well, we got migraine. Are there different subsets of migraines?

Of migraine? Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Hemiplegic, ophthalmic, classical.

And do you know how to treat, like, can you, like you and I know your son, and like the second, you feel something going on, you must know all about them to know what to do with them, right? No.

All right, great. I mean, a little, but, you know, there's a lot of new medications and things. My brother's a headache specialist. He's a neurologist who took over when my dad retired.

Be honest. Is he in bed with the folks over at Bayer?

In bed with.

But I am, while we're pulled over here for a second, I am, I mean, is a headache, I mean, it's mostly just like a blood flow problem, correct? Or no?

I think, well, I don't, yeah, I'm not entirely sure, but I mean, just the key.

So you were just, you were answering the phone? Is that what you were doing there?

You just don't want to have Tylenol?

I mean, this sounds like a pretty shady operation.

I kind of knew a lot about cluster headache. That was this subset of headaches. That's when you're around too many people? It's not a migraine. What?

Is that when you're around too many people? No. And is the classical headache from listening to-.

No, but that's a good guess.

Yeah. Thank you.

No, it's not.

You know, I'm just about making people feel good. Yeah.

That's what I'm about. And, by the way, which leads me to, you told me before, we were hanging out at another friend's house.

Huh?

And you told me, I was asking about your family growing up and you were like, I was going the house. Yeah. And I was like, what? As a kid? Yeah.

Oh, well, I just, I'm the youngest in the family. So that's always like the least competent person in the house.

Yeah.

You get away with a lot.

How many, how many siblings?

I have two.

Okay.

And they're older and really funny. And my dad is really funny and he's 91 and he still is. And so, yeah, I just would repeat what they said, bring it back to school and sometimes get in trouble because it's like six and eight years older than what was appropriate for kindergarten or first grade. But junior high, I did play production where we wrote sketches and performed them. And that was huge.

Was Saturday Night Live, consequently like one of your favorite shows?

Yeah, I did. I loved it. I did love it.

Yeah. Same. I used to watch it.

Was that a gold?

Oh, no way. You too, Sean? No way. What a weird coincidence. Sorry, Lisa.

Here's what's special about me. I loved Saturday Night Live.

I loved the Beatles. I loved it too. They were really good. What about Oscar?

Oxygen.

Yeah, I breathe oxygen.

So was it, Groundlings? Did you want to go there as maybe a path to potentially become a cast member?

No. Groundlings, that was after college and that really wasn't about, I wasn't, my goal was not Saturday Night Live, but my goal was to avoid a dramatic acting class at all costs.

Right. Right. Right. Right.

Because, from what I understood, they seemed like cults and it was just people taking everything way too seriously.

Yeah. I was in one once and it was like that. Yeah. It was like, people used it as an excuse to not move on in life.

Or therapy. Or therapy.

Ooh.

Whereas the world beaters in the comedy class-.

Yeah.

Well, that was the huge revelation was, ooh, the comedy folk are way off. There's something really wrong.

Well, also, it's a lot of fun.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, yeah. Oh, you get to laugh and have fun all the time. See? Yeah. That's a little secret.

Instead of trying to make people cry.

I know, but let me ask you something. Okay. Of all the stand-ups, you know, who is more serious than a stand-up?

That's so true.

Right. About their stand-up work.

Who, would you say, is funnier in person than on stage? and they're great on stage?

Marty Short is the funniest-.

Marty Short. Zach Galifianakis?

No. Zach Galifianakis is a stand-up. He's the funniest person in person, which is hard to believe because he's so funny on stage and in stuff.

Will Ferrell? Ferrell. Ferrell's not a stand-up. Although, does Ferrell ever? ...

Conan.

Yeah.

Conan. Yeah. Incredibly funny. Will Ferrell be? Uh-huh.

We'll be right back.

Having said all that, what I wanted to know, Lisa, who is in your class at Groundlings? Wasn't Conan? Conan. Conan. So Conan was?

Sorry.

I thought you were going to go the other way. No.

He wouldn't make you quit. We'll cut that one, Will.

Yeah. You were weird. Tell us about that at the Groundlings because- Yeah.

It was nuts. Well, I couldn't take Groundlings classes because they wouldn't let me, because I hadn't had enough experience with anything. So they sent me to Cynthia Szigeti, an improv teacher at the Coronet, which is now, ... God damn it. Largo.

An imaginary disc.

Yes.

Yeah.

Sounds heavy.

And so one of them was doing it and it was Conan, this tall, really tall redhead guy, is lifting the disc and when he's angry, he's just kind of angry, and he's just really lifting a disc or throwing the space ball without too much. And the teacher, Cynthia, was saying, good commitment. I went, oh, that's commitment. It's not embarrassing. You're just really-.

Uh-huh. Oh, that's cool.

... doing it. That is cool. And I thought, okay, that guy. So I made sure I made a beeline to him, said, hi, I'm Lisa.

That's amazing.

That's amazing. From that moment on. And is it true that Conan gives you credit for him taking over Letterman?

Not credit, no, but-.

But a little push.

Kind of. I mean, because he was asked to produce that show. Lorne Michaels asked Conan to be the producer. So they were looking for someone to be the host. And Conan would say, I want someone smart, but funny, but who can have a conversation with writers, authors, and politicians.

Yeah.

Right. So it's kind of the only-. That's funny.

And at this point, was he the head writer on Saturday Night Live?

No, he was at The Simpsons.

Oh, that's right. The Simpsons. Yeah.

Had he been at Saturday Night Live or not yet there?

No, he had already been. That's how Lorne Michaels knew him.

Okay.

That's wild. And you guys have been close ever since. That's so cool. And then you actually went back to the Groundlings to teach, right? So then you became Cynthia.

No, while you're at the Groundlings, you can teach. And I taught Cheryl Hines in my class. Some other people too, and I don't remember. I voted Will Ferrell into the Groundlings. Wow.

That's so cool.

Nice vote.

Not me alone, but- Yeah.

Well, but you might want to do a lap on that one, though. Sure. I'd do a lap. An influential vote. David Spade.

Lisa, have you ever done standup?

No. Well, no.

Would you?

Would you? No. Why?

Because I don't want to write jokes.

Yeah. But what about if somebody wrote them for you? What about being a host of a late night show? Oh. Well, but what about like, let's say like the monologue that the Jimmy's do, or would you do that?

No.

No.

Could you do late night?

No.

That's what I'm saying.

Yeah. What do you mean?

Like be a guest?

Yeah, would you host a late night talk show? I don't want to host anything.

You know what I mean. Okay, now you're being confrontational.

See, I think that'd be such a great job.

You listen to me. No, I-.

Now, Sean, you've done, and Will, you've done, you've guest hosted Kimmel's show. Yeah. So you've done- Oh, wow. You've done monologues up front there. Yeah.

I like it.

Yeah. Me too. It's kind of fun.

I would be really interested in trying to-.

No, but it's not just the monologues, because then you have to interview people, which you all three know how to do.

And that can be death.

Yeah, I don't think I could do that.

Look how fucking shitty we are at it. But we get to like, it's cut three ways. If it was just me interviewing somebody, you'd answer a question and I'd just be nodding at you and going, huh, that's great. I would not have my next question ready.

That's the right part of the job.

No, that's my fear too.

No, but even if somebody gives you the question, no, it would be hard just to give the impression that I'm interested. Right.

But I'll bet, I would love to watch the talk show. And Letterman was kind of good at this too, although he was a decent fellow about it, but he'd still let you see in just a little bit that he's not feeling this guest. This guest is not hitting the ball back like they should. They're acting like they're doing us a favor by being on the show. I used to like that.

I don't know. I'm just looking at Lisa and I'm remembering, Lisa, have I ever told you this? I'm remembering the first time we ever met.

Uh-oh. Did you go to Sean? Should Sean and I take a five?

We've gone on to work together. Lisa and I did BoJack Horseman. together. We've done some stuff.

Great show. My God.

Really great. You were so great on it. But the first time we met, it was like the first year of Arrested Development. Somehow, we were at the Beverly Hills Hotel. There was something going on.

No. You probably don't. You probably don't. I know. You told me this.

I think I told you this. Friends was still maybe this last year. Okay. And I was such a huge fan, as you know, because I've bored you with it at least so many times, such a huge fan of the comeback. I mean, I just fricking loved it.

I was being funny. I know. I know. You're trying to be funny.

It really hurt my feelings. I drove, and I crashed my car.

I'm so sorry. I know. You told me, and I said that, and I'm saying it now.

I'm sorry. Did you literally get in an accident?

You got in an accident?

No, I didn't get in. No, I didn't. I didn't get in an accident. But I was like, I really... Because she was like a big star.

She still is. I know. At least...

But I felt like a ding dong. Anyway.

Tell my sister, Tracy, who's listening from Wisconsin about... Because I know I still love this show.

By the way, I'm sorry, Tracy, I've been gone for a month and a half. I just got home to that really sweet Wisconsin Badger golf shirt you sent.

We already talked about it.

No, Jason didn't. Well, but I had not opened it. yet. I was still in New York. And you know, Tracy, I don't like it.

I thought you were going the other way.

No. I love it. I love it. I love it. And thank you, thank you, thank you.

But at least for my sister, who may not know this story, I always find it so interesting. And a lot of people do know, but if you wouldn't mind, first of all, I want to go... Scotty, and I watch episodes of Cheers a lot. Like, we'll take like 10 years off and then we'll watch Cheers again. And I'm always blown away when you pop on there, I was like, oh my God, is that one of your first jobs on Cheers?

That was the first guest starring job on Telestar.

That's so cool. You were so great on that.

Like half Tartt lead.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Really?

Yeah. And you met Jimmy Burrows for the first time right there.

Yeah. And I think that's where I was going. So then, Frasier, right, are mad about you. then. What was next?

Frasier.

Frasier.

Well, not next. after I did Other Guest Star. Apparently, I was on Coach like three times. Apparently.

As IMDb made a mistake.

Do you not remember that experience?

That's right. Wow. And recently I worked with Linda Lavin and she said, you were on a pilot. that I did. The casting director reminded me.

And you forgot about it.

Nothing. It's like those, like the Uber Eats commercials, where you purge stuff so that you have room for other things.

Yeah.

Yeah. Right.

So, so when you were, Ursula, I'm mad about you.

And that I do remember.

Okay. So, and that, that's the thing that caught. what? Jimmy Burrow's attention, the network's attention, or what?

No. Um, David Crane's boyfriend, partner is Jeffrey Klarik, and Jeffrey was a writer for Mad About You at the time. So when they were casting friends, uh, Jeffrey said, what about Lisa who's playing Ursula? That might be a good Phoebe.

Wow.

Right. And, but you didn't, but you filmed the part of Roz for Frasier before that?

Yeah. Yeah. I got, no, no, I didn't film it. I got fired before that.

Oh, let's hear it.

You got fired from, from Frasier?

Frasier. Yeah.

Isn't that interesting though?

Is it because you put hands on Kelsey or David or just running around?

You know me so well. Oh my God.

You had an issue with the dog.

Is it put hands on, like wringing necks, or put hands on cupping somebody?

No, no, no. That's striking somebody or shaking somebody vigorously.

Well, you know how violent I am. Isn't it wild? how just everything works out? Like you don't get that, so you get that, and then it's just always. I know.

And it was devastating to get fired, but.

So when you got, so, when you went in for, for the part of Phoebe on Friends, you knew Jimmy already, Jimmy Burrows, for those who don't know, directed the pilot and a bunch of the first season of Friends, the great Jimmy Burrows, whom we all adore. So when you went to audition for that, he was already very familiar with you and loved you evidently.

Well, he was familiar enough that, you know, I got fired from the last thing. So, by the way, do you know when we shot the reunion for Friends? or was it there or something else like a Jim Burrows celebration, where I learned I was the only cast member for Friends that had to audition for Jimmy Burrows.

Really? Really?

Why is that?

Because I had just gotten fired from Frasier. And he was directing it.

So Jimmy had been, he had been instrumental in your firing from Frasier.

I don't know.

He probably could have fought it.

It sounds like it. I mean, you know.

So he felt bad. He probably didn't want to cast you in. Friends, was like, ah, listen, I already fired this kid once. Give her this job.

No, he's not like that. You know what? He's smarter than that. No. But when I had my audition, I did it.

Let's pull him into this call.

Yeah. Okay. Call him up.

Can you just hold one second?

No, when you went to audition?

When I auditioned, it's just this small room. He's sitting at a desk. I'm in a chair. And the audition was like a little monologue thing.

Where? Where was it? Do you remember?

At Warner Brothers. Okay. And when I'm done, he just went, no notes.

Yeah.

Wow.

And I thought, all right. But that's a good.

I don't know what that means. That's pretty good.

Like it's hopeless or it's perfect.

Do you remember?

Do you remember? So you do that. That's probably in the spring of like 94, maybe 93, something like that, right? Here she comes. Mrs.

No.

No, you don't.

No. It wasn't like that. It was Mad About You. that changed a lot for me, because I had been fired from Frasier and then I did a guest star on Mad About You. They had me back.

Oh, thank God you did that.

There's my rent for the year. I don't have to get another day job.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then your dad's scrambling to find somebody to hand out the Tylenol.

Lisa, can you say, or can you remember, do you know why you were fired from Frasier?

I don't.

It just wasn't working.

I don't know. So you were like midweek. You were like through the producer, run through, through the network, run through or something, and then they made a switch?

But during the run throughs, because Jimmy was saying like, this isn't working, so just don't even.

Right.

They'll have, they have to fix it. Right. Because I was trying to like, what's not working? What can I do? But I think they did make a casting mistake with me because I went to the network with Perry Gilpin.

Yeah. Oh, wow.

And for whatever reason.

Who got the part.

Yes. And so I think they were just correcting a mistake.

Got it. Got it. Got it.

Got it. Because Perry should have always been Ross.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.

I got fired and then rehired.

Or the stuff that you don't get, and then you end up being available for the thing that you, I mean, like, you know, that classic story of you and Rain on Arrested Development.

Well, first of all, no, the year before I got fired off that pilot that it was, the show became still standing and when it went to, got picked up for a series and I didn't get picked up. and, but it would never felt right. And had I not been fired at the time, I was like, fuck it, what a great job. Had I not been fired, I wouldn't have been available for Arrested Development. Yeah.

But can I ask you guys something when you are fired from something?

Yeah.

I mean, I know for me, there's that moment of, wow, maybe this just isn't supposed to work out this career choice.

Oh yeah. All the time.

Oh, you did have that when?

I have it every day.

Yeah. It's not working out.

You know what, Lisa? I did. My thing was like, I was so, I ended up getting fired and I said, I was kind of like, fuck them. And I was living in New York at the time. Amy was doing SNL and I was like, I'm going to do, I happened to do.

Yeah. Powerhouse.

Yeah. So you're there for like a week and you're, you're kind of workshopping a new play. And I met this, uh, this playwright and this director, and he ended up calling me and saying, I'm going to do this play with the new group off Broadway. And so I was like, I'm just going to stay in New York and do theater and fuck TV. That was my thing was like, they're not firing me.

Right. That'll show them.

But that kind of made me get my head around, it, feel better about myself. That's how I dealt with it. Yeah.

But, but you're right, Lisa. It's so, all you need is just one, one firing. And you think, maybe I just don't, because it's so thin what we do, it's not, it's not, it's not backed up by credentials and diplomas, and, and, and, and, and four years of finishing school and all of that stuff. It's just, it's so sort of subjective, you know?

And also, Lisa, think about it similarly to you. within a year, my life changed after that moment where I thought it was all done.

Yeah.

My life changed forever. It's the same for you.

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. I mean, but that's, what's important to me, like for younger artists who definitely have talent. and yes, you can be discouraged, but then you've got to pull yourself back up.

It'll win. That mindset will win.

We'll be right back.

Lisa, let me ask you this on this, on this subject, cause I was just talking about it, because sometimes, and I'm sure you guys have had it too, like, you know, my parents will be like, so-and-so's grand nephew is, wants to be an actor. Will you talk to him? And I always think like, I want to be generous, but also, and I was just talking about it two hours ago and of what, what would I say, what would you do if you were 20 years old today, starting over again? It's such a different world from when we all started. Yeah.

It's so different now.

Well, is it that different in a, I think it's different in a good way, though, because what I had always said was say yes to everything except porn.

That was always my advice.

Sean, yeah.

Darn it. Well, keep going.

But it worked out anyway for you. And that's a joke. Everybody listening. No. No.

Yeah.

I would say to somebody, and these are unrealistic, um, sort of parameters is that like, yeah, go, do it if you don't need it in order to make a living. And also if you don't need to be hired to find validation about your talent. Like? those are two really hard things to like, my confidence was always tied to being chosen to being employed. You know, like if I, if I didn't get the job, I can't feel good about myself.

I agree. And I think that you're right. And I've, we've talked about this before again, which is, I've never believed, I think it's really dangerous to tie your, your self worth into what you're doing, right? But at the same time, JB, think about it. Your perspective is different, because you grew up working your whole life since you were a kid.

Um, yeah. And I was being employed at a time when I didn't really care about being employed. And then, when it, when it became important to be employed, things had sort of dried out for me. And so, like I had, I need to make money and I also needed to feel good about myself. And it was just, it was just, it was just tough.

Right. That's hard to do. Period. I mean, that's sort of like the whole lifelong commitment.

That's the journey right there.

I have something to say about Friends still.

Okay. Okay. Sorry, we got a caller here. Go ahead.

Yes. We were all friends. Yeah.

Is that it?

Okay.

Um, what are your thoughts about the ebb and flow of the show? Because I remember when I moved to LA, Friends was obviously massive. I moved in 95 and it was huge. And then there was a hibernation period after it was over, and then Netflix took over and there was this resurgence of popularity. Not that it ever went away, but it just came back at this massive, almost as big as when it first started.

Yeah. But I mean, it was always on in syndication.

So yeah, but that's what I'm saying. But even in syndication, it didn't seem like it made as big of an impact as it did when it moved to Netflix. Right.

That's what I heard.

Well, yeah.

But I mean, that's the, speaking more to the phenomena of Netflix than anything else. But it was so, it was so popular and it's undeniable, right? So, like we're just sort of stating the obvious. It was, it was so incredibly popular and still is, but so popular and also so internationally popular. It was so big.

Everybody I know.

Yeah.

But, Lisa, you went on to, you went on to, you're one of the few who, you know, had such an iconic character on a television show and then you achieved what seems like from the outside the impossible and parlayed that into and broke out of Phoebe, which a lot of people can't do.

Oh, you think I did?

You did. You did Romeo and Michelle's, Romeo and Michelle's high school, um, high school reunion, opposite of sex. Uh, I analyzed this, you were so fucking great and analyze this and then the comeback. So that's what I was getting to, because I'm a massive, massive fan of that show. I've seen every episode.