my fashion soulmate, a talk with jared ellner [video]
2024-02-01 00:57:53
emma prefers to share her thoughts with a microphone rather than a physical human being, so thank god she has a podcast. recorded from the comfort of her bed...and some other fun places, emma talks at length about whatever is on her mind every week. anything really does go on this podcast. sometimes philosophy, sometimes a random story from 10 years ago, sometimes advice, sometimes fun interviews, and sometimes nothing at all. you never know what you are going to get, but that’s what keeps it interesting. new episodes every thursday and sunday, video available only on spotify.
Today, I present to you Jared Elder, my stylist, my closest confidant, my soulmate, my fashion soulmate, sometimes my boyfriend. But that's weird. No, today I'm going to be talking fashion with the only person I want to talk about fashion with Jared, my stylist, my fashion soulmate. I've always been very into fashion myself, and I truly do believe that my relationship with Jared has allowed me to explore fashion. With less of someone who's telling me what to do, and rather a partner in crime, somebody who also has a fashion mind, who is excited about putting together looks, coming up with new things, experimenting for various events and even day-to-day life. We are true collaborators, and together we put together outfits, and that's really all it is. And I can't wait for you to hang out with Jared, because my God, I love hanging out with Jared.
I do it all the time. He's bestie. But now you get to have a little piece of Jared and I had to drag him on here. So enjoy Jared and don't take it for granted because he is a rare fruit. Were you a stylish kid?
My first instinct is to scream, No. I really wasn't a stylish kid. I was just obsessed with fashion, deep cut fashion. Actually, I grew up in a repressed town, so I was not that stylish.
Your style was fitting in with the kids.
Totally.
What was that? Describe an outfit for Jared in high school?
It's kind of similar to what I wear now, because I just wear a t-shirt and pants. That's what happens, but it was a bad t-shirt and ill-fitting.
It was a worse t-shirt and a worse pair of pants.
That's it. There wasn't much going on, which is embarrassing.
That's one of my favorite things about you, though, is that? Before we started working together, I was like, stylists must have the best personal style. It must be so insane and dynamic and crazy. It must be present there. What was so fascinating to me about you is that your personal style is understated. It's not like you're wearing an Alexander McQueen gown to your birthday party.
You're wearing Carhartt's t-shirt, but with a chic little boot.
Totally.
You know what I'm saying to me? It's so fascinating that your interest in fashion seems to be outside of yourself. It's not like you're obsessed with what you put on you, you're obsessed with the art of it. Elaborate on that.
I just didn't think about it, I didn't think about what I was wearing too hard growing up. Happy and fit in. Great, we love it. Then it progressed.
Hopefully it got cuter and simple. I've never been a person who stares in the mirror and is like, Okay, how does this fit? what does this look like? what do I have to do to look like this? I'm obsessed with how other people look and how to turn someone else into something.
I think that's hopefully translated to my style, where it improved. Now. I do think about it. But it was never about, like, Oh my god. I have to be a stylist because I love sneakers or something, you know what I mean? I have 500 sneakers, I have two sneakers.
You know what I mean, that's the vibe.
You're weirdly a minimalist with your own closet. If I go into your closet, which I do, I'm looking around and-.
There's nothing.
It's simple, it's effective. I feel like you have your uniform so that you can focus on putting other people into their little costume. Totally, this is not a personal inward art form for you.
It's very outward, I feel like it's all about putting things out.
For sure, I mean, honestly, it's like each time somebody gets dressed, it's like a little art project, I'm doing little dioramas, that's what it feels like.
You're doing a little diorama on me and then I'm in leather underwear on the-.
And somehow, it's a really slutty diorama.
Yeah, it's so crazy, but it's totally hot.
Yeah, it's amazing.
And effective at the party.
And inappropriate.
It's super inappropriate.
It's totally fine.
And it was controversial.
Was it?
People were like, Who's this fucking freak? and then they were like, it's kind of cool, actually.
Wait a second, they're taking their pants off. We're talking about when you wore acne studios, underwear, leather and a jacket, yes, and nothing else.
And nothing else, actually. We'll get into that later, we'll talk about all of our looks later, what all of the fun risks we've taken because we got riskier later.
Okay, so you went to fashion school in New York City, Parsons?
I went to Parsons, but I went for design. I did not dream of being a stylist. I don't think there was one time that I was growing up that I dreamt of being a stylist. I wanted to be a designer like always, and then after college, I just started working at a magazine.
And then you quite literally turned me into a stylist. I would not have been a stylist, something else would have happened. But you were like, Wait, I need a stylist, and I was like, I'll do it.
But that's why I never thought about it. But I went to school for fashion, which is also like the fashion. Kids are less like, what's my vibe? and they show up in like something blank, and they're like, What's your vibe?
Yeah, and that's what's so interesting about it is that, for me, like, fashion is so personal. For me, I do love fashion. Objectively, like I do enjoy looking at it and analyzing it and thinking about it.
But it's like, I think I only do because I like using it as a form of personal expression, and I think that's kind of what sets apart. I'm realizing, like a true fashion head who's like, I want to work in this shit in the sense that I'm designing, I'm a stylist. I mean, this is not true across the board, but I'm noticing it more.
Yeah.
Actually, now I'm thinking about it more, and it depends.
What do you mean?
Because I'm like, now I'm thinking about it. And there are definitely some stylists who it's very personal for them too, like they want to be dressed up totally, you know what I mean?
It's a mix, it's a mix some people need to, like, live in the fantasy of it, too, along with the people that they're dressing. And I think I'm like, just starting to have more fun with that. But I never got into this to be involved at all, like.
I just want to, like, be behind the scenes and like, do the cute things and like, make it all happen and then, like, disappear. But I think the people who are excited by, like, being in the spotlight, too, it's a different story.
It's a different vibe. Jared needs to be in the spotlight, and isn't, isn't it always this way? Those who really deserve to be in the spotlight because they're so special, they just want to be hidden.
I just want to go to bed.
They just want to go to bed, it's actually true. I try to make Jared go out with me on the weekends and he's like, I'm sending my boyfriend Owen with you.
I'd do it for you more than anybody in my entire life.
No, it's amazing.
Are you kidding me, Jared? You're so brave with me.
Every three asks, two of them are no's, but for anyone else, it's just a blanket, no?
I know, but that's why, like, I love our relationship.
Totally, we push each other.
It's like, we're perfect for each other, we're soulmates.
We are soulmates.
Okay, so you went to fashion school, you were like, I want to be a designer, now, you are a designer and you design clothes.
Not, I mean.
Yeah, you do, you know how to design clothes, and you design clothes.
We're working on it.
You are a phenomenal designer, I've worn your clothes.
Totally, you actually have, that's true.
Yeah, so stop lying to the public because it's just weird.
That was a scary moment for me, really. Yeah, of course, I think that was one of like, our first five fittings, maybe. And we were just doing like, cute stuff to dress up in. And I put you in it and you were like, This is so cute.
And I didn't say anything until, like, after you'd worn it or something, because I was. I don't want to like, influence you and be like, I made this, but I did make that.
Well, it's deeply personal to create something, and then, you know, it's even scarier. Actually. In retrospect, I'm scared. Like, Imagine I? You had showed it to me and been like, What do you think of this? And I said, Ooh, Jared, that's hideous and you made it.
But that's fair, you need feedback, by the way, that's happened, not with you, with other people.
I'll tell you about it later.
I can't wait. I'm already thinking about, Okay, so, um, I'm curious about your education. What's one thing that you learned from going to fashion school that you feel like is invaluable, if anything?
And what's one thing that you wish you had learned and you didn't?
Something that I learned that was invaluable. I like how knowing how clothes are made and like how to fit them is like, I don't know how you do this without it. Because there are so many times where one, we're rolling up to the red carpet and the dress falls apart. Uh oh, we have to sew it back together.
We have to tell that story later.
It was terrifying, It was terrifying, There were bigger issues, but that was horrible, horrible. But like, knowing how to repair something, knowing how to make something fit, clothes are not meant to fit everybody.
They're meant to fit like one person, so you have to like, really, mold it and shape it and make it look like flawless. And that takes, like, knowing where to pull that tucks that in that, like cinches hair, like, remember the dress you wore for business of fashion, like, that's a contraption.
Something like knowing how to turn that into something that actually fits is like, I don't know how I would do this without that. I don't know how people do it without knowing how to make or adjust clothes.
It's not like you're taking something off the rack and you're getting it in the correct size and then you're putting it on somebody. Or, and it's like, and it's not also like, Oh, if this doesn't fit, then we're not wearing it. It's like, No. A lot of times we're taking these pieces that are like, you know, okay, there's one size? And it's basically like, can we make this work? And it is a huge, huge, huge piece of everything that we do is like, trying to figure out, how can we make this look right? Because, I mean, especially when we're working with pieces from the runway and stuff like that, it's like, it's a nightmare, it's it's, you know, but I never even thought about that.
Like the technical side of the structure of a garment that is huge and invaluable.
But there's so many instances where it's just you and I in a dressing room somewhere, or like somewhere random, or in a remote part of. I don't even know where, where. It's just like me, you and some safety pins. And it's like, if I didn't feel confident in my ability to alter things, I would be like, Okay, well, you're going to look horrible. And there's nothing we can do.
Well, there's going to be something weird and baggy in the garage.
It looks amazing, but it's just one giant lump on the back.
Yeah, okay, that's, that's huge.
That's, that's something I'm really happy, that I learned something that I wish we had spent more time on. This is, I don't really know how to scribe this, describe this, but like, I wish there was more emphasis on. Like, how you put an outfit together and like, like, genuinely, what you are so good at doing, and like, why you are so good at fashion. You can put pieces together and you know what that style evokes. Yeah, this is going to be really steamy in a second, but it's true.
You are like, you are brilliant for that, I've learned so much from you. Because I, that's not how I look at fashion, and you look at fashion in a way that's so personal. And you can figure out how to turn random pieces into, like, a style or a vibe. And I, if I had known or thought about fashion like that, I think I would be better, like if I had started there.
Okay, so you start working at a magazine, you're doing editorial styling for the magazine, you're right.
I started as an assistant, but yeah, eventually.
Cause you did that for me. Wait, tell the story of how we met. Sorry, Okay, great.
I was working at a magazine called Garage Magazine, I was so lucky to work there, it was a magazine of six people and I was the assistant. And then I worked there for years with, like, the fucking sickest team, and I learned so much, it was insane. And then by the end, like year, like three and a half. I started styling my own shoots and, like, working less as an assistant and more as an editor.
And they wanted to do a TikTok shoot because TikTok was like it. And they were like, the most ironic thing possible. They were like, Okay, let's do a TikTok shoot. What is that? What do we do?
And I forget how, but I remember being like, we should use Emma Chamberlain for it. And they were like, Okay, that's never going to happen, and I was like, Yeah, I know, but this is we're spitballing, this is brainstorming. And then, shockingly, I guess you were down and they were like, Okay, she's doing it.
And I was like, Oh shit? And they were like, you're going to style it? and I was like, Okay, I'm going to jump off a bridge and. But it was actually great.
We had so much fun.
That was a fun shoot.
Okay, so it was basically we shot for, like, what, seven hours? Yeah, it felt like for one TikTok and it had crazy transitions.
This is when no one knew what TikTok was, what the point of it was. I remember doing the story and being like, this is going to be so out of touch in three weeks. But we still did it and it was, it was great. But also it was in the era where TikTok was just dance, that's it, it was a song, and it was a dance.
There was nothing else.
Maybe a lip sync?
Maybe I don't even know, I don't even know if. Lip syncing.
Maybe not even a lip sync.
I don't know if they heard of it yet. No, so it was basically you doing one TikTok, switching outfits the entire time. And I have like a lot of criticism for that shoot because, like it was the first thing I ever did, I would change a lot.
I have such a fondness for the way that you styled that. Why? Because, okay, it was campy to the max and to me. I don't think that that TikTok would have been interesting had the styling been maybe more cool or maybe more like. It kind of had to be campy and crazy and fun. And you put me in this like, insane dress that had the crazy, the big, it was so loud and so crazy.
And it was so. That's what made the TikTok and I had, like, pink eyeshadow on.
You did.
And it was like, also, the hairstylist taped my face back, remember?
Yeah, you look so good, I look so good.
Holy Fuck, you look so good.
Every time I've gotten my face taped for a shoot after that point, it's been like, Damn, I can't ever go back.
No, damn, this shit feels good. Yeah, it's really nice.
Actually, it hurts so bad.
It's horrible, but the result is like a relief.
Wow, it's like, wow, for those of you who don't know what. Getting your face taped means, you put two little, there's two sticky pads that go on your temples, and then there's little hooks on them. And then there's an elastic that you put around your head. And it just lifts your face as though you have like a snatched ponytail, and your face just looks.
It's completely toxic.
It's horribly toxic.
It's like, horribly-.
It's ruining our, it's ruining world industry. No, no, no.
This is like, when we all say social media is fake, it's like, Yeah, yeah, the girl's face is taped. Okay, so let's go back. So we were sorry.
No, we, that was me, but also Jared, you're up in ice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah.
Okay, so we're you're putting me in these crazy outfits for this TikTok shoot. And I at the time didn't have a stylist. I, for me, was almost anti the idea because I was like, I-.
You are style, I'm sorry you became who you are, in part for your style and how good you are at doing that. And that's like such a crazy thing, because that's like, how does one even do that, you know what?
I actually do think that that's why I was so against it, because I was like, I'm going to lose my edge. It's not going to be me anymore. And so I was always so against the idea.
Which is very valid.
But the only time I would work with a stylist was at a photo shoot. When it was like, editorial. And it was like, Okay, I'm being put in like a crazy outfit. And this is so fun. But also for my day to day, or like, for, you know, even for an event. I used to style myself and I would really do bad at that. I don't believe that.
That was not good. No, my first event outfit ever-.
What is it?
Was insane.
Wait, we've never looked at that. What was it?
Imagine this.
Tell me I'm thinking.
Okay, it was a pair of super high-waisted gray plaid pants that were tapered, though, so that's where they got bad. And then we had a Gucci boot lace up, yeah.
A little heel. Now that gets worse. I had a white bodysuit on. I'm so sorry.
This whole event that I went to not only was my worst outfit, but also it was that embarrassing speech I did at the Streamy Awards. Oh no, I won an award and I went up on stage and I bombed the speech. And I still get made fun of about it to this day. Fair enough, you guys, this is good, though.
You need to be character building.
Humbled Yes, you can't. This is something we actually discussed. You can't be hot all the time.
Nope, you can't and you shouldn't.
It's not right for the fabric of society, like it's not good.
You cannot, and anyone who is-.
Is a bad person.
Bad, evil, evil, evil. Stay away.
Something's wrong.
Sinister? Yeah, sinister if you can't find a skeleton in the closet, like an embarrassing skeleton in the closet of a human being.-.
Something's wrong.
No, no, no huge red flag, abort mission like get out totally.
Because it's not going to be good, so yeah, that was really bad.
That's tough.
So, like my personal style, I did not want to be threatened, but I was like, and I just was scared. I was like, if I hire a stylist, you know what's going to happen to my own personal identity? But I was also at the time like working with stylists only for photo shoots, so that's how I met Jared. The whole styling world, like, what a stylist was. I always thought of it as this is so business.
Yeah, this is so for press, for magazines, for this, for that, for the red carpet. And at the time, I was rarely doing those things, so it was like, I don't know. It was just interesting because I met you in a context where I was like, this is so fun to like, work with somebody on this, and I love this, but also where does this fit into my life anyway?
But then I was like, no something clicked for me, and I was like, I need a stylist.
Well, you became a busy girl.
Well, it was also it was like a combination of like, oh, I'm starting to go to more events, I'm starting to have more photo shoots for for things. But also like, it'd be so fun to have. Just like a partner in crime on this, who can like, who has the resources to to go out? And this is huge. Basically, rent things, lend things because it's just unsustainable to be always buying new things and then now you own them.
It makes no sense.
Whereas, like, Jared and I are like, technically renting things all the time, and then I wear it and then we give it back, so it's like anywho. So I was like, I need a stylist and I, Jared was the only option.
It's interesting that if you don't want to have a stylist because you don't want to lose your identity. But when you start doing so much that you need to be in clothes so much. If you work with a bunch of random people, then you actually don't have any identity. I think it's like, it's really helpful to have somebody to grow with. So that you can, like, start to feel like one brain and that you don't have to explain anything. And they know about your weird stomach issues and if what's going to work with that or not. And also like, what vibe you are in in your life.
No body suits jared. Emma might have diarrhea at the function.
Exactly No thongs, because I can't actually say this.
I'm going to make it really big shit, no thongs, because Emma will shit herself and it will be everywhere. No, I mean, I think like, what happened was is my publicist Kate was like, you need a stylist like you can't handle. Like dressing yourself for events, dressing yourself for, like photo shoots, dressing yourself for even, you know, even just pulling pieces for day to day life. Like you just don't have time.
And she was like, you really need to consider a stylist, and I was so against it. And then she was like, What about Jared? And I was like, Yeah, actually, that is perfect. Because I could tell that you were never going to make it your agenda, like I could tell immediately that fashion for you, there's not ego in it for you.
Like you, it's art for you. And so. And that was so clear to me on that day that the second she said it, I was like, that makes complete sense. That is, that is exactly who it is. And you know, very, very quickly, I feel like our relationship just became what it is, and I would say it's very unusual.
Do you agree?
I can't stop smiling. That was the sweetest time that was, so I was so scared during that time.
It was like falling in love.
That was actually falling in love. But like the scare, I hope you weren't nervous. I was so nervous during that time.
I was nervous, too, because it's like, this is like, weirdly, an intimate thing.
I'm like inside you, like I'm like taking your pants off and like putting on like Geez, like it's so intimate.
It's, I mean, like at the Met one year. Like he's cutting my underwear, like he's like up my skirt inside with scissors, cutting this seam around my underwear. Cause you could see it through through, you can see it through my skirt. It is an incredibly intimate relationship, on an emotional level and on a physical level.
So intimate, it's crazy, right? It's insane. But I think when we first started working together, we did Chamberlain coffee shoot and I put you in. I didn't know that your mom was going to be at this shoot.
No one told me, and for whatever reason, I thought it was appropriate to put you in. A gorgeous, but like such a slutty outfit for the first outfit we've ever done, like, officially together. Oh my god, it was stunning, it was this beaded miniskirt and top, but it was so short and the top was so tiny.
And my nipple was kind of poking through the bead just a little bit, just a little bit.
And we were like, Oh, but the pants, you were hotter, and you were in the highest heels. Yes, like all the Chamberlain coffee shoots before that tan demure, it's holiday full skank. It was so fun, though.
And then your mom literally walked out from the back room and my heart sank, and I was like, It's over.
Yeah, but now you know that, like, no one's a bigger fan of Jared than my mom.
I loved it. No, no, no, no one's a bigger fan of, well, maybe me, but also you looking hot and slutty.
My mom loves it.
Loves it, she's obsessed with it.
My mom does like, yeah, she does love it, she loves it, cause she's like, Emma, like, why are you not tapping into this? Have fun, literally?
You're young.
She's correct.
Like, enjoy.
But not all moms are like that. So I did get a little nervous, but then you found out. But then I found out and I was like, Okay, we should go shorter, yeah.
Like, when are we going shorter? And then, you know, fast forward to now. I wear underwear on the red carpet, so she's super happy, she's super happy, she's really proud of you.
She's kind of like, what I've turned into? Wait. Describe our relationship in your words.
My words, yeah.
Yeah, and then I'll describe our relationship in my words.
Well, I'll fill in the gaps. Okay, cool, truthfully, like I really do feel like you're my fashion sister, soulmate. Like, there are very few people who maybe don't agree, cause we mostly agree. But like, who understand what I want to articulate, or I want you to articulate, or what I'm envisioning or imagining? Like you, I think, can understand what I'm going for very easily.
And a lot of people. It takes a lot of work and a lot of proving and a lot of trust and a lot of like successes. To be like, Okay, I trust you, but I think you really get it and also are excited by the same things. I feel deeply connected to you in a disgusting way. That's very embarrassing.
It's fashion, and then it's also like, cause the thing is, Jared and I, if we were not doing fashion, would still be best friends anyway.
I would hope so.
Jared, you're my best friend. I literally I'm like, I don't have anyone else, Jared.
By the way, same no, I know.
We need each other, and then and then, with Owen, the three of us, it's like, Ooh, this is, this is life.
This is it's I don't know if this is the right description. But I will never, ever, ever be more grateful for a relationship. Probably ever in my life, maybe my family, maybe maybe Owen, but like you, maybe Owen, no, but also maybe not in.
The group chat right now. Like, Jared, what the fuck was that?
He heard it, yeah, he heard it, he probably did hear it, but genuinely, because nobody else. One still like, allows me to, like, do what I want to do in a way that you allow me to. But also it's really a lot of like, trust and power to put in someone's hands and to feel confident enough to choose a random. I don't know how old was I at the time.
23, 22, 23 year old, you'd be like, Okay, you is crazy. it's crazy, like you fully changed my life and you, uh, yeah, I will never get over it.
We can't we literally have to talk about something so so like, so super inappropriate and superficial after this. Or I'm going to start crying because Jared, I like, I mean, you to me are complete fashion soulmate, and it's there's. Not only do we see eye to eye, but we also disagree.
We've gotten good at disagreeing. No, no, no.
It's amazing, Jared. I would argue creative relationships are fucking pointless if it just becomes an echo chamber. Yeah, if you agree about everything, no one gets challenged, no one learns.
It's so healthy to disagree. I mean, I think that's why we create so many looks that we're proud of together because we fight. It's like, No, no, no, no, no, no, not that. Like hair needs to be up, Jared hair needs to be down.
We do get in a lot of glam specific.
Yeah, this is like for red carpet events.
There's a lot.
We're always like, Jared's like, Yeah, you're wearing a ponytail down to the ass for for today.
Yeah, it's going to have to be a ponytail.
JaRed Can we just do like natural, like, let's just do like a natural like, super scruffy like, looks like? I like, didn't brush my hair for four days. He's like there was a period down to your ankle.
There was a period where that was the fight, though, and for like, six months. I feel like there was a certain length of your hair where you're like, scruffy, obviously. Yeah. I was like, it can't be.
And then we kept getting into fights. I have a few memories of some good fights, but also just before I forget, the opposite, I feel like. Happens too, where either someone gets dressed by a stylist and they take all of their opinions completely, or they need to dictate the show. And they have to, like, do what they want to do. And they are unable to actually tap into a stylist's ideas. Because they're either too insecure, or they're they need to stick to what they've done, or they have their controlling, like, whatever, yeah, like, that's also something, too.
So it's both ways, like both people have to be equally open.
I recently did some self-reflecting because I was like, my style really is all over the place. Like, you know, we go to one event and I'm, and I look like this, like pretty little princess. And then we go to another event and I'm wearing, you know, the leather underwear, and then I'm going to another event. And I'm a little, you know, I'm like, school girl like preppy vibe, and then I'm playing tennis and then I look like an alien. And it's like, I've always wondered, like, what is the through line? is there a through line?
Does there need to be a through line?
As long as it feels authentic, then it's on the same path. But that's the thing. You have so many different facets that, like, all of that's authentic. Like, I think you're so comfortable with so many parts of yourself that, like, you're like.
There's a lot of parts.
There's a lot of parts, there's a lot of looks.
There's a lot of looks.
So it's just different, but I don't know. I think that's the most fun part, and also I think more recently, for sure, you slash. We have gotten more experimental because you're even more comfortable and we're even more comfortable. And also it's a sense of like, who gives a fuck?
Yes.
I feel like we've gotten to a point where it's like, if we feel like it's good, even if it doesn't translate. 1 million percent like, we know what we did, yeah.
And we fucking like it. Yeah, I think that's something interesting I've noticed about the fashion world from the from the perspective of people in fashion, and from the perspective of people outside of fashion. I've just noticed that the fashion world, in all the various eyes on it, take it way too fucking seriously.
If somebody, a celebrity, wears a look on the carpet and the masses don't like it.
Yeah, it's like it's headline news.
It's headline news. Yeah, it's actually really insane how fashion has that effect.
It's crazy.
What are your thoughts on that?
It's just a waste of time to, like, be that critical about something that's so surface level. But then again, I also am obsessed with it, and that's what I spend my whole life doing, so I find it fascinating, so I kind of bounce back and forth. I think fashion is as equally dumb and a waste of time and overhyped as. I am deathly obsessed with it and will never stop thinking about it and spend every second of my day working on it.
So, like, I'm not a good barometer for this because I can't make up my mind about it.
What I've noticed is people who aren't necessarily in the fashion world, they don't really care, it's not their sport. Okay, they are really judgmental of fashion, totally.
Like most people who are not in fashion, think fashion is stupid. Yes, it's actually really fascinating, because I always did, too. I was like, this runway show is stupid.
Oh, really.
Yeah, I like, saw a show on YouTube or something. And it was like, there was all this stuff coming out and there was like, whatever? And I remember thinking, I don't get it. What the fuck is this, who is this for?
What purpose is this serving? I did not understand what it was, and so I thought it was dumb, and that's why I was critical of it.
Totally.
I was always hypercritical of fashion because I think I didn't understand it. But also I think in a weird way, I was threatened by not understanding it, which made me resent it.
I think that's how a lot of people probably feel. Because it's so at times over the top that it's like, how could I even engage with this? Okay, I can't engage with this? Wait, I'm kind of pissed about this, this is dumb. I feel like that's probably the trajectory.
And also, it's not wrong fashion is the most pretentious space. Unnecessarily, you find the people with the worst morals and who care about the worst things and are so judgmental, and not even the people. But the ideals that it projects, there's so much toxicity in it. But I think if you're not someone who's going to ever directly benefit from the parts that are great about it. Like, if you're never going to wear something for a photo shoot, or I don't know, not even that. But just dress up for the sake of dressing up.
Most people don't either have time to do that, or have the freedom to explore that or express that. If you're never actually going to benefit from fashion, it's pretty useless, but fashion can be horrible, and what it promotes is pretty horrible. A lot of the times, it's true, and we're actively working to change that.
Maybe we can make it about the art again.
I mean-.
Because I think that's what-.
That's what it should be.
Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm realizing both of us genuinely care about fashion because it to us is like, this is art to us. Yeah, totally, and I don't think that that is true for the rest of the industry.
No, fashion is like. For whatever reason. However, this happened over history, so deeply tied to power, and I think that's just fucked a lot of shit up. And I think also part of the allure and fun of the fashion industry is the sexy. Am I going to make it in? Are people going to respect me? Oh my god, this is so tough.
Wait, I did it. It's just like the devil wears Prada.
That movie, I think, is all anyone needs to know. As a stylist, how do you manage to figure out how to create a look that will translate to the world? What is that process like? But then also where's your head at when you're sending off your person, your client? And they're about to go get a bunch of photos taken, and there's now nothing you can do.
Talk about all this.
Literally terrifying, sending someone out and having no control. Horrible. You have to have thought through every possible thing that could go wrong or look wrong, or be weird or not. Make sense, so scary.
And who knows, there's a gust of wind when the photo's taken? Uh, oh, horrible.
Her boobie's out.
Her boob's out, literally.
Have I had a boobie out yet?
I don't think so.
I don't think I've ever told this sort of story, I don't think I've ever talked about this publicly. Maybe I have. When I go to events, when I do red carpets, when I go to the fashion shows, I'm also a mess, yeah.
As you should be, I'm like, it doesn't matter how good I feel in person, it doesn't matter how confident I feel in person. If the lighting's off, if the photographers aren't good, if I don't know, there's a weird shadow somewhere. I mean, Jared, you know, it's ruined my day.
Which one are you referring to?
It's not always the outfit, it's like it's sometimes even just like the glam, like how the makeup looks, how the hair looks in person, like Venice Day One red dress.
Which was crazy because I thought you looked amazing.
It looked so good on Instagram or no, it looked so good on iPhone, like it was whatever, but my face just looked weird.
You looked so good, but I understand it, sometimes you just can't, sometimes it just doesn't work for you.
It just didn't, no. But it's like, sometimes it comes down to bad lighting. yeah, imagine this like there's certain red carpets that always have good lighting. It's like Vanity Fair, Vanity Fair, Oscar party.
It's the Met Gala.
It's you don't like the Met lighting.
Sometimes I do, usually it's great, but Vanity Fair is like, Vanity Fair is the best.
Gorgeous. Wait, what else is good?
You haven't gone, but the Academy gala is so good.
The lighting is really good there, gorgeous, see. But these are the things that we think about because, you know, it's genuinely so frightening to, and it shouldn't be right. Like, in an ideal world, it's like, we don't care. It's like, you know, you don't look at a photo and ever think you look bad in an ideal world.
I'm so sorry that is not.
Oh my god.
That's an impossible place, not impossible. I'm not going to say that that is such a challenging place to get to. The majority of us are not going into a red carpet like, Yo, fuck it.
Like, if I look like shit, I look like shit, I don't care.
Yeah, but also there's so much effort put into those moments.
You want to be happy with what it looks like. How do you style a look that you think will translate well when it ends up on the internet? Instead of it just being in person? Because what have you found is the most effective? Is it like taking photos of it with your iPhone and seeing if it translates, like sometimes in a 2D form, it's like?
Definitely okay, that's like step one. Yeah, it has to look good in iPhone pics.
It has to look good in a shitty quality photo like it, it just has to. That's it doesn't pass that test, it's not being worn.
Done.
And so also imagining like every type of lighting it could be in. It's basically just like a huge checklist of like, okay, well, this won't look good because of this, or this won't look good because it's not. Even though in person it's snatched, if you look at it from a weird angle, it's not like there's so many things that are so specific to each look that I don't. I don't know if there's a way to categorize it all at once, but it's a lot of like canceling out.
It's basically finding something that hits all the criteria, which is super challenging.
And then even still, it's like, Eh, let's hit it.
Okay, why don't we tell them some of our horror stories? Oh, okay, let's why don't you tell the story about the long comb event at the Louvre red dress?
What happened, Jared, you tell it?
It was a beautiful dress, it was gorgeous, it was a vintage red dress that we learned was very delicate. And a lot of times you can't cut things because it's vintage, or it's a runway sample or whatever. So you have to find a way to tailor it without cutting it, which is challenging. And this specific dress was too long.
So we had to figure out a way to make it shorter, but it was so thin that it wasn't an easy dress to make shorter. So a special like hand sewn alteration that didn't cut anything had to be done. And it was like, kind of a big train, so it was all the way around, so that happened.
You tried it on, you did glam. You were doing photos beforehand, and I looked over and you're like, Uh, oh, and the whole thing had come undone, the whole hand. Sewn hem.
Yeah, that's where it started, right, yes.
That probably took hours for our sweet tailor to do, and this is just what happens like you, no shade to the tailor like that just happens when you're working.
Well, cause my shoe got caught on it and ripped the thin thread and it's just like, that's it.
That's it, that's it. We're, we're. We're doing the best we can. Yeah, so you got in the car?
Luckily, it was kind of a long drive.
Long drive.
Maybe 20, 30 minutes. Yeah, like, that's nice. And it was a bumpy ride and I just had to sit on the floor and re like, hand sew the whole thing and then finally done.
Gorgeous, we're so happy.
It took Jared, like quite literally 20 minutes to fix this, just the hem. But also like, it's like a complicated like. It's a type of maneuver that is really challenging to explain and even more challenging to understand. Like, I quite literally didn't know how Jared was sewing this in a certain way to accomplish what he wanted to accomplish. It was like, very confusing, too.
We had, like, our flashlights like shining on him, and he's like, The fucking car is mine. Jared's like sewing my skirt. It was like, insane.
It was horrible, it was horrible. And then five minutes, no, I would say three minutes before. As we were pulling up. As we were pulling up, we looked down, the center seam of your dress popped like out of nowhere. This was our worst luck yet.
No, the security of the event was trying to open the car door. And Jared's like, shut the fucking door. I was like, Jared, baby, that was so weird. He's like, shut the fucking door.
You're like, this is not that big of a deal.
No, it actually was because my entire cooter was out, because it was like, split down the fucking center, what the fuck happened? It actually wasn't that big, it was probably like, what two inches?
Yeah, but it was like, very vaginal, it was a slit.
It was quite literally on my cooter.
Yeah, like that was a that was a hole for your vagina. Yeah, anyway. So we had to close that. I'm coming in to you, so we actually should have left it.
You could have had a lot of fun. We had to close that and that was really stressful. I was like, kind of stressed before that, but then when we were like there and they were.
Like, Yeah, but thank God, you had thread from the bottom, like, Thank God, you brought your sewing kit.
Yeah.
Because imagine, like you hadn't needed it so desperately, you could have forgotten it.
I will never, I don't. I don't think I have it on me now, but I will never go anywhere without a sewing kit.
Ever again, you can't.
No, it's impossible not to.
It's impossible.
That was so that was a horrible one, that was a really bad experience, but it turned out great.
Turned out totally great. That same week. Remember one of our favorite looks that we ever did, which was that? You know, it was the Armani Privé dress? It was the, you know, it was black. It was completely beaded all over, it had sort of an argyle.
A thousand pounds?
It was I was about to say, this is where the catastrophe strikes. For this one, it looked fucking amazing.
Where was the catastrophe?
It was fully intact, it was 90 pounds. You were in hell, Jared, you know what?
What was so hard?
Maybe this is my story to tell. JARED Okay, so this dress is like, unbelievable. It looks so good, but there's a few challenging elements to it. Number one.
Oh, your breasts.
It was very much like a spaghetti strap sort of dress situation, barely there. The boobs were almost out, like we had to tailor it so much to keep the boob in the entire night, my boob was almost out.
That was fun for me.
That was so fun, I loved it. I was like, Oh my God, Jared, I'm about to absolutely have a boob fall out in front of Anna Wintour.
And in heels, though.
Also, this dress was 90 pounds, so heavy, not only is it 90 pounds.
90 pounds on a spaghetti strap.
Exactly so it's just digging into my fucking shoulders. We had to put concealer on my neck because my neck was like chafing and bloody, because it was like so heavy. Not only that, but I had bleached eyebrows.
That was actually the good part.
That was the best part, that was the good part, that was the amazing part.
Yeah, I love that we should do that again. But then whenever I would take my makeup off so scary and be in the hotel lobby.
After everybody would be like, Oh my God, because I don't wear makeup that much and off-duty, you know, whatever.
Off-duty, No eyebrow is like, Ugh, she's so sick.
What is wrong? It looks like full, like, Oh my god, that's a lot of tequila for her.
Yeah, literally.
It makes the dark circles come out, it makes the lips look extra pale. It literally looks like, Oh, she ate recalled Cantaloupe from, you know, like, from the.
Grocery store she's only eating spoiled fish.
She's super, super. She has severe food poisoning.
It's very voldemort.
It's super Voldemort, which?
Sometimes it's hot.
I totally think it's hot.
Sometimes it's not.
True.
But we? But you will be doing bleached eyebrows.
Totally, by the way, I'm like, you sold me. Because the thing about bleached eyebrows is that it gives more room for the eyeshadow look.
Yeah, that's literally the only reason, yeah, and it's sick.
It's so sick. You can, like, bring the shadow all the way up. Also, I don't know. I feel like people are more intimidated by me. With the bleached brow, they're like, Oh, she's totally.
Well, it's super scary because it's like, holy shit, is she going to stab me? is she going to hug me?
Yes.
Do I want to fuck her? do I want to be her like, what is this? or should I just run away?
No, everybody runs away, yeah.
Wait, can I ask you a question?
Yeah.
What's your favorite look?
That we've ever done? Mm-hmm, like, I have one that immediately comes to mind, What is it? It's the Margiela look.
Mm-hmm. Okay, yeah, that's a very solid one.
Like, I don't know why, I love that so much. To paint a picture for you all. It was this white bodysuit with fishnet tights over it, white heels.
With a sock.
With a sock, which I always love the sock, and ooh, I loved my second Met look though, too. That was so good, like the switch, doing like the blue gown.
Your third?
Third.
You've just gone too many times.
My eighth met look is my favorite, by the way. It's coming.
It's coming, coming soon. No, I loved the blue, and then I loved the black. Yeah, like, I love that.
We had like two looks for the Met, like one for the carpet, one for the interviews.
Can I be honest about that one, though? Yeah, but that one is one of the looks where I feel like we both. But I especially learned what works and what doesn't, because that look in person was so good.
It didn't translate as well.
It didn't translate as well as it should have, which is it's still. I thought you looked amazing.
It was gorgeous.
But in person, and in videos specifically, you were a princess.
The vibe of the look really did change on the red carpet, and it did not like that look for something more editorial. It would have had this different vibe, but it was still like, no regrets.
I loved it, the two, but that was also your genius idea. You, well, they came. Miu Miu gave us two of the same things, which was so nice, and you were like, we can't not use these.
Well, that's what it was. Yeah, so we had two versions of the same. Well, they made two colors of the gown, one in black, one in pale blue. Because they were like, we don't know what color you're going to like better. But I was having a really hard time deciding which color I liked better. And I did decide. I was like, let's use both, let's use both, because I really don't want to waste, you know, I don't want to waste. One like it just would be such a shame. So that was so fun.
That was great.
I really loved the second look because it was like, so fun to be at the Met. But in this like casual ass outfit, like I was wearing, it was like I was wearing a loafer heel and like a quarter-length skirt.
It was very you.
It was so me, but it was like, still, very, it still felt elevated enough. I mean, it was definitely more approachable, but it was fun to go casual mode. Because years in the past, it was like, Oh my god, I'm still wearing this like, very, very over-the-top, complicated gown while I'm like, doing these interviews. And so it was nice to me, like, I haven't breathed in two hours just thinking about that.
Two years.
Two years, actually, it's been two years, I'm finally exhaling, I don't know, it's just like.
Yeah, but that's valid stress.
I know we love it, we love it, we live for it.
I actually do live for it.
When it comes to being involved in fashion, I think it's crucial to appreciate it for what it is. Appreciate the art that it is, while also understanding that it's a novelty.
Yeah.
Do you think fashion has a cultural impact that is significant, like deeply significant, and do you think it impacts society, or do you think that it doesn't? And that's okay.
I think it has quite literally everything to do with what's happening in society.
I mean, but what do you think comes first? Do you think fashion imitates life and society and the world and culture, or do you think culture follows fashion?
I mean, honestly, like, fashion has so much to do with how people are represented in society. Like there's just so many examples of fashion that have, like, shaken culture, miniskirt, no longer wearing corsets.
Okay, number one my personal favorite miniskirt, Jared loves.
Oh my God, if you are what you love putting on your clients, you're a miniskirt.
A miniskirt? By the way, I have a miniskirt for you to try after this. No way. Yeah, I'll explain.
I'm coming over.
Okay, great, I'm not kidding. Love a miniskirt and also miniskirts. Crazy revolutionary that changed society.
Like women in the 19th century, 18th century were wearing like you were in full corsets and bloomers and gowns and ruffles, like you were covered. In a way that's like, shocking if you actually think about it. Like, to be in a t-shirt, even pants is revolutionary. Women were not allowed to wear pants at a certain point. But I will say it is so influential because our little sliver of time and what we currently wear is so different than even 50 years ago. Which is so different than 50 years before that, and is so different than what it will be in 10, 20, 30, 40 years.
Like, I think fashion has a deep connection to freedom and like, what is acceptable and what's allowed and rules and restrictions. So there's a lot of politics and culture deeply embedded in fashion. I'm curious about where you see yourself next fashion-wise, because there are a couple eras that I remember you being like. This is the next phase, like when you wanted to start doing minimalism, which was like, maybe a year ago.
Yeah.
Maybe a little longer. You were like, Trust me, it's minimalism, yeah, and I was like, Okay, and then we just started doing that.
Yeah, and then it was a thing, yeah, at least for us, and then currently super grunge.
Super goth, I know.
Oh my God, it's so funny. JaRED Oh my God, me I like, feel like....
Remember when I?
Okay, so I wore that black dress. Yes to....
The CFDA Awards to the CFDA Awards. And it was like this corseted black strapless dress. And I did a little Vogue interview on Instagram where I was like, I don't know. I've just been in like a more grungier phase and all the comments were like, That is not, that is not grunge, you fucking liar.
By the way.
What the fuck?
And I was like, No, no, no, no, no, I'm like, people, people, people.
It's grunge to me, I'm like, No, no, no.
I'm like, this is so polished and so proper, but it's a little bit.
It was a little messy.
There was a little teeny kiss of like a darker, grungier feeling to it. Yeah, I think grunge wasn't the right word.
I think you're feeling dark.
Holy shit, did the fashion kids get mad?
Yeah, you got slapped in the face, but it's fine.
It's totally fine, but, by the way, humble me, yeah.
Teach me.
Teach me, love me.
Touch me.
So okay to answer your question, what my next phase is? Because, by the way, we need to have this conversation anyway.
We're just doing work.
Yeah, we're working, man. Yeah, we're on the clock. This is a fucking meeting, okay?
We're on the clock. I'm in like a really weird phase right now, like I have a few things happening in my head. Talk to me, okay, number one, it's like, definitely like vampire core for me.
Explain but like, not full vampire, but like, I don't know, you know, I've been loving, like, it's black, white, gray. yeah, it's silver jewelry.
It's like, you know, super like suiting, like silhouettes, like, you know, like a little vest, a little, you know. My favorite black bag is like, sort of almost briefcase-esque. It's like wearing like a deep lip liner, not covering my under-eye bags.
It's like a little Wednesday, Adam T.
Straight black hair, like my hair, is really dark right now, so like straight hair, it's like, you know, square-toe loafer. It's like a trench coat. I'm there.
But like, weirdly, something clicked a few weeks ago and I was like, No, I want to be a Parisian artist stereotype.
And that is.
I'm kind of tapping into it right now. I was going to say, that's this fully, yeah.
Like, Beret, love a beret right now, really. I'll get over it in about two days.
Are you actually? Yes? I was just looking at a beret the other day and thinking, how horrible, No, Jared.
Can I, Can I?
I'll show you the one and you're going to understand.
Okay, yeah, because, well, berets have to be very simple, yeah, but it also can't be like too like, oh, this is a beret if you wear, in my opinion, if you wear a beret properly.
Yeah, how would you wear a beret?
And it's like sitting like, nicely, like, kind of back on the head, like, it's more like just this little thing. It doesn't read as like French Painter Halloween costume, it just reads as like this cute, sort of more floppy thing that's happening.
Yep, I have a pic of me in a beret that, like, fucking sucks really. Yeah, but it has to be done right because you can't.
You can't fuck with a beret.
No, but it's actually a really cool vibe. The beret is cool, but it has to be understated. okay, like a black beret is ideal, of course.
Red, maybe, but that's a little too on the nose.
Totally.
But it's like, you know, horizontal stripes like this, yeah, cardigans, it's like super like, very much primary colors, it's like classic Kelly green, mm-hmm.
The most classic red you've ever seen? mm-hmm. the most classic like denim blue. Yeah, it's like a perfect mustard yellow, like French's yellow, mustard yellow.
It's like, that's the palette, it's like French artist vibe. Yeah, that's another thing that's happening in my brain right now that I'm loving, mm-hmm.
I love that, yeah.
Okay.
What do you want to see me wear next, like, what do you want my next era to be fashion-wise?
Your next era? Fashion-wise? I mean, I love the dark. I think it would be fun to merge that and feminine a little bit. Mm-hmm. Because, like when you did that, when you went to Gaultier, the all pink outfit.
Mm-hmm. that mixed with, like Tom Brown or acne, those looks that we did. mm-hmm. some merge between those two, yeah.
I would be obsessed with interesting something that's like a little more feminine and fragile, but like, still really like dark.
Yeah, that's exciting, I love that.
I would love that.
That's also a very challenging balance and I tend to lean more. I'm always like, I am going full tuxedo right now. mm-hmm. I definitely do tend to lean more towards masculine silhouettes, totally.
Like, that's just who I am. Yeah, I also think that's my comfort zone.
Well, I think it's like comfort zone, but for a reason, it works really well.
It does work for me, yeah, it works for my personality, but also more than anything, it's more comfortable. So like, at an event, I'm like, Eh, I feel the rush, because I'm like, I don't.
Because I'm like, I don't have these tiny little spaghetti straps. Yeah, digging into my neck and my boobs aren't out. But also, like, that's a fucking vibe, too.
Yeah, but you are.
And I like that too.
I have a mood board that I'll show you actually.
Wait, I can't wait.
It's gonna be gorgeous.
It's so amazing.
It's the best thing I've ever seen.
Jared That one was so good.
I haven't seen it.
That was so good.
I really like this like, high, high, high fashion editorial vibe for you that we've been exploring more. But I think it would be fun to sort of like, merge a couple vibes. Yeah, so it's not like, this time we're going goth and this time we're going, sure.
You know what I mean, sure, I think it maybe speaks to, like your previous conversation about through lines. And like, maybe figuring out a way to make it feel like one girl, even if it's just for like.
I love this, I'm getting what you're saying.
It's not making much sense and it's not really that clear.
No, but I get it. Where it's like, OK, we're not like, we're not so on the nose. Yes, with a theme. It's not like, Oh, we're going full vampire mode today, or like, Oh, we're going like, full just Freakazoid alien today, totally.
It's like, No, no, no, we're actually making something new. Yes, this is like Alien went to the supermarket, but whoa, why are her boobs out? But also whoa?
She's so preppy, but also she's so preppy. Hold on a minute. Is that my mother?
That is what I want, right?
Like something almost like giving a new feeling that still makes sense. That's an interesting challenge that I would love to do with you.
And specifically, I am really excited about, Like, Princess the End, Goth.
Love, We're about to have a princess.
We're so far apart on what we're seeing for the future.
I'm like, OK, so I'm a little French artist, I'm Picasso, I'm only wearing archived Picasso's clothes. I found them, I found them ultimately at in the museum, and I ultimately stole them.
Now I'm wearing them to Vanity Fair Oscar party.
What do you think?
Well, I'm super drunk in the clothes.
And it's a big problem, OK, So we have a lot of different vibes to achieve.
Yeah, but that's also like, what makes it fun? Like, it's also who knows what, what else is going to happen.
Absolutely, and there's a lot of time and there's a lot of looks.
So much frickin time. I'm trying to think if we have any other fun stories, we leave them off with.
There has to be one.
What's our final fun story?
Like, we haven't said anything.
You cut my underwear out at the Met, you sewed my dress. We actually know we're done, cool, we'll let it be.
I have a lot of shit I have to tell you in the car, like, I'm actually sick of recording this because this is a lot of shit.
It's fine.
I love you Jared. thank you for coming on my show.
I love you so much.
You're my soulmate.
You're mine.
OK, this is getting weird.
v1.0.0.260408-1-a910ba6_os