Jason Derulo

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman.

Hello there.

Hi. Hi. How are you?

I'm great.

Oh, man. I got to say, this interview brought about some fun exploration in the fact check. I just want to throw that out there.

Yeah. Yeah.

We kind of go all over the place. We really do, but we also learned some juicy deets about people's finances and their love lives. Today's guest is Jason Derulo. He is a singer and a songwriter. He has many albums that are very, very successful.

He is. And his rules are not... I mean, some are not obvious but, like, make sense. And then some are surprising.

Uh-huh. And fun.

Yeah. Very fun.

He was wonderful. Please enjoy Jason Derulo. He's an armchair expert. He's an armchair expert.

Two.

Two? What's his name?

Jason, Jason King.

He's just so cute.

Thank you, Thank you.

Coffee's for you, if you want it.

Oh, thanks. What kind is that?

It's called a cream top. It's just espresso, water, and cream on top.

Sugar?

Uh, there's probably some sugar in there. You want a normal cup of coffee?

We also, yeah, we have Keurig, if you want regular coffee.

That'd be amazing, but that looks incredible.

It is incredible.

I'm just trying to be on my shit, you know?

He got me addicted to them. Damn, Robert Downey Jr. was in here. Rob got him one. He made a big stink about it I can't have this cow's milk And then he drank it and he loved it.

Doing intermittent fasting most days And on Fridays I just fast the whole 24. Oh, wow.

And how long have you been doing that?

Two months now.

And what have the results been?

My skin has been better. I used to have to take Accutane. I haven't been dealing with any of the acne problems that I had before. That's great. So that's a major one for me.

Less bloated.

Yeah,

Energy better?

Energy is not better.

I hear that shit.

I hear that shit. People say that shit, But, I mean, let's be honest.

Yeah, you're tired.

You're out of fuel. Well, there's no calories.

Yeah, yeah, The coffee helps, though.

It's an appetite suppressant.

It works really well. The other thing is kind of positive and kind of negative Is drinking On Friday when I'm fasting for 24 hours. Sometimes I'll just go crazy and do like a 48. After that, if I have a drink Like, it hits me really, really hard, Yeah, And it hits my stomach really hard. This is like kind of poison.

Because nothing else is in there, distracting you.

And normally I wouldn't feel the poison Right, But now my body is kind of like Oh, what the fuck is this?

It's very pure and fragile. Yeah,

I don't know if I love that, though, No.

Listen to me. I'm an ex-fucking crack addict. I used to smoke two packs a day. I only ate at 7-Eleven the Chili Dogs. Yeah, I felt amazing every day, Uh-huh.

But the fact that your body Is that sensitive to all those things now I mean it's kind of amazing. Yeah, Your body's kind of like That's trash, That's trash, And that's trash As opposed to like when you live normally. It's like all good.

Exactly.

Well, and you're moving from one Dopamine hit to the next. So it's like just as you're feeling shitty From the lunch. You like have a big ass coffee And then you get another 20 out of that, And then you have a snack And that bumps you up And you're just on this endless hamster wheel Trying to jack up the dopamine.

Have you been hearing a lot about fasting As of late?

In my circle, The peak fasting thing Was like two years ago. Really? It was in rich west LA.

Scene.

Hard.

All of my social media, All I see is fasting, Fasting, Fasting. Really? I made it a religious thing on Friday. It used to just be I won't eat meat on Fridays. I've done that my whole life With my family, Yeah.

Yeah, Whites of your eyes clearer?

100%. Yeah,

Isn't that crazy?

Is that the drinking, though?

Well, that's part of it. Yeah, Yeah, for sure.

The whites of my eyes Were also amazing when I was vegan. Oh Okay.

I track that on myself a lot. If I eat like shit, Then I feel like shit, Then I'm getting a rash And then I'll just check in With the whites of my eyes. I'm like oh yeah, No, that's fucking hazy And dingy looking.

You're really in tune. I love this.

Oh, the whole podcast Could be about his food, His workout routine.

I love that. Well, I'm old, So you can float For a long time. I think I'm what 14 years. Yeah, you have some time. No, but this is the moment For you.

It's the truth. You can look at your industry As well And see how people age. I rather have the longevity And the quality of life In my later years Than just party it all out now And enjoy it now. I could've gone one or two ways, You know. I could've let loose And was like Oh, I've done great in my life, Let me chill now, Or you can have that Burning fire inside, And that's what I'm always Trying to do is take it To the next level, And, honestly, It's that that keeps The trajectory going In the positive direction.

Yes,

As my stomach rumbles, This is like.

I'm still fucking hungry.

If you die on mic After your sales pitch For fasting, You just fucking collapse dead.

Now that would be a tragedy. I'll be dead and mad as hell. Yeah right.

I did all that.

You mean to tell me I could have some pizza And some burgers?

Yeah,

But you just said something That feels intrinsically true, Which is I'm either Getting better Or I'm getting worse. There is no neutral for me Facts, There's no homeostasis for me. I just have to be improving, Or I know I'll be Just devolving.

What doesn't grow Dies right. So if it's not thriving, Then it's just gonna go In the opposite direction, And I think it's just The exact same truth for us.

Yeah, Yeah, Okay, so you're from A suburb of Miami, Miramar?

Yes, My beginning, Beginning years, Was in a city called Carroll City, And then we moved up To East Miramar.

With George and Wheezy? Moving on up.

That's what you just referenced.

George and Wheezy. They moved on up.

Yeah, and then we moved up Even more. When I was in high school, My mom and my dad Did a really good job Of pressing forward. How old were they?

When they left Haiti?

They were really young. They went to college In Florida.

Oh, okay, And your mom went to law school?

Yeah, my mom went to law school Later in life In her thirties.

Okay, They got here As adults, though?

I would say Sixteen.

Okay,

But they met in Haiti Or they met here?

No, they met in college.

Oh, they did Okay.

They went to a community college In Miami, Florida. My dad saw my mom And was like She's the one, And it hasn't stopped. Wow, Actually it did stop. It took a pause. Oh, Which is not very normal, right?

I love those stories.

Me too.

I've never heard one of them.

I forget who. Someone has married The same person three times, Really? Yeah, there's people That have even gone back A third round. Wow, I love that. How long were they separated?

Two, three years Really long time.

Yeah,

And then I guess You live apart And you realize Life was better With each other.

I think there's that. And then also I was with a girl for nine years We broke up. The first year I would have explained Every reason we broke up Was her fault. Then that all dissipates And I don't really feel That way anymore. And then I just Started realizing I did so many things That were wrong And I just found myself Calling her randomly And apologizing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was already out of the house. A lot of arguments And turmoil Can come from money fights, And when I was a kid, My parents would fight All the time about money. In the back of my mind, I'd be like I'm gonna fix this. I thought that I would be The savior Of the problems that they had. And even with the money, There were still money problems.

Listen, Isn't that crazy? So crazy.

It doesn't fix it. I am currently In a like Two month spiral Of just completely Out of hand Financial insecurity.

Explain that to me.

This new fear Of I'm going to Somehow be broke Or I'm going to Lose everything. Podcasting is going to be over And there's an actor strike And I'm not going to act. It's so Foundationless, It's preposterous.

It's literally impossible.

It's not.

It is impossible.

It's not related To reality. It's from growing up, poor It is. I just can't shake it. So like to your point. You watch your parents Fight about money And you think Money's the problem, But money's not the problem.

It's not. It's way deeper rooted.

And I think we proceed With a fantasy that That thing will fix What's going on with us, And we work relentlessly To get it. And then we get it And we're like Why aren't I magically fixed?

I was supposed to be fixed.

Right?

You're so right. I mean I remember As a kid Having this Lamborghini On my wall And I was like, One day I'm going to Get that Lamborghini. Well, I got that damn Lamborghini And I drove that thing Like two, three times And I was like

Now what? You know what I'm saying?

Yes, And then that helped me To realize Where my true happiness lied, And it was not in things. I've had so many things In my life, And things do not Make you happy. What makes you happy Is being able to do The things that you love. What money is, though, Is freedom, Yes, Right?

Security

Security Those things. But it's not happiness. Happiness really lies In what your passions are And where your love lies.

Mike Tyson has the best quote. He says Anyone who tells me That a lot of money Will make you happy. What I know about them Is they've never had A lot of money.

That's fact. I think I've seen that, Yeah.

That cuts right to the quick. But I imagine If your parents moved To the States From Haiti. They're ambitious, They're go-getters, They're adventurers High dopamine, probably Passionate, Probably a little bit mercurial. Yep, They were hungry. obviously They came here for opportunity And they chased it down.

It's a typical American dream story. My mom's eldest brother Was the first one To come to America And he worked a couple of jobs And brought each sibling Over one by one. There was 15 of them. Oh wow.

What a sweetheart.

Yeah, So he started it And obviously, when Another sibling was able To come over, They were able to join forces.

He had enough For a baseball team. Yeah,

I had to make it up And they just really Really just started From the bottom, Where I think that I started from the bottom. It was a totally Different bottom. Bottoms are all relative. You know, we all think That we start from Some sad story. There's always A sadder story out there, But this one Has a happy ending And the whole family Was able to come over, And this is really Really the land of opportunity, And I love this country For that.

Were you. I'm going to speak For Monica. So Monica's parents Are from India. Wasn't trying to get Kids over to the house To see how Indian They were? Did you have any shame About the Haitian-ness Of your house?

I didn't. In Florida There's a lot of Haitians, But there was like A battle between Haitians and Jamaicans, Where I'm from. So on every Haitian flag day, I knew that I was going to be In some sort of fight.

Oh whoa.

Not a fight That I started.

But I knew.

I was going to be in it.

With some Jamaicans.

With some Jamaicans. It was the weirdest Thing in the world.

So it was a cultural area. Diverse, it sounds like.

Very, very diverse

Okay, Would the Jamaicans Say Haitians be Haitian? Because I just thought of that. That would be good.

Haitians be.

Like Be Haitians, Be Haitian, I don't know. There's something there. I think that was like There's a good pun there. Three Taylor Swift Haitians. be Haitian, I don't know.

Yeah, but I grew up in a very, Very Haitian household, So all of my meals I spoke Creole. in my house, When I was a kid, I only spoke French. I didn't speak any English. Really? Lost the French, Kept the Creole And then Learned to speak English.

Do you ever sing in Creole?

I haven't before.

Why not? Yeah, you should. Good for you that My favorite thing is when Artists incorporate Whatever their thing is. Like T.I. He's bringing in these words That he clearly was saying In Atlanta.

No, you're totally right. I definitely should.

Do you want Rob to drop a beat? Rob, can you?

Can you hook it up? Please, one time Put some compo for me.

Did you have siblings Growing up?

Yeah, one brother, One sister.

Older or younger?

Both older.

Both older, So you're the baby Of the family.

Yeah man.

I tried to follow My brother around Everywhere that he went. It would make him upset.

Same How much older Is your brother? Five years older? Same, That's a tough gap for us. It is a tough gap. Big, big physical difference.

In the middle there.

Oh, no, She was the eldest, Oh.

Then that's worse.

Yeah, She was the parent.

Yeah, No tolerance, These older sisters.

Nah, for real, for real, Yeah. and we grew up In a very small house Where all three Shared one bedroom, Until my sister Was really fed up one day And she made The makeshift bedroom For her in the living room Loft kind of thing. Then she had Her own space With this wooden door. That wasn't a door at all, But it was very humble. I never thought to myself Are we broke?

You've been training For this intermittent Fasting thing Exactly.

I definitely was.

Muscle memory. You get interested In music, really really young. Yeah, you write Your first song at 8. You go to school In a gifted and talented program, Like an arts school maybe.

Yeah,

How do we begin Our interest And how do we express that? How do we get put Into that trajectory?

I saw Michael Jackson For the first time And I was like wow, This is what I want to do. I told my mom And she was like Yeah, yeah, baby, I know.

Everyone wants to be Michael Jackson baby. Exactly, Welcome to planet earth.

Literally, I just became obsessed And would just watch His videos And try to do His dance moves And sing the songs, But every single day, For hours and hours And hours and hours, Until finally My mother realized That I was different. This wasn't like A normal kind of obsession. And then That's when She put me into This summer camp That had music in it And I was like Oh, this is a lot of fun. She talked to the teacher And was like How's he doing? And the teacher was like He has a gift, He seems like He has something special.

So are you so grateful That you got put In that pipeline, As opposed to Going to like Traditional high school, Where other things Would have been valued?

Yeah, There are other musicians That are successful, That don't know How to read music Or sing classical music, But I think it's amazing To know. I think it's amazing To have information, And I think I have A lot more information Musically than the Average artist. Right, I just have so much From different genres, From genres that are Way older than we are. I think knowledge is power. Whether it shows up Within the music, I don't know, But I enjoy knowing That I can whip out An opera band any time.

That's a good party trick.

I'd like to see that Yeah, Rob, drop a violin, Drop some strings, Some choker, But also just Being in an environment Where to be good at. that Is valued. When you did theater In my high school In Detroit, It wasn't a good look. No one was thriving. That was in the Theater program.

But I also think It depends on How good you are. Anyone loves An amazing talent.

Well, that's true.

So if you're in theater And you're just like in there And you're just sitting in With the pack, I mean you're not gonna Get patted on the back, But I think that's With everything, right?

No, auto shop. you do fine. All you gotta do is Smoke cigarettes right On the break. You don't have to actually Be able to uninstall. I was gonna say

You gotta take that back Cause. even if you're Fitting in with the pack As an athlete, You're still good.

Yeah, people, leave you alone.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, true.

So what happened Out of high school? You start writing music For a lot of people, But I wanna know How you get from The performing arts school To that.

Yeah, it was weird man. So right after high school I got my first Writing placement And I was like Oh, this is cool, Like I can make money. Writing songs for people.

How on earth Did you figure that out?

Miami is kind of like A bucket of crabs. You know, everybody's Trying to pull each other down To try to get up the ladder, To work with a producer. It was tough. So I had to be like Oh, I'm a songwriter, Pose as a songwriter And then I'll be allowed In these sessions. Oddly enough, I just started to get In these sessions And different producers Were working with me, Cause I was saying I was a songwriter When I was just saying I was an artist.

I have to imagine, The quote artists Outnumber the songwriters By a hundred to one, As far as people Who are pursuing that Definitely.

So I was able To get in these rooms. My intention was To just take these songs That I was writing In these rooms And then just put it On a demo And then get a deal somehow.

Yeah, yeah.

But then, like They started to get placed, That just started Like a whole new journey.

And is the money good? No,

It's literally nothing. Okay, Cause I was working with People that were Taking advantage. You know, I was A young songwriter, So I won't mention Who those people are. That's how it works. People are still around today.

Was it in the city?

It was 70th and Broadway Called AMDA.

That's like a reputable one.

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

You like that one?

I know about it. Yeah,

American Music and Dramatic Arts.

Yeah, Academy.

Academy in America.

Okay, you know.

Well, I did my research on it. Yeah.

So I went there. I was still writing songs For people.

Were you lonely? You left Miami. You knew everyone. Now you're in New York By yourself. It's a big, scary city.

I went there Scared. I'm moving out Of my mom's house. This is crazy.

Yeah, who's gonna cook for me? Yeah, exactly.

Cause I didn't learn How to do any of those things. So I was too busy Trying to write songs All the damn time To learn how to Actually live a life. So I get there. I don't have very much money. I had as many ramens As you could possibly have, And then I figured out That there's a fruit stand, That I can get a banana For a quarter.

Yeah, So I thought And then you're saving On toilet paper.

I did Yeah.

That's right.

Medical costs For when you think You have appendicitis.

So don't go on A banana diet. Yeah, I had great years there. I learned Another level of hard work Being there, Trying to write songs And do school.

At any moment During that experience Were you thinking Well, maybe I'll do Musical theater, Maybe I'll try To be on Broadway.

I did. I used to go on auditions. It was part of the curriculum.

Oh, to be auditioning And try to be working.

Yeah, to audition, But I went crazy with it And I just enjoyed it so much And it became like An obsession to me Because I kept getting no's.

Yeah,

And I was just like Damn, Like I would get a callback And then I'd be like Just bring you up To bring you down.

Yeah, callbacks Are always worse. Yeah, it is.

It's just like You think it's a chance, Especially if you get Two callbacks. It's like Yes, This is my favorite one, guys.

You start letting hope in. Yeah, Which is dangerous.

Oh, my god.

Yeah, The mind just goes like Okay, I'll get a callback, I'm gonna get this Once I'm in that, Then I'm gonna have an agent. You build an entire life On this one moment in time.

For sure. So I was going on these auditions Until I actually booked A role on Broadway, Brent Benny.

No kidding. Wow, What year is this?

2007. Wait, you've already won.

Showtime at the Apollo.

Same time period.

Okay, Things are happening Really quick. Have you ever watched that show? Uh-uh, no, Okay.

You never saw Showtime at Apollo? No, It's incredible.

Wow, You know, when you tank there. If you eat shit, They let it rip. Yep, They boo you off the stage. It is the highest stakes Performance of your life.

Yeah, there's no show like it. I mean They applaud people that boo. Yes, I went on that show. I won the show.

Won the finale Wow.

I thought that was gonna be my big break, But again, it was a callback. Right, Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was still writing songs That entire time period. It's one that I'll never forget, Because I always felt like I was on the brink of something. It just kept tearing me down, So many doors shut in my face When I finally got somebody To tell me yes, Then I declined it.

You turned down, Rhett.

Yeah, If I do this, I'm gonna be a Broadway performer For the rest of my life. And though that is cool, I don't think that's my path. I wanna sing the songs that I write. I wanna do original material, And that is not that world. And I knew, if I did that I would've been as successful at it And I would've just stayed there.

I got the yes, It's like what you need To feel like.

Some validation That you're on the right track.

Masochistic? Yeah,

So you turn that down And then how do you end up? You get signed by J.R.Rodham He's huge right. I didn't know. I saw a picture of him And I was like This is not who I was expecting. He's a South African dude.

Yeah, They saw me on Myspace. Okay, now we're talking.

Wow New media.

Yes,

So they wanted to sign me As a songwriter Publishing deal And I fly to Los Angeles. I meet with him And in the first session That we have, We do six songs That evening.

That you had brought with you.

No, That we created.

No kidding.

And then we were like Oh, this is a great connection. And he was like You should be an artist.

Oh.

And I was like.

I am. That's what I've been.

Fucking, waiting for. That's what I've been saying My whole life.

Ugh.

So he signed me As an artist as well. So he discovered Sean Kingston, And Sean Kingston was His big artist, Like claim to fame. Yeah, At that time, But he had produced songs For everybody And their mom. But that's really What I was there for Was to kind of Write for Sean.

Oh, okay.

And my first song. What you say Was a song that I actually Wrote for Sean Kingston, And it ended up Being my song Because his label Turned that song down. They turned it down.

And this is your first single. It sells five million Copies. Immediately, It's number one On Billboard. Yeah, Top 100, First song out, Wow.

That's unbelievable. Yeah Equivalent to being Struck by lightning Seven times Yeah.

What did it feel like? Were you like? It feels like What I thought It would feel like?

No, The worry setting.

How you gonna match that?

Yes, How do I Not become a one hit wonder? Because that's what Is on people's mind When you first Shot the gate, Especially at that time.

Yep, I feel like It was happening In the zeitgeist.

It was a single world, All of a sudden, Exactly.

Yeah,

Ringtone. It was a ringtone world.

Yeah, Yeah, I'm like Napster time.

Very similar time now, But way crazier. It's way more One hit wonders now Than ever. I think, Oh really.

Because of TikTok.

Yeah, because of social media I mean you can get a song going And then make a hit by mistake. Right, Look at Gangnam Style.

Do you remember How absolutely ubiquitous And never ending That song was?

Oh my god. I mean until this day, If you play that song, People are going nuts, Yeah.

One of the biggest songs In the history of

Yeah, I heard He's worth like Three billion dollars. No.

Oh, my god.

Good for him. No, I actually did hear That he's worth A crazy amount though. Oh really Yeah, yeah, Because I mean he's massive In other areas In Asia.

Yeah, yeah, He's from Korea, I think maybe, And he was going to school here For music And he wrote that song. Oh, really, I think that's the story. I hope he doesn't sue me. He apparently has enough money For a really good legal team To come after me. Okay, so that happens, And understandably You get a little panicked.

Yeah, I was like I gotta put my head down And figure out What the next song is. But at that point I walked into the office To the Warner Brothers With Whatcha Say And Riding Solo. I hadn't written In my head yet, So In My Head, Became my second song That we wrote While Whatcha Say Was still on the rise.

Okay, This happens in racing right, Where dudes That are great Second place drivers. They're used to Following someone For much of their career And then, when they Finally get the right car, It's a different skill Leading the race, Not following anyone. So it's like Wanting, Wanting. Wanting Is one thing You know well. Holding onto Something you have Is completely foreign To you.

Definitely Right.

And it just Creates all this fear Of like Well, now I have Something to lose. Before I had Nothing to lose. All I had was this Dream to maybe Accomplish, But now I have Something that can go away. That's what's so tricky About. success Is like Is it ever even Fucking pleasant?

Yeah, Go into survival mode, But I think It's just trying to Push the envelope Forward and Better yourself And try to get to The next level. That keeps you Successful.

So in your book, Sing your name out loud. Fifteen rules for living Your dream. What one did we learn The hardest so far? This would be, I guess, Two thousand Nine.

The majority of them Have been learned. What hasn't been learned Is the power of Your circle And knowing Who your team is. So everything Up to that point Was pretty much Just me rolling On my sleeves. I mean you can't Do it all by yourself.

Right, you're a One man show. First of all, Why do you Need more people? And then, How do you get Comfortable, trusting Other people?

So I was Lucky because I was born into My hive, Because the rule Is called Respect the hive, And it's basically Talking about the People that are Around you And how you Pull from their Energy and they Pull from yours, And you should be Able to learn And grow from Everybody in your Circle. But especially Having gone to College, I was away From my family. I was away From everything That I was used to. So at this point It was just Me, me, me, me, me. It wasn't until I got back To Miami From college That me and My cousins And my brother, Who have always been The closest people To me in the world, We got back together And it clicked up And figured out How to get a studio.

Well, they believed In you. clearly They did. Yeah, That's incredibly Powerful. And then back to like Yeah, the success. I think in retrospect You realize Oh no, That's the best part.

Yeah The journey.

I mean it's so cliche, But it's so true. When you end up Looking back, It's like Well, my funnest times Were at the groundlings, Performing with a bunch Of other broke comedians, Yeah, And praying people Came to the show. That was actually The most fun fun.

Isn't that crazy, though It's the absolute truth. My favorite times are The times I can remember Where I used to grind, Staying up till Three in the morning, Writing a song That I didn't think Had any potential at all. You know, when I heard The riding solo beat, I was like Ah, this is kind of trash. And my friend, It was like Three, four. in the morning He was like Ah, let's write one more.

I love that, though This doesn't have To be perfect. I just have to Push through And do something.

100% Stuts.

Yeah, You'll never do Anything perfect, You'll never do Anything flawless. You just gotta March forward.

For sure.

Exactly.

Stay tuned For more.

Armchair Expert.

If you dare.

Did you have any betrayals?

Oh, betrayals.

Yes. Great question.

Jamie Foxx.

Jamie Foxx. Give us a name. Betrayals.

No, no, no.

So there was a production team out of Miami. They put a lot of time and energy into me, and I put a lot of time and energy into them. And they were some people that started off with the same situation, like, let me write songs for you. And then they kind of wanted to sign me as an artist. That just never panned out.

Yeah. I think when people feel left behind, the worst version of themselves comes out as well.

Yeah, I can understand.

I was sued by one of my best friends for a very similar thing. Really? Yeah. Damn.

A lot of people we have in here have stories like that. And I find it interesting, because it is sad if you put yourself in the other person's shoes. Like, who wants to be the person that is suing one of their friends? Yeah.

It's not great. On your deathbed, would you have rather been sued by your best friend or tried to sue your best friend? I'd choose the former.

Same. Same.

It's all about what you're going to live with. All right. So you release your second album, Future History. You're supposed to go on tour. And right before tour starts, you break your back.

I don't know if 50 is the number, but we're training just for stamina.

Before the tour started, you wanted to be on your game and be able to put on a good show.

This was what the coach was doing. Okay.

You had a stamina coach.

No, he was a tumbling coach. Okay. Gymnast. You know, psycho guy.

They live to be hurt, gymnasts.

Yeah, but I never tried to sue the guy or anything. I think his heart was in the right place, but his brain was somewhere else.

Okay, so, really quick. Had you already known how to do a backflip, or did he teach you? Yes. Okay. When did you start doing backflips?

It's a back tuck, even.

Yes, back tuck.

No hands.

No hands.

I used to be able to do one, too.

Well, you're very impressive. I've applauded you many times. I can't anymore. I can't anymore. Two-time state champion.

He had cheerleading.

High flyer. High flyer.

Oh, sick. I could see that for sure.

Well, you know.

The small. Yeah.

It's good to throw around.

Okay. So how long had you been doing backflips?

I only had been doing the back tuck for about a year. I was constantly trying to learn new moves, constantly trying to learn new acrobatics. That part of my life is over.

The intention for doing it on stage?

Yes. I was literally taking on a new move, like every month, doing more and more and more.

Building the repertoire. Yeah. Okay. So you're on, let's say, 38 out of 50, or we don't know what the number is, but you've done a tremendous amount of them?

Yes.

And what happens?

I'm going through them and I'm knocking them out of the park, doing the best that I've ever done. And then he's like, let's do it on the hard floor, because I want you to feel what it's going to be like on stage.

After 38 of them.

Yes. Yeah, let's finish.

No, let's start there and finish on the pad. Yeah. When we're tired.

Or into the pit. Anywhere. Yeah.

In the pool. So I feel myself slip. I bail. And you're never supposed to bail.

Yeah.

For the lay person, that's not a Tumblr. like Monica. What is bailing would be like, you go up, you start that rotation, you go, oh, fuck. And then what do you do? Do you try to turn to your side or something?

So you panic and you kind of just stop and you like try to catch yourself as opposed to like just committing to the mistake.

You think you can stop it before the point of no return.

Exactly.

But you're already past the point of no return.

And once your feet leave, you're past the point.

Yeah.

You just have to go.

Yeah. We can't change our mind at this point. So, midair, you're like, fuck. And then you just drop like a rock onto your back.

And then I land on my head. So I actually broke my C2 vertebrae. So consider it more your neck.

Oh. Wait, wait, wait. Okay. So then I'm confused. I thought you did both those things.

Just the C2 vertebrae. Which is higher up.

Yes. That's scary. Yeah. Yeah.

So that's the hangman's break. So it's the same bone you break when you get hung.

Oh, yeah. Paralysis.

Yeah. Or worse.

Did you hear a pop?

I did. I thought, oh, fuck. Oh, fuck. Oh, fuck. And then I was like, okay, I can move my eyes.

You thought you just hurt yourself. Yeah.

I thought I hurt myself really bad.

Did this Navy SEAL coach of yours want you to get up and you got to rip one right away? Get on the horse. He's like, Jason.

He slapped me on the ass and said, walk it off. Walk it off. Oh, my God. I'm just playing. I'm just playing.

Well, he should be sued then.

No. So you're never supposed to get up when you have a neck injury. So I got up and I'm holding my head and I get to the car and I'm like, mom, I think I hurt my neck a little bit. We should probably just go to the hospital. Just make sure.

You're trying not to scare her. Oh, my God.

But I'm in excruciating pain. It's like hurting like a motherfucker. Yeah. So every single bump seemed like hell on earth. And then, when I get to the hospital, they sit me in the waiting room.

Error number two.

Anyway, so finally get to the doctor and we take the x-rays and he's like, this is serious. You broke your C2.. You're going to be out for almost a year. Oh, my God. I was like, what kind of recovery is this?

That's 1. 18th of my life.

You know what I'm saying? Like, I had to cancel my tour. It was like my biggest tour at that time.

11 cities.

Was it only 11?.

Well, that's what it says.

We read all kinds of crap.

You're probably right, though.

I mean, I thought you broke your back twice, so that could show how reliable I am as a source.

But yeah, I just got off the road with Lady Gaga, but this was like my headlining, my own thing.

What a bummer. In Europe, was it?

Yeah. It was a European tour.

It was a European tour.

So did you have to wear like a braid?

Did you have a really sexy neck brace? Yes.

I ended up getting a sexy neck brace later.

Bedazzled or anything? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I had this designer make this crazy neck brace that had black diamond, things that weren't diamond. The cubic zirconium.

I'm shocked that didn't take off as a style, like a bunch of kids on the dance floor with like bedazzled neck braces. That could have really taken off.

That could have been something.

It could have.

Yeah, because the Kendrick Lamar face covering.

Well, we all had to wear the face covering, so that's why that made sense.

But now it's something different. now. That's not COVID related at this point.

Oh, it wasn't?

Well, it was then. I think not at the Super Bowl. Really? No, I think that was his style. I don't know.

Were you so demoralized?

Yeah. I can't believe that shit happened to me, honestly. Yeah. Because nobody breaks their neck, right? Right.

That's not a thing. And also, you get a taste of something. You're like, oh, this is going to happen. Of course not. No.

Yeah. True.

He's got his jaw wired shut. He's probably thinking, I can't do this.

You know, it builds a different kind of character and it builds a totally different monster inside you when you can't do something for so long. Because at that moment in my life is when I was the most focused. When the world shuts off, so to speak, in my life is when I make the biggest gains. So I wasn't able to take a shower myself. I wasn't able to tie my own shoes.

What is the hardest part of your routine to keep? I love a routine, too. But going to bed on time is my Achilles. It happened two nights ago. It was a Jake Paul documentary.

I struggle with falling asleep on time as well. But I wouldn't say that's like my hardest one. The hardest part of my routine is probably diet.

That's very relatable. Yeah.

Yeah, man, because that's one of the joys of life. Food is like top three.

I think it's also compounded by culturally. for you. I think that first generation, they're still like, they miss the food from home. They're cooking the food from home a lot. I think it has a bigger significance, too.

Yeah. And then you get used to eating with the people that you love and care about. And it becomes the place in the time where you bond with the people you care about most. Yeah.

So what's interesting, and I agree with you. So I, for much of my career, was a writer. And so I had all these routines. When I had a script due, I would go to this hotel and I'd do everything the same. And weirdly, eating is a big part of it for me, because I can't ever get full.

Which you don't have much control over.

Exactly. I got chills because it's so crazy that some people have very similar kind of isms, especially really successful people. Because before a show, the longer I've held out before eating, the better that I feel. I cannot go on stage with a full stomach, no matter what.

Yeah, you would suck, right?

Yeah. I feel like I'm sharper. I feel like I'm better.

Yeah. Another thing I have to do is I have to give myself permission to do shitty work. I'm writing from this time in the morning till this time in the afternoon, period. You're allowed to write something shitty. You just have to keep those fingers moving.

Something good will come out of it.

And I'll rewrite the next day, but I can get kind of overcome with this desire for it to be great.

100%. Yes, I do give myself permission to be shitty. There's a lot of songs where I felt came out amazing when I felt like I wasn't at my best. And I used to have a rule when I was younger, if I'm too tired, I'm just going to call it a night, until I wrote fucking smash hits when I was tired. And then after that, I was like, what the fuck are you talking about?

You're just up at bat the entire time. Eventually you're going to fucking hit a ball. He's got to take a catrillion pitches.

Exactly.

Can we actually talk about stamina for a second? Because we moved past it, because you broke your neck. But the point of him making you do 50 tucks.

Go ahead and say it.

I went to Taylor last night. It's three and a half hours.

What is it? 45 songs or something?

47 songs, I think. And she is moving the whole time.

And has like 12 outfit changes? Yes.

And I know she is singing, but if she was mouthing the whole concert. It's still phenomenal. I can't believe it. How are people doing this?

Let me tell you something about this girl.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, look what the fuck Taylor is doing. She humbled me quick.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Watching someone work their ass off is very humbling.

And she's so giving and she deserves everything that has come to her, because now I think she's like the biggest grossing touring artist of all time.

You can say she has three billion, unlike the other.

Yeah, she's so dope, and it couldn't have happened to a sweeter human being.

I think it's the genre to theorize on why she's underrated, because I agree with you. They're not looking at her like prints or something, right? Yeah. But I think somehow it's the genre. Writing off, that she has a young female audience, I think there's like some light misogyny happening.

Yeah. I mean, you talk about the songwriting, the songwriting is amazing. She puts on a fantastic show. She invests in her show. It's like a real spectacle.

It's so thought out. She is a marketing genius. That's for sure. I mean, a true genius. The secrets that are placed within the songs for the people who know the thing and the community gets together.

Yeah. I can remember one time she was like, let's try something. I'm like, what? She's like, let me post one of your songs and let's see what happens.

Like, oh yeah, let's see.

Sure. So she posted one of my songs and instantly that thing started to just climb up on iTunes. I was like, Taylor, this is crazy. It was just kind of like, this is my favorite song right now.