Lucy Hale: Sober Doesn't Mean Boring [VIDEO]

What is up Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call her Daddy.

LUcy Hale, welcome to call her daddy. Thank you. I am so happy that I'm finally meeting you.

This is happening, we're here, we're here. I was just saying, Your room is exactly how I thought it would make me feel, oh, cozy.

Cozy, you also just told me that your mom is a fan of call her daddy, so I'm immediately like, bow down, mama Hale.

Hi Julie, Yeah. I was talking to her last night and she was just like, How's your jet lag? what are you doing tomorrow? I was like, I'm actually doing a podcast and she goes, Which one?

I love that for you, and I love that for me because a mother liking the show is the highest compliment. So hello Julie, thank you.

You're doing so many things, right?

I want to go back to the beginning. Because I feel like, obviously we've seen you on television. But maybe there are people that are like, Where are you from? I don't know you.

So who are you?

Who are you, Lucy? Let's get into it.

I'm still figuring it out, yeah.

So obviously you moved to L.A. super young, but you grew up in Memphis, Tennessee.

I did.

Can you talk to me about what were you like as a child?

I lived in Tennessee till I was 15 and kind of split a lot of my time with my mom, who was in Memphis, and my dad, who lived in Mississippi.

Can you talk a little bit about that of, like, feeling misunderstood? Give me an example?

I think, you know whether I was misunderstood or not, who really knows? But in my little, sensitive child brain, I was like, I felt like an alien. I felt like an alien amongst my friends. I felt like an alien in my family sometimes. And I can't really pinpoint the moment in my life where that all started happening.

It's so interesting you say that, because when I started dating my now fiance, I grew up in Pennsylvania. I looked at actors like gods and I thought that they had the best lives in the world. And my fiance being a producer. I started to talk to him about the industry more, and he was like, I have a lot of empathy for actors. Because what people don't see on the other side of it is we fall in love with you and your character of who you play on a certain TV show or whatever it is, or in a movie. But what you guys are dealing with is you're handed a script that you're told to get into character of this person and you can really lean in. But there's a lack of autonomy of actually having control in a lot of these ways.

It is weird, it is weird. And then also being a part of something that lasted for so long and being a part of that. While I was figuring out who I was, I was like, I don't even am I this character? or am I me? And then seeing people fall in love with this experience and fall in love with that character. I'm like, Well, maybe I should be more like this character because I don't really know who I am. And I can only obviously speak from my experience. But I do find that a lot of actors feel similar in the sense of like. I think we fall into this line of work because we're kind of filling some sort of void.

I was going to say, it's almost like you can hide even more behind it and also go down a trail of. Like, I can imagine you're so young and you're like, Is this my personality? am I like this? Do I like this type of man?

I was even dressing like the character off camera, and of course, I'm like, I started that when I was 20 years old, so.

But still, I would be fucked up being like, first. I also want to know, because obviously Memphis is so wildly different than Los Angeles. And so before you move, at what age did your parents get divorced?

I think I was four and I have very vivid memories of the conversation and somehow knowing at that age that it was a good thing.

Why did you feel that way? Did you see them fight a lot?

Yeah, okay, yeah, it wasn't very calm, I think there was a lot of chaos in the house and-.

As we get older, we start to realize, like, even when you were saying like I was introverted, like I felt misunderstood. As I've gone through therapy, I'm like, so much of why we are the way we are. It's before even peer dynamics. It's like, what was happening in your house?

Well, don't they say that you are who you are between the ages of two and five? Yeah, well, holy crap, right?

We could do a whole episode on that.

And undoing it, I'm in like the process of undoing being a people pleaser. Because it's so hard for my brain to accept that I can be nice and set boundaries. Because all of my 20s, I was like, you know what, if I'm the nicest one, people will like me more. And it's like, Well, that's just not, that's complete abandonment of self.

So you're just like, I'll just take it and I'll just be quiet on that or whatever. But then you start to be like, Okay, wait, why am I getting taken advantage of, like all the time? And it's difficult to, like, start to do something and go against something that, like, you have done your whole life the opposite way, yeah.

I think at a young age, I just realized I just wanted people to like me. I always felt like life would be fine if everyone was happy and people just accepted me. And I'm like, God, that's sad that at a young age I felt those things.

But even you saying, like, when you're in your house, being like, if I'm the peacemaker, maybe things will calm down. I think that's like it can weave into then, like your peer dynamics of like, you're just keep the peace. Everybody like me, like, I just want to, like, be here, be quiet.

It's the quiet thing.

But I do think it's really relatable. Especially, I think it's women of like, wanting to be noticed and seen and heard, and then also feeling deeply insecure when you are being seen and heard. Because we're basically taught to doubt ourselves, like, it's different with men, like as girls, it's like, be polite, sit down, be ladylike, be like, ugh, it's like, Am I doing it right?

I vividly, vividly remember a moment in my life, I was upstairs, I was with my karaoke machine. I think I was like singing something from Pink. And I remember thinking, my life will be different, my life is going to be different. I don't belong here.

Don't you think that's like a normal human instinct, though, that like when you're in such a situation? Like? I felt that way with my Catholic school upbringing of, like, so Catholic. Every Sunday we had to go to church, we had to do this. When you're in like a system that is like forcing you to, like, be a specific way. Your brain can't help but be like, What if I just went that way? But you can't help but be like, Is this it?

I'm just completely agree. I'm just laughing because I love Kelly Clarkson and there's that song, Breakaway. I was like, that was the moment I'm like, we're getting out of here, baby, and we did.

Dude, I'm dying thinking of you up in your bedroom, like and breakaway.

Also, I thought I was going to be Kelly Clarkson 2.

Back to Lucy.

Anyway, back to you, okay?

So you say you moved to L.A. when you are 15?

15 Okay.

And what I read, your mom had to take out her retirement money to get you guys there. Did you feel like excited, guilty, pressure?

I'm not going to lie, I felt zero guilt, but only because I knew it was going to work out. I think as time went on, I did feel a little guilt of what my mom actually sacrificed. And I often am like, that was truly unhinged that we drove across the country. And you, you know, she was a nurse and she would work nights, she would drive me to my auditions during the day and sleep in the car.

Wow.

Yeah, she's amazing. My mom moved back to Tennessee when I was 17 because by then I was doing little jobs here and there. Enough to, you know, go spend my money at Forever 21 and have a shitty apartment. But things started moving like relatively quickly when we got here. Enough for my mom to be like, okay? But it's also really interesting because when I look back at that experience, it, um, instead of, like, if I'm completely transparent, instead of thinking of all the amazing things which I can now, like, hold so much gratitude and space for that. I look back on that. And I think of all the things that were happening behind the scenes and how I was feeling. And the things I was dealing with and things I was running away from. And the pressure of being on this show that was so adored by people.

When I hear you saying that, too, I feel like, which? I I think this is like the beauty of people. And I think it's gotten so much better in the past few years of. Like, finally, people starting to actually speak about things that they experienced. Like, I think about Rob Pattinson and Kristen Stewart for so long. Not wanting to talk about Twilight and people like. Because when you have these like beloved projects that we as viewers are just like, I love you, we love it. This is perfect.

Mm-hmm.

Talking, yes.

So I will say that I didn't graduate high school, and so that's a little context of, you know, I was emancipated at 17. It's taken me many years, many breakdowns, many experiences to realize what I was actually feeling in those moments. I think any young female, no matter where you are, what you do, you feel pressure, you want to look a certain way.

Yeah.

I was not in a good place and and so I, you know, I was dealing with the eating stuff and the food stuff. Which ultimately is is just feeling completely out of control. Once again. Would have dealt with this no matter what I did for a living. But it's kind of, you know, I chose an industry that, like, really heightened all of that for me.

That's interesting. You're like, that's the one thing that you knew you were in full control of, even if it was unhealthy and hurting you. You were like, I....

It gave me this false sense of security and I held onto that for a really long time.

Can you talk to me about that? Because I think that the dynamic of having these beautiful women on set, you yourself included, we all compare ourselves. Like, I look back to myself in high school and like the jealousy of like the girl that I was like, Oh my god, she's so beautiful. I want to look like her. And like, it's just how we are conditioned as women of like, who's the prettiest in the group?

I think at the time I would have told myself like, we're not competitive and of course, I'm only speaking for me. Of course, there was, of course, I felt the pressure not to be prettier or to look better, but to like, keep up. Because I did look at Shay and Troy and Sasha and Janelle and Ashley, and I was like, What the fuck, these are angels amongst me? And like, Do I fit into that?

Of course, like, obviously.

But like, there was always a lot of love, I feel like, but but yeah, there was a lot of nights where I'm like, okay, I don't know. I don't know how to keep up with this, I don't know if I want to keep up with this. And it, like, would eat away at me and I don't know how. I've actually never talked to them the other girls about this.

It's so fucking crazy and it's not like we've all been conditioned that way, and it's like we can all thrive.

We can all thrive and look amazing, and be amazing and be kind and root for each other. There's enough room. I just like, that sort of mindset of like, there's not enough for everyone, is like, the scarcity mindset is very. And I think there was an element of that on the show because realistically, like there were magazine covers, they were only choosing one. And it's that's just human nature.

You were there, yeah.

But it's also that's high school, too, you know?

That was my high school. It's so crazy I it gets. I get frustrated when I'm not saying people have to be fighting. But like you can tell, it's like there's no fucking way. On every cast that everyone gets along like, sure, we can glamorize like, but we love our show, it's our favorite show.

And I think some of the gals really did connect and bond in a big way. And I and I, I've always found it tricky to connect with people because I like to connect. I like. This is why we're vibing, because we're talking about, like the things I love to talk about and I, I just always. Not only on that show, I've found it trickier to find the people that I want to connect with. And so I would kind of just sit in my little corner and like, live in my own world and tell myself, you know that I was misunderstood.

Well, it's it's very similar to what you described as your childhood. Like, exactly, you're sitting there feeling misunderstood. You're very in your own head, you're alone, you're emotional. But you're like, kind of a loner, you're like. I had maybe like not as many friends, and I was kind of like, introverted.

I think that was it. Yeah, I think I've had to accept that, I just so desperately. When I was younger, I wanted to be have a it wasn't even that I wanted to look differently.

No, I get what you're saying about, like, which is so hard. And again, I think a lot of women can relate to that of like, having something in your head that you believe about yourself. And if you asked your friend or your family member, they'd be like, What are you talking about? Yeah, we know like, we, you're so smart, or you're so talented, or you're so that, what are you talking?

And that's what you're broadcasting to the world. Energetically. I would make myself feel very small and that my ideas didn't matter, because if I walked into a room, everyone else's ideas were more important than mine. And it had to. I think it had to do with this, this idea of not feeling smart or feeling like people didn't care. Okay, okay.

Let's talk about you have talked about your journey with sobriety before, and I kind of want to. Just. I've never talked about alcoholism on call, her daddy, I've never talked about struggling with alcohol. I've never talked about. I'm the first.

You're the first, I'm the sober cherry popper.

You are popping it right now, Lucy.

In the womb, No, I'm just kidding.

My mother gave me a little taste of tequila.

Okay, okay, the first time ever that I tried alcohol, yeah, or like the first.

Maybe when you started drinking?

I mean, I will say, the first time I ever had alcohol. I think it's important to talk about because I was probably 12, 13 and I was in Florida on a vacation. I was like wearing a crop top, halter top thing for some reason. I remember the shirt I was wearing and we drank green apple pucker, which is a chaser. I remember my very first experience with alcohol was exactly how it was.

First of all, thank you for sharing that, because again, it almost goes back to like.

There was no way in hell I was going to openly talk about this. I was so deeply ashamed of myself and my choices and the person I was. When I drank, there was no. It is actually mind blowing. Like, if you would have told me at that age, you know? 10 years from now, you're going to be doing a podcast and you're going to be talking about being sober and alcoholism. I would have said, You are fucking insane.

That's what I was going to say, Can you take me to like? What would a typical night or day of drinking be like for you back then?

So it usually would start, and I was because I, because my job was very important to me. I think maybe only. I never let it come interfere with that, because, like, I knew, if I lost that, I would not be okay.

I know what you were up to last night.

And so I think it was maybe clear to people, people aren't dumb. That's the thing about, like, addicts, alcoholics, you think you're being so secretive. And I can, I feel it in a room, I can, I know, I know, and like, in a non-judgy way. I'm just like, Oh, I think they're struggling, you know?

Isn't that so interesting? And then you probably walked in being like, no one knows, and maybe they're like, Lucy, you reek.

Your eyes are bloodshot or did you sleep? But okay, a night of, you know, it kind of looked. That was a scary thing is it was a wild card. And I was always like, Well, this could be a really fun, because some nights don't. I also like, in hindsight, I look back. I had some great memories, drinking, super fun, but you never knew what you were going to get, so some nights would be, you know, great.

You can cry.

I just think something that really, something that really I struggled with a lot growing up is like, I remember people, people, some people. I worked with, some people in my friend group that just thought I was a wild child and thought I just liked to party. And like, Ooh, it's going to be. Or like people wouldn't invite me places because they knew how it would get. And I just want to say that anyone who behaves that way, it's clearly coming from a place of pain.

I'm in pain.

And I also remember vividly, I will not name names, but I remember vividly hearing someone who was in kind of my inner circle at the time saying, God. Sober people are so boring, and I was like, you know what, sober people? At the time, I was like, Sober people are boring. Am I boring? And I also want to say to anyone who might be struggling, I remember Miley Cyrus said one time, she's like, you can say a lot of things about me.

It's really powerful because I number one, I feel really. I have seen it too. Like, I've had people in my life that I'm like, Oh my God, like, I know you're struggling, but it is hard to be with someone that is blacking out that is a liability like.

And you bond over that totally. There is like, a there's. There should be a whole conversation about the people you bond with in that way when you're partying.

Yeah, and so I remember like I had never, I had never done drugs because I'd played soccer my whole life, like, I'd never done that. And I remember getting into a phase in New York where, like, I tried drugs and like, I would be at an after party. And there were drugs on the table. And I, and it was also because I'm drinking, if I was sober, I'm not doing the drugs.

I'm the same way.

Right, yeah, all of a sudden you find yourself, and I wonder if if you're comfortable talking about that of like, how you can also slip into, like when you're drunk.

Anything goes, baby, and anything you're like, is that cocaine?

Is that a cigarette? is that a what are we doing?

What, what is yeah? and what is who? who is that? yeah?

And you have no idea where it even came from, girl, and you're not going to be smart, you're just going to take it, girl.

I It's so interesting, cause I, yes, just what you said. Like, I would have never. I would have never fought to do cocaine if I weren't drinking. But but I think alcohol was just this gateway into being whoever I wanted to be. I didn't have to be sweet, I could be sloppy, and, yeah, I could do cocaine if I wanted to, you know what?

Well, did you ever have, like, a moment where it was like, you're in the hospital and you wake up?

Yeah, I, you know, I was never, I never wanted to die. But like the way I was acting, sometimes I'm like, Wow, it's a. I would wake up and be like, Well, it's kind of a miracle, I'm here here. Um, I did have moments where I would have to go to the hospital and like, get IVs.

Yeah.

Um, but when I decided to get sober at 32, I was like, Okay, we have some options. I can keep doing what I've been doing for the last 15 years.

Do it, yeah.

And I truly, there's no other way to say it other than it was like a spiritual intervention. Like, I literally felt the presence of God, like actually telling me, we're not, you don't have another chance. Like, I truly felt it in my bones that like this is it.

Yeah.

What are we going to do with it? And I remember I was flying back from Austin after a whirlwind New Year's Eve trip. Like shaking. I was eating a gross ham sandwich, like trying to get food in my stomach because I hadn't eaten in like two days. I had my dog in my lap. I was like, Okay, we're going to do it.

Yeah, dude, yeah, that's what I think is, you're so right.

Yeah.

Like, she's great and you're like, this is something that you have to wake up every day and make the choice to not have a drink.

To not have a drink. And it's made me realize how much I was escaping in other ways, too. Your girl will do anything to avoid an uncomfortable feeling, like, let's go, I'm on Amazon. I do need this new blender. I already have 10 blenders. You know what I'm saying?

Can we talk about that for a minute? Yeah, because something that really hit me and I, Oh, this is like, so dark, but I remember.-.

I've never loved you more, okay?

So I don't know if I've ever said this on the podcast. But I was in this relationship where I was in it for the wrong reasons. It was so off, like, just in ways like emotionally abusive and just like, really not healthy, and I was staying for the wrong reasons. But I remember there would be nights that I knew he would want to have sex and I did not want to have sex with him. So before he would come home, I would go into the kitchen and take shots by myself, and I would drink so that I could have sex with him.

God, and this is definitely. I've talked about my sobriety story a little, but I've never talked about that element of it. I think it's a really important thing to talk about because I think a lot of people can relate to that, whether you're an alcoholic or not.

I was going to say.

I've been taken advantage of, uh, yes, I was the person drinking, but I there are certain things I don't quite remember.

It's like the most amazing thing in the world.

And we obviously live in a society that shames us for that, when ultimately that's kind of the thing that connects us all.

But I think something that is difficult when you and I know you're like, still working on, like unpacking everything that happened. But and that's when I'm like, Oh, like, we need, we do, as women especially need to get better. Like you sitting here and just not being able to fully say and then like, you were taken advantage of.

Yeah, it's so interesting how my brain will try to make excuses for for things, and is it right or wrong, I don't, I don't know, but it happened. And I think, basically what I'm trying to say is like, I don't think these people are bad people.

Yeah.

Remember, I was talking about the trunk and like the emotional, I think, Wow, we'll be doing a lot of journaling tonight. ALEX No, it's good, it's good, I think.

I appreciate you talking about it.

As women and as men, like, there is so much shame attached to the type of people we've been with. Were we fucked up? Like, what actually did happen? Was it my fault?

Dude, it's well. What I appreciate about you is like, there's a level of like, survival. You have to get to where you're like, you have to move on. You have to look back at a point of your life and be like, Whoa, I'm so happy. I'm like, not doing those certain things to myself anymore. But then there's also a moment where you have to be like, our body remembers things.

Have you read that book? The body keeps the score. Yes, I haven't read it, but.

It's fucking crazy. I'm sure there are moments I have had them in my twenties where I woke up and this is so sad. I remember waking up and being like, Did I have sex last night? and actually physically like, trying to like, feel in my vagina, like, Did I have sex?

I know I can't even tell you, I can't even tell you how many times I've been like, huh? And then I'd make excuses. I'd be like, Well, I've kind of always wanted to sleep with him, so I guess it's okay.

Even I think something that's really relatable I bet a lot of people are going to connect with. Also is like, you talked about how when you would drink, you would have this, you would become the person you thought you wanted to be. You're outgoing, you're loud, I can be sassy, I can fuck like.

I'm even willing to say that sex drunk is not enjoyable. sex with strangers is not enjoyable.

Facts, facts. And you can't make that decision as easily when you are fucked up.

No, I'm like, everyone can touch my body. They're like, let's go.

Girl, guy, all, let's go. I just appreciate you going there with me and us, unpacking the themes of just being like, Oh, that's interesting next.

I mean, that's a testament to you, you're so good at what you do and you really create with all of your guests. Like, you know the right questions to ask, but you do it all with like, a very, very warm.

Well, because it's like, it's like when people are like, so talk to me about your fucking drinking problem, you're like, okay.

So here you are, like, literally, like, who'd you fuck, whore? You're like, Oh my God.

People have said shit to me about, like, the craziest shit. I'm like, that's rude, thank you.

Um, okay, no, this is great, okay, relationships.

Your relationships, yeah.

I had many relationships, I, I don't think I've. I've not had a relationship really since I've been sober. I dated, but I. But throughout all the you know, teenager to to now. Like my last long-term committed relationship was like six years ago and it ended. I mean, we were very, we were not compatible with each other at all. But um, it ended because of my behavior. And like, a lack of him, not really understanding and not knowing how to be there for me. We're now him and I are now friends, and it's it's nice to God. It's the best feeling to, like, reconnect with people in a different place in your life, and I'm finding that's happening a lot to me lately.

When you were in these type of relationships, did a lot of your partners also drink heavily or were you hiding it?

So my very first boyfriend ever that I had for three and a half years when I was a teenager.

Me problems.

You're the problem, you're the problem.

Bye babe.

Cut to, You were right. you were right. Fuck um, my boyfriend. After that, God, we were. It was the most passionate relationship of my life and the most toxic.

Can you share some of those habits?

Uh, day drinking, drinking a bottle of wine before bed every night. He, Uh. At that point I had never done a drug. And that was like when I was like, Oh, I kind of like how that feels.

It's so crazy. I had one of those where it was like he was definitely into drugs. And there's like a thrill element of, like the the instability. Like this person does not have their shit together. And it's like, every day is fucking different. And it's this like, exciting rush. And it's also what you don't realize is it's like uncomfortable fear. That, like, you are thinking is like attraction, but you're also like, this is, you're my body telling me like, I shouldn't be doing this.

Yeah, and it's, it's exactly that. Like, my nervous system, the whole time I was with him was like, I did not regulate my nervous system for a full year. But I also loved that because I told you, I loved chaos.

Um, you don't have to answer this. But I'm just thinking again, cause we're having, we're kind of tying things. Like, when you look at your life, you, you know, I think sometimes in a positive way, you can be like, Oh, that helps, it make more sense. But, like, a lot of how we are is because of our family. Like, does anyone in your family struggle with alcohol? So okay.

Okay, yeah.

I mean, it's, it's. I think it's just helpful to say, cause sometimes people feel really fucking alone and it's like, Girl, you're not alone, this isn't. Also, I don't know if it helps to be like, it's not your fault. This is like a genetic thing that, like, Yeah, that's.

But it's also interesting to me that, you know, my sister doesn't struggle with alcohol, but we grew up in the same home. Obviously, our lives are very different, but it's just interesting how people latch onto something. And I think if I would have found cocaine at 16, that would have been my thing, but alcohol was my bestie for a long time.

When you said that you went to rehab, when you got back, talk to me about, like, reintegrating after rehab. And then like, when did you have another drink?

I'm laughing, cause I so before I went into rehab, I was talking to this guy that I was obsessed with. I stayed in rehab. I got out. The day I got home, he flew in to see me.

And then when did you relapse, three months after?

Yeah, it was always typically it was like three months after I went to Vegas for a, of course.

I relapsed, of course.

Relapsed in Vegas for a award show. Because what would happen was I'd be sober for a long time and think, you know what, I think I have a. I think I have a really good grip on my alcoholism now, and I think if I just have rosé, I think I'm going to be fine. And you know what?

Yeah, when you talked about that, like New Year's moment, when you got on the plane, was there something that happened that was like rock bottom?

I mean, in hindsight, like a lot of things that happened in my life would have been labeled as worse. But I think I was at a point in my life. For this New Year's trip where I knew my drinking career was coming to an end. And I almost, I think, subconsciously, I knew that this New Year's was going to be the last hurrah.

Yeah.

And so, you know, I. So whatever happened in Austin, like, something resonated. It was this feeling of like, maybe let's do, maybe let's try it a different way.

You did it, I thank you for sharing that. I literally got chills. Because it's like, we, we as humans are just judgmental, like we either compare ourselves, but like. Or we'll judge people because it's actually an insecurity of ours, or we'll judge because we don't understand something. I appreciate you sharing all this because it's so fucking hard to talk about something that you have any amount of shame over. And also something that, like, you've as much as. Maybe people in your life have talked to you about it or told you, or you've broken up with boyfriends about it, like, it's on you.

But that is the key to life is like, the second you start taking accountability of. I'll just say it from my point of view, the second. I was like, Okay, why am I in this weird fucking hotel room a day and a half later? why am I sad? why am I angry?

I just love that we're talking about that. It's like, even if people are listening, and it's like, it's not alcohol. It's just like your life, whether you're unhappy wherever the fuck you are, if you're unhappy about something like it really is. It sounds so fucking simple, but it's hard not to look around and try to blame others or blame your circumstances. It's like there is something so powerful about you sitting on that plane ride and just being like, Yeah, it's got to end, yeah.

No, but life is not easy, and it's not supposed to be easy. That is what we signed up for as human beings. Yeah, being a human is hard, it's hard to navigate.

Can you talk to me about? Obviously, like, recovery is not linear, like it's an ongoing process. Mm-hmm. In these past two years, trying essentially like you're finding a new version of yourself. Yeah, because for so long, like you were going off of like certain habits and routines and a lifestyle, and now it's all different.

I mean, certainly not linear, and there is no right or wrong way to heal.

Changing careers? I'm, yeah, who knows what would I have done, fuck?

But I, you know, just like, yeah, getting crystal clear on, like the friendship. For me, it's like when you heal, you expect other people to heal with you. But like, you're on a different path, you're on a different journey, and so certain things don't fit your life anymore. Yeah, and so obviously, like the places I was going and day to day, that shifted a little. Mm-hmm.

Girl fuck.

Boundaries, boundaries, you know. I was talking about being at peace and how that felt uncomfortable. That's really what a lot of what my life has looked like. It's like, Okay, am I, am I bored or is this just really nice?

I'm just a simple girl.

I'm a simple gal from Tennessee, but, you know, no. But what I mean by that is, I find joy in simple moments. I want to simplify my life.

Yeah, I love that. You just said, you know, like, it's okay, like, is it boredom? or is it just like you're just be still?

Shit to work on.

Because there's nothing better than when you are, like, so super cozy with yourself. And you actually would a hundred times over choose yourself to be alone. And like, not go out and not write.

It's literally the best I'm at the point now where I, you know, I'm single. I don't know when this is airing, but as of now, I'm single and I have to. Are you going to get a boyfriend in the next two weeks with me? I don't know.

Fuck, I was going to say.

But my point in saying all that was like, I love my alone time, I love my life, I love my schedule. But I also do, you know, I do want a partner and I want a family. And I do have to put myself outside of my comfort zone. Because it is, it does feel so cozy and safe in this like little world I've built for myself. But he ain't going to come knocking on my front door, maybe he will.

I was about to say, I love how you're like, When is this coming out? I'm like, Are you? Do you have someone in mind? I'm like, is he-?

I do have someone in mind, but we're not dating, okay?

You've gone on dates.

We're supposed to, we'll see, we'll see, and now that I've said it out loud,-.

It's happening well, I don't know.

We'll see.

So you've texted?

A little.

Okay, and you're going to potentially go-.

But this is me putting expectations on something, No, but it's this is what I do all the time. I'm like, Okay, how's he going to be as a dad? Like, it's like, No, just like, calm down.

I get it.

But I also think that I'm at the point now like, I don't want to casually date, I'm looking for something specific. Okay, not everyone is looking for that.

Do you have any like dating rules for yourself? That you're like, this has to be like? is there anything on the list where you're like this is like-?

Don't be a raging alcoholic, okay?

We're not settling and break away because we're not going to settle, okay, we don't need an album. What I love about what you just said, though, is like, how great you're now at a place in your life where you are so clear on the things that you need for yourself.

I know, I know immediately.

Yeah.

Usually.

But before you probably, and as we all go through that, where you're like, you've almost become the partner that walks in the door, you become the guy that's the drug addict. You're like, Oh, I guess I'll just like, yeah. And when we go, we all go through that where we're so much more like. We are so much more susceptible to just becoming that relationship and being independent of. Like, this is what I bring.

Also, and people talk about this all the time. A lot of people are filling a void with the person they choose or the relationship they're in. Because it's a lot of people settling, or a lot of people trying to figure out their shit within a relationship, and that's not saying you can't, you can grow as a couple, yeah.

You know?

And I wasn't always that way, right so.

Do you have a type? Yes, physically? no.

Although my friends would be like, you love tall, dark and handsome, I love a musician.

Bad Boys Lucy.

But I don't know if that's a lifestyle that's good for me. I don't know, but there's something about musically inclined men that really get my heart rate.

I get it, just turn on Spotify and listen to a song like, I feel like that girl, the touring and the drinking, it's a lot.

It's a lot.

It's a lot.

But I do think I would love to end up with a creative of some sort. I don't really set rules for, like, I'm not saying, oh, he has to be in the industry, or he has to not be in the industry. I think, like, having that level of understanding, it would be nice to be with someone who gets it.

Yeah.

But type I'm more of a vibe gal I need. I have a very like, a specific sense of humor, not needing to be in the spotlight, but quick. I like going deep with people you can keep up with me in conversations.

I was talking to someone about this the other day and they were like, the dates I've gone on. I'm getting to the point where I'm like, I'm just going to stop. I've been asking you questions the whole time, not in like a weird, interrogative way, but like, I'm asking you questions, being respectful. Are you curious about me? Yeah, do you even remember my last name?

Yeah, like, where are we at? I think it's a universal thing, and men, I love you, I do.

I agree.

I'm like, Oh, to feel seen and heard.

Have you had any bad dates recently?

I've never had any nightmare dates ever, but I definitely had one recently where I just knew immediately I was like, Oh, no.

No, wait, why?

Because it felt like a rehearsed date. Oh, it felt like he was saying things that I think I had verbatim said in an interview before.

Like, just stop, that's the crazy thing.

Am I crazy because I'm like, this is really, this is very bizarre.

You're not crazy, because what's crazy is social media. Everyone has it at this point.

I'm like, I know what your mom's, sister's dog is doing right now, like, let's keep it real.

And even if you're not going to bring that up, you're not going to pretend you don't know what the dude does.

It's so silly, but I think it's like a way of them being like, I don't care what you do. I'm a normal guy who wants you for all the right reasons. I'm like, Yeah, but that is showing me that you want me for all the wrong reasons if you're being phony.

Like, imagine how much harder it is for the guy to be like, Oh, I respect your career, I respect your career. This is so cool. Like, obviously, I don't know if I've watched everything you're in. Like, what was your favorite project?

And I was like, This is what you're engaged now.

No, but this was like, right before I got engaged, you had success, yes, and I was like, Oh, like, I have a podcast, you're like the number one most successful podcast.

Thumbs down dude.

And I'm like, Oh, I have a podcast, He's like, Oh, like, what do you talk about? and I'm like,....

Meanwhile, you go look at his search history, he's listed in every episode. I just, Yeah.

No, no, I agree. I think that in this dating world with social media, it's better to be up front. You don't have to say, like, oh, yeah, and go too deep of what you've stalked. But there's a level of like, let's keep it fucking real.

Let's be transparent.

Because then, if not, you're like, what are you hiding?

Yeah, exactly.

Okay, if your fans and my fans can take one thing from this interview, what do you want them to take from this fuck? Where do we begin?

Fuck, okay.

Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.

Yeah, fuck, that's a lot.

Okay, I just think for me, I didn't really have any women at least that I had found that were going through similar experiences. And I know that a lot of the things we talked about today were heavy, heavy hitters and make a lot of people uncomfortable. Like a lot of people will not and do not want to talk to me about my sobriety or sexual encounters, or trauma or whatever.

Yeah.

Yeah, and so that to me, just like, wraps up. What I'm trying to say is that life is tricky, baby, but you're not alone and things might not make sense. But they will eventually. Because I felt that for so much of my life, where I'm like, what the fuck is happening?

God, I cannot thank you enough for coming on. Because, like you said, I think it's so important to have conversations. That may make people uncomfortable because it's not what we're saying that should make them uncomfortable. It's because, in some way, we've been raised to think, like, showing any weakness and talking about things that you've gone through is a sign of weakness. And it's completely the opposite.

It's the complete opposite.

Yeah, you're so fucking strong for sitting here, knowing millions of people are going to listen to this and watch you talking about something that so many people will relate to. And I think it's just the beginning of people actually realizing like, damn if she can just talk about this and overcome this and also recognize like, it's a struggle. It's okay if you're relapsing, if you're like, it's all, it is all going to happen, but by talking about shit, that's the most powerful thing.

And the most beautiful thing is, and also thank you for this was so fun.

It was right.

Yeah, and you just really made me feel safe and it was very easy to open up about these things. Because I don't always share this with everyone. And I do think it is maybe a part of my journey now to talk about these things.

Lucy, thank you so much for coming on call her daddy.

Thank you.

Ah.