#2052 - Shane Dorian
2023-10-26 02:21:28
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What's up, Chet? How are you? How are you, brother? I'm doing great, man. Good to see you.
Thanks, good to see you too.
What's the latest and your greatest?
Lots of stuff, man. I feel like, I don't know, I feel like normally I don't have that much. that's the latest and greatest, but yeah, a lot's been happening. I've been crazy busy, but all good stuff, so nothing to complain about.
What's been happening? What's crazy busy?
Um, let's see, in the last three months, four months, been to Mexico twice, El Salvador, once, California, four or five times, Indonesia for a month, Tahiti, France, Mexico.
Damn, son. Yeah. World traveler. A lot. What have you been doing?
A lot of surfing.
Yeah?
A lot of surfing.
How's your knee?
It's great.
Is it 100%?
It's amazing. It's not 100%, but it's, I never thought it would be this good again, honestly. It's really, really good. I have slight range of motion. that's not as good as the other, which is, you know, to be expected, but it's great.
I surf with no brace. I snowboard with no brace. I go hunting all the time with no brace. I never, I never, I never really think about it, which is amazing.
For people who don't know, you were in a snowboarding accident. Yeah. And you fucking demolished your knee.
Yeah. I ran right into a tree, wrapped my knee around a tree.
Always my fear when I see people skiing and snowboarding. in some, I quit skiing because of an accident. I fucked my knee up and that cracked my shin bone. I got an insufficiency fracture in the top of my shin bone. Yeah.
I was like, that's it. I'm done. I'm done with this.
Yeah. I love snowboarding. I'm not giving it up. So I'm, uh, but yeah, like to answer your, to answer your question, I'm, I'm really happy with the way my knee healed up. So I, yeah, it was a shitty experience of that whole process.
How long did it take you to fully heal?
Probably 18 months. Yeah.
Wow.
But I was really, really, um, I, you know, I really followed the pro, the, I, I followed all the physical therapy and all the protocol. And I, I, uh, you know, I did every single thing I could to, to help it out. Like you, like you rang me and said, let's do the, let's get some stem cells in your knee. So, like I came twice here, um, guys at Ways to Well helped me out with that. And I had great results from that.
I actually felt the, like the difference, which is amazing, but it healed great.
So you were saying that was the turning point, like the Ways to Well, like that you were, that this is what, one of the things that really pushed you over the edge, where it really felt like it was healing.
Yeah. I mean, I went to a great surgeon and he does these things all the time with, you know, great success. And I have a lot of friends who've had that exact same surgery from him. So I was really confident.
What was the extent of the injury?
I got full repairs of my ACL and my MCL. They both basically blew off. Yeah. So they, so they took my patellar tendon and split it in thirds and then built new ligaments out of that.
So the MCL and the ACL out of patellar tendon?
Yeah.
How much does that compromise the patellar tendon?
It doesn't really.
Because I had a patellar tendon graft on my left knee and it took forever to heal. Where, on my right knee, I had a cadaver, which only took like six months.
Yeah. I think, I think using a cadaver, you, you heal much faster. Yeah. But yeah.
Why did they decide to do that with you?
Just because, like that specific injury that I had, like I, like, I spoke to my surgeon, really good guy named Warren Kramer out of California. And he said, look, we have a couple of different options here you can choose. And he just kind of ran me through and he said, if it was my knee, I would use the patellar tendon. He goes, it'll take longer to heal, but you'll be rock solid. And, like the way he explained is, is, the patellar tendon is pretty wide and really, really strong.
So, even though you're taking a third from one side and a third from the other side, it doesn't really compromise the integrity of the actual tendon. And it's weird the way your body is able to turn that tendon into ligaments. That's strange. It is. So they take a tendon and then they make ligaments.
Well, they, like they, like, they put it in place, you know, where you, where you used to have these ligaments, and your body accepts it over time as ligament.
Yeah. Well, with the cadaver thing, one of the weird things is that your body uses it as a scaffolding and then re-proliferates it with its own tissue. So it's not like you have this cadaver tendon inside of you. Gotcha. Because I have an Achilles tendon.
That's what it started out with. That was, that's what replaced my ACL in my right knee.
Oh, wow.
Some dead dude, he took his Achilles tendon, because your Achilles is 150% stronger, apparently, once they do that, than the original ACL. And then they just screw that sucker in place. And dude, I was good to go quick. I went to a party without a brace, five days later, after surgery.
I was out. I was, I was in bad shape for a long time.
Yeah, I was with my left knee. Yeah. My left knee was in agony for a long time. Because they have to saw the fucking piece out of the bone and the piece of the bone in your shin and screw the both of them in place. I couldn't go on my knees.
I couldn't do anything. If I had to kneel down, I couldn't do anything for like a year.
The pain from waking up after surgery was so brutal. I had no idea how bad it was going to be. It sucked.
It's intense.
Really bad.
Yeah, it was, for me, it was one of the only times I ever took painkillers. And the painkillers made me feel so stupid. It was, I, whatever, I can't remember. it was Percocets or Vicodin. Can't remember, but I remember I sold it to some dude at the pool hall.
I love that. Yeah. Some dude is like, I'll take them. All right, bye. I'll sell it to you.
And some crazy junkie named Jeff.
Jeff the junkie.
Jeff the junkie. Yeah.
I just threw painkillers in the trash this morning at my hotel. Nice. And, um, I remember thinking, I just looked down as I was throwing them in the trash and thinking, man, there's probably people outside right now that would like, do something terrible for those painkillers. I hate painkillers. Yeah.
I feel like you're. either, you're like in one group or the other where, like your body really loves painkillers, or your brain, I guess, really loves painkillers or really doesn't. I'm definitely, hate painkillers.
Yeah. I didn't take anything for my right knee. I didn't take a goddamn thing. After the surgery, I was like, I'll just deal with pain. I remember what it was like taking them for my left knee.
I was like, fuck off. Yeah. It doesn't jive with me. It just makes me, again, I hear opiates are amazing. I hear people that take like Oxycontin, they said it's amazing.
Like, oh my God, it's so wonderful.
Yeah.
Like, um, I had Peter Berg on the podcast. He's the guy that produced the, that Netflix series, Painkiller.
I listened to that one. It was awesome.
He's amazing. Peter's amazing. But that painkiller show is like, so it's so eyeopening, but he was saying that he took Oxycontin once recreationally. And he was like, oh my God, this is so good. I can never do this again.
Like, it just makes you feel so wonderful.
They say it's, you feel like you're slowly falling into like a jar of honey, like a warm jar of honey.
That's a good way to describe it.
But I don't feel like that. When I have to take a painkiller, I feel loopy and it feels nauseous. I feel, ugh, it was gross.
Well, that's good.
Yeah. Very grateful for that.
Why did you, you needed them after stem cells? Is that what you needed them for?
Yeah. So I just had stem cell treatment in Mexico.
So you went to the CPI, the Cellular Performance Institute in Mexico, and you just got hammered with them, right? Yeah.
I was there for a week and it was intense. It was great. So, yeah. So my, my, my treatment was, was pretty over the top, not over the top, but for me it was a lot. I got both shoulders done, both knees, my right elbow, my lumbar spine and my cervical spine.
And they, you know, I did the cervical spine and the lumbar. And when they do your spine, they put you out. So they put you under anesthesia and then they do the rest of my body at that same time. And then, because there were so many stem cells in my back, like most of the time, people wake up from that and they're really sore and a lot of pain. And so they gave me some, some, some pain medication, which I sort of needed right when I woke up.
But, like by the next morning, I was just on like the Tylenol trip. So, like things mellowed out really quick for me.
So that was two weeks ago. you said?
Yeah. It was like 10 days ago now.
10 days ago.
Yeah.
Do you feel any difference?
Yes. So I'm not supposed to feel any different, for, like the first month. Like, you know, you know, like these, these sort of stem cells are a little bit different. That's my understanding at least. So they're, they're called a hypoxic stem cell and they're from cord blood.
So they're, so. they're from an umbilical cord.
And I got 180 million stem cells injected and then I got a hundred million stem cells in an IV. And, um, and so those kind of, those kinds of stem cells are, they're called hypoxic, which is, I think, it means that they do really, really well under very low oxygen environments. So they're able to live on my body for up to 12 months. Live, I don't know if that's the right word, but there's, they stay active and growing in your body for 12 months. So, um, so, now it's just a matter of me following the protocol, which is not that fun.
And so the, the protocol involves essentially a lot of rest, right? You're, you're not supposed to train. Like what, what is the protocol?
Yeah. So the protocol with these specific stem cells, like, because they, you know, sort of live so long in your body, um, the first two weeks is basically nothing. It's like maybe 15 minutes of like walking per day. And then after that you work with a physical therapist and you have very specific physical therapy. So it's like, um, a lot of like stabilization stuff.
Like I did my spine. So I was talking to, um, Nikki Hind, who's my, my physical therapist. And so, so she's creating, like a physical therapy, um, schedule and program for me based around my spine. And she told me that she's, she's worked with some people who have had, um, intense stem cell therapies and it's like a pretty crazy opportunity to, to, to kind of, um, you have like a second chance. Like at this age, with my spine, to like, really change it the way, the way it is.
Um, so I'm pretty excited about that. I have some like degeneration and some, some, some bulging discs in my lower, lower back. And then I have some, my upper, upper back, my cervical spine is pretty fucked up from all the surfing wipeouts I've had.
Whoa.
So surfing wipeouts, like when you hit the ground and the water comes.
Like falling off a 60 foot wave and hitting the surface of the water, that impact with the water, like moving at, you know, like 30 miles an hour and you go in the other direction. Ugh. Yeah. Fuck. So my neck is jacked up from a lot of that.
And do they go right into the actual disc itself?
So they go in, I know in my, I don't want to mess this up, right. But, um, I try to ask all the right questions and memorize everything. But, uh, I, um, I know, in my cervical spine, they mostly did my facets, but in my lower back, I think they went straight in the discs. So they did my SI joint and then, like my C5, C4 is that, I don't know if that sounds correct, but, um, so yeah, they did the discs.
Wow. So is it supposed to make the disc expand and make it larger? And so there's more cushion between the spinal column.
Yeah, exactly. And they re, you know, like they regrow tissue, they regrow ligaments. And so where there's been a lot of, um, wearing down a lot of times, it'll regrow that. So I did my MRIs before my treatment and then I'll go back six months from now and get updated MRIs. They're really good about the data.
So they want to see your progress. So the doctor will go over you with your new MRI six months from now and compare them exactly to the previous MRI and go, Hey, here, here's where, here, here's where your knee was, or here's where your discs were. And here's where they are now. And so they tried, you know, that's the, that's the goal, right? Is, is, is for you to see some major improvement.
And is a part of the thing with not exercising at all, just make sure that you don't do any breaking down of the body while it's going through this process of accepting the stem cells?
Yeah, that's a good question. So the, my, my understanding is so in your body, like the way an injury, or like a torn ligament or a torn rotator cuff, shows up in your body, it's just inflammation.
And inflammation is like, basically like a magnet for stem cells. So the, so. the stem cells go exactly where they're needed in your body. They're really smart. So that, so, so, the stem cells were injected straight into the joints and into the areas of my body.
But, um,
would you ask me again, what was the question?
I said the idea of no exercise. Is it just like you? just have no, nothing, no strain on the body whatsoever for a long time, while these stem cells sort of just start doing their work?
So what you don't want to do is create inflammation that wasn't there already. Because you want your stem cells to go to your inflammation that you already had before, right? So you want it to heal your body where you need it the most. So you don't want to like, if I went like running 15 miles. right now, my stem cells get confused and trying to go to my calves to try to, try to repair that, that muscle soreness.
Cause. that's inflammation. Right. Um, and so you don't want to do that and you don't want to decrease inflammation either when you get stem cells, which is interesting. So I can't do the cold plunge.
I can't do the, I can't do the sauna, can't take anti-inflammatories.
How long did they tell you not to do the cold plunge or sauna?
Like five or six weeks. Really? Yeah. Wow. Cause, these, these stem cells are so active for so long that if you really want to get the most out of the treatment, but that's the protocol.
And I was like, ah, they're just saying that, you know, they're just, they're just saying that for like, the, the like, general public, but. Right. I think athletes always feel like they're like in a different category. Of course. And just because, I don't know why that is.
Cause you are in a different category. Well, in some aspects, maybe, but, and then, and then I call my physical therapist and I'm like, Hey, these guys are saying this, but like, obviously it's not that right. And she's like, no, that's right. on. Like, if you want to get the most out of this treatment, then you got to follow the protocol.
And that, that is the protocol. So. That would drive me nuts. I am being a big baby about the not working out part.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can you do anything? Can you swim? Can you do anything?
I can swim. They, they encourage you to swim. You can walk a lot. And like, unless, obviously, unless you have pain. So in your knees or something, you get pain.
Because the stem cells are like really active in your body. So, like, if you get knee pain, it could, like, it could flare up because of the stem cells. Right. If you're not having that, then you can walk a lot. And then I'll be able to do, um, like resistance training with bands and stuff, like fairly soon, like probably like four weeks from now.
Um, and then, but it's difficult, you know, like at my, at my age, I'm 51 and, and for like 18 months, I've been pretty on it. Like trying to be fit, trying to get my fitness better. Try, you know, really trying to get in shape.
You look like a rip, dude. You sent me a picture. Looking good.
Yeah. It's funny how guys will do that. Other guys would be like, Hey, update right here.
Especially when you're, when you work freaking hard, dude. Yeah. You want people to see it. It takes a long time. Especially me.
I'm like a, I don't know, like the way my body works. Like if I don't work out, like, so right now, if I didn't work out for like three months, I'll lose so much. Right. Like, just be like, I feel like I'm going to turn to mush.
Right.
Once I mush, it might take a year to get back. Right. That what I lost in, like, you know, one month or six weeks or something. It's just wild. Yeah.
Yeah. It sucks. It's a bummer. And I'm not cool with it at all.
So. Yeah. It's, it really makes you appreciate it, though. Once, once you do get it back, like if you do get out of shape and then you get back in shape, you realize how hard it is. That's one of the reasons why I'm so fanatical about working out, because I know that when I've gotten out of shape, that road back is a lot different, at 56, which is how old I am, versus 30 or 25..
Yeah. The road back.
The road back at 25 is a couple of weeks. You're good to go. You're tippy top shape again. But at 56, it's like months.
Yeah.
This is cool. One thing I did learn and I'm, and I'm, and I'm trying to keep this in mind when, when I'm sort of being a baby about all that thing about not working out, your, like, your muscles have a really strong memory. So if you're really fit and then all of a sudden you go through a period, like I'm going through right now, where I'm probably going to get unfit for a little bit, it'll come back much faster. Back to kind of exactly where you were before, really quickly, because your muscles have memory.
So definitely in comparison to someone who's out of shape.
Yeah.
Someone who never works out at all, it will take them forever to get into the shape that you were in.
Totally. Yeah.
Yeah. Big difference.
But I guess I forget exactly. I think it was Andrew Huberman was talking about it and he was saying that like, there's like muscle bellies within your muscle. And, and so if, if you develop those muscle bellies, they have a really solid memory. And so when you try to get back in shape, you'll snap back way faster.
I definitely have heard that before. And it definitely makes sense. You know, that your, your body recognizes like, oh, this is a place that we've been before. We have a memory of this. So we'll just get back to where that is.
And just to get someone who's, one of the things that drives me crazy is that people that are really out of shape, that have never worked out and they're like, ah, I got to get into shape. I'm like, okay. Do you know what you're saying? Like that, that you don't, don't like, I have a friend of mine. He's overweight and he's been talking to me about exercise.
and just like, I'm worried about being sore. I go, listen, man, if you want to do that. Yeah. I go, if you want to do this, I go, I will work out with you and I promise you, you will barely get sore because I'm not going to make you, we will work out for maybe 20 minutes. And he goes, why just 20 minutes?
I go, because you're not doing anything right now. Like you shouldn't, if you try to do what I do every day, your body's going to tear apart. Like you'll blow your shoulders out. You'll ruin your knees.
Yeah.
What we want to do is just slowly build you up. What I'll have you do is just do like five pushups, five body weight squats, five sit-ups, take a break, relax. I'll show you some stuff that we can do with bands. I'll give you some different exercises that we could do with kettlebells. Very light, just clean press.
I'll just have a couple of things that you do, some swings and we'll work out for maybe 20 minutes and then stop. And then I want to see how you feel the next day. And then I'm going to get you in the cold plunge. I'm going to get you in the sauna. And then in two days, we'll do it again.
And if we do it again, it's still the same thing. Very light, 20 minutes. And I would do that. And I told him, I will do that with you for a couple weeks before I have you really straining hard.
Yeah.
I don't want you like hurting yourself. Because too many people, they try to make up for years of abuse. And they try to just jump right back in and fucking run a marathon. Like, don't do that. You need to – your body is out of shape.
Like it's got – you have no muscle tissue. You're surrounded by fat. Like we got to build it back, nice and slow. The same way it got sick. Build it back.
So many people take 20 years to put on 100 pounds and then expect to lose it in three months, you know?
Well, and then that's the big hook with all these stupid diet programs. 10 weeks to six-pack abs. Like, no. That's not going to happen. It's not going to happen.
I feel like people really tend to overestimate how much you have to train too. Like the duration per day. Right. Like exactly what you said, like your friend, that misconception of like, oh, I need to work out an hour every single day. And the person is totally obese or something like that.
You don't need to at all. And consistency is way more important than even intensity. You know what I mean? If you're kind of intense, but you're super consistent, you do it every single day or five days a week, you get insane results in six months.
Well, that's one of the things that the Russians figured out with wrestling. That instead of these, like, unbelievably brutal, intense workouts like the American wrestlers were doing, what they were doing was very high-volume technical work.
Yeah.
Over long periods of time. Like several hours per day. And they were training multiple days, like almost every day a week. And but not high intensity all the time. Yeah.
And they were developing a far greater array of skills. Their skill improvement was greater. And then overall fitness was also getting great, too, because you weren't breaking yourself down and then forcing yourself to work out with a broken down body. They were doing it the correct way. But the correct way and the tough guy way are very different.
things. Like the tough guy way is fuck it. Just fucking grind. Get in there and push. And that's a good mentality, sort of.
But you can trip yourself up with that, because you literally put too much of a demand on your body than your body is capable of meeting. Like your mind can be tougher than the actual physical, the actual physical ability of your body to recover and move.
Yeah. And, yeah, I think it's easy to overtrain, too, when you get really, sometimes you get addicted to training. Like, I am for sure. I love working out. I love it.
Um, but, you know, I trained so differently now than I did when I was in my forties and my thirties. I think I overtrained a lot when I was, when I was younger. Yeah. And now I'm realizing, at least for my goals now, like my, like my goal with working out now is like specifically for, so I can continue doing the things I love to do as long as possible. I want to bow hunt.
I want to snowboard. I want to surf till I'm in my eighties. Yeah. You know, that's, that's the real goal. Or maybe as long as I possibly can.
Right. I don't, I mean, I like getting super jacked or, or getting super shredded or whatever. That's, that's, that sounds like fun too, but really it's all about like, like performance. Life enjoyment. Yeah.
Long term performance. Um.
Can you do yoga after the stem cells?
No. Is that?
No. No. They specifically said that? Yeah. Yeah.
But you can, but not, it's not at first. So the first, like month to eight weeks, are really important for the stem cells. Um, and it really depends. So like if, if I just had like a, say like a torn rotator cuff and I did the injection on my shoulder, I could start, start getting back in the gym much faster and I could start doing squats and I could start doing all this other stuff. Um, like once they're settled into where they are, is fine, but you don't want to create inflammation in those areas.
So as long as you're not doing overhead presses on that shoulder, you're probably going to be out doing me just fine. So my, with me, I had, you know, extensive stem cells throughout my body, especially in my spine and my back. So I gotta be careful.
I'm very interested to see how the spine, the back stuff works. Cause I've had, I've had a lot of those same issues myself with degenerative discs, and it's, uh, just from jujitsu mostly.
Yeah.
It's like everybody I know from jujitsu has something fucked up about their backs. I know a lot of guys who have had disc replacements. They, they open you up and put a fucking titanium disc in there.
The problem with that is like they got to replace it someday.
Right. And so you want to put that off as long as you can, right? Yeah, but fuck that. Yeah. Fuck that.
Fuck that. A second spinal surgery. It's such a nightmare.
And a lot of times they go from the front. I heard.
They go through your neck. Yeah. Through the front of your neck to get to there.
Gnarly. Yeah.
I guess it's the best way to do it. Yeah. They open you up. They open up a slit. Yeah.
Spread it open like a keyhole. Yeah.
I'm going to try with the stem cells for now. Yeah. For sure. You're fit, dude. What have you been eating?
I know I asked you on the, I was texting you, but I wanted to get a full breakdown of Joe's food program.
It's almost all meat.
Yeah?
Yeah. Yeah. I'm almost entirely, that's my, all I eat is meat.
Okay.
I need to unpack this. Yesterday, my entire day was almost, my entire day was like 95% elk. Wow. Yeah. That's all I eat.
Freaking, awesome. Yeah. It's okay.
For me, it just seems to work. I mean, I've tried a bunch of different diets, but for me, there's a lot of benefits to this carnivore diet. And one of the biggest ones, because I do this for a living, right? So one of the biggest ones is the cognitive benefits.
Yeah.
There's some giant difference between your body running on ketones, which is essentially what it runs on when you're running on just fats and protein, versus your body running on sugar and carbs and pasta and bread.
Yeah.
Yeah. That stuff would make me crash and I would feel dull. Like my mind would feel dull. And when I started back on the carnivore diet, like one of the first things that I noticed, like almost immediately, is that I had an extra gear. verbally.
I get an extra gear. cognitively. Like, oh, my mind is forming sentences better. Like it's quicker.
I'm more in tune with conversations, which, obviously, because I do this for a living, it's fucking so critical. I would stay on this diet just for that. Just for that. But then the other benefits are my energy levels are completely flat throughout the day. There's no crashes.
Wow. No peaks and valleys.
And good energy?
Fucking great. Yeah. It took a while. I have to be honest. The first couple weeks of the diet, my workout struggled.
Yeah. But they call that like the keto flu. Yeah. People call that.
It's a period of time when your body is trying to adapt to what you're trying to give it, right? Exactly.
And so I do take in some fats that aren't animal fats. Like. one of the things I really like is Primal Kitchen's products. Primal Kitchen makes this chipotle, lime, mayonnaise.
Is that Mark Sisson?
Yes.
I love that guy.
He's great. He's an awesome dude. And Mark makes a Primal Kitchen mayonnaise. that's avocado oil, which is very good for you.
I think we have some of that at the house.
It's great stuff. And so what I do is I'll cook up on the Traeger. I'll cook up like a few elk roasts like for the week. And then I buy like four or five jars of that Primal mayonnaise at a time, and I'll just scoop it onto a plate, and I'll just dip slices of cold elk into there. Like I came home last night from the comedy club at 1.30 in the morning, and that's what I ate.
I just ate a big plate of elk and some Primal Kitchen mayonnaise and watched YouTube.
I cannot. That's discipline, dude, to eat all meat all day. That's crazy. I'm pretty decent. Like I'm pretty, I'm pretty decent, like, with discipline.
And even with my food, I'm really disciplined with working out and kind of disciplined with food. And I'd say, for, like, you know, 80% of my food intake is like pretty darn good. It's like meat and eggs for the most part. But man, I do love, like I have sugar cravings. There's no doubt about it.
Everybody does.
And the thing is, if you don't stop eating sugar, you're always going to have these super strong sugar cravings. And there's such a big difference between hunger and cravings are two totally different things. But you feel them in the same way. You get this trigger of like, fuck, I'm hungry. I'm hungry right now.
I always said that like if you just give me a ribeye steak and I eat the ribeye steak, I will be satisfied. And I'll be done eating. I might not even eat the whole steak.
You'll stop when you're done. Right. For sure.
But if there's a bowl of pasta right next to that, I'm going to dig into that spaghetti. I'm going to fucking eat that whole thing. And then I'm going to be like, oh, and then my stomach's going to be bloated. And I'm like, oh, like I've had giant meals and then just looked at my stomach in the mirror. I'm like, what are you pregnant?
Like, what is that? Just bloated with food. I'm a, I'm a real glutton. I have a real problem with food.
Yeah, I do too.
But I don't really because I'm, I'm disciplined. But if I let myself, I will eat two pizzas. Right. I will fucking, you give me like two pepperoni and mushroom pizzas. I will fucking keep eating.
Yeah. Right. Until I'm like stuffing it. Like the pizza's up to my neck, like.
It's really hard to do that with meat. It's really hard to do that when you're eating just meat. You're going to eat until you're done and then you're done.
Well, meat has a very high satiety level. Yeah. Where anything that's high in protein. Yeah.
It satisfies you very quickly. It's delicious. It's so satisfying.
It's 100% my favorite thing to eat. Yeah. So, if I could just eat ribeye steaks or elk meat for the rest of my, the thing about eating game, wild game, though, is you must supplement with fat. You have to have fat. Yeah.
Because like.
You lose too much weight too.
Well, it's, you're not getting enough fat. You have to get fat. Fat is important for your brain function. It's important for everything. So, when I, if I, that's why I like that primal kitchen mayonnaise stuff.
Or when I cook elk, what I'll do is most of the time I will slow cook it on the Traeger, like 265 until it reaches an internal temperature about like 115 or so. Yeah. And then what I do is I take a cast iron frying pan and I use beef tallow. And so, you get a lot of fat from the beef tallow. Yeah.
And so, I'll use grass fed beef tallow and I sear it on the outside in that beef tallow. I get the fat from that. I also try to get fat from bacon. Bacon's not good for you. Whatever.
Listen, trust me. It's good for you. It's fat. You need fat.
Like animal fat. It's not good for you if you're eating all cheeseburgers from McDonald's and processed food. That's not what the problem is. And then you put bacon on top of that. The bacon is not the problem.
The real problem is there's a giant issue that people have with processed foods. And when you talk about like, there's a bunch of goofy epidemiology studies that talk about how meat increases your rate of cancer. But the way those studies work is someone will fill out a form. Like, how many days a week do you eat meat? And I eat meat six days a week.
And what they don't ask is what kind of meat. Are you eating? a Jack in the Box cheeseburger? Do you have fries with that? Do you have a shake?
Do you have soda? Like? there's a bunch of other things that people do eat. So there's a thing called healthy user bias, right? So if you're someone who says like I don't eat any meat, well, you're probably listening to a lot.
You're probably trying to do the right thing for your health. So you're listening to what would be like mainstream conventional doctor's wisdom on diet, which is almost certainly off. Because most of these doctors that are talking about this, they're not up on the latest studies. They're not like Huberman or Lane Norton or any of these. Like, if you really want to know like what's good for you and what's bad for you, I always say listen to jacked scientists.
Like those are the guys that are going to tell you. Like, these are the foods that are actually good for you. These are the foods that – and almost everyone agrees. Sugar is terrible for you. Sugar, breads, pastas, and then you get into the more controversial areas of seed oils.
Seed oils, which, essentially, were initially – they were initially invented to be industrial lubricants for machinery. And they figured out – have you ever like, seen the process where they take, like canola, oil, which, like you, think of as like, oh, canola, must be, corn, must be healthy. No, it's rapeseed, which is a – that word people don't like. Like rapeseed? What the fuck is that thing?
I don't want to have nothing to do with that plant. Well, that's what canola oil is. And then there's like safflower oil and sunflower oil. Oh, those sound wonderful.
Not good for you at all.
Avocado oil is, though. Avocado oil is very good for you. Olive oil, very good for you. There's a lot of oils that are very good for you. That's another thing that I use.
Those two in particular are definitely the best.
There's another thing I really like to do. with meat. I'll pour olive oil on it. Put a little salt, put a little olive oil. That's the way I'm getting a lot of healthy fats.
And so with my diet, I have to make sure that I get healthy fats. because you just eat just only like elk. There's not enough fat. They're too lean. But ribeyes, you could eat all ribeyes all day.
If I ate all elk, I would probably weigh 130 pounds.
You'd get shredded though, son.
Shredded like crazy. Shredded for sure.
So what I was saying was like for the first two weeks, it was really hard. My workouts were rough. It was like I was sort of fighting off a cold, almost like. I was just like. Right.
Low energy.
Yeah, like when I.
Headaches too?
No, not that bad. Yeah. No, just a little bit of fatigue. And mostly just during exercise. It wasn't really that much during the day.
Not at all during the day, in fact. But I could feel the difference. But somewhere along the line, about two weeks in, your body hits a switch. And now it has no effect on me. Right.
Now I feel great. That's amazing. I feel great hitting the bag. I feel great doing sprints. Sprints on the Airdyne bike.
I feel great with my body weight workouts, kettlebell workouts. Everything's great. But more importantly for my job, for this, my brain works better. It just works better.
Right. And for comedy, writing, all that stuff. Much better.
All the above. Everything's better. It's just carbs and bread and all that stuff. It's just the crash, like the inconsistency that you get throughout the day. And also like the fact that you just keep eating.
You just get bloated. Stuff your fat fucking face with cheeseburgers. If you give me cheeseburgers with buns, I'll eat three or four of those.
I can't stop. Hell yeah. You'll eat it until it's all gone. I will too.
But you know what I like to go to? I like to go to In-N-Out and I get those Flying Dutchman. You ever get that?
No. I don't really like In-N-Out.
You don't like In-N-Out?
I don't like In-N-Out. How dare you. I really don't. Their fries suck.
Oh, my God.
I feel like I judge a burger joint on the fries. Really?
I love their fries.
I don't like their fries.
Do you like McDonald's fries?
No.
No? Which fries do you like?
I like. like big potato wedge fries.
You know what's the best fries?
Sweet potato fries, I'm a big fan of. Oh, those are the best.
Yeah. But you know what's the best fries in all of fast food burgers? Five Guys.
Five Guys?
Five Guys. That is some fucking fries.
I don't think I've ever eaten in Five Guys.
Oh, they're the best. Five Guys will give you bacon on your burger and jalapenos. You get bacon and jalapenos. Five Guys is the best. I prefer Five Guys over, even over In-N-Out.
Yeah. My son likes In-N-Out and we go there sometimes and I get that animal style with the lettuce wraps. Mm-hmm. And it's all right.
Lettuce wrap's. okay. I prefer what's called a Flying Dutchman. And what a Flying Dutchman is just a patty, slice of cheese, patty. That's what I get.
Oh, gotcha.
It's like a patty sandwich. It's like a cheese sandwich with the patties as the bread.
Do you eat cheese on the regular? Yeah. Yeah?
What sort of cheese do you eat? I eat dairy, whatever. I eat all kinds of cheese.
What about fruit? No fruit?
I occasionally have fruit.
Occasionally. Does it make you feel weird or anything? Does it give you a weird insulin spike or anything?
No. Sometimes in the morning I just decide I want a little pep up. I'll have a banana before I work out. But most of the time I work out fasted.
Yeah. I like berries and papayas. I eat a lot of them.
Oh, those are great. Yeah. I love papayas. Yeah. I love mango.
Mango's, probably my favorite fruit.
Watermelon. Papayas are really good for your digestion. Mm-hmm. I was going to say that while we're on this thing about the food,
you know, Denise. Denise, right? From Ways to Well? Yeah, Ways to Well. Yeah.
I did my original blood work with her and then we did a really cool Zoom call afterwards and we talked for like an hour about my blood work. And I was deficient in a bunch of different things. And one of the things was vitamin D. And she goes, I think you should start supplementing with vitamin D. Do you?
And I said, yeah. I actually take vitamin D every day. And she's like, well, there's some weird disconnect. So will you send me the brand? or whatever you take?
She's like, that's a great brand. There's something wrong happening with the way your body's trying to absorb and digest that. So there was a bunch of things in my diet that I was taking, that I was kind of deficient in. And so she started me on this digestive enzyme, which is essentially papaya enzymes. And then I got my blood work done six months later and I was like really great on my vitamin D.
Interesting. Yeah.
So there was something about your diet and the supplements where your body wasn't accepting the vitamin D?
Yeah.
Well, they usually say vitamin D you should take with K2.. Yeah. Are you taking it with K2?.
I take both.
Yeah.
But my body, for some reason, just wasn't getting the vitamin D. That's interesting. Yeah. But there's a lot of people that are deficient in vitamin D.
Yeah. Oh, it's a giant problem. And it's a giant problem. Well, it's really a hormone.
Yeah.
Vitamin D is very different. And the best way to get it really is from outside. The best way to get it is from the sun. Yeah. But if you don't get it from the sun enough, like specifically if you live in a cold climate, you really have to supplement.
If you don't, it's just really bad for your health overall. in all ways, your immune system function. Something like at one point in time, like 74% of the people that were in the ICU for COVID were deficient in vitamin D. Yeah. Which is crazy.
Yeah. I mean, I think that most people, just in general, are deficient in vitamin D. Yes. And it's surprisingly, most surfers are deficient in vitamin D and they're outside in the ocean. Yeah.
It's very weird.
How is that possible?
It doesn't make any sense, but it's true.
What could be causing that?
I don't know.
Like. what about surfing?
I have no idea, but that's the actual thing.
Is it possible that somehow or another there's something about the water?
I surf. I'm in the sun every single day.
That doesn't make any sense.
I'm deficient in vitamin D.
And you tan.
And I was really deficient in vitamin D. That's wild. Yeah. It's pretty weird.
That's wild.
Yeah.
God, I wonder what that would be. That doesn't even make sense.
I know. Very strange.
I would think, if anybody would have like super high levels of vitamin D, it'd be surfers.
Yeah.
Right? Shirt off, shorts on, barefoot.
Yeah.
I don't know where it is. Your whole body is like a big old fucking solar panel for vitamin D.
I don't know, but I definitely wasn't getting it. Wow. So I have to supplement that. I have to supplement a couple different things.
One of the things that I do that Huberman says to do is I spend the early part of the morning like staring into the sun.
Yeah.
I get up in the morning and the first thing I do is go into the cold plunge. And where my cold plunge is set up, like when I get it in the morning, the sun is like right there. Yeah. In the sky, when I'm freezing my dick off. So I just lie in this thing and like stare at the sun.
It's an amazing way to wake up. It just fires me up like right away. It just changes my whole day.
Yeah.
You know, like whatever sluggishness and weirdness that I have, I get in that thing and it's like, yikes. And I'm staring at the sun. It's like all my levels just go right back up to normal.
I'm drawing a blank on a term, but what is it called when your body sets its time for the day from the sun? Circadian rhythm. Yeah, circadian rhythm. Yeah. It's supposed to be great for that.
So it benefits your sleep a lot, right? To get sunlight early in the morning.
Yeah, supposedly.
It sets your body's clock, your mind's clock.
I've never had a problem with sleep.
Yeah, me neither.
Luckily. I'm just one of those guys. I suck.
I suck. Yeah, I have friends that really struggle with sleep.
My wife struggles with sleep. I can go to sleep on a fucking train station floor.
Yeah, I don't get it at all. And I'm not super empathetic about it too. Because sometimes, like my wife, will be up like doing something in the middle of the night and she's like, she can't sleep. And I'm like, what are you doing? Like, go back to sleep.
She's like, do you think I want to?
Yeah. Some people just can't sleep. Yeah. Well, Jocko only sleeps like four hours a night.
That's not good for you.
He says he doesn't need anymore.
Yeah, but his brain does.
I don't know.
I don't know. Maybe not like for functioning right now, but like long-term. Yeah. Like you asked Andrew Huberman, and that's one of the things you can do to like help your brain function as long as possible. And like with Alzheimer's and all kinds of brain issues, like long-term.
Sleep is a major factor.
Yeah, it's a major factor. if they look at the correlation between, like, the amount of hours of sleep and the instances of Alzheimer's. It seems to be some sort of connection. Huge. Yeah, I don't know.
Jocko's a different kind of animal, though. Maybe.
He's definitely seems built different.
Yeah. Maybe he just doesn't need it. I think there's certain people, I think Arnold is one of those people too. Schwarzenegger. I think he said he only sleeps a few hours a night.
Yeah. I think there's certain people that, just like, they, have just different requirements. There are people that, like physically, don't need as much sleep. Like everybody needs some sleep. But I think there are people, I'm not one of them.
I can notice the difference between six and eight hours. I know it's a big difference. Six hours is like, oh, I got to push. There's an extra push. Whereas eight hours, good to go.
Yeah. You know. I sleep six or seven hours a night. But I feel like everybody's different. Like there must be outliers to only sleep four hours a night and function well.
It must not affect your hormones as much as most people. Because, like, I feel like most people, if you sleep four hours a night, it's terrible for your hormones. It really causes a crazy crash in your hormones.
I think it really depends on what you're doing. Like for some people, like, if you're only sleeping four hours but your job is very engaging and very intense and there's a lot of adrenaline, you're fired up. Like at the end of that day, you're probably going to crash hard. But you might be able to pull it off and keep going. But if you have like some fucking paperwork job and you only slept like four hours, you're going to be yawning and falling asleep.
You're going to be barely able to get through it.
Or even this job. There's like the brain function aspect. Oh, here it is.
Huge. After 10 years search, scientists find second short sleep gene. After a decade of searching, UC San Francisco, scientists who identified the only human gene known to produce natural short sleep, lifelong nightly sleep that lasts just four to six hours yet leaves individuals feeling fully rested, have discovered a second. It says, before we identified the first short sleep gene, people really weren't thinking about sleep duration in genetic terms, said Ying-Hiu Fu, PhD professor of neurology and member of the UCSF Weill Institute for Neurosciences. Fu led the research teams that discovered both short sleep genes, the newest of which is described in a paper published August 28, 2019, in the Journal of Neuron.
According to Fu, many scientists once thought that certain sleep behaviors couldn't be studied genetically. Sleep can be difficult to study using the tools of human genetics because people use alarms, coffee, and pills to alter their natural sleep cycles, she said. These sleep disruptions, the thinking went, made it difficult for researchers to distinguish between people who naturally sleep for less than six hours and those who do so only with the aid of an artificial stimulant. Natural short sleepers remained a mystery until 2009, when a study conducted by Fu's team discovered that people who had inherited a particular mutation in a gene called DEC2 averaged only 6.25 hours of sleep per night. Study participants lacking the mutation averaged 8.06 hours.
The finding provided the first conclusive evidence that natural short sleep is, at least in some cases, genetic. But this mutation is rare, so while it helped explain some natural short sleepers, it couldn't account for all of them. Interesting.
Yeah, that is interesting.
I think Jocko is just an animal.
Yeah, just must vary.
I think he likes being tired. I think he likes waking up tired and then pushing through it.
He's probably so used to suffering on a daily that that just becomes his baseline. If he's not suffering, he probably doesn't feel right.
Right? Well, how many fucking, go to his Instagram. How many photos are there of his watch?
Yeah.
At 430 in the morning.
He's got the worst, but best Instagram, but the worst Instagram. Here's like another watch photo. But you know he's getting after it.
I know, it's a shitty Timex watch with scratches all over it. He's probably had it for a decade.
My go-to when I'm working out, Joe, is, I'll go on Spotify, and I'll search Jocko, Goggins, Rogan, gym motivation, and they'll have these snippets from different YouTube videos of your show. When you have someone on and you're getting psyched, or Goggins saying you're a bitch if you don't work out hard, or whatever it is, and then Jocko saying a bunch of stuff. It's like this hyper-motivational stuff, and I'll listen to that as I'm working out. I swear, for sure, it's like maybe 30%, 40% difference in my output. I work way harder.
Isn't it wild? what inspiration can do? Yeah.
Like a rock movie. Yeah, I send it to people. I'll be working out and so fired up. I'll share it and be like, hey, next workout. You've got to try this.
It's like that. good. It's like pre-workout, but the whole thing.
Yeah, it's interesting how something that happens to you, that's inspirational, like some sort of mental fuel. Yeah. It's like a physical drug. Your body responds to it like a physical drug and you get fired up.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's real. Music is like that.
Most of the time, I don't work out to music. I just work out. Yeah. I usually watch something on TV. I'll watch fights or something on TV, but every now and then I work out with music on, and my God, you get an extra gear because of the music.
Yeah. You get fired up by a good song. Like, say, if you're doing like Tabata sprints on the Airdyne bike, a good song comes on, you're like, fuck.
Right. Yeah.
It just gives you extra energy.
Yeah. And it feels so good when you're done, when you've really worked hard. I love that feeling.
It's a drug. I mean, inspiration is a drug. Inspiration through music, inspiration through movies, inspiration through little short Instagram clips. Yeah. It's a drug.
Yeah. It's crazy how what you listen to through your headphones can completely change the way your brain's thinking and just give you more output. physically. Like it's pretty damn cool.
It is cool. We're just very fortunate that there's so many sources of inspiration today.
Yeah. No kidding. This is like-.
Yeah. It's like no other time that's ever existed. Yeah. I save them too. I have like a folder on my Instagram with just fucking awesome clips.
Yeah.
That I could just go to at any time.
So good. Bookmarks. I love that too. Yeah.
So how has the bow hunting in Hawaii been?
It's been good. It's been good. It's been good. It's been good for me. I've been bow hunting axis deer a lot.
I actually, I took the year off hunting elk. I saw it. You were hunting elk and we talked, but yeah, you had a really exciting elk season. I want to hear about that. But yeah, it's been amazing.
I've been not home very much, but the last couple of times I was home in Hawaii, I bow hunted axis deer. I went on this last trip, I killed four deer and that was just lots of fun. Just spent tons of time, mostly spooking deer and missing, but, uh, four of them.
Were you on Maui?
Uh, yeah, I was.
The thing about axis deer hunting is it's so, it's so sustainable. It's such a great way to get food because there's no natural predators. They literally have to be hunted, and there's fucking thousands of them.
Thousands. Thousands. Yeah.
When we did Lanai, remember when we had the dream team? Yeah.
It was such a good trip.
Oh, so good. We got to do it again, man. It was so fun. You, me, Cam Haines, John Dudley, Adam Greentree, Remy, Warren, Ben O'Brien. Oh my God.
It was such a good crew. What a crew. I know it was wild. What a great time we had.
Yeah. And then we did that podcast in my hotel room.
Lot of deer got killed that week.
A lot of deer. Yeah. That gave a lot of people a very delusional perspective of how easy it is to hunt axis deer. in Lanai, though. No kidding.
Yeah. The guides told me that they had 150 hunters come in after us, and one of them was successful.
Yeah.
One. It's so hard. Everybody else pulled a rifle.
It's so hard. Yeah. It's funny. Like. I always tell people that I'm like, I'm like, I'll see a thousand deer in a day.
It's not unusual for me to see a thousand deer in a day. And they're like, how, how'd you only get one? Or how'd you get none? Like sometimes I go axis deer hunting in Hawaii for three days straight and not get one.
Yeah. Easily. Yeah.
Easily. It is so hard to get close enough into bow range, where you're trying to get 30 yards away from a deer and there's 200 deer in front of you in a herd.
I have a video of a shot. I'll try to find it on my phone, but I have a video of a shot I took at 80 yards and it's a perfect shot. Like this arrows arcing right towards the vitals at 80 yards when the arrows 10 yards away from the deer is like, and he's gone. Like not there. 10 yards.
Like the arrow's going, I don't know how fast it was going by the time it got to him, but on the way there it's going 275 feet a second.
Yeah.
And when it got close to him, he heard it and he was, they're evolved, they've evolved to get away from tigers.
Isn't that insane?
Those motherfuckers are so twitchy. They're so fast.
Can you pull up Instagram? Oh yeah. Can you go to Matt Miola, his page, one of my really good friends that I bow hunt with in Hawaii. How do you spell Miola? M-E-O-L-A.
This guy is one of my favorite human beings, by the way. He's a legend. Really good bow hunter, great surfer. One of the best air surfers in the world, but.
Air? What's an air surfer?
Like a, he just incredible at airs. Like see that air, that up on the upper right.
Oh Jesus.
He's the man. Wow. If you scroll down, yeah. He, if you scroll down, there's one, he's so funny, this guy. Great fisherman, great bow hunter.
Uh, can you go, go, uh, go back up in the middle, right there. No. Yeah, right in the middle. I think this one, if you see it, it'll show his taking shots at axis deer and you'll see his arrow in, in the air. You see it?
Yeah. And watch the deer. It's going perfect.
He's like, fuck it. Let me get out of here.
Look at that. That was a perfect shot. Yeah. And a clean miss at the same time.
Yeah. It's nuts. They're so fast.
There's another one right here.
Well, when we, um, went to Lanai. I know, it's crazy.
I mean.
The arrows are going so fast. So fast.
And the deer are faster.
They just duck and run. Yeah.
It's crazy. The amount of perfect shots you've made and completely missed is crazy.
Yeah, it is. When you see them in slow-mo and you realize like, oh, I don't suck. Like, these things are fucking greased lightning.
But they will make you throw your bow in the air. They'll make you buy a rifle. Yeah. I know so many people who have tried to go bow hunting for axis deer and end up shooting one with a rifle.
Well, with a rifle, it's more ethical. Because the reality is, with a rifle, you're, you're going to 100% get a deer. And if you want to just get. Yeah. And if you want to get that meat, that's the way to do it.
Yeah.
Because they can't dodge bullets.
If you're. Yeah. If you're filling the freezer, that's the best way.
100%. By far. 100%.
By far the best way.
The best way to do it. And I'm not opposed to rifle hunting. I mean, I shot a pig.
I'm not either.
I shot a pig last week with a rifle. It was awesome. And after a long ass bow hunt. Yeah. I just loved like having it on a rest.
Yeah. Looking at that fucking reticle and just boom. And he stoned him and he just dropped dead and now got, you know, a two, he's a big ass fucking pig. So I have, uh, I mean, who knows how many pounds of sausage I'm going to get from this. It's going to be amazing.
I'm excited. That's awesome.
They make great sausage.
But he was a fat boy.
I've only killed one animal with a, with a gun. Really? Yeah. What size was that? It was the first animal I ever killed.
What size was that?
Wow. That's a fricking dinosaur, dude. That's a big ass pig. Yeah. Big ass.
Cool looking too.
Wild boar. And where I was at in California, they're overwhelmed with them. They're so mad. We saw hundreds of pigs every day.
Hard to get close to, though, right? Yes. Yeah. They're very, very smart. Like rolling hills.
Yeah. Very smart. But with a rifle, it's like so much easier.
Yeah.
All you have to do is just like squeeze it. Don't move.
Boom.
There's so much less moving stuff.
For sure.
And when you're at full draw and you got your anchor point, I have a nose button, so I have to touch this thing to my nose and I have to make sure that my finger is like right under my jaw line. A lot of things to think about. Yeah. There's like a lot of shit going on. My elbow, make sure it's up in the air.
And not like this. You know, there's like so many, like you have to like, I have to think the bubble has to be level. Make sure the housing is centered in the peep site. And you're going through all this while you're in this like high pressure situation, with this fucking massive elk of a lifetime standing in front of you at 50 yards. Yeah.
And then you got to put the pin on its vitals, then your nerves are going. So you got to make sure you're centering that pin and make sure that pin's not moving too much. And then the shot breaks perfect. But when it does happen and you hear that whack, and then the elk runs off. And in this case, in California, my elk died in literally 10 seconds.
Yeah.
It was the fastest I've ever had an elk die. It was a perfect quartering away shot. So it shot through the ribs, like a little back. So, you know, you know, quartering away shot. What that means, folks, is, instead of the animal standing completely sideways, it's slightly facing away.
So it's looking away from you slightly, which is actually a much better shot, because then you're going through like three and a half, four feet of body cavity with a broadhead.
Yeah. Opens up the vitals.
Yeah. And the animal died almost instantly. It ran for 80 yards, like as much as it could before it just died. And it died instantly.
So, let me ask you this. So I'm totally not opposed to rifle hunting at all. I think rifles are great for filling the freezer and totally ethical hunting. But for you, that rifle hunt sometimes and bow hunt sometimes, the feeling of making the perfect archery shot on a bull elk, and the feeling of seeing that arrow go through the air and hit it exactly where you aimed, and that elk going down in 10 seconds, it's a different feeling, right?
It's way better. Yeah. It's much, much, much, much, much more difficult, because you can have a very ethical shot on a deer with a rifle at 200 yards, where the deer might not have any idea, you're even there. Yeah. So if you, especially if you're prone, so if you have a pack and you rest your rifle on the pack and you're lying down on your stomach and you breathe out and relax, that bullet is flying so straight.
If your rifle is zeroed and you look at the reticle and you get those crosshairs perfectly on the vitals, that's a dead deer.
Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent.
Whereas with bow hunting, you've got wind, you've got all sorts of shit going on, and you have to get so close that you're within the animal senses. Like when I crept up on this elk that I shot last week, I wore two pairs of wool socks. I took my shoes off because I could creep in.
Yeah.
Because he was bedded.
It was so damn cool.
It was so cool. Because it was the perfect opportunity, because he was bedded and he was looking away from me. I was like, oh, he's dead. He's dead. I just have to do this the right way.
I started out at 110 yards and I crept in very slowly, the final 60 yards. Because there was a bunch of shit in the way, I had to get to 50.. I got to 60, I was like, I like it, but I don't like these branches and shit. I got to get to the right, which is another 10 yards. It took me another 10 minutes.
Yeah. It was nice and slow. But when I got to 50 and he was still bedded, I'm like, oh, he's dead. I just have to wait for him to stand up. And then eventually he got up, stretched his legs out, and whack.
Were you on your knees or standing up? Standing.
I was standing in the tree. There's actually a video of it. It's on my Instagram. Very cool. Pull that video up because it's dope, because you see how good the Origin camo is?
We're working with Origin now. And Origin is Jocko's company and Cam Haines, me, and Kip Folks, who started Under Armour.
Yeah. We're working for them.
That's me right up there.
Yeah.
So look how well I blend in. It's great. Yeah. And you could actually hear it. Play, give it a volume so you could hear the whole thing, which is for a bow hunter, listen to this sweet shot.
Listen to this.
Yeah.
That's what you want to hear.
Yeah. Great noise right there. It's the best. Yeah.
But it's also interesting, like at 50 yards, listen to this.
There's like half a second there.
Yeah, definitely.
That's enough time. There's time there. Like for an axis deer, that motherfucker would be gone.
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