#2054 - Elon Musk
2023-10-31 02:41:17
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Why is it so much harder than making an individual model?
All of the casting machines, all of the stamping machines, as the case may be, the glass machines, the wheels, the tires, everything required for the motor, the battery cells, all of the constituents of the battery cells,
all of the silicon that goes in there with the chips.
The manufacturing is somewhere between 100 and 1,000 times harder than making a prototype.
And then, if you want to say like you want to get from,
once you reach volume manufacturing, which is insanely difficult, then you want to make the car affordable, it's harder to say reduce the cost of the car by 20% than it is to get to volume production in the first place.
So I really cannot emphasize enough how hard production is relative to design. I'm not saying design is trivial because you have to have taste and you have to know what to make. If you don't have a taste and judgment, then your prototype will be bad.
But it is trivial really to turn out prototypes and it is extremely difficult to build a factory.
And how much more difficult is it to make this, considering the body is made out of steel? It's very difficult.
The difficulty of manufacturing is proportionate to the amount of new technology that you have in a car or in the product. And in this case there's a lot of new technology. The production line will move as fast as the slowest and least lucky and most foolish part of the entire production line. And you could say to first approximation, there are 10,000 things that have to go right, at least for production to work. So if you have 9,999 things that are working and one that isn't, that sets the production rate.
That's by far the hard part. In fact, the amazing thing about automobiles was not so much the invention of the automobile, but the invention of the factory. The mass manufacturing. And for that Henry Ford deserves a tremendous amount of credit.
He was a next level genius.
In fact, Ford is really responsible for the entire mass manufacturing industry, because he actually founded Cadillac, which was the heart of General Motors. Then he got kicked out and then started Ford. Really? Yeah, and then everyone just copied him.
Do you know? he made one of his first cars out of hemp?
Huh.
Well, he used hemp fiber for the panels. Okay. Yeah, there's a fascinating video of him banging on it with a hammer. Because hemp is bizarrely durable when it's compressed. and when they take the fibers.
And I don't know what kind of epoxy they use, or something to put it all together. But what it makes with the actual physical form of it is insanely light. Like fiberglass light, but very, very durable. See if you can find that video. It's kind of crazy.
Henry Ford is banging on the hood of it with a hammer.
There it is.
So this was like, look at that.
Isn't that crazy?
That is wild.
I don't know why they stopped making them out of that. That was from 1941..
How much does the Cybertruck weigh?
It depends on the configuration, but it's about 7,000 pounds.
There's different versions, but 6,000, 7,000 pounds. It's like similar to, like it's a heavy truck.
Like a Ford F250 or something like that.
Yeah.
Because of all of the metal and the weight and everything like that, but with the engines that you have, it's still, the 0-60 is pretty bizarre, right? It's like 3.5 or something like that?
We're aiming to get the 0-60 below 3 seconds.
Below 3?.
Yes. Wow. For the, you know, the beast mode version. So we've got a beast mode version.
So there's, well, I don't want to give it all away right now, but there are three demonstrations. One of them people are aware of, which is, you know, emptying a Tommy gun into the side of the car, a shotgun, .45 and a 9mm, and no penetrations.
Wow.
And that's, it comes that way from the factory.
Can I try it with an arrow?
Yeah, it'll be fine.
You think so?
I bet I can get in there. A crossbow might.
I have a 90 pound compound bow that shoots 520 grain arrows at 300 feet per second. With a razor sharp broadhead.
We're going to try it right now, if you want.
I wish I had it with me.
Is it at your house or something?
Yeah.
Should we send someone to go get it?
We could do the demo tonight. That would be interesting.
Maybe I'll drive back with an arrow sticking out of my car.
I bet I could get in there.
Okay, I'll bet you can't. Really? Yeah, I'll bet you're duller. Damn.
I think if you have a crossbow that's with enough force, a crossbow might get through.
The thing about a crossbow is the bolt, even though it's very fast, it's not going to be nearly as heavy. You won't have as many grains.
You can make a heavy crossbow bolt.
You could, yeah. But generally, crossbow bolts are considerably lighter. They're much smaller. And they're much faster. They're moving at like 400, 500 feet per second.
Easy. Yeah. The thing that matters is kind of the energy per unit area.
So interesting, like a 9mm or a 45, which is basically sort of a 10mm,
the 45 is roughly the same, but the 45 actually has slightly worse penetration than a 9mm.
You know what I just realized? I do have some broadheads. I do have some broadheads, and I have a less powerful bow, but I have an 80-pound bow back there.
Go for it.
I think we should do it.
Absolutely.
Okay, you want to do it right now?
Yeah, I can do it right now.
Okay, let's do it right now. Okay, let's do it. Sick.
This is going to be funny. I'm just like, why does he have an arrow sticking out of his car?
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I mean, just beware of ricochets.
You might want to do it at a slight angle.
Look at that.
There. it is. Very nice.
Look at this. Look at this. Blew the arrow apart.
That's nice.
Yeah.
Flatten the tip of the arrow. Look at the tip of the broadhead.
That's impressive.
Hey, cutie.
Thank you. Well, now we know. So, we just shot an arrow into it, and it barely scratched it. Barely scratched it.
Yeah.
It was probably moving 275 feet a second. That was a 525 grain-ish arrow with, yeah, even more than that because it had the 125 grain head. So, that was 545 grains. That's impressive. Yeah.
Very impressive. It just destroyed the broadhead. The broadhead flattened at the tip, and then the arrow blew apart.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Yeah. Like I said, we have a cool video we'll show at the handover event next month, which is emptying an entire magazine of Tommy Gun, which I think is on the order of 50 rounds. You're just going full, Al Capone, you know, outside of the car, shotgun, 9mm, .45..
And you built it like this just for fun?
Well, I mean—.
Because it's cooler?
I mean—.
Because you can?
You know, trucks are supposed to be tough, right?
Yeah.
So, is your truck bulletproof?
No, mine is definitely not. Exactly. And if I shot mine with my bow, it would go right through it. Yeah. 100%.
So, if you shoot any normal car, unlike in the movies where people hide behind car doors, a car door is basically very thin, mild steel. So, if you shoot a gun through a regular truck, it'll go through both doors.
So, you can't hide behind a car door like they do in the movies. Way back in the day, dating myself at the A-Team, where they would like— you know, there'd be like bullets flying everywhere, and they'd be hiding behind the car door. Right. That doesn't work.
But it does in a Cybertruck.
Was there ever a—.
It's best in apocalyptic technology.
Yeah, well—.
You don't know.
It's an amazing car to have in the apocalypse.
Yeah, exactly.
Doesn't it also—does it still do this thing where the ride height raises? And there's also no regular drivetrain. So, there's no axles that are the impediment to going over rocks and things like that.
Yeah, normally in other vehicles, in gasoline diesel vehicles, you've got the differential, which hangs down low between the rear wheels. So, you look under a truck, there's almost always a differential there. that's hanging down pretty low. So, if you hit the diff on a rock, you'll break it. Yeah.
There's no—at the bottom of the Cybertruck, it's completely flat. And it has the best clear height of any vehicle.
How far away are we, if it's ever going to happen at all, from having a vehicle that can operate entirely on solar?
Well, you've got a surface area thing.
So, it's about a kilowatt per square meter, normal to the sun, roughly.
So, you just—it really depends on what kind of mileage. You can't—you don't have enough surface area to keep the car going just from the car surface area. But if you had something that folded out, you could make it self-sustaining.
Something that folded out, so you could park it and then leave it on?
Yeah, you'd have to unfold, like the Starlink satellites do, where you unfold the solar panels. You just need more surface area.
Is there any potential for an advancement in technology that would make a smaller area much better at conducting sun? Nothing?
No, it's a kilowatt per square meter. That's what you're going to get when the sun—if you're normal to the sun, so at 90 degrees to the sun.
And there's nothing that can accelerate that, or no—.
That's just literally the solar energy. That's just it. Yeah, so then you multiply your efficiency by that. So, if your commercial panels, like maybe 25% efficient, they're a good one. So, you get like 250 watts per square meter.
There was one car—.
Roughly 10 feet.
What was it, like? a Fisker that was using a solar panel that claimed that it was operating the electronics, like it could start the radio?
I mean, you can definitely—it's just, you don't have enough surface area for it. But you can certainly—you could run a house with solar, with the solar roof. That Tesla solar roof, you can run a house.
But it's never going to get to a point where you can just have a car that's made out of solar panels that it could drive around. It could never be that efficient.
Correct. You don't have enough surface area.
What research or what breakthroughs have been made in terms of battery technology? Like, how far away are we from having batteries that are far more efficient and last far longer? I know there's some talk of like sodium-based batteries.
Battery range is not a problem at this point. I mean, the Model S will go 400 miles. Model 3, Model Y will do over 300 miles.
So, you know, that's more than most people need.
But are we—I mean, how far away are we from making batteries that are more efficient? Like we obviously have at least—.
This is not—what I'm saying is this is not really a constraint. The point at which you've got a car that can do, let's say, even at highway speeds, 250 miles,
then—or let's say 240 miles at 80 miles an hour. Now you're driving for three hours straight.
And so if you start a trip at, say, 9 a.m., by noon, you want to stop for lunch, go to the restroom, grab a coffee. By the time you come back, your car is charged.
How long does it take to fully charge?
Yeah, like half an hour. Well, you don't want to—people will get used to it because it's a little different.
Like for a gasoline car, you'd want to fill it up. For an electric car, you'd want to actually go very close to zero. And the car can calculate how much range it has with precision. So if you, say, enter a road trip in a Tesla, it'll calculate all of the supercharges along the way, where you should stop, how much you should charge, and just let the computer do its thing and it'll work well. So you actually want to charge to about 80 percent and then run it down all the way to 10 percent or less.
Do you want to do that on everyday use as well, or just with long trips?
No, just long trips. If you're trying to minimize the amount of time you stop when charging. So let's say you want to stop for 20, 30 minutes.
It's a little counterintuitive because for a gasoline car, you would fill it up. For a battery, the charge state tapers off as you get above 80 percent. I think the right analogy here is cars in a parking lot. So the lithium ions are trying to find a parking space. as they move across from one side of the battery to the other side, from cathode to anode.
These ions are just bouncing around looking for a parking space. So when the parking lot's empty, they can zip right in there and find a spot. It's easy. As the parking lot gets full, just like trying to find a parking space at a mall, you have to hunt around for a spot.
That's basically what's going on. The ions are looking for a parking spot. So as the battery gets closer to full, it's harder and harder to find a spot. They have to bounce around more.
So it takes longer to get from 80 to 100?.
Correct. Getting from 80 to 100 takes about as much time as getting from 0 to 80..
Just think of it like the ions go to find a parking spot. Just like if you're in a mall and it's busy, then it takes longer to find a parking spot than if it's empty.
So, essentially, you're satisfied with the technology that's available right now in terms of the amount of mileage that you get out of it and things along those lines.
Yeah, range is not an issue. Cost is more of an issue. A long range car needs to be affordable.
When you fully roll out, how many of those things, how many Cybertrucks can you guys make a month?
We're aiming to make about $200,000 a year at full production. Wow! Maybe a little more. But I just can't emphasize enough that manufacturing is much, much harder than the initial design.
The Cybertruck was easy to design. I'm not trying to trivialize design. It's just what I'm trying to do is to emphasize the difficulty of manufacturing, which is not understood by the public because there's no movie about it. So there's lots of movies about the sort of wild inventor in the garage, but I'm not aware of any movie about manufacturing. Have you ever heard of a movie about manufacturing?
I can't remember any. Jamie, any movie about manufacturing? There's one coming to my brain, but I don't think that's what it's even about, so I have no idea. What is that? Michael Keaton was making some cars somewhere, and I had to look it up.
I mean, it's Tommy Boy. Yeah, Tommy Boy's the only one. That's about as great a movie.
It's a great movie. I might be the only one. That's interesting that it's such an immense part of American culture and also the decline of some American cities. I mean, it's famously documented in Roger and Me, which is a great documentary, where he just talks about how Flint got destroyed when they pulled out the car manufacturing.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's a reason why generally politicians really try very hard to get a factory in their area. It's because it's a massive generator of jobs, and for every factory job, there's roughly five support jobs. So it's like teachers, electricians, plumbers, lawyers, accountants, restaurants.
So manufacturing is kind of like a nucleus from which many jobs spring. That's why it's generally, you know, governors and prime ministers and presidents will try so hard to get a factory in their country or region.
When you decided to build the Gigafactory, even when you decided to get involved with Tesla, did you have any idea of how difficult this would be? Did you have a preconceived notion?
No, I thought it would be very difficult. I thought our probability of success was less than 10%.
Yeah, I mean, it would be foolish to think anything else other than that. I mean, even at this point, the only car companies that have not gone bankrupt are Ford and Tesla, American car companies. General Motors went bankrupt and Chrysler went bankrupt in 2009..
There's some chance they'll go bankrupt again.
Ford and Tesla barely made it. It was incredibly difficult to keep Tesla alive when General Motors and Chrysler were going bankrupt.
Because manufacturing is the actual hard thing, not by far the hard thing. I just can't emphasize that enough, and I hope somebody makes a movie about that.
Maybe they should make a movie about Tesla.
Sure.
Why not? Yeah. Perfect. Who would you want to play you?
I don't care.
How about David Spade?
Anyone. No. I don't care. I'm kidding. I don't care if anyone plays me.
I just went back to Tommy Boy. Yeah. I mean, we rocked. So, you know, Jim Folley is the CEO of Ford, and he's Chris Folley's cousin.
No way.
Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. Yeah.
That's crazy.
And they look, I mean, they look related.
Yeah, there should be a movie.
You've got to get someone good, that doesn't fuck it up.
Well, I mean, the thing is that writers are just disconnected from manufacturing. They just never see it. Right.
And I guess you have to try to create some narrative arc.
I mean, there are some shows like How It's Made type of thing. They're pretty niche.
But I know I have some broken record here, but I can't emphasize enough that it is insanely difficult to manufacture.
Makes sense. Yeah. Well, it particularly makes sense when it's something that novel. Something that's, but ultimately cool as fuck. Yeah.
What has it been like, you've owned X for a year now.
Oh, yeah.
Do you ever wake up in the middle of the night and have a dream that you didn't do it?
And your life is infinitely easier?
Well, it's certainly a recipe for trouble, I suppose, or contention.
What was it ultimately that led you to make the decision to do it?
I mean, this is going to sound somewhat melodramatic, but I was worried about that it was having a corrosive effect on civilization. That it was just having a bad impact.
And I think part of it is that it's where it was located, which is downtown San Francisco.
And while I think San Francisco is a beautiful city, and we should really fight hard to kind of right the ship of San Francisco. If you've walked around downtown San Francisco, right near the ex-FK Twitter headquarters, it's a zombie apocalypse. I mean, it's rough. Have you been in that area?
Not lately. No. I've heard.
It's crazy.
I've heard. it's crazy. I've heard. you really can't believe it until you actually go there.
You can't believe it until you go there. So, now you have to say, well, what philosophy led to that outcome? And that philosophy was being piped to Earth.
So, a philosophy that would be ordinarily quite niche and geographically constrained, so that the fallout area would be limited, was effectively given an information technology weapon to propagate what is essentially a mind virus to the rest of Earth. And the outcome of that mind virus is very clear if you walk around the streets of downtown San Francisco. It is the end of civilization.
And it's not just propagating the mind virus, but suppressing any opposing viewpoints.
Yes. Well, in order for the virus to propagate, it must suppress opposing viewpoints.
Because it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Correct. I mean, you've felt the virus.
Yeah.
People have tried to cancel you so many times.
Yeah, it's fascinating. I don't think you're melodramatic at all. I mean, I don't want to be melodramatic, but it's almost like a death cult.
It's a death cult. No, no, that is exactly right. It's essentially the extinctionists. Like, it's in the limit. It is that they're propagating the extinction of humanity and civilization.
And there's some people who are, like, most of the time, it's implicit. But sometimes it's explicit. Like, there was a guy on the front page of the New York Times who literally has the thing called the extinctionist movement. And he was quoted on the front page of the New York Times as saying, there are 8 billion people in the world, but it would be better if there were none.
And I'm like, well, buddy, you can start with yourself.
Yeah. Does he have friends? That's what always fascinates me. Well, here he is. That guy.
He looks like he's not long for this earth.
I mean, he's not young.
Voluntary human extinction movement. That's hilarious. I'd like to party with that dude.
That's an explicit version of the death cult.
Yeah, maybe live long and die out.
I mean, it's not – extinction is a word he uses.
Yes.
No, I mean, it's literally a self-description.
Did they cover him glowingly?
That death cult was in charge of social media. Yeah. And still largely is at Google and Facebook, by the way.
Yeah.
So I'm like, I'm not in favor of human extinction. They are, and then go to hell.
Well, that guy is.
Yeah, he can go to hell.
That guy seems silly. I would like to hang out with him. I would like to find out what makes him tick. I bet that guy is fascinating. This episode is brought to you by DraftKings.
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Well, if you get them alone for a few days and dig in.
I'm pro-environment, but in the limit, if you take environmentalism to an extreme, you start to view humanity as a plague on the surface of the earth, like a mold or something. Right.
But this is actually false. The earth could take probably ten times the current civilization. You could 10x the population without destroying the rainforest. So the environmental movement, and I'm an environmentalist, has gone too far. They've gone way too far.
If you start thinking that humans are bad, then the natural conclusion is humans should die out. Now, I'm headed to an AI safety, international sort of AI safety conference later tonight, leaving in about three hours.
And I'm going to meet with the British Prime Minister and a number of other people.
So you have to say, like, how could AI go wrong? Well, if AI gets programmed by the extinctionists, its utility function will be the extinction of humanity.
Yeah, clearly.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, particularly if –.
They won't even think it's bad, like that guy.
Right. Yeah. If you let AI –.
It's messed up.
There's a lot of decisions that AI would make. that would be very similar to eugenics.
I mean, there would be some radical changes in what people are allowed to and not allowed to do that allow them to survive. that may be detrimental in terms of, like, pollution and things like that. But it may be the only solution they have in their area. I mean, maybe AI would come up with some sort of a different structure in terms of how they get power and resources, but –.
There's no shortage of power. Like, we talked about solar power for cars. The issue is that cars just have a very low surface area. But you could actually power the entire United States with 100 miles by 100 miles of solar. Really?
Yes.
So you could just pick some dead spot that you fly over –.
Of which there are plenty.
Cover that sucker up with solar panels and charge the whole country.
Absolutely.
24-7..
You need batteries, but yes.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah, it's not hard. I mean, it's very feasible. In fact, the sun is converting over 4 million tons of mass to energy every second. And it's no maintenance. That thing just works.
We have a giant fusion reactor in the sky. that is the sun. In fact, people are like – So I was like, well, what about radiation? I'm like, the sun is literally a nuclear reactor in the sky. Are you scared to go in daylight?
Rocks have radiation.
Yes. The radiation risk is greatly overestimated.
I always wonder why radiation is always bad in real life, but always awesome in comic books.
Yeah. Right? You get bitten by a radioactive spider and suddenly you have spider abilities.
Get hit with gamma rays. You've become the Hulk.
What if it's radioactive cockroach? You'd be like the cockroach man.
Yeah, you can be one of the X-Men.
Yeah. Yeah. I think the problem is, most people just don't understand what radiation is. And so it just sounds like a mysterious, invisible death ray.
Well, it's almost like drugs. We think of it, we put a blanket over it. It's all one thing. Radiation is Chernobyl.
Right. I mean, the things you can go to, you can actually tour Chernobyl right now. Can you really? Yes.
You can actually go to where the meltdown is?
Well, I mean, there's a war zone, but apart from that. The issue is more getting shot than it is. You don't have a radiation risk. I mean, the problem is, I think, when people don't understand what radiation is, they just can't see it, they can't feel it. They think, well, I could just die at any moment from a magic death ray.
Right. I've had people say, oh, the radiation from their phone is going to hurt them or they're scared of the microwave. I'm like, when you say radiation, do you mean particles or photons? And if you mean photons, what wavelength? And they're like, I don't know what you mean.
They don't know anything about that. Right.
They're afraid of the term. Yes. It's because of Three Mile Island and Fukushima.
Nobody died of radiation from Fukushima. Not one person. True. In fact, but I was asked by people in California, like when Fukushima happened, whether radiation would get to California. I'm like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
And so actually, to help support Japan, I flew to Fukushima and ate locally grown vegetables on TV. And I'm still alive.
I have a friend, he's very smart, but he won't eat fish out of the Pacific because he's worried about the radiation from Fukushima.
Yeah, that's irrational. There is no physics substance to that, I would say, at all. Not even slightly.
I'm going to send him this clip.
Yes.
Go back to the sushi place, bro.
No, you should be. Okay. If you eat too much tuna, you're going to have—. Yes, correct. Mercury poisoning from tuna is a real thing.
You can get arsenic from sardines too. I found that out the hard way. Really? Yeah.
You ate too many sardines?
Yeah, I got my blood work done, and the doctor says, you have arsenic in your blood. And I go, is someone poisoning me? He goes, no, it's very low level.
It's like, is your girlfriend angry at you?
Do you eat a lot of fish?
And I said, yeah, I eat like three cans of sardines a night.
That's a lot of sardines, man.
Yeah, I love sardines.
I mean, it's—.
I love them.
You love sardines? I really do. I've always loved sardines. Okay. I love them.
But it turns out, like, you can't eat too much of it because they—.
Yeah, they're not good for you. Okay. Yeah.
I mean, a little sardines once in a while, but not three cans a night.
Well, for me, it's like, I come home late from the comedy club, and I want something easy to eat, and I don't want to stop eating fast food, so I open up a few cans of sardines. And I'll, you know, watch a little TV, eat a few cans of sardines. I was doing it every night. And then I stopped doing it, and I got my blood work done. a couple months later.
It was gone.
So don't eat too many sardines. Well, I think anchovies really, really pep up a Caesar salad.
Yeah, they do. I'm a fan. I'm a fan. I'm a fan of anchovies as well. One of my favorite pizzas ever is pineapple and anchovy.
Okay. Double pineapple, double anchovy. Wow. It's amazing. It's the sweet and the salty, and then you've got the tomato sauce and the cheese.
It's my favorite pizza. Yeah. It's very good. I mean, as a kid, I was, like, very much against Hawaiian pizza. And as an adult, I like it.
Hawaiian's good, but I'm telling you, anchovies and pineapple is the bomb diggity. That's the bomb diggity.
Okay, I'll give it a shot.
That's the bomb diggity.
Hey, wait. Can we order some right now? Is that feasible?
I bet we could.
Okay, let's try it. That'd be sick.
Yeah.
Have Jeff order a very large pizza with double pineapple, double anchovies. Great.
Fantastic. I'm hungry.
Let's fucking go. Yes, LFG. Let's fucking go.
No time like the present. Enjoy life.
Well, there's got to be a good spot around here. Tell them we'll find a good spot, and tell them it's for us. They'll cook it up.
If they won't,
tell them, we'll mention their name. Tell them, we'll mention their name on the podcast.
Don't tell them, it's us. Yeah. Tell them, it's us. Fuck it.
If they're going to close, tell them we'll mention their name.
What is this salty sauce that's so mysterious?
Oh, no.
Right.
Don't tell them, it's us.
Good call. Yeah, don't tell them, it's us. Make sure you don't buy it from any liberals.
What is this salty, tangy substance on there?
Don't buy it from East Austin.
Don't buy it from anyone who still wears a mask.
There's a lot of them out there. There's a lot of them out there. They're still masked up.
It's wild. Yeah, once in a while I see someone paranoid. On the street? Yeah.
I saw a guy on the street the other day just walking around with a mask on. I'm like, okay, buddy. You look like you're about 28 years old. Yeah. I think you're going to be okay.
Be okay, yeah.
You're probably not going to be okay breathing that fucking same air in that mask and all the bacteria spitting out. Yeah. It's attaching to that cloth.
Yeah. Masks are not like some magic health shield. I mean there are times where a mask is warranted, like if a surgeon is operating on you or whatever, then you don't want the surgeon spitting in your wound. Of course. But most of the time a mask is not good for you.
Yeah, if you can breathe out of it, that means you're breathing in. That means you're also exhaling. So how much is it filtering? What is it?
Particles? I'd say a mask is much like sort of a shield in battle, in that it'll help protect you a little bit from arrows and stuff, but it doesn't make you arrow proof. We're just talking about shooting arrows and stuff. There are times when masks are warranted, but most of the time it's actually counterproductive.
Well, that was one of the things about the old Twitter was the propaganda and the adherence to whatever the CDC was saying and the dismissing of legitimate scientists, guys like Jay Bhattacharya from Stanford and legit guys.
Yes.
And they were suppressing them and even banning them. They banned Alex Berenson. I mean it was wild. They banned Alex for essentially reading peer reviewed papers.
Yeah. I mean all. Twitter was basically an arm of the government.
Yeah. So. Was that shocking? What was that like? Because to me that was the most bizarre, was the Twitter files.
When you let Schellenberger and Matt Taibbi and all those guys get in the response where Matt Taibbi gets audited. I mean, which is just wild. I mean, it's just so blatant and so in your face.
Yeah, it's weird. I mean,
the degree to which, and, by the way, Jack didn't really know this, but the degree to which Twitter was simply an arm of the government was not well understood by the public. And it was, there was no, it was whatever the official, I mean, it was like Pravda. basically. It's a state publication is the way to think of all Twitter. It's a state publication.
And was the justification from their perspective that they are progressive liberals, they have the right intentions, it's important that they stay in power, the progressive liberals stay in government and power because this is their.
There was basically oppression of any views that would even, I would say, be considered middle of the road. But certainly anything on the right, I'm not talking about like far right, I'm just talking mildly right. The people, like Republicans, were suppressed at 10 times the rate of Democrats.
Now, that's because old Twitter was fundamentally controlled by the far left. It was like, completely controlled by the far left. And that's why I say like San Francisco, Berkeley is a niche ideology. It's hard to say like, is there a place that's more far left than San Francisco, Berkeley?
Maybe Portland.
Maybe Portland, but it's like it's a cut.
Right there.
Yeah, it's. those two places are the most far left places in America. Yes. So, from their standpoint, everything is to the right, including moderates.
Right. Right.
But if you internalize a far left position, everything seems wrong to you. that is not far left. Right. And so they naturally oppressed anything that didn't agree with their views. That's why I say that it was an accidental far left information weapon.
So it's like Silicon Valley attracts the smartest engineers, the smartest technologists and programmers from around the world.
They created an information weapon that was then harnessed by the far left, who could not themselves create the weapon, but happened to be co-located where the technologists were.
It happened to be aligned politically with the people that possessed it.
The technologists generally are moderate, maybe moderate left. They're not far left. That's why I say San Francisco, Berkeley. It doesn't even extend to South San Francisco or even to Palo Alto.
So SF Berkeley is the most far left. Perhaps, you know, in a competition with Portland. But I'd say SF Berkeley is more far left even than Portland. Like literally in America. We're talking about an area that's maybe a 10 mile radius.
And so normally the effects, the negative effects of a far left ideology that would be geographically limited to a 10 mile radius.
So any bad effects of that ideology would be geographically constrained under normal circumstances and have been in the past. But when you have basically a technological megaphone, which was Twitter and social media in general, suddenly the far left are handed a megaphone to Earth.
An incredibly powerful technology weapon that they themselves could not create. But they happen to be co-located with the technologists who created it. By accident.
Is it shocking that more people don't understand how dangerous that is?
I think some people understand.
Some people do.
Some people understand. So, I mean, from the standpoint of some people who used to be at Twitter, that people are like, well, it's a big shift to the right. That is correct. It is a shift to the right, because everything is to the right. if you're far left.
Everything is to the right.
But how many far left people have actually been suspended or banned from Twitter now? X? Zero.
So it's really just moved to the center. But from the perspective of the far left, it's moved to the right. Everything is relative.
The difference in moderation.
I should say it propagated that far left philosophy not just to America, but to everywhere on Earth.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah. And with the same level of suppression in other countries as well?
Yes.
But the Taliban is on Twitter, right?
I always think of like, hey, Mr. Taliban, tell him you're banana.
Hey, Mr. Taliban, tell him you're banana.
I mean, but there's definitely some people on Twitter that are.
Daylight coming, I want to go.
Yeah. So the point is, from my standpoint,
is that X, FK, Twitter should represent the sort of collective consciousness of humanity. So now that means that there are going to be views on there that you don't like or disagree with.
But that's humanity. So are you going to exclude them or not? Now, I mean, if somebody breaks the law, then the account is suspended. I mean, if they actively advocate murder, then the account is suspended. We do have what we call like the kind of United Nations exclusion rule, which is that you can have, say, the Ayatollah, who, you know, would prefer that Israel didn't exist, for example.
But he's allowed to go to the U.N. building in New York.
And, in fact, generally officials from Iran do, in fact, go to the U.N. building in New York, even though they're a heavily sanctioned country.
So I think that there's merit to having, just like there's some merit to the U.N. One can disagree with the U.N., and I think we shouldn't have a world government that we bow down to. But, in fact, that's risky for civilization. But I think you do want to have the leaders of countries represented on social media. You want to hear what they have to say, even if what they say is terrible.
Well, I think that is true across the board. And I think one of the things you just said that's very important is that's humanity. And I think it's important that a social media platform, especially the biggest one, represents humanity. so we understand what we're talking about. Because we have this distorted idea of what people think and want and need, because everyone only exists inside this ideological bubble.
And anything outside of that bubble gets censored. Then that changes, literally changes, the tone of the entire country. It changes. what people think is okay and not okay. It makes people feel differently.
It's not humanity. It's different. It's a very forced version of humanity.
Yes, absolutely.
I mean, the whole point of free speech. Free speech is only relevant. The First Amendment is only relevant if you allow people you don't like to say things you don't like.
Because if you like it, you don't need a First Amendment. The whole point of free speech is that, frankly, even people you hate say things you hate. Because if people you hate can say things that you hate, that means that they can't stop you from saying what you want to say. Which is very, very important.
Right, but the problem with Twitter is it was not the case. Correct. It was people that you hate couldn't say.
Anyone they didn't like, they censored. Or what's called de-amplify.
Well, not just de-amplify, but, under the behest of the government, would suppress real news, which was very bizarre. Yes. So they were very aware of something being accurate, and they still suppressed it because the government wanted them to suppress it.
I mean, in my view, there have been severe First Amendment violations by multiple government agencies. And there should be repercussions for that.
And is it – do different laws apply because it's a privately owned social media company? I mean, what laws do apply in terms of like? – when you're looking at it, one of the arguments that the leftists would use is it's a private company, they can do whatever they want.
Yeah, it's funny that when the shoe's on the other foot, they now say the private company can't do whatever it wants.
Well, yeah, now they're upset.
But the government itself is not allowed to censor speech. But in my view, the government de facto did censor speech, and there should at least be a case where that is heard by the public. Because if the government severely coerces a platform, sort, of coerces the press, then I think that is or should be a First Amendment violation.
Well, they can't do it with other media forms, right? They're not allowed to do it with any other – they're not allowed to.
Right, if they try to do that with a newspaper, they're in trouble.
Or would they? That's the question. It's like you didn't know about the federal government. You didn't know about the intelligence agencies inside of Twitter until we found out. Do you think that this is ubiquitous?
It's absolutely – all the social media companies. In fact, right now, X, formerly known as Twitter, is the only one that is not countering to the government. It's the only one. All the others just do exactly what the government wants.
That is wild.
Yes.
What I was getting at, do you think that that's everywhere? Yes. Do you think that that's CNN? Do you think that that's the New York Times? Do you think that that's the Washington Post?
Because if they were going to infiltrate media, they're going to infiltrate social media.
I mean, it is weird the degree to which the media is in lockstep. Like, why is the media in lockstep? And why doesn't the media question the government? They used to. Right.
Why don't they do that anymore? It seems weird. Something doesn't add up.
What do you think? – well, there seems like there's a bunch of factors, right? I think one of the big factors is pharmaceutical drug companies allowed to advertise on television. And we're one of two countries in the world that allow that.
I actually agree with pharmaceutical advertising, provided it's truthful. Because there could be some drug that is helpful to someone, but obviously the claims need to be accurate. So I actually think pharmaceutical advertising, if it is accurate – and I think it actually – to play devil's advocate here – I think pharmaceutical advertising is generally accurate.
I think that's actually okay.
Now, I should say that a lot of the censorship that we see is coming from – indirectly from advertisers and advertising agencies and from PR companies who want a particular viewpoint pushed or are being driven by non-profits to push a particular –. what will happen is there will be a group of non-profits that push advertisers to advertise or not advertise a particular platform.
And often he has a sort of George Soros boogeyman. But, I mean, Soros actually – he is, I believe, the top contributor to the Democratic Party. The second one was Sam Beckford Freed.
And Soros, I don't know. I mean, he had a very difficult upbringing.
And, in my opinion, he fundamentally hates humanity. That's my opinion. Really? Yeah. I mean, well, he's doing things that erode the fabric of civilization.
You know, getting DAs elected who refuse to prosecute crime. That's part of the problem in San Francisco and L.A. and much other cities. So why would you do that?
Was it humanity or is it just the United States as a whole?
I mean, he's pushing things in other countries too. He's doing the same thing? Yeah. Yeah. Now, George, at this point is pretty old.
I mean, he's not – you know, he's basically a bit senile at this point. But, I mean, he – and he's very smart. And he's very good at arbitrage. You know, famously he shorted the British pound. That's sort of how I think he made his first money was shorting the pound.
So he's good at spotting – basically, arbitrage is like spotting value for money that other people don't see. So one of the things he noticed was that the value for money in local races is much higher than it is in national races. The lowest value for money is a presidential race. Then the next lowest value for money is a Senate race, then a Congress. But once you get to sort of city and state district attorneys, the value for money is extremely good.
And Soros realized that you don't actually need to change the laws. You just need to change how they're enforced. If nobody chooses to enforce the law or the laws are differentially enforced, it's like changing the laws.
That's what he figured out.
But is what's funny that this trend – that people haven't pulled the brakes on this? And have it reverse course?
They're pulling the brakes?
Yeah.
Yeah, pulling the brakes right now.
Yeah, you are. But you might be the only one.
Well, I think more people should.
Most people just don't want to rock the boat.
Most people are looking for acceptance from society. And if there's some negative press article, they're like shattered. I couldn't give it up. Go ahead, make my day.
Well, it's fascinating where, if you're a high-profile public figure like yourself, it's impossible to make everybody happy. So there's going to be someone who says something shitty about you. Somehow or another. when it's in print, does that mean more? Because other people are going to see this shitty thing?
Well, I guess... That's where it gets odd.
Because essentially, an article in the New York Times is just a single person's opinion and whatever editor gets involved.
It's just a lot of people will read that. I mean, less people these days than in the past. But I think people know that now. People know that now. I find the New York Times these days to be hard to read.
Well, unfortunately, they make some grave errors. Like that Hamas bombing... Hamas? No. The Israeli bombing the hospital story.
Yes. It's delicious.
I think we should cut off Chick-fil-A exports. That'll bring them to their knees right away.
What are you going to do? Take a chip and dip it in nothing?
What we need to do is introduce them to pineapple and anchovy pizza.
I hope that's coming.
Is that coming? Do we have a pizza name? Like a company? I'll get some information. Is this real?
Pizza Leone. Oh, that's legit. It's pretty close. Okay, there we go. Nice.
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You know, that's something, like, after. I say I've got a lot of respect for. If somebody's, like, willing to make pizza late at night, my hat is off. I mean, that is, like, great.
Absolutely. You know? Late night food. I appreciate the fun. If you can get a really good late night meal, hat's off or wig's off.
100%.
Yeah, I'm a giant fan of very good late night food. And that's one of the things that, like, Los Angeles, really used to have. They had a Pacific Dining Cart where you can get a legit steak 24 hours a day.
Really?
Yeah. I don't know if it's still open in downtown L.A. I believe the one in Santa Monica closed, but a Pacific Dining Cart in downtown L.A. was a legit steakhouse. And you'd get it.
We would leave the Comedy Store 2, 3 in the morning, get a legit steak.
That's cool.
Is that still open? Temporarily closed. Ah, fucking COVID got them.
COVID just took out so many restaurants. It's crazy.
It's not coming back. Their website seems to be down, too. Yeah, they're not coming back. Motherfucker. COVID got 70% of the restaurants in L.A.
at one point.
Wow.
Not COVID, I should say. Policies.
Well.
Lockdowns.
The mind virus. I mean, it's, like, just crazy. Yeah.
Well, that's why I moved here. One of the reasons why I moved here is we came here in May of 2020, and you could go indoors and eat in restaurants. Yeah. And my kids, who were pretty young at the time, 10 and 12, they were like, we want to live here. Yeah.
It's just like they're freaked out. Like, L.A. was weird.
Yeah. It changed. For most of. COVID, I was actually in South Texas building this Starship factory. And, you know, we were just, yeah, no masks, no, nothing.
Just building a factory, building rockets. And, you know, you have teams from California visiting, all masked up. And they'd freak out that we don't have masks. And we're like, we're still alive, man.
Yeah. So. Did you lose anybody? Did anybody from your factory die of COVID?
Not that I'm aware of, no. So part of it is that, like, I kind of saw a dress rehearsal, which is that, you know, it kind of started in Wuhan.
And so Tesla's got 20,000 employees in China.
And so, you know, the first wave happened in China, and we had nobody died or got seriously ill. And I was like, okay, well, like, this is, you know, can't be that bad. And we're not relying on government statistics. We literally know who showed up for work, you know? Right.
Did they badge in or not? And we had no one die and no one got seriously ill. So I'm like, well, I don't know what the big deal is.
Well, there's a problem that people still want to stick to this initial narrative that they believed and that they espoused, like they repeated it. And so they'll still fight you on this today. People still fight you today on the merits of the lockdowns, the importance of vaccine mandates, closing schools. There's people that stated an opinion in 2020, and they still are doing mental gymnastics to try to make it seem like that was the right choice.
No, it was just a panic.
Yeah.
And a lot of deaths got ascribed to COVID. that had nothing to do with COVID. And in fact, I'd say in the beginning, the cure is worse than the disease. So because people panic too much. And so that somebody would get diagnosed with COVID, they put them on intubated ventilator for a week.
And this was going to basically cook your lungs. So if you're on Puro2 under pressure, with a tube stuck down your throat and under anesthetic, this is very bad for you. Like it's one thing if you do that for a couple hours for an operation, but if you do that for a week, it's going to roast your lungs. Like the air that we're breathing right now is 78% nitrogen, 1% argon, about 21% oxygen, and it's so miscellaneous. So if you ask most people, what are you breathing?
They say oxygen. No, you're breathing nitrogen.
Only about a fifth of it is oxygen. And there's about 1% argon.
So I know quite a lot about life support systems, because we make spaceships. And you have to keep people alive in a vacuum. So you've got to say, okay, what percentage nitrogen, what percentage oxygen are you going to do? What's the pressure going to be?
And so, like sea level, pressure is about 15 pounds per square inch. And the partial pressure of oxygen being 20%, is therefore roughly 3 pounds per square inch of oxygen. So in a spacecraft you want to, and especially if you're in a spacesuit, you want to lower the pressure. So you want to keep the oxygen, still. give people enough oxygen to function, obviously, but you want to lower the nitrogen content so that you don't have a spacesuit that's at 15 psi.
Because at 15 psi you just, you know, just pop out like a balloon. It's like hard to move.
So you want to try to lower the pressure, you know, down to around, I don't know, 6, 7 psi, maybe even 5 psi.
So you'd lower it to, you know, try to keep the oxygen, partial pressure of oxygen roughly the same. So maybe around 3 psi and then 3 psi of nitrogen. So you've got 50-50 mix of nitrogen and oxygen. And then you say, it's getting pretty hot under that wig.
I'm sweating.
I mean it's got to be sweaty and itchy.
A little bit.
Yeah.
I can't believe people wear them all day.
Yeah. Anyway, so I know a thing or two about keeping people alive in a vacuum, you know. Right. So, you know, we designed the life support system for keeping humans alive in a vacuum, the vacuum of space, which is very difficult. So we know quite a lot about what it takes to keep people alive.
So you don't want to feed people, you know, 100% oxygen. It's actually, for an extended period of time, this is not good for you.
Well, 80% of the people they put on ventilators died.
Yeah. So, in fact, I actually posted about that because I called doctors in Wuhan and said, what are the biggest mistakes that you made on the first wave? This was early on. And they said, we put far too many people on intubated ventilators. So then I actually posted on Twitter at the time and said, hey, what I'm hearing from Wuhan is that they made a big mistake in putting people on intubated ventilators for an extended period.
And that this is actually what is damaging the lungs, not COVID. It's the treatment. The cure is worse than the disease. And people yelled at me and said, I'm not a doctor. I'm like, yeah, but I do make spaceships with life support systems.
What do you do?
I like that.
I twiddle knobs. I'm like, OK, great. Yeah. Rock on.
Well, again, there was this very bizarre narrative that you had to believe everything that the government was telling you. You had to believe everything the CDC was telling you. And that, even as time went on and we realized, hey, it looks like this came from a fucking lab, like even as time went on, disputing. that would get you banned. It would get you kicked off of YouTube.
I think to this day, there are certain things you're not allowed to say in regards to the vaccine on YouTube.
As I said, the only media that does not have crazy censorship at this point is X, that I'm aware of. Everyone else, everything else is censored.
Spotify isn't. That's why this thing.
Good for Daniel Ack.
Daniel Ack's the man. Yeah, he's great. I love that, too. And, you know, I think more companies should follow suit. I don't think it has to be this way.
Fortunately for us, they're in Sweden. In Stockholm, Sweden, they have a very different perspective.
You've got a syndrome.
On all this shit.
Yeah. What is wild about nitrogen is that that's mostly nitrogen from fertilizer we suck out of the air.
Sorry, what do you mean?
Most of the nitrogen for fertilizer we suck out of the air.
Yeah, yeah. Actually, one of the big inventions in chemistry was binding nitrogen. Nitrogen is actually fairly inert, so it's quite hard to actually pull nitrogen out of there and bind it into ammonia. Basically, the process for creating ammonia was actually very important.
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