#2166 - Enhanced Games

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Gentlemen, good to see you.

Good to see you.

Please introduce yourselves.

I'm Dr. Aaron D'Souza, president of the Enhanced Games.

And I'm Christian Angamayer, co-founder of the Enhanced Games.

And this is a very exciting idea. And how did this come about? What was the impetus behind this?

I've been studying the Olympics and the Olympic movement my entire life. You know, I'm 39 years old. when I was an undergraduate at university. It was just after the Sydney Olympics. And, you know, it was always something that inspired me.

44%?

44%.

And the other, you know, probably lying, are losing.

Exactly. And so, you know, and then I learned that the average American Olympian only earns $30,000 a year. And I thought to myself, there's something really wrong in the system. And instead of, you know, trying to reform it, let's take a blank slate of paper and invent the third Olympiad from scratch.

Well, the Olympics is kind of a scam because it generates billions of dollars in revenue. And the people that are there to perform make almost none of that.

That's correct. Actually, the International Olympic Committee doesn't pay any of the athletes. Incidentally, they may get some money in sponsorship or from their National Olympic Committee. But ultimately, the billions of dollars in revenue come into the Olympics. And none of that goes to the athletes.

And you could do it apolitically, too, if you chose to. Are you guys doing it by nation? Are you doing it just like human beings?

Human beings. Better. Yeah, I think the era of nationalism is over. Look at the Eurovision Song Competition recently.

What is that?

It was when, you know, Israel was performing and there were huge protests out front of the competition.

What was the competition? It's a very European thing. It's called European Song Contest. Song? Contest.

A song contest.

Yes, it's every country every year makes a very cheesy song. Oh, God. I actually like it. Let's not go there. I'm kind of a fan.

Is this already here, Jimmy? Most recent winners of the Eurovision Song Contest.

She's amazing.

She's amazing. It's Noreen.

She's amazing. Okay.

It's very catchy songs. I don't know what your song is.

She's crawling around with her butt up in the air.

Well, it's very campy.

I guess.

But there is even a cool Netflix movie about it. But long story short, unfortunately, this was the first year where it became really political, which I think music shouldn't be, which was sad. But we will not be political. That's the short version. We're not going to go per country.

It's just so many countries use it as a political tool. And they cheat. I'm sure you guys have seen Icarus, right?

Yeah. I was with Brian Fogel a couple of days ago.

He's great. And that documentary is amazing. I mean, what incredible circumstances. Like the way it all played out, where he's in the middle of doing this documentary about doing a race naturally and then doing a race enhanced. And the guy contacts.

He's a witness protection.

Yeah. Still in this country, hiding from Russian killers.

Yeah. And that's right. And I think the reality is that performance enhancements are everywhere. 6.3% of men in the Western world have used anabolic steroids at some point in their life. 75% of men who regularly go to the gym are interested in using steroids.

But what are the legal ramifications of this? Because we were talking about this in the pod. We were talking about the different drug schedules on the podcast yesterday. And steroids are scheduled, right? It's like schedule three.

Yeah. It's a schedule. three substance. in the United States. There are 23 countries where steroids, anabolics are legal, including in the United Kingdom for personal use.

Because there's a lot of things that are like peptides and things along those lines that are illegal in the Olympics.

That are banned in the Olympics, but they're not scheduled substances.

Because that means the Olympics decided as a sort of private organization, we don't want that, but you can take it. Right.

So legally you can take it.

So, like TRT, for example, is a perfectly legal substance. It's FDA approved. It's delivered under clinical supervision. But if you used it, you would be banned from Olympic competition. Right.

The UFC had a guy that accidentally took something that had DHEA in it. A real high level guy, Khalil Roundtree. And he was supposed to be fighting Jamal Hill in three weeks. And he found out that there was DHEA in it. He informed the UFC, told them.

So, if you go into your local GNC, 25% of the goods will contain substances that are banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency.

25%.

Yeah. So these are just off the shelf. Right. This is not black market. This is what you can buy in your local shopping mall.

And then, of course, there's tainted supplements, which is a real problem. Because a lot of these supplements, they use another party that puts them together for them, generally in other countries. And a lot of them in China. And these people are also making different things with these vats. They don't clean them properly.

Exactly. Well, that's the excuse that the Chinese government used about the 23 swimmers. Are you aware of this situation?

What's this?

So, 23 Chinese swimmers tested positive TMZ, which is a heart medication. And they claimed that this was because of a...

When was this? How long ago?

Oh, just six weeks ago. Oh, really?

It came out six weeks ago. Oh. The incident was earlier.

Yeah. So, 2021.. But, yeah, the New York Times reported it.

Received no sanctions. Yeah. 13 athletes won Olympic Games in Tokyo, won six medals, three of them gold. Huh. Well, they definitely did something during Beijing, too.

Well, the Chinese clearly were doing this intentionally. And the World Anti-Doping Authority, because of pressure from the Chinese state, covered it all up. And that's not my accusation. That's the accusation made by Travis Teigard, who's the CEO of the US Anti-Doping Agency.

Okay. So, the premise is, let's cut the shit. Yeah. You guys are... There's been people that do...

And if you look at the 100-meter time, it's the fastest man in the world. Seven of the top 10 fastest 100-meter runners in history have had a doping violation. And the only one that's not in the top five is Usain Bolt.

Wow. So, it's just a scam.

It's a scam, yeah.

And we've been hearing that for years about sprinters, particularly sprinters in other countries, that they're enhanced. And especially if your national pride is involved, and they know that there's ways that you can kind of finagle things and get around them. And you hire doctors to test people and use masking agents or whatever the hell you do. And the UFC, they don't even let them rehydrate with IVs anymore.

Yeah, same thing in cycling. So, if you take more than 100 milliliters of IV within 12 hours, it's considered to ban something.

Well, you can't do any IVs in the UFC.

Really?

Yeah, they won't let you. Because of the fear of masking performance-enhancing drugs, because you could flush your system. But the problem with that is, like, IVs are good for you. Like, this is really stupid. Like, if you can make sure that a person is just doing IV vitamins, I mean, if your random testing is effective, you should just do that.

Yeah. And so, the solution is not to do drug testing. It's to do health testing. Like, we want to make sure that our athletes are healthy and safe to compete. So, we do cardiac screenings, MRIs, blood work to measure their biomarkers to ensure that they're within healthy ranges.

Here's the question. If you open up the gates and say you're allowed to take whatever substances you want at whatever levels you want in order to compete at your very best, how close to redlining does a person get? You know, especially if you're involved in something that requires strength and explosive energy. We've had – one of the things – the UFC, at one point in time, had testosterone use exemptions. And you were allowed to get those if your testosterone was at a low enough level.

You can beat that test in a heartbeat. Just stay up all night.

Stay up all night, eat 15 cheeseburgers, and jerk off three times, and you're good. You're going to be at like 200.. You're going to be like, oh, my God, you're sick, Bob. But also, there's another problem is that people that have a history of anabolic steroid use, generally they wreck their endocrine system. And particularly back in the day, the early days of MMA was all enhanced.

But it comes down to a fundamental philosophical question. Shouldn't an individual with free and informed consent, an adult, be able to make choices about their own body?

They should. But the question is, when? is it not fair?

It's the epitome of fairness if it's very transparent. What is unfair, think about it like you winning silver in the current Olympics. And I talk to so many athletes. They kind of know who is cheating or not, because if you are very like into sports, you know what is kind of let's call it unnatural or enhanced. Right.

And from 1896 until 1992, the Olympics banned professional athletes from competing. And so the Olympics were amateur and there were professional sports leagues elsewhere. And I think the same thing is going to happen in the 21st century. The Olympics are going to be the natural sports competition where we're going to see what the best of a human 1.0 can do. And at the enhanced games, there will be what can the best unleashed human superhuman can do.

But here's the question. If you guys are successful, what? what athlete would want? if you guys are successful and it becomes a huge household name and people watch it and it becomes exciting and you make money? What athletes are going to want to do the Olympics for free and get a microscope up your ass and people constantly testing you for this and that and knowing that other countries are probably pulling off some shenanigans, like China allegedly did?

Not our problem, but I agree with you. Like, by the way, the same question is.

It's a good answer.

But I don't want to. I don't want to not wish them well. Like, it's just like. I think we're going to do better. And, and the other thing is, by the way, I deeply believe, humans are wired.

But it's like the rise of the UFC. So the UFC was unbridled by the traditional rules of boxing and other combat sports. And, you know, the simple premise that Roryong Gracie had was, how do we find the very best fighter? And that's just a very simple question. And at the enhanced games is how can we find the fastest human being?

So how do you get with? there's a lot of factors, right? You need people that have already competed. You know, you know, you don't want to get someone just starting out at a sport. Right.

Right. Well, they actually could go back to the Olympic system, but they would get so tested.

And if they do, I mean, if they do start taking testosterone, do start taking a bunch of other things, it's going to inhibit their natural ability to produce hormones.

But technically, most likely it comes back. But I would say it's a decision of the Olympics and other sports leagues how they want to handle athletes who also at a certain time have participated in our games. Maybe they say there is a cooling off period. So it's not that we will exclude them going back. It might be that other sports leagues say, look, if you're in the enhanced games, you can't come back to us.

And it's fundamentally an economic question, too. So your average Olympian is earning $30,000 a year. You know, the best performing track and field athletes might be making a couple hundred thousand bucks a year. And, you know, we're offering a million dollar prize for to break significant world records.

So it's a million dollars just to break the world record?

Yes. A million bucks to break the 100 meter world record on the track. A million bucks to break the 50 meter freestyle world record in the pool.

So the question is, like, how can you ensure that you're going to get elite level athletes that are capable of performing at like an Olympic level? And they're going to? they'll be risking. It's a big. it's a significant risk to them, because they'll be openly admitting they're a part of the enhanced games.

Well, so, number one, you don't have to take enhancements to be at enhanced games. You can just be a regular person. You can be a regular. Genes. Yeah.

Sort of. You're not going to the moon. It's going to be cool. You're just getting a bunch of guys juiced up running really fast.

Big difference. But still interesting. Yes. I would say, breaking a world record is is a thing. Maybe not going to the moon, but like it's a, it's something people aspire to do.

Well, it is. It's also. we'll know for sure that these people are doing something. Whereas before we just suspect it, you know, I remember when Ben Johnson got popped and everybody's like, oh, I can't believe he cheated.

But then you find out that Carl Lewis was taking stuff, too. I think everyone on the starting line in the nineteen, eighty, eight hundred meter final was.

They probably all were. You know, Bruce Jenner took him famous and he talked about it like taking him when he won the decathlon.

And, by the way, one thing is that we don't even need to speculate if athletes want to do it, because we did a so-called casting call. So we're doing a documentary about the way to the enhanced games together with Ridley Scott. So we made a big casting call and we have more than a thousand professional athletes, many of them who are in the summer Olympics, who applied to be in the documentary and hence in the enhanced games. So the question, if this is an appealing proposition, is answered. So, more than a thousand.

What about the pressure from countries like different countries that have elite athletes that compete and sprinting and whatever boxing?

I spoke to two head of states about it. One is a very close friend and he texted me every week. He's like, I can't wait for this to happen. He's one of our early fans.

So they're into.

Well, at least the ones I spoke to. I don't think there will be a lot of pressure, because, again, what do countries want? What is sports for them is a way to show their national pride. And if you have national pride, you want your person to be the fastest person in the world. Right.

And it's also a point of national pride. It will be a point of national pride to be the most technologically and scientifically advanced society. Yes. That has the engineering and intellectual capability. Right.

It's actually what is interesting, like when we teamed up, Aaron had the idea to talk early. I have my own investment firm, so I'm both the investor and its co-founder. We both were actually calculating with much more negativity in actually a good way, because it's driving our recognition. So, but I'm always jokingly saying it's almost going too smooth because people love it. Like the only people who don't love it is the Olympics.

Well, it's also. everybody knows that athletes are taking things. They've been doing it forever. You know, before USADA came into the UFC, there's an actual. A lot of people studied the difference between certain fighters that were competing at an incredibly high level.

Yeah, you just got to know the half-lives of the products that you're taking.

And everybody knew that that was the case. And so, instead of going your way, they went the way of just crawling up everybody's ass with a microscope, and they do it. USADA was doing it in a very intrusive way, where they were waking up fighters on the day of a weigh-in early in the morning, because they'll show up at 6 o'clock in the morning.

And it's because USADA is not accountable to anyone. The International Olympic Committee is not accountable to anyone. It's a really important question about how the structure of sports internationally works. Do you know who appoints the members of the International Olympic Committee? So, logically, it should be member countries like the UN, or maybe the athletes should elect members of the IOC.

Yeah, that makes sense. What are the sports that you guys are going to showcase? And will you have combat sports?

Yeah, so there are five key sports. Track, swimming, combat, gymnastics, and strength.

Combat sports, you can have boxing, wrestling. What are you going to have?

So boxing and MMA are definitely in.

MMA? Yeah.

Really?

Yeah.

Hmm.

That's interesting. So MMA, if you're going to have people being enhanced in MMA, that will severely limit their ability to compete in other organizations. So how are you going to get high-level fighters that are not going to compete in Bellator or not going to compete in the UFC? How are you going to do that?

Well, I think the entire MMA community is clearly moving away from the traditional drug testing apparatus. Look at what UFC has done, moving away from that.

No, no. They just moved to drug-free sport, which is just a better organization. It does the exact same thing. They're doing the exact same things. The exact same things are banned, including peptides like BPC-157..

Yeah. And so in terms of athlete recruitment, there's such a wide pipeline. The difference in terms of with MMA and combat sports is there's no objective world records. So it's solving for a fame question, not a performance question.

Right. It's to be one of the people that does it. So have you talked to athletes about that, combat sports athletes?

We've had. in the casting call that we did, we had maybe about 15% of the athletes were in the combat disciplines. Really? Including ex-UFC athletes. Yeah.

Ex-UFC athletes. So guys at the end of their run? Yeah.

You know, that's where performance enhancing drugs are very appealing, right? Sure. You know, you've been in your career, you know, you're sort of 30, 35 years old and people say, you know, you're out of it. You should be retired. And they're saying this isn't now, with the emotional maturity that you have in your 30s, to regain the body in your 20s and to come back to compete at a high level.

It's also the wisdom. It's not just emotional maturity. It's like accumulated time, sparring, accumulated time in different scenarios, where you just know what's coming next. You don't have to think about it. It's programmed into your system.

It doesn't even look like the same person.

It doesn't. All of his muscle went away, and all of his endurance went away. His endocrine system was shot from years of doing TRT and just whatever else he was doing.

And what I would caution about that is having the highest quality clinical and scientific supervision. So the problem about the current environment is that it's largely done underground. Very few athletes have access to high-quality doctors. Most of the information is what I call bro science on bodybuilding.com forums.

Or gym guys that tell you, I got you, bro.

Yeah. Someone on Instagram. So what we're trying to do is a very rigorous scientific and medical process to ensure that we gather high-quality clinical data. We share it, and we're going to publish it in the top journals. And we have a scientific advisory board.

And when you do this, so you're going to have combat sports, so you'll have MMA. You'll have wrestling. Not sure.

Not sure about wrestling. We're still open to ideas. in terms of the pool of athletes that we can recruit. Wrestling is increasingly a niche sport. The participation numbers are down.

But you're having sprinting and all these other games, too, right?

Yeah. But, you know, we are inspired in some ways by the Olympic Games, but we don't want to be held back in history like the IOC is. Right. They're like, oh, it must be every four years. Right.

So you'll have boxing?

Boxing, certainly.

The only worry that I think people would have is that giving someone substances would allow them to hurt someone more. It's like it's different. And I know what you're saying, like the other person gets them, too. So but it's a discussion, right? If someone runs faster because you gave them something like no one's getting hurt there, you know, maybe reputations are getting hurt, whatever.

But isn't that the wrong moral discussion? Because then we shouldn't.

Pull up to that mic real quick.

Isn't that the wrong discussion? Because we shouldn't then do boxing if we don't want to allow people to hurt other people.

Ultimately, that's the real discussion.

Exactly. But I think a lot of discussions are always pseudo discussions where we can have a real discussion. Should we have boxing? But like it's the same ethical power, slap. Right.

But don't get me started. Oh, my God. And then, but the other one is that maybe it's actually safer for the athletes. If they're enhanced, because maybe they can recover better. Maybe they can take more punishment.

Yeah. Certainly what is appealing, particularly to older athletes, is reducing recovery time.

Yes. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's a significant thing for guys, just as they get into their 30s if they're still competing as a professional. They realize, like, I, don't recover as well at 34, even though I'm still in my athletic prime in terms of ability to perform. Their ability to put in work in the gym is not quite the same.

I can tell you I started the whole process. I always, when I start a company, I want to feel it myself, what is really what I'm talking about. It's not just like, so. I'm going through the enhancement process of an athlete myself. And it's unbelievable.

Yeah, it's really strange that that's looked down upon.

Yeah. I can't really understand it. No, I can't really understand it. It's like, I think it's a natural right. Like, you want to be at your best at any time in your life.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I think another aspect of this whole thing is what you said initially. We all know that the Olympics are dirty. We all know that we, anyone who's seen Icarus, and if you haven't seen, I really recommend it. It's amazing.

But imagine the scientific potential of all of that research, if it came out into the open, in terms of anti-aging in particular. The same compounds that allow individual athletes to run faster and jump higher are the ones that will allow us to be younger, faster, and stronger for longer. And I think that's a very admirable aspiration. Look at Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Yeah, openly enhanced and works out with jeans on, which is odd, right? The jeans thing is so weird. Like, what are you doing, man?

But also, by the way, it's an important point. I think a lot of people always put enhancements into just the vanity pocket, which is, by the way, and I think it's a very legit pocket because, for example, I'm doing it more for vanity. But if you look at older people, like sarcopenia, like rapid muscle loss, whatever, is a problem for many people, and we take it as normal. We're like, oh, it is normal that you're losing muscle mass. And I was like, no, we can do something.

And with the current state-of-the-art science, too. It's like, what is the point of having all this knowledge and functional ways? There's absolute ways to enhance the way your mind performs, your body performs. And to chalk it off to vanity is so crazy. Like, well, what about fashion?

Do you know what the legal definition of medicine is?

No, I do not.

So it's a fascinating thing. I only learned it a couple weeks ago. So in the 1920s, the Carnegie Foundation commissioned a sociologist from Johns Hopkins University, Professor Albert Flexner, to go and study medical education. And so it used to be, back then, that anyone could call themselves a doctor. Really?

Damn, I missed the boat.

Yeah, anyone could just read some books and call yourself a doctor. And after the Flexner Report, it was decided by state legislatures that we had to regulate what it meant to be a doctor and what medical education was required. And the definition of medicine as a result of that is that medicine is about the treatment and cure of disease. It's making sick people less sick.

Right.

And if you walk into your doctor and you say, I'm a healthy 39-year-old, but I'd like to be extraordinary, he would say, I'm sorry, medicine legally cannot help you.

Well, wasn't this the reason why ProVigil and NuVigil, when they first came up with those, I believe they came up with them with the idea of them being a performance enhancing substance. But then they didn't have a way to prescribe them. So they used narcolepsy.

Yeah. You mean modafinil?

Modafinil. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. It's interesting stuff, right?

No, it's like, I think it's like, by the way, I always tell that at universities, when I give a speak, that's the real mind or intellectual enhancement drugs, because it doesn't make you chittery, whatever.

Do you stack it?

With?

Nootropics?

Yes. I do a lot of things. Yes.

He's the one that's more enhanced. Ask him about his stack.

But I think, again, but it's a good example. Like, why do we say for students or whatever, oh, it's bad, if you try to be the best? And why is a substance, modafinil, which is, by the way, wildly studied, which is there since decades, every single neuroscientist in my team, in my biotech sector, I talk to is like, this can be taken safely in moderate amounts. And all of that. Why are we, like, shying away to discussing that?

Is there a large body of research on long-term use of modafinil? Yeah?

Enormous. Like, trust me, because I take it. Yeah. I looked at it.

Are you on it right now?

Yes.

How do you feel?

Great.

Right. They should have the choice. Just like they have the choice to drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes.

By the way, which is way worse. Of course. He might have even been on the show. Like, a good friend. is Professor David Knott.

Where is he from?

From the UK. If we can pull it up. Like, he made, he wrote a whole book. That's my favorite sort of take on how fucked up our society is in terms of drugs. He wrote a whole book about the risk of drugs.

Wow.

And then comes everything else.

That's per user?

So they just, on a total societal risk analysis. So the paper is published in the Lancet, which is the top medical journal. And if, Jamie, you want to pull it up, it's called Drug Harm in the UK, a Multi-Criteria Decision Analysis, published in the Lancet in 2010 by Professor David Nutt. And it has this amazing chart, which I'm looking at.

By the way, I like your little logo. It's pretty dope.

Thank you.

So, by the way, I urge every listener, because that's a little bit. my passion, is to make people at least aware. And then you can decide, by the way, that you drink alcohol. I'm not saying I would ban alcohol. But I think people should be aware of what they're doing.

Look at the drop between alcohol and heroin. Heroin is way less bad for you than alcohol.

So, by the way, but I want to be careful, because that actually would got him in political trouble, because one magazine wrote, which is, by the way, the wrong takeaway. It said, oh, the drug advisor of the UK government said, heroin, take heroin or alcohol, whatever. Heroin is the second worst.

So mushrooms?

And, by the way, that chart has a very emotional, emotional thing for me. Because I was presented that chart in 2013.. And guess it or not, I have never drank alcohol in my whole life. Really? I'm from Bavaria.

Well, I'm glad. That's something that we've been discussing forever. I mean, it's something that got squashed in 1970 by the sweeping Psychedelics Act. And it didn't make any sense.

I think it was the biggest crime, one of the biggest crimes the government back then did. Because, if you think about it, like all the data we're producing, it has the potential to heal. Really, I'm using the word healing deliberately to heal mental health issues like depression, anxiety, addiction. So, if you think about it, that a government scam in 1970, which was a pure political scam to discredit the hippie community because they were going against the Vietnam War, that that took away one of the most potent groups of drugs, medical drugs, for mental health issues. And then you look, at our time, how prevalent mental health issues are.

And I think one of the best paths that MAPS has put forth is helping soldiers, helping soldiers with PTSD. And that's been a great way to get through the door, because, you know, the veteran community has been dealing with it for a long time. And I think it's shifted the perspective from a lot of these people that are more conservative, that would normally think of drugs as being for losers and bad for society. And they have a different perspective on it. now.

No, it's a medication.

Yeah. Well, it's really entheogens. Yes. You know, what they are is when you experience it, anybody who experiences it would not want it to be illegal. The problem is the people that are adamant about it being illegal are the ones who aren't experiencing it.

I agree, and you might have seen that it was one of the problem of the advisory board meeting of the FDA some days ago when MAPS presented their data. I don't know if you followed it.

I did not.

Unfortunately, it was a very sad moment. It's not a decision yet because the FDA is going to decide on August 11th on MDMA. But the advisory committee hearing, which was public, recommended not to approve MDMA for post-traumatic stress disorder. It was a big outcry. But the reason is also I want to be a little bit self-critical for the psychedelic industry, because I'm a huge believer.

Nothing lost. What's going on with marijuana is interesting in this country because at this point, 24 states. Is it 24?? 24 states? We talked about it yesterday.

I want to make a big sort of plea that psilocybin or in general psychedelics and cannabis should not be mixed together. People instinctively do that because it's kind of the same history. It's so-called illegal drugs which now becoming, in one way or the other legal. But if I look at it, I have a very sort of strong opinion. Psychedelics are very strong substances in a very good way.

I understand. I understand where you're coming from, but here's what I would say about that. First of all, two things. One, you can take psychedelics in microdoses and it's very effective. It's very helpful.

What do you mean? Compared to psychedelics?

No, the difference between THC and 11-hydroxymetabolite. No. Okay. When you eat marijuana, it produces a completely different chemical when it gets processed by your liver. And it's called 11-hydroxymetabolite.

Okay, so I just want to be mindful that we're not mixing things. I didn't want to oppose marijuana. No, no, no. I didn't think you were. It's something just different.

You were talking about it the same way – you were opposed to talking about it the way you talk about mushrooms.

Because mushrooms are – I mean it's technically a different mechanism of action. So it might have the same or similar feelings. But I think it's a different mechanism of action. If you, by the way, pull up the chart again of David Nutt. So the amazing thing with mushrooms is that the only risk, which you saw with the small pinkish sort of thing, is that you fall down the stairs and hurt yourself while you take it.

Yeah, but that's –.

Cannabis is way less than alcohol. I just want to say it's –.

But I know people that have blown their brains out with psilocybin and with LSD as well.

I cannot imagine – we have a whole team which is following up that sentence. if somebody says that. And literally for like – since when are we doing that? Since 2018.. Every single person we could find online and chat boards or whatever, whom we contacted, who said, oh, I have any side effects.

What positive factors are they searching for?

Increasing concentration, increasing creativity, like, all sort of the anecdotal evidence.

Did they try skills games? Study of LSD microdosing doesn't show a therapeutic effect. But, look – How was this performed?

What I'm saying is, like, we need more work.

I'm just saying microdosing – I want to hang out with these people and ask questions.

But I give you the positive ending you're going to like. But, like, what I'm saying is, like, by the way, think about, again, Brian's work. People never microdosed psychedelics. People macrodosed psychedelics.

Right, but it doesn't mean that there's not a benefit to microdosing.

Yeah, but I would say, microdose, do you one treatment a year, you get all the benefits, by the way. Because there we know you get neuroplasticity. There we know you get all the positive effects of it. But second, what you need to be just mindful is, like, there was a study some days ago. If we can pull it up.

Right, but isn't the poking the heart effect due to the large doses of stunning experiences that you're having when you're really tripping on, like, 7 grams? We don't know. We don't know.

We don't have the data. The only thing I'm putting out there is that everything I'm saying is, like, what is really important. And I'm saying that as really, like, one of the most passionate people about psychedelics. That we cannot or we shouldn't abandon the….

Microdosing chocolate bars.

No, stop. I know that study. That study is about a polluted chocolate bar. It's another thing. There was a brand which put in stuff which is not what they think.

Microdosing a chocolate bar.

Which is also a really important point about all drug use, right? It's a wonderful book by Professor Carl Hart from Columbia University, Drug Use for Grown-Ups.

Yeah, we were talking about him yesterday.

Yeah, and it's like, you know, America's drug problem is a dosage and an adulteration problem, right? And so we want to think about the issues that we have at hand in our society. It is almost always about adulteration. Like, no one goes out to seek out fentanyl, right? Right.

I swear there was something about psilocybin, microdosing and skills. This is the LSD thing. It says that they were not told what drug they were on. And then here's the results. No performance on cognitive tests.

It's not for microdosing?

This is the microdosing, either during drug sessions, or did they use some sort of IQ test? Puzzles? What did they do? It says cognitive test. Yeah, I'm just wondering what they did for cognitive tests.

The main thing I'm saying is that microdosing could be. the only plea I make is, like, let's treat psychedelics with the same sort of rigorous scientific lens. Like, we treat anything else. By the way, that's my whole, like, how I marry my libertarian view, and sort of my scientific view is let's just prove things. Science is awesome.

Right. Yeah. It's just, it's body. autonomy is what we're really talking about.

Once we have proven it. Exactly. But you want body autonomy. Yes. You want to have people that data to decide on body autonomy.

Sure. So I always make the point that individuals with free and informed consent, adults should be able to make decisions for themselves, but that free and informed consent comes from data. And like a good example, I assume you've used creatine at some point in your life, just like virtually all athletes have. When creatine was first came onto the scene after the 1992 Barcelona Olympics, like you, should read the headlines. It was like new super steroid infecting our sports, like headline from the independent newspaper.

What year was this?

1992.

Now we take it all.

I take gummies. I take creatine gummies every day.

Yeah. And it was banned in the Irish and French rugby federations. Wow. It was seen as- Cheating. It was worse than cheating.

Wow.

And the headlines were just unbelievable.

That's crazy. That was just 30 plus years ago. Yeah. Nuts.

And thankfully creatine didn't fall into the black zone like steroids or psychedelics, right? Yeah. Where moralizing got in the way of scientific data.

Now let's talk about the enhanced games. in terms of long-term plans. Like how are you guys funded and how long can you stay open? Like, do you have a long-term strategy? Yes.

We've raised millions of dollars in the world's top venture capitalists, Christian included, Peter Thiel, Balaji, Srinivasan.

Right. But do you have a plan as to like how long to do it?

Oh, this is a century long project for us.

It's not a pop-up event, like it's going to be forever.

I understand. But what if it's not successful? Like, what if the first one comes out of the gate? Like how are you going to make the money? Are you going to use sponsorships?

So number one, we will raise enough equity capital so that we can run the games for at least three years without any media rights, corporate sponsorship, or ticket sales. Of course, we will grab all those revenue drivers, and that will make us a profitable endeavor. But fundamentally, we have enough equity capital to make sure this thing really works and is delivered for a long period of time.

So for three years, you just run it till the brakes fall off?

Even if we don't. But what I can tell you, what I was actually a little bit surprised positively is like we got inbounded by big brands. We were actually calculating in the early days. We said, ah, it's going to be controversial. We don't think a big, whatever, outdoor brand or whatever big sportswear brand will sponsor it in the first year.

And so in terms of brand sponsorship, so Nike, their core mythology is that the fastest people in the world wear their shoes.

I like how you say their core mythology.

Yeah, the core mythology, right? And then, this is very simple. Eventually, the fastest people in the world will be at the Enhanced Games. And if they're not wearing Nike shoes, that can undermine that $100 billion brand. And so if you're a challenger shoe company out there, you say, oh, come, sponsor this Enhanced Games thing, right?

It's an interesting way to phrase it, core mythology. Now, when you guys, when is going to be the first Enhanced Games?

At the, we're targeting for the end of 2025.

And do you know where you're going to do it?

So this is a question journalists always ask me.

You need to do it at the Sphere.

The Sphere is.

Not an uneducated guess.

Not an uneducated guess.

Oh, really?

Hey, I like it. So the journalists always ask, well, where's the Enhanced Games going to be? Because they think of it like the Olympic Games. They think, oh, you need a host city where you have 12 stadiums. And there are very few cities like that.

Has the Olympics, have they responded to you guys?

Yes.

What did they say? I can't wait to hear this.

So, you know, it's interesting. So publicly, they don't like us, obviously. But the fact that we are paying the athletes has really changed the dynamics of Olympic sports. So Lord Sebastian Coe, who is the president of World Athletics, came out and said that athletics will pay $50,000 for a gold medal at the Paris Olympics. And read the coverage.

So gold medals in the enhanced games are a million. Breaking a world record is an additional million?

No, no, no. The world records are a million. And the, you know, there'll be base compensation negotiated with each athlete, probably around 100 grand.

But you just said gold medals a million.

No, no, no. Award record is a million at the enhanced games. A gold medal in track and field at the Olympics is 50,000.. Right.

I think pretty sure you said it, but I think you just scrambled it. So what is first place in like boxing?

To be determined.

To be determined? Yes. So you're going to negotiate it with different athletes? Yeah.

It depends, you know.

If someone has a big social media following, someone's famous.

Yeah, yeah.

And LeBron wants to play basketball for you guys.

Exactly, exactly. So, and some sports are more compelling because of larger viewership or that they have, you know, multiple disciplines.

So are you planning, do you have a plan as to how to stream it? Are you guys going to do YouTube? Are you going to have your own platform?

So we have been approached by every major broadcaster in the world. And the overarching message is they're like, this is going to be exciting television. So the three most watched sports event in the world, number one is the FIFA World Cup final. Number two is the UEFA Champions League final. And number three is the Olympic 100-meter final.

Well, it's definitely, I mean, if you guys can really come out of the gate guns blazing and put on a tremendous show and captivate people, I think you're in.

Yeah. And, you know, that's why we've raised millions and millions of dollars from the world's top venture capital funds. So we can deliver an amazing broadcast experience, recruit the best athletes and ensure that, you know, we make a television package that's really, really compelling. And for the networks, they want to buy a five, 10-year deal because they're effectively taking it back. The Olympic television rights are worth four billion per games.

Wow.

And we live in the era of peak television rights right now, you know, like Amazon, ABC, TNT, they're all bidding for the NBA rights. And, you know, two NBA games on Christmas Day are worth a billion dollars. Right. And this is an absolute sweet spot. Right.

It's good. Well, I mean, it's really interesting because if it does take off, it might legitimately change the way pharma companies interface with these particular substances. They realize they're going to be extremely popular once they see how well people do. Especially if you get athletes that are in their 30s that may be washed out of MMA organizations and they start competing at an elite level again. If you start seeing people breaking the world records in sprinting, they might go, hey, why don't we revisit this?

Yeah. And think about it like the whole world is abuzz talking about artificial intelligence. The total value of all the generative AI startups, including open AI, is $200 billion. Ozempic and the GLP-1 drugs have added $1 trillion to the market capitalization of Nova Nordisk and Eli Lilly. So one enhancement drug is worth 5x all of artificial intelligence.

And it's a dumb one.

Yes. But it's a progress. By the way, I use that always as the same example. I think pharma, and that's my core industry, biotech and pharma, is going through a fundamental change because of GLP-1s. Because they realized that enhancement, they're not using that word, but they're all thinking about it.

Why are you taking it?

Because it's outsourced discipline. That's it. Yeah. It's like I'm eating a little bit less. I don't need to think about it that much.

But the consequences, the negative side effects. I've had good friends that have had very bad side effects. Gastrointestinal issues.

I don't have it. By the way, that is, again, my answer is always like everything has side effects. The coffee you just gave me has side effects. The Diet Coke. The whatever.

And you know that Ozempic and the GLP-1s are prescribed in the United States off label 83% of the time. Yeah.

So, there's 83% of all. people don't take it for the original use. They take it for vanity whatsoever. And that really changed the way pharma CEOs are looking at medications. It's exactly coming back to what Aaron said.

So, I couldn't agree more. Yeah.

And I come from the view that aging is a disease that we should be able to treat, cure, and eventually solve. But that's not what medicine is about. So, legally, aging is not a disease. So, a doctor cannot prescribe you medication against the clinical indicator of aging. Aging is a normal biological process and is just accepted by the field of medicine.

Well, I think, then in that case, I mean, especially, looking at Ozempic and these drugs that are used off-label, the fact that they're incredibly profitable and the fact that they are being used mostly for people that just want to lose some weight and look better, that's really probably a good sign for the future of how these substances are at least allowed to be used.

Exactly. And at the first enhanced games, athletes will break world records.

You think so?

I think so. And I'll park that up for a second. But when that happens, everyone's going to say, what is he on and how do I get it? Yeah. Because it's no longer going to be scary.

No, he didn't. No. Also, everybody shouldn't be on EPO. No, not everyone. That's a dangerous one.

No, but talk to your doctor about it. Talk to your doctor. And so why will world records get broken at enhanced games? It's actually pretty simple. Okay.

So I didn't know that. So they make the athletes stay at the athlete's village and it's just real loud and crazy and they're partying?

Yeah, that's right. Because the vast majority of athletes who go to the Olympics have no chance of meddling. Oh, so, they're there for the party. They're just there for the party. And you have all these beautiful young people.

Right. And they're all athletes. They're all horny as hell.

They did literally a press release some days ago where they said they're just going to do single beds in order to avoid people having sex. It was like whenever in university life has a single bed avoided that people have sex. It was one of the most dumbest ideas I've ever seen.

That's hilarious. That's like just say no. That's such a dumb idea. People have sex in the woods. What the fuck are you talking about?

No, there was then two conflicting news. The other one was more hilarious, with the single bed.

Yeah, you just realize it's a stupid idea.

But then there were all these headlines. I saw some days ago that a blowjob before sports is actually increasing your testosterone. Really? So, yes. Google it.

Why specifically a blowjob?

I don't know. But I was like I take it. I take it.

It's good.

Wait a minute. Giving or getting? Okay.

But why would that?

I don't understand why that particular kind of sex would do it.

I ran with it. I was like. I like the headline.

I shut the laptop when I read a good headline.

Exactly. I take it. Let's not be too scientific on that one.

Yeah, why fuck around?

I made a screenshot, using it every day.

Yeah, that's it. Start arguing. So, now we have how many sports?

So, five sports.

Five sports.

So, track, swimming, combat, weightlifting, gymnastics. Those are the five core sports that we've identified that have the highest television and social media impact with the lowest infrastructural cost. We don't need to build specialist stadiums. So, you know, like I love velodrome cycling. It's a sport that I did myself.

What is velodrome cycling?

Track cycling.

Oh, it's like around the loop?

Yeah, that, like, you know, a few thousand people in the whole world participate in it. It's a pretty niche sport. Most sports at the Olympic Games, the total number of set professional, semi-professional participants is very small. So, you know, things like rock climbing, skateboard, you know, there aren't huge participation numbers for these things.

So, people are going to be heartbroken that synchronized swimming is out.

Yeah, you know, curling, bobsleigh, you know.

Curling is one of the silliest ones of all time.

Yeah, and curling is participated by less than a thousand people worldwide.

The interesting question, though, would be if people on psychedelics would be better at synchronized swimming, because it's like bringing you in.

Yeah, interesting.

But we save that for later.

Are you familiar with beta blockers?

Yes.

So, do you know that classical musicians use beta blockers? About 75% of professional orchestral musicians have used beta blockers. No. Right? So, beta blockers are a banned substance under the World Anti-Doping Code.

That's interesting. I wonder why professional orchestra musicians would find that helpful.

It allows them to focus.

I think their hand gets more stable. As my guess, I'm not a musician.

Interesting. Because I wouldn't think that they would be, especially in a large group of them, they've been working together, they practice, I wouldn't think they'd be that anxious.

I don't know. Have you ever performed on stage at Carnegie Hall?

I performed on stage at Madison Square Garden. Oh.

Yeah. They test for them in archery events. And here we go. There's the concertmaster of the Chattanooga Symphony Orchestra right there. She's openly talking about using a banned performance-enhancing drug.

I want to try them. That's how it works. That's how it works. You read an article, you're like, hmm, what's the side effect of beta blockers?