Make Decisions With the Future in Mind (Not the Present)
2024-07-03 01:57:58
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, personality, number one, best-selling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, and PhD in counseling. He's my co-host today.
Open phones at 888-825-5225.
. Marie is in Washington, D.C. Hi, Marie. How are you?
Hi, Dave. I'm well. How are you?
Better than I deserve. What's up?
Yeah, so I'm calling because I'm wondering if I should be more forthcoming about my financial situation with my parents in order to gain, I guess, credibility on the topic of personal finance.
Why do you need credibility from your parents?
Yeah, so over the years, I've tried to share the baby steps, because I've had success with them, and nothing has quite stuck. I've gifted them the book, in print and in audio. I've also gifted them budgeting app subscriptions, and even still, I've watched them make bad financial decisions over the years. And recently, my dad started talking about Roth IRAs, and I was surprised that this term was in his vocabulary.
So when I asked him what spurred him on, he was telling me about this YouTuber and TikToker that he's been watching. And as he was showing me the videos, I couldn't help but think, like, gee, my dad is more like willing to listen to a random stranger on the Internet over his own daughter.
That's probably always going to be the case. You're suffering from what we call powdered butt syndrome. Once someone has powdered your butt, they don't want your opinion on money or sex.
Generally speaking, I mean, it's a rare parent relationship on a rare subject that the kid speaks into the parent's life until the parent is somewhere around 80.
. It does sometimes, but you're never a prophet in your own land, Jesus said, right? And this is your land. So it's very, very, very difficult. The only, and I'll just tell you, the vast majority of my family, Sharon's family, does not do the stuff we teach.
Oh, wow.
Tens of millions of Americans do, but not my people.
So I mean, they like what we do. They think it's impressive and they're proud of us for helping people. But you know, there's a handful of them do it and the rest of them don't. I'm just saying. And so they just kind of look at us like we're, you know, vegetarians or something, like.
we're weird, you know what I mean? And so, anyway, the only hope you've got is not to tell them what to do, which is what you're searching for credibility on. Your only hope is just to tell your story and say, you know, Dad, I was out of control. I was in chaos. And when I started doing a budget, I had this experience.
And then I started working these baby steps, and then I had this experience. And now, gosh, I know you'd be really proud. I mean, now I've got X number of dollars in my 401k and this stuff really worked for me. And I'm just, I'm just so excited. And I, and you just tell your story, don't even bring them up.
If they then say, well, that'll never work for me. You could just say, well, probably might. It might. if you want to talk about it, I'm here to help. But then please just have your expectations really low.
The secret to happiness is low expectations. I don't think you're going to have a, unless it's a very unusual situation, a high percentage of the time, you're not going to have a high influence over your parents.
Can I tell you why, Marie?
Yeah, go for it.
Because this is not a you problem. This is a him problem.
And I love the fact that you have been searching high and low for what you're doing wrong in communication, but you're not doing anything wrong. He's pretty lucky to have you as a daughter.
Yeah. Yeah.
He, just, he literally can't see it.
I just don't want you to have the expectation that he's going to suddenly go, oh, that little girl that I taught to ride the bicycle in the backyard is now a millionaire.
You know, it just, it, our brains just don't work that way very well. It's very unusual. I'm thinking of my grown kids right now who've got great relationships with, uh, they, you know, run segments of our life, our business.
And I, um, I've been in the room when they try to tell Dave what to do, and it's incredible.
Generally doesn't go well.
It does not go well.
It's just like, I mean, I, you know, and even though, you know, sometimes if they do it three or four times, I'll hear it, but the first time even, and I'm in a room where I'm asking for this, but no, it's, you know, especially when you get on a personal level, and that's in a business situation.
Here's where, um, Marie, here's where you can elevate the whole, the maturity of the whole interaction.
Do you want to tell your dad about this, this Ramsey plan and this get out of debt plan? because you want him to look at you at the end of the day and be like, man, you really saved us. You did a great job. Daughter. I'm proud of you.
Thank you. Or do you want him to learn about the Ramsey stuff, this plan, because you want your dad to have a better relationship with money and to finally have peace inside his home. Because if that's what you want, wherever he gets this information, let's cheer him on for it. If he gets it from a TikToker and he comes to you and says, Hey, I'm going to pay off all my debts, and maybe that TikToker is George Campbell, by the way, but I'm going to pay off all my debts. I'm going to start putting some money in some Roths.
Let's exhale. That's our ego. And let's just be happy that dad's making some better choices with money. If it's about, Hey, I need him. This is going to be my avenue for him to be proud of me.
Finally, have that conversation with him. Ask him directly, daddy, are you proud of me or do you think I'm doing a good job just as an, as a young adult, let him have that conversation, but don't use this as a proxy. Otherwise you're going to make yourself bonkers doing that.
Yeah. Yeah. And, and please really don't expect for you to be the solution. If it is, it's, it's wonderful, but it's highly unusual. And the only possible way, with the people closest to you, is to not tell them what they're doing wrong, but instead just tell them about your story.
No one can argue about your story. This is my story. This is what I did. This is when I was scared. This is when I goofed up.
And when I changed that and I started doing this other thing, it started working, and here's where I am now. And this is, and then I went through this and then I sold a car and then I did this and then I did that. And you just walk through your story. It's your story. Nobody can debate your story.
You can debate the theoretical probabilities of the baby steps, but you can't really debate your story.
And you especially can't, um, I think we talk a lot about the trees, Dave, you can't debate the fruit. And if people see you always picking up the tab at dinner and you drive in a car that you don't owe any money on and you just bought a nice house that you put 50% down on, like they begin to ask that question, what are you, what are you doing differently? It's the same in our church circles. We always tell people no one's ever started following Jesus because they lost an argument. They just see that, man, that guy's, got more light and joy in his life.
I want to learn about that.
So you mean hateful Christian posts on YouTube. don't lead people to Jesus?
I haven't seen it yet.
I haven't seen it yet. So, you guys, in the comments section, it's not working for you. Who knew? Now, there you go. This is the Ramsey show.
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Happy birthday America, you big, beautiful beast you.
Absolutely incredible. Best country in the world. You don't believe me? Try visiting some of the other places. You'll come back here going, oh wow, we got warts, but we're gorgeous.
Unbelievable. Wow. Very cool. Hey, 4th of July flash sale right here at Ramsey. from today through Sunday, July the 7th.
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You'll see all the goodies going on there. It's a deal. There's some deals. Tyler's in Houston, Texas. Hey, Tyler, what's up?
Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. My wife and I watch your show all the time and we love what you're doing and what you stand for.
Thank you, sir.
And yes, sir. Yeah. So I had a question for you. I'm dealing with, you know, some fear and anxiety, I guess, which with potentially buying a new house. So my wife and I, we purchased a home in 2020 in a lower income, lower tier schools.
And we have two little girls, 4-year-old and a 2-year-old, looking to get them in some better schools and getting them in a different area. So we currently right now owe $199,000 on the current home. We could probably sell this one for around $300,000 to $320,000.. We currently have a 2.9% interest rate, so we're paying about $1,500 a month. The new house is about $390,000..
We could probably bring that down to $370,000 with a 6.
75% interest rate. So that's putting us around $2,500 to $2,800 in payments, which puts us within that 25% to 30% wheelhouse that you're looking at. I'm getting about $10,000 a month, so $160,000 to $170,000 a year.
We have no debt, a $35,000 six-month rainy day fund.
So I'm trying to decide if this is a right move or not.
It is. It is. You need to do it.
Okay.
Yeah, you're fine. Because there's two things that are going to happen in the future. Three things that are going to happen in the future, maybe. Two of them, for sure. Number one, your income is going to go up long-term.
Agreed? Yes, sir. Number two, the house value is going to go up long-term. And in a better neighborhood, it's going to go up more than in a not-so-good neighborhood. Agreed?
Yes, sir. Okay. So both of those things are going to make this a smarter investment. every day after you buy it. So your point of greatest strain is the first day.
And every day after that, the strain diminishes. Follow me? Yes, sir. The third thing that could happen is rates could go down and you could refinance.
Right. So we marry the house. We date the rate. The mortgage is not permanent.
Okay.
You're not stuck with the mortgage.
It makes me feel better hearing that from you, because I've been beating myself up over it.
I think you're being wise beyond belief compared to your neighbors, compared to the average American walking around right now, who would have just went, yo, give me that. I want that. I'll take one of those. and yeah, an adjustable rate mortgage while rates are going up and stupid butt statements like that. And so that's, you know, because I want one and I deserve it, and I have a smartphone that gives me everything I want.
so no one can tell me no about anything. And they go buy crap they can't afford. You're not even close. You're not on that spectrum, dude. You're being very wise.
So your anxiety is just due to you being reasonably conservative and you're thinking about this. But, and you know, and if your anxiety makes sure that you do a budget and it makes sure that you don't overspend on a bunch of new furniture or something when you move into the house, or going to debt to buy a new car after you move into the house or something silly like that. If your anxiety tempers your stuff, then the anxiety is doing its job, right, John?
That's exactly right. Does that sound good, Tyler?
Yes, sir. Yeah. I, you know, before I met my wife, I was, you know, as Dave said, spending like I was in Congress and making some poor decisions. And then, you know, now that I have a family, two little girls, I think, you know, that, that weight of that.
Good husband. Good dad. Yeah. Good dad. Yeah.
Yeah. You're showing up for your family, man.
Yeah. Like it's, it's throwing up the caution flags. Are you thinking this through? Are you doing this right? So it's, it's, it's doing its job and we're going to do the next right move.
I'm getting awfully close to the edge here. I'd kind of want anxiety to tell me that, right? Because you're on the, you're on, your numbers are on the bubble. You're right. You're, you know, you go much further up than this, you're going to have a problem.
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir. You know, you're, you were right. You walk right up to the edge of the, of the guidelines and maxed them out. But I think you're going to be okay. I really do.
I, you know, as far as would, would the Ramsey show folk, me included, tell you to do this deal? Yeah, we just did. So. that's simple. Open phones at triple, eight, eight to five, five to two, five Jesse's in Los Angeles.
Hi, Jesse. How are you?
I'm doing well. How are you?
Better than I deserve. What's up?
Um, I actually have a question about my, uh, current 401k.
Okay.
And it's a, uh, traditional 401k and I'm wondering what to, if I'm able to take my traditional into a full, full off 401k.
Yes, but you'll have to pay taxes on it.
Oh, okay.
There's no penalty, but there's taxes. So what's the balance?
Uh, the balance, it's two, 226 K. Okay.
So you're going to need 50 grand. You got an extra 50 grand laying around.
Uh, not currently.
No, then I wouldn't do it.
Okay.
Today. And now what you can do is, is change your contributions from this day forward into Roth.
Oh, okay.
And will. that, will the same, it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't change anything. Then you just say, okay, the, the money I was putting into the 401k traditional. Now I want to put it into 401k Roth and that's fine. That doesn't cost you anything.
Um, I mean, it's going to, you may have a little bit of a tax bill, but it's tiny, tiny, tiny. Then, later on, when you get your house paid off and you got some extra money, if you want to flip the rest of this over and you got some extra money and you want to get it growing tax free, then yeah, it's a good move to do it. But it's not a good move. Uh, you know, like while you're trying to get out of debt or while you're trying to do other stuff. Yes.
And on a side note of that, I have to thank Dr. Galoni. I called not too long ago, sold my truck. You said to sell it on the weekend, sold it. And I'm just went from a $50,000 debt to 22,000..
Whoa.
Nice move.
Way to go, man.
Jesse in Los Angeles selling a truck.
My baby, it was, but I need her.
Did you cry just a little?
Not a little.
I did. I saw that Jaguar all those years ago. I cried just a little. I was that little too attached to a dadgum car.
Are you married, Jesse?
I'm not. I'm not. I'm single. Wow.
Man, you really stepped up. I'm proud of you. Good for you. Yeah.
Not a lot of single guys selling their trucks, man. You just moved up even more cool points, brother.
Yeah. Yeah. I think you're like a grownup and stuff. Way to go, man. I'm proud of you.
Good work. Very good work. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. So the Roth, when we're talking about putting your money in your retirement and baby step, four, 15% going into retirement and good growth, stock mutual funds. I spread mine, and I suggest you do too, across four types.
Growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. Pick good long track records, preferably 10 years or longer, so you've got predictable environment for these mutual funds. Then you can project what you're going to get out of that. The best place you can put money is where you get a match. The second best place to put money is Roth, 401k, Roth IRA, because it grows tax free.
The third best place is traditional. So it's almost rock, paper, scissors, but it goes only one direction.
Match beats. Roth beats traditional. So you max your match out. You max your Roth out until you get to 15%. If you're still not there, and one of your spouses only has a traditional available, then you do the traditional as your last step to get to the 15% and baby step four.
I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.
This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is Deloney, and I'm always railing against social media, especially in the summer, because everyone uploads the highlight reels of their perfect bodies and perfect vacations and perfect kids. And I know they're not real, and I also know that I'm blessed beyond my wildest dreams, but I still find myself wishing my life was like other people's. And, based on the data, I know this is happening to you too. Comparison is wired into us, but comparison can also become the thief of joy, because we can feel like we're not enough and begin acting and thinking in ways we would never think otherwise.
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In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, we do the show every Monday through Friday from 1 to 4 Central Time. You're welcome to come hang out, watch, have a free homemade chocolate chip cookie, some free coffee, and watch the show. And it's free to watch, and some say it's worth what you pay for it. So there you go. On the debt-free stage.
in the lobby, though, is Joseph and Candice. Hey, guys, how are you?
Doing great, Dave. Hey, we're great.
Excellent, excellent. Welcome. Where do you all live?
So we're just outside of Atlanta, Georgia in Stone Mountain.
Oh, yeah. I know it well. Well, cool. How much debt did you all pay off?
We paid off $47,500.
Cool. How long did that take?
About 16 months.
Good for you. And your range of income during that time?
We started at $107,000 and got it up to about $120,000, with some side hustles and pay raises.
Cool. What do you all do for a living?
I'm an IT specialist at a Christian school. And I'm an elementary school librarian. I'm at a public school.
Awesome. Very cool. And what was the most lucrative side? hustle, the one you made the most money at?
We actually did a cleaning side hustle where we went to a small business and did cleaning for them. So that was for...
That's really.
. Yeah. You can make good money doing that. Yeah. Yeah.
And it's hard work, but it's.
. Man, it's amazing. Well, cool. Yeah. Very cool.
Good for you. What kind of debt was the $48,000??
We had student loans. I had about $3,500, and then she had some from undergrad. And then I also had a personal loan that I had used to start a small business, but since I have closed that.
Ouch. Yeah.
It was a life lesson.
You close the dream and then you get to pay payments on the dream. Yeah. That's called a nightmare. Ouch. No fun at all.
Wow. How long have you guys been married?
About three years. Just celebrated our three-year anniversary in June.
Okay. So after you're married about a year, you look up and go, debt is everywhere. I've had it. Tell me about your. I've had it moment.
What was it brought you to the where you go, okay, we're doing this?
Well, I had heard of you since I was in college. FPU was actually taught at the church I was going to, so I was familiar with Ramsey. But we didn't really actually get into it until we got married. I had picked up the book, The Total Money Makeover. I read it and we had talked about it.
She listened to the audio book. And from then on, I took out that personal loan for the business. That was really the I've had it moment. It's like I felt like we went back $20,000 from where we're already at. And, you know, you see the payments just kind of increase and stuff like that.
So it's like something's got to give here, right? So we went through Financial Peace University a second time. Yep. Had to do it twice to kind of get it through and really get us on the plan.
Well, I mean, there's before marriage, after marriage, right?
So went through it a second time together, kind of like New Year's resolutions. And we just went, gazelle intense. We got the EveryDollar app, started budgeting. Had been budgeting on paper before that, but EveryDollar is way better than paper. So really, from that point on, we were gazelle intense and took everything we had, basically learned to live on one income and throw the rest of it at debt.
So, Candice, when Joseph goes after something, he kind of goes all in. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So at what point in this process did you decide he wasn't crazy? Instead, you wanted to go all in.
Pretty much the same. After the personal loan, I think it both hit us at the same time. And we looked at each other and said, okay, we got to do something about this.
Yeah, this ain't cool. It's not cool. Something's got to give.
What was your biggest fight as y'all worked through this? I don't think we really had a huge fight. I think really it was the personal loan. It was a little bit of a debate as to whether to take it out, because I was trying to kind of keep the business alive and stuff like that, to kind of pay for, you know, employees and stuff like that. So it was really like, do we take it out?
Don't we take it out?
And, you know, so we ended up doing it. But when we kind of got on the same page and everything, it's like, okay, let's just get rid of all of this and let's just do it as fast as we can. So, Joseph, that was the most husband answer.
We didn't really have a fight. Let's be clear. Candace told him not to do it. Let's be clear. And he didn't listen.
And he had a spreadsheet and he was like, no, no, you don't understand. Here's what's going to happen. And she was like, I don't feel good about it. He's like, no, no, you don't get it.
This is a classic.
Then he was like, do you want to take FPU again?
Candace, if you talk to Sharon Ramsey, she'll tell you I did the exact same thing. It's okay.
It's all right. So when you're sitting at the kitchen table, who wins the great debate in your home, private school versus public school? I feel like we're both on the same page in that, you know, like, I mean. You don't have to answer that. You're good.
One of y'all will get fired if you answer that honestly, so we can just let it ride. Thanks, John. Never do that.
That's not good. Way to go, guys. I'm so proud of you. Who was cheering you on as you were doing this?
Definitely. We have a great church family. I have some coworkers that have been through FPU and are actually Baby Steps millionaires. So once I kind of told them that I was going through this process, they were, you know, checking in on me weekly. Like, how's it going?
You know, her parents, my brother, it was just. we had a great support group.
Very good. Very cool. All right. When people say, how'd you pay off $48,000 in 16 months, what do you tell them? the key to getting out of debt is?
I would definitely say, if you're married, working together, being on the same page. We had budget meetings every month and sat down and talked about it to be sure we're on the same page. We both had every dollar to keep each other accountable. So definitely, good teamwork and communication. And I would just add to that just having perseverance, because life is still going to hit you, even when you're going through this debt payoff journey.
Like, for example, I actually got in a car accident last August and my car was totaled. And you're so tempted to take that insurance money and just be like, oh, let's just do the easy thing. Let's go down to the dealership, you know, put a down payment on a car, call it all good, wipe our hands. You know, but I didn't do that because we were in this and it's like, I can't do debt anymore. You know, I'm done with debt.
So I just took the money I could and bought, you know, a beater car and still driving it today. But it gets me from point A to point B. So, you know.
What are you driving?
I'm driving a 2007 Honda CRV with about 200,000 miles on it right now.
OK, cool. What'd you pay for it?
About $5,000.
OK. And how much insurance proceeds did you get from the total?
$4,700.
Oh, wow. So that was it. You were already driving a beater.
Yeah. Yeah. I was driving a 2000.. I was driving a 2008.. It's amazing how God works.
I was driving a 2008 Honda CRV with about $275,000.
. Crash that, get a 2007 with $200,000.. So I rolled back the miles and, you know, it's a year difference, but it's, you know, the LX brand. So it's got, you know, the heated seats and the sunroof. Dude, that car is halfway home.
You're going to have that car for a long time. That's pretty cool.
Yeah. Heated seats, sunroof, and a beater. I know. Yeah. They didn't make beaters like that back in the day.
All right. Way to go, man. You guys, that's good stories. Good stories. Well done.
So proud of y'all. How does it feel to be free?
It feels amazing. We feel like we can do anything now. Yeah. It definitely brought us closer together. Like, once we've done this, like whatever we put our minds to, there's, it only gets, it goes up from here.
You know, it's really exciting to, we're working on the baby step three right now, doing the fully funded emergency fund. Should be done within a couple months, but just, you know, continuing to have those dream meetings and realizing this is actually doable. This is possible. And to, you know, folks watching and listening, like just get started, you know, don't wait another day, just do it. Yeah, man.
And Joseph, what's the biggest lesson you learned? I know what it is. I can answer it for you. She's probably right. Yeah.
Listen, listen, listen to the wife, for sure. Yeah. You know, you'll have another scheme one day and she'll just look at you and then you'll go, oh yeah. All right. You're right.
Right. Right. We'll remember. Look, look back and be like, let's not do that again.
I remember that.
Congrats, guys. Thank you.
I think she gives him the FPU look. I like it. Yeah. Way to go. You guys, way to go.
So proud of you. Very, very cool stuff. Joseph and Candice. stone mountain, Georgia, $48,000. paid off 16 months, one Oh, seven to one, 20, including side hustles, cleaning the local small business.
Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.
Three, two, one.
This is how it's done.
Wow.
Life is good.
Pretty cool. John.
Yeah, that's so cool. Three years into their marriage. It's fun being, um, almost 20 years past that. And they don't even realize how they've set themselves up.
I think he kind of has a glimpse of it. I think he thinks he does. I can see it forward.
But man, when they're multimillionaires 20 years from now.
Encouraging some young couple just got married to pay off their student loan debt. Or their car, their leftover loan from a failed business. Whatever. Yeah.
And he's still be driving that Honda CRV because it'll still be going.
It probably will. It'll still be going.
I hope he's not driving it. This is the Ramsey show.
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Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, Personality is my co-host today. Joe's with us in St. Louis. Hi, Joe.
How are you?
Hi. I'm sorry. I'm really nervous.
It's okay. We've never lost a patient. You'll be okay.
So I'm 19, and for all of my, for my two years of college that I've gone to so far, my dad has controlled all of my savings money, and he invests the big chunks of it and tries to make more money.
He's been emotionally abusive in the past, and he's decided in the last year that he does not want a relationship with me whatsoever.
He wants to cut me out, but he doesn't want to give me access to my own savings. And so I'm wondering, as an adult, if that just doesn't feel right, if he chooses not to have a relationship with me, should he have control of my money? And also, he won't, he's legally obligated from the divorce to provide me with a car for work, and he won't give me a straight answer if he's going to give me a car to take to school. And then I can't get a job, and I'm a baby step two, so.
Okay.
Your money and your savings, I assume he and your mom saved this money, or did you put the money into the account?
Actually, it's my money. Growing up, the rule in my house was you have to put half of whatever you make into savings. He's like a big fan of yours.
So I've been putting half of my money into savings, and I've worked really, really hard.
Is your name on the account?
I don't know. He says that it's my money, but I've never actually seen the account.
You just gave the money to him when you were a kid?
It was in my, yeah, when I was a kid, and then when I got a bank account, I put it in my savings, and then he would take out money whenever it got over a certain amount, and he'd put it in the investment.
Do you know what bank it's in?
Well, the bank that I would put it in was the local credit union, but I don't know where he's got it.
You think he's moved it out of there?
I know he, I can see the bank. I know that he's moved, like. he's told me he has like $13,000 in the investment, and I've asked him for access to it, but he just sends me pictures of statements, and then he got mad at me for not thanking him for making money on my money.
So if he took money out of an account with your name on it, I'm assuming his name was also on the account as a, if you were a minor, and he took money out.
Yes. Well, I guess it's going to be a joint account.
It could be. he's a custodian of the account. that's in your name. If you can find, if you can figure out, wait a minute, he sent you a statement. Yeah.
So you know where the money is?
Uh, well, I haven't looked at it yet.
Okay. Well, you know where the money is. Contact that financial institution, if your name is on the statement, and take the money out.
Okay.
That's easy.
And if you open up an account.
I assume it's got your name on it.
No, I bet not. I bet he opened an account of his own and moved it over there, pulled it out of that credit union and stuck it over in his account, because he's going to quote, unquote, make a bunch of money on it.
I don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure this guy's that smart.
The first thing you need to do is figure out if you can figure out where the money is, and if it is your name on the account, it's a simple thing. Just walk up to the teller window and go, uh, my name is Joe, and here's my social security number. I want to, uh, I want to close this account out and take the money out.
And just take my money back in, even though he's supposedly helping me?
He's not helping you.
He just said he's cutting you out.
You just told me he wasn't helping you. I don't care what he supposedly is doing. I mean, the reality is you're telling me he's taking your money. That's what you're telling me. So all you're going to do is just not allow that to happen by moving it.
And you need to pull all the money out of this joint account you'll have and open your own account.
Yeah. Anything you can find that has your name on it, you're one of the owners. You have access to the money. You're 19.. Legally, you can walk up and just cash out the account.
Just cash it out. Okay. And take the cash to somewhere else and open it exclusively in your name.
And Joe, you want me to tell you something else kind of cool? Yeah. What college do you go to?
I go to St. Louis University.
Okay. I would be willing to bet almost every college these days has an office called Student Legal Services that helps students with things like traffic tickets and roommate disputes, but there are attorneys that serve students. I want you to go sit down with them and ask them about the divorce decree. Ask your mom to send you that and tell them, I need this. And hopefully, here's what we're looking for.
We're looking for one of those attorneys to write you a letter.
Or write your dad a letter.
Write your dad a letter on your behalf that I need my money back per this statement, and I need access to the car per the divorce decree. And he's going to receive a letter from an attorney, and you've already paid for this attorney with your student fees. Okay. And if you can't find the SLS office, the Student Legal Services office, go ask your Dean of Students office, and they'll be able to direct you.
Yeah. So you have a lawyer that's on staff to help you for free is what he's saying.
Well, it's not for free, but you've already paid for him.
It's not going to cost you any cash. That's right. Yeah. But first and foremost, open those statements and figure out where the money is. Go to that credit union and cash out anything that's in your name there, and open that statement and see where he, quote, unquote, invested this money.
Get in touch with that investment outfit. If it's got your name on the account, your Social Security number on the account, you're one of the owners, simply cash it out.
And then that puts you in where, if you get all of that done, then you're just in the heartbreaking deal of dealing with an emotionally abusive dad who doesn't want a relationship with you. That's the horrible thing.
And I'd like to just put this out into the world to clarify something. That man is not a big fan of, quote, unquote, Dave Ramsey.
He wouldn't be if he called here.
Well, there's a financial principle.
It wouldn't go well for him.
But you also honor your children, and you also honor your spouse, and you honor your word, and that man doesn't do any of those things. Yeah.
I mean, if he's a fan, it's at a distance, because if he got up close, it wouldn't be pleasant. Yeah. That's just wrong. I mean, it's just, it's, so, but, you know, what we've got is a divorce, and everybody's mad, and everybody's hurt, and everybody's throwing stones, and, you know, kids hurt, moms hurt, dads hurt, everybody's hurting, and hurting people hurt other people. And, you know, that's what's going on.
So who knows exactly? But, yeah, either way, you know, you've got to play through on these things.
And it's not, you know, you need to make decisions, folks, in these situations that play well over a 10-year period of time, not a 10-minute period of time, because these are bad. They feel good in 10 minutes. I don't want a relationship with you. I'm a toxic jerk. Those are all short-term thinking.
I mean, no one on their deathbed is glad that they lost their relationship with their kid.
Not over $13,000.
Good gosh.
Or the ego of having reinvested it for you, and you're not grateful.
Give me a break. This whole call reeks of ego, ego, ego, ego.
You're ungrateful. I was trying to help you. Yeah, I could do without your help.
Instead of sitting by his daughter and saying, hey, I know you're in college, but your mom and I just got divorced, and we just blew up your entire world. And it's going to be hard for everybody, and I'm hurting. Instead of that, which is an emotionally mature response, it is, oh, you didn't make me feel good about what I did? Then, fine. Screw you.
I'm literally going to steal from you, and I'm going to hold it, because you can't do anything about it.
Dave, I can't wrap my head around it, man.
All for your own good, though.
That's the one.
My daughter Josephine will be here later on, and we're going to spend a few days together, just us two, and I can't ever wrap my head around making a choice that I'm going to break up this relationship.
She's not a teenager yet.
That's probably true. That is probably true.
The thought will occur to you.
No, trust me. The thought has occurred, but man, I just can't wrap my head around it.
I told one of mine, you might talk to your mother that way, but no one talks to my wife that way and lives. Oh, yeah.
That was the teenage years.
Can you imagine a Ramsey kid having a mouth?
You can imagine that, can't you? I can. That could happen.
The fruit usually bounces up against the tree trunk on its way down.
Oh, I love it. This is The Ramsey Show.
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, personality, number one, best-selling author of the book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, PhD in Counseling, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225..
Jennifer is with us in Tampa. Hi, Jennifer, how are you?
I'm great, how are you?
Better than I deserve. What's up?
First of all, I'm very grateful for you guys taking my call, and I have probably a lot to unpack here to fully understand the financial picture that I'm in. I've known your name for a long time, so I basically have a lot riding on this phone call, where it will probably change my life and be one of the— just totally turn my life completely around.
My dad is gone, and I don't have him anymore to ask financial advice about, and so I figured you would be the next best thing.
Wow, that's a lot of responsibility.
Yeah, you've set this up big, Jennifer.
Don't screw it up, John.
Dave is probably going to give you bad advice, Jennifer, but I'll bail him out.
The funny thing is, I'm pretty sure that I already know what you guys are going to say.
Oh, okay, that makes it easier.
It does. I'm 37.. I'm a single mom, recently single, mom of four kids. I'm a nurse. I make a decent income, a pretty decent income.
When my parents—I've actually lost both of my parents now. When my mom died, I inherited money from that split between me and my sister. My dad was very financially savvy and had things split all around with just different 401ks, Roth, life insurance, food insurance, gold. Very, very smart man. And in the loss of my mother, I made a financial decision to sell my house and move to my childhood home that my parents raised us in.
And moving there meant that I sunk just about every dime of my inheritance into remodeling it and fixing the property up, because when my dad died, my mom kind of just got swallowed up in this home. My question is, I am only, between mortgage and student loan credit card debt, I'm only $320,000 in debt, which sounds like a lot, but the house is worth $1.1 million.
Why do you have a mortgage?
My parents had a little bit less of a mortgage on the property because—.
Okay, how much is that?
It's $125,000.
Okay, and then the rest of the rehab on the house was done in cash? Correct. Okay. What did you spend on the renovation?
I owe my sister $125,000 as well, because that was kind of like the buyout for me taking over the house. So basically, I have essentially like a $250 mortgage on the house, if that makes any sense.
Yeah, I got you. Okay.
Okay. And then the rest of that is student loan and credit card.
And what's your sister's expectation on when she gets her money?
It has changed. So neither one of us knew what to do really when we lost our parents with the money, and it has changed over time. Initially, it was that I would pay her $50,000 a year, until what I owed her was paid off. And then we realized, well, that puts me in a certain tax bracket, and then I'm going to be taxed on this income, and it just kind of didn't really seem fair. So then, the next plan that my sister and I have—.
You're not going to be taxed on the income. She is.
But it's not income.
Well, no, I would be taxed on it, because the money I would pay my sister came from the investment account that my parents had.
Oh, you would pull it out of an inherited IRA. Okay, okay.
Correct, yes.
All right, I got you. So how much is in the inherited IRAs and that kind of stuff today?
Today, right now, everything is essentially gone. It may as well be gone.
Oh, you've used it all. You've cashed it out and paid the taxes after all. And what do you make?
Yes, I have. I make $45 an hour. It changes by year, based off of what. In Florida, we can get seasonal here with snowboards and such.
So you're making, what is it, $80,000 a year?
Yeah, it's usually that at least.
Yeah, okay. And how old are your kiddos?
20,, 17,, 5, and 3.
I started very, very young.
Okay, all right. Okay,
and so you have $120,000 mortgage, $120,000 owed to your sister, and then you have other debt as well, right?
Correct.
And that's on what?
58 in student loans and 10,000 in credit card.
Okay, all right. Well, if you were not emotionally attached to the house, you would have already sold it, right?
So that's kind of what I figured you would say. To be free.
Because I could turn around.
Yeah, if you were not emotionally attached to this house. So the house is like, it's out of, everything else in this picture, fits in the picture, then there's this house over here. that's way big, you know, in terms of value. And if you didn't, if it was not a childhood home, you'd not renovate it, you weren't emotionally attached, you would have already sold it and cleaned up the mess before you called me, right?
I thought I was doing the right thing at the time.
I didn't ask that. I'm not picking on you. I'm saying, again, let's pretend you, this house was somebody else's house and you didn't care about it. You're not emotionally attached. If you woke up this morning in a house you did not care about in any way, you would have already sold it today and you wouldn't have called me.
To clean up all this, right?
Yeah.
Yeah. But the only, so, the only thing that's keeping you there is all of the history. And that's valid. That's part of the story. It's valid for that to hold you.
The only question is what, you know, basically, then, you got the scales in front of you. on one side of the scales is the history and the memories, and the part of your childhood you're trying to recapture, which was apparently a good family, a good upbringing, you, you know, huge respect to your dad. Several times your house kind of represents all that on one side of the scale. On the other side of the scale is the stress over money. The debt owed to your sister, that now you don't really have a way to pay unless you go get a mortgage.
And the stress of this whole thing. and your future is on the other side of the scale. So your, it's almost like your past is on one side and your future is on the other.
Exactly.
That's how it feels just talking to you. So what are you going to do? So what are you going to do?
I,
I feel like if I sell the house and I'm a hundred percent debt free for the rest of my life. Yeah.
And that I feel would be.
And I think that's the daughter that your dad raised.
Okay.
Didn't he?
I've, I have a lot of guilt because I spent the money that they earned.
You didn't spend it. You invested it in renovating the house. It should have made the house more valuable.
Oh, it certainly did.
Yeah. So you're not, it wasn't, it wasn't consumed. You didn't take a cruise around the world. No, I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't the money's not, you didn't burn the money. It's invested into the house.
You're going to get it back out. So I don't feel guilty at all. Um, I think you were doing a very sweet thing and honoring thing to your wonderful childhood. Um, and then I think the next step is to honor the legacy of your dad and mom by having an awesome future. I think the future wins on the scales.
If I'm you, Don, what are you thinking?
Yeah. I think in one fell swoop, he could, she could honor her dad by setting herself up for the future. She could honor her mom and dad by healing up that relationship with her sister and getting that debt out from between the two of them. And I'll be good to go.
This regret and guilt and stuff about the renovation and all it's in the past, then. And it wasn't, it wasn't a net zero. It came out. Okay. That's right.
Yeah. I think you did pretty good. This is the Ramsey show.
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Dr. John Deloney. Ramsey personality, is my co-host. open phones at triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five. Jerry's with us in Phoenix.
Hi, Jerry. Welcome to the Ramsey show.
Hey, thanks, guys. Thanks for taking my call.
Sure. What's up?
So, so I'm 58.
. My wife is 57.. About three months ago, we started the baby step program. Actually, you start off pretty well. We're.
we paid off 13 K and credit card debt, nine K and car debt. We're under the big one. outside of our home. We've got 210 K and parent plus student.
Yeah.
So, you know, we make about two, 20 years. So fortunately we do have some, we have an income stream, but you know, so here, here's where we sit with our assets, also retirement. So we've got 45 K in cash, 45 K in Roth IRAs, 170 and long-term retirement accounts.
Our monthly expense is about 7,500.
. So outside of that, we've got about three K that we can put towards debt. So where we're kind of struggling right now is this combination of, you know, we're, we're getting, we're older, right. We're getting closer to, to retirement or retirement age. Where do we, do we, you know, we're kind of straddling baby step two and three.
We've already obviously done baby step one. We've got cash in three. But obviously this debt we want to get out of, you know, my question is, should we look at that cash that we have, maybe split that in half? Because right now, 45 K puts us right at six months of a fund,
light dispersed, simply lights a room focused. We'll do surgery or cut metal. You're trying to light the whole room. And wondering why you're not getting progress. You're going to have to get focused and that's going to mean cutting your lifestyle.
You're going to have to not act like you make a quarter of a million dollars a year. Cause. Oh, by the way, you owe a quarter of a million dollars, you're broke. And if you're worried about your age and you're approaching retirement, you should act like it. And how austere, scorched earth, your new lifestyle looks with your budget.
And it's not $3,000 a month. Then it's more going towards this. And we're going to pull out all the stops and clean up this mess while we can, because if we don't get this mess cleaned up, we're not going to have a good retirement. So the faster and the more on fire that your hair is, the fat, the deeper you sacrifice, the faster you'll get out. And that requires complete focus, not trying to rework the baby steps.
Yeah. So, you know, one of the things I'm juggling with. my wife and I are actually on the same page, however, she's a little more risk averse than I am. And so, you know, taking that cash that we have and really paying down the debt to her. She's really uneasy about that.
I'm pretty uneasy about you being broke people at retirement. After you made a quarter of a million dollars a year, that's the risk I'm trying to avoid.
Okay.
Not your tiny little emergency world that the $45,000 won't even be on.
What about the, what about the Roth IRAs? You think we should.
No, you should leave your retirement alone, but you should stop adding to it. Are you still adding to retirement?
Well,
I mean, doing it where, you know, small percent work.
Again, you're trying to light the whole room. You're trying to do everything for everybody on this page and nobody's getting served.
Dude, that's, that's the differentiation between what we've been teaching and how we've been able to move people along all these years. It's, you have to quit trying. The best way to get your retirement funded is to get your butt out of debt. The best way to get your emergency fund in place is to get your butt out of debt and quit screwing around with trying to do seven things at once. You're not doing it.
You're, you suck at it, and it's what got you here. And so you've got to, you know, you guys have really got to stop and look at this. Now. you can do your plan if you want to do it, but you called me. And so that, that means I'm going to love you well and tell you the truth.
This is what you're doing. has a low probability of getting you to a million dollar net worth. By the time you're 70, what I'm telling you to do has a high probability of getting you there. Cause I want all of this debt gone in the next 24 months. I want you to act like your child's life depends on it for you to clean up this freaking mess.
Then, when you don't have anything hanging over your head, you got a quarter million dollars to go build wealth with. And you can turn all kinds of stuff into at that point and make things happen. But the power of focus is tantamount to, to the probability of success here, John.
Yeah. I want to add to that. You're right. It's just tough when you see somebody who's clearly.
successful and smart in one area, and
unable to see it or hear it in another area. It's just tough.
Yeah. Well, you, that, what, what, what you are seeing correctly, Jerry, is all of these things are important. What you're seeing incorrectly is the fastest way to get them all addressed. It's not simultaneously. It's completely.
stop your retirement. Don't take anything out, but stop adding to it. Clean out your emergency fund and step on your lifestyle with a muddy boot. Live like no one else, so that later you can live like no one else. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness.
In two years, you could have your life back.
Right? Think, think of it. Take money aside. Cause it, it's tends to light a fire. Think of getting your kid out the door.
You have 15 minutes to get them out into the car. So you'll get to church on time. If you try to put them in the shower and put clothes on them and brush their teeth and feed them breakfast at the same time, you're never going to go anywhere. Get them in the shower, get them out, drive them off, put clothes on them, then get them. And you'll get out, you'll get out the door much quicker and you'll get out the door in the right steps.
And you're not going to just have soggy cereal.
Wyatt is in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Hi Wyatt. How are you?
Good. How are you guys doing better than we deserve?
What's up? Uh,
so I have a question. I had recently bought a car off Facebook marketplace, about two months ago, because the car had had before that, uh, died on me and I just got word. I had to have it in and out of the shop past couple of weeks. I just got word yesterday that it is going to need either like a full engine swap, or they're going to have to pull the whole engine in general.
So you're going to sell it, you're going to sell it for salvage. What'd you pay for it?
Uh, 2,800.
All right. And so you'll sell it for a grand or $1,200 bucks, like it sits. And you got any money to add with it?
Well, I have, I just recently started the baby steps. So I have a thousand dollars saved up and I have,
so you're going to go buy another $2,000 car then, huh?
Yeah.
That's cool. That's nothing wrong with that.
Where am I? Yeah. That's where my question is, is you recommend me to do that?
Yes.
Go on Facebook or try to risk it again.
Yeah. Yeah. You're buying a throwaway car. I don't want you to drive this car the rest of your life. They generally do fall apart.
That's why they, they're cheap. Now I will help you, for this. Are, are, are you at home? Are you living at home?
I live, I live about 30 minutes away from home and in town. I just graduated college.
Okay. Good for you. Is your dad around? Yeah. Okay.
Um, start talking to him and ask him to help you with this car search. Here's what you're looking for. You're looking for an ugly automobile that you can't get a date because of the car. You better be good looking because you ain't getting a date because of this car. It's ugly.
Okay. But it's very reliable, low miles. And it's like a, uh, a 2000 model 25, a 1999, 25 year old Honda Accord. Jesus said to get that. He said, they're all in one accord.
So you just, it's a Jesus car. Okay. We're going to get a Camry. We're going to get something with some age on it, but not 200,000 miles. And it does not look good.
It may have hail damage. Like we had one, we had two people in our parking lot right now that drive hail damaged cars. that they, they're like six, $7,000 cars, but they paid like two grand for them because they look like they were shot in Iran. Right?
Yeah.
Yeah. I'm just, and so that's what you're looking for. All right. You're looking for something that people make fun of, and you have to give it a name. Oh, Bessie.
Oh, blue Henrietta.
Oh, Dave.
Oh,
what?
Oh, old John, the mule, old John, the mule. This is the Ramsey show.
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com or every dollar dot com. And yeah, that's what y'all do. Jackson's with us. Jackson's in Montgomery, Alabama. Hey Jackson, what's going on?
Hi, Dave. Uh, first of all, thank you for having me on the show. Super excited. Um, so I am 21 years old, married with a three month old kid, or not? three months anymore, excuse me, five month old.
And, um, recently separated from the military, and my wife and I are roughly 16, $17,000 in debt. And we have no idea which way is up. Uh, we're, we're just kind of stuck. We don't, we don't really know how to get out of all this debt is our big issue.
How old are you?
Uh, 21.
Thanks for your service. Why were you separated from the military?
Yeah, I was, uh, 10 days away from graduation of basic and we found out that I had a medical condition that I'm not allowed to serve with. So, unfortunately, um, which really sucks. Cause we kind of put all of our eggs in that basket. Cause we were in debt before I went and we knew that we were, we weren't going to make a lot of money, but hopefully enough to kind of get us, you know, in the right direction. So now, you know, just got home, probably roughly a month ago.
I don't have a job working on getting one. My wife started a job last week, making $10 an hour, and we live with my parents.
Okay.
So what you have, um, I'm sorry, you've gone through this. It's hurtful. Um, it's scary. Yeah. What you've got is a career crisis.
Yes.
Okay. All of your questions are answered when you have a steady, big income. If you got a job tomorrow, making $60,000 a year, you wouldn't have called me. Yeah. So what you have is an income problem.
Agreed.
Yes, absolutely.
And, um, there's two parts to the equation to land that. Um, one is, uh, you've been home a month. Are you, are you ill physically where you can't work?
Uh, no, not, not at all.
Okay. Just a thing. They were just scared to put you on a stress, a basic. Okay. Um, so, uh, I want you to get three jobs delivering stuff by nightfall today.
All right.
It's called door dash, Uber and pizzas, and you can just go, sign up and start doing that right now. There's no excuse for you not to be engaged in doing something for a whole month in your mother's basement. Go, get something going.
So I currently, when I left for basic west, um, our only vehicle with, um, my best friend in Texas. And cause it's where we were living when I went. And, uh, he has, he's been working overtime, a bunch of stuff. He's unable to get it to me. So it's kind of a big hindrance of why I don't.
Okay. You've been in Alabama a month. Get your butt to Texas and get your car.
He's driving it out tonight, actually.
Oh, okay. Good. Okay. Okay. Got that soft.
All right. So go ahead and get the three jobs in. I want you doing something immediately. So the immediate need, this does a couple of things for you. One is it starts throwing some cash on this mess.
Uh, two is the activity is good for your spirit and your soul. Hard work is good for you. It brings dignity. And a three is you walk different when you go into the interview for a real job, when you're not broken, scared, your voice tone is different. You have a little bit of swagger.
You're not desperate. You don't have the stink of loser on you. All right. But when you're broke, scared, all of us walk different, talk different and don't interview. well.
Right. So it helps your confidence level when you walk in there. So I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book. What you're wired to do, which includes their longterm plan. Okay.
It's got the get clear career assessment. I'm going to give it to you as my gift. And, um, uh, I want you to take that assessment and it's going to give you some guidelines on the types of longterm careers you should be plugging into. And then I'm also going to send you his other second bestseller. We are his first bestseller, which is called the proximity principle, which is how to land a job in the career field.
at this. get clear career assessment lays out. But between now and the time you land that job, I want you working on something, making some kind of money, swinging a hammer on a deck, pushing a lawnmower, delivering something to somebody that needs it being delivered. I want your butt in gear every day.
That'll stack cash for you. And that will give you dignity, and you will walk different into the other interviews.
So I do have a job interview coming up this Monday, um, at like a local place, installing emergency lights on vehicles. Um,
but what's that going to pay? What's that going to pay?
That's the problem. I don't know yet. It wasn't online. And when I went in and talked to the guy, he didn't tell me. And that, that is a worry of, of,
it's not a worry. It's just one thing you're looking at. You're going to look at 63 things, for you land the big thing. And, by the way, when you're done with this, I want you to decide what it is you want to do. Not just something that drops in your lap.
What do you want to be? What do you want to be doing when you're 31?? Let's get about the business of becoming that.
My, I mean, my goal currently is, uh, federal law enforcement, just because I like the benefits.
Okay. Then I'll start working towards that.
Okay. Um,
currently I'm not sure that's a good reason to go into federal law.
That's a terrible reason to go into federal, I mean, to go into federal law benefits.
Yeah. Benefits are. you get shot at, but the, um, no, I go into,
go to be a federal police officer. If you are just having a burning desire in your soul to go serve your community, don't do it for the benefits. That's the worst kind of police officers. You can get benefits collecting a check. The police officers that are there to serve and protect their communities.
That's, that's what we need more of, but you need to do some soul searching, man.
Yeah. You need to think about what it is you want to be from your heart and how you're going to do that in a way that provides for your family, a level of prosperity in the next decade. uh, and then what are the steps to get there? And in the meantime, go make some dadgum money, because you'll feel different. Your confidence will change.
I promise you it's a big deal. And John, there's actual data. Uh, he's not depressed, but, uh, but he's having a, he's in a downtime of his life. I mean, his dream just got taken away by the military. He was going to do that and that rug got, so he's trying to emotionally recover from that.
So it's not like, I suspect it's not full on depression, but the data on depression is, uh, physical exercise, sunlight, and activity.
You got to do some stuff. So if this sounds harsh, but in his situation, because of the, the totality of it, it's got a five month old. I got to put food in that baby's mouth. I have a brand new wife and she just got a job, but she only found a job making 10 bucks an hour.
I'm in my mama's basement again.
In their mama's basement. If he was my friend, if he was somebody that came and sat with me, I would say, do you get 48 hours to have your heart broken, to be sad and walk around your neighborhood? And then you are throwing boxes at the night shift at Walmart for $27 an hour, whatever. they're paying, 20 bucks an hour. You have to get out there and start doing it.
And we're going to figure it out. Go on your lunch break and go to this other job interview. By the way, this job interview is going to be about ego. It's going to be inside. It's going to be cool.
And it's not going to pay what throwing boxes is. It's not going to pay what being assistant manager at a local McDonald's is. And he's not in a place where ego can drive. right now. He's got to make some money to feed a baby.
And in the evenings, he can begin planning, applying, sitting at the computer, trying to research some of these jobs.
That are long term plans.
Long term plans. Right now he's got to put food in that baby's mouth. And yes, he'll start walking taller. He'll start acting. His life will clarify for him what he does and doesn't want to be doing.
Yeah. You get knocked out of the saddle. You can sit and study horses or you can get back on the saddle.
Get in the saddle. Study horses while you're riding. But you got to start riding.
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