THIS Is How You Become A Millionaire In America Today

My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. Jacob starts this hour in Oklahoma City. Hi, Jacob. How are you?

. My wife is 28.. We have about $13,273 in debt. We are going to pay that all off by December. In July, we will be moving into my grandfather's home, where he is going to let us pay rent to him, but we will basically be able to take all the money that we pay in rent and put it back into the property.

The property sits on about an acre and then has surrounding 40 acres of pasture. We would like to start farming and ranching sometime next year. Currently, we make about $92,000 a year, but sometime next year, my day job will give me a raise to about $100,000 a year. I work for my parents' roofing company. I will basically be taking over the company.

At that point, I'm just kind of baffled because I've got so many blessings going on in our life. It's a lot of responsibility to take on, but my big question is, what should I do with the extra money that I'm going to be making? Should I put that toward the ranch? Should I put that toward after, of course, I follow through with the rest of the baby steps?

It's not in your name.

Why is it in a family trust?

The trust will basically have my dad as the executor when they pass away.

Once she passes away, it would go to my father as the beneficiary, and then it would go, I would assume, to me.

But we've got a meeting with the lawyers that we're supposed to have set up.

More going to go wrong here than go right.

It is not in your name. And the things that can go sideways are too numerous to count. Thirty-five years of doing this show, I've heard them all. Okay? And, you know, somebody, you know, your dad decides he's going to have an alcohol problem, or he decides he's going to whatever, or your mom accuses him of something he didn't do, or I don't know.

I mean, aw, crap, man, crap. hit the fan, and then he's in control of this blessing that you now have invested $100,000 into something that is not in your name. You're going to lose it all. Do not do this. You know, it's okay if you want to live there, but don't improve the property unless it's in your name.

And if their intention is to put it in your name, there's no reason they can't go ahead and do that. Okay. Yeah. There's no estate tax planning. Is your grandfather's estate worth over $27 million?

No. Okay. Then there's no reason, from an estate planning perspective, that they can't go ahead and move the property into your name. It does not have to stay in a trust. And it's just not necessary.

This particular piece of property, it sounds like there's a whole bunch of.

And as far as your long-term investing, you've got a lot going into family business and a lot going into your land and property. Hopefully, it's going to be deeded to you so you can do that. So you need to be doing, for sure, some other stuff, like a standard retirement program. Get you a couple Roth IRAs going and, you know, get some stuff in mutual funds where you're not all in Oklahoma farmland. Not that there's anything wrong with Oklahoma farmland, but you don't want all your eggs in one basket.

That's what I'm saying. So you need a good retirement program going. So be putting 15% of your income away, like standard baby step four for that. And if you want to do more real estate and stuff later, you do that with money. you save up and pay cash after you get this other thing worked out.

But we're not living in grandpa's house for free and then go buy rental property.

You need to work through this. You need to work through this with them, because this is not... It's not setting you up in a position of reasonable strength and reasonable dignity. So it's unreasonable for you. It's not unreasonable for them.

It's their property. They can do with it what they want to do. But I'm not saying they're doing anything wrong, but I'm saying, if their intent is to go ahead and give it to you, they'd do it now.

. Yeah. So I'm like, that's the hard lessons of life that, you know, in his perspective, ew, it's perfect, right? The dominoes will fall perfectly right in a line. This makes sense, right?

And then that's where, when it comes to this money stuff, being extra formal in it, meaning documentation, contracts, right? Will, I mean, like all of that, it's just to cover your bases. And I feel like sometimes we tend to not go as formal with family.

Maybe they hadn't even thought about it. I don't know. And when I go ahead and deed it to you and then you guys get the benefit of it all. So it's just, it's seeing the back end of it. that's always difficult, which is what we see sometimes.

Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Kimberly's in Colorado Springs. Hi, Kimberly.

the lawyer, paid all of my other debts except this one credit card. And so my question is, so. I got a decent tax return. And so I was wondering, do I go ahead and just pay it off with the tax return from my money, or do I just let him pay it as he is able to?

But he didn't get anything from the house because of-.

I refinish furniture a little bit too. And so I've been doing that and then pottery and then selling all the things that I can find to sell.

I'm just trying to get through the next few months doing what I can.

I mean, you're going to get to a place that like.

And as long as you understand that the divorce decree says he's supposed to pay it, but that divorce decree does not have the power to take your name off of it. And so if he doesn't pay it, it's going to be you that gets dinged.

I feel like I would not have loved you well if I didn't say, I think you need to lean in on this income side harder.

I'm a person of faith also, and I do believe that God comes through. But I have noticed that no corn grows unless I sow corn. For sure. I have to put corn in the ground and then God brings the rain and God brings the sunshine. But if you sow sparingly, you're going to reap sparingly.

And going along saying God has provided, God has provided, and it's going to be okay. And I don't have any idea what I'm going to be doing in August. I'm going to love you enough, as my little sister, to say, you need to focus in on this career piece. And you need to really start thinking about what you're going to be, because you're hurting. And you've been wounded by this whole process.

And let's start thinking about 10 years from today, what is the glorious, most prosperous career that you're going to love and make a lot of money doing that you start working towards now and actually engage in in August, rather than, I think I'll maybe go into sales because I'd hate graphic design. I want more thought into this for you than that. if I'm you. So hang on. I'll give you those two things as our gift.

And I'm not trying to be offensive. I know you're hurting, but I'm also not going to let you just sit there because your numbers are really scary, really scary. So I want to see some income coming your way for a long-term sustainability for you. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. It's awful.

When somebody in her situation, her whole plan was to be a mom with those kids. I've got to stay home with the other two. Now I want to stay home with this last one. But all of that changed with the divorce. You don't get to make the same choices because of what's going on.

Right? I mean, just not only the divorce aspect, but I think that is hard for a lot of women. It's hard for everybody. That maternal instinct is so strong. And for some women, they, you know, and choose to and want to desire, to dream, to stay home with kids and do all of that.

And then when that is taken from you and you're forced back into something like this, I mean, it just, it's terrible. It's terrible. But, Kimberly, I really think. Yep. I'm glad you called in, though, because I hope that this gives you some direction, maybe a little bit of motivation, but also it just sucks.

I mean, this is, this is one of those grieving things that Dr. John Delaney talks about. You grieve what isn't true anymore. Right.

Late 2003.

. So it's 20 years old. We're celebrating with a 20 year anniversary, the 20th anniversary edition of The Total Money Makeover. The humorous thing is, The Total Money Makeover has had several makeovers. This is the, I think, fifth revised edition over the years.

And it's now. over 10 million copies have been sold and or given away out there that are helping people. It's the simplest, most straightforward and proven plan to change your finances. It's been working since Taylor Swift started her career.

And just think of all the other things. Like some of you weren't born yet when this thing came out. It's 20 years old. I mean, oh my gosh. So there you go.

Or, at a minimum, you were running around in your little pampers. So there you go.

Okay. Ramseysolutions.com slash store. Get the Total Money Makeover 20th Anniversary Edition. All kinds of goodies there. And you get the EveryDollar Premium for free in there.

So scan the QR code and get signed up for EveryDollar. when you're looking at the brand new version of the old book. This is the Ramsey Show.

You know, it doesn't take a degree in statistics to realize this one stinks. 93% of undergraduate private student loans are cosigned. So when you're delinquent and drowning, Mom or Papa or Uncle Joe is stuck in that financial stress along with you. But there is a way out. YRefi.

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Thank you very much. Ryan's in Pittsburgh. Hey, Ryan, how are you?

Federal law is wife gets the good car. So, yeah, and, you know, newly married, they may not have told you about the law.

So, rule of thumb is this. Number one, always pay cash. Correct. For whatever you drive. Number two, I would not buy a brand new vehicle unless you have at least a $1 million net worth.

Because they go down in value so quickly, you really can't absorb the death blows that the mathematics give you unless you've got substantial wealth to absorb those blows. So, we're going to limit that damage. And then the third thing that helps us to do that is never, really, I can think of very few times in your life, like almost never, that you would add up all the things that you own with wheels and motors, and it should not equal more than half your annual income.

Because if it does, you've got too much stuff going down in value for you to mathematically get ahead. So, I mean, if you've got a $12,000 lawnmower, you know, that's part of the equation, right? And people do. God help us, but they do. And so, you know, if you've got a SEDU and your SEDU has a sister and so on, these things all go down in value.

And so, you know, I own a bunch of them too, but it needs to be a small percentage of my world. that's going backwards if I want to go forwards. So, as long as you're those three things, you're not buying new and a millionaire, you're paying cash, and you're not more than half your annual income, and you want to move up in car, I'm fine with you moving up in car.

Okay. So, you don't need to be driving two $40,000 cars when you make $70,000, because they're losing $10,000 a minute, and you can't get ahead. So, that's about the most you ought to be driving, making $70,000.. Now, I think you said $70,000, take home. So, I mean, we're talking about gross revenues, but gross income.

But still, you're right in that range. So, that's fine. What you're outlining makes sense, and it's okay to do that. But that's some good guidelines. And, folks, it's real simple.

It's not because I hate cars. I actually love cars. I've got a bunch of nice cars. I like cars. But I hate what they do mathematically, and I certainly hate when you're losing 60% of the value in five years if you buy a new car.

If you buy a $40,000 new car, you lose $24,000 in five years. You can't afford to do that if you don't make a lot of money and get ahead, not and make progress.

But she's called The Car Mom, and she goes through and reviews cars. It's like her big thing. And she's become an expert. I think her dad. I think she's in the car business.

Her family has been. But it's been so interesting. I talked to her on my show. I had her as we were talking about used cars. And she was saying, though, how cars today, we used to say the 100,000-mile rule.

And she's like, but the way they're built now, they last longer. So, that was a little bit, too, why I was kind of pushing on it. But again, if you want a new car, mathematically, you can. But don't just assume, you guys, these days that, yeah, just because it has a high mileage, that it's done. Right?

Like, if it's not giving you trouble, and you're content in it, then you're fine.

Yeah. That's very good.

Your need is transportation. But everything above something that provides transportation is simply a want. So, and, but we justify it. It needs an airbag. It needs this.

And so, but this thing of, you know, we justify our ego asks and call them needs when they're actually wants. Yeah. Anything above the basic service of transportation. Getting you from A to B. So, Ryan moving up out of a 100,000 mile car in his life.

He didn't. Yeah. But don't call up. And don't, more importantly than us, don't tell yourself that somehow this is a need. Oh, God, we're dying.

And all this drama queen crap in your head that people do in order to justify buying something that they just simply wanted. And they couldn't just own it. Just, I wanted it. Why'd I buy it? I wanted it.

Okay. I don't have a single vehicle today. that isn't. 90% of the reason I own it is luxury. 10% is transportation.

But, and what you think at a stoplight is irrelevant to me. But the thing that, but this thing of, I want the prestige of a car.

An $8,000 purse is a want. And there's nothing.

Coach or whatever. Louis Vuitton stuff, whatever. I mean, this crap, this is all, there's nothing wrong with it. I mean, one gun is a need. A closet full of guns is a want.

That would be me. Okay. I'm picking on your purses, so I'll pick on my guns. All right. So, it's a want.

And so, I can't use them all at once to protect my family. So, it's a want.

And so, challenging yourself a little bit on that, I think, is healthy and good. So, Ryan, yes, y'all can upgrade car. You got cash. It's within the mathematical limits. But just because I hit 100,000 miles doesn't mean you have to if it's not breaking on you.

Yeah.

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Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Leslie's, in Hamilton, Georgia. Hi, Leslie.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

But my husband, he has, you know, set income, gets paid every two weeks. But for me, my brain, it doesn't, I don't understand how I can make a budget for myself, not knowing week to week how much I'm going to make. I don't even know where to start.

I think that comes into play. second. But to say, look ahead and say, okay, here's what I think I'm going to make, and I always kind of go on the conservative end, just to make sure that all of your main bills, your four walls, food, shelter, utilities, transportation, all of those are covered, and then, in your EveryDollar budget, prioritize, even visually, the list of, okay, here is what we have to have and here's what we have to get paid. So once we're paid, then we know here's the categories that we're going to have. And if the end of the budget, if those last few categories, you know, if you don't have the money for it because you made a low income, that's okay, because they're not necessities, if that makes sense.

But, yeah, the paycheck planning action in the EveryDollar app, you're able to say, okay, if my paycheck hits on the 15th, here are the bills between the 15th and the 30th that have to be paid. So you're able to make sure that your income is spread out evenly throughout the month as well,

Okay, so you're going to have to get this business moving. It's not working very well.

But that's a side issue. Okay. Now, if you are going to do that, you know, if you can become an exterminator while you're also working with a problem in wildlife, then you've got two pieces of your business model that you can put together. Maybe you can turn this into an actual job, at least an income that looks like a job. Okay.

So what Rachel is saying, let's pretend your worst month was $1,000 a month on average. Okay. Which? that sounds like you've made more than that a lot of months, and this has just been a dry spell. So let's call it, let's say, then you would budget with his $5,000 and your $1,000, and then you would make a list of things you wanted to do, that you did not get into that $6,000..

And that list is prioritized from the very first thing I want to do if I get $1 more than $6,000.

. And then, once I get that thing, then what's the very next thing, number two? And the very next thing, number three, in that prioritized spending plan, then applies to your every-dollar budget, and then you can get that moving, and that'll drop into that paycheck planning part of the every-dollar app and start to work for you. Yeah. But really what we're revealing more than anything else here is you don't really have a budgeting problem.

You have an income problem.

If you were making $8,000 a month and your worst month was $8,000, you probably wouldn't have called me saying I have a budgeting problem because you're just starving. I mean, you're making $100 and then $1,000.. I mean, you're not even making wages. You could make more than this, working down at Target. And so that's what your main issue is, and you're calling it a budgeting problem, but it's really an income problem.

But you have to be disciplined in that.

How are you?

And so the first thing is look at the price. Because there's a vast spectrum of dental school. You can spend $600,000.. You can spend $200,000 to get through. It is very expensive.

Dental school is expensive. It's inordinately expensive. It's more expensive than getting an MD is what we run into. But even then, I'm going to look for the cheapest possible dental school, number one. Number two, I'm going to start studying the dental industry, the labs, the suppliers, the vendors, and find who's got scholarships.

There's not many of them, but there are some. And I've heard some wonderful stories of people going and doing that.

So she went on. And she said, I just graduated. True story, Matthew, from dental school. She said, I worked for the college. And she's graduating debt-free.

She worked for the school.

I was like, I'm going to remember that next time someone calls about dental school, because that was her. She was right there. And she said that she graduated, and completely debt-free. So there's these other avenues to Matthew that you can see.

You'll see a dentist there that's a million dollars in debt. And you'll see a grown man cry. It's really distressing. The good news is that guy's worked his way out of it. But, wow, it was a mess.

He was in. So, yeah, go watch Borrowed Future, and that'll scare you straight. This is The Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Thank you for joining us, America. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey, personality, number one, bestselling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, with the one and only George Camel, and my daughter. She's my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

. Chuck is in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Hi, Chuck. How are you?

. Yeah.

Well, the answer to the question is pretty simple, is I would pay off the car and the house by morning before the close of business today. No question. Because you'd have $900,000 left over, and everything's paid for.

But more importantly than what Dave Ramsey thinks, because it's not really an issue, is why would you do that? Well, number one question is why would you not do that? What's the downside? There's not really a downside. If your home was paid for and your cars were paid for and you had $900,000 in your investments, you wouldn't go borrow $80,000 to enhance your investments.

Well, I mean, it's not hard. You know that. You're a millionaire. You just call up the banker and you'd have a mortgage by the end of the next day, right? They would love to loan you money, dude.

You're like the kind of guy they're after, right?

You put money in it. You kept putting money in it. You've kept your claws out. Nobody's touching this. And now these people are trying to get you to touch it.

And you're going, I don't think so. This is not how I got here. And so that's, truthfully, one of your greatest strengths is turning into a bit of a weakness in this particular discussion. But I'm so proud of you. I'm assuming you didn't inherit a bunch of money.

I'm assuming you did all this on your own.

Compared to your total nest egg, I mean, you've got $1.

3 million, $1.

2 million, and we're taking $80,000.

. Okay, yeah. We're taking $80,000.. So it's so small, it's irrelevant, really, mathematically speaking. But what you're not going to see coming is about three weeks after you pay this house off, you're going to wake up and go, I can breathe a little deeper.

Yeah. Because the borrower is slave to the lender, and you're not going to be a slave anymore. And you're going to be able to feel that down inside. You'll physically feel it, probably. Because you've been so long at this, and now it's like, last step.

It's like touchdown.

Touchdown. I love it. This is the Ramsey Show.

Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We are glad you are with us. Well, if you are on Baby Step 4, which means you're out of debt, everything but the house, and you have your emergency fund in place, fully funded at three to six months of expenses. That's one, two, and three.

That means you're at Baby Step 4.

. You're starting to invest for retirement. Five is kids college. Six is pay off the house early. Or seven is you're debt free, everything.

If you're anywhere in four and beyond, we invite you to live like no one else. Because we tell you to live like no one else, so that later you can live and give like no one else. That's the idea, right? So we have the Live Like No One. Else Cruise.

Yeah, that's right. We're going on Holland America, which is a fabulous line. We're going to Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, San Juan, the Bahamas, all the Ramsey personalities, plus a bunch of other special guests, like my friend Stephen Curtis Chapman, is going to hang out with us, my friend Manit Chauhan from the Food Channel, Iron Chef winner, Dena Carter, remember Strawberry Wine, famous country singer, is going to be with us, and several other people. Quite a boatload of stars, including all the Ramsey personalities.

We're going to be doing events on the boat through the whole time, talks on the boat. It's going to be incredible. It's a ship. Don't call it a boat. My wife gives me a hard time.

Anyway, the thing is almost sold out. It's not yet sold out, but it's like 70% gone. It's only been up for sale for three and a half weeks. It is next March 22 through 29 of 2025.. So go to Ramseysolutions.com slash cruise before the cabins are gone, because they're going to be gone.

We would love to have you. if you're Baby Step 4 and beyond. Please do not go into debt to do this. We don't need your money. that bad.

You can come on another one. Please don't do this if you don't have your emergency fund in place and you're in debt. So it's Baby Step 4 and beyond. Live like no one else. so later you can live and give like no one else.

So this is the. live like no one else. cruise. We're not hypocrites. We're not trying to get people to do something they can't afford to do.

We want to give you a place to celebrate, though, for those of you that have made the journey with us, and you're further up the Baby Steps. So it's going to be a lot of fun. We're going to have a blast. All the Ramsey personalities are going to be on the ship the entire week, including Sharon and I. So we would love to have you guys come as our guest.

Lucas is with us in Nashville. Hi, Lucas. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

and got kind of integrated into the business. Here about two months ago, the owner let me know that he wasn't going to be able to pay me and that he'd be able to get money soon. But since then, I'm three paychecks behind, and I'm in a position where I feel like if I leave or say something about it, then I'm kind of putting the last stake into the company and kind of hurting the friendship that I've built, but also aware that it's slowing down my life goals.

You've built a relationship, and you care about these people, but they're not taking care of you.

So, yeah, I don't think you're going to be there in 30 days, but if you want to give it one last Hail, Mary, it would be sitting down in person with the owner and saying, okay, I am officially done, unless you clue me in on every detail here.

Because I signed a quarter million dollars worth of people, and I can't figure out why I didn't get paid. Where's the money?

Yeah. It's a fair question.

That's the freaking owner and CEO's responsibility. So, for you, I'm like, I would not. That's emotional bandwidth that you don't need to have. I mean, you don't. You are a team member.

They're on the team. But if Lucas leaves and the whole thing dissolves, that's not your fault, Lucas. Like, that's not your fault.

I have a track record for getting kind of 100% into everything.

You're not even getting 50% back. You're not even getting a paycheck back.

Yeah. You know? So, I mean, it's like, if the tables were turned, and you were the owner, and you were, your back was against the wall, and one of your key people was on the other side, and you couldn't pay them, I know what Lucas would do. after talking to him for just a few minutes. You would give a thorough, detailed explanation, and say, if you'll join arms with me in this, and help me turn the corner, I'll make it worth your while.

It's going to be a minute until we get this other thing to clear, and I'll show you what it is. And you would tell them what the flip is going on.

Show, it's a Jerry Maguire moment. Show me the money. You know? And it's like, whew.

Thank God.

Or all three. But you're, you know, you're, you're due a lot more.

Explanation detail. Then, then just hang on. It's going to be all right.

No, not. Not going to do that. This is the Ramsey show.

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Today's question of the day comes from Denise in Ohio.

This has forced me to separate our, to separate our finances, because I have no doubt that he would find a way to spend my money along with his. We both contribute a portion of our income to pay bills. He wants to, he wants to be in charge of that, but is regularly late on payments. Lately he's been telling me not to put money in my 401k or I'll lose everything. He doesn't have any retirement savings except what he invests in silver.

I don't know what to do, but make sure that I have a retire, secure retirements. I don't know what to do.

That's the only way you're going to be secure in retirement.

This guy's.

And the world's going to come to an end anyway. So I'm going to put my money in silver. It's a freaking four year old. I just got disgusting. He's disgusting.

I don't know what you're still doing there.

I mean, you're,

you're married to the equivalent of an alcoholic who does cocaine. I mean, this is so out of control, such self-centered behavior, such immature behavior. It's hard to measure. So I, you know, the only hope you've got is to sit down and see a marriage counselor and let them give you the words to guide him into the marriage counseling office, uh, with your pastor or with a good marriage counselor that's trained, or however, I don't care. But, um, someone needs to be giving you words other than me, cause I'm just so pissed at this guy right now.

He's useless. Um, but so, I mean, unless he changes,

if you stay married to him, you're going to be broke your whole life.

And frustrated because the anger is dripping out.

Self-ish is what we call that. It's the opposite of self-less. Yeah. I can't even imagine what Winston Cruz would do if you came in and started acting the way this guy's acting.

And either of those things are going to happen and we're going to start handling money together and we're going to start being wiser, or I'm not going to be here. So you are going to choose to be divorced, sir. If you don't agree to make some changes, that's what you're telling him. The result of you continuing to do this is going to be, I'm gone and you need someone to guide you in that process. Not me, not just me getting fired up at this guy.

That's not, I don't want to transfer that to you, but you need to sit down with a coach, a counselor, a marriage counselor that can guide you in much better, much better than I can, Rachel can, but will guide you in a series of conversations with your husband that lead to finally saying,

either you stop this behavior and we get on the same page and we go to marriage counseling, where you restart respecting me and loving me as much as you love you. Or we're going to call this, I'm done because you're going to, this is a, you can't fast forward this in your mind, Denise, 20 years to see where y'all are. You have a lot of rusty trucks in the yard. That's where you are 20 years from now.

And how dare his wife be a grownup. Now that's what's going on. When I was growing up, they don't say this anymore. It's not, it's a saying people don't use anymore that, that if you never tell your child, no, and you buy them everything, they do not learn the ability to have self-discipline because they've never had discipline. And when I was growing up, we call that so-and-so was a spoiled child.

This is a spoiled brat, little boy that you chose poorly when you married or he,

Connor? what's up?

so I'm looking to save some money, to invest in some form of entrepreneurship after I graduate college next May. Um, currently I'm caught between buying a vehicle to see my family and friends on the weekend back home or staying at college. to complete this internship. I committed without buying a car, to maximize the money I can make.

You'll scratch the money together. It may delay that a little bit, but what you're, what you're doing, is not unreasonable. You're in college and if you delay starting a business a little bit, so you have a $5,000 car, that's not an unreasonable decision. Sir.

I want you to be an entrepreneur in the future, but, but I don't think this $5,000 decision is going to keep your dreams from coming true. As a matter of fact, it might actually facilitate your dreams coming true, as you can actually get around. You have transportation. Hang on. I'm going to send you a copy of the book on trade leadership.

That was a number one bestseller. It's how I grew my business. And so, since you're a great, great future entrepreneur, I'm going to help you with that as my gift. This is the Ramsey show.

Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my cohost today. Matthew is in Springfield, Missouri. Hey, Matthew, welcome to the Ramsey show.

I didn't, things slowed up last year. Um, I had to lay off, continue to lay off more and more people. Um, and it kind of just snowballed down.

So, um, 360, how much do you own a home?