Emma Chamberlain (Parts 1 and 2) (FBF) [VIDEO]

Thank you so much. So my first question for you is, you don't do interviews? Yeah, why are you here? Okay? well, number one Alex.

Honestly, like, don't, don't drag me like I did, let me tell you like, I, I found you and things were very sexual, yeah, and I learned a lot. Wow.

Yeah, it makes me so happy. Yeah, so, like, that's how I found you. I think I was really just like looking for advice on how to be crazy.

But then, like, in turn, I fell in love.

We're about to just talk about how we're in love with each other, I know.

Quickly, to give people context that are listening of our story. I was thinking about this the other day. So Emma and I have, we're, like, represented by the same agency. And this was like, right when I started the show, like the single father era of taking the show on by myself. And I was starting to have guests on. And I remember my agent was like, Do you want to meet with Emma Chamberlain?

And I'm like, absolutely sure. We get on Zoom and we zoom for like an hour and a half, and we wouldn't shut the fuck up. And we won't talk about what we were talking about because it was like everything, our publicist just kept being like, this is off the record.

This is off the record, this is off the record. Emma, don't tell her that I'm like, I'm not going to go say anything, but so we just start talking.

But it was a weird moment because I think my brand was still very sexual. Yeah, so we said we were going to potentially have, like, a collaboration, you were going to come on. It never ended up happening.

It just wasn't the right time. Then, the next time we saw each other was new.

Yeah, we were.

And it's time. Well, I think it was one of those things where.

Like, I know I'm 21, but whatever, or almost 21. But I've been really trying to grow like in the public eye, in a way, because I'm. I can't stay a teenager in everybody's mind forever. But I think I needed to do some of that work on my own before I came on here and was like, let's talk about big girls.

You're like, So the gluck, gluck, and I'm like, I tried the Gluck gluck a year ago and you guys won't believe what happened.

Absolutely, so here we go, just like I usually do in every Caller Daddy episode, we're going all the way back, okay, all the way back.

Where did you grow up? So I grew up.

When I was five, my parents got divorced and my mom moved like 20 minutes away from my dad. And that was actually not a super bad experience because I was so young that I just didn't really know any better. I was definitely a really bored kid because I was an only child and like my parents were both like fully working parents. And so I had a lot of time by myself and I was very bored a lot of the time, which I think is good. In retrospect, I think it was good because it made me a lot more curious, I would say, because I didn't have a lot of distractions.

You know, it's the Silicon Valley, it's a big tech area and a lot of kids there are super smart. And there's this crazy pressure to go to a really good college, especially Stanford is like, you know, the big school there that everybody tries to go to, and there's also a lot of wealthy families too.

And like, So, a lot of people assume that if you live there, you're wealthy, but that was not the case for me and my family at all. But a lot of people there are very wealthy. There's like a very big gap, I would say between, it's like, very, very, very wealthy, and then like, very, like lower middle class. And like, definitely. An in between for sure, but not as much an in between.

It felt like there was a very stark difference.

But I, you know, my dad's an artist. So, like, I felt more on, the, you know, lower middle class side of it, which was tough. But did you feel like your family didn't fit in? For sure? We're living in a one bedroom apartment.

And all my friends at school are living in these massive mansions. It was tough socially, I would say I didn't want to.

And he's like, Emma, that's the worst dude I've ever met. You're like, Really, I'm like, Dad, what the fuck? He's incredible dad, I'm like, but he's so hot dad.

What are you talking about? No, but he's very open minded and very sweet and very like, creative, and, you know, not super controlling or super pushy or anything like that. But he also is opinionated because he has a lot of knowledge and wisdom about things. So he's not sweet and creative in the way that makes him a pushover. He'll tell me what he thinks.

But he also gives me the freedom to, like, make the mistakes, and he's always done that so, and he never judges me. But a very, very cool man, the coolest person I know, I mean, he like, paints, paintings and surfs every day.

And like, that's his job is painting paintings and selling them. And like, started making YouTube videos before. I did, like, he's very cool, right? My mom is, How do I describe my mom? She's like one of the girls, you know what I mean?

She's very lovable, I tell her everything, like everything, and I have no hesitation. Like she knows everything I've ever done in my whole life. Got it, so I'm very, very close with her.

But we're, we're more like sisters. I would say like, you know, we used to butt heads a lot when I was growing up. And you know, because she's picky. She's very like the house clean and likes to have things folded a certain way, and she's very particular about things like that.

Very meticulous woman about everything that she does, which is a very admirable quality. But when you're growing up and you know you don't know how to fold a blanket properly, like, it can cause some problems. Absolutely, but no, we at the end of the day, we're very close and even when we do fight like literal sisters, like, she's always there.

Yeah, I'm really lucky that, you know, my parents have always been very.

Not like traditional parents, like they're very sibling, like, Okay, and I think it's because they didn't even consider themselves to be the type to be parents ever. And so they had me because they wanted to, but they were like, we don't fit the parent mold, so we're just going to do it our own.

I never saw them argue they divorced before. It could ever become traumatizing in that way for me. And that's really mature. And also they're still friends and they talk all the time. I mean, I'm really lucky in that way, too.

Like, they get along great, like they talk all the time, and they're so supportive of one another, so it's not been a negative thing in that way, but I will say that for one. Not having a relationship to look up to when you're growing up does become a little bit jarring when you're older. And you're like, Okay, I'm in my first relationship. What is this supposed to look like?

I don't know, I've never seen it. Did you wish you had had siblings? you know? No, because, again, like my relationship with my parents was so close. Because it wasn't. There was nothing in the way of it, right?

Like, each parent was not in the way of my relationship with the other parent. And also, I didn't have a sibling in the way of my relationship with my parents. And listen, I think it could have been really fun to have a sibling. I don't know, I'll never know.

Right? But I liked the friendship I was able to develop with my parents in the closeness. And I don't think I would have had that if I had a sibling. What do?

And so I downloaded Snapchat and, you know, we would just send each other silly stuff back and forth. Pretty soon after that, Instagram came out and I was like, all right here we go. So I downloaded that too, I think my cousins told me to download that too. And my first post was a picture of a mini bag of cheez-its with, like, some crazy ass filter on top of it.

And I think my caption was something.

And then you're like.

No, I would, I'm like, traumatized, I'm like.

What did your? Did your parents have any rules or guidelines? When you like, first started on Snapchat and Instagram, or did they just kind of let you do whatever you wanted? Honestly, they didn't care.

I don't know what that stems from, I don't know why that is, but I was very transparent with them. And so when it came to things like social media, they were like, she's not, she's just not a bad kid, like, she's just not going to do bad shit on there. And and I didn't because I just didn't even know how to do bad stuff.

I'm like, I, I like, didn't know what bad stuff was right. Um, I did have a kick that just reminded me I had a kick that I used for. Like, just kids at school, messaging kids at school, I forgot, and then I would get like, dick pics and kick.

And then I got super scared, like, so fucking scared. Was that the first time you saw a penis? Yeah, terrifying. Oh, I was so fucking. I was like, I don't, actually.

Okay, like, seriously, like. I was like, not scared of them, but I was like, that is such a foreign like. It was so alien to me because I didn't have siblings. So it's not like I had a little brother where, like, I like, saw him growing up, and like, I saw a boy like, exist. I didn't have a lot of guy friends.

Like, so to me, like a penis. I was like, I, I can't, I don't know what that is like. It scared me. Everybody that listens to my show.

And we didn't have cable, so he's like, here you go, little one, you know, you don't get cable, but you do get this babe. Enjoy. Pretty good trade, No, it was great.

I loved it, so I got super into YouTube, super young, loved Fred. Then as I grew a little bit older, it was Jonas brothers for me in Hannah, Montana. Which one was your favorite? It kind of teetered between Nick and Joe.

Sorry, Kevin. Honestly, Kevin's coming back. No, Kevin, he's a fucking angel. He deserved, he deserved more, he did.

He did. Have you ever met them?

And then I was obsessed in a year, I was like, I love them. And then when, like, Nick had the diabetes thing. We were all like, devastated and everyone was obsessed. And it was like, we were like, we will do anything to save him.

Like, it was so dramatic. No, I know, okay.

Okay, I have to bring this up because it's so fucking funny. But like, when I was like 12, 13 and Vine came out, I was a huge mad con girl. Okay, that's okay.

No, it hurts. wait, why explain? why does it hurt? yeah.

Well, you know, let's explain this for people who don't know what. Basically, there was a group of really hot. well, okay, it's creepy to say that they're hot now that I'm 20. No, it's okay.

But you? But like, at the time, I thought they were the hottest guys I'd ever seen. They were on vine, doing absolutely nothing of substance, right, right, which is fine.

You know, like, that's not their fault, right? Um, it's exactly like, take talk. It's basically it was like a group of, like, really good looking kids that were on vine that were famous. And they would like, go on tours and do meet and greets and like, meet all their young girl fans and like, you know, do weird shit on stage.

That made no sense, cause they really, if you think about it, didn't necessarily have some sort of talent. Except for actually. Shawn Mendes was in Mad Con and he is like, now Shawn Mendes. So like it worked out for some of them, it was like, Cameron Dallas and like, Nash Greer, you know what I mean?

I remember that, yes, I was obsessed with them like I, and they had YouTube channels and I would rewatch their videos like every night before bed. And I was like, Ah, one day, like, I'll meet a mad con boy and I'll be able to just date one of them.

They'll fall in love with me and like I was. I think that's how a lot of people felt, though. Oh, for sure, yeah, but I will say that it was like my crushes as a young person were all consuming.

Like they were not like cute little mini crushes. Like I was obsessed feigning for that, I was feigning, I don't. It was weird.

Like, in retrospect, I don't, it's so out of character, right? Like people would not assume that of me. But I've always been somebody that, like, when I have a crush on someone, I'm not creepy. I don't like stalk anybody, but it is all consuming for me, I get that.

Cause then you go.

No, well, now they probably do, um, let's talk high school. Yeah, you go to a private school.

Yeah, I've seen the videos, you're, you're wearing a.

Basically, I was a really academically driven student. Okay, and so I was obsessed with the idea of going to a super prestigious college and I was willing to do anything to get there. And so when it came time to choose what high school I was going to go to, the public schools in my area were not great and I wanted to go to that.

I wanted to go to a braggy, you know, super.

Prestigious, like, you know, impressive school. And I was like, I can't get that if I go to these public schools. So I was like, mom and dad, I want to go to a private school. And I went. And I toured this all girls Catholic school that had a really great education, and I was like, you know, this could actually be good.

I really liked the environment when I toured the school. And I was able to get financial aid so that I could financially go there, cause I would not have been able to afford it otherwise. And so there I went, I went to all Girls Catholic School, um, and I hated it after the first year and I was like, I made a big fucking mistake. And I haven't seen a boy in a long time. And now those dick pics on kicks, suddenly I'm trying to fucking.

I, like, just knew how to do school for whatever reason, and so, um, I got really good grades, like always above a 4.0 every year. I listen, I don't fucking know how it's possible. I was like, really, just I. And I don't think that school is a great measure of intelligence. I'll be the first one to say it.

Um, cause I'm a fucking idiot in a lot of areas, so like, whatever. But I was good at school, so I was like, I'm going to use this. And you know, I wanted to go into the medical field like I wanted to be an anesthesiologist.

Wow, but like, on what basis? One time I had anesthesia when I had a surgery and the anesthesiologist, I see, I can't even fucking pronounce the word of that. Okay, no, it sounds good.

Whatever, it sounds good enough, yeah, I dropped out of high school, so it's fine that I don't know how to pronounce it.

Okay, like I didn't finish my education, so you can't expect too much from me. Like, I got a surgery once and was like, Oh, this job seems chill. And then I looked up how much they make a year.

And I was like, Oh, this job's super chill. I'm like, you have to go to school for like, 11 years, but like.

No, actually, you know, in retrospect.

It was fine, like it could have been a lot worse, but it was pretty bad.

But I think that the thing that made it possible for the boys and girls to be together was the fact that both boy and girl schools were desperate for each other. Got it, you know what? I mean? Yeah, so, and you know, there was like a distinct like, Okay, this is the corresponding boy school.

So it was like we didn't see each other every day, but at football games we'd see each other and prom and things like that. Anyway. I actually ended up kissing a guy from, like, a school that was probably 30 minutes away. That, like, came to a New Year's party that we were throwing the two schools and it was extremely set up. Those are the worst.

You know, it's like, Oh, he's outside, waiting now.

Okay, but you also have to repaint a picture. Like I was a super late bloomer, I mean, I had like no boobs, like I looked really young, like it was like I looked super young, yeah.

I always have, I even now look kind of young. a lot of people think I look young now, so I felt super. Also, I never felt like mature enough for like this type of behavior.

You know what I mean, because mentally I felt mature enough, but physically I didn't. I felt like I didn't fit the super feminine mold. Right where you, like, have like boobs and like, you know, you wear like a low top and like whatever.

I could not participate in that, so I felt so uncomfortable. Oh, when it was time to do anything with boys, because I was like, I want to. And like, I mentally feel ready, but outwardly, I don't feel like I look ready.

And I feel insecure of my appearance, even though I know that in my brain. Like, I'm ready and that I like love boys, and in fact, I'm like, quite obsessed with boys, like.

Like, it wasn't just like, Oh, there's no flat. And you know, guys in middle school used to give me a hard fucking time about that, like calling me, you know, like a door, like whatever, like shit like that. And which is fine.

Like, whatever, I'm friends with those kids now, like, I forgive, but you know, it's good to, It's good to be forgiving.

But I also, like, didn't get my period until I was 16.

And I felt like I wasn't a woman I was like.

And so naturally, I knew I was the star, and I know that's cringe. No, it's not. I was like, Dad, cue the cam here, I thought, meant to be right here.

What do you remember about your early?

I wish we could watch it so bad. I need to find that iPad because it has so much good shit on it. But my, my cousins and I were constant. We were constantly making little videos during family vacations, during, you know, holidays, like, whatever, constantly making little videos like.

There are these iMovie trailer templates that you could use so you could make like a movie trailer, but iMovie provided the template. So all you had to do is like, film little things and then they plug it in for you. And so we would do those all the time.

So I was familiar and comfortable in that sense, where, you know, my cousins and I.

What compelled you to press?

I don't. I didn't even want to like be famous, like I never thought I could like get any like recognition from it. I to this day. I. I've always, like, looked at fame as an impossible thing, so I was like, I'm not going to become famous from this.

But I was like, even just like a few people commenting will make me feel good post. And then, of course, like, nothing happened, and then I deleted it. Like, a week later, that was my very first one.

But then the you know, when I was 16 and I uploaded, I honestly just. I was in such a shitty spot that I was like, I have nothing to lose. Like, I'm so depressed, I'm so unhappy. I like, I want to do something that makes me feel good, and YouTube has always made me feel good.

So I'm I'm just going to pose on there. Did anyone?

Which is, you know what, no, listen, fair enough, like if I would have seen.

Someone from my high school posing on YouTube, I number one. I would have said the same thing about them, I would have been like, really like, what's gonna come on you guys? Like? It's not easy. But on the other hand, I was even saying that to myself.

It wasn't like people were, it wasn't like I was posting YouTube videos being like, I'm gonna make it big one day, you know, I was posting videos like. This is just a hobby for me. And like, even if I just get 100 subscribers, like.

That's fun, like I just a little community, and also I enjoy making the videos, I enjoy the process of it. So what happened after I pressed Upload? It was more just like, Well, at least it lives somewhere.

When did you go viral? So about?

About, like, two or three months after I started, that's crazy, it was, you know, in it was crazy. But I also think that a big reason for that was. I was uploading every fucking day, like I was uploading every single day during the summer.

And by the end of the summer, I had like something like 50 videos and so I had such a.

Collection already that it was easy, it didn't take as long because I was grinding, I mean, every day. I was like, I need to make a video every day, and then I ended up cutting it down.

And I was like, three days a week, and then I cut it down two days a week, and then I cut it down one day a week. But it was like, in the beginning, I started and I was like, I just want to get as good at this as I can, as quickly as fucking possible. And then when that one video did really well, I was like, it was this video. Where I went to the Dollar store and I bought a bunch of, like, random shit and did like, a fake haul.

Like, I was kind of like kidding around, doing a haul and I was really proud of the video. And it. Like, after two weeks, it had like half a million views or something, or maybe it was like it had 100,000 views after, like.

I was like, Dad, like, that is like one in a trillion, like, why are we? why are we? Let's not go there.

Because I'm just gonna get disappointed, you know? But he's like, I don't know. I'm like, I think if you really get good at this, like, something could come of it. When all of a sudden, like so many people are watching, you're like, I actually cannot comprehend this number of people.

I can't comprehend the fact that all of a sudden now I'm making money, you know, I can't comprehend any part of this. So I'm just gonna go robot mode and like, just like, you know, you stop.

But it still doesn't fully register that. Like, whoa, like half a million people just watched that video, yeah, it feels it's like a different.

But it's, it's kind of, I think. I knew subconsciously that if I looked into it too deeply, and I thought about it too deeply, that I'd psych myself out, fuck myself over and ruin the whole thing. So I was like, I'm not gonna think I'm just gonna just tunnel vision, keep going. And like, I did that up until probably the last three months when, and it has been really uncomfortable. When when you really like, wake up and realize, like, Oh shit, this is the situation. It's like I finally turned off my tunnel vision and it felt like everything was like. That had been building for four years was now right in me and I never looked at it.

You know what I mean? Yes, and we're gonna get into that because.

Yes, but first, yes. Why did you drop out of high school? So, the summer of sophomore year, I started my YouTube channel because I was depressed. And I was like, my dad was like, you need a hobby?

I said, Okay, so I started my channel. And by the end of the summer, you know, I was making money, and I was like, And I've never made money, you know? And I was like, Oh shit, okay, this is actually pretty serious, you know? And I was loving it.

And people at school were like, respecting me because I had, they weren't being an asshole anymore. Some people still were. But you know, people were like, excited for me, and I was excited, and junior year, I was like, Okay, I, this is the year I take hard classes.

So I was taking like, three AP classes.

And long story short, it just was so. I couldn't do schoolwork and YouTube, but I was like, obviously schoolwork is more important. So I was like, okay, I'll just drop some of my classes and take easier classes. But then YouTube kept building and I was like, I already took all I'm just taking added shit to help me for college.

And I started questioning, Okay, am I even going to go to college anyway? Now that this YouTube thing is going the way that it is? I'm making an income now, I can support myself now. All of a sudden, by the end of the summer, I was like, I actually could support myself, I don't. It changed everything and I was like, I don't think I need to be working this hard.

Because I don't think I'm actually going to college anymore. I might try to ride this out and then when this doesn't work out anymore, then I can go to college. Even if I'm like 30, like, who gives a fuck, you know? And so I took one of those standardized tests and just left school, like, I kept basically dropping classes more and more. Until it got to a point where I was like, I just don't need to be here because I'm not, I'm number one, I'm not learning anything that is necessary.

It was all stuff that was only really necessary for college. I'd already taken all of the classes that I needed to, that were like normal high school level. I was just doing. Added shit, what's the point of that?

I was like, this is stupid, so I was out of there. How did you tell your parents and how did they react? Honestly, it was kind of their idea, it was kind of like it was not just my idea.

I wasn't like mom and dad, like I want to leave school, They were like, you're so miserable in school.

Well, actually, at first we were thinking about homeschooling me. Interesting, so actually, that was the first idea. They were like you.

This is not, the structure is not working right? And so we toyed around with the idea of homeschooling me. But then, after doing more research, we were like, Okay, actually, just let's just cut it, cut it. Because in I, you know, I know that I don't recommend people drop out of school.

And I think that my situation was very unique because I was fortunate enough to get all of my like, general high school education out of the way. In the first right, and that's a really like again. Like, it would have been irresponsible to leave if that had not been completed. And I and I always. I actually have never said that out loud. I don't think, but I know it's kind of fun to be reckless and be like, I dropped out of school, like, fuck that.

But it was, it wasn't this super irrational, super irresponsible. I could have gone straight to college from that point that I was at got it, you know, so like, I didn't need to.

It wasn't fucking me over, I completed my high school credits like I was done, you know what I'm saying.

And how I just was depressed, so like, I couldn't be social, you know, I couldn't deal with the ebbs and flows of friendship. I just didn't have that in my, in me. And so she understood that, and she was kind of kept up to date on, like, how things were evolving.

But she, you know, she was like she had other friends, like, so she was just like peace, you know, everybody was just kind of like peace. I really just disappeared one day, honestly.

But I refuse to ever even think about how I would change things because every bad experience has just made me me. Do you have you ever been had one of those moments?

I think the thing that I sometimes get.

For being a kid anymore, like, it was like, Okay, no, you have to get your fucking act together because you're not. You're saying, you know that you can make a living on your own and that you're going to make this shit work, and that you're going to make it last. And that, you know, moving to L.A. is a good idea and that being friends with other, you know, YouTubers is a good idea. And, you know, having to do your own laundry and do your own dishes and cook for yourself and taxes.

Like, there's so many facets of it that you're like, Oh shit, you know, I didn't realize that. This came with this, you know, by quitting school and by just going straight into being technically self-employed. I was also saying that I could handle all those other things. My parents were very helpful with the technical stuff, but emotionally, you know?

At 16 years old, you become famous on the internet. How did people start treating you differently?

They were kind of like, what is going on, you know? And so they didn't treat me any different. But they were definitely just like, curious, a lot of people were really curious. But I didn't really have any friends, so I didn't have any friends reacting to, like, what was happening to me?

And we didn't live near each other, but I made quite a bit of friends on the internet that were doing the same thing. And it was nice because there was a mutual understanding. And also there was no weirdness, there was no questions about it, there was just like an unspoken.

I'm popping off, y'all don't know me anymore. I'm different now. No, but um, so I'm. I'm on vacation in Maine and this girl comes up to me and, like, asks me for a photo.

Now I had 6,000 subscribers. I thought that this was a real interaction. My grandma set that up. No, you're like, Oh my god, you guys, I just got asked for a picture, your grandma, I'm already getting a big fucking head.

Grandma, do not play with me like this. No, but um, it was. It was sweet. It was sweet. That's actually so cute. it was hilarious.

And I'm like, Is this showing like I don't want? I started getting anxiety about giving these people like the best experience they could possibly have meeting me. And then that kind of got into my head. But I didn't have that thought in the very beginning, so that came into play later.

We're human, right?

So like, I perceive you and I'm like, you're nobody fucking hates you, right? But see you. Because I'm not seeing people giving you shit, right? Whereas like, you're not seeing people give me shit.

Everybody gets shit, and so everybody their own perception of their own career, and like general likeness is not right, right. It's skewed in a negative direction for everybody individually. I look at any other personality on the internet and unless they're like, genuinely, just a bad fucking person. And everyone knows it. Unless that's what's going on generally, like, nobody's going to see it except for you.

Yeah, like, it's almost like you.

And then they love you and it just ebbs and flows. But that is a good point to say, like, to hear from you, saying, like, you do get hate, yeah, to summarize, like, what do they hate you for?

I mean, I would say that like when I was.

But some people just found that annoying and we're like, why the fuck do people want to watch this? Which I totally get, because that's not. Everybody was going to like the style, editing and my personality. I was a loud kid, I was a, you know, outgoing kid.

And people just thought it was annoying, so that was like one thing. But then also, I think a big part of it was just like, when you become successful, people just are going to nitpick just about anything. Yeah, and so, and I understood that.

I was like, I get it, like, I'm, you know, I'm a target and I understand that. And I think some of it might have been from jealousy, and some of it just might have been from like, people just simply not enjoying me.

And like, that's fair, but it doesn't make it not hurt. You know, I can't blame people. I get the culture of the internet, but it still.

And they love the content, and then you see one, and then you're.

I will say there has been a lot of times where I've almost.

And I am in a spot where I'm ready to evolve things, and I don't really know what that means for myself right now. But I need to, like, find what mediums and what things make me excited. Because I was in this hamster wheel of, you know, creating content every single week for four years.

And the thing that kept me coming back was the fact that that's the disease. It's like, literally like a disease. Like when you start doing YouTube, or you start a podcast or whatever you do. Which I, you know, I've been doing both now for like two years or so. Like, you're like, if I miss a week, I'm done. People are gonna fucking forget, people won't care, and you, you like guilt. Trip yourself into pushing through even the roughest moments because I burped.

Because there's this stigma that, like the second you take a break, you're out. But I'm done with that. I've taken a break for the past few months, I'm like, sorry, I'm done, or two months or so, not that long.

But.

It was like, I'm just gonna start this. And then all of a sudden you wake up and you're like, I've been doing this for years. And like, who am i without my podcast? Who are you without YouTube? Who is Emma Chamberlain?

You know, what am I gonna film next? Like, what are people gonna think of? That video? was that video? shit? Like, same thing with my podcast, was this episode. Did I rant too much?

Did this episode like, was this episode fucking annoying? like, was I repeating myself too much? You know? It's like there's no end date, there's no room for a real break. There is, but you don't want to let yourself believe that.

Right, and there's no room for mistakes, there's no room for mistakes, there's no room. It just feels like, you know, your boss is humanity in a way.

Like, your boss is literally just like public opinion, it feels like, and that's fucking weird, and it's so out of your control. Because the court of public opinion evolves, it ebbs, it flows. It's not like you're reporting to one person and like, being like, here's my work for the week.

You just have to be constantly trying to guess what the people want. And when you're living by that, it's like, what formula are you to follow? There's no formula to follow. It's like uncharted territory, and sometimes the people don't even know what they want.

So if they give you an idea that might not actually work, sometimes you have to predict what people want, and it's just this whole mindfuck. And listen, I'm not complaining about it. Because in every job, in every, you know, profession in life, like, there are elements of it that are just a nightmare. And I think just with this, it's like everything could just go away so quickly.

And I think the way that I found peace in it is. I'm like, okay, if it does, then it does, and I'll just get pregnant and have a baby.

This is Emma's pregnancy announcement right now, you guys.

Every single creator does exactly what you just said. You quickly say, like, and I'm not ungrateful, and I'm not saying, I'm not like, so happy with what I have. That's not it. But in everyone's life, you have your struggles and you have your adversity that comes.

And when you have millions of people every single day having not only an opinion on you, but sort of a holdover. Whether you have a career or not. It is a lot to fucking handle as a young adult. Well, the thing is, too, about it is that.

I mean, this is just an issue with social media in general. But you're just not supposed to be exposed to that many opinions, that many people's successes, that many people's vacations, that many people's hot takes. You're just not supposed to experience that many people's lives.

We're programmed biologically to only have to compare ourselves and listen to a handful of people. I've watched a video about this, I'm not a fucking scientist, but I did watch a video about this.

I'm citing my sources. Long story short, you're just not supposed to hear from that many people. It's not something that we're evolved to be able to comprehend. So it makes sense that for us, for example, reading comments all the time from hundreds of different people, sometimes thousands, sometimes millions, that's just not a normal experience. And so when our brains react in weird ways, it's like, what else did we expect?

This is a weird situation and is not natural. Yeah, and I hate when people say, then just don't.

So then you have to. Basically, I think what we're both saying is there is no book that gives you. Here's a guideline. There is no one that can tell you this is exactly how you act. The minute you get this many followers, then this is going to happen. And then you talk to this therapist because they'll know how to. There's just no formula.

And so it's weird. You eventually moved to L.A. Yes. How did the change of scenery affect your videos and your life?

Sorry daddy gang, I'm pissing now. No, I'm kidding, you don't want us to listen to Pee go down the.

Hello, hello, check check, pee break was popping, it was popping.

I hope there was toilet paper in.

No way. Yeah, it's kind of nice to like, not be in your own.

And like, there's pros to that. But I started to feel like I could never turn it off, so I just.

And it will be like, almost midnight, and I'm like, Oh, I have a thought, and I'm like, No, I need to like, set boundaries. Absolutely okay.

Okay, so I asked you, how did the change of scenery to L.A. affect your video in your life? Well, I think a lot of people.

You know what I mean, like, she's not going to be here anymore. And I think, to a certain extent, that was a valid concern. And I think, well, okay, here's the thing.

It. It was such a huge life shift in my foundation, and my reality changed so much that my sense of identity kind of went out the window. And I was having to, like, rebuild my new. I mean, and this happens regardless of if you're moving to L.A. and doing YouTube, or if you're just literally a teenager, you know, like, there was a lot of shifting that was going on. It was like I was making new friends, I was starting to try to date guys. Like, I was like living on my own and, uh, like, trying to figure out what that entailed.

And like, there was so many life changes all at once, that like a whole new group of people, a whole new scenery. It was just like, whatever my sense of identity was fucked, and so when it came to like making videos. The shift from moving from home to moving to L.A. took such a psychological toll on me that I don't think I was willing to admit to myself at the time. But it was so exhausting. To, you know, find your footing in a new place, especially L.A. That, like, I was very drained just from life itself.

And so when it came time to like make YouTube videos, I was like, I am so fucking tired just from like, existing here right now that. I think my content at certain times, throughout the first year and a half, two years of being in L.A. like, my content had moments of suffering. Because there were just moments when I was, my life itself was a mess, and not even a mess in a bad way, just simply a mess where I didn't feel like I had a foundation. Can you?

Industry To me and to you, it's so. Being here is nice because there's a lot of people around that can relate. Because it's a very unique situation and it's comfortable to be around people that are in the same industry as you.

But, well, also, another good thing about L.A. is that, you know, there's a lot more opportunities here and it's a lot easier. Like if you have to do a shoot for something, or if you have to do an interview for something. You know, everybody's in the same area, so it's just a lot more convenient to get a lot more done. Because everything's here, it's either here or New York, and usually it's here, actually.

A lot of people from New York fly here to do stuff and so living here is very easy to get the most done. And I can't take that away. From L.A. Also, L.A. you know, it's like the weather's nice, and like, you know, you're close to the beach. Like, there's great things about L.A. But I will say that there is a lot of toxic stuff about it, number one being that you can't walk anywhere, that makes me really upset.

Number two, that's the stupidest thing to complain about, but it sucks.

Number two, being around people that are in the same industry as you is also not always the best thing. Because there's a lot of competitiveness. There's a lot of trying to, you know, use you to get farther, and that's something I didn't anticipate. You know, it's great when you can find someone here who is in the same space as you.

That, like, just wants companionship, but that's actually more rare than you think. Yeah, so there's a lot of room to get fucked over when you're being friends with people in your industry. And that's something that I really struggled with and experienced. When you say that, can you?

This person's like profiting off of me in some way. And I don't feel number one like it's having a positive impact on me, and number two like, I don't think that they actually care about me. And so that's when it gets a little messy, is when it's not a mutual thing and you can tell that they actually don't even care about you at all. And you know, it's a part of it again, like, it's a part of it. And so I, in retrospect, now that I'm far away from all people or all things that could ever put me in a spot where I would be used or would feel taken advantage of in some way. Like now that I'm far away from those things and I can look back at that, those moments when I did feel that way and I was wrapped up in those things. I forgive because I understand that, you know, it's like, we're all just trying to prove that we deserve.

To have dropped out of college, or to have dropped out of high school, or to have moved to L.A. Like, we're all just trying to make it happen. And so if somebody thought that they could benefit from me in some way, yeah, that's not nice of them. But also I understand where their head was at and I'm able to.

Can you give an example? Like, was it someone asking you to be in a video? was it someone asking to come in your videos? was it someone a brand deal like?

What are you referring to?

And so I was young and very yes, man, when I first moved to L.A. So if somebody and these like YouTubers who are maybe more established, they. I think that they knew that they could kind of push me around a little bit, not only on camera, but off as well. Just by, you know, like, they just knew that. I was really also still kind of a fan of everyone. I think they could sense that as well. So a lot of people, I think, knew that they could take advantage of me and that it would be fine. And listen again, it's fine, like, I get it, but I'm also like. But it still sucked and it.

It made me a lot less productive and it made me depressed because I felt like just an object in some ways. Which, again, I don't think that was their intent. But I felt like I was just like a fucking drone, a corporate drone, you know what I mean, like a YouTube corporate drone, right? And I honestly would say that. The ways that I was burned the most, though, were like more personal ways, like the ways that. Just like people who were like kind of bullies to me. Like behind the scenes, like you would never like. Not necessarily on camera, but like most of the shit that was like bad, was like behind the scenes, where it's just like, shitty friends. Yeah, point blank, you know what I mean?

I don't know a lot of people that like, genuinely when we're all home, like for like holidays, like, those people are not conversing. Yeah, being like, Hey girl, like, how are you doing? Like, it's not like that, it's all based on.

We're back in L.A. You want to shoot a TikTok, yes, and it, and and you're promoting. I remember doing it in the beginning of my show when I co-host.

It was like we were promoting being like best friends. We had met like three months before, of course, and it was like, but you sell this like fun lifestyle and it doesn't look great. I guess people think that if you're standing with someone that doesn't have followers, that's actually your friend from your hometown, right? No one's interested in that.

But if you're standing next to if I'm standing next to Tana Mongeau, that is logistically going to get more downloads and views than if. My friend Jackie from home is going to be next to me. Like, Who the fuck is that bitch? Yeah, so there is like an incentive to create these dynamics, but it's really.

But the question still remains, would we be friends if we weren't making content together? When we were together, right? And it's like, that's kind of where it gets foggy, right? Because it's like, we were really close. But if we weren't making content together, like, would we be hanging out? Would we even care to check in on one another?

You know what I mean, where was the intent?

And if the friendship was like, not good, then I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna back away. And I've always been somebody where I'm like, I don't feel much sadness. If a friendship's not like positive, I'm. I will be the first one to fucking cut it off. And just because, what's the point?

You know, even if we're profiting off of our friendship, even if we're not, even if it's a private friendship. Both. I will like, walk away with no remorse if I feel like it's right. And so that I kept that principle for all friendships, you know, throughout my teen years. Have you ever stayed in a.

Yeah, you know, I don't think it's necessary to have the world.

But I do sometimes fear that something will get in the somebody will even spread a rumor about me that's not real and that will become known as fact. And I know how things work on the internet, where it's like people aren't digging into every single story that they see. So if, like, a bad story that comes out about me comes out, people see it. They're just going to take it as fact, and let's say a week later, it's proven oh, that's not true.

Like Emma, Emma didn't hit an old person in the street. Like, people are still going to remember the article, that they saw, where they said, where they said that I did. And that's what freaks me out is that, you know, I don't always feel like I'm able to defend myself, and I also don't always want to. Yeah, and I also can't go in and diffuse every rumor about myself. I would be fucking, that's all I would ever do. You know what I mean if I went and addressed every fucking rumor or every fake blah blah, blah, blah, blah about me?

You know, I wouldn't, that would be actually my full-time job, so like, I can't do it. And so it's just like this process of trying to figure out, like, you know, like. I just feel so out of control of the public perception of me. Because somebody could go and lie about me tomorrow. And you know what, the other thing is, I don't like, let's say I did do something fucked up.

Let's say I did push an old lady in the street, let's say I was having a really bad day. Who knows? There's not a lot of room for having a bad day, there's not a lot of room for making a one-off mistake. And even if that's not something that reflects my character, how am I?

I can apologize and say this is not me all I want, but everybody does that in. How do people even know that? I'm being honest, you know? So it's like it kind of feels like a witch hunt in a way. And I think that in some areas, like, Yeah, criticism is necessary, absolutely. But I think that sometimes, like, people love it and so they want to feed the drama. And I don't want to be the butt of that. And listen, it's happened, you survive, but it just fucking sucks, and it sucks even more when it's not.

True, or it's not a representation of you as a person. And people make blanket statements like, Oh, we, we heard Emma did this one time, Emma is now evil all around, you know. There was like a rumor that I was a bully in high school, and I remember I was like, Okay. And I saw, like, a girl from my high school made a TikTok. That was fully not true, it was fully not true about, like me, saying some mean shit during class.

Like, made of this whole like fake story. I'm like, girl I.

We went to all girls school, we were like, nerdy, like nobody was bullying each other in high school. Is there a chance that I excluded somebody in high school? Is there a chance that I maybe made a snarky remark to someone in high school? Fuck, yes, there is.

There's a great chance that I probably did that. Sometimes I woke up too early. I was in a bad fucking mood, sure, but I never did anything evil. I know that for a fact, and you know what if I did?

I'm sorry, I, I don't know, I don't remember. Do you fucking remember what you did in high school? No, nobody fucking remembers, and we're also kids.

It's like kids playing in a fucking knife drawer. We're all learning how to be good people and you're gonna fuck up in that process. But it's the fact that, you know, my identity is in the hands of, like everyone who's ever met me, and everybody who's ever seen me do anything. And I don't have control over that, and the psychological damage is quite.

It is crazy, but also I signed up for it. So yeah, here we are, you know what I mean, most people listening to this podcast.

And it's like people are unforgiving and ruthless on the internet, and not only that they are excited when there's drama like there are. There have been episodes where people are like, I'm gonna cancel you for having that person on your show, yeah, but does it say more about me for having them on? Why are those episodes the most downloaded, though?

Of course, so that's actually you guys are listening, you are the ones ingesting it, you're clicking on it.

I don't know I. It's a it's a scary industry a little bit to be in right now. I agree, and I think the other.

I'm willing to, like, learn. I'm always open-minded, you know, and I think criticism, constructive criticism, there's nothing wrong with it. Yeah, this could have been perceived in a way that was offensive and hurtful. I totally get that. Then it's like, Okay, we'll, we'll go from there and thank you for letting me know, let's move on. Like I, I didn't have that intent, but I totally understand where you're coming from.

I'm so glad that you know, you let me know. Yeah, I'm so happy to do better next time. And to be more aware of how this could be perceived wrong. But it's when people are like, Oh, no, you're done, you're done. Because even though you had no idea what you were doing, and even though it was a complete, complete 200 accident, you're still done because you made a mistake. That is such fucking uncharted territory.

How are you supposed to predict? It's like I could fucking, like, put on deodorant in a video. And I feel like at this point, somebody's gonna be like, you're offending people that don't want to wear deodorant. Like, No, literally, you know, I understand that, like you have to. If somebody does something wrong, holding them accountable is fair and in some actually places, very good. I've learned so much from being on the internet and from people being like, Hey, when you talk about this like this, that's not cool. And I've been like, Damn, I would have never known that otherwise.

Thank you, like, truly like. I'm grateful for that. But it's when it's like, people twisting shit just for funsies. Yeah, and not giving me room to be like. It just discourages me and it just makes me. Yeah, it makes you want to disappear. Yeah, you know, how has your brand evolved? When I first started, uh, on the internet in general, I was just kind of copying what all the girlies were doing.

You know, I was like, Okay, I'll talk about makeup and clothes and things like that, and then that wasn't really lighting my soul on fire. So then I was like, I'm gonna start vlogging, and I just started vlogging, and then I vlogged for years. I mean, I was like, you know, just like filming random shit, like whatever I thought was like funny or interesting or random at the time, I was just filming it. And so, um, in some, like more concept-based videos too. Like stuff where I was like, going to children's place and trying to pick out a cute outfit, you know, like shit like that, yeah, um, and just like having fun with whatever I kind of had.

No, I was like, my baseline theme on my channel is me. So like, whatever happens, I'm just like the main theme of it. Which I mean, what kind of like, self-centered idiot. 16 year old you have to be to think that that's gonna, I know, right? I'm like, damn, it's about me, I'm like, it's about me, Okay, that's it, my.

What's your channel about, Babe? It's about me. Tune in bitch. I promise you'll love it. No, um, but really, that was it.

And then I think within the past, like year or so, I've been trying to kind of make my content a little bit more mature. Because I'm more mature, you know? So, like on my podcast, I've been talking about more serious topics and on my YouTube. You know, the last few videos I made were very like, more, just like chill and toned down and just relaxed. And like, not super based on, like, a gimmicky kind of concept. Like, just kind of just me existing and doing whatever, and like, editing the videos myself in a way that I felt was like.

Calming and more mature to watch, I would say, because I just don't think that like, I want to be making. You know, I have to evolve the things that I'm putting out, or else I'll seem ingenuine. They have to evolve with me, or else it's like, not gonna work.

Working 24 seven for the past four years. That I was teetering between having no thoughts and being burnt out and just feeling like I was like dying. Because I just could not look at a final cut pro one more fucking time, right? But then also moments of just like.

Absolutely just busting shit out and like, it was just like back and forth teetering. That left no time for me to ever have a free moment to be like, Okay, wait, who am I outside of all this? So for the fact, for the past four years, you know, I've just been on the in this hamster wheel of working and working and working and working and working. And, you know, kind of exploiting myself at times to just do as much as I possibly could. Especially because I started to get so many opportunities that I was excited about. I was like, Well, I don't want to say no, you know what I mean, like, I like, I want to do everything, but you can't do that.

But I didn't know that at the time, so I was spreading myself so thin and giving myself no time to sit back and be like, Okay, wait, who the fuck are you, who the fuck are you? And within the past, I would say, honestly, especially two or three months, I've been having a lot of like psychological struggles. Because I'm like, I'm now having to figure out, like, refine my identity. After, like, shoving it away for the past four years, ignoring it and just putting that on the back burner, it's like, now I'm left being like, I don't even know what fulfills me, what excites me. What, you know, makes me feel like I have purpose outside of my work.

I don't know what it is because I've not let myself go there. I didn't have the time to go there. And so that's kind of what I'm figuring out now. And you know, I've gotten to a place where it got so dark for me. You know, even recently that I was like, Well, I don't fucking care if everything goes away. I'm like, I don't care because I'm so. I'm so disconnected from myself that like, I need to refine that. And if when I'm ready to come back to the internet fully, and if when I'm ready to, like, you know, get back into the swing of things.

Like, I, if people don't want to watch anymore, people don't care anymore.

I need to do what I gotta do. Yeah, it's impossible to develop your identity and be online at the same time, because developing your identity means silence. You need silence, you need alone time, you need to be intimate with people. You know, you need. All these types of things that do not align with being a fucking YouTuber or even being a podcaster at times, you know, I think podcast is like, when it comes to personal identity, it's easier, especially too, because, like, they can't always see you.

There's something nice about, I don't know, but with YouTube specifically, it's like trying to develop your personality and simultaneously continue to be consistent on the internet. It's like you cannot do both because you have to have a fully formed something to show. Did you ever watch Harry Potter? You know, I did, okay.

I'm even calling them by those names, of course, of course, they literally said they were like, when we stopped the movies, I genuinely felt uncomfortable. When people called me my real name, I didn't feel like I could even identify with that name. Totally. Child stars or child performers, or now internet kids that come up on the internet.

They are losing some of their identity in the characters that they're portraying. How did the growth of Emma Chamberlain stop when Emma Chamberlain, the internet character, was born?

You know what I mean, I want to make, this is my only purpose. And then now I'm at a place where I've arrived at what I wanted to happen. And now I'm left with this feeling where I'm like, This is fucking amazing and I'm so happy that I'm here. But I don't have any more goals in this area, right? I don't have any more thing.

I don't want to get more followers, I don't want to get more views. I don't care about that shit anymore. You know? Like, at a certain point, I was like, I would love to grow this as big as I can, like, whatever.

Now I'm like, I don't really think it needs to go any bigger, like, I'm good, you know what? I mean? I'm fine with it how it is now. So I'm having to, like, figure out now what things will give me purpose outside of this. And it's a fucking hard pill to swallow. I didn't I, you know? I'm like, I'm 20 and I'm like, where I have to.

Now I have to find a whole new purpose. But also everybody is looking at me and is like, look at it, like, you know, but you? But you have this to look at. And I'm like, I need something bigger and deeper for myself. That might not have anything to do with the internet. You know what I mean, I just don't know what that is yet. And so that's been something that I've been struggling with. Is like, you know, I haven't had time to, like, you know, do hobbies or whatever.

But the other thing is is that I am now in a routine where, like, I don't really have a lot of inspiration to do things that don't involve my work. Which is a weird thing. That, like, because my work in my hobbies became one right, right? So, like, I don't have like, the desire to do other little hobbies that, like my brain convinces me, are pointless to do, you know what I'm saying well.

Like, you know, it's, it's. Everything feels very fragile, which is why I'm now like, Okay, I can't have all my eggs in this basket. I want to continue doing this. This is, you know, my passion and something that I I enjoy doing this stuff, right? But I have to find a life outside of it and solidify that life and, like, make that life something. Where. I'm not so worried about what people think of me on the internet. I'm not so worried about, you know, if this all went away tomorrow, because I do have this life outside of.

I don't really get social anxiety about talking to people like, if somebody comes up. I mean, there's been moments when it's been like, kind of overwhelming or something, just because it was like, you know, I was late to something, or blah, blah, blah. I always, you know, the actual interaction itself is always pleasant, you know? The only thing that I'm paranoid about is people who don't maybe like me and see me in public. And they like, want to film me, or are like, watching me and like, making fun of me behind my back, like, it's the fact that I could be anywhere and somebody might recognize me.

I might not actually know that they know me. If somebody comes up to me and like, says, Oh, my god, like, what's up, you know? Like, that's sweet, I don't actually mind that. It's it's the fact that I don't know when I'm not, when I'm just another human being drifting through the street, or when somebody is watching me. Because they've seen me before.

That is what makes me anxious, and that's what makes it hard, you know, because I'm constantly feeling like I'm being surveillanced, whether I know it or not. What are you doing, though, like?

But um, I, I do, like for me, doing a weekly podcast is something that I can do. Because, I mean, it's very much me. Sitting in bed and like, just talking, um. But I also think that by stepping back from YouTube, I have a lot more free time so that I can figure out. Okay, maybe I want to, like, you know, who knows what I want to do? But like, I might want to do something else that's creative that I can create for, you know, the world to hopefully enjoy if they decide to enjoy it like, it gives me room to explore number one, like what I could do next in my career, but also it gives me more time to, like, develop friendships properly. Because I also, you know, don't like to have people in my videos or in my on my podcast or anything. Because I just gives me too much anxiety. And I like it just to be me. And so, you know, it caused me to push a lot of people away because I couldn't combine work and play.

You know, I had to keep those very separate and so because of that, it was like I didn't hang out with people very often. So I'm taking this time to just like, have as much free time as possible and just let myself get really bored and like, see.

Do it for yourself. I can already feel like the tension you're like, Fuck, I know, and I know I've done it too. Where I'm like, Oh, that was such a fun moment and then I have to exploit it on my.

So, you know, I don't know like, what's like? Yeah, I'm constantly like, changing my like. I'm like, Oh, now I'm doing this, oh wait, now I'm doing this like I'm all over the place, right? Dude, you're 20 as you should be, right?

So it's like, I, but I just don't think I also don't know if I feel like that. There might be something else out there that might excite me career-wise, it might light me, light my soul on fire, you know, like, there's something out there that I might be missing, yeah, and so I want to have a little bit of time to explore that and see, like, what I want to do next.

That's gonna be exciting to me. Um, I think that's amazing, so.

Has she ever kissed a boy? has she ever get like, we don't know, right? How has people's fascination with your?

Um, so I don't want to sound like I'm complaining. But at the time, I was like, you know, people like, I remember my ex-boyfriend, uh, was like we were dating and like one of his friends. Like, was like, dude, like, she doesn't actually like you, like I don't think she actually likes you, like she's, I think she likes girls, like I don't think she likes you. And then he came to me and told me that and I was like, why the fuck would you say that? like, just why the fuck would you say that, like?

Why are you assuming that? like, because that's not true, and if it was true, so fucking be it, but like, why is this like?

Why are people speculating like, I'm like, I'm dating it, like, why do you think he thought that? So he actually told my ex-boyfriend why he thought this? And it was because I didn't wear makeup and I and I wore sweatpants a lot. So all of a sudden now I'm like, not allowed to like boys. I was like, shut, like, Right, holy fuck.

I mean, seriously like, just stupid, and I mean, I've always thought like.

I mean, I get it, we're humans, like we're curious about other humans. And so I don't think it's like, I don't think there's anything wrong with. Within the privacy of your own mind to look at somebody else and be like, Hmm, I wonder this, this or that about their sexuality? If you do that within the safety of your own mind, totally sure, but don't go to my boyfriend and be like, dude like.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree here, like, that's so fucking rude. Did that affect your relationship?

It's like, it's so incredibly nobody's business, which is, I think. Why, like, I've always kind of been afraid of getting into it is just because I'm. Like, sexuality is also something that has ebbs and flows, too. Like some moments you're like, Oh my god, I'm on like a roll. I'm just like hooking up with everybody and like, I just whatever.

And sometimes you're like, I literally can't remember the last time I felt like any kind of excitement about anything sexually. Yeah, like there's so many moments. Things are constantly evolving there, but.

Um, I also think that I'm just not somebody where actually let me praise. Because I was a very late developer as a young person. And because I didn't get any attention from guys really for my appearance, um, I definitely, like, became used to getting attention from what I was talking about and like what I was and how I was behaving and like. That was what I started to lean into more because I was like, Well, people don't, I don't have boobies, so like, nobody's looking at me for my boobies. So, you know, I have to figure out some other way to get attention. And so that kind of became muscle memory, where I was like.

Well, now I just feel like nobody's ever looking at me and is like, looking at me in a sexual way. So in order to like, get attention, I just have to like, utilize my personality and then hope that like through that, somebody will be able to be attracted to me in a more sexual way. Like, if they maybe like, like me personality wise. So that's kind of what I became used to, but it always made me feel shitty. Because I was like, I just don't think guys are looking at me and are like, looking at me in a sexual way ever. And that fucked with me because I was like.

But but why? Like, you know what? I mean? I was like, this sucks. And even now that I'm older and like, I like, my boob has grown like, maybe like this, much like, like a tiny little, little, tiny bit. But now that I'm older, you know, it's like, even though like that's not really as much of an issue anymore, it's still. There's a little trauma there, you know where? In the back of my head, I'm like, number one.

I remember people always not believing that I was like that I was somebody who preferred dating men. Uh, which like, fucked with me, but then also like, I, uh, like, have memories of, like, just guys not being attracted to me physically. And then on top of that.

Like, I'm also just not a super outwardly sexual person, like I never present myself in a very outwardly sexual way. I'm just not comfortable doing that and I don't have. There's nothing wrong with doing that. I just it's never felt right to me. Um, and I've always felt like, well, because I'm not an outwardly sexual person.

Um, like, does that make me less attractive to, in some ways, you know what I mean? So, but like, that's just. It's so interesting though, because the perception of me is is so interesting for me to like, watch like people are like, I've seen comments that are just like.

There's just no way like Emma's ever had sex. And I get it, but I get it. But then that fucks with me because I'm like, I get why they think that, so it like creeps me out, you know what?

But for you, do you ever find yourself like pushing yourself to try to be more feminine so that you?

Was good and bad, you know what I mean? Well, I think, okay, I would say when it came to. Like, any experience I've ever had in my life where it's been like a sort of one-time thing. Which hasn't actually happened a lot. But every time that it has, I feel like I've been able to kind of play a game where maybe I'm being a little bit more feminine. Because it's like, it's just fun, like, it's just fun, it's like, I can just like, be whatever the fuck I want right now, and it's like.

But it was just like, I just felt like, you know, he was very critical of the fact that I, like, maybe wasn't a super feminine girl. And like, sometimes he was like, Oh, it's actually super cool and chill. And then sometimes he was like, he's like, like, if I'd like put on jeans and come over, he would be like, Oh my god, like you finally, like, put effort in, like.

That's crazy. Like it was like, and you're like, and I'm like, dude, shut the fuck off, like, I'm like, or you know if I would be wearing makeup?

Or whatever. It would be, like a big deal. And like, it would be like, Oh my god, you're wearing makeup like, whoa, you know what I mean? or like, or like, you should wear heels tonight? And I'm like, What the fuck are you talking about, like?

I'm like, no, like, I felt like I wasn't enough, yeah, and in like, the areas that I was feminine weren't enough. So I felt like, you know, there was an effort to, like, make me more feminine. To fit what they wanted, which is like, again, it's like we were fucking kids.

We were all my relationships happen, you know, at such young ages that it's like, of course, there's gonna be shit like that. Yeah, but I would say I'm fully comfortable now in like, what areas I'm more feminine and what areas are more masculine? Because I simply just getting into a relationship where my masculine and feminine traits are appreciated. But also, like, you know, dating somebody who, like, just doesn't care about that shit and is just like, enjoys people. For like, being a person like that, it's like, in less about like.

And also it's like, kind of similar to me in the sense where, like, maybe not the super traditional, super masculine, super feminine, like. That's not playing any roles in our relationship. Yeah, you.

So this is call her daddy. Yes, I have had sex, Alex, can you tell me? would? can you tell me when you lost your virginity? or? No? Yeah, okay, I was.

Yeah, that's why. It's so fucking weird for me that I never talk about it like, I'm not like, I talk about it all the time, so it's like.

She's not like Emma's not like a nympho, like I have so much sex, you guys, right? But like it, I was surprised. I remember on that Zoom how naturally you discussed just like, Oh yeah, like, I loved that, like, I've listened to your show and I like. And I was like, Oh shit, I had no fucking idea.

Your brand is very specific, and it's not that you're avoiding it, it's.

Okay, because I feel like I'm old enough now, like I'm finally old enough, where I get to talk about it.

It was one of the most jarring experiences for me, though, in my entire life. Because it was one of those things where it was something I just like, never believed was possible for myself. Because I, you know, growing up I had these experiences of people like, you know, doubting my sexuality, you know, I even had moments where like, I was kind of like, I don't even know if I like anyone. Like. I went through phases where I was like, I feel nothing towards anyone and like, I don't even know if, like, I'm ever gonna like somebody enough to, you know, let them in like that.

And and I also was like, I don't feel like anybody wants to do this with me, you know? Like, I've never been. Nobody's ever looked at me in a sexual way before, at least in my face. So like, I don't think that this is possible. Yeah, um, and so when it was happening, I was like, Oh, it was so it was, I was like.

This is just like, feels like everything's like shifting in my life, you know? Because I was like, damn, this is like a new chapter. And I felt I had weirdly like imposter syndrome with it, right? Because I was like, I don't feel like. I'm like, Are you sure that you want to do this? I'm like, nobody ever wanted to do this, so I don't know why you want to do this. And also, I had a huge crush on this guy at the time.

So like, you know, he's even more crazy for me. Um, and in retrospect, I can look back and be like, No, like I, I like it. I was being hard on myself and I didn't need to be like that, but um.

We didn't even have sex, right? You're, it's like, it's like a movement, and then you're like, all right, we did it, because it's like one you no one has.

You're not have an orgasm. Yeah, it's not gonna fit. You're. You're not experienced, you don't know what you're supposed to be doing, you don't know what you're supposed to be feeling.

It's almost like, let me just get through this, not in like a creepy way, it's more just like no one's going to be relaxed.

This is weird. What am I? And you get in?

So I know I'm supposed to start like moaning and then like, I should, like, throw my head back and like. But naturally right now, like, I feel a little out of body imposter syndrome of like, yeah, I don't feel that yet. And it's so it's weird. But also like, if you're like, for me personally, I'm not like, I don't.

But I also like, not a super sexual person and like, there are times when I'm like, I don't. It doesn't need to be this like whole crazy thing, like, it's just, it just is what it is. And like, I don't feel like I don't want to fucking perform, I don't want to it just. And I think that the expectation to perform might actually end up being detrimental, too, at times, because you're like.

It's all about, like, figuring out what the vibe is and like, if you're just like, well, the vibe doesn't feel like making really loud sounds right now. But I'm just gonna do it anyway, because I saw it in porn yesterday. And then you, and then it's like, but then it's like, kind of like, but then it takes away from the intimacy of it. Yeah, you should just disappear and like, not think yes and like, let it happen, yeah, and that's it.

You just have to get out of your own way. I will also say to like, I think, when, what?

I think that's okay, like you're not trying to like, like you're not boring, sex like.

I get it, that's like once in a blue moon. In reality, it doesn't need to be like that, and I think it's also like, I'm thinking.

But I do think. As you get older and again, as you get to know yourself sexually, you begin to like, actually find things that you know you like. And then it's not even about vanilla sex. It's like, what works for you, you can start to implement in the bedroom. Totally not like you're faking it, but you have to actually find those things by yourself. Okay, let's move on. Um, okay, it's like, I'm gonna.

What gives you the ick? But I'm gonna do, come some rapid fire and then we're done. I know this is going so long, we need to go, I know really, go for six.

Okay, no, no, I know and I like that, I agree. I think that also like, is is really, yeah, it's like, real, and it's not like a jarring. I thought you were gonna say something crazier than I was like, Oh, that's a good answer.

Emma loves anal.

I'm kidding, that's the promo of it, okay, I'm gonna go rapid fire and then we're done, I'm ready.

I'm so sorry. Um, being cocky and honestly, when people like, just have bad taste in, like clothing and fashion.

That's not you, you, you're always hot, you always like you don't, you're not allowed to.

Yes, I have one downstairs, it's in a box. I got one when I was like, 17, that's amazing who got.

Who told you to?

It's like, you found somebody that's like a missing piece, yeah. And like, they just have all the things that you wish you had. And you learn from them, and they learn from you and they treat you with respect and there's a mutual respect. And it's like all these things, and it's like, also your best friend. And then it all comes together. And you're like, I don't have any complaints. And I don't know how that's possible, you know, could you?

But the problem is is that I want to protect the people that I'm dating. Or the people that I'm like, even just lightly talking to, or the people that I'm hooking up with. Like, whoever it is, at whatever given moment, like, even at whatever stage it's at. I want to give them complete privacy and I don't want my life to, like, affect them.

Right, um, that's something I've, like, worried about in, like relationships that I've been in that have been positive. I'm like, I just like, I'm scared that this is going to get out. Because I don't want them to feel violated. And like, they didn't sign up for this. Like, you know what I mean, and so that's why I keep it private. But also if things come out or things are speculated about most of the time. People that I've been with, or people that I haven't been with, where it's been speculation. And they're like, this is silly, right?

But I just decided to talk about none of it because I'm like, if it's true or it's not, it doesn't fucking matter. Because if I chime in about stuff when it's not true, then that means everything I don't chime in about smart. I just leave it all to the imagination and honestly, it's kind of fun to see, it's kind of fun to see.

I'm sweating, dude, I am dehydrated, my legs are cramping. We're a mess. You look great.

I'm literally, well, I mean, that was. This has just opened up a whole new chapter for me. Hours and 42 minutes.