Laverne Cox: Stop Taking Crumbs from Men [VIDEO]

Laverne Cox, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

Hey, Daddy.

Okay, I have to ask because I'm obsessed. Hey, Daddy, I'm obsessed with your outfit.

And every single time I see you on a carpet or on your Instagram, I'm like, she knows how to dress.

Thank you. You've got a vision.

I still, at 51, love to play dress up and I've been collecting vintage Mugler for the past five years.

Like obsessively, I have to, my business manager is like, you need to stop.

Basically, I've done about 15 years of collecting in five years probably.

So I need to stop.

It is giving, as the TikTok kids would say, cunt. It's giving cunt through and through.

I love, okay, what I love about, so many things I love about Beyonce is that Beyonce through the Renaissance era has made cunt mainstream.

Because cunt is a term, as a trans woman, cunt has been a part of my, you know, lexicon since I moved to New York.

So giving cunt. But then when you go into mainstream context, it's like people, like for many years, I was like, people won't know what I'm talking about.

It will seem kind of like I'm being vulgar.

So I couldn't say cunt.

But like for LGBTQ plus folks, giving cunt is like, you're giving, it's fish, it's woman, it's everything.

Yes. They try to make all like feminine parts feel so like, oh, you're such a pussy, you're a weak bitch.

But cunt gives the same energy where it used to have such a negative connotation.

I fucking love that we can now be like, we're serving cunt.

These are the contributions of queer, LGBTQ plus people, trans people.

Because in my, in the trans community, pussy has always been fabulous.

If you're giving pussy, it's giving, if it's giving pussy, you're, you are, you're lovely, you're gorgeous.

She's pussy.

Right, like next time someone calls you a pussy, be like, oh, thank you.

There's a song from the 90s.

Girl, I see this when you're old, you know.

There's a song called She's Giving Pussy, She's Giving Cunt.

She's Giving Pussy, Giving Cunt.

I need that song when I walk into the studio every fucking day, Laverne.

What's it called?

Serving Pussy, Serving Cunt.

Cunt, Pussy, Cunt, Pussy, Cunt, Pussy, Cunt, Pussy, Cunt, Pussy, Cunt, Pussy.

I don't know whose things I have to look it up, but if you just, YouTube it.

That needs to be our anthem today.

I know all the girls watching this are like, thank you, Laverne.

Because like anytime someone says something, I feel like a lot of times to a woman, we can always relate.

It's like, they're trying to put us down.

They're trying to make us feel small.

And now we're like, Pussy, Cunt, Bitch, Fuck.

And this is the sisterhood we can have from trans women to non-trans women.

There's a celebration, for me, there's a celebration of the feminine, of womanhood.

And for a while I resisted my femininity, but when I started to embrace it, I felt such power in it.

It's wonderful.

So, you grew up in the deep south in Alabama.

Mobile, Alabama.

Mobile, Alabama.

You have a twin brother.

I do.

I need to ask, what is the best part of having a twin?

There's a lot of things.

I love my brother immensely.

But having someone who's literally been there my entire life.

We shared a womb together, which is a little creepy.

But when my mom, my mom and I are really cool right now, but my mom was emotionally abusive when we were growing up.

Because she was emotionally abused when she was a kid.

So, I'll say something and I'm like, it was a month or whatever.

And she's like, no, it was just a few days.

And I'm like, no, it was a month.

And I remember it as a month and I'm pretty sure I'm right.

And I call my brother and I'm like, it was a month, right?

And he's like, yeah, it was a month.

So, the best thing about having a twin brother at this point is that there was someone else who was there who can confirm that I'm not crazy and that I'm not misremembering.

Because I think that sometimes, not that my mother's intentionally trying to gaslight me.

I think a lot of it is that she, I think if she remembered some of the things she did and said, she might not be able to live with herself.

And I say that with the utmost love and respect for my mom.

We've worked through all of that.

And I can't believe we have and we're in such a great place.

But I think telling the truth about it is really important.

And what I understand now as an adult, as a person who's been in therapy for 24 years now, is that my mother did the best that she could with what she had.

And she actually did an incredible job considering.

My grandfather was raised on a plantation in the context of sharecropping.

If we've seen The Color Purple or Watch 13th, we know that even after emancipation in the United States, black people, once incarcerated, could be sold back into indentured servitude.

So slavery in so many ways did not end if you were incarcerated.

My great great grandfather ended up in jail, the long, crazy story.

And so basically, it was slavery 2.0.

So they were still beating, you know, the black folks.

It was an extremely abusive situation.

My grandfather was terribly abusive to my grandmother and to his children.

Horrible, like horrible, horrible, horrible.

But then he was abused on the plantation.

That's what he knew.

So it's like, I mean, yes, my mother was emotionally abusive,

but she put herself through college.

She got a master's degree.

She was a teacher.

She raised two brilliant children by herself.

She owns her home that is paid off.

She's retired now with a pension and, you know, she's set herself up.

So this is incredible.

It is incredible.

My mother's incredible.

I appreciate you sharing all that because you're so right.

Like a lot of us can just at face value describe what we experienced

and we have to start to peel back the layers to understand why our parents

are the way that they are and obviously we've progressed so much as a

society still so much fucking work to do but to be able to look at the

previous generations and understand what they were going through.

We're just taking time.

So much time.

It's taken time.

I had, I needed years, particularly when I was like, when I really got

into therapy late 20s into my 30s.

I went through years of just being angry at her and I needed to be angry

and you need to get that out.

I think that's normal, right?

Yeah, I think so.

I need, because I hadn't dealt with, I didn't have the tools to deal with

the trauma of my childhood.

I was bullied at school.

I was chased home from school every day and then I came home and my mom

would be like, why are you, why aren't you fighting back?

Why are they bullying you?

Like it's just like, so there was no sense of safety that I had anywhere

and I escaped through my imagination and I escaped with dancing and being

a straight-A student, being a nerd basically, was my escape.

And so I'm grateful for all, I'm grateful for all of it.

But like it took me a minute to be able to like do some of that healing

work, start to get into the intergenerational piece and come to that

place of forgiveness and understanding and even just like understanding

now that there's just certain things that my mom won't get and that's

okay.

It's fine.

I meet her where, I'm meeting her where she is.

You're right.

You don't have to take away from the fact that like what you, the abuse

you endured happened.

It happened.

It was real.

But when you understand more of the backstory, because again, each

generation does get a little bit better.

It does help you.

But first, I agree.

When you went to therapy, first, you're just fucking pissed because

you have to heal yourself.

Yeah.

You can't have empathy for your mother yet.

Once you get to a better place of actually understanding like, I mean,

let's talk about it for a second, you saying, you know, you were bullied

like that completely shapes a child at that age.

And you're talking about being chased off of the bus.

Like what, what were they specifically bullying you for?

I mean, because I was a really feminine kid.

It's so funny.

I, before I even knew what sissy and the F word were, I was being called

them. So like my first interactions with kids in preschool, like I'm

three, four, five years old and my, you know, I'm in daycare or whatever

and the kids are calling me sissy.

They're calling me the F word.

And it's just like, where do three-year-olds and five-year-olds learn

this? And so I just was like, what is this?

You know, and I learned that it wasn't a good thing and it was, there

was so much shame around it too because my mom didn't know how to handle

it. And she, her whole thing was like, why aren't you fighting?

Her whole thing is like, you fight the bullies.

And I just was not, there was something, I was not a fighter.

I'm a lover, not a fighter.

And I, even as a five-year-old, six-year-old, seven-year-old, I felt I

was above duking it out in the schoolyard with other kids.

It felt, it felt beneath me and that, and that was another thing.

The kids also thought I was better than, I thought I was better than

them. And I, I talked white.

And I mean, it was a lot of stuff being a black kid from a working

class background.

It was that I was very femme.

So I was bullied because of that.

I was bullied because I talked proper, thought I was, they said I

thought I was white and just everything, honestly, just wanting to

sort of be more, I don't know.

I just, I think because the circumstances in the world around me

were so not it.

Yeah.

And I understood that early on.

I lived in my imagination.

And when I discovered television, I was like, there is, there's other

stuff out there.

When I, when I discovered the library and books and reading, there

are other things out there for me.

And I lived in those other worlds.

I lived in like the world that I saw in fame on television.

Like I was like, I'm going to New York.

I'm going to an art school.

I'm going to be on dance on Broadway.

I'm going to be an actor.

Like it, that was like, there is a world out there.

And so I lived there.

I lived in that world because what was going on around me wasn't, was

too traumatizing.

And I disassociated.

So I, the disassociation was a way of coping.

The escaping into fantasy and dancing all the time was a way of coping.

I learned not to even talk about it because when my mother would find

out, she would blame me and my brother.

Why are they bullying you?

And so it was like my fault.

And so I wouldn't tell her about it.

But then I remember this one time, it was probably sixth or seventh

grade.

We had gotten off the bus and we had to start running and then the

kids caught up with us.

And I remember they were kids in band.

Like it's so, it's so tragic.

It's like the band, the band kids are like beating you up.

But they had the drumsticks and they were like hitting us with the

hitting, beating us with the drumsticks.

And so we were getting beaten up, like really, you know, it wasn't

cute. And some parents saw it and called the school.

And, and then the school called my mother.

And so my mother didn't, was mad because I didn't tell her about it.

And then she was mad that we didn't fight back.

And it just was a whole, I was, it was always my fault.

And so it was something I learned not to talk about.

And I remember this time in high school, like I said it and then I

remember crying and then just kind of like cleaning it up really

quickly.

And so it wasn't till years later that I think I was, when I was in

therapy, when I was able to like say this, all these things happened

to me and it wasn't cool and it was painful because there was no,

I didn't have any tools to deal with like the trauma of like never

feeling safe anywhere.

Because I think in a way, obviously dissociating is a way to survive.

There's just no, you can't in that moment do anything other than

like, like you said, like go to a different world in your head,

watch television, find ways to escape, which breaks my heart

because as a child, really the peer dynamics are just so fucking

important to like our formative years of like understanding, like

how to treat people and how you can interact with people.

And the fact that you're running off of the bus and you're being

scared shitless, like I'm going to get the shit beat.

Even when I did have a friend, you know, in middle school, there

was, I had one friend and then eventually I remember him sort of

turning on me and calling me the F word and calling me a sissy.

And then I, so I learned early on not to trust people too.

My freshman year at the Alabama School of Fine Arts.

Oh, oh, oh, a kid that I thought was my friend, my freshman year.

I have never said that.

I said, I only said, I said it for the first time in therapy.

Oh God, just literally like a month ago.

I finally said what he said to me in therapy.

Wow, I'm sorry, I still can't say it out loud.

I can't, I can't, but he called me a racial slur.

That was so like, oh, and then there were gestures involved and

it was just like, it was, it was, it was another betrayal.

So I learned very early on not to trust people.

And that sucked.

It's funny that I'm 51 years old and I still can't say it out loud.

It's just so horrible.

And I'm, yeah, maybe eventually.

But when you say that to Laverne, when you think about that, like,

first of all, I'm so sorry.

Like, I genuinely cannot imagine as you're saying that, I'm so

sorry what you dealt with.

And I'm trying to think like, what comes up for you when you're,

when you are explaining this?

Like when you're, what do you feel when you're like, I can't say it?

I feel like, that's a good question.

There's like, there's a humiliation attached to it because he

did it in front of a group of people and he was like, kind of

showing off for them.

I think it was that we had sort of been friends and I was the

black kid and I was also the like, really femme kid.

So I wasn't, it wasn't cool.

And I was a freshman.

And so to distance himself from me, he like, he called me a kid.

And he did like, he made eight noises when he did it.

It was, um, it's so funny because I had been called everything

by the freshman year in high school.

I've been called it a C, a queer, F word.

I, I've been called all these things.

It was the first time, like I, um, it was, I had been called

something like racialized and it just like, it was so dehumanizing.

Um, it was so, um, it was so, um, it was so, um, it was so, um,

and it was someone I thought I could trust.

And so it was like the betrayal of it.

It was, um, I still haven't like, and that's, I get really, I

would get really, really angry when I see things.

I remember, um, it was humiliating.

It was degrading and dehumanizing.

There was a betrayal attached because I thought this person

was my friend.

I just want to jump out of my skin right now.

It's so funny.

And I've dealt with a lot of trauma.

Um, I dealt with a lot of stuff and this was just, it's still

like, yeah, this is the first time I'm going to say it in public.

Hey, yay.

Um, but, um, I have to say what I, what I'm grateful for though

is that for better or worse, I have had my guard up most of my

life.

I learned when it's safe to let it down and who is safe to let

it down with.

And part of why I love being an actor is that that is, I've

hopefully with the right director in the right context, I can

let my guard down and be vulnerable and share these things

even in a podcast context.

Hopefully this can be of service by sharing it with people.

And that is the gift of, of, of, of sharing things like this

that hope to hopefully be of service.

But it made me, I don't let people in easily and honest and

quite honestly, it has served me so well in my life that I'm

not, when I arrived in New York and all sorts of things and

then, you know, there were some things that happened that,

you know, weren't great, um, moving to New York for sure.

But I kept a lot of, I was, I was, I learned to be very protective

of myself and not to let a lot of people in and then becoming

famous and dealing with like the Hollywood, all the Hollywood

stuff and all the fakery and all that stuff.

There's a, I have, and I think being famous later too also

helps, but like I haven't succumbed to a lot of things and I

don't let people in easily and I keep my circle very, very

small and I'm grateful that the people I do have in my life

who are my real friends, I can be vulnerable with and I can

let my guard down with.

But I think that's, that's been a really good thing.

Believe it or not, I think eventually I had to learn to let

my guard down, be vulnerable because that's, you know, part

of life, part of being an actor, being an artist, but it's

also served me very well.

I was going to say, I think you are damn fucking right for

not trusting and opening up.

And I think from your childhood to then what you're explaining

happening to you in college, it's like, why the fuck would

you trust anyone?

And I think it's so disgusting and disturbing how this still

is present today.

Like how have we not progressed enough as a fucking society

where there are still...

There was a Nazi march a few days ago.

It's fucking mind-blowing, but I'm just so sorry because it

makes me tear up listening to you.

I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with people?

I loved that you wanted to do some fun dating stuff.

I love talking about dating because I have, I was talking

to a girlfriend and she just started therapy and she's, you

know, trying to date and I realized like how much work I've

done around, on myself around dating and I have a lot to say

that's very useful.

Okay, I love this.

In my humble opinion.

Here she comes.

I'm 51 years old.

I started internet dating in 2000.

So I have been online dating, dating apps for over 20 years.

Give us the tips.

All the girls that are like, okay Laverne.

But I met the love of my life on Tinder and it is possible.

It is tricky though.

And what I've learned, I think the biggest piece about dating

apps, but dating in general, what I just said to my girlfriend

is like she just came out of a really rough relationship.

He was emotionally abusive.

He was a gas lighter.

And so she's in therapy to try to heal from that.

I'm a huge advocate of making a list of all the qualities that

you want in a partner.

Getting really specific.

I've done this multiple times, getting specific and learning

from the last relationship.

All the things that didn't work then.

Okay, he was emotionally abusive.

Okay.

I want someone who's kind.

I want someone who's loving.

I want someone who's working on themselves.

I have a height requirement.

Sometimes that works out.

Sometimes it doesn't.

All the things, you know, all the things that I've listed.

It's really funny.

Everything.

The current boyfriend does meet the higher requirement.

The previous one did not, but I went for it.

Anyway, I was open.

So making a list and then everything on that list.

Are you that person?

Are you?

Do you meet all of your requirements?

If these are the things you want in a partner, they need to

be the things that you have in yourself because what I learned

dating on we're being on dating apps on and off for years.

Get being in a relationship breaking up getting back on the

apps learning from that relationship processing it with the

therapist.

Is that after a certain point I was vibrating on a different

level and the fuck boys.

They couldn't hear the frequency.

I was on a level by I was vibrating so high that the fuck

boys couldn't hear the frequency and it's it's a beautiful

thing.

And what I mean by that is that like I there's just certain

things that became unacceptable in those first few messages.

I mean when I was on when I was on dating apps, so I was I've

been on tinder.

Hinge was I only met one guy on hinge.

Hinge was never the app for me.

Hinge.

I did.

Okay, Cupid met a boyfriend there tinder two different

boyfriends.

Raya was a total bust for me.

Such a shit show.

Hinge and then there's trans-specific dating app.

I've been on that.

I was on j-date for six months because I was for a minute.

I was I lived in New York most of my adult life.

I was dating a lot of Jewish men like for whatever reason they

were just I literally years ago.

I was on Chelsea and look and I said, I'm America's premier

black transgender chicks the goddess.

I was dating a Jewish man at the time but for whatever reason

I was just Jewish men.

I was finding myself dating a lot of Jewish men part of its

being in New York.

I don't know what was going on but from like a good 10 years

like every guy seemed to be Jewish.

I don't know what was going on anyway, but like we love

that. I like I'm happy Shabbos.

I got to do I finally after all these years.

I got to do Shabbat dinners with with two exes ago.

I did Hanukkah, you know, you know, we did something, you

know, we love it.

Okay need your opinion on this.

So someone goes on a date.

Uh-huh.

And this is what happens on the first date.

Tell me if you would go on a second date with this person.

Okay.

Okay.

He on the first date admits he's cheated before but he'll

never do it again.

I would need more information.

I would ask him why he cheated has he done work around why

he's cheated what different about the dude that cheated and

who he is now.

How did he feel after he cheated and did how he feel change

the behavior.

I need more information.

I would need more information.

And then I think that would you know, people tell you who

they are.

If you cheated before I've cheated before in the past, but

I have not cheated on my current boyfriend and I would never

but I have worked on myself and I've learned from it and

there were things missing in the relationship.

So there were a lot of reasons why I cheated right and I

thought thought about it and I did the work around it.

So I would need more information.

I agree.

I think that's a really great answer to because listen to

everyone listening.

Like if you have cheated in the past, I don't believe in the

once a cheater always achieve.

It's just such a immature statement people grow people can

change.

And again, you need more information.

So have they grown and have they changed exactly?

Unfortunately, I wish people worked on themselves, but a

lot of people don't.

Oh, you'll be able to tell the minute you ask like your

first question.

Why did you cheat?

You'll they'll show the truth.

Tellers most men would be like, I don't know.

Like I just okay.

Bye.

Yeah, he's like this is what happened.

This will if you can tell they care and they've grown.

Yes, but more information, but still that's useful information.

Okay.

He's a 10 but his friends absolutely suck.

How do you handle that?

That's rough.

It did.

I think it depends on how much his friends are in his life.

I you know, I had my Jewish ex he was he was he was in his

late 30s and all his friends were married with kids and they

were all lovely people.

But I remember hanging out with them New Year's Eve and all

of them were talking about their kids and that's the tricky

thing about being like 51 like a lot of women who I love who

are amazing in my age group who I would have great friendships

with they have kids or they're married and I'm just it's like

kids are a whole thing.

So friends aren't it just depends on the dynamic.

It depends on the dynamic how close are his friends but friends

aren't everything because I love my ex's friends.

So true and he's out of the picture.

He's out of the picture.

Yeah.

Okay, he gets way too drunk on the first date.

That's a red.

That's a major red flag.

That's probably that's a deal-breaker.

I didn't listen to those signs when I the alcoholic abusive

alcoholic.

I did it for four years.

He was really drunk and he was mean to the cab driver.

I think those kinds of mean to cab drivers mean to service

people.

I worked in restaurants for 19 years.