Talking Dateline: The Breakup

Hello, I'm Keith Morrison, and we are Talking Dateline. Today. I'm here with Josh Mankiewicz. Josh Mankiewicz? Hello, Josh.

I think this reversal in roles is kind of cool.

Do you really? Yeah.

I do.

Yeah. You have to say hello, Josh, at that point. That's your cue.

Hello, Dateline audience.

This episode of Josh's is called The Breakup. If you haven't seen it, it is the episode that appears right below this one on your list of podcasts, or go there and listen to it, or stream it on Peacock, and then come back here after that. Today, Josh has an extra clip he's going to play for us that didn't make the show. Then, even after that, Josh will be on with this episode's associate producer, Jess Koenig, to answer your questions about the show from social media. So, just to recap, on the 16th of June, 2010,, a young nurse named Lanelle Barsock was found shot to death in her home in Palmdale, California.

Well, you know, women do not commit a lot of murders, particularly not a lot of violent murders. They more often find somebody else to do the job for them, usually some hapless guy who ends up getting the blame, or at least that's the plan. This is a little bit different, because Lorraine, in this case, committed the murder, but figured out a way to blame Lanelle's boyfriend, Louis Bonheur. Here's the thing. Louis was a great suspect.

And you've got Ike in the middle of everything, just to kind of be icing on the cake. Right, right.

You don't know how he plays into this whole thing. I think Lorraine probably thought she'd done a good job, and she certainly threw a lot of suspicion at Louis.

Sure. I wondered what it would be like to have been in her brain, not that I would want to be, when this murder occurred. And then she's going through the process of taking the body to the garage. There's blood all over the place. Cleaning up the blood on the floor enough so that they had to use luminol to expose it.

She did definitely do a good job of acting. And I think the plan, or at least detectives believe that the plan was to get luminol's body into the trunk of the car and move it some other place. But that Lorraine discovered something that a lot of people do, which is that lifting what is literally dead weight, another person's body, is very, very difficult unless you have someone to help you, and she did not. Right. So she's kind of making up parts of this plan on her own.

That's what made it all the way. I don't want to use the word impressive, but it's kind of, you know, that was thinking on your feet in a way.

It's diabolical. I mean, yeah.

Why didn't police, when they discovered bullets in her purse, was that early on, or was it later on in the case?

It was very early on that they found bullets.

And the same caliber as the bullets that caused her death.

I'm not sure that at the moment they found the bullets, that they knew what caliber of bullet caused her death, because the slugs themselves were pretty mashed up. But, I mean, look, that made them wonder. She was able to explain her way out of it and said, I don't own a gun, and they did check right away to see if she did own a gun. And the state database came back that she did not own a gun. So they thought, all right, well, you know, we're going to let that go.

The twist of the romantic involvement with Lorraine, that came out of the blue. Complete surprise.

Yeah. No one saw that coming. No one knew that. No, no. Yeah.

But there's almost some psychiatric quirk about people who do that, because there are some who are so into somebody else, so fascinated by them, that they just have this kind of desperate need to be them. And their need to be themselves is much less profound.

Lorraine invented this entire backstory. She said that she was Lenell's best friend, and they'd known each other for 10 years. In fact, they'd only met a little while earlier, and they'd had this affair. And then, when they're at the sheriff's station, Lenell's mom passes Lorraine in the hallway and says, who's that? And they said, well, that's Lenell's best friend.

Good enough at it that they didn't spend the time to kind of try to break it down, which, as you know, people tell you stories all the time. And sometimes they're true, and quite often they're not.

You know, one of the things that we see on Dateline all the time is that, you know, the murderers that we generally cover, these are not the pros. These are not hit men. These are people who have never killed before. And what they discover regularly is that killing somebody and covering it up and selling a phony story about your own involvement to police or to investigating officers is much more difficult than you think it is. And in this case, I think we found somebody who was actually quite good at it.

Almost good enough. Let's take a little break. And when we come back, we will listen to that extra little bit of sound from Josh's interviews in this case.

They are the families of the missing in America, and they're desperately searching for answers. Somebody knows something. I'm Josh Bankins. Join me for Season 3 of Missing in America. Listen carefully, because just one small detail might allow you to solve a mystery.

Dateline, Missing in America, all episodes available now, wherever you get your podcasts. For true crime fans, nothing is more chilling than watching Dateline.

Have you ever seen such a thing before?

For podcast fans, nothing is more chilling than listening.

What goes through your mind when you make a discovery like that?

And when you subscribe to Dateline Premium, it gets even better. Excuse me if I sound a little skeptical. Every episode is ad-free.

Oh, wow. So this could be your ace in the hole.

And not just ad-free, you also get early access to new intriguing mysteries and exclusive bonus content.

So what were you afraid of?

Dateline Premium. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or DatelinePremium.com.

Are you ready for what's coming?

So, Josh, a couple of things. The first interview with Lewis, the interview the police did, how did he present himself? He certainly seemed, in your show, to be beside himself when he heard what happened to Linnell.

You know, detectives watch potential suspects or persons of interest very closely in the moment where they're telling them that the person's dead because they want to see that they already know it. Are they faking it?

When I heard their reaction in that police interview, I wondered whether the police would think that was an overreaction, whether it was extreme faking.

Right. I mean, he reacted the way you would normally react. So they were thinking to themselves, well, he's good. If he's the killer, he's good at this. But, like, nothing else about him sort of said, I'm a smart, clever killer.

Yeah, that would be that.

Or if Lewis had thrown out the receipt and couldn't remember the name of the store, because it's from the receipt that they knew which store to go to. So let's say there wasn't any trace of him at the store and the system wasn't working. You know, Lewis is the kind of guy who, before technology changed, used to get locked up.

Oh, no question about it.

That's. the question, is how much farther would that investigation have gone if Lewis could not prove his alibi?

Did he supply the receipt right away when he was questioned by the police?

No, he didn't supply it at all. They found it in a search of his truck. It's not like a credit card receipt, I don't think. I think it was like the kind of receipt that comes out of the cash register. So who actually was there doing the buying, that you've got to go there and consult the security tape.

No, it takes a while.

And they concluded pretty quickly that he couldn't have done it.

How long did he remain in jail after they made that discovery?

I don't know. I want to say a couple of weeks. It was not overnight. I mean, it was a period of time.

So this is a clip from Josh's interview with the investigators, Joe Espino and Bob Kenny. They're talking about Lewis's reaction when he was released from jail. And this tells you something about the man's character.

We were not expecting a very warm welcome from Lewis. Because you locked him up for something he didn't do. We had put him in county jail for murdering a woman he loved. Lewis came over to us, and he had tears coming down his face.

And he hugged both myself and my partner, Joe Espino. To be honest with you, I was expecting a lawsuit to come our way.

Instead, I got a hug.

He shook my hand, he hugged me, and he said, thank you, thank you, thank you. He told us that in his countries from Haiti, if the police arrest you, they throw away the key.

There's no way that you get out of it. So he said that he thought that would happen to him here in America.

Pretty astonishing, really. The other question is, and I think about this, too, because some people released from prison in this country, who have been there unjustly, wind up with reparations. They sue, they get some money from the municipality, from the police, from somebody. Did that ever happen in this case?

I don't think so. I don't think so. I think Lewis was just happy to be out and be able to live the rest of his life.

What did you learn about, or tell me your impressions of Ike, the other guy?

Hang on one second.

That they found out pretty quickly.

Yeah. One of the things I'm proudest of in this story was that I was able to get the phrase, I like Ike, into the story.

I heard that, yes. But I liked Ike, too. Yeah. How could you not? My last question.

She had a good heart. She reached out to other people. And, you know, her relationship with Louis began because she saw him waiting at a bus stop and gave him a ride. She had a big heart. I mean, it's not surprising that everybody loved Lanelle.

Marcel told you a story about some shoes Lanelle gave him. Didn't come into the episode. Do you remember that detail?

He admired some shoes in a store. But he didn't have the money for them. And she bought them for him. His oldest child, his first child's a daughter, and he named her after Lanelle.

Which is quite something. He clearly cared for her a great deal. What did she want to do with her life?

Well, she was a nurse. And she wanted to sort of move up in that profession, maybe become an N.P., a nurse practitioner. And I don't have any doubt that she would have achieved whatever she set her mind to. She was a hard worker, well-liked. Everybody we spoke with who knew her was kind of brokenhearted by this.

All right. Now we're going to take a quick break. And then Josh will be back with Dateline Associate Producer Jess Koenig, to answer your questions about the show from social media.

Never miss a moment of the 2024 Olympic Games from Paris. For in-depth coverage of the athletes, events, and medal counts, download the NBC News app.

Hey, Josh. Thank you for having me.

Have you been on Talking Dateline before?

I have not. I'm a first-timer.

Okay. Well, so just a little primer here. If you want to be like me, try to answer all the questions and talk to the audience. And if you want to be more like Keith, then just remain silent for most of the broadcast.

A little bit of both. Let's do it.

Yeah. So up to you. All right. Let's see. Let's take the first one.

Yeah. I don't think I would be looking for any dates on Craigslist myself.

Rukia, I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly, says from Instagram, why was this one only an hour? It was so interesting. It should have been the regular two hours. Was there anything you wish that you could have included but had to cut for time? Yeah, maybe.

Yeah, I think so, too. If anything, it would have been kind of interesting to get more details about Lorraine or from the trial. But aside from that, I think everything was pretty balanced out.

One of the great social media names, now, Mary Queen of Scotch.

Mary, you've got great taste.

Yes. Thank you. Mary Queen of Scotch says Lorraine reminds me of Pam Hupp. Well, murderous, dishonest, lies about a relationship, frame somebody else. That's all from the Pam Hupp playbook.

A lot of similarities, Josh.

Yeah. I can't say that Lorraine attempted to impersonate a Dateline producer the way Pam Hupp did.

That's true. That's pretty unique.

That's almost the only thing. But otherwise, yeah. I mean, Lorraine definitely checks a lot of those Pam Hupp boxes.

Absolutely. Okay, so on to the next one. Joanna, at Joanna531894705..

That's a very catchy name. That's not quite as good as Queen of Scotch. But go ahead. It's very catchy anyway.

I wonder what those numbers stand for. There's got to be meaning here. But why does this detective look familiar? Has he been on before? Different case?

Well, I'm not sure whether Joanna's referring to Joe Espino or Bob Kenny. Both of them are veteran detectives. Kenny's, retired. Joe, is still a detective with L.A. County Sheriffs.

Maybe he just has a famous doppelganger out there.

Entirely possible. Yeah.

All right. Time is short. Do something. At 510, what? I wonder if they checked to see if the letter was in Lanelle's handwriting.

They did check to see whether the letter was in Lanelle's handwriting. The prosecution brought in a handwriting expert.

Yeah. Deanna Howard on Facebook also noticed something else about the letter. She says, I noticed there was a P.S. that had been scribbled out too. That was strange.

The P.

And on to our last one. Stop the squeal at Luckbox Winner. It often amazes me how these defense attorneys can try to get an obvious murder off scot-free and pin the crime on an innocent person. How do they live with themselves?

They live with themselves because they're a vital part of the criminal justice system. And if you're ever charged with a crime, you're going to really want a good defense attorney. And I know a lot of defense attorneys and they are all honorable people. This system depends on having two advocates, one on the side of the people and one on the side of the accused. And the people are not always right.

Thank you for having me.

That's Talking Dateline for this week. And remember, if you have any questions for us, about Dateline or about our stories or anything else, you can reach out to us on social media at DatelineNBC. Now, here's the bad news. Dateline is going to be off Fridays for the next few weeks during NBC's coverage of the Olympic trials, which you should absolutely watch as assiduously as you do, Dateline. But you can still tune in on Wednesdays for a new episode of Talking Dateline on all the podcast streaming platforms.