BONUS: An FBI Agent and Neighbor Ric Metts on the Kidnapping
2024-05-17 00:26:39
Twelve-year-old McKay Everett disappeared from his Texas home in September 1995. His father Carl returned from an Amway meeting to find the back door ajar and the telephone ringing. On the line, a woman with a raspy voice demanded $500,000. Over the next week, the FBI played a game of cat-and-mouse with the kidnappers, who used inside information to stay one step ahead of the investigation. Ultimately the FBI uncovered a series of crimes that started long before McKay was taken. Most shocking of all was the suspect. McKay had been betrayed by someone he trusted – a pillar of the community hiding a dark secret. But decades later, McKay’s mother, Paulette, still isn’t satisfied with the official story. She doesn’t think everyone involved has been brought to justice. Ransom: Season 1 - Position of Trust is a story of greed and betrayal and how one’s outward appearance can be dangerously deceiving.
For this first bonus episode of Ransom, I'm here with producer Ben Kebrick, and we really wanted to share more of our interview with former FBI hostage negotiator Ralph Harp. So what are we going to be listening to here, Ben?
Yeah, so this is an edited down version of our interview with Ralph Harp. So, you know, it's not the full thing, but it's a lot of the clips that didn't make their way into the main show. You know, we go out, we interview a ton of people, and only a tiny fraction of that ends up in the main podcast. So we thought that we'd share some. So Ralph goes into greater detail about the early parts of the investigation, that first night that he was out there with the Everett family.
And he also goes into how he joined the FBI and became a hostage negotiator.
I guess, can you start with, you know, what's your name and in 1995, who did you work for and what did you do?
Okay. My name is Ralph Harp. I was a special agent for the FBI in 1995.. I was assigned to the Houston field office of the FBI. All special agents are trained as investigators.
And then there are specialized training fields that you can seek out when there are slots available. I was the team leader of our hostage negotiation team, and I was the team leader of our evidence response team. Those are the two venues that I was involved with in the McKay case.
Are you from that area of Texas originally?
I'm originally was born and raised in North Carolina. When I graduated from a high school in 1978, I moved to Washington DC and began working for the FBI as a support or clerical employee at age 17, and then continued to work for them until I got my degree, became a special agent and was eventually transferred from Washington to Houston.
And what made you, at 17, want to work for the FBI?
My family comes from a background of being factory workers, and I had no plans to go to college after high school. In fact, prior to my generation, no one in my family had even graduated from high school. I had a high school principal who was encouraging me to go to college. I didn't think I could afford it. He asked me what my option was.
This was the time of the Vietnam War. I told him I planned to join the Army. He thought I was too young to go into the Army right away, so he was trying to guide me in different directions. And in fact, the FBI recruited clerical employees from all over the country every year. When high school graduation came about, he made me an appointment with an FBI agent to be interviewed for a job without even telling me about it.
And that's really the push that got me headed in that direction.
I guess he saw something in you where he thought you'd be a good fit for it.
I suppose. so. I just think he was the type of person, the type of principal that was really into looking out for all his students and trying to get them headed toward a successful future. He certainly did for me.
Can you maybe describe Texas in the late 80s and early 90s?
Houston was the energy center of the country. It was just a big city, just very active, a lot of things going on. The oil market goes up and down. And when the market is good, people jump into it and they make a lot of money fast. Then, you know, next year, a year after, they may be broke.
It ripples all throughout the economy.
So do you remember where you were when you first heard about the McKay-Everett case?
The case started late that evening, about 11 o'clock, when the parents discovered their son was missing. They initiated the call to, I presume, the police, but some way very soon thereafter, the FBI got notified and I got called to the Everett home.
Is it unusual for the FBI to get involved so early?
Generally, there's a factor of 24 hours, people say. But there's an indication that there has been an abduction, and especially a minor, someone extremely vulnerable. We can be called in earlier. So I would say that if we have close, good liaison with local law enforcement, they may call us in sooner. And I assume that was the case in this situation.
And you said you were called in because you were a hostage negotiator.
Initially, yes. In case we got onto the phone and started having a conversation in the context of managing negotiations, with him holding a hostage, I was there for that primary purpose. When we get involved in a case like that, we throw all our capabilities into the mission. I was there as a negotiator. Mark Young, as a profiler, was there to do any psychological assessments that he could.
Cindy Rosenthal was there to address any legal issues that came up. We would have an entire staff of investigators on hand to run down leads as they developed. And we would have a squad of technical agents that are trained in intercepts, tracking phone calls. They would be on hand. They would be a primary player in this context.
Do you remember, were there any suspects at the point that you showed up?
What I remember is that we were discussing that one of the neighbors had reported seeing a vehicle. And we were trying to identify who, amongst the father's and mother's range of associates, had any vehicle that might fit that description. There was no indication whatsoever of any forced entry. The alarm was turned off. And I think when the father got home, the door was open.
So all the indicators suggested that it would have been someone that McKay had known. You always have to keep your mind open, because quite often when there's violence at home, there is a family member or close associate being involved. So you can never exclude that. The other thing you're looking at is the emotional reaction of the family. And the mother, I know right from the beginning, everything I heard, she was just completely distraught.
The father was a little, his emotional level appeared a little flat, but that was not enough to raise a very considerable level of concern about him. But it was noticeable.
Do you remember the parents, Carl and Paulette? Could you kind of describe them?
I had very little contact with Paulette. Carl, I had contact with. He was a businessman. He looked like a businessman. He conducted himself like a businessman.
Just everything about him to me looked like, you know, he was what he was supposed to be. He was American from the South. He was neat, appeared intelligent. And I saw nothing incongruent with who he was and how he appeared.
There's this lead with the car and you're waiting to see if the ransomers will call back. You know, was that confusing at the time that the ransomers didn't call?
No, it's not confusing, because ransomers, hostage takers, they're unpredictable. They don't act in any particular pattern. So in that context, I'd say nothing is unusual. You just deal with what you get.
Did this case change you in any way or kind of the way you looked at people that your children interacted with?
I don't think so. I think that you will find law enforcement officers in general become very skeptical and security conscious early on in their career and stay that way for the rest of their lives.
Is that, like you, guys know the truth, and if the rest of us knew, we would all do that?
We see the harm done. Other people read about it, but they don't see it up close and personal. They don't touch it. They don't smell it. And so they are kept back a distance from it.
You're right up on the edge of it. It's because you see it, you realize that there are really very bad people out there and they won't hesitate to harm an innocent person if they feel like it's in their best interest.
I think I kind of like struggle with the takeaway from this case, and whether it should be like you can't really trust anyone, or if this is such a rare event, it's kind of like if, every time you're out in the rain, you were afraid of being struck by lightning or something like that. Do you know what I mean?
Yes, I agree with that. Exactly. You have to respect lightning. When it starts lightning, I get off the golf course, but I don't live in constant fear of it. I just do what common sense tells me it's a smart, safe thing to do.
Yeah.
And I love the FBI. It was a great career. It was a wonderful opportunity. I never even dreamed of having to be a part of my life, but we make mistakes, and I'll give you a perfect example. The bombing case at the Olympics in Atlanta, Richard Jewell, there was evidence that pointed in his direction and we leaped at it and we followed from him back to prove that he could have been the person who did it.
Yes, he could have been the person. Our mistake was you don't go from the solution back to the beginning. You go and work your way from the beginning to the solution. He could have done it, but he didn't do it. We rushed to that conclusion and we badly damaged our reputation by doing that.
And you have to remember that in every case. Just because you find the person that may have done it doesn't mean that you found the person that did do it. You start at the beginning with the evidence and you build a chain of links, solid chains, step by step, until you get to the only person that could have done it and did do it. And you always have to keep that in mind. And sometimes there are debates in cases where some people have convinced themselves already that this person did it and there's not really strong evidence all along that chain.
And when we get it wrong, like we did in Richard Jewell, it's a bad thing. It's been a pleasure talking with you. I hope I was helpful.
Yeah, no, for sure. For sure. I enjoyed this too. Have a good Friday.
We'll be back after a quick break with another interview. This one from Rick Metz, the family friend who got polygraphed in episode two.
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I'm here with producer Ben Kebrick. We really wanted to share more of our interview with Rick Matz. Rick, you might remember, he was the friend of the Everetts, who became a suspect and who was polygraphed.
Yeah, so Rick told us some really interesting stories that we didn't have time to include in the series, including like this wasn't actually the first time he was polygraphed by the FBI. Wow. He just had stuff to say about the Everetts and Conroe and kind of what living through this horrible crime was like.
Just some great stuff. Thank you, Ben. Appreciate it.
My name is Rick Matz. In 1995, I had just started working with the Montgomery County Appraisal District.
And are you from Conroe?
Yes, I live on the same property. for 135 years now. My family has been right here. Same property, most of the same house.
And is that kind of like farmland?
Yeah, it's farmland.
And how did you first meet the Everett family?
First Baptist Church, Conroe.
What was your impression of them when you first met them?
Lovely people. And the father and I, I soon found out he had an interest in horses too, and that was our connection. And then I got to where I helped them work in their yard and do odd jobs around their house in between working at the appraisal district. They were just a lot of fun.
And so when you first met them, had they already had McKay?
Yes, he was eight or nine. Fun child, outgoing little boy. He was just a boy. I mean, everybody loved the kid. He was really smart.
He was their only child. So they really doted over him. I mean, he played the violin. He was in piano. If he wanted to do it, they saw to it that he was able to do so.
I hate to do this, but now I'm hearing a lot of birds and stuff.
Oh God, yes. Hold on. Don't say nothing. I hear them, the damn blue jays. Hold on just a second.
Hey, this is still close to the router.
Can you hear me? So you're saying you did gardening and stuff. I guess, like, would you have been close enough or done enough work around there that you would have had a key to the house and stuff like that?
I did have a key to their house. I did babysit that child. occasionally, when they would go away. Even overnight stays, I would go and stay at their home.
And had there ever been any problems with McKay? Problems with that or issues that had come up?
Never, ever, never, never, no.
So what was the experience of getting the polygraph like?
I knew what it was. It was, look, I'm the one that needs to write my own podcast, okay? It wasn't my first polygraph where I had done nothing.
But I knew what it was about. I knew how to be calm. I knew, you know, if you gasp for a breath or something. So you've got to just stay calm and answer their questions.
What were you in for a previous polygraph for?
Jesus. Okay, here's the skinny. I'm not poor, but I love rich hobbies. Horses. The first person were horse trainers of ours, and I lived at their home, and she mismanaged some money.
And she accused me of stealing $40,000 of jewelry and cash. Good God. And back then, they didn't have polygraph. here. I have it to be taken to Austin in the back of a trooper's car.
And both times, I will tell you, at the end of the polygraph, I just said, well, what do you think? The first one, he said, get the hell out of here. You're a waste of my time. You've done nothing. And the Everett case, when I was leaving, I said, well, will I hear from you again?
He goes, hell. no, go home and don't worry about this. It's going to be okay.
And did that kind of first incident, did that come up after this thing had happened with McKay? Like, was that one of the things the FBI brought up?
I don't know. They didn't know about that. And I never told the Everetts either. It's just embarrassing. But I was very vindicated from that one.
very quick. I will tell you, I was at a horse show where those people were. And it was very smooth, a new facility, polished concrete. And I had tennis shoes on. I'm walking to get drinks for people in the van.
It's a horse van. And I step on something. I thought, well, this is stupid. Why would they have left a big old pebble? Ben, I stepped on that freaking ring that was stolen, okay?
I kid you not. And I'm a believer, but it made a big believer for me. I picked it up. I'm 22 at the time. I go back to the van.
I'm crying. And they're like, what the hell?
And I opened my hand and they go, oh, my God, where did you get that? Everybody knew about it. And I told them. And our trainer's wife says, come with me. And she took me over there to that trainer and his wife and said, we have something to show you and to clear his conscience.
And I held my hand out. The lady told her husband, I told you I had that on this morning. And I said, well, let me tell you something. This is proof. I don't steal.
And I didn't take anything from you. So anyway, the husband sent me a reward and she never said she should. So there you go.
So you pass the polygraph and then was that kind of like the last you heard from them, or did they ever come back around to ask more questions?
No, our pastor at the time, they hadn't been there long, but he phoned me and he said, Ricky, the Everett's would love for you to come over. I said, I'm not ready to go over there just yet. And he was a retired DPS officer. They said, you know that this isn't, they're not accusing you. They just have, they're trying to find McKay.
I said, I understand all that. But, and he goes, but I get your grief too. And I don't know how many days, it wasn't many. I went over when I knew it just would be Carl and Paul at home, and they both apologize. And again, I'm an adult.
I realized this is not about me. Their only child had been abducted and taken.
Yeah. Did you like later on kind of go back to doing handiwork for them and stuff like that?
No,
no. For a good number of years, it kind of, I was just turned off by all of it. And again, I still was not pissed. I wasn't mad at him. It just was, I don't know.
It changed everything.
What was it that kind of? initially rubbed you the wrong way? Like, did it feel like?
What rubbed me. the wrong way is, if I was such a close friend, why was, and I wasn't really being accused. Why was it that the librarian is the one who called me and all these other bastards all knew about it and they were all over their house. But, you know, I was on the other side of the county that being talked about that, why would he do something? So stupid.
So I'm just like, it was much too close.
I guess, just to be a little bit of a like devil's advocate, or something. I mean, like. Randy Bartlett was a neighbor who was like out with them that night, you know, so he, he was one of the first people that found out, not because they told him, but just because he, you know, he was at the Amway meeting or whatever.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. But he was also eager to point a finger at a poor kid on the other side of town too. Yeah. That pissed me off.
I was more pissed off at the community of friends than I was at the Everett's.
Why did the librarian call you? Like she was hearing rumors or?
Well, she, she was the librarian at McKay school and her daughter and I were best friends. She's married now and we're still very good friends, but we hung out a lot. So she knew where I worked. I mean, I saw them all the time and she heard he was kidnapped. So she called it to ask me, is it true?
I hadn't heard about it.
Yeah. But this is just like the morning after.
Yeah, it was the morning after.
Yeah.
That is correct.
Um,
you know, sorry if this is too personal.
You're not, listen, nothing's personal to me. Okay.
Uh, are you gay?
I am.
And do you, do you think that was a factor in you being a suspect? I do.
I do. Yes, because they wrote in the stupid little book that, you know, I fit the mold of a pedophile because I'm 30, I don't know, 35 maybe at the time. And I lived home at home with my mother. I don't live at home with my mother. My dad was alive.
I have an apartment on there. It's attached to our home. But I told you we lived here and in 35 years, there's 14 people that live here. Yeah. Come on, say it correctly.
Yeah. Yeah, I was pissed. Did we ever talk about me being gay? No, but they knew.
Yeah. And, and, and like, was that a factor in kind of like why you were angry about it? Like, did you feel like they were kind of discriminating against you?
No, no, no, because I don't care about that. No, be strong and who you are, and if they don't like it, then go to hell. I don't care. I mean, I don't do anything that should offend anyone. Because I mean, people know, but I don't wear some rainbow flag.
I don't wear pink slippers. I don't do all that. Yeah. If you want to, you can. It's just not me.
Yeah, I've got to say, like, kind of reading through the books, I was also kind of confused about the way they worded it, too. And I was kind of like, how did this, like, why, why did this guy kind of emerge as a suspect early on?
And then I kind of, yeah, wondered, you know, there is kind of this unwritten reason that they didn't really want to put in the book, I guess.
Probably, no, they didn't. I'm glad they didn't, because it wouldn't have been very nice. I mean, and you know what? That's 20, what is that? 27 years ago now.
Yeah.
So at that time, kind of in that area, you know, was it common for people to be out?
Not as much now, but the efforts really were accepting of others. The organist and pianist at the big First Baptist Church where I went were gay. Yeah. Everybody knew it. It.
just, no one was as open to talk about it as they are now.
Yeah. People didn't talk about it, but people knew it was a thing. That is correct.
100 percent correct.
Yeah.
So do you remember then, like, did you kind of follow along with the rest of the case and kind of hearing about?
Oh, yeah, because it was on the news daily, you know, and it was on for a long time. Yeah, I did follow it because I cared. It was horrible. I mean, it was their only child and he was a wonderful kid. I mean, he had been here and stayed with us here.
And then, you know, yes, you would follow it.
Yeah. When you think back to McKay and Paulette, are there any kind of stories that pop into your mind when you think about them?
No, except a really wonderful connection between a mother and a son. I mean, I never heard him have to get in trouble. He never got in trouble.
I mean, he was a little boy, but I mean, you know, he never got out of line. And Sunday school, he was really, he was just a good kid.
I think one of the things I struggle with this, what's the takeaway from this story? Is it you can't trust anyone? Or do you know what I'm saying?
I do. I just say, never let your guard down.
Yeah.
Which, basically, is what you're saying. You can't trust anyone, but you have to have some sort of trust, or you're in isolation.
Has it changed the way you view people at all?
No.
No. I mean, I've been through a lot, a lot of, I didn't ask for, but I just think sometimes life just dishes you out bowls of untasty food and you just have to spit it out, keep going. But no, because if you get all crass and crusty, then you become a hermit and then you don't trust anyone. Yeah. But at the same time, you just can't let your guard down.
Yeah. Anything else that's kind of popping up in your mind before we...
No, I think I've told you plus. Well, Ben, thank you. It's been an event and take care.
Yeah, you too. All right.
Bye-bye.
For more information, including pictures, find us on social at The Ransom Podcast or visit our website, ransompodcast.
com. Ransom is written and researched by Ben Kebrick and hosted by Art Rascone. Production and sound design by Ben Kebrick, Aaron Mason, and Trent Sell, co-created by Austin Miller. With Podcast One, executive producer Ellie Dvorkin. For Workhouse Media, executive producer Paul Anderson.
And with KSL Podcasts, executive producer Cheryl Worsley. Ransom is produced by KSL Podcasts in association with Podcast One and Workhouse Media.
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