JRE MMA Show #158 with Tank Abbott

I remember meeting you officially, or in my memory, in New Orleans or somewhere around there. When I was sitting, like, in an auditorium, and you came in and sat down next to me. And at that time, people used to bother me all the time and so I was getting some fresh air and away from everyone. And you came up and sat down and I was in my head, I was like, Oh, no, I just want some peace.

And you rolled up and you were totally cool, and I was like, Oh, that guy's cool. We had a good session rapping.

You know, when you talk about the early days of the UFC, you are one of the real original legends of MMA. I mean, you were one of the very first guys, and you were one of the very first guys. First of all, you were one of the very first guys, if not the first, to wear gloves.

I don't think it was Dick's, but it was something like that. And they were bag gloves and I put them on and I go, these would be perfect. But they had a post in them so you couldn't really wrestle with them, and I was like, Hmm, I could take the post out. I ended up cutting it off and it was just a clear, plastic, thick tube that you could hold on to. So I got rid of that and I go, these are perfect. And I think they were harbinger gloves. And I knew because I'd been in hundreds of street fights, altercations. That's where I come from, although I've wrestled since I was eight years old, but I used to beat people up on the street.

So I knew my hands would get hurt, and I'm like, you can't fight three times in one night without your hands getting busted up. So I cut those out and I go, these are perfect. I could wrestle in them, as I said, I'd wrestled my whole life, and they were perfect.

What were the rules? You were allowed to wear wrestling shoes, you were allowed to hit the nuts back then your first fights, you were allowed to pull hair, hit the nuts.

Anyways, they you just couldn't. I can't even tell you what you couldn't do, but you couldn't bite and you couldn't eye gouge. Those were the only two rules.

So at the fighters meeting, they have these meetings with all the fighters and they all sit in there. And I guess think they're badass, but I guess they are in their own world, so they're all sitting around. And big. John McCartney was up there explaining the rules and I think he was having trouble since there wasn't any.

So at the end of that, I asked him. I said I had the gloves with me and I said, Hey, can I wear these?

And in his big, bellowing, goofy voice, he goes, Oh, if you want to wear them, go ahead. Thinking I was some kind of fool, when, in fact, I was thinking everybody else were fools. They've never really been in a fight. And your hands get busted up, so.

I'm just passing through. So they x-rayed it and said I was all right and went back to the cocktail party and had some fun.

I couldn't run, I couldn't do anything, and I ended up taking the fight. I told him I didn't want to fight. And then, back in those days, they had ways of stacking the cards against you.

And so the owner of the show at that time says, Hey, show up. You got a small or you have a boxer, your first fight, so that's not going to be a big deal. And he goes, Then you got a little guy like a 200-pound guy that was from Shamrock's camp, it was a bow lander.

I couldn't do anything and, like, Jog one time around the track of 400, I couldn't do it. So I go and take the boxer, make short work of him. Because boxing is good if you're going to box and stand up in a ring, but you're not going to go anywhere in a fight. Just with boxing as a skill, it might help you throw a punch and that kind of thing. But if your main plan of attack is boxing, you're going to get taken down and you can't box from your back.

So anyways, back to the show. I take short work of him and I'm like, all right, so I got this little 90-pounder, 190-pounder and make short work of him. And I think I was supposed to fight Mark Coleman at that time and I was like, Oh well, we'll just see who's tougher and not get taken down and we'll just throw punches. And he's not really, at that time, very skilled on his feet, but I had at least a fighter's chance at the whole deal. And so you have these dressing rooms that are screened off and there's an opponent or not an opponent. Alternate. Big guy going crazy, making all this noise, he sounded like an elephant running around in a cage.

I'm going, What the hell is that guy doing? I go, he's not even fighting, he's just an alternate. Well, it turns out it comes for us to go in with Bolander and what happens? Oh, he pulls out.

Why did he pull out? Oh, he just couldn't make it and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, and I just fell off the Turnip truck. And next thing, I know I'm fighting this 300-pound-plus guy who's all jacked up on God knows what and going, ah, crazy. Who was it?

FEROZO Oh so, I went out there. And this is at the advent of referees and I don't care about winning or losing. Never have. I'm always down for the fight and the battle of fighting.

And getting bloody sweaty, getting punched and punching people, man, that's what it's all about for me. And so I'm like, Oh well, I'll get in there. And we banged it out and they had three refs and they gave him the fight. I've had people say, if you really watch it, you won that fight, don't care.

They suckered me in with a little guy and then they throw in a 350-pound dude. Ended up kind of ruining the show because Coleman didn't have anybody to fight, so he went out with Randleman and did like a wrestling exhibition.

And it was like, why did you do that? You didn't have to pull Shamrock's guy out? It was behind-the-scenes kind of things that were all prevalent at that point in time.

Buffalo, right? And they said, Hey, there's been a change of plans, you've got to go to Dotham.

So I went to Dotham and I was sitting in the like two-story hotel, not really a hotel, but like a motel-type thing. And I looked out across the parking lot and there was a bar there. I said, Yeah, what the hell, why not?

So I ended up walking across the street and I was drinking at the bar with this crazy old country guy, old-school dude. He's like a peanut farmer or something like that. And we got blasted.

And he goes, Come on, I'll take you to the arena. And I'm like, Okay? So we get in this old pickup truck and he turns the key and it sounds like a dragster. And I got Hillbilly, Hayman or whatever driving this thing, and we drive to the arena. And I'm like, No, no, no.

I'm supposed to do an interview. He ends up parking on the island, a grassy island. He drove up the curb. I stumbled in there and David Isaacs is like, Oh my God, what's going to happen next? They got banned, and then I showed up out of my mind.

And I think there might be a clip of me all drunk saying stuff I don't know.

I was hoping to go on. I had one year of wrestling in junior college.

And a dumb, drunk friend of mine drove into a light pole on my birthday. That's why my teeth got all knocked out, and it also put a gash right underneath my knee and mangled my knee on my left knee. And so my wrestling. I came back like halfway, maybe a third of the way into the season, and I just couldn't. I didn't have enough time to get whatever.

It's all written, meaning spiritually. And so I didn't perform the way I wanted to perform my sophomore year. I did not continue, no one was interested in me, so the whole time as a young man, I wanted to box.

And my mother said, Absolutely not, not the CTE and everybody boxes is stupid and you're not going to do that. And I'm like, Oh man.

So I didn't have anything to do. I was 18 years old and I said, you know what, I'm going to box? And the same guy that it was back when Mike Tyson was on fire and he was the baddest man on the planet.

And I was a young man. I go, not my planet.

And so, you know, he would obviously kill me in boxing, but there's not a boxing ring on every corner. And so I was all fired up with that. So the same guy that I worked for at the clothing company where the cut and sew type thing was for medical clothing. He lived up San Luis Obispo way.

And he started boxing and we were at a, you know, just like what you would think, going to a boxing gym and learning how to box. And I go, Man, I want to box. And he said, Well, come on up and I'll introduce you to my trainer and maybe, you know.

Anyways, that got the ball started rolling, basically. So went up to San Luis Obispo and there was a boxing gym just outside of there, a Tascadero or something like that, and so I went to the gym. And it's like, you see these reels where these guys, all you learn a skill like boxing. And then somebody that comes in that's a complete novice has no clue of what's going on.

And they take advantage of these people. Oh, you think you're tough, you want to box, well, if you don't know how to box. So that was the vibe when I went into the boxing gym and I go, Hey, yeah, I want to box.

Yeah, sure, I'll do this, and he goes, Are you sure? I'm like, Yeah, so they go well, you want to spar, and they're all snickering.

You want to spar? And I'm like, Yeah, isn't that what we're in here for? isn't that what you do?

And they're like, Oh no, you have to learn, and I'm like, OK. So they got like, all kind of like, chuckling, going, Oh, he wants to spar. And so they went and got a mouthpiece from a local, like, what do you call those stores? sporting goods store?

And it comes back and they were trying to melt it in coffee and all that kind of stuff. And so this guy's got a name, a very big name from the 70s in boxing, and I don't need to talk about it. His family has a big name, can't say his name.

I don't know, there's no point in it. Yeah, it could, but oh, I was training with this guy and he did this guy. I have it on videotape and all that kind of stuff, so it's not like I'm making up stories.

I'm the antithesis of trying to get myself over, I try to just go, no, no, no, you know.

So I get in there and they're all like, Oh, this is going to be great. And this guy is a heavyweight and he had like eight professional fights. And I believe they thought they were going to use his name and push him and get him some money somehow.

And so I'm like, OK, I put boxing gloves on and hit the bag and played around and sparred with people, but I'm like, OK, this is what we're going to do, we're going to do it.

So they let their guard down, get a little relaxed, think they're just going to tee off on you.

And that guy was filming it, the guy from the clothing store anyways, or factory sporting goods. Yeah, but yeah, and so he's in the back going, Oh my god.

Oh, my God. And I enlightened him that I didn't need to know the skill of boxing to take out somebody that had a professional fight in boxing. I pretty much handed it to him.

Even when you lost, you were like, that guy fucked me up, that guy kicked my ass, you were said you got molested by the lead singer from Queen.

He was slapping me.

But it was fun. Man, you always brought a party, you were having a good fucking time, you were having a good fucking time fighting. That's what made you a legend a lot.

Everybody thought that the skilled martial artist was always going to beat the fighter. You were a skilled martial artist, but you were kind of more of a fighter. Just a dude who fucks people up for you to just be going out there and knocking people out. You became the biggest star of the UFC, even without winning it.

You beat a lot of good guys, but your power and your attitude. When Matua went out and you did the little fucking dance, everybody thought. Martial arts was supposed to be bao sensei spirituality and meditating in the river. You were out there, getting wild.

It's a skill, but fighting is games. Yeah, but I coined this phrase, I believe.

Fighters fortitude.

Because fighting is not a skill that you learn and you become tough. Hoist Gracie is not tough because he knows jiu-jitsu. He's a tough man and all these guys that fight in the UFC are tough men, not because they know skill.

Like these people.

Who cares? Anybody that sings skill is not a fighter.

You're a pussy, frankly. You sit around and go, I can do this, and I can do that, doesn't matter, it's how tough you are, your fighter's fortitude.

When someone's got a thumb in your eye socket or taking a big bite out of your back.

And how you react and what you do from that, that's what fighter's fortitude is. It's not like, oh well, he's got his thumb in my eye, maybe I could arm bar him or put him in a triangle.

That doesn't save you. Fighting is emotional. It's not about skill, it's what is inside your head, the heart you have and what you need to do to get things done.

To beat the opponent. Hopefully, that's thinking the same thing you're thinking, and that is, I'm going to get to this point where I can kill this person.

Or let?

Or kill him. But basically, fighting is to a point where in the street anyways, and everybody that I beat up was trying to do the same thing to me in the street.

They were trying to beat me up and get to the point where they can make the decision of killing me. And that's the whole point of a street fight, and it's not about, oh, I got better skill than you. That's the difference between a street fighter and somebody that goes to the gym and learns how to throw a correct punch or a submission hold.

That's going to save your ass. You can learn those things, you can't be tough by learning those things, you can become tougher by learning those things. And if you're a tough guy and you learn skills, that makes you tougher.

Like Hoise Gracie, he's a tough man, but that guy's got skills up the yin-yang in jiu-jitsu that makes him even tougher.

You watch them sparring, you watch them hitting mitts and you're like, This guy's insane, and then they fall. They maybe reach like 30 of their potential when they fight.

You can see the panic in them.

And they'll just try to survive. And there's a difference. And it's the great ones, all like John Jones, like so many of these guys. Like, they find a way to win and they never give up, no matter how chaotic it gets, no matter how bad they're losing, they find a way.

You get goosebumps every time, every time I see it, every time I see it, I get goosebumps. It's like that thing, that is the difference between a fighter and just someone who's skilled. That was something that you, I think, introduced more than anybody in the early days of the sport.

This is it, you want to see this, because this is so fucking good, man, what?

The music, yeah, but it's part of the fun thing.

So they're doing it this way to avoid copyright strikes from the UFC, they're just showing photographs of it. But it's the kind of person who never gives up, the kind of person who finds a way, really knows how to. Actually, it's not just skill.

There's another element, and that's what you're talking about.

And then UFC 6 came along and they came up with the guillotine.

Now Oleg got the guillotine on me twice and I fought myself out of it. I've never timed it or whatever, but it was a while. I was losing consciousness, I was seeing Black, but I pulled myself out.

In fact, he brought up the fishhooks when I finally, the first time he got it. And I pulled my head out and he was laying there and I'm like, What are you going to do now? And then I reached down and fishhooked him and started banging his head on the floor.

Look, he's breaking us up. Why did he do that?

But he's all into skill and everything else, he has no respect for fighters, fortitude or anything like that.

They didn't have a ref. So Art Davey goes, Hey, what about that big guy, Big John? And then Big John was a cop and everything. And he did background checks on me before I got into the UFC. Like, Oh yeah, no, this guy, really, he's got a record.

I've been arraigned at least seven times for beating people up.

And shit was hitting the fan, it was getting bigger and more and more. You're going to get in trouble pretty soon. Thank God, I had a great attorney.

He was a guy that could point out the truth and people would see that and the D.A. would go, okay, community service. I'd go do that at the boxing gym.

So anyway, so John checked into it and he goes, No, this guy really is a street fighting legend, like Tank Murdoch.

And obviously the guy's dad was a cop, and that underlying it doesn't matter. But he did not like the fact that I came along after the gracies because he was like a stooge for Gracie. Jiu-jitsu and the whole nine yards. And when I came along, I kind of said, No, no, no, no. Fighting is emotional, it's not a skill.

It's not a skills match, it's what you have in your head and he obviously doesn't have anything in his.

But so at Puerto Rico, I used to go around to Dojos and go in there after I'd cruise around drinking a 12-pack in my van. And we'd pull up to Dojos and walk in there and go. Does anybody want to fight? And nobody did, and so I lost my train of thought on that. But oh, this is it.

Okay, so when I was working out with weights and I wasn't a strong day for me. So you have to know when to say no. I'm not lifting today. So I felt compunction and I needed to go do something. I said, let's go check this jiu-jitsu place out.

They had flyers at the Westminster Boxing Gym, where I was boxing after I left that Bakersfield thing. So we go in there and all the other kung fu and wing chun and all that stuff. No one ever wanted to fight me and I go. Let's go check out this jiu-jitsu thing, see if it's real or not. This guy's supposed to be a world champion and all this.

And since it's out there, I'll say who it was, but it was Alon Gose and so he's supposed to be some world champion this and that. And at this time, we're totally green to having really respect for jiu-jitsu or anything like that. And I was with Paul Herrera and Eddie Reese, who are very accomplished wrestlers.

And I go, let's go check it out, I'm not lifting, let's go see if this stuff is for real. So we go into the jiu-jitsu thing. It was a little bit of a drive.

We get in there and I say, Hey, we want to roll around with you and see, check this stuff out. And they're Portuguese demonstration, demonstration, and I'm like, Oh, what the fuck is this?

Anyways, so one of the guys goes in the back, I guess. They put cameras up in these little mirrored boxes, the one-way mirror things. And so Eddie gets up there. And he's a little guy and so it didn't take him very long to tap him out with, like an arm thing. And then Paul, who's an All-American from Nebraska, wrestler, bigger guy, 190-ish.

He gets in there and I'm like, Oh, what the hell's going on? Because they're lasting and lasting. And he's on his back. And at that time, I was like, What are you on your back for? He's stupid. They're totally ignorant of what was going on.

And I'm like, Holy fuck, he ended up tapping him out and I'm like, Wow, he made short work of Eddie and he tapped out. Paul. And I had respect for Paul for his wrestling abilities and where he'd gone and trained and wrestled for. And I was like, Holy smokes. Well, I'm rather large and very powerful.

And how long it goes is not. And so I go okay, and they were starting on their knees and all that kind of stuff and I'm like, whatever, so I get on him. And I had a medical place, the cut and sew place, I had a scrub on.

So I'm on top of him and he grabs like a nurse's scrub, because they don't rip or anything like that. And he does like an x on his thing. And he starts choking me and I look at him and I just kind of roll my eyes. Like, really, like, I went like that, like fists on both sides of his face, you know?

And he's like, Oh, okay. And so we rolled around, rolled around, rolled around, and then he finally got to an arm lock. And like I said, I was doing curls with like 120-pound dumbbells and stuff like that, and so I picked him up.

Basically, he was like a foot off of the mat and I raised my right hand up and made a fist. Like, you want me to fall down on you? His eyes got huge as the moon. No, no, no, no, no, no, and I'm like, okay.

So I let him down and let it go, and he was like, Oh, like, I've had enough of this big guy here.

And so we left. And whatever goes on in somebody's head, like, Oh, who's that guy? Almost in a narcissistic way. Oh, I got him in an arm lock, I would have used him for a. It doesn't matter.

Yeah, there would have been a whole bunch of bad for him.

And so along goes, comes up afterwards, Oh, this is all the way full circle back to John, so along goes, comes up after Paul gets elbowed. My big John didn't stop it, who knows?

I know, but anyways. So he starts mouthing off, he must have had too much alcohol or something. And I'm like, who do you think you're talking to? And you know, like, really?

You were going to go there, okay? So he had, like him and all his friends were behind him, so I popped him and was going after him. And me and Eddie were fighting the whole contingency of Brazilian fighters in the audience.

And then we go to the back and old school Warrior. And no one sends you to the hospital and I'm telling Paul, Hey, fuck that you're not going to the hospital, you don't do that.

And he's like, huh? And there was a doctor, Istrago and John McCartney and his wife, Elaine, who is Karen? I think her name should be Karen Elaine McCartney. Anyways. They come.

She comes running up and starts pointing her finger in my face and saying, Get the hell out of here or I'll kill you. You know, just hyperbole in the moment, charged type thing. They try to make a huge move out of that and then.

And I was like, Where's Tank at? There's the show and Bob's like, we got fixes. And so somehow a letter came up of apology to their leverage of they were going to quit. I'm like, who cares if they quit?

He's a referee, he pulls the trigger on a gun and then he affects fights by breaking people up and giving people chances and everything else. He's a corrupt person and who cares? But I guess Bob was leaning into the fact, like, Oh, he's developed a personality for himself.

Anyways, we're going to have this letter made.

And we'll send it to the McCartneys and then they can be sued, and then I'll be allowed to come back.

And that was all around the same time, with the Ferozo fight, with my knee messed up and Bob being the slickster that he is.

Explain This is great, this is not so great. This is what we think we could do with you. Back then, it was chaos.

Him fighting is the people's comment, it's not his friend.

Mark Hall, that guy went out and did the job for Frye.

Regardless of how easy my fight before is, mentally it's a whole different ball of wax.

Because he lands one punch, knocks the guy out, like, Oh my God, I already won, I won a fight. I know I'm performing well, I didn't get hurt at all.

And now I'm loose, my brain's loose. And then you could go through three rounds of hell with some fucking psychopath where you're barely surviving both of you and you get to the final round or whatever.

It was back then, it was one round, but you get to the final end of it and you're like, Oh, Jesus, I've got to do this one more time with a guy who's fresh.

Anthony Macias that winks at him right before the fight.

And I fought the two biggest guys ever fought in the UFC a 400-pound guy and a 6'5. Whatever, 300 or 280, whatever size you want to make real fights.

Going, okay?

You could only get it off DirectV back then.

It was a real big deal. They would disparage it. There's a funny video of Bob Arum talking about it. They're rolling around on the ground like homosexuals.

It's a fighting game, whereas MMA is a fight. boxing can be a fight too, but the rules are so specific, so limited.

He didn't have time for me, so I was like, Okay, and I'm slowly learning boxing, and his underling was in charge of me.

And I go, When are we going to fight? and he's like, No, you don't just fight, you've got to learn how to box. I'm like, No, not me, I'm going to fight.

He goes well, there's a show in six weeks in here and I go perfect. I'll do that. Then you can't just do that, and I'm like, No, I can do that. And so this is also on video.

I fought some guy that had been boxing for like three years, and I knocked the stuffing out of him. His mouthpiece went flying out of his mouth. At that time, the guy that ran the gym was named Noy Cruz, and he was the trainer for Carlos Palomino. Old-school Mexican six-foot-two guy but knew his boxing skills. Like, No, tomorrow. And he went up to Mac and he said, Hey, that guy's got something you can't train.

He goes, You guys can be in here forever, but I want to train that guy and Mac's all. I don't have time for him. I'm with Tyrell, he goes, we'll split him, you know, whatever. So from that point on, after that first fight, I started rolling with Noy, not rolling but boxing with him.

And he's the one that got me to sit down on my punches and all Mexican-style hard punches inside to the body, uppercuts, all that kind of stuff. And he used to swing those big old leather bags that were hanging from chains. It was like an old warehouse, it had been there probably since the early 60s. He'd swing the bag and he'd come back and I would just turn through and the whole gym would shake and his eyes would get all big and go.

Noy was a great guy.

And, in fact, on my trilogy.

Street warrior is what he used to call me, Oh, the street warrior. And he'd go, Oh, what do you do now? and I'd go, Noy, if only, if only. You don't understand.

If they only had a fighting show with real fighting, not just boxing stuff. And he would just look at me and shake his big smile and just shake his head like, you're crazy.

And it happened, it was awesome.

And supplied my habit.

So I was looking through the Playboys and I saw an advertisement for Ultimate Fighting. I don't know what it was. One with the tooth fell out.

And so I invited my dad over and I said, Hey man, you've got to check this ultimate fighting. I don't know if it's real or not, I suspect it's not. I think it's probably just an offshoot of professional wrestling, he said. Okay, I'll come over.

So he came over and we're sitting there drinking beers, watching the tube. And he came out with that grass skirt type thing. And I'm like, Oh, see, and then I don't know who it was, Gerard Perdot or whatever.

And that's when my friend, who worked for his dad at the medical clothing company, goes, Hey, you know that guy Chemo that works at the bar? And I'm like, Eh? He goes, you got to know him, he wears like that Jean thing, and I'm like, Yeah.

And he goes, Do you know Joe son? I knew Joe son from the boxing gym, he goes. They fought in that show and I'm like, Well, yeah, I go, why is that guy fighting in that show?

I had quite the reputation back in those days. He would come, find me in the line and go Mr. Abitzer this way and cut me in front of everybody and walk me in.

And he goes, This guy chemo, if that guy's in it, why can't you be in it? That's when I was saying, make it happen. And he started calling Art Davey on the phone, and art's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he goes, No, you don't understand.

This guy is the real deal from the streets, man. Everybody knows who he is. And he's like, Yeah, yeah, we hear this story all the time, and he's all not from this guy. And then it was back in the day when he had, like a table like this with the phone and a speakerphone on it.

And so he goes tell that guy because I was sitting in the back, he goes tell him. I got some guy that's like six foot, eight, 300 pounds that wants to fight him.

And we'll see you next week. At this time, it was raining, so we ended up going to Art Davey's office in Torrance, right around the corner. I heard from the Gracie Academy, I guess they call it.

And so it was raining, and I had, like, a. It was back in the days when they had brown paper bags for grocery bags. So I put my high top basketball shoes in there and like stretchy clothes that you would wear, I had it all folded up. I walked in, sitting here, like, we are now talking.

And he's like, Okay, and this is before they came up with the tank idea. I said, I don't know, I'm a wrestler.

And so he goes, Okay, well, what are we getting back to you? and he goes, Oh, by the way, what's in that bag? And I said, Well, you said you had somebody who was like six, eight, 300 pounds that we wanted to fight. And he goes, what? I go, yeah, on the phone.

You said that and he goes, you'd fight somebody, and I go, Yeah, I don't go to jail, and he goes.

You're crazy, what? you're just crazy, man. And I'm like, No, I'm down for fighting any time you want to do it. And he's like, Oh, I just shook his head.

And we walked out.

And like I said.

See, did we go over the point of going where I got kicked out before even I got in?

This is why I told the central casting mafia wannabe guy that they kicked me out, this is why they kicked me out. So they gave me a one sentence paper that says, David Abbott's going to be in the next show, whatever. And I didn't realize that it had to be six because the Gracies owned, according to my calculations, the first five shows before Bob took over.

I need, I need like, tomorrow, you know, right? And I was like, whatever, so I go OK, work with it well, you can train.

And so.

A wrestler that was, you know, wrestling, everybody knows the world and college wrestling. And this guy worked for a volleyball company clothing company called Club Sportswear.

And they used to sponsor volleyball players and so Eddie knew him, I think they used to live together. Somebody lived with him that knew him. And he called up and said, Hey, Dave's going to be in that UFC show.

And so he goes OK, and he goes well, you guys want to sponsor him, and I don't know anything about anything, sponsor with that, whatever, and he goes, let me ask my boss.

And he goes, Yeah, sure, you know, there's new is. Yeah, we'll give him some clothes to wear and all that kind of stuff, and he goes well. He won an airplane ticket to go back and watch the show. I think it was UFC Five in Charlotte.

And so he sends me a ticket and I'm like, Wow, this is, you know, I'm a kid in my head. I was a kid, but not chronologically. I was a forever college student, and so I'm flying there.

And I'm like, Oh man, this is so cool, these people to do this for me. And they gave me like bags full of clothes. I was like, Wow, even socks and everything like that. It was like, crazy, you know, that's where I was in that time in life.

And so we get there and I had a big club bag. And they go, Yeah, just try to get on TV, man, just so we can see our stuff. Well, I get to Charlotte and I walk in and it was like the lobby of a hotel.

It was like a two-story hotel, but it was a nicer, like a suite kind of hotel. It wasn't dumpy and everybody in the lobby had their desk out. And at that time, it was martial arts and it was kung fu, Frank over there and whomever.

Jiu-jitsu Jeff over there. And they're walking around like they're Steven Seagal, with their chip on their shoulder and their chest out. And I'm thinking, I'm like, What the heck is this man? Are you kidding me? It looked like a swap meet for martial art wannabes.

I don't know, and all these people are walking around like this is. Before UFC. Even people knew they're like, Wow, I can remember some guys. I was just like, Are you kidding me?

This is like, insane. These people are like just playing the role. And so I just walked on by and I was like, Wow, I got a room and I went to the room.

And I'm like, Wow, my first time really being somewhere by myself, and I'm fine with being by myself. But I'm like, What the hell am I going to do?

So there was a UFC office in the hotel. So that's my first run in with Karen McCartney. And I walked in there and she's like, Who are you, what do you want?

And I'm like, Wow? And I was like, Hi, whatever? And Dave, the guy that set it up from the clothing company or the medical company, said, Oh, you're going to be all set, you're going to backstage passes. And I go good because I want to know what I want to do. And the lay of the land.

So she's like, Oh yeah, whatever. and I'm like, OK, whatever, she's having a bad day or something. And so I go, Hmm, what do I do? So I walk down the lobby.

And I say, Hey, man, is there a bar around here? And he goes, Oh yeah, right across the street, over there, just down in there in the highway there. And I go perfect. So I walk over there and everybody's partying.

And I sit at the bar.

And everybody's like, Oh, what are you here for? Like, Oh, you know, that UFC thing they're having at the Coliseum or something like that? Oh yeah, that fighting thing. Are you a fighter? And I'm like, going on, I'm not technically really a fighter.

I go well, I'm not fighting in this show. But I got a piece of paper saying, you know, a contract saying that I'm going to be in the next one.

So I can, you know, you partied with me? I like to have a good time, so it doesn't take long before the whole bar is rocking and rolling around me and we're having fun.

Everybody's like, woo-hoo, man, tank, and I'm like, cringing, you know? like, Oh, tank, and they're like, Yeah, and I'm like, Oh, yeah, woo-hoo. And so we partied it up and had a good time.

And so end up going back with these guys to this like a suite hotel. So there was like a room, like a living room, and then you had your bedroom type thing. And we're partying it up. And it doesn't take long before security comes and knocks on doors.

And they say, Hey, people are complaining about you guys and God. I'm probably swinging off the couch doing all sorts of crazy stuff and I'm like, Okay, well, it turns out Meyerowitz is right across the hallway and I think he called, so that wasn't a good thing.

And I'm like, Okay, we'll keep it down. I didn't even know who that Bob was. Art Davey was the guy, and so he was purporting himself out. So I'm like, Oh, whatever.

And so toned it down. So go back the next day and it all starts up all over again. And I'm like, Yeah, let's go, and they're going, Hell yeah, we're going.

We're going to the fight and I go, Yeah, let's go, so we end up, I go. I got these backstage passes and stuff, so I don't know if I can sit with you guys, so they got tickets.

And they were in this little cubicle block of seats, just up on the first rail, and they're sitting there. And I go, okay, and I go, Hey, there's that art guy, I go, Hey, art.

And he's running around like he's Don King in a tuxedo, and I'm like, Hey, art, art, art, hey, you got my passes and stuff like that. And he's looking at me. He's giving me like the cold shoulder, like not even knowing he sees me. But like, Oh shit, I don't want to talk to that guy.

And I'm like, why is he being evasive? And finally, I called him over and I started putting two and two together. Like you said, I'm kind of a cynical conspiracy theorist. He would walk around the hotel like he was King Kong, like, I'm the man type thing.

And right when I went in to get tickets and lane and them are all in there. He's giving these two young girls these laminates and gave me the quick eye, like, what the hell is he looking at? like, Oh, you know, sketchy look.

And when I got to the show, they just gave me paper tickets. And those two girls are running around with the laminates in the office, so I went two and two together. He gave him my laminates trying to get over with the girls and just gave me some tickets.

So now just add a little alcohol, a little conspiracy thoughts going on in my head. And I go on that little worm. I go, Oh, I know what's going on, and so I go, I go.

Anyways, so I'm like, Hey, art, art, art. He finally walked over. I go, what the fuck dude, I go, you give me these paper tickets. I can't see anything.

I just want to walk around and in the back of my mind, I wanted to get their clothes on camera. I was going to do like, a cameo walk by. You know, I was a kid anyways. Art, art, ignorant or whatever, unwise.

And so I'm walking and he's like, Oh, you give me the shrug, and he walks off in his little tuxedo and I'm, I'm steaming. And so that goes down and the first fights go down. And one of the girls, there's like a group of maybe ten people.

He goes, Hey tank, you know, in the southern thing, she goes, I don't know. You know, I was expecting something else. This is kind of boring, to be honest with you, and I'm like, like, I was part of the show, you know?

And I'm like, going, Yeah, I understand, I think I think Gracie or Oleg or somebody fought and they were doing submission and it was boring. And so I go, let me tell you something, I promise you, I promise you. It's not going to be anything like this, it's not going to be laying on the ground, rolling around when I fight.

I promise you that you have to believe me. And she goes well, I hope so because this, you know, I can't get into my accent, she goes. I hope so because this is boring. And I'm like, No, it's not going to be anything like that when I get in there, trust me.

And so that was the tone that was set. And more beers. I was drinking beer at that time, maybe I was drinking some vodka then, but so we get back after the show at the bar.

And I remembered everybody's like, sitting around, talking about it, you know? And I went, Hey, you know what? I forgot? There's a cocktail party going on, I go, what?

I go, yeah, there's a cocktail party going on. My guy told me about it. Like, I had back passes and the whole nine yards, I go, but there's a cocktail party with everybody there.

Anyways, so I go, let's go and they go, Well, we're not. How are we going to get in? I go, you're fucking with me, man, we can get in.

Don't worry.

So I went over there, I had an entourage by that time. Believe it or not, I didn't even fight and we walked in. And, you know, they had typical banquet type stuff with the silverware and the roast beef and rolls and cocktails.

So I was drinking and drinking, and drinking. And it didn't take long before I started telling them that they were a bunch of pussies and that they didn't know how to fight. I don't know what the hell's going on, wait till I get in there.

And Jim Brown, the football player, was an announcer then.

And I think he came up in a fatherly way, like, Hey, hey, calm down.

Tell me what to calm down, I'll tell you what to calm down. I didn't have any respect at that time and so things went on like that. I ended up taking Jim Brown's What do you call those things like a derby?

And he looked at me angrily.

And I was joking around, having fun, that's all, and that might just be the cherry on top, but the whole behavior was that the whole night. And we left because it was closing down and I had my fill of food and we went back to my room and restarted the party up again.

And then I left and came back and they never called us back or anything. And I was like, going, Hey man, what the hell's going on? And he's all. What did you do there? And I'm like, This is me, and I go, Oh no.

And he was shaking his head, and then that's when Art called him and said, Hey, that guy is a maniac.

He's not only allowed to fight in the show, he's not allowed to be at the show. No, effing way, that guy, he's crazy. And I remember my friend hanging the phone up and looking at me and slowly just shaking his head, like, you blew it, dude.

Boom.

And it's not a nice, it's a bar that normal people don't go to, and so and we're in there and there's. I told Paul and Eddie that I didn't want to go there, I just go, I don't, I don't want to. It's trouble. And I was a well-oiled and primed machine for beating ass. And I'm like, and I had anger issues from being kicked out of my dream.

And so they talked me into it and I go, Okay, listen, if anybody bothers me, you guys have to take care of business and no problem. And we were supposed to be in a wrestling room, training and fighting, but the wind got knocked out of our sails. My sail, but they were in there for me.

And so we're in there and it's a seedy place and seedy things happen. This girl starts in with Paul.

Paul disables her and she falls on the ground.

I'm like, what the fuck happened, you know? It was like, sounded like the jukebox machine got broke, you know, the glass on it. What the hell happened, man? And I let go of Paul from pulling him back. And I turn around and there's a guy with a broken pool cue standing there.

And obviously I put two and two together, put two and two together. And his eyes were like, Oh, that didn't go the way I planned. Because he's still standing here and I don't know because I was knocked silly, but I heard that he got hurt really bad. And that's why the bartender or bar owner wanted to extort money from me from having a tape of me beating up those guys.

He's like, Yeah, that guy came into my bar and almost killed somebody, and I have it on videotape.

You think that you just get up someday and go, I'm going to go run a marathon.

You were obviously, you know, even though you're a big guy, your cardio wasn't that bad, you were definitely doing something.

Any man on earth, that day, I was in my prime that day. The only reason why I lost is because of big John McCartney and his breaking up the fight. he should have never broke that fight up.

Even if it's boring, the whole idea is like, what's real?

That was the first fight they had with judges. John McCartney got in there and broke that fight up twice so boss could get back up and come back and fight him.

Listen to Ken Shamrock, he said. It's fake. Well, at worst, there were some real fights, at best, it was predetermined, as Ken said.

You know?

He goes, Will you do it in my backyard? I go, Hell yeah, I'll do it in my backyard. And so we went there and I don't know what version he saw, he put some edited version out of it.

But he ended up going to the hospital again. I sent him to the hospital the first time and he went again the second time because of his big mouth.

That's what I'm saying.

Two times a week.

When someone can get to a conversation with you and you want to really start talking about things, you're a very bright guy. Yes, but you liked it.

I used to set up textbook narcissists that come in and display their narcissism around people like, you ever meet somebody that you're like, Oh no, those two can't be around each other. Mm-hmm. Well, I was the kind of guy and I've never more of an empath than people know. But I would. My ears would perk up and my eyes would open up when I saw a narcissist that would try to belittle, put people down. Oh, okay.

And I would kind of like, my brother's five years older than me, and I kind of maybe, you know, he's very athletic. I come from, like a football dad's a football coach, that kind of thing. And so maybe deep-rooted. I was resentful of him being older and able to push me around. Or what have you? mm-hmm?

And so when I see these narcissists and I'd be like, why would that guy be doing that for what? Like, what are you getting yourself over? And so I would put myself in their vicinity. And sooner or later, if you look at me, like, even today, when I walk down the street, people give me the eye, like, Yeah, you want some? do they really? Oh, hell yeah.