Don’t Be Another Statistic in the Debt Disaster

He's our PhD around here, helps folks with counseling issues, and it's going to work right into everything we do here today, for sure. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. Clay is in Amarillo, Texas. Hi, Clay, how are you?

I had a question on, I follow you guys on social media and stuff like that, Leslie, on the radio, but you talk about not having debt, and I'm wondering how you run an operation without an operating note.

Because, even though cattle prices are through the roof right now, there's other things that are expensive as well.

The way we did that with a $300 million revenue, we started it on a card table in my living room with absolutely no money, just me, me, myself, and I. That was the whole freaking board of directors.

And I started with the promise that I would never borrow money because I'd gone broke borrowing money, and because I read the Bible and it said the borrower is slave to the lender, and I'm a simpleton, and I believed it, and I'm just not borrowing money. So the way I have gone from a card table to where I'm sitting today without borrowing money is, it sounds like a Saturday Night Live skit, but to start with, Clay, I just didn't borrow money. I mean, that's it, period. I'm not going to borrow money for anything. Now, what that means, then, is, how do I run a business?

How do I grow a business like I've grown this one without borrowed money? And that is, I grew it more slowly than some of my friends who are now out of business because the bank foreclosed on them during COVID. I grew it more slowly than some people thought I should, who thought they were smarter than me, who have less money than me. now. I grew it slowly, frustrated the crap out of me because I wanted to go faster, because what we do is help people, and gosh, by going slowly, we're not helping as many people as we could help, and that's really frustrating.

And I grew it slowly because it's all I had, because I can only use my profits to grow with. I can only use my profits to buy equipment with. I can only use my profits to add payroll and new team members with. It's my only option, and it forces me to be very selective. It forces me to say no to a lot of things, but then, when times are tough, I don't have a note, and I'm still here, and I'm still growing, and we're still the number one brand in the entire space in the nation.

There's no one even close to us with a social media footprint in the space that we're in, or the podcasting, or the YouTube footprints, or the revenue that we produce, and the amount of people interacting with EveryDollar. Nobody's even close. We freaking own the space. We are the 800-pound gorilla now, but that's the way we got there is. we were a starving little monkey that didn't borrow money, and so that's it.

It's not rocket surgery, but it's hard to do, because you're obviously a sharp dude. Who goes and buys a ranch at 21?? Well, it's not a wuss. You're obviously a stud, man. You're going for it.

Who's out there operating a business like you're already operating at 25 years old? Way to go, man, you know, and so you got ambition. You got things you want to do. You have an idea in the shower every morning that you can't do if you don't borrow money, and some of those ideas suck,

About half a million. And I know you're not supposed to ask this in the 806, but how big's your ranch?

It is 250.

. Okay, good for you. What are you running on it? Cattle.

. And nine-tenths of that is the place itself. Yeah, of course. Yeah. It's mortgage.

I do owe a little bit of money on some cows. I've got two payments left on those, but other than that, that's the only debt that I have. Well, you've pretty much avoided.

Oh,

They're out of business in a 10-year cycle because of the risk that goes with the borrowed money. You feel the pinch.

Every time you get ready to do something, you got to think,

Yeah, that's right. There's fires. It's drought. I mean,

anti-fragile moments when, let's say, it all goes, let's say there's a bad drought for three years, and you've just kept tortoise in the hair, and you just kept plugging along and plugging along, and your ranch got bigger by 10 acres, and you bought 15 over here, and you bought this.

Eventually, the drought wipes out your neighbors, and they have to sell you their ranch for pennies on the dollar. That's what, if you hang on and hang on and hang on. That's what happened here. Suddenly, oh, I just tripled my footprint for very little money, because I just went slow.

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The number one bestselling book is Building a Non-Anxious Life. That's his latest number one. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. The best way to make the most of your money is by telling it what to do instead of wondering where it went.

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Tyler is in Kansas City. Hi, Tyler. How are you?

. I'm confused how you getting a house gets her out of a toxic environment.

Let that smoke clear, and then it'll give you some time.

I mean, there's nothing physically going on, but it's just a really tough environment. It puts a lot of stress on her personally.

That's not emotionally abusive.

There's a difference between discomfort and a toxic environment. If she's working 120 hours a week and she says, I'm not willing to work 120 hours a week, or I'm not willing to work 80 hours a week, or I'm not willing, I'm willing to work this number of hours. Then they fire her. Then that's their option. But you can just start having like boundaries.

Like when somebody starts speaking to you inappropriately, you say, Hey, whoa, whoa. You know, you can't talk to me that way. You can fire me, but you can't talk to me that way. Absolutely. So.

your wife's ability to say no to her or to this environment is part of the problem. Her lack of boundaries. And, um, that's why, you know, and, and so if she cannot put up reasonable boundaries, to say, okay, I can only work a reasonable number of hours. I'm 120 pounds. I can't lift, um, you know, heavy boxes all day long, uh, 16 hours a day.

I can't do that. I can, I can work eight hours or I can work 10 hours and I like my job and I like the benefits and I like the money you give me and I can do that. And, and I'm not going to be yelled and screamed at or cussed at. And so you got to talk to somebody else. that way, if you're going to, um, and suddenly bullies, pull back then and don't bully as much.

That's. one option is deal with the situation, suck it up and push on through. Uh, or the other option is go rent something, but going, using this situation to justify doing something stupid and getting your family in a pinch and saying, oh, the only thing we could do to get away from this toxic, wicked witch of the West is to go buy a house we couldn't afford and go bankrupt. These are two negative options. And if you're, I'm choosing between two negative options.

No, let's go with C, none of the above.

I refuse to do work that you, that I told you I'm physically unable to do. I can't work 90 hours a week. Like Dave said, I can work 50, I can work 60 in limited runs. And the rest of the time I got to be with my family. If y'all can't be people of character and integrity, I'm going to walk out that door.

And when you walk out like that, not I'm, it's emotional abuse of it. No, they're just not telling the truth. They're lying to you. But you walk out with your shoulders thrown back. And that sets the tone for your home.

That sets the tone for the next job she applies to. It helps you see the world a little more clearly than walking through disconnected from yourself.

And that, that's a setting us, setting a solid boundary with people who don't like boundaries, you generally drives them nuts and they go, they usually lose their minds and they, they may fire you. I mean, so when people want that, don't appreciate that they're standing on your property, they're taking some of your hours, they're taking some of your emotional wellbeing. And then you say, you can't do that anymore. I'm going to set up a boundary. I'm not going to give you as many hours and I'm not going to give you my emotional wellbeing.

You can't stand on my, get off my lawn, you know, you know, and when you say that to somebody who's used to getting away with it, they generally go nuts. Right.

And it never did again. But it was me just saying, you can't swear at me in this meeting again, I'm going to get up and walk out of the room. And it was, I'm sorry, you're right. I'm sorry. So there was just standing up, but I also had to be prepared, man.

They could have said, well, you can take your bag and walk out that door. Right. They could do that too.

is what a boundary does. I'm putting up a shield here. You can't come inside the shield. I, you know, I'm extending my personal space. You, you got all up in my stuff here and I'm going to create a little room here and you're in my personal space.

And, and when you do that, it changes a lot of stuff for you. I'd recommend doing that as step one. Step two is, if you get fired or decide you can't take it and you quit, go rent something cheap and go someplace. If you got to move out of the city, go move out of the city and rent something cheap. I don't care.

But don't use it as an excuse to do something stupid.

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Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, Personality, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, PhD in counseling, and he's here to help. The office hours are open. The phone number is 888-825-5225..

So, John, this is interesting to me. I've been doing this show since 1992,.

so 32 years, and the first year we went on the air, there was a huge problem in America with credit card debt, and there's still a huge problem. I'm doing no good! I'm not making any progress! There's still a huge problem with credit card debt. Google Trends recently reported in the U.S.

how to lower credit card debt, in quotes, reached an all-time high. as a search item. For those that don't know, Google Trends is part of the Google Reports. what people are searching for. There it is.

Okay, so what this means is that more people than ever before, well, since Google, not ever, but since Google, are searching for how to lower credit card debt. That makes sense. In 2024, we now know that credit card debt has gone over a trillion, with a T, dollars. So how do you pay off your credit cards fast? What do you do?

Well, this is what we've been doing. As a matter of fact, if you Google Dave Ramsey, the first thing you're going to hear is how to get out of debt, right, John? I mean, it's like, they may not know. I know how to do anything else, but they know I know how to do that, right?

But you can't drive a car like that if you've got debt. And so, here's an interesting thing. Here's something for you to think about, folks. We live in the most marketed to society culture in the history of mankind. In the United States of America, you receive more marketing impressions across your eyes and ears in a given day, more money is spent, more brainpower and sophistication is spent to sell you things than any group of humans in the history of mankind ever at this moment.

So, marketing, selling things to you in ads, in Google pop-ups, or whatever it is you want to do, whatever ad, whatever version of advertising or marketing you want to think about, you get a diet out there of that that's greater than man has ever gotten. any time in history. No one has ever walked the earth that has been hammered like you've been hammered by marketing. That's a pretty bold and big statement, but it's also true. It's not hard to figure out that.

that's the truth.

And here's what's interesting. Among all of that, the most dollars that are spent to sell a single product line, more than any other product line, any other mindset, any other thing you want to sell, any other brand you want to sell out there, the most advertised and marketed product in dollars and in brainpower, by far in the most marketed to culture in the history of mankind, is debt.

More money is spent to sell you on getting in debt in the most marketed to culture in the history. This is not, this is a big deal. In other words, when you add up what MasterCard, American Express, Discover, and Visa spend in a year, it's more than all the professional sports make in a year.

It's more than Egypt takes in for their entire economy in a year.

Just to sell you those four pieces of plastic, and they are good at it. They, the things just magically show up in your mailbox, your inbox, your dead dog from four years ago will be issued its own line of credit, and it'll show up in a credit card on your mailbox. Froo-Froo, the dead poodle, will get a credit card in America today. I've got it. I've got a copy of Froo-Froo, the dead poodle's dog.

A guy sent it to me from New Orleans. He says, I actually, and a guy in North Carolina applied with a fraudulent social security number under the name Buck Naked and was issued a $20,000 line on a Visa card. Wow. Because they don't even look, they don't even check your credit on about, but about one out of 10 of the applications. And so they issue these pieces of plastic like water going down a drain, and you're walking around like I'm somebody because they, you're not somebody.

You don't even necessarily breathe for you to get a credit card. You don't even necessarily have to be a breathing human to get a credit card. I've just proven that to you. These are not made up stories. It's the most aggressively marketed product in America today.

And people are walking around going, I'm still, I have, I have a, I have a platinum titanium.

I, I thanked her for taking a chance on me. And she was like, you know, we just felt like, and I was like, Hey,

it's pretty awesome.

That's what's in my wallet money, because I don't have this crap in my wallet. I don't have to go to the chiropractor because there's 73 credit cards in my wallet. And I sit sideways every day with my back pocket, you know, and my, so my back's. out of alignment. I've actually found people that did that.

I don't have any credit cards for 40 years.

How do you, well, by the way, I just got back. I took a little tour from London to Iceland and I just got back there before yesterday. And you know what? I have a credit card. It was amazing.

You know what they took over there? Debit cards, just like credit cards. They had no difference. And did. the currency exchange, did the whole thing.

And I actually had a, you know, a big old wad of cash in my pocket. Cause. I always care because American dollars are taken almost everywhere. It's amazing. They find a way to take them.

You know, if, if you go, you know, you can go in the poorest country in the world and they'll go, yeah, I'll take that. But, um, very few times, you know, I found, I found a few people that snooted me and said, you need a Euro, sometimes in Europe. But most of the time you just walk around with a dollar. But I mean, everywhere. I was, they took plastic.

And so I obviously had no issue. And I just dropped my little debit card in there. I have four pieces of plastic in my wallet, a debit card on my business, a debit card on my personal account, my driver's license, and my handgun carry permit. That's all that's in my wallet, other than green president's faces. And lots of those of different kinds, by the way, I like to click different colors or different, different faces on there.

Yeah. So guys, don't fall for this crap. And don't tell me your debit card is not safe. It's got the exact same fraud protection, exact same fraud protection as your credit card. Go, look it up on visa.com.

It's called a zero liability policy. Look it up on mastercard.com. They both have the exact same phrasing on their websites, like they were owned by each other or something, but the debit cards got the exact same stuff.

Listen, shut up. You're not going to get rich borrowing money at 18%. That's just straight up stupid on a string. Okay. You've got to make a decision.

I'm not going to live like this. And these people, they're stupid, man. They just keep doing it. Look at this one. New Wells Fargo credit card program with a novel feature.

You can use it to pay your rent, but it may not be working out quite as well as the bank at hope. Wells Fargo is losing as much as $10 million a month on this new card. So you're telling me people that pay rent with their credit cards, a credit card that was designed to help them pay rent that they couldn't afford.

Oh, wait. So you're loaning money to broke people and you're bitching because they don't pay it. Shut up, Wells Fargo. You're getting what you deserve. You signed up for this trip.

Guys, boys and girls, you really, you got to decide. Are you going to be like everybody else? Everybody else is walking around collecting airline miles.

Millionaires, they stack cash. This is a Ramsey show.

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Obviously, we want to pass that on to our kids. But being that they are in the system, they are going to get money every month, $650 a month per child until they're 18.. And naturally, this is their money. I want to keep it for them. So my question is, what is the best way to go ahead and save this for them?

Should I open up a brokerage account in their name? Should it be an UTMA? I was looking into a 529, but that's actually not needed because they're exempt from paying tuition in Florida. So what are your thoughts? What should I do?

You're welcome to do whatever you would like to do. I would not do what you're doing. You're going to discover very quickly that it costs a whole lot more than $650 a month to raise a kid. And so I would dump the $650 a month into the budget and then just raise the kids. And as a part of raising the kids, I'm going to invest and become wealthy and leave them a big old pile of money and have some money for them when they come out of college and have some money for them.

But you're not morally, ethically, and certainly not legally bound to set this money aside for them. And it's not inherently unholy to just mix it into the family budget because you're spending more than that on them. By far, you're going to spend a lot more than that on them.

. I'm going to make sure. this is to help them get their first house. This is to help them get started after they get married and they're 25, right? And you dump some money in there occasionally and you try to...

Because you're going to be a multimillionaire if you're doing the stuff we're teaching. It sounds like you're very responsible. You're making a quarter of a million dollars a year. And so if you've got a couple of accounts laying around that got a couple hundred thousand bucks in them that are kind of earmarked for the kiddos and you're going to help them buy their first house or you're going to help them do whatever out of that, but there's no compulsion to keep it completely separate and clean, morally, ethically, legally, or anything. People do that with child support sometimes, or they do it with if a spouse passes away, you get social security money for the spouse that passed away to the kids.

They get big checks, or not big checks, but good checks, like you guys are getting. And so that kind of stuff. And in all those cases, we just say there's no need to mix child support. Just mix it in the budget. There's no need to take social security money and hold it aside.

Just mix it in the budget. And you get what you guys are doing. You're going to be such great moms and dads because your heart is so pure on this. You guys are amazing. Thank you for what you're doing.

And those kids are blessed to have you.

And last thing, with the kids, we're getting $10,000 for each kid, because I am a veteran as well. So I'm assuming with that, too, we're just going to our budget, and we'll be set up.

You've studied hard to get to be who you are. You know, teach them those things. Teach them live on less than you make. Teach them live on a budget with a plan. Teach them, you know, when you were three and we adopted you, we started thinking right then about you paying, about paying cash for your first house so that you never are in debt.

And that will set you guys up to be millionaires real quickly. And but that comes with some strings. It comes with you being a good human, because I'm not going to give you this money if you're doing heroin.

Yeah. You know, and so this is just. you weave this whole narrative of handling money wisely as a part of your parenting structure. And John, that does change everything, doesn't it?

experiences, unable to have kids, and they grieved it. And then they said, OK, what's the next thing for us to do as a family? And they're going to adopt two little brothers.

And it's beautiful now. And I know it's going to be hard. It's going to be a hard road to hoe. And it's pretty amazing thing that they're doing. But I think you're right.

I think parents get so caught up in stuff. I want to be able to give them this thing and give them this thing. And, man, the greatest gift you can give your kids is a living example of values in the real world, right? Like, like, let him see you tip well. Let him see you honor that waitress, who's the only person running all these tables.

And the food wasn't that great. Like, let the kids see you be who you are. And man, that's money's awesome. Money's nice. But let's transfer values.

Let's transfer values.

But somehow I got backwards. And my emergency fund that I feel, is in a brokerage account and a smart investor fund. So my question to you is, should I leave that there and rebuild the emergency fund in a money market account? I think I could fund it probably in three to four months, for sure.

And I put it in a stupid money market account. It wasn't making anything. And then I could start investing the first time. I did that because it's the only $10,000 I've ever had in my life, or since I've been broke anyway, since I went broke is the only time I had $10,000 and I'd worked so hard to get that $10,000. And now I got to not invest it.

For a math nerd, that just broke my heart. Right. And I had to figure out that the emergency fund, the purpose of it, of that $10,000 in that example is not an investment. The emergency fund, I always make when I'm doing a lot of events, I make the crowd say not an investment. 4,000 people say not an investment, right?

It's insurance. Everybody say insurance. Insurance, right? And what does insurance do? It costs you money to protect the things that make you money.

That's what insurance does. And that's what your emergency fund does. It sucks if you look at it as an investment. It's not an investment, though. It's insurance.

So the money that you're not making, what we call opportunity costs, because it's in a high yield savings instead of in a brokerage account, the money you're not making is your cost of that insurance policy.

And just anytime you look at it and want to puke a little, just say not an investment. It's not an investment. It's insurance. And when I buy homeowner's insurance, I don't say, oh, that was fun. I always go, it's something I got to do because it's smart to protect that asset.

But it costs me money to protect that asset. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions. It's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual, amazing relationships. Thanks for hanging out with us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225..

Number one, bestselling, author of the book, building a non-anxious life. PhD in counseling and host of the Dr. John Deloney show. Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225..

Jump in and we'll talk to you about your life and your money. Hillary is with us. Hillary is in Salt Lake city. Hi, Hillary. How are you?

talking about this whole thing of the power of social media, and the power of, it used to be that we would say, don't keep up with the Joneses. Have you ever heard that old saying?

You're only looking because nobody posts on there. How my husband just got me a 1992 Honda hashtag blessed. You know, nobody does that. Right.

One of them's in the mud. The other one's pulling the other one's hair. We wouldn't have had a picture like that a million years. Can you imagine taking Rachel Cruz at four years old to the park and expecting her to behave? Not a chance.

I don't know how these people get those. Are those mannequins? How do they get them to sit like that? Take that picture. Well, that's what you're comparing to.

But anyway, yeah. I mean, even Atlantis is getting really old. I'm just saying.

And 99% chance. that's not real money that bought that. And so if you just called into the show and said, I'm a 33 year old single female, I make 60 grand. I only have 120 grand left on a house I bought myself.

it broke my heart to drive a hooptie after that. And I drove this horrible old vehicle. and, but I, by then had become so disgusted with me and how I was behaving with the Pete, like the people you're talking about, I was buying stuff that for other people look at. And I got all that completely fried out of my soul when I went broke. And I don't buy anything now for anybody except for Sharon and me.

I don't even care if my kids like it. As a matter of fact, I kind of like it. if they don't like it. So I just buy, I buy stuff a hundred percent. I drove a really nice car today because I really like that car.

I don't even care if anybody sees it. I like the car and I had a good time driving it here. And that's the only reason I buy it. So, but I used to have to pull up in those hoopties. I drove a car that was loaned to me.

That was a 90% Bondo and it, the vinyl roof, was torn loose across the front. So when you drove it, it filled up with air. It looked like a parachute on top. And so I would pull up at a stoplight after having driven, driven a Jaguar and the top would settle.

I finally realized that today, if you did that, if you pulled up next to somebody at a stoplight? today, the average car payment at that stoplight is $750..

See, I like what you said.

It's just going to, it's just going to not be that big a deal. You're right where you need to be.

Brentwood, Tennessee 37027.

We're celebrating the anniversary of the book. And it just came out with a new version of it, updated it. And for $20, you get The Total Money Makeover and three months of every dollar premium for free. So, for less than a movie ticket or a few drinks at Starbucks, you can invest in changing your life. Go to RamseySolutions.com.

Get the new anniversary edition of The Total Money Makeover. It includes three months of the premium version of every dollar. Also, one of my best friends in the world is a guy named Dr. Henry Cloud that wrote a book called Boundaries. And he's a good friend of John's as well, a well-known psychologist.

Boundaries is what made Henry a household name for some of you. He's also written plenty of other books, Necessary Endings, Integrity, or two that come to mind. And always about relationships and business. And he's a psychologist. And so he's always writing in those veins.

And he did something a little risky for him. And he sent me the manuscript. And I read it about six months ago when he was in the middle of it. And I had tears running down my face. I read everything that Henry writes.

Number one, he's a world-class thinker and author. But number two, he's a good friend. And this is a book completely different than anything he's ever done. It's called Why I Believe. A Psychologist's Thoughts on Suffering, Miracles, Science, and Faith.

So it's my good friend Henry explaining why he believes in God. Because he runs in an intellectual world, a bunch of nerds. And he said, I've always wanted to tell my friends these things. But I sometimes lose the courage to do it in person. And I can't find the right venue.

And it's uncomfortable. And they always wonder these things about me because they know I'm a person of faith. But they didn't know why. And they couldn't juxtaposition that with their science knowledge.

But this is completely, it's a departure for him. And I highly recommend it. Why I Believe. It's very well done. If you ever wondered, well, there it is.

You ever wondered why bad things happen? How can God exist if bad things happen? Oh, yeah, that's classic doctrinal juxtaposition there, right? So how is it that we could have little children suffering and there be an all-loving God? How is that possible?

How can you figure that out and work that through from a philosopher's viewpoint or theologian's viewpoint? Yeah, it's very interesting. So Henry, as a psychologist, tackles all this. Why I Believe is a brand new book. It comes out today, but I recommend it highly.

Christy is with us. No, I'm sorry.

But it's a credit card with interest rate of 26.

9,. I think. I got it when I was younger, but I've had it for like 10 years, and it's gotten this way, way up there. And now I'm starting to be like, ah, how do I get this down? The interest rate is so high.

Every month it goes up to $330, I think it's $330 interest alone. Minimum payment of $450..

So I'm just kind of really upset with myself. I have a lot of anxiety, and it's kind of just gotten out of control. I've tried thinking about doing the balance transfer, but then you were like, no, it's just, you know, I just don't know what to do.

so probably $60,000 a year.

And I don't have a lot of other things. It's just the credit card. My car is paid off. I do pay $1,600 in rent because of San Francisco.

But I really don't have anything else other than the stupid credit card.

But I'm kind of stuck here, at least for a year, because I am in a lease.

No. Does anybody want to be doing that? No. But you could drive from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m.

stuck in that car, making a chunk of money. And you could have this debt knocked out like in three or four months. And it'd be gone from your life. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Let's simply make a plan moving forward and act on that plan.

What you know is you're going to have fewer days to work next month. And you're going to be at home just sitting at home. Why not take one of those mobile jobs that came out of your area and just get after it? It will be uncomfortable. Yes.

Annoying. Yes. All those things. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And we're playing a 120-day game.

Four months down the road, we're going to not owe this debt anymore, because we worked really hard for four months. You see what I'm saying?

Go through it.

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, Personality, is my co-host today. Steve's with us in Boston. Hi, Steve. How are you?

So I'm finally, mentally, I think, in a place where I can go back to the finances and try to tackle what we had begun. Um, my question becomes, it's student loan based. Should I withdraw funds from my TSP to pay off my student loans and just move forward with everything from that point, starting fresh, or maintain my TSP and just make larger payments into student loans?

And he still has some medical issues. Um, so.

. And then, uh, I collect VA disability on top of that. And that's about 30 a year. Okay.

And, um, you, I think you said you have two children. Is that right?

Um, you're amazing. I'm so proud of you for just, just getting up every morning. Wow.

Um, well, in the middle of all this, uh, uh, strain, raising two little ones, one of them, a preemie, and going through the tragedy that you've been through. Um, uh, I think you've done really well. to just be where you are. Uh, because a lot of people, the, they could, or you could have really done some really dumb things in the last two years and had good reason to have not had your brain working. Well, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. So I think you've done a really, really good job of holding this together. Way to go. Um, the, um, the, the mathematical answer, and the correct answer is no. Don't take money out of your TSP to clear the 115..

Although what you're trying to say, what I'm hearing in this story, is enough pain already. I don't want any more pain. I've had enough pain. I've got pain. I don't need any more.

I don't want to sacrifice to pay off this student loan debt. Uh, I just want this crap to go away. Uh, but the problem is, when you pull the money out of the TSP, you're going to hit the 10% penalty plus your tax rate, which is 35%. So you're going to pay 45 cents on the dollar to pull this money out. 45% interest you're borrowing money at to get rid of your student loan.

No, don't do that.

Even though I completely understand them, the pain threshold that you're dealing with. Um, and so I, you know, what I'm going to do is tighten down the budget, and it's going to take you, you know, if you said 145,000 and we live on 110, then, um, it's going to take you three years to clean this up, right?

Well, uh, listen, have you been through a financial peace university ever?

Wow. You're, you're a stud, man. Hey, we're here for you. If you need us, you call us anytime. We love you.

And you hang on, Christian will pick up and we'll get you guys, get you signed up for financial peace. And we'll walk with you while you move into this next phase of life, the way you didn't think it was going to look. Ouch.

Yeah. My heart goes out for people.

It's because Sharon has a plan.

She walks eight miles every morning. There's no chance he's going to outlive me.

Oh, I can't, I can't, uh, I can joke about it, cause it keep me from crying. But the, um, I'm with you. I can't, I can't get my head around, that. And, um,

the, the, the, the sad thing is on this money stuff is that when tragedy happens and you can give tragedy a bunch of different names, but, uh, death of a loved one is certainly tragedy. Um, the math on this stuff doesn't stop.

It doesn't give you a day off because you're having a bad day. It doesn't give you, um, it doesn't take a day off because you're not working hard. It's the hardest working when you get working for you.

And you just need a friend to say, Hey, please don't do that. Please don't do that.

John Deloney Ramsey personality is my cohost today.

Her father and mother would like to get rid of that loan. They want us to take it on. We're in no way, shape or form, in a position to take on what has now turned into a $60,000 loan. We feel bad, want to help out, but don't know what to do. I hate parent plus loans.

I'm 18 years old. Mom and dad have it in their heart that they want to make me happy. So they co-sign for this loan, for this thing.

At the end of the day, mom and dad signed the loan. They signed the loan. They signed the loan.

Legally, just from a legal perspective, obviously Christian does not owe the money. His mom and dad owe the money. Period.

End of story. Okay. So if you just say, no, they got to pay it legally. Now, morally, did you promise them? When, uh, did she promise them her father and mother, um, did she promise them that she would take on the loan after she graduated?

And they just took the loan out on her behalf on a handshake? morally. If that's the case, then you have a different kind of a contract. Although it is a contract, it's not a legal contract, but it's a morally binding. She gave her word, in which case you guys have a loan.

Now you can't just take on the loan. You can take on the payments. You can pay off the loan. You're not in a position to do that, but you could pay extra payments and pay off the loan. You can treat it like it's your loan, but legally it never comes out of their name until it's paid off.

You can't just decide I'm going to move this to somebody else's name. They don't let you do that. Okay. There's not a consolidation that consolidates your loan into my name. There's no such thing.

So it's going to stay there in their name. If you pay payments and you pay extra payments to get it paid off until it is paid off. But I'm with John. I think the thing that is not in your question, not in your email here, Christian, is did your wife promise her mom and dad at the time they took out the loans, that she would take it on after graduation? If she did, then the two of you need to take it on.

And then they're going to dump it on the kids because I don't like it now. Yeah.

100% of the time, my boyfriend wanted a car, so I borrowed the money. 100% of the time, you end up being a caller on this show and entertain the rest of America with your foolishness.

Go be a welder. I don't care, but don't go in debt. Go spend $10,000 and go to code school and make $150,000 coding. Okay, but don't go in debt. This student loan stuff is absolutely stupid.

It's so out of control. People are putting off having children and buying homes because of student loans. We must forgive them. But we continue to make them. This is so intellectually dishonest.

On one side of these politicians mouth, they whine and cry about the poor little people who have gotten themselves destroyed by these student loans. And it is horrible. And now, the other side of their mouth, they keep making the stupid loans. Congress, hello. If you have screwed up the culture with these loans, stop making them.

Hello. What other time in history could an 18-year-old go down to the bank and convince a banker to loan them $145,000 to go play beer pong? What other time in history could this happen? Every time another in history, a banker would have looked at you and said, you're a dadgum fool, son.

It just doesn't make any sense.

I need to go to a school that's well known. So now I'm really going to go deeply in debt and get a degree in left-handed puppetry. So I can owe $260,000 and be a barista.

This is what this crap has created. And you and I, boys and girls, the taxpayers, are paying for that. Christian, I'm so sorry, you're in the middle of this mess. I'm sorry. You just got me riled up.

But I just hurt for you folks. It hurts. And it just, it angers you when you look at $1.7 trillion of this stupidity floating around. And Christian and his father-in-law are now at odds.

Think about that.

This story is not a pretty story. And bless his heart, he's writing on behalf of his wife. It's her parents.

Then you and your wife need to sit down and map out a plan. To pay this. And it's going to cost you your quote, unquote, following your passion. It's going to cost you your right now dream. Y'all got to go, get a whole bunch of jobs.

And you're going to have to probably get roommates. Y'all going to have to live a different kind of life than you thought. Because y'all set this stuff up years ago. And unfortunately, the world let y'all do this. Before the world, let you buy alcohol, they let you borrow $150,000..

Before the world, let you get tattoos.

And just scratch and claw and get it done. Your relationship with your in-laws and tension in your family tree is not worth it. It's just not. Yeah. It's not.

I'm really sorry. We can't take this on. We love you. But we can't take this on.

stop it.

Stop it. Look at your 18-year-old, you wuss, and say, No.

Parents who are wusses are causing this. Grow a backbone. Run down to Walmart. You can buy one on aisle three. Get you a backbone and look at your little 17-year-old and say, No.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Our phone number is 888-825-5225.. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, author of a couple of number one bestsellers.

The latest is Building a Non-Anxious Life. He's my co-host today. Open phones, 888-825-5225.. Josh is in Huntsville. Hey, Josh, how are you?

I mean, where do I go with all this?