You Can’t Hack Your Way Into Wealth!
2024-02-22 01:57:09
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money, with your relationships, and in your work. 888-825-5225 is the phone number, 888-825-5225.. I'm Ken Coleman, Dr. John Deloney joins me this hour, and we are here for you, so let's get to it.
Anne is going to start us off in Raleigh, North Carolina. Anne, how can we help?
Hi, so basically, I am a recent graduate from North Carolina A&T, and I have been struggling to find my passion in graphic design and that world, and I just really need help on trying to figure out my passion, and I also need help on trying to figure out my finances and find the right career to help me pay my student loans.
Okay, how much debt do you have?
I am in $25,000 worth of debt, that's including credit cards and student loans.
Okay, and what is your income right now as a graphic designer?
Well, probably like less than $1,000 a month.
Are you just freelance, part-time?
I'm a freelance graphic designer, and I also work as a part-time customer service representative.
Okay, and so when someone tells me I'm trying to find my passion, the way I define passion is just find something I really enjoy doing, right? There's some meaning in it, it's enjoyable, so we're on the same page with that.
Correct, yes.
So when someone tells me, well, I haven't found it in graphic design, that tells me that at some point you chose graphic design as a destination or a direction based on what you know about yourself, is that fair?
That is true, yes.
Okay, so let's forget graphic design, let's just take that out of the equation, let's not worry about titles, the type of work. I want you to just fill out for me, just kind of real quick, don't even overthink it, what would you do tomorrow if I paid you what you needed to make and you just were like, I'm going to try this tomorrow, I may try this for two weeks, I'm not committing the rest of my professional life to it, I just think, I'd like to try this, Ken, and just see if I'd like it. What pops to the top of your mind?
Becoming an illustrator and doing animation.
Well, that just flowed right off the top, huh? How much have we thought about that?
Well, I've always wanted to do that, like since I was a child, I knew I wanted to create cartoons and illustrations, but I feel like people don't want to see that and I don't feel like I can actually do that and make money.
Now we're on to something, Dr. John. We got a lot of imposter syndrome going on here. I doubt that anybody will like the illustrations that I will draw, fair?
Yes, that is true.
The giggle reveals every time. All right, so I want John to weigh in on this, because I think this is no question a mindset, this is a mental thing too, but I'm going to tell you that you're just dealing with good old fashioned doubt. What we now call imposter syndrome is such a goofy phrase. Number one, you're not an imposter, you're the real deal. If I talked to everybody that knows you, Ann, they would tell me that Ann was doodling and drawing her whole life, I'd have teachers tell me about your talent, I'd have coaches, I'd have parents, siblings, friends, everybody would say that Ann is not an imposter.
in wanting to do illustrations and animations. I can also tell you that you don't have a disease. You just are dealing with some good old fashioned doubt, and doubt to me is defined, as I don't believe that something good will happen if I move forward on this. You chose something that was close to animation and illustration, right?
Yes, correct.
So, let's just simplify this for a second, and I want to bring John in, he's always got great insight on what we're thinking and feeling, but I just want to be very practical for you. The step forward on this is very simple. You need to identify all the different types of jobs and work that are in that illustration animation field. I mean, to the top of the Disney animators, all the way down to what an entry level role would be doing this for this. You know that world better than I do, and in about an hour online, you could get a pretty exhaustive list of all the types of jobs in those fields.
True or false?
That is true. Disney is my number one company I want to work at, but that's true.
Great, I'll come back to that in just a second, but I've got to hurry. So I'm going to identify what's out there, and then I'm going to ask myself four questions. You got something to write with? Yes, I do. Okay, here we go.
The first question is, once I've seen all these different types of jobs that I know, allow me to illustrate or animate, do the thing that I love, that allow me to grow, now I've got to ask this question. What education do I need? May or may not be a degree. You just graduated anyway. Do you need further licensing, certification?
That's what I mean. Okay? So do I need to learn anything more? Okay. Now, I got to ask, what do I need to do?
What's the experience I need to eventually get to Disney? So I'm looking at entry level, I got to start here, then I climb here. That's what do I need to do? And I begin to see what a potential path would look like. The third question is, what is that going to cost me?
What's it going to cost me if I got to do some additional training? There's a cost to that. You're in debt, right? And then, fourth, how long is this going to take, based on the fact that I got $25,000 in debt based on the fact that I got basically a part-time job right now? And so I look at what's going to cost and how long will it take, and now I've got myself a plan.
Do you understand those four questions?
Yes.
What do I need to learn?
It's actually a non-perfect. Great.
What do I need to learn? What do I need to do? How much is it going to cost? How long is it going to take? And all of a sudden, it's not so intimidating, not this big giant mountain you have to climb.
You tracking with me?
That is true. It's perfect.
Okay. Now, John, I want you to jump in. What are you hearing?
I'll leave you with this, and you said this. There's a great researcher who researches imposter syndrome, and she says the definition of imposter syndrome is the fear that the world is judging you as harshly as you judge yourself. Wow. So today, that crap ends. Fair?
Yes. That is true. I need to stop it.
Yes. And here's how you stop it, though. That's good. You don't just walk around the house chanting it, because that makes you a weirdo, and you don't make some vision board and light candles under it. Here's what you do.
You draw every single day. Every day, at 5 a.m. to 6 a.m. before your job, you draw, or 6 a.m. to 7 p.m., or 9 p.m.
to 10 p.
m.
, but every single day of your life, you draw. And what's going to happen? in two years, three years, you're going to have an entire portfolio, and you're going to start finding this crazy thing called your voice. And then you've practiced, and then you got better, and you know what you're going to start doing? Loving it.
And then, ding, ding, you found this silly thing called passion, right?
Here's the last thing I'm going to tell you, and this is the least popular thing I'm going to leave you with. The worst thing an artist can do is owe somebody money. Because that means you have to hedge, you have to sand off the edge of who you are in order to please somebody else so you can get paid.
That is true.
So I think, in addition to what Ken told you, in addition to drawing every day, I want you to go get two or three or four jobs and pay this freaking $25,000 off. Not sexy, not towards a thing. Maybe you can find that, and that'd be amazing if you get one in an animation house in North Carolina or something. But I want you to just get this debt out of your life. Then you can afford to go be an intern when they offer it to you.
Then you can afford to get seven roommates in New York and go be an illustrator for a small-time print house shop, or whatever the thing is, the next step is. But get this debt out of your life so that you don't have to cash in your integrity for art.
So good. So true. You got this, Ann. Let's increase our income while we're planning for the future. Get this debt out of your life, and you are on your way.
No more doubt. I love it. Good stuff. Thanks for the call, Ann. This is The Ramsey Show.
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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. So excited that you are with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me.
We're here for you this hour taking your money. questions, relationship, mental health, work related questions, 888-825-5225.. That's 888-825-5225.. Fabulous studio audience today. You got a big crowd out there, John.
So always fun. We'd love for you to come watch the show in the lobby and come out and say hi, take some pics, and don't forget, thanks to Papa Dave, you get some coffee and baked goods. It's all free and subsidized.
I think this crew got on the internet and realized Dave wasn't going to be here and they were like, it's time for us to go then.
That's right. They're like, let's party with Ken and John. That's not what they said. Not even close.
No, they were like, oh man.
They're disappointed. We're going to try to do our best today. We won't be grumpy like Dave.
Lucky, Ken and I both have a lot of practice, disappointing people all the way back to our high school dating days.
Wow. That's rather generous. I think I said it much earlier. for me. You must have had a much better run at it.
Disappointing people for a long time.
We're used to it. Let's go to Toronto, Canada now, where Adam is there. Adam, how can we help?
Hey, how are you guys doing today?
We're doing great. What's going on?
I'm just looking for some advice. I'm a small business owner and I'm working on the side of owning my business as well as I'm in school right now for business. I'm just trying to figure out what the big next move is and if it's worth it for me to keep working on the side. Like I said, just kind of some advice.
Okay. When you say you're trying to figure out what the next move is, you got an idea?
Yeah, I do have an idea.
I'm planning on investing some money into my business and scaling it up a little bit. It's a contracting company, so we do construction renovations to people's homes and things like that. I'm looking to try and ... I'm thinking the right idea is to hire on a couple more guys and get a truck and trailer and have a couple of crews going. Okay.
The job I'm working separately right now is quite lucrative for being just like a part-time job that's on weekends and pretty early in the morning.
What are you doing, and how much are you making off of that?
It's a subcontracting gig, doing painting, and it's .
. The hours kind of vary. We start really early and we're done around noon hour, but it's about $100 an hour.
Okay. Is that your main income, or is the contracting business your main income?
That's my. ... It's more steady, for sure. My contracting generates more revenue when it does. You know what I mean?
It's kind of wearing the course type of deal.
What are you making as a painter on the weekends? What's your gross?
Like per year?
Yeah.
Last year, probably just doing it on the weekends, about $50,000.
Okay. How much money are you considering sinking into this contracting business?
Probably about $30,000, I'd say.
$30,000?
. Does that include? ... Is that payroll for new guys and or equipment, or does that include everything you were mentioning?
That'd be the equipment and a startup payroll for a month for a couple of guys, and then the truck and the trailer and everything.
You got $30,000 sitting in a bank account?
I got $20,000, $25,000 roughly, but with expenses going on with the business. Like I said, I'm in school right now, so life is a little more expensive than I'd like it to be. Yeah.
All right. You called John and I, and you're going, all right, I need some advice. Which way are you leaning? Because we've got a snapshot of the financial picture, and I think we've got a pretty good snapshot of your personal schedule. So I'm leaning one way, but I'm curious, what were you considering?
You're going, all right, John, Ken, tell me what you think.
I'm definitely leaning towards investing in myself and my future, like my business.
I want to work for myself in the future, for sure.
Yeah.
But I just, I'm kind of at a point now where I don't really know what is the smartest move to do next. Like if I should, rather than be getting tools and another truck and trailer and whatnot, should I be potentially looking into stock options?
No, no, no. What are you in school for? What are you learning?
I'm in for, it's a general business program at a college.
You're making $100 an hour at a trade, and you're running a crew, making an additional crew. What is this going to teach you?
I kind of wonder the same thing every day. I started my business while I was in school, so I didn't have this business before I went to school. It's kind of, I feel like it's the reason why I started the business.
Adam, listen, if you cut the school right now, I'm not telling you to do it, but if you did, how much time and money would you be saving? that would allow me to advance this goal of having the cash necessary to launch into my own business, or, excuse me, not launch, to grow the business? I mean, that's time and money. How much would that advance the goal?
A lot, because it definitely alters my schedule with how much I can be on the job.
How old are you?
Marketing, I'm 22.
All right.
I got one, two, three degrees after the age of 22.
. You're fine. If you're making $100 an hour and that part-time gig can help float the creation of a brand new business, and that's what you envision yourself doing 10 or 15 years down the road, and, by the way, you're learning skills and getting contacts, doing your side hustle, that's going to help you. You have a moment right now, bro. Why wouldn't you just take the moment?
If it doesn't work out, all right, fine. I'm going to go back to school. You see what I'm saying?
I totally do. This is, however, I'm in my last semester of schooling.
We'll lead with that next time, dude.
That would help us.
Why wouldn't you pause your business and work two or three more days a week, making $100 an hour?
I agree with that.
Save up your cash. Finish your degree. You're trying to do everything all at the same time.
I would paint more. Hey, John's right, Adam. Finish the degree. My goodness, now you've got one semester left. Finish it.
I would make more money painting. I would stack up more than just the $30,000 for that initial. I would stack up, if I were you, I would paint full-time, which you're not.
I don't have the availability to do that. It's kind of like-.
Fair.
Hold on. You can make $100 painting for this one contractor, but you can also put up signs and do painting on your own. That's right. You're developing a reputation. Yeah.
He would not pay you $100 if you weren't really good at it.
You can make more money. What we're saying is, within your schedule, you need to make more money. painting. Save up, I would say, a minimum of six months of operating cash for the construction contracting business. Six months.
Yeah. And then I would invest in it. But invest smart, man. I wouldn't buy a machine when I could rent the same machine.
Okay, yeah. Well, the equipment I'd be buying is just truck and trailer. I've already got a truck and a trailer right now.
But my point is, don't get a brand new truck and a brand new trailer.
Buy the oldest possible truck you can get that still runs. There you go.
Yeah. So you're on the same page with us. I just think you were calling and asking for permission, something you didn't need. I would finish the degree at this point, because it feels like we've got sunk costs. Let's go ahead and get it.
It doesn't hurt you. Yeah. But then be smart, man. Stack cash and grow slow. That's the goal.
Okay.
You got it?
The thing that burns young construction crews is debt. That's right. They go buy the biggest truck, a couple of big trailers, all new tools, hire the guys, and everything gets off to a blazing start. And then there's a dip in the market. There's a dip in the whatever.
Somebody cuts their prices, and all of a sudden, that debt payment still has to happen. And it gets messy. Or your workers don't show up. But you still got to be making those truck payments, right? That's right.
Just get you in trouble.
How many times have we heard Dave talk about the growth here at Ramsey that we would move at the speed of cash?
Yeah, that's right.
And I think that's one of the great phrases of all time. Because you get to make that relative to your environment. So some of you are out there going, okay, I don't have Adam's situation. I think what John is saying is applicable to you too. It's just move at a moderate, conservative pace so that you limit, mitigate your damage.
What do you tell somebody who, like, this guy, and you talk to so many people in this space. I'm interested because just from my own personal.
He wants to own a contracting business. I want to redo kitchens. Yet people keep hiring me to paint. And I got a gift of painting. I don't want to be a painter.
I want to be a this, right? I don't want to be the bass player. I want to be the lead guitarist. You're the best bass player around. And you always have work.
At what point do you say, I'm going to lean into this other thing? Because the universe seems to be telling me.
The answer is immediately and often. Lean into painting while I'm growing this over here.
So play bass guitar in every band, you can get. And keep sitting in your basement practicing.
Because contracting is hiring subs out anyway. Where the painting, he is the talent. Right. So I think your advice to him was great. And I love that.
Yeah, really good. All right. Hey, we've got to do a couple commercials. And we'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show.
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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is joining me alongside. And we are here for you.
888-825-5225.
. I don't know if you've heard us talk about it. But we're pretty excited. We've got this brand new event called Total Money Makeover Weekend. Obviously based on the wildly popular book by Dave Ramsey.
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I just saw the rundown, Doc.
And I'm very excited about this. Because I get to have a little fun. I'm not going to give it totally away. But I will be assisting, air quotes, Jade Warshaw in a special fun little thing. Where I just get to be just a goofball.
And I couldn't be more excited about it. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, I do.
And I just left a planning meeting earlier today.
Are you doing something a little fun?
Well, not near as fun as you guys. But it's a departure from the normal.
Yeah, I'm excited about it.
Standing up there and lecture. It's different. So I'm pretty excited about it.
I'm really excited about it to just be total doofus. And that's all I'm going to say. I don't want to give it away. But it's going to be fun. I mean, you never know.
I might eat a pita pocket on stage.
I know. I might.
I don't know. Because Jade and I do these.
I'm going to be sitting behind you, just juggling pomegranates. Just hanging out and having fun with her. Jade's all into food.
The grocery segment.
We'll leave it there.
That's all we're going to do. We don't know. We don't know what it's going to be. It's going to be awesome. By the way, that kind of goes together.
What's that? Come to the Total Money Makeover weekend. It's pita pockets and pomegranates. A lot of peas. I like that.
Good stuff. All right. Let's get to Brett.
He's joining us in Detroit, Michigan.
Brett, how can we help?
I was calling. Me and my wife got married last year. And we have about $250,000 in a high-yield savings account. that's separate from our emergency fund. And we were wondering what we should use that money for.
We have a house that we have a mortgage on. So we were wondering if we should put it toward the mortgage and pay that off early. If we should put more toward the savings. Just trying to get some insight on where we should use that money.
How much is left on the mortgage?
$280,000.
And you have no debt. Is that right?
No debt. We've never... We both started working right from out of high school and have zero debt, have paid for cars. And the mortgage is the only thing.
Well, you're familiar with our baby steps, I'm assuming. Since you made this call today. Right, Brett? Yeah. Brett, tell us what baby step six is.
Loud for everybody in the back.
Pay off your house.
What is this quarter of a million dollars that you have in liquid cash? What is it giving you?
5%, which is not even what my.
. Not that.
You even missed the question. Not that.
You would, Brett, you spreadsheet-er. What is it giving you? That's good.
A peace of mind kind of sitting there.
What's the peace of mind?
I don't know, honestly. Just that I have the money there, because I've kind of thought about changing my career path, which is kind of why I didn't want to get rid of it.
Okay, hey, let's stay right there. Let's stay right there. Okay. I'm going to ask questions and John will just pick away at you. How about that?
We're going to tag team this. You ready? Tag team?
Okay.
Here we go, WWE. Okay. What career would you pivot to?
That I'm not sure. Right now I own a landscaping company. And it's...
All right. Doesn't matter.
It's a busy life.
All right, so let's say we pivot, Brett pivots to career X, all right? Yep. What is risky in your mind? I want you to be realistic here for John. What's risky about that move?
What would you have to do to where you would need the $250,000, Brett, as smart as you are? What would you have to do?
Lose more than that in a bad investment? That's about the only thing.
But that's not happening. I'm not even talking about investments. I'm saying you go get qualified for said thing that we don't know, okay? Yeah. And you go after it.
What would have to happen for you to need this $250,000? Given your financial situation.
Pretty much nothing, honestly. I can't think of anything, honestly, that would need it. Especially if my wife... I guess if my wife stopped working. If something happened and she couldn't work.
She's not going to do that. Here's the big question I've got. Close. your eyes. Are they closed?
Can I do this as well?
You can do this. Okay. Your house is paid off and you don't owe anybody anything. And you start feeling a little bit nervous.
Would you borrow.
. Take a HELOC out on your house at 5% to put $250,000 in an account? Would that make you feel better?
No.
No. What would be awesome about changing jobs is having not a single payment on planet Earth. Nobody owes... You, don't owe anybody anything.
Okay.
Does that make sense? Yeah. Because the moment you walk out, you're going to have this $250,000 in an account, right? And there is some security in there. Don't get me wrong.
No question about it. Yeah. But the first thing you're going to have to do when you make this job leap to whatever it is, is figure out how you're going to pay your mortgage because you owe $280,000.. Imagine that's gone.
Okay.
And then the first thing you're going to decide is, where do I really want to work, because I don't have any bills.
Yeah.
Okay. By the way, Brett, the ideas come really freely when we have zero stress at all. And, as smart as you've been with your money, you've identified with John that you've got some stress over actually liquidating this money to pay your house off. That's what this is.
Yeah, I definitely do. I know. That is what it is.
And by the way, we get it, but we just heard this call 800 times. It's a different name, different location, and there's a psychology to letting go of this.
Yeah, it's a misaligned security. You think you're safer because you have this cash. Make no mistake. Having that much cash, there's not a lot that can hit you that you're not going to be able to take care of. And you signed a piece of paper that told somebody else, I'm going to end up giving you $280,000 plus interest for this thing that you let me have early, this house.
Yeah. And so that money is technically not even yours anymore. It's already somebody else's on a promissory note. You're just holding it, and you're making them rich.
Mm-hmm.
Right? Okay. So if I'm you, do you have an emergency fund already paid out? I mean, already saved up? Yeah.
Yeah, there's about $30,000 in a separate account for an emergency fund.
Okay. I'm not giving you any ratios. I'm not giving you any principles. I'm just telling you what John Delaney would do. in John Delaney's house.
I would take $20,000 of that, $225,000, and I would get an even Stephen $50,000 in an emergency fund. And I would take every other penny of it, and I would put it towards my house. And then I would look at my wife and say, let's do a wild sprint, and by August 1st, let's have no mortgage. Are you in? That's what I would do in my house.
Yeah.
Okay. And, Brett, I agree with you 100%. I was thinking, juice, that emergency fund where you get a little bit more stability. It's like that little blankie. You're like, okay, that's a pretty good emergency fund.
And then I would focus on the raise you guys are going to get when you pay that last house payment. Okay. I've already started doing that with one of my kids going to school, and I'm like, I just got a raise.
Exactly.
I just think it's what you focus on, and John's right. I thought that was a brilliant analysis.
What's your monthly mortgage payment?
Like $2,600.
. Dude!
How many lawns do you have to mow in Michigan to make $2,600?
? A lot. Yeah.
I got that as about a $32,000 raise with some quick math, and I didn't go to a good school, so you need to check my math.
Yeah.
It's about $32,000, isn't it? I mean, that's the focus. Brett, you have no house payment in short order and a $32,000 raise, which may set you up nicely to make this professional pivot. Whatever it is, and no stress. I love it.
Way to go, Brett.
I think that's awesome. Good for y'all.
I love it. Oh, my goodness, folks. That's the conversation about money and how we attach it to all of our fears and everything. Great stuff.
Doc, I'm going to send him a bill. I thought that that was really good. You should charge him a little extra for that.
I'm going to.
This is the Ramsey Show.
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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is in studio with me as well.
We're here for you. You got your money. questions, relationship questions. How about work? questions?
You want to get that bigger shovel? John and I are here for you this hour, 888-825-5225.. Alyssa is up next in Philadelphia. We just met some nice folks in Philadelphia in the lobby. It's Philadelphia today or day today.
Boy, that was a mouthful. Not sure. Alyssa, rescue me. How can we help?
Well, I'm a Star Trek fan. I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of cousins I haven't seen in forever. We listen to you guys all the time, so this is kind of trippy.
That's so funny. What's up, cuz?
I hope we're the, like, cool cousins, not the—.
No, totally. No. The slightly awkward ones? No.
I thought that's where you were going, which I would understand. What's up?
Well, to just get the sad part out of the way, a month ago today, my father passed away.
Oh, man. One month ago?
One month ago today.
Oh, wow.
I apologize if some tears happen here.
No, it's okay.
No apologies.
What happened?
Well, he was fighting stage 4 cancer. Nice. It was unexpected in that it was just diagnosed in October. Wow. And he had surgery in November, started chemo in December, and then, January 25th, he was—my mother found him in their living room unresponsive.
Oh, man. So he was only 62, and it's just insult to injury in this whole situation. So I already know the end of this conversation is going to be you guys telling me I have to have a difficult conversation. I know that. My question is in the how and the when.
So since this happened, my mother has been staying with us. Like I said, she found him. She found him in their home, and so it's a whole layers of just trauma and grief in this. I do have four small children and not the biggest of homes, so we've been making it work, but it's not the best of the best relationship. to begin with.
She's got some undiagnosed mental things, namely bipolar disorder. And that's something that my father really took on himself to kind of shield us from. He did leave her with a $500,000 life insurance policy, which gives me some breathing room, but that's a whole other thing that I've never done this before. I don't even know how to start telling her to live off of that. But the question comes in is I know Dave always says you don't make those big moves in tragedy like this for at least six months, but we can't keep living like this.
There are no boundaries that she will accept.
It's to the point where she's actually sleeping in a bedroom with two of my children, and I wake up in the morning and they're snuggling in bed with her. It's just, there's no healthy boundaries, and it's not giving room for any of us to grieve in a healthy way.
This is different than the six-month thing. The six-month thing would be selling her house and moving her into your place, or selling her house and fill in the blank. If she has the money to keep her place, if the house is paid off, that's what we're talking about when it comes to six months. This is a wild tragedy. came upon you, right?
And let's take it away from your dad, because it's a really heavy moment.
All of a sudden, the Deloney house is flooding, and I call Ken. And I'm like, hey, can my family come crash at your place? Ken would be like, absolutely, we'll figure it out. And I bring the Deloney's and we crash in his living room.
That is not the new normal. That is, Ken, saving my family for an evening, or maybe even two evenings, right? And then it's my responsibility to get to a place where then I can grieve and begin to make decisions. And so the conversation is not going to be as difficult as you think it is, unless your mom chooses to react in any number of unhelpful ways. You can't control that at all, period.
The greatest gift you can give your mom is for you to be well and whole so that you can walk alongside her in the next season. And for you to be well and whole, you need boundaries in your home, period.
So the conversation is something along the lines of, mom, we've got to get you home. And I've got to get my house back in order.
I'm willing to walk with you X, Y, and Z. And you and your husband talk about what that looks like. I'm willing to go to the probate and help probate this thing. And we start getting checking accounts and insurance and all the death certificates, all that stuff. I'm happy to walk alongside you and help you.
Or, I'm happy to completely step back and let you do this. You tell me. This part is happening, and then I'm asking you for what role you want me to play, moving forward.
And then the most important part of this is, by March 1st, by March 15th, you've got to be back at home.
How do I walk that? We have to put a date on it. Do what?
How do I walk that? Number one, like you said, I don't know how she's going to respond. She could be totally level-headed one day, and the next hour, that switch comes. But I also have that element of, she said to me, that's where he died. We can't even walk into that house.
So I'm trying to walk a line of grace, but I completely agree with you.
I got you. Then it might be time for a one-bedroom apartment. It might be time for one of your sisters or brothers to stand up. If it was my mom in my dad's home, I would recommend to my mother that she get a one-bedroom apartment near my family or near my sister or my brother. Because there is absolute—the environment's going to play a huge thing, a huge role.
And over a three-month lease, she's going to go back there for an hour. She's going to go back there for an hour and 30 minutes. She's going to go back there and deal with clothes and then have to leave. So this is an exposure. It's slow over time.
It has to happen. You can't just never go back in there again. Right. Unless she looks at you and says, I'm never going in that home again. You and your brothers and sisters sell everything, get rid of everything.
I'm never going back there again. Well, okay. Then we're going to have to go sit with an attorney and have her sign over a bunch of stuff. And it changes the dynamic. None of this, though, is—you're spending a lot of time in your mind, scenario after scenario after scenario.
And what you're doing is you're just making yourself mad, rehearsing potential things. Just go put the thing on the table. And let's get to the reality. part of it all.
Yeah. Rip the Band-Aid off.
Okay.
And you cannot control what she does or says afterwards. Period. And I hate that for you, but you can't.
I do have a quick financial question. Mm-hmm. You said that she got a $500,000 life insurance policy?
Pending the autopsy, yes. That is what's going to come to her.
Okay. And does she owe anything, any debt at all, or anything on the house?
They do owe on the mortgage, yes.
How much?
I think it's around $260,000, $270,000.
Yeah. I'm only asking that, John, because I feel like if a part of everything else you said, you lay out, okay, Mom, if you don't ever want to go back there again, here are our options. Here's math. Okay. So we can pay the house off and, well, at this point, just sell it.
Yeah. I'm sorry. So just sell the house, and then whatever she makes on it, so let's say she's going to walk away with $200,000 for round numbers, and then she's got the $500,000, so now she's got $700,000 in the one-bedroom apartment or whatever that John's talking about as a part of the healing process, and you just kind of explain to her, hey, you're going to be in great shape financially, and if she can't get back in there, and that's too much to overcome, but it's all about her leaving the house.
Yes. The challenge is that most people want to start because it's easier. They want to start with the spreadsheet.
Yeah, that's right.
And what I want you to do is ask your mom to invite you into the parts of what comes next that she wants you around for.
Okay. See what I'm saying? And she might say everything, or she might say, if you're kicking me out, then you're done. Okay.
Right?
And you're going to read that part of your mom's transition, and you're going to feel like I lost my mommy and my dad, which is sadly not uncommon, right? Or it's not – yeah, it happens more regularly than you would think, that you just kind of lose everything all at once. Hopefully that's not the case here. But you're going to get some pushback. Right now.
her body feels safe, wrapped around her grandbabies, and what you're saying is I need to get my home back. Do you have brothers and sisters that can help share the load here?
I have one brother who has cut off all communication with her because of how she is. Okay.
All right. That's just – yeah.
Man.
That's tough. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry for your loss. What a mess.
Hang in there, Alyssa. Appreciate the call. Wow. Tough stuff. All right.
That's going to do it for this hour. I want to thank Dr. John Deloney, my co-host. I want to thank James Childs, our fearless leader, and all of the gang behind the glass that keep us on the air. And mostly, we want to thank you, America, for joining in.
This is your show. This is The Ramsey Show.
Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life. We want to help you win with your money, win in your relationships, and win at work. And if you're not winning in any one of those areas, it's going to start to affect all the others. Dr.
John Deloney is with me. I'm Ken Coleman. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. 888-825-5225..
All right. Is that Minot or Minot? I like to say things right. We'll see. Elijah is with us in North Dakota.
I've got to get to the bottom of it. Is it Minot or Minot?
It's Minot. Minot!
Minot.
It's option C. And you're boned ahead. I thought I was hooked on phonics, John. I thought I was hooked on phonics. Not today.
All right, Elijah. How can we help?
Okay. This is kind of a very strange situation. I'm 23 years old. I work out here in the oil field. I make $26 an hour, 12-hour days, week on, week off.
I have about nine hours of free time while I'm at work. I'm a well watcher. I basically pretty much get numbers every hour or every three hours. Pretty much my total amount of labor throughout the day equates to about three hours of work. I don't have anybody down my throat.
So I basically just have a bunch of free time just sitting in my pickup, doing nothing, really. And my question is, how do I use my time and the Internet to increase my income while I'm out here? Jobs look really scammy online. And I know there's a lot of different avenues I can pursue. And it kind of got me in a state of paralysis by analysis.
And I would like your guys' input on what you would do specifically in this situation. All right.
Let's start with. you've got all these ideas. What are the top two or three that interest you?
I feel like the most scalable option is trying to get a following through social media. And I also know that with any sort of endeavor I go into money-wise, I need to have marketing and sales, which I am developing my skills in.
All right. So hold on. Hold on. I want to crystallize these ideas, okay? So one of your ideas to make extra money in the nine hours you're sitting in the truck is social media, which means you've got to build that up to a certain point.
By the way, that's pretty public. Would your bosses, if they saw that social media channel, would that cause you a lot of heartache and even make you lose your job?
I don't think so. I mean, I have posted videos out here, and he has viewed my account. So I don't think so, especially if I was getting traction.
But that's not going to make a lot of money right away. So what's the other idea?
Right. Right. That's exactly my thing.
What's another idea?
The only thing I could think of is maybe e-commerce or some sort of freelancing. But I also don't have any really skills. And everything seems to be, again, very scammy. I've been around trying to apply for jobs.
I've applied to a bunch of them, and it seems like people are just trying to get my information and take my money.
Yes, you're correct.
That's right. If I were you, and I want John to take – I want him to say what he would have – if I were you, I've got nine hours in the truck. So I'm essentially going to have to make money off my phone.
And my laptop.
Okay, great. Your laptop as well. So I'm looking at not things that require scam, but things that I completely control. So the resale industry is not a scam. So, for instance, if you're buying stuff on that week off – so you're one week on, one week off.
I interviewed a couple several years ago on my show that they started doing flea marketing and garage sales. They would go buy stuff. So, for instance, they'd go buy a leather bag for $2 from a garage sale, because they knew what it was. And they would clean it up, whatever. And then they would turn around and sell it for $20..
Okay? And so they just kept doing this for about two years. And then they got pretty good at it. And then the husband started making YouTube videos documenting what they did. And now the guy makes – are you ready for this?
– $1.
5 million a year off their YouTube channel talking about flea marketing flipping. Wow. Flea mark flipping or garage sale flipping. So that's not a – they are just simply going to the work. And so I don't want to hang that idea on you.
But I would be thinking, what can I do in my week off? that would enhance my nine hours in the truck from an e-commerce standpoint? So that's the only idea I have. But I know in the week off I could be going buying stuff, fixing it up, listing it. And I'm checking on it and all that stuff in the car.
That's just one idea, because you're limited to what you can do. But I don't want you thinking that you just have to have a scale.
Elijah, here's my thought. And maybe I'm out to lunch here. In an average football game, an NFL game, I'll sit down and watch three or four hours of a game.
There's actually 18 to 20 minutes of actual activity happening on that field over those three or four hours. The rest is timeouts, planning, calling plays, lining up, offsides. There's only 18 minutes of those four hours where there's actually men running up and down the field trying to catch a ball or hit each other. But that doesn't mean the other three and three-quarter hours are a waste of time. They're all part of the strategy of the game.
My question to you is, you're watching Wells and you're supposed to go take measurements. That doesn't mean, even though your job is boring, even though your job is dreadfully boring, that a big part of your job isn't making sure the well doesn't blow.
Yeah, I am watching millions of dollars worth of equipment.
That is your job. I think the bigger question here is, you've got a very boring job and you don't like it. Yeah.
That'll burn somebody out quick.
Everybody told you, it's a great job, dude. You can get a job in the oil fields. I'm from West Texas, so it's very similar. Oh, yeah, it's a great this. And it's a hazardous, exhausting, boring, lonely job most of the time.
No, exactly. I'm actually out here by myself.
Yes.
Oh, that's worse.
So either, like Ken said, you get really good at doing work during your off week, which I think is really wise. It's a 23-year-old without a family, without kids, without mortgages.
Well, I do have a fiance and actually a three-week-old child.
Oh, well, my bad, then. So now you've got a little less time. You're in it now, yeah. But you're working 24-7, 365 for the next few years. But I'd have a hard conversation with myself, with my wife, or my future wife, about where we're going to be, what we want to do.
And I might take those eight hours that you're not working and say, okay, if I have to get qualified for something, I want to get into marketing, I want to get into another thing. You can do education in your truck from your computer, while also watching the wells. And that way, if your boss ever comes out and goes, are you running another business on the side? You could say, no, sir, I'm getting a degree to make me a more valuable employee, right? And then you wake up.
in a year and a half, you've got $26 an hour, you've worked on the weeks off, on your on-off weeks. And you've got a qualification to go. get the next thing for you. But you hate your job, dude. You hate your job.
And so I don't want you to scam on your boss just because you took a boring job. I think you need to do it right. That's just my two cents.
Yeah, the conflict of interest is a real thing. But if you're just sitting there, I think that's...
You guys will sell stuff on eBay too, right?
Yeah, but I agree with John. I think the answer you're looking for is where do I want to be 20 years from now, and how do I use the nine hours to get me there? I agree with that. But there's other ways to make money too. So really good stuff.
Congrats on the baby. This is the Ramsey Show.
Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. So excited that you are with us. My name is Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me.
We are here for you this hour. 888-825-5225.. That's 888-825-5225.. Today's question of the day is sponsored by Neighborly, your hub for home services. Before the weather warms up, Neighborly can help you find local service pros like The Ground Guys.
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All right. Today's question comes from Samantha in Iowa. Samantha writes, we are in a predicament. We earn about $300,000 a year, and both my husband and I are at the top of our careers. We're cruising along in Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6..
The problem is our kids are miserable after our move here a couple years ago, and they're begging to move back to friends and family in Washington. Our pay will be similar to, slightly lower, but the living expenses will be much higher. Do we make our kids suck it up, or should we suck it up? We don't want to be the reason our kids are unhappy or resent us in the future.
Wow. This has got some layers to it.
Yeah, it does. What do you think, Ken?
Oh, man. Let's see. You're having me go first, and you're the psychologist.
All right. I'll go first.
No, no, no, no. I'm going to accept the challenge. All right. I'm going to accept the challenge.
This is a tough one. I'm real time in this one, okay? I don't have a set answer here. Yeah. I'm 50-50 on this.
I'm 50%. You know, you move the kids, and this is just a place, for whatever reason, they don't like. And if we were to take this question face value, it sounds like all of them are in kind of unison. We don't like living here. I certainly understand missing the friends.
And so you go, man, there's a real life resentment here that we've got to think about. And if the kids are saying, hey, we just don't like living here, that weighs on me a little bit. It doesn't sound superficial. But the other 50 is kind of going, look, you're the parents, and you're raising them, and you give them life. Gave them life.
You're sustaining their life. You guys made this decision. It was best for the family financially at the time, it looks like. You made some career moves, and it took you to Iowa. Now, that's where I'm 50-50, and I know it sounds like a politician on a Sunday morning show.
I think I'm going to go my heart here, and I'm going to tip it and go 60-40, and I'm going to go. I would go back because they're in Baby Step 4,, 5, and 6.. They're projecting their income is going to be just slightly lower, and I'm going, that's limiting. I think that may be short-term anyway. And cost of living, when you're 4,, 5, and 6, that's why we teach this process.
You can absorb things that people that are broke cannot. So, gosh.
When you're 300, man, our cost of living, is that 1,500 square feet difference, or is it 500 square feet? You know what I mean? What are we not doing?
I think I choose my kids on this one. Is that too soft?
No. I don't know. I may regret it. What I would do ahead of time, often this conversation, when it comes up with children, is they are experiencing. They are absorbing.
I say this often. They are absorbing the tension in their home. And what they miss is, yes, they have friends and family. They've got those faces. They've got those names.
They've got those memories. But often what a kid is remembering is that, ah. And if you guys move to a new town, y'all at the top of your careers, y'all are working all day, your kids may be sensing that tension in the home. Y'all may not have been as intentional about friends and people coming over and developing relationships and getting involved in Little League games and stuff like that, because you're at the top of your careers. And so I would invest in, if Iowa is the place that you and your wife, or you and your husband, think this is for us, I would give it six months to really double down and try to make a home in Iowa.
Are we involved in games, in sports? Do we have people in our house every single week? Are we involved in a local church?
Well, hold on a second. And I love where you're going. Yep. So it actually says it was a couple years ago. They've been in Iowa a couple years.
Well, I'm wondering if they moved to Iowa, started their jobs, dropped the kids off in school and said, let's go make it.
Oh, you're saying six months of a new rhythm or something?
Of a new rhythm in their home. Yeah.
What if, okay, I love that. What if the kids just don't like where they live in Iowa?
Yeah. Then I think you have to ask the question, like, if this is where our job is, this is where our job is. If this is where y'all are choosing to live, because y'all want to, like, squeeze another, we get to get a house with a pool instead of just a regular house. Go back to the regular house where your whole family has peace.
That's where I'm leaning. Right. Okay. I didn't know that I could defend it. I felt my way through that one.
Yeah, but mainly it feels gross if we're all going to be miserable because look at the car in the driveway.
That's where I was going. The kids are very unhappy.
They're barometers for your home.
Yeah, but we're going to make slightly more money in our cost of living. Like, groceries are cheaper in Iowa. We know that. Gas is cheaper in Iowa.
You're making $300, you're going to go to $290, you're going to be fine. Ain't nobody going to, you're going to be fine. Right?
Yeah, I'm staring at my first kid leaving.
Yeah. He's an 18-year-old senior.
Yeah. And I mean, nobody wants to hear me say it, so I won't. Yeah.
But. Oh yeah, man, it's tough.
The clock is ticking.
Yeah, it is.
And I just, that's kind of where I'm leaning.
Last year, after spring break, my wife looked at me because I missed most of it. I was out speaking somewhere and she said, hey, we got five.
I know. What do you mean?
She said, you got five more with Hank and then he's gone. And then he doesn't come home for spring break. And it was just this, like what? You know what I mean? So yeah, the clock is ticking, ticking, ticking.
But I get a sense between the lines here. This is a family that moved somewhere. Look how much money we're going to make and did not do the work to invest in the local relationships, to get plugged into the community.
To where the landing was softer for the kids.
Right. Because kids are so resilient and they pick up new relationships all over the place.
That's very good. That's a good point. Yeah. It's a very good point. And it also could be a season of life that the kids are in too, which makes it a little bit harder.
They may come through the storm. I will tell you something right now. Our last one is about to finish middle school, and it can't happen fast enough. I hate middle school. And I don't remember having a bad middle school experience.
Mine's about to finish middle school and I don't ever want it to end. Do you hate it as well? No, I love it. I love all of it. I love the awkwardness, the goofiness, all the kids coming over, the squeaky voices.
I love every second of it all.
I wouldn't talk about that part. I'm talking about what it's like for these kids, the environment.
Oh, it's hell.
That's what I'm talking about. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm not talking about the kids themselves.
Oh, I'm just talking about for me.
Although, I would like to have you revise that answer. I'd like to bring that back up after Josephine goes through it.
Nope.
Thank you very much.
She will not go to middle school. She's going to skip it and go directly to college.
Not a bad idea. All right. Let's see here. Let's go real quick to Clay. I think we can get to Clay.
Clay, you're on the Ramsey Show. How can we help?
Yes, sir. How are you today?
We're good. We've got about a minute and a half, unfortunately. Let's see if we can help you. Can you hit us with your question?
Oh, yeah. I am 28.. I am debt-free. The house I'm living in is paid off. My car is paid off.
I make a little under $30,000 a year. I want to move from Lafayette, Louisiana, to Denver, Colorado. I was wondering if it was smarter for me to rent a place first for a year, while I put my current house in a place that I've been living in for a year.
or do I just go ahead and buy myself a place outright out there?
Even if you didn't have a home, it would be smart to rent. I'm agreeing. Moving to a new state, just getting a lay of the land, where the grocery stores are, where the weather is, where your friends are going to end up, where your church is going to end up. Yeah. You're moving across the country into a new state.
I would rent six months or a year just to get the lay of the land, figure out where I even want to live. Absolutely. Yeah.
And the bonus to that advice is you get your house sold in Lafayette, and you're done, and you got the money saved up. We want you to use that 20% down payment is what we'd like to see, the 15-year mortgage, the whole deal. And so take your time. And just to back John up, when we moved here with three kids, we had come from a home that we had been in for 11 years, and we rented for two.
And we rented here in Nashville, too. Yeah.
And I don't regret it. No. We knew then that we wanted to drop stakes where we did, and that was very helpful. So I think that's great advice. Love it.
Check out Denver, though. Check out that Denver News. Check out those headlines. I'm just going to leave it at that. It's in the news a lot.
I'm going to think about where we move and why we're moving, because that stuff matters. All right. We've got to take a quick break. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show.
Welcome back, America. You're joining the conversation here on The Ramsey Show. So excited that you are with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr.
John Deloney is with me. Let's get to Sarah in Hilton Head, South Carolina. Sarah, how can we help?
Hi. My husband and I are facing a relocation coming up, and the plan is to build a house. And I'm just trying to figure out what we can afford. We've kind of gotten pretty far into the process where we put down a 5% down deposit to the builder of $50,000, and that was on Tuesday. And we have nine days to pull out and get all of our money back.
And as I'm shopping around for mortgages, I'm getting cold feet because the interest rates are just so volatile right now, and I'm having a hard time to get a clear picture of what's going on. And I'm just trying to figure out if you think that we can afford a million-dollar build.
Okay. How much are you putting down?
So, initially, we have to put 10% down because it's a construction loan. We have our house now that we're going to sell. And at the end of the construction loan, when we sell our house, we're going to put down somewhere between $500,000 and $550,000..
Okay. And so what will your estimated mortgage payment be?
Well, they haven't factored in us making that overpayment. So, without us putting down $500,000 to $550,000, it's looking at about $7,000 a month.
What's your take-home?
And that's including escrowing our taxes and everything. Yeah.
But here's the deal. You can do a mortgage calculator. You can do a basic mortgage calculator. We have one, don't we?
We have one. At Ramsey Solutions.
RamseySolutions.
com. You can actually do it yourself with the $500,000 you're putting down. So, essentially, you're going to have a mortgage of $500,000, if I heard you correctly. Is that right?
Or $400,000.
. Yeah.
Was it $500,000 or $400,000?
It'll be about $450,000 or $500,000, depending on how much we put down. Gotcha.
So, then you just look at the interest rate and you play it out. And so, let's just assume that it's $7,000 a month. If you've got your taxes and everything else, you've got to look at that. And my guess is that's way above your 25% of your take-home. Am I right?
If we don't put any money.
. So, the $7,000 per month is without putting any money down. That would be like a jumbo mortgage.
Okay. I'm confused. I apologize. What is it going to be if you only owe $450,000??
I'm having a hard time getting a clear picture of that. But I think it's going to be somewhere around $4,000 a month.
Okay. So, what do you guys take home?
So, my husband brings home $325,000 a year, and I'm a freelancer. And so, it varies anywhere between $60,000 and $80,000 a year.
Okay. So, you know our formula, right?
Is it like 25% to a third of your income?
25% is the high end. The high end. We don't want you going above 25%.
Okay.
So, you're giving me your gross numbers, not your take-home. So, you've got to run the numbers on your take-home. Okay. I think you're probably okay there. I'm not the best math guy.
If you're making $325,000 plus $60,000 to $80,000, and you have a $4,000 mortgage, that's a no-brainer. That's fine.
That's fine.
Okay. Here's what I don't like. I don't like that, for some reason, your body is telling you to run from this.
That's right.
Well, it's just scary. I mean, we're very risk-averse. Our current home, we only owe $20,000 on the mortgage.
Why are you moving? Why are you building a million-dollar house?
Okay. So, my husband had a new job, and that's another thing. It's a new job. It's a relocation. So, we're still getting our footing and trying to figure out what is the take-home.
What does it look like?
It's an expensive area. My priority was the school system, and the school that I liked the best just came with a very high price tag.
Are you moving to Hilton Head?
No. So, we're in Hilton Head now, and we're moving to Metro Detroit area.
Okay. Can I tell you something? I would rent. I think John's right. There's a check in your spirits, a new job.
There's a lot of unknown. I don't... And you owe so little on your current house, which means you're going to get a lot of equity. You're going to have a lot of cash to sit on when you sell it. But I would rent.
That's what Stacy, and I did. So did John.
That's what me and my wife did. John and Sheila did the same thing. When we moved to a new city, dude, I would not buy a house.
Especially with kids.
You don't know where your friends are going to live.
Well, this is the issue. This is the issue, is that the kids need to get into a school. They do. You can rent.
You do realize that people that rent.
But then we might have to change schools. No, no. If we decide we like this area. No.
You can rent.
And it's in a different school system.
No, no, no, no. Listen. You pick the school system. So, I'm going to give you an example. John knows exactly what I'm talking about.
We chose Williamson County. Okay? There's surrounding counties here in this area. And we heard that Williamson County were the best schools. So, we said, alright, we're going to get in Williamson County Public Schools.
What we did not lock in was neighborhood and house. So, what I'm saying is, pick what is a really good school system and situation and then rent. But let me also say, how old are the kids?
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