Flightless Bird: Smokey Bear
2024-03-05 00:47:18
Hi, I’m Dax Shepard, and I love talking to people. I am endlessly fascinated by the messiness of being human, and I find people who are vulnerable and honest about their struggles and shortcomings to be incredibly sexy. I invite you to join me as I explore other people’s stories. We will celebrate, above all, the challenges and setbacks that ultimately lead to growth and betterment. What qualifies me for such an endeavor? More than a decade of sobriety, a degree in Anthropology and four years of improv training. I will attempt to discover human “truths” without any laboratory work, clinical trials or data collection. I will be, in the great tradition of 16th-century scientists, an Armchair Expert.
Hi, I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander, accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now. a while back, we did a whole episode about bears, and how the shaggy, hairy creatures help shape the experience of the American outdoors. What we're talking about is a relationship. The bear is a thing that you can get your, literally, you can get your hands on, or it can get its claws on you.
But we're also talking about nature as an agent in our lives. In that episode, we briefly touched on the cultural icon that is Smokey Bear, an educational mascot who's turned into the longest-running PSA in American history. Somehow, a cartoon that existed outside of Disney ended up being one of the world's most recognizable fictional characters. Don't play with matches. Don't play with fire.
Only you can prevent wildfires.
Fire!
And America takes the image of Smokey seriously. His image is protected by U.S. federal law. Pirate Smokey, deface Smokey, sell Smokey, and who knows what could happen to you. I wanted to learn more about how this bear got so big.
Who made Smokey? What's Smokey doing? And why do millions of Americans care about a bear that's not even real? So, grab your shovel, ripped jeans, and weirdly muscular torso, and prepare to prevent some forest fires. Because this is the Smokey Bear episode.
Flightless, flightless, flightless bird, touchdown in America.
I'm a flightless bird, touchdown in America. America.
So, you're saying Smokey Bear, not Smokey the Bear.
We've already had a debate before we even started this, because it's Smokey the Bear versus Smokey Bear.
Yeah, I always thought it was Smokey the Bear. Yeah. It's Smokey Bear. Are you sure? There's never been a that.
I think, colloquially, we inserted it because it sounds better. Smokey the Bear.
Is this like the Mandela effect?
It's Smokey Bear.
In order to maintain the correct rhythm, the writers added a the between Smokey and Bear.
Yeah, I get into this because it's the song. Yeah, so there's a song that I'm going to play in the documentary, and to make that song sound good, Smokey the Bear. But officially, on the website or the official channels, Smokey Bear. Wow. Would be like calling you Monica the Padman, you know?
Would you like to be called Monica the Padman?
I don't hate it.
Monica the Padman.
It sounds very important.
It could be a rebrand.
It could. Maybe when I'm 40..
I'm going to call you Monica the Padman. What's your relationship with Smokey Bear? Was he part of your childhood? Was he a joke? Was he everywhere?
I have to be honest. He's very-.
You don't give a shit. He's a minimal.
Yeah, he's a minimal. He doesn't play a big role in my childhood or life. I definitely heard of him and knew of him, Smokey the Bear. I knew it had to do with like-.
Smokey Bear.
What is the timeline? When did the come into play? When did the song happen?
The song happened in 52.. So it's a long time.
Yeah, it's been forever. My whole life was the-.
I think we can call him Smokey the Bear.
Okay.
There's a whole Reddit thread about this, that even in a movie in the 80s, they said Smokey the Bear says you can prevent forest fires.
It sounds so much better. They should change it. I'm going to-.
Well, the reason is because it doesn't actually make sense. It's not that. his last name is Bear.
It's not, Mr. Bear.
Exactly. He just is a bear.
He is a bear. You're completely right. It makes no-.
Smokey Bear sounds like something they'd say in New Zealand wrong.
What?
Rob, was he an icon for you growing up?
Yeah. Yeah. I knew a lot. We've had things in school about him and we watched the videos.
What?
Because maybe we're in a more wooded area. It was more prominent.
Well, no, there's lots of trees in Georgia.
I mean, we need him here. I mean, walking around, because I walk up Griffith Park all the time and there's a Smokey Bear cutout of him. And it's like, don't light a fire.
So this is maybe like Bader Meinhof. Now I'm going to start seeing him everywhere.
No, he is, though. He's everywhere. If you start looking around for Smokey, he's always in the woods. He's always around. And I've seen a lot of him.
Does he have a monopoly on fire safety?
Yeah, he does.
In America.
And we get into that. He is the longest running PSA in American history. Yeah, he is kind of fascinating. I'm trying to think about other icons that we have. In New Zealand, I've talked about Harold the Giraffe.
He's like an icon for health, sort of health care and sort of education.
Right.
We've got this dairy called Foursquare, and that's got this iconic man. We know him. Icons are such a funny thing. They are. These characters just are so...
Ubiquitous.
Yeah, they just get into your brain.
Well, we've talked about a lot of the serial mascots. Tony, the Tiger.
Wasn't there a dare dog?
Oh, we had Dare, but I don't remember...
Was that the drug program?
Oh, there was a dog, but I don't remember his name or anything. McGruff?
Oh, really? We had that Dare anti-drug program in New Zealand. I don't remember it coming with a dog.
I wonder, were they for profit, Dare?
I'm curious. Do you think, in the back of your mind, it was some sort of scam going on?
A little bit.
No, it's a non-profit.
It's a non-profit. Oh, okay, okay. But it's still part of the war on drugs.
You always hear about... Yeah, it definitely had that behind it.
Yeah.
So this is one of these episodes where I recorded this when I was recording the Roswell episode. Okay. Because I had a dad in Roswell, and I was like, I've got to record another flightless bird. And I did some Googling, and my friend Jess was like, the Smoky Bear Museum is near here. Wow.
And so this is where this episode came from. So this is part one of the Smoky Bear documentary, where we learn a little bit about the that and the bear, and some other exciting facts. Now, young fellas, you've been having a lot of fun around here today, haven't you? Camping in the great outdoors. This is probably the most confusing flightless bird episode I've ever made, because when you're dealing with something so iconic, so legendary, it's hard to know what's real and what's just legend.
I'm going to sing a song about someone who lives in the forest all the time. Like, is it Smoky Bear or Smoky The Bear? In the iconic Eddie Arnold song from 1952, it's definitely Smoky The Bear, which is what I thought it was.
And now for my song.
It's called Smoky The Bear.
With a ranger's hat and shovel and a pair of dungarees, you will find him in the forest, always sniffing at the breeze. People stop and pay attention when he tells them to beware, cause everybody knows that he's the fire-preventing bear. Smoky, the bear, Smoky, the bear, growling and a growling and a sniff in the air. But apparently, Eddie got it wrong. They added the the so it would fit the rhythm of the song better.
Officially, it's just Smoky Bear. And at its most simple, Smoky Bear is just a big ad campaign. A campaign to stop fire. An ad campaign that wasn't even meant to involve a bear. Good morning, young friends!
When Bambi came out in 1942, the U.S. Forest Service had just started its campaign to stop forest fires, and they wanted Bambi as their symbol. Walt Disney said, yes, we'll lend you Bambi, but only for a year. So when the year was up, the Forest Service needed a brand new icon. And so Harry Rosal, who worked for the fire service, sketched out Smoky, a brown bear who hated fires.
There have been modifications and changes to Harry's idea, but since 1944, cartoon Smoky has been the face of wildlife prevention in America. Which is why I got very confused when someone told me that Smoky was a real bear who was buried in a grave in New Mexico. How could a cartoon be buried? Yet again, America had me bamboozled. Do you get a lot of bears around here, in this particular area?
Yeah, North American black bear. And not so much here in the town, but up in the mountains, definitely. If you go to Wui, Do, so. it's not too far, they get elk, wild horses still in town, and occasional black bears.
I'd arrived in the tiny town of Capitan in New Mexico. It was in the middle of nowhere. Albuquerque was about three hours north, and the Mexican border was three hours south. I'd come in search of Smoky's alleged gravesite, and had met up with a park ranger called Max.
Being American, you kind of know about Smoky. But a lot of people around the world know about Smoky, so he's a really popular icon. In fact, that's one of the reasons I became a park ranger, was because of Smoky, and I found myself here after so many years.
Max has brought me to the Smoky Bear Historical Park here in Capitan. He's wearing jeans and a buttoned-up New Mexico Forestry Division shirt. What sort of people do you get coming through?
All sorts. You guys from New Zealand, and we got people from Thailand that came earlier this summer. But all sorts. Mostly in the summertime, we get more of the crowds.
Capitan is a tiny town. It covers about three square miles, and less than 1,500 people live here. And it's famous for Smoky Bear. Because it turns out, while Smoky started as a cartoon, and what sounds like some kind of crazy magic, he ended up being a real bear too. Max tells me that back in 1950, a tiny bear cub was rescued from a fire here in the Capitan Mountains, and that cub was brought to the attention of the U.S.
Forest Service's PR people. Here was not only a real bear, but a cute cub. And not just a cute cub, a cute cub that had been rescued from an out-of-control fire. The Forest Service had found their secret weapon, their ultimate symbol. What was it about this particular bear?
that sort of drew you into this world of, I guess, conservation and nature?
I guess just his story, being a cub and surviving such a horrific fire. And he's such a cute, cuddly bear, so you get behind that story. And then him with his ranger, iconic ranger hat. I always wanted to have a ranger hat like that with the National Park Service.
I notice Max is wearing a hat today, but it's just an ordinary cap, not Smoky's round ranger hat. Apparently, working as a ranger at the Smoky Museum doesn't get you Smoky's iconic hat after all.
We don't have the cool cap, like the Park Service does, but I'm still a park ranger.
He takes me inside to the museum, which is basically a large log cabin. It's charming. And the history of Smoky is up on the walls all around us. I was surprised to find out that Smoky Bear was a real bear. I had no idea about this.
Yes, yes. In fact, he was found just 15 miles from the museum, up in the Capitan Mountains in 1950.. Ray Bell, the game warden that took care of him, of course, he knew the ad campaign of Smoky first. So he's like, well, we got a perfectly good bear to become the living symbol. We found him in a fire, so let's name him Smoky.
Went to the U.S. Forest Service, who had the rights to Smoky.
A bear cub that had survived a forest fire? It was like all of the U.S. Forest Service's Christmases had come at once. This bear cub was both a symbol of the horrors of wildfire and a symbol of hope and survival. Max introduces me to his colleague, a huge Smoky fan.
I'm Wendy, and I tell the people about Smoky. During World War II, back in 1944, the campaign started, and they tried different cartoon characters like Bambi and stuff, and they didn't fit that. So when they found Smoky, they thought he would be the perfect icon and the living symbol for the fire prevention, since he was in a fire on the Capitan Mountains, and it burned over about 17,000 acres. But he was a lucky bear.
Yeah, he climbed a tree and all four of his paws were burned, even on his backside. The adult animals know how to get away from a fire, so the mom left Smoky to his own devices, and then the fire crews found him clinging to a tree.
Ray Bell, a ranger from the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish, heard about the cub and took him in, before taking him direct to the Forest Service, with the idea of the bear being some kind of mascot. The Forest Service were keen. And that's when the Ad Council came in, taking the story and spinning it into legend. The Ad Council's this other very American thing, starting its life as pure American propaganda. Back in the 40s, it was called the Wartime Advertising Council, existing purely to drum up support for the war effort in World War II.
They made ads to get Americans to enlist in the army and buy war bonds. How did they come to work on the Smoky campaign? Well, during World War II, there was this big fear about an invading Japanese army setting parts of America on fire, using missiles launched from submarines, or by sending fiery balloons up into American airspace. So-called balloon bombs. So the Wartime Advertising Council had to alert Americans to this danger, coming up with slogans like, Forest fires, aid the enemy, and our carelessness, their secret weapon.
More recently, the Ad Council recognized that parts of that campaign were pretty racist, stoking paranoia of non-white Americans and foreigners, and illustrating Japanese people in pretty disparaging ways. But yeah, scared of Japanese fires, the Ad Council ended up repping this bear cub, and attaching him to the existing Smoky Bear campaign. And their message of keeping an eye out for fires, has become the longest-running PSA in America's history. Smoky is now a giant blow-up bear in the annual Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. And it seems nearly every time Smoky has a birthday, America really puts in an effort to do something special.
Hello Smoky Bear, and happy birthday.
I'm Joe Acaba, Expedition 32 flight engineer on the International Space Station. It is your 68th birthday, and what a journey it has been. In 2012,, NASA took a Smoky Bear toy into space and wished him happy birthday.
Thank you for all you do, I wish you all the best in your next 68 years of public service.
An astronaut holds the doll and lets it float in front of him in zero gravity, as he thanks various American institutions responsible for this bear. It's sort of surreal in how specific he is.
And I would like to take this opportunity to recognize that you are managed by the U.S. Forest Service in cooperation with the National Association of State Foresters.
and the Ad Council, an organization that improves change and improves lives. And back here on Earth, in the museum, the legend lives on.
He lived to be 26. Average age of a North American black bear is from 20 to 25 years old. So he lived past that 26, and he actually got to retire as a federal employee before he died.
And what does that mean? That's like an official thing that the state puts on him?
Since he was a fire prevention bear for the U.S. Forest Service, he was basically a federal employee in Washington, D.C., in the zoo. So then, when he got old enough, they retired him, and he actually got like a pension and everything.
Smoky spent most of his life at the National Zoo in Washington, 26 years of it. Despite the fact that bears can't read, he got 13,000 letters a month and was visited by millions. I'm not sure a zoo is the best life for a bear, but it's probably better than being burned alive after your mother abandons you. Smoky mostly ate bluefish and trout, and he loved peanut butter.
And then, when he passed, they moved him from Washington back to his hometown to be buried. That's how he is in our backyard right now, buried.
Smoky, dead and buried. One could only dream of getting this sort of treatment in death. Most of us have forgotten. after about a week, this bear lives on.
He is more famous than the president was back then. He had his own zip code, and he got more letters than the president did.
I checked, and they weren't bullshitting. The dead bear. zip code is 202-52.. The only Americans to have their own private zip code, the current president, and Smoky. Smoky Bear, just another very normal American story.
Did you have any idea about any of this?
That's incredible. I did not.
Yeah, they take Smoky so seriously here. Yeah. Own zip code along with the current president. And also just things like that. NASA video is so unusual to watch, because it's like a NASA astronaut up there with a little Smoky Bear toy, giving this speech, almost like there's a gun to his head, name dropping all the people involved in the creation of Smoky.
And then I went on to the Smoky Bear website, because it's so ingrained in America's culture, and because it's such a big touchstone. There's so many rules about how you can use his image, and what you can use him for. And there's instructions on, if you've got a Smoky Bear outfit, how to wear it properly, if you're a park ranger, how to talk about him. He's almost treated like this religious icon or something.
Wow. I had no idea about so much of this. It started off as a sad story.
Well, yeah, the fact that his mum just bailed.
Abandoned.
And left the cub up a tree, his little paws burnt. Oh, burnt. It's, I mean, it's really great. They rescued him. That's a great thing.
But yeah, incredibly sad. I mean, how do you feel if your mum just left you up a tree to burn?
I would be mad at her.
Horrific. I always panic about what I'll do with a friend if there's like a dangerous situation, if I'll be a hero or panic and run off. If we were walking up Griffith Park, Monica, you and I and a forest fire was moving in and you climbed a little tree to get off the ground and I just ran, you know, I worry that I would do that.
I think you would.
So I am down deep as sort of a coward. I know this because there's ever been threats of violence kind of around my friends. I noticed myself starting to freeze. So I'm worried. I'm in that mode.
Yes.
I wouldn't be very protective. So I think I would be potentially like Smoky, the bear's mum.
My friend, Anthony, shout out. The same Anthony from Synced. We went to Cannes together in college, Cannes Film Festival, as a study abroad. And he's going to be very mad that I am telling this story, because it's one of his biggest regrets.
And he listens to this.
And he does listen to this. He doesn't listen to Synced. It's the only show he doesn't listen to. And we got in a big, big point of contention. So we were at this fancy hotel where all, like a bunch of celebrities, stay.
And our director is like, after the premieres and stuff, you can go to the hotels and walk around and see who you see.
I'll bump into some people.
Exactly. So, him and I went up the elevator. We just like, went as high up as we could go. Like go to the highest level. And there was no, you know, yeah, just see what you see.
You need a swipe usually to get up there.
Exactly. But no swipe on the loose. We stepped out and we're just walking down the hall. And then there are two security guards. And okay.
Like, who cares? Anthony panics. He full on panics.
He knew he had done a crime by going to this level of the hotel.
Yes. And starts sprinting.
Oh, he runs.
Yeah. He starts running. And then I start running because.
Wait, what was his mentality? Was he was worried, he was on the wrong floor?
We have to call him.
This is so interesting. I understand the mindset. If you're feeling like, you're not meant to be somewhere.
Right.
You can sometimes.
But why run like that? I mean, now he wouldn't. We were in college, but still. We were both like kind of running down the stairs. And he pushed me out of the way.
And then kept running and ran outside.
Oh, this is incredible.
You didn't just run to the elevator and go back down?
No, then we'd have to wait at the elevator. The whole point is to get out of there.
No, I mean, I feel I'm. I'm worried. I am that person in time. I kind of do get that vibe from you, you know, talk a big game. But when it comes to the crunch, I'm pushing you aside.
Yeah, I'm leaving up that tree.
OK, let's call him. It's his birthday.
Groundhog's Day. Andy and Elizabeth's anniversary. And Anthony's birthday.
Yeah, it's a lot. Lots of phone calls to this.
I'm happy.
Groundhog's Day.
Are you recording again?
Yes. No.
But we're recording Flightless Bird, a show you like and listen to.
Was I just such a fan favorite? You guys, just bring me back.
Exactly. Also, happy birthday. Thank you so much. And happy Groundhog's Day.
Thank you.
I don't hear anyone else wishing me happy birthday. Happy birthday.
Happy birthday. Thank you, guys.
Thank you. That's so kind. Thank you.
You're going to love what I'm about to ask you about today.
Oh, God.
Anthony, what was actually happening in your brain when you ran from the security guards and pushed me down the stairs?
Absolutely not. Yeah, I just need to know.
Because the reason we're talking about this is David is essentially saying he thinks he would do that, too.
David, I don't think we've ever met. You would definitely do that. Right?
I know. I get that vibe as well. And so we're trying to get to the bottom of what's happening in the brain. So the security people would have just said, like, you guys can't be up here. And we said, OK.
Like, why the run?
I don't know what you're talking about.
Hypothetically, yes, I did.
OK.
It would be because I'm about to get in trouble. That's all it was. It was like, we are breaking a rule, which we weren't even really breaking any rules.
Exactly. Hypothetically. But yes, I think for me, it's just like, do not get in trouble.
Do you relate to that at all, David? Oh, absolutely. I get anxious about things and I go to worst case scenario. Yes, exactly.
But then you create the worst case scenario. I mean. All the time. OK. All the time.
I mean, I remember even on that trip, I don't know how it came up, but someone said, we're talking about how we see ourselves or something.
I was like, in my head, I'm a person silent in the back corner of the room and no one notices. And then a friend was like, that is not what's happening.
So.
You take up so much space. Can we talk about the Monica push?
Yeah, let's talk about it. What are your questions?
Just you kind of seeing Monica there and giving her a little shove out of the way.
I do not want this.
Listen, listen, listen, listen. It was more just like, keep going, Monica.
You're not going fast enough.
You got to keep going. That's some nice revisionist history for you. I did write it all down somewhere.
I don't know. I wrote down the account.
You did that day like it fresh.
Diaried it. Yeah. I kept like a blog or something. About why I was gone.
Oh, my God. Thank you.
Well, Anthony is now the father of three. He's grown up. He's not pushing people down.
I'm a good person now, people.
He's a pretty good person. He's not a feminist, but he it is his birthday. So I really don't know how I became a character in all of this.
I'm going to stop answering your calls.
Because you're not someone who stands in the corner. That's just the truth. All right.
Well, thanks for chatting.
Shout out to my sister, Lisa.
She loves Flightless Bird.
Oh, great.
Shout out.
All right.
Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.
Flightless Bird is sponsored by BetterHelp. Now, we were talking about this before, Monica. We're both incredibly busy. There's too much going on. I know.
And I sometimes do fantasize, if I had an extra hour in the day, what would I do? And I would say go to a movie, but that's not long enough.
Exactly.
It's not a good use of the hour. You're going to be annoyed because you have to walk out of that movie halfway through.
Exactly.
So the question is, if you had that hour, what would you use it for? And the best way, I think, to squeeze that special thing into your schedule is to know what's important to you and make it a priority. And you can see where I'm going with this.
BetterHelp.
Therapy, BetterHelp. It fits into that hour schedule. I have been talking a lot, actually, about boundaries with my therapist, which apparently everyone knows about, except me. So I'm learning about that. They're hard.
They're really hard because we're people pleasers, but we also need to protect our own brains and hearts. So boundaries is my current therapy topic.
Well, we love therapy over here. And we really think there's no downside to it. And BetterHelp is such an easy way because it's online. It's flexible to do your schedule. You can switch therapists if one isn't right for you, which is common.
That's always my panic. It's like, uh-oh, I'm going to get locked into this thing. Right. You can change if you need to.
Exactly.
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Booking.com, yeah. Booking.com offers so many possibilities across the U.S. for all the travelers you want to be.
Traveling's fun. I'm feeling antsy for some travel.
It hits you, doesn't it? And travel represents different things to different people. Some people can go far, some people... But even just traveling to a different state is amazing.
You get to do that, for this show all the time.
Just getting out, I feel incredibly lucky. And you want booking to be easy, and Booking.com gives you that. Yeah.
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Did you used to have a thing, when you're a student in America, where you'd call up the radio station and get them to dedicate a song to someone? That was... Was that a thing?
I'm trying to think of, was it a real thing? Or was it just a rumor that you did that?
Because in New, Zealand, when I was maybe 15-ish, there was a real phase in my year where you would call up, I don't know, like the 8pm radio show. Like, can you dedicate Mr. Boombastic to Ali or something? And did you? From David.
I did a couple of times. But I remember being on the call and sweating so nervous because I get so many requests that yours don't always go through. But every night I'd call, every night. But one time it went through and I just remember, it was probably the most excited I've ever been in my life. And also scared.
Yeah, you were. Like, what? if Ali hears that? Like, what does that mean? Oh, my God, she's heard it now.
What's it going to be like at school tomorrow? Like, is she going to want to go out with me now? Like, what's going to happen? I did go out with her for a day.
After that?
And then she dumped me for Paul Hartley. Oh. It was a good day, though. What song? We didn't talk to each other on that day.
It was just an agreement that we were going out. Yeah. Maybe I was a bit younger. I was probably 17.. And I think it was maybe like 13-ish or something.
Okay, but what song did you request? Mr. Bombastic? What is that?
Shaggy. Yeah, you know this song.
I know Shaggy, but do I know Mr. Bombastic?
Okay, just very quickly.
Yeah, we got to hear it.
Okay, rest in peace, Shaggy.
He died?
He died, yeah.
Recently?
Um, fairly recently.
Oh, no, that is sad.
No, he didn't.
Oh, he's not dead?
No. Oh, my God.
What? He's still alive?
Yeah, he's not dead.
I've got to get him for the show. I thought he was dead. Why did you think that?
I'm so happy. He's still alive.
Are you sure, Rob?
No, there's an article. Here's an article, Shaggy. I'm not dead.
It was a rumor?
I guess. Yeah, it must have been. Okay, I'm not the only one. He's not dead.
Wait, this is crazy.
This is a great day for me. Imagining like one of your heroes. You thought he's dead. He's alive.
This one says he died like two days ago. But this is one article.
Oh, wait.
Wait, what is-.
And it's not listed anywhere else.
No, you cannot do this. Hold on.
About 11 a.m. Eastern time on Wednesday.
You can't take me on this rollercoaster.
January 31st, our beloved singer Shaggy passed away.
Wait, are you kidding? How could that-?
No way, this is-.
I don't think this is real, though.
No, on Wikipedia, it doesn't say death day or anything.
Yeah, that's what I-.
So maybe he's one of these people, there are constant rumors. It's just one of those names where there's constant rumors that they passed away. Jeff Goldblum gets this. They'll be like, Jeff's fallen off a cliff in Iceland or something.
What a weird life where everyone's just saying you died all the time.
Oh, my God.
He's got an Instagram account. He's 55..
Okay, so he's not dead. No.
I don't think so.
I've hated this. This is very stressful.
Yeah, he posted stories today. At the Grammys.
Oh, because it's Greg.
Oh, my God, what in the fuck?
This is depraved. Okay, this is Mr. Bombastic. Okay. We want some bombastic romantic fantastic- This was so big in New.
Zealand.
Nothing,
Monica?
It's not really ringing a bell. I know this song.
Yeah, this was... Look, I can only talk to New. Zealand. This was so big. And so to get that dedicated to Ali was such a big achievement.
I was on the edge. It would have been like 97.. Wow.
He's on tour in Australia right now.
I thought he was at the Grammys. What are you saying?
The information flowing in is hectic today.
There's photos of him in some Grammy stuff. But he's also playing Melbourne tonight. Okay. 18 hours ago.
All right.
Oh, I love this. I can't remember. Why are we talking about this?
Radio dedications.
Oh, radio dedications. Yeah. So, actually, I would have assumed that you would have been too nervous to do something like that.
I was nervous.
But you did it. So maybe you wouldn't push someone down the stairs or run if there's a fire for Shaggy.
Thank you.
For Shaggy, for Smokey Bear.
Shaggy's on fire is the new headline.
Thanks, Monica. Honestly, I like to think, like we all would, that I'd react in a brave way to a situation. But I just always suspect that I am a bit of a coward.
Wait, this is actually so, Sim. So I was sleeping last night. I think I was sleeping or half asleep or something.
Okay, you should be clear on that. I know, but my sleep's weird. It's important to the story.
I know, but-.
Can we establish if you're asleep or awake?
No, I don't know. There's a chance. I was sort of half waking up from sleep. I have weird sleep, hence my seizures. And so I heard a car and it sounded like a big screeching, and it sounded like a crash.
Okay. And I thought, oh no, I should go, see. It's the middle of the night.
Someone might need my help.
Yes.
There's a car on fire, maybe. Maybe I can drag someone out.
Well, yeah. I mean, I was just like, what just happened? And then I just sat there for so long thinking, what do I do? No, I was laying still. With my eyes closed.
I was wondering, what's my responsibility in this life? It got deep because it's the middle of the night and I'm a small girl in pajamas.
At what point are you required to leap into action?
Exactly. And I don't know what it was. Of course, if I see something going on, yes, I'll call 911.. But I then was like, I don't think I should go out in the middle of the night and go be by myself dealing with this. But then I thought, well, should I just call 911 and say, I think I heard a crash?
Yeah. Worst case scenario. But what if I didn't? You don't want to be driving in to record this podcast. You turn on the radio.
They say a family of five burned to death last night.
Because no one called the police.
Help. No one called the police. No one did anything. That hasn't happened, by the way, Monica. It's okay.
So I have a thing. And this is maybe a bit weird.
Actually, I've seen that on the news.
Stop.
Rob.
He'll steal his fire.
Naughty today. Also fire.
Fire is actually, people would call more fast.
No, maybe not. Yes.
Because if a car drove by and saw fire, you'd call. But if you didn't know.
Because people were sleeping and didn't wake up.
Shut up.
I have a thing. And this is maybe specific to me. My brain can be annoying. sometimes. I have a fear.
when I'm walking past a car and I see a car seat, my brain always imagines there's a baby in there.
Yeah.
There'll be a blanket in there. And they're always. cars have been parked. And so often, if you see me and I walk a lot. Yeah.
So often you'll see me, sometimes stopped by a car staring in and I've gone back to check that someone hasn't left a baby in there. I have this fear, just like you said, of suddenly hearing a report, a baby was left. Because in New Zealand, there was a string of this happening. Oh, really? Of people, you know, you forget your child in the car.
Some of this has happened. So ever since I've read those stories, I'm always worried. So I'm often, I walk past a car and if you're watching me, I'll turn around and go back and look in to check if there's a baby in there. But then one time I did it in LA and someone sort of yelled at me because they thought I was casing out the car.
Exactly.
To steal. And I was like trying to explain, I'm checking. there's not a baby in there.
And then that does sound weird.
And I sounded weird as fuck.
What would you do if there was? Would you break the window?
I'd break the window. With a baby, I'd break one of the window. I think I'd break a window nearby. So we went on the glass to go on the baby.
Immediately?
What if they're just like, oh God. Oh, no, that's a really good question. No, I wouldn't. And this would go back to my, how would I actually react in a situation? I think I'd wait.
I'd see if the baby looked stressed out or sweaty. Mind you, babies, you can't tell, can you? Because they're manipulative. It's hard. Maybe sleeping too.
Sleeping or dead. Hard to tell, you know?
Well, you could, oh God, it's got so dark.
No, I would argue, you can't leave a baby in a car seat ever.
You're not supposed to ever. You're never supposed to.
I think if you've done that and I have walked by, David Farris walked by and has smashed all your windows, I think that's just something you have to deal with.
And you're just going to hold the baby?
I'd keep an eye on the baby, because then it looks like I'm stealing the baby.
Yeah, you stole the baby. I think what you would do, you just call 911.. 911.. There's no reason to take action.
Unless the baby's super stressed.
Well, yes. If something bad is happening, of course. But if you, maybe I think I would just stand there for like five full minutes or six minutes. And if no one is coming back, then I call 911 and I say like, there's a baby in this car. I've been standing and no adult has been in sight for five to 10 minutes.
Can you please come?
Yeah.
Maybe check if it's unlocked before you break the window.
Don't break, just call the police.
Luckily for me, there's never been a baby. I look in there and it's just an empty car seat with like a blanket or something in there. But that's my fear. Like you had that fear last night. Was it a crash?
I'm always like, is there a baby in that car? And ever since that idea has been in my head, I've never been able to undo it. And it's almost like a compulsion I have now.
That's really interesting.
I'm always checking for babies anywhere. I am, looking for babies. I'm looking right here now. Is there a baby? Someone's left.
I'm looking, I can't see any. Anyway, it's just me. We forget our things.
We do, we do. But would you have gone out in the middle of the night if you thought you heard a crash?
No, I'd go back to sleep.
You would?
I think I would. Disorientating as well, because you're half out of it, you know?
Exactly.
It depends how big the bang was.
Yeah. And I was like, it didn't sound that loud. And then I heard other cars driving by. So I thought, okay, there's other people in the world who would see it if it was bad.
And would do something. That were actually out near it.
I know, but I know that's a bad way to be. But then you get into that whole bystander effect.
And all those people driving by are like one of those other people who do something about it.
Ah.
Being human. It's tricky. What would Smokey Bear do? That's the question.
If it was on fire, Smokey Bear would be upset.
If there was a fire involved, he would be there immediately. No fire? He doesn't give a fuck.
That's fire prevention. I don't think he has a fire extinguisher.
That's what I'm saying. He'd be upset.
Oh, once it started, he doesn't care.
Yeah, he doesn't know what to do.
Well, he got burned up. So he should run the other way.
He has trauma as a reaction and just gets triggered.
Mama. OK. Here's part two of a deep dive into Smokey. What do you think it is about this bear that has captured not only America's kind of imagination, but the world? I mean, from New Zealand, I knew about Smokey, the Bear.
Well, probably his heartfelt story of surviving a fire and becoming this icon that was already in place. And then he became the living symbol of it. So it just all fell into place, I think, and made him a legend.
Are there any other icons in this part of the country that would come close to Smokey?
Billy the Kid.
He just said. Billy the Kid, a.k.a. Henry McCarty, a.k.a. William H. Bonney, an American outlaw from the Old West who killed about 21 men before he himself was killed in 1881, aged 21..
William H. Bonney. He killed 21 men. And he was just a kid. Billy the Kid.
Billy the Kid's appeared in countless films and books since, and he's the other American legend in these parts, but not the biggest legend, apparently.
If you go down 380, about 15 miles from here, that's where he escaped from this great escape, Billy the Kid. So yeah, he's a legend, New Mexico legend too, but he's from New York. So Smokey's actually a native New Mexican, so he surpasses Billy the Kid. He's the most famous native New Mexican.
He didn't survive for long after escaping, right? Or did he get away for a while?
He did get away for a while, but then Pat Garrett caught up to him and shot him, and he did die at a young age, I think around 21.. So Smokey lived longer than Billy the Kid, 26, and Billy, 21..
I guess the main difference was that America wanted Billy the Kid dead, while they desperately wanted to keep Smokey alive. His adopted family treated the bear like royalty. Ranger Ray Bell, his wife and kids, had their own name for Smokey.
Smokey's nickname was Hotfoot Teddy.
Was he a friendly bear? Was he violent? What was the deal? Would he eat you if you got too close?
He really liked...
Oh, Judy Bell. Judy Bell.
Who's Judy Bell?
Judy Bell is Ray Bell's daughter. He liked Judy and her mother better than he did the guys, because they bandaged him and stuff, and so he didn't like them, and he would always run and bite them and stuff and take off, and then he would play with their dog.
He was a wild animal. I mean, he would be dangerous as an adult, but as a little cub, you know, he got along with the ladies of the household and their pets.
I go and poke around the museum. There's a collection of posters and clippings and photos from ad campaigns. I noticed some photos of the Smokey hot air balloon, which had a headline-making crash back in 2004.. But he can't imagine what's about to happen.
There's Smokey out there.
Oh, he hit... He hit the tower. Footage on YouTube shows the hot air balloon getting snagged on a radio tower. The kids and pilots stuck hundreds of meters in the air, a bit like Smokey up his tree. Everyone on the ground's worried.
they'll just get electrocuted up there. Time's running out. The basket's weight is causing the balloon to tear even more. At any second, the three riders could come crashing down 600 feet to the ground. Eventually, the three of them end up climbing out of the basket and down the tower.
It takes them two hours. The balloon died that day. But Smokey, he lived on. Invincible. There are now so many iterations of Smokey.
There's a bear for everyone. Sometimes he looks sort of pathetic and small. Other places he looks sort of beat up. And then there's the cut, muscly, slightly sexual Smokey. Jeans, belts, bare chest, and a little cabinet.
Wendy shows me what appear to be hundreds of Smokey bear artifacts.
There's Ray Bell's filled binoculars, that we finally got those in here.
Do you have a favorite Smokey bear item? I do. If there was this horrible thing to say, but if there was a fire here, what would you rescue?
I would rescue these little booties. The little house slippers.
Little Smokey booties. This place has everything. So many things. I'd forgotten why I'd come here in the first place. To visit Smokey Bear's grave.
To pay tribute to America's greatest bear.
You should go out on our gardens, and that's where Smokey is buried. If you want to see his burial site. It's not a very long trail.
He had a coffin.
Yes, he had a coffin. There's a big boulder out back that has the plaque on it. Yeah, people drive by and they're like, oh, we didn't realize she were here and we didn't realize Smokey was a real bear. And I'm like, yes, he was a real bear.
I was the same. I'm one of those idiots that didn't even know that he was real.
We don't call you guys idiots. So.
Very kind. And so this idiot goes out the back onto a little path that leads to a very important grave. So it's quite a long walk to the grave, but I can see an American flag flying. So that seems very appropriate, for this American icon. Turns out that was just the resting place of the Smokey Bear hot air balloon.
I guess this is the build up to the real bear. And as I walk on, I see it. Yeah, this has got to be a Smokey Bear. And there's a carving out of wood of Smokey, a little Smokey Bear clinging to a tree. This is the resting place of the first living Smokey Bear.
In 1950, when Smokey was a tiny cub, wildfire burned his forest home. After 25 years, he was replaced by another orphaned black bear. Oh, he's replaced. Let's replace him with another bear. Smokey Bear, replaced, as we all are, at some point, I suppose.
And here's his final resting place. While he was alive, they'd tried to get Smokey to procreate with another bear. Goldie Bear. But no dice. Maybe he was still too traumatized from the fire.
Instead, they gave Smokey an orphaned cub. A fake son. And that ended up being the next Smokey. And so it goes on. Smokey Bear.
The perfect American commercial. The longest running PSA, birthed from World War II. The bear that outlived Billy the Kid and became known to hundreds of millions of people all over America. All over the planet. A cartoon who came to life to remind Americans that fire can be very bad.
And we, like Smokey, should try and avoid being burnt to death. Or burning anything else, to death, for that matter. Any parting words to the world about Smokey Bear? Any other fun facts, messages you'd like to get out there into the world?
Just come to Capitan, New Mexico and visit the park, and you can pay your respects to Smokey at his burial site.
I love those two because they genuinely were so pumped about the bear.
Yeah, it's very sweet.
It is a sweet story and there are lots of surprises in there. Like the fact they tried to breed him, but he wasn't having it. Didn't care.
I like that. He's like, I don't consent. Don't force me.
Don't force me to marry Goldie Bear.
That's not the bear for me. He didn't want an arranged marriage.
He didn't care about his legacy enough.
Didn't care about the legacy at all.
No ego.
Also, I do, the imagery, just from a graphic perspective, the imagery of Smokey changes so much. I mean, maybe that's where bear culture came from in the gay world. because he's in ripped tight jeans. He's got a bulge.
Wait, do we think Smokey is the...
I think he might be the origin of that particular part of gay culture because he's got his big bear chest. or whoever designed that version of Smokey was definitely referencing gay culture, because he's clearly just a ripped gay bear. It's kind of amazing. And in other places, he looks more meek. In other places, he's more of a cartoon character.
The imagery is just so specific and fascinating to me. Wow. Plus, he was a real bear that you can go and visit his gravesite.
That I will say, I also didn't know. I thought he was sort of just a character.
He was a little bear.
He was a little guy.
Yeah, little, burnt, little paws. Mom left him behind, never had children.
What an American story.
Has his own zip code.
I love that for him. This was really fun. It was kind of heavy on the death.
A lot of death. But I mean, that's the thing, right? That's part of life. That's part of life and also fire. That's why we need to watch out for fire.
As an American, watch out when you're lighting those fires out there in the forest.
Yeah.
What would Smokey do?
I left a candle on recently.
That's the thing. I have a phobia of leaving the house.
Me too.
The candle thing.
And then when it came true, that does not help.
How many candles do you burn in your house? Do you have a few going at once?
No, I normally just do one, sometimes two, depending on if I've made a chicken or a bolognese. And the whole house, it smells like food.
Do you have a scented candle or do you burn some sort of oil or something?
No, I'd have candles. I don't do oils or incense.
What flavor?
Oh, I have so many kinds. I love candles. I love a nice candle.
That's a good present for a Monica the Padman. It is.
Well, this was fun. Thank you for teaching us about Smokey.
Yeah, of course. If you're ever in New Mexico, look up the Smokey Museum. It's a really cute town. The rangers there are so kind and they're so lovely. And they're just there to educate you about Smokey, but also just educating you about bears in the wild and how we need to protect them.
So big fan. All right.
Well, like two or 3% more American.
Thank you. I think you too. I think we both became more American in understanding Smokey. Smokey bear.
Smokey bear.
Never Smokey that bear. Okay. Bye.
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