RuPaul: Blocking Out the Bullshit [VIDEO]

What is up, daddy gang, it is your founding father, Alex Cooper, would call her daddy.

Okay. RuPaul, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thanks. Thank you so much for being here. I am very, very excited to talk to you.

When I'm alone.

Period. Would you consider yourself high or low maintenance?

Oh, I am so low maintenance. I am so low maintenance. You would not believe it. How? Well, yes, I can take care of myself, and you know what, I open my own door, I take care of myself.

Being alone with yourself, being good with yourself and relying on yourself, it's kind of all you fucking need.

It really is.

Okay, let's talk about your memoir. Congratulations. The House of Hidden Meanings. I think that this book is incredible because you offer, like, a very personal look into your childhood. You offer a personal look into early relationships and just some of the biggest struggles that you've been through in your life.

No one would have been surprised that I became famous. and did I want to become famous? It wasn't even about did I want to, I knew it was my destiny. I felt that people had pointed me out from a very early age. that says, hey, who are you?

What's up?

Hey, you know what? Is that cashmere? Oh my God, I love cashmere. Cashmere, look the word cashmere. You know, where I just go on and just look like I'm being open, open, open.

Do you get exhausted?

It can exhaust me. I, you know, if I'm not working, I like to spend time alone to recharge my battery, but it can be exhausting. Now, I usually keep that hidden, tucked away, and I pretend like, oh my God, is that cashmere? And I'll do the thing. But the truth is I don't give a fuck about cashmere.

First of all, thank you for just being honest, because I think a lot of people actually will completely relate to what you're saying of like, it's fucking exhausting trying to walk into work, walk into rooms and having to put on a facade, because, at the end of the day, none of us are going to be completely the same when we walk into a room with other people than we are when we're alone. But there is a world of social currency that you need to somewhat engage in, especially if this is your career. It's like, you're right. You got to sit across from me right now and I'm sorry, but I'm going to ask you questions about this memoir.

Listen, I do enjoy cashmere from time to time. You know, I can do the thing, but what most people don't know about me is that base level thing, which is don't take any of this too seriously. Otherwise, you get yourself caught up in trouble and wars and, you know, getting your feelings hurt. I mean, it's a lot. It's a lot.

In the book, you talk a lot about your family dynamics. Can you kind of paint the picture of what your relationship was like with your mother growing up?

I loved my mother. I love the fact that she, too, she didn't believe the bullshit. She just didn't. And unfortunately for her, I think most of that came out of world weariness. And I think she didn't talk about her childhood very much or at all.

I also was just thinking I may be butchering this. I remember there was this one line that you wrote about her, basically saying something about, like, if I'm not paying their fucking taxes, why the fuck do I give a shit? what they're doing?

If they ain't paying your bills, pay them, bitches. No mind. That was my mother. And it's true. And it's, it's, it's, it's sort of, you know, the same philosophy is what other people think of me is none of my business.

I'm curious, though, when you talk about your mother in the book, as, you know, strong as she was like there. as a child, it seemed like there wasn't a lot of this like affection and like coming to you with love. Like, how do you think you internalize that as a child?

Yeah, well, first of all, I put her first and I understood what her pain was. So I guess I justified her not being that affectionate or that that that sort of idea of mothering that we all think of. She was not that. In adulthood, I understood that she probably could have been more loving. But at the time, I felt empathy for her because I knew that she was in so much pain.

You talk about this big moment where your mom finds out that your dad was cheating on her in the book. Can you kind of like talk to me about that day? Because it was a pretty intense day.

Well, he was. he'd always been, you know, out, seeing other women. But this with this one, I guess this time it just rubbed her the wrong way. And we will circle back around to the whole idea of cheating, too, because, you know, X-ray eyes on a situation is cheating really a thing? I mean, come on.

You think?

Oh, no, not think, darling. Not think. I know. for women, they're like, oh, no, he's going to be mine forever. Who the fuck are you fooling?

So everyone's cheating.

It's not cheating. If you say you're going to save all of this area for one person, you are cheating on yourself. You are cheating on yourself.

Should I not get married? I'm engaged.

You get married, do whatever you want. But why would you to the one person you love the most? Why would you put restrictions on them? if and your best friend in the whole wide world who you love more than anyone else? Why would you say, OK, if you're presented with a situation that is so fabulous and so lovely, I don't want you to do it.

That is like the. that is an interesting way to look at it. And I love it.

You can get mad at me all you want with this philosophy. I didn't come up with it. It's just my observation. And it's it's true. And I grew up, you know, I'm around.

Look away.

No, it's true. It's true. So, yeah, what happened with my mother and father, two people who should have never been together, you know, he parked the car in the garage of our house and she poured gasoline all over the car and said, motherfucker. I will light this bitch up. And I'm five years old.

When you look back at that moment, what does it make you feel for your younger self?

I feel I feel sad for my younger self. I absolutely do.

Let's talk about your relationship with your father, because I know that you wrote that you felt very abandoned by him in moments in your life. And I'm wondering if you can, kind of, just like, paint the picture of that dynamic and if there are specific memories that come up.

At the time, I felt abandoned by him. But through years and years, and years and years of therapy, I realized he had abandoned himself. It wasn't personal. It's like reading the comments on YouTube or whatever about yourself. It has nothing to do with me.

This is good.

One more time.

This is how fast I usually talk, so we can go super slow.

People really need to understand what I just said, which is that it had nothing to do with me. Of course, as a child, I thought he just doesn't like me. No, he didn't like himself, baby. It had nothing to do with you. Now, my ego wanted to make it about me, but no, no.

Let's party.

Let's boogie. Hey, we're going to rule the school. But he could not see me, and I spent so much time saying, Wait, you need joy? I'll give you some of my joy. You need a reminder?

There isn't, and I think it can take people a lifetime. Some people never get to that point. Some people engage in therapy, and then they're like, Oh, fuck, I don't want to do this. But it's like you have to open it up to actually see what's in there, to then get through it, to get on the other side. You're right.

That's right.

How did your relationship with your father inform the romantic relationships and men you ended up pursuing and choosing?

Well, obviously, I never got that validation from my father. So, of course, playing the role of Rue's father today is so and so. And it's like the exact replica. Charming, charismatic, good looking, but not available. So I would replay this thing over and over, relationship after relationship, until I ultimately met George, who was someone who chased me, chased me.

Even just to accept it, like even you saying, like, which we're going to get to, like when you met your husband, it must have been such a strange feeling to accept a love that you had never experienced. Your mother being distant, your father not showing up for you, to then have someone pursuing you, you're like, what the fuck is going on? Like, this feels good, but what's off? And so, in a strange way, a lot of the times, the thing we're used to, that is what we gravitate towards, because it's the norm, even if it's fucking toxic and even if it's unhealthy. And it's like, what the fuck?

Preach, bitch. Right? Preach. It's fucked.

Testify. You're like, I love this. And it's like, but you watched your father abuse your mother. So, as fucked up as it is, well, you never saw a healthy relationship. So how would you know not to be scared when someone is just being loving, being nice, coming to you, pursuing you?

What you're describing is an abused child who's taken away from abusive home, leaves there and longs to go back home, because that is what they know. And oppressed people take on the characteristic of their oppressor. And how do you break that cycle? You have to hit some type of rock bottom to get to that place. And it is the most difficult thing you will ever do in your entire life.

When you talk about these early relationships that you went through before you found your husband, you say it felt like you would absorb your parents' toxic behaviors and patterns. Fucking relatable. I understand you would like go for people that weren't available, but like, take me to a moment in a room with someone like, what were you putting up with? And then you would pause and be like, am I literally replicating what my fucking parents did? Like?

Well, the biggest offense is not trusting your instinct and your intuition about something. This is something they don't tell you. what getting old gives you, is that you learn to trust your intuition about a situation, a person. And when you are somewhat hypnotized by a person, like I was early 20s, all of that intuition, you push it to the side because you think this is exactly what I need. This is what I need.

It's just, it's so fucking hard to break the cycle. And I want to talk about your 20s. You became this well-known performer in the club scene. And I know you referenced like, I was dissociating most of my life until I got sober. And so let's talk about, when you weren't sober, taking the partying too far.

Yeah, well, listen, I have nowhere to go. I used for 30 years. I have nowhere to go. The first 20 were a blast. I had a great time.

We are bashing our heads against everything. And I agree with you. I think there's going to have to be a rebuild moment. I appreciate the way you just explained, though, like the drugs and the alcohol, and what they were for you, because I think people that haven't had hardship in their life are the people that are like, why don't you just leave the abusive relationship? Why don't you just leave?

Well, obviously, drugs and alcohol put you in situations that could be highly dangerous. And I was in those situations, really mostly, aside from the drugs, that was, with people that I was attracted to and trying to relive the situation, with my father. And I guess really with my mother too, you know, trying to find a situation that would feed my soul. I was looking for soul food. And I was looking for a way to fill that void when, ultimately, that void had to be filled by me.

You talk about how you for a while, were like quite uncomfortable with the idea of being wanted, being desired. What types of things were you doing to avoid being seen sexually?

Oh, listen, I didn't have to do anything to not be seen sexually. Here's the thing. You know, I've always been an oddball. I don't fit into anyone's description of what sexual – in the sexual hierarchy, right? The sexual hierarchy is, oh, he's a daddy.

George, George, George.

Let's talk about George, because it almost made me tear up when you teared up at the very beginning of this interview. You just mentioned his name, and you got teary-eyed. Yeah. And I don't know, like, what comes up for you when you're even just saying it.

He's lovely. He's a lovely person. He can be – he's grumpy. He's angry. He's all of those things, but he's lovely.

I mean, I think that's great, too, because you obviously love being alone. So someone who loves being alone so much, I'm very similar. I sit here and I perform all day, and then I need to get the fuck home. Don't fucking talk to me. Don't look at me.

Yeah.

I actually like you. What was it about him when you met him that you remember being like, this man is different, other than him pursuing you?

Well, it was the fact that he was kind and that I trusted him. I trusted him with my feelings. Because, you know, growing up in between two warring factors, my parents were so obsessed with their own psychodramas that it wasn't a safe place for me to feel nurtured. You mentioned that my father's weekends with my sister and I, he was meant to pick us up that morning, and we'd sit on the porch and wait for him all day. And when I say all day, I mean sitting on that porch all day.

But now, when you look back on saying that, how does that make you feel, when you reflect on him saying that to you?

It makes me feel like he wanted to be, not only be inside me, but he wanted to be a part of me. That level of intimacy I had never experienced before.

I want to go through that too, because it's a very, breaking up with someone that you then end up with is rare. I feel like it takes a really special bond. But just going back to what you just said, it's so inspiring to see, like, the trauma you went through and the partners you would choose that were replicating just what you watched with your mother and father. Then finding George, it's interesting to see, like, even the way you just spoke, like, you got calmer. It got more still.

Yeah, no, and don't trust me. I, you know, I, the beast still came out, you know, in our relationship and my distrust. But soon enough, you know, he would put me at ease. And, you know, it takes time. And, you know, even the time that we were apart, we both realized that there's no one I like more.

I think it's also incredible because sometimes, like we run away from things that make us feel good, depending on, again, our trauma of like, this can't be this good. And I think, with George, it's so clear that, like, although you were both going through things, which I do want to talk about, with addiction, like you knew at the core how you felt around this human being. And that is something that lasts forever. How someone makes you feel, you never shake that. And you did break up.

Well, it was mutual. What happened was we had this condo in Florida, in Miami, that George was redoing. And I learned that he had been addicted to crystal meth, which is the devil. So I put him into rehab and then brought him to a 12-step program. And I went with him to support him in this 12-step program, only to realize this was for me.

You were living your fame through George? What do you mean by that?

Well, at five, when I had dissociated and separated, became a camera on a jib, I realized I had not come back into my body. Because it was not safe, it didn't feel comfortable for me to feel my feelings firsthand. Got it. I could feel my feelings through him. You know, we'd be flying to Dusseldorf on Elton John's private jet, and he'd be like, oh my god, this is great.

Right, you're like looking for the outside validation of like, what is going on here? Like, oh, this is great, great, this is great. Sure, for sure, George. Interesting.

Yes. And it wasn't until I got sober that I was able to bring my feelings and my camera in through my own eyes.

But when you looked at George and you recognized he was addicted to crystal meth, that is also when you said, I also have an addiction problem.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'd always used. I started using when I was 10 years old. I started smoking weed when I was 10 years old. Listen, Alex, it was a different time.

Do you remember when you tried your first hard drug?

Yes. I was probably 13, and back then there was something called Red Devils, and I took a Red Devil pill. I don't know where I got it. I don't know.

What was it like? What is the facts?

I don't know. I don't remember if it was an upper or a downer. I really do not remember, but I do remember it was around that time. But I wasn't afraid of drugs. I never shot up or anything.

I have never done it. What does it feel like?

Well, I'll tell you. Okay.

But it's fucking incredible.

It's incredible, because it was the proof I had that this world is an illusion. That everything you think you know about solid objects or what people are is a lie. And I had that suspicion before I dropped acid. So when I dropped acid, it was like, yes, this is exactly. And the people who freak out, and I used to drop it, and some people would freak out.

So the minute you dropped acid, you were like, damn right. Yeah.

Here we go. It lifts the veil of the illusion, the fantasy, that we collectively agree to in our lives.

When you got so famous, and you're in New York, and people know who you are, were you at all ever paranoid that people were going to be like, RuPaul is fucked up, or there's something. You know what I mean? I do. I do.

I was downtown famous in my 20s, but I didn't get world famous until I was 32.

I'm curious, like, you're so famous, and how does that make you feel? Like.

You know, it's,

Because I just am curious, because, knowing that a lot of performers, I think, are introverts that become extroverts on stage when they're performing. Like, I know a lot of musicians that are like, oh my God, bitch, when I get on fucking stage, it's a complete alter ego. Like, that's not me. I go home and I'm like in my PJs and makeup off and not focused on, like, that persona. But do you ever have moments, or have you ever had a moment in your career where you've resented the persona you've built?

No, no, because I take that shit off. That's, it's a part of me, but it's not who I am. And thankfully, you know, drag is so brilliant because it's like a wink, wink, nudge, nudge at the facade that we were talking about, where, you know, that, you know, being on tripping, you know, breaks through. that. Drag is an extension of that wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

Right. Yeah. It's supposed to be fun. You're supposed to enjoy it. Absolutely.

They take stuff too seriously.

And they read into it too much. They're like, it's not that deep.

It's not. It's really not. You know?

I want to circle back just to conclude that conversation about George. Like the book kind of ends like you're not really together. Yeah. And I thought that was such an interesting stylistic choice of like, why, how did you decide to end it like that?

Because it was the real, the death of my old self. And this has been the rebirth of my life. This is a whole other book, this part, you know, in this business, if you get seven years in this business, you've done great. Fabulous. Great.

And I feel like, from what I've read and looked up, like you and George are pretty like notoriously private people together with your relationship. Like, how did you decide and did you talk to him about that you were going to write about these like pretty intimate details of your lives?

He doesn't give a shit.

Like, bitch, just go. Just write.

They were, you know, going on this book tour and people were saying, hey, we've got some seats set aside for George. Do you want to? He doesn't want to go to that. He doesn't care about that. Stop.

So refreshing, though.

He does not care.

But that must be nice for your life. Oh, yeah. To come home to someone that's literally like, I don't care. Yeah.

No, he doesn't give a shit about this stuff.

You're like, babe, guess what I did today? He's like, I care what you did, but I don't actually care who was in the room. You're like, Beyonce was there. He's like, huh?

He would care. Let's see.

Who would he care about?

He loves Aretha Franklin. Of course, she's dead.

Yes, she's dead. She can't walk in the room, but.

Actually, he went with me. I thank God he was with me. In 1995, he went with me to Detroit. I performed at Aretha Franklin's birthday party.

Oh, my God. He met her. Yes. He hasn't been stunned since 1995..

George hasn't lived since 1995.

I know. I'm trying to think who he would be starstruck by. He wouldn't be starstruck by anyone. This sounds weird. I'm trying to gain him points, but he is more starstruck by animals.

Why do we give a fuck about celebrities anymore? I want to know dogs, animals, the flowers, the insects. Let's go, George.

Don't get me wrong. He's got his faults. He's got his faults.

You mentioned drag. It is so incredible to have a show on its 16th season. That's kind of unheard of. There's very few shows in the world that go that long. Do you remember the beginning days?

I do.

What does it make you think to look at this empire that you've built? You just must be so proud.

I am very proud. I'm most proud of the fact that I'm a drag queen. I'm most proud of the contestants who have come through there, who are so lovely and so courageous to allow their stories to be told and to share those stories of courage with people around the world.

What do you think is the biggest misconception about drag?

Oh, I don't know. I stopped trying to figure out what people think or try to put any credence on what other people think. People are crazy. People are weird.

I remember you said that in the beginning of this interview, and I'm like, that feels like that's the episode. title. People are weird.

It's true. When you free yourself from that, my mother said, if they ain't paying your bills, pay them, bitches. No mind. Or what other people think of me is none of my business. When you free yourself of that, it leaves so much room for your own frequency to resonate and transmit through you.

We don't have time.

There's no time. And, you know, when I hit 30, I realized the biggest lesson I got when I turned 30 was I don't have to like everyone, and everyone doesn't have to like me.

Amen. Like, we're so fucked. Some people are so pressed, being like, they don't understand, but they don't like. Who fucking cares? Do you know you?

There you go.

You're going to exhaust yourself. You're not even going to know who you are by the end. if you're trying to appease every fucking person, especially with the internet. You got bitches in fucking Kansas saying you're a fucking loser. Who cares?

Yeah. And if you had x-ray eyes to see where that bitch in Kansas was, that bitch is in a basement with internet, but in a basement nonetheless.

They've got one. Their mother's basement. Their mother's basement, the mother's Wi-Fi, and they're in Keyword. Warrior. like, you're a fucking loser.

Fuck.

Can't take these bitches. Okay, you write in your book, you're born naked and the rest is drag. What do you mean by that?

So you are born naked. So that concept allows you to create whatever life you want. You are a co-creator with whatever the source is. I mean some people say God, some people say whatever. Whatever you choose to be the source, you are a co-creator with that.

It is a lot. But it's also – it is exciting if you look at it in the right way. Like we do have, for the most part, autonomy over ourselves.

Yeah. Sort of. Sort of, yeah.

I don't need to get into the laws going right now. Fuck yourselves. But, you know, it is exciting to know you can control yourself. And I think sometimes we get a little in the clouds and we start to look around us too much where it's like. why are you trying to be like that person, that person, that person?

It is hard. And, of course, all roads lead to. are you willing to be in this moment with yourself, which is a tall order, because the first thing you would recognize if you did, that is how much pain you're in. So, again, you have to walk through that fire, which is painful, to get to your true self. Because a lot of us, we sweep the emotions.

Fuck, it's big as fuck.

Wait, who ordered the Pellegrino?

What does the Pellegrino stand for in your life, Rue? What does it symbolize?

You literally have to go through all of the stuff that you put away before you can move forward. So that's why most people don't accept the challenge of creating the life they were meant to have. Most people go with plan A or plan B. And a lot of times, I think, because plan A or plan B doesn't really fit your needs, you will use drugs and alcohol to numb the pain. We're a culture of addicts.

When we're able to do that, I think the amount of peace and unity that will come from all different walks of life and all different backgrounds, we're so fucking far from that. But you're so right. It's like we're not taught to process, so we're angry and we're miserable, and we're anxious and we're insecure and we are lost. I appreciate you coming on today and just talking through this, because I think it's so inspiring for people listening. The way you talk about your memoir being almost like this other part of you that now is put to bed and there's now a complete new book.

It was fun. Did it get better? No, it's actually – it was a lot of fun, and I love what you're saying there, because the truth is it's about the crucifixion and the resurrection. And once you're able to be reborn into your higher self, that's when the party really begins. And that's why I feel like this – the party for me, when I got sober, really started.

It's incredible. Everyone, please go read it and congratulations to you because it is so cool to see. I love that you did a memoir where it stops at 1999, basically.

Something like 2000, something like that.

And now it's like what's next? Love it. RuPaul, thank you so much for coming on Color, Daddy. It truly was a pleasure.

Thank you.

Thank you.