Navigating Financial Anxiety and Uncertainty
2024-02-12 01:57:10
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships, never the fake kind. To my right, is Dr. John Deloney, and he'll be co-hosting it up with me for the next couple of hours. Hey, give us a call. The number's 888-825-5225, and we would love to take your calls, as it relates to your life, your money, whatever's going on in your world.
We want to talk about it, especially if it concerns your finances or your relationships. Like I said, that number's 888-825-5225, and we will look forward to talking to you. In the meantime, John, I gotta tell you, I'm really, really excited. I see here on my desk that the marriage and money, money and marriage getaway is back. It's back.
And you joined us last year. It was a party.
I did. It was amazing. I don't think we've ever done an event like that at Ramsey before. Never. It was the first of its kind, for sure.
First time ever. And it was so successful that it was a 50%—I've never seen anything like it—a 50% buyback, which means half of the audience there bought tickets for next year. Shoot. We had to invent new VIP tickets because they were all sold out. So this fall, October 24th through 26th, join me, Rachel Cruz, probably Jade— Come on, let me in.
You're in. And a whole gang of us for a weekend away in Nashville, Tennessee, right here on campus, to focus on your marriage. Two and a half days of teaching on communication, sex and intimacy, money. We cover everything.
I was shook, John. When I walked into the auditorium at one point, I don't blush easily, but I was like, this is kind of—.
Here's the deal. The promise is you won't leave without a question. If the only reason you won't get your question answered is if you don't ask it, right?
No holds barred.
Lots of Q&As. You and your spouse walk away with the tools you need to build a deeper connection and win with your marriage, your money, your kids, all of it. Platinum tickets are gone. Very few VIP tickets left, and after today's announcement, they're going to be gone, too. Here's the deal.
This is a great Valentine's present for your significant other. So if you're wondering what to get them for Valentine's Day, buy them tickets. Say we're going to Nashville in October. Everybody will win. It'll be good.
Let me just add this. If you can get the VIP tickets, because I was part of that VIP event, and let me just say you go to a private place that's secluded. that's amazing, and all the personalities are there, and it's like drinks and bourbon and wonderful appetizers. It's quite the situation.
Last year, we'll do different things, but this year, some different things, some same things. We threw a prom, which ended up getting off the rails.
I saw some things.
Got off the rails. I even started blushing, and I don't blush. But we have a musical guest show up. It's just a blast. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash events, ramsysolutions.com slash events.
Can't wait. All right. Let's hit up these phone lines, John. Let's go to Emily, who's in Boston, Massachusetts. What's going on, Emily?
I'm doing well. Thank you for your work, and thanks for taking my call.
I'm glad you're here. How can we help?
Well, my husband, I knew he had a drinking problem, but I didn't really know the extent of it. Anyway, I found out he had not been paying the mortgage, and he ended up going into a rehab,
so he's there. I have to figure out the finances, because I had let him be part of the finances.
Part of his assignment in the rehab is he had to tell me about any debts he had. I found out he had about $70,000 in personal loans and about $40,000 in credit card charges that I didn't know about.
I can't make minimum payments on those things. He does have a 401k, that is $300,000.. Someone told me I should have him ask for a hardship withdrawal to pay off these things.
I'm not ready to go to that yet.
Yeah, please don't do that. Please don't do that.
Anything else that you want to unpack before we dig in?
Yeah, I mean, I don't really have much. He's not out of there yet, so I don't really have much communication.
How long is the rehabilitation?
It's like a few more weeks.
Like two or six?
Yeah.
Okay.
I just need to figure out how to make a budget and how to try to manage things. I guess I'll be in charge of finances.
Let me let John jump in, because I think the money is going to be secondary to how you're going to cope with him being back from rehab.
Yeah, you still sound scorched earth. You still sound like you got home and your house is burned to the ground and you're looking around. How long has you been gone?
Since the beginning of the year.
Okay. How long, and I'm not asking this in an accusing way, I'm asking this just in a practical way. How long have you been? just kind of deer in headlights? Like everything feels so overwhelming, right?
Yeah. I mean, I was able to make the payments on the mortgage and rectify the mortgage, so I've stabilized things.
Okay. All right. So one key here is you're going to have to feel this. You're going to have to grieve this. Y'all are going to have to rebuild your marriage from ash, okay?
Everything that was before is going to be different now. And you feel that, but it's just important to say it out loud.
And it's not time for that yet. It's time for you to stand up as tall as you can, get some women in your life that you trust to walk with you. And you've got to, like you said, I'm not going to, I just got to figure out a budget. No, you are now trying to save your own life for a season. Okay?
Right. I am going to declare that I'm going to make a budget, and I'm going to follow it, and I'm going to find all of these debts. And I'm not going to borrow against our family's future. in order to clean up a bunch of nonsense. I'll call these debtors and say, I'll get to you when I get to you.
I have no money right now. And we're going to go for it, right? So I want you to hear that I'm standing up as tall as I can. And there is going to be an element of fake it till you make it. That's okay.
That's okay. But never again. are you going to put all of your debts, are you going to put all of your, I don't even know how the mortgage is getting paid, any of that kind of stuff. I'm never going to put that all in one person. Okay?
I want you to hang on the line. We're going to keep you over because I want to talk through some very tactical things. Jade's going to talk to you about some money, some very tactical money things. When we come back from the break, you're going to be standing six inches taller. Some of it, you're going to be faking it.
Some of it's going to be for real. Because we are going to reclaim your life. And when your husband gets out of rehab, he's going to be different. And so are you. We'll be right back.
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All right. You are listening to the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. This is John Deloney. And the last segment.
we were talking to a wonderful lady named Emily. She was telling us a little about her situation with a husband who has gone away at rehab. For alcoholism. And she is at home trying to make sense of what's going on with the money. Mortgage was behind.
But she got that up to date. But has found out that her husband has what looks like over $100,000 racked up in different personal loans and credit card loans and things like that. Emily, did I get it right? Did I leave anything out?
No, that's correct.
So John was telling you, you know, by the time this segment is over, we're going to make sure you're standing tall, feeling confident. I had a couple of questions to ask. Do you guys have kids?
Yes, four.
Did you say four?
Yes.
Oh, my goodness. What are their ages?
The oldest is 18 and the littlest is six.
Okay. And are you working outside of the home?
Yes.
What do you do?
I'm a nurse.
Okay. And how much income are you bringing in?
About $100,000..
And what did your husband bring in?
About the same, $100,000..
Did he lose his job?
No.
Okay. So he'll come back to that same salary?
Yes.
Okay. All right.
So, you know, I'm looking at this and I'm going, okay, you guys have a great income. I hate to say it like this, but, personal issues aside, financially, you guys have the ability to clean this mess up. And I see that in the numbers. It is going to take you getting on a budget, like John mentioned before. And I think that's something that you can do on your own.
at this point. John, I want you to chime in here, because at what point when you're dealing with a situation like this, when do you decide, okay, for the time being, you don't have access to the money or you have access to whatever you're bringing in. But at what point do you draw a clear line and say, I haven't been able to trust you financially. And so I'm going to have to take this until we decide. otherwise.
Talk to that.
Anytime, somebody's struggling with addiction, somebody's using or somebody's gambling, it's self-preservation. You have to. And so if I got out of rehab and I'd been gone on a 30-day treatment program and my wife was at home, I would be in favor of establishing a 90 or 120 days where I don't have access to things. Yeah. And that is doing two things.
One, letting my wife reestablish trust in me and me in her. And number two, making sure our house has footing, because you can come right back to the same temptations, the same life, the same busy four kids, the same chaos. A wife who's making six figures as a nurse and then I'm making six figures in my job. All that stuff comes rushing back at you. Right.
You get 30 days in solitude where you can breathe. You got counselors all day. You got a team. You got a group of people. It's a lot when you get out.
So I would definitely recommend them building in some, hey, I'm paying bills for the next three months, four months, five months, six months. And we're going to slowly reintegrate this thing together.
Emily, does that sound like something that the man you know would go along with?
I hope so. I'm not sure.
Let me ask you this. Are you, is your marriage going to survive this? Do you have any interest in still being married to this guy?
Yes. Yes, I'd like to give him a chance.
Okay. I think it's really important that you, like I said, sit with a counselor or with a couple of women and you verbalize out loud. But I want you to create a list of needs and a list of wants moving forward. That way. there's no guessing.
It's going to be clear as kind. You're going to lay out for this marriage to, for me to be invested in rebuilding this marriage from the floor up. Here's what must be true. You can't drink. You can't be violent in the home.
We will pay bills together every week. Right? Like whatever. you need to reestablish trust in your home. And, by the way, you're going to have to reestablish trust with Emily.
Fair? Yes. Yes. How much of this are you weighing on yourself that you can't believe that you let it get like this?
A lot. Okay. I want you to let that go.
Yeah. Okay. We're going to let that go. We learned a lesson and it's not going to happen again. That sound fair?
Yeah. Okay. Did we answer your questions? I want to make sure we got you all the help you need before you go.
Yeah. I think it'd be fair to say, you know, he would not have access to things. I guess I'll have to contact these different and say, I can't pay them. I don't know.
Well, let's talk about that a little bit. On a scale of one to 10, how confident do you feel with managing money or paying bills?
Maybe a three. Okay.
So, before we get off the call, I'm going to make sure you get set up with EveryDollar, which is our budgeting app. It's really intuitive. It's very easy to walk through. Your homework from me, John gave you some homework. My homework is I want you to download EveryDollar and I want you to splurge on the premium version because you can afford it.
And I want you to start plugging in those numbers tonight. I want you to start filling it in. It's going to have a place for you to list your income and when you get paid. And then, from there on, I want you to write out everything that your heart can think of, that. you might possibly spend money on.
The bills that you know about and even things that you hadn't. really, you know, that you don't do, you know, all the time. But it's like, well, we might spend money. It's my daughter's birthday coming up, or whatever it is. And I want you to fill out that budget until the number above gets to zero.
You're making a zero-based budget. And that's going to give you a lot of peace and just honestly, visibility to see where you guys' money is going. Because $200,000 is a lot of money to bring in. And then there's a section where you can list out the debts. Now, you told me that your husband racked up $70,000 in personal loans and $40,000 in credit cards.
My guess is there's probably some more debt laying around. I'm guessing, yes? Some cars? Some other things like that. So I want you to go through that.
And hey, Austin, will you set her up with customer care? I want to see about coaching. I want to see about Ramsey Plus. I want to give her the whole shaboodle because she needs it. She's been going through it.
And I want to make sure that she is set up.
That's tough, John. And one last thing, Emily.
Getting well on the back end of this might require selling your house. And y'all moving to an apartment for a season. It might require selling the cars. It might require selling the lake house or the boat, or whatever it's going to take to get squared up. Do not borrow from your 401k.
You're not there yet. You're not even close to there yet.
Be prepared to keep all of these things that your life revolved around. These vacations, these homes, these assets. Hold them very loosely, with an open hand. Because the goal here is a new marriage. The goal here is financial security.
The goal here is a new you. And you can't hold on to your old life and get something completely new.
That's a very, very good point. Ooh, that was heavy. That was a lot. Listen, I'm glad that you talked about this, John, because I say it a lot. When it comes to money and couples and, you know, here on the Ramsey show, we say all the time, like, combine your money.
Your money's got to be combined. And everybody's marriage situation is different. Obviously, in a healthy relationship, combining finances should be second nature. For some people, it's not. And if it's not, you have to work towards that.
But there are really, really real situations that people are encountering where both people in the relationship are not healthy. And so, because of that, the idea of combining finances with someone who has displayed addictions or financial infidelity, it's like, okay, lack of control. I need people to understand. there is those points where you do draw that line and say, hey, right now in this season, and I love that you kind of gave it a 90 to 120 days deal. Now, her husband was willing to go to rehab.
What about somebody who's like, listen, my spouse is just not there yet?
Then you have to take, you have to take, she's got four kids. She's got four kids. Right. I'm going to put my money in my own account, and we're not splitting, and I'm going to figure that out. And that's just, that's just, you got to survive.
Yeah. Right.
It's you got to survive. It goes back to, we tell people to be gazelle intense. That's not a way of life long term. That is a right now, because your family is at such risk that we want you to sprint. Don't go out to eat.
Don't do anything joyful. Just get out of debt. Very similar. This isn't long term. This isn't going to be good for your marriage long term.
This is about you surviving, and that person keeps taking your money out of your account, and your kids are at risk. You're at risk. I'm going to have my own account, my own money, my own stuff until my partner is safe and is well, and then we can build something together.
Such good advice. You're listening to The Ramsey Show.
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All right, you're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. This is John Deloney. Thanks for hanging out with us. If you want us to take your call, give us a call.
The number is 888-825-5225, and we will chop it up with you. Let's go directly to the phone lines where we've got Catherine in Knoxville, Tennessee. Let's see what's going on, Catherine.
Hi, I'm doing well. How are you?
We're doing great.
All right. So, my question for you guys is, my husband and I recently moved to Tennessee, and we just had our first baby in October.
Nice.
And we have some debt. A majority of it is student loans.
Okay.
He owes $58,000 for a student loan.
Fifty-eight?
Yes, five-eight.
You said that very strategically. Y'all both own, right?
Yes.
Y'all both own.
Yes, we both own it because we're married. There you go. Yeah, yeah.
What else you got?
So, we also have a little over $21,000.. I guess it would be considered consumer debt. I hope I'm saying that right.
Okay, what is it?
So, like our cars, I owe a little over $5,000 on my car.
Okay.
He owes a little over $6,000 on his. I have a loan with his mother, so there's zero interest in that for about $3,300..
Oh, there's interest.
Oh, there's interest, Tiffany. There's interest, all right. That's the highest interest loan you can have, Catherine.
How much is that loan?
$3,300..
Okay, we're paying that off. It might as well be $3.3 million.
And then $4,000 for the birth of my child.
Okay.
And $2,000 in credit card debt. So, I believe that equals right around $21,000 or so.
Okay, I'm with it.
All right. And we have $28,000 in our savings.
Oh, fantastic.
Okay, so.
Hold on, Jade. Before you go in, can I just say one thing? Catherine, I'm going to turn you over to Jade, because she's the expert here. I really want. How long have you and your husband been married?
We just had our first year anniversary in September. We've been together for five years.
Okay. Cool, cool, cool. So, I'll give you a little bit of a pass until the end of the day, okay? I want you and your husband, after this phone call, to be highly intentional about using the word ours and we. Okay.
Not his, mine, hers. This is ours.
It's called a vocab rehab.
Oh, I like that. Vocab rehab. And here's, the language. here matters, because resentment builds out of the, they did this. Okay.
When we did this, then we're going to solve it. Cool. But resentment is, he did this to me.
Yes, yes.
He took all these student loans out, even though he's got a job and he's making a bunch of money. He took all these loans out and it makes me scared. And, right? Instead of, nope. I married him.
I love him. We made a human together. We owe this money. We are going to pay this off. See the difference?
Absolutely. Totally.
Okay. All right. Same team. One team, one dream. Oh, Todd.
There you go. All right. Here we go.
Okay. So, you have some money in savings, which is great. $28,000.. Let's spend it. Like, let's spend it paying off some of this debt.
Specifically, mama-in-law, we're going to get that on film.
Today.
So, here's what I want you to do today. And then, I'm going to tell you what I'd like for you to do. Then I want you to tell me your objections to it and then I'll smooth it out for you. Number one, we're listing the debts from smallest to largest. That's called a debt snowball.
You list them from smallest to largest and you make minimum payments on everything. But with extra money, you put it towards the smallest debt. And in this case, you have lots of extra money lying around called savings. Because the way we teach, the first step in getting your finances together is to just put $1,000 aside. We call that baby step one.
And you've got that. And then the next step is to pay off your debt using the debt snowball method, which we're about to do right here. So, if we keep $1,000 aside, that leaves you with $27,000, that you can knock out this debt. And you basically listed it for me largest to smallest. So, I've got it written here smallest to largest.
So, let's pay off that credit card. that's $2,000.. This is what you're doing like today. Pay off that credit card, that's $2,000.. Then you're going to come in here and you're going to pay off mom-in-law, which is $3,300..
Then after that, you're going to come over and pay that deductible and clear that out. And you're done with baby. And then you can clear out these cars. Pay off both cars. That's crazy.
How much peace does that give you?
It gives me peace, but I'm not going to lie. I get worried about only having $1,000 with a new baby. I have a lot of fear when it comes to finances. I grew up very poor and my husband didn't necessarily grow up the same way. So, he doesn't have any anxiety when it comes to finances, and I'm like a total worrywart.
Do you know what's scarier, though?
What if something comes up?
And that's what I'm trying to help you with. If something comes up and you have no debt, then nothing's popping. Nothing's coming up. But if something comes up and you have lots of debt, then you're screwed. Because here's the thing.
Something comes up, let's assume the worst, because you're like, oh, we have a baby. What's the worst that could happen? You lose your jobs. $28,000 is not going to go very far. when you've got credit cards, a deductible, mom to pay back, two cars, that you're paying.
That's called stress. But the moment that you pay off that debt, think about how much money is going to be back in your hands because you're not making payments. You're going to stack up $28,000, lickety, split. And then, when the big bad wolf comes to blow your house down, you're going to have no debt and $28,000..
Yeah.
So, this is a short-term, this is you kind of having that short-term freak out just to get your cards in order.
You should feel nervous. Yeah. It's $1,000.. Okay.
The space between you and calamity is very, very thin.
Yeah.
It's supposed to feel that way. That's the fire that you're going to run through the rest of this student loan. mess with and be done forever.
Okay.
So that you're free. Yeah. Now, I grew up without a lot either. Okay? Okay.
My dad worked really hard, real, real, real hard, and things were really tight. And for a season, I put security in two things. Stuff and what I would call a pretend pocket of money. And that's what you've done. Yeah.
You got a house that you didn't have growing up. You got a husband with a job that you didn't have growing up. You got two cars, you didn't have growing up. And you've got this magical little pot of money that feels like it's yours. It is not yours.
You've already spent it. You spent it on a baby. You spent it on two cars. It's not yours. Just go ahead and give it away.
It's fake.
Yeah. You're right.
Now, what I'm going to tell you is peace on the other side. When you don't owe anybody anything and nobody can take anything from you. Yeah. That's a piece that those who struggled with less than growing up, they don't understand it until they get there, dude. And it's magic.
Totally.
How much do you and your husband make together?
So I stay at home with our son. And he brings and he works full time. And he makes about $55,000..
Okay.
A year. Cool.
And are you guys living on a budget?
Yes. So we just did our budget this month. And we're really trying to buckle down on it. We're not big spenders. We don't do a lot of extras.
I think the most where if we are spending is I tend to food hoard a little bit.
Me too.
Okay.
Me too. Me too. Same team.
I buy more than what we need in groceries.
So here's the thing. You know, you've got the money to clear out all these little ankle biter debts. And you've even got, you know, you'll have $3,000 or $4,000, $5,000 or so that you can throw onto the student loan. But where it's really going to require you buckling down and jumping into that mindset that John just talked about is when it comes to the student loan. Because the student loan is, you know, by the time you pay down a little of it, it's going to be $55,000 and you earn $55,000..
Yeah.
What kind of degree did he get, costing the same?
He had his degree in early childhood education, his bachelor's.
Is he a teacher?
He doesn't know. Okay. He actually works for a zoo.
Okay. Here's the deal.
He's going to have to get a second and probably a third job, making an additional $25,000 a year.
And you might need to pick up some work that you can do at home.
That's what I was going to bring up. So he also is a licensed tattoo artist. So he was working two jobs when we lived back in Connecticut. And now he is looking to get licensed in Tennessee and also work.
Look, whatever he can do to bring in some money, I always say, do whatever you can. And that includes you too. He's not the only one that can work extra. You've got some time in your day where you can pick up some extra cash. This is the Ramsey show.
You are listening to the Ramsey show. I am Jane Warshaw, your host, joined by Dr. John Deloney, your other host, author of building a non-anxious life. John, such a great book. One of my favorites.
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So like, share, subscribe. That is the ask. In the meantime, let's go to the phone lines. We got Laney in South Bend, Indiana. What's going on?
Hi. So my husband and I, we make about 55 at the end of the year. Okay. And we're on baby steps six. But we're just trying to figure out what we can do to cut expenses or do something in order to pay off our house quicker.
We just bought it in 2022.. And so we're kind of on fire to pay it off, but we have two kids and then another one on the way.
How much is the mortgage? What do you owe?
Mortgage, with everything included, like interest and everything like that, is like $12,500..
Okay. What's the payoff?
When do we pay it off? Or when are we wanting to pay it off?
What do you owe on it? Like, what do you owe on the loan? Oh, sorry.
We owe like $142,000, I want to say.
Cool, cool, cool. So what we have found is that when people walk through the baby steps, most people are able to pay off their mortgage within seven to ten years. is what we find. That's if they've walked our steps, they're on that 15-year fixed rate mortgage, they're going through it. So it's safe to assume that that's probably going to be you.
And in that case, it looks a lot like intentionality, a lot more so than it looks like, okay, we're getting super intense, gazelle. intense is the phrase we use here. You don't necessarily have to be like that on baby step six. So you and your husband really need to sit down and decide, okay, what are we willing to do here? Is it, you know, what are we willing to sacrifice in order to find those extra payments?
And what are we shooting for? Are we looking to double, double it? Are we looking to triple it? Like, have you guys said what it is that you're looking to do?
Yeah. So we wanted to be debt free before I turned 30.. So I turned 30, um, January of, uh, 2030.. So, um, but we do, we got a 30-year mortgage. So that's where kind of the funkiness comes on.
is that with 55 grand and, you know, a $1,200 mortgage.
Hey, why'd you get a 30-year? I'm going to put you on the fire for a minute because you've been walking.
Yeah, I know we weren't smart.
So we honestly, honestly,
the reality is we bought a house. We absolutely fell in love with, we knew we wanted a lot of kids. We're going to have three kids under the age of three and we bought a house that we couldn't afford. So we did a 30..
Lainey, good for you for just going ahead and calling that out, because so many people face that and they act like they had no choice in the matter. And I love that. you just owned it and said, Hey, we made a choice. It wasn't the best choice and we did it out of emotion. So many people can relate to that.
Now you're in it. So we do need to come up with a plan to get this paid off in the next six to seven years. If you want to do it, you know, in the timeframe that you said, correct.
Right.
What does your husband do for a living?
He's a teacher in the public schools.
Okay. That actually makes me happy. Here's why he can work in the evenings and on Saturdays and Sundays, and in all summer. Right. And it's not going to be fun.
I, like Jade, we teach people take your time and baby step six, slowly begin to love your life a little bit. You're not running for your life. I also will say in my private life and my personal life, I hate. with all my guts. I can't breathe when I owe somebody money.
It's a, it's a, it's a problem from my childhood.
And so my wife and I sat down and said, okay, we can't go, we can't go, gazelle intense, but we're going to go over the top. What would that mean? What do we have to, and we didn't go on vacations and we didn't buy furniture. We did. We didn't do a lot of stuff.
We drove the same used cars. I remember Dave looking at my truck and being like, Hey, I know what I pay you. And it was like, I know, man, I'm, I'm getting done with this stuff. And so it's just a matter of making a plan and saying, okay, if we want to be done in three years or four years, how much money would we have to make? It's just a math problem.
And then one or both of y'all has to go earn that money. And I wish it was more complicated than that. It's just not.
Well, just putting it into real numbers, partially real numbers. Cause I'm not using a mortgage mortgage calculator. I'm just off the top of my head. If you're more, if your loan is 142,000 and you split that up, you said you want to have it done by that birthday. That's six years.
If you split that up, you've got to be paying at least $24,000 a year on this. Yeah. And so you're making 55.. So, right off the bat, you know, if nothing changes,
Ain't going to make it.
We ain't going to make it because living on 25,000, listen, I don't know if it's possible with, with the family you have. I don't think that it is. So. to John's point, somebody or both of you guys are going to have to figure out a way to bring more money into the household. Have you guys had real conversations about that?
We have, though. One hard thing is that, you know, we will have three kids under three at the end of October. And so just thinking about, like me, starting a job, just to leave it for multiple months to, you know, have a newborn again. And then he absolutely, absolutely, absolutely loves his job.
And these are the things, listen, I'm not taking any of that away from you, but what I am saying is you called in here and said, I want to pay off this mortgage in the next six to seven years. So I won't be honest, part. Well, what I'm trying to, what I want to lay out for you is you may not be able to do all of that, but what you do get to decide is what you do get to do. You might not get to pay off the mortgage in seven years, but you might get to stay at home with three kids under three.
Or you may have three kids under three and you take a neighbor's kid. And for an extra 500 bucks a month or whatever, $8,000 a month, whatever childcare costs these days. And I want you to keep in mind in two years, you're going to have three kids, five and under.
And then, a year after that, you're going to have three kids, six and under. And it may be that three years, the kids six and under, and you don't owe anybody any money, because y'all just, just bit down on your mouthpiece and went in swinging and your husband worked. He got done teaching and they delivered pizzas or delivered Uber. And then on Saturdays and Sundays he drove and he missed his kids, but he had a long game in mind.
Or you extend your timeline and you're like, listen, we're going to pay this thing off in 10 years. And you don't sacrifice to that extent, because if you choose to go that route, you can, but you really don't need to. Like, I can't stress that enough.
I was going to say, I just can't stress that enough. You guys have worked hard to get to baby step six. I don't know what your debt payoff journey was, but here you are. And if you want to go pedal to the metal, you want to go balls to the wall. That's fine.
But I don't want you to hear me say that you have to do that in this phase.
Because right now we're on baby step six and we're still only spending like $250 on groceries.
Listen, I need y'all to live a little.
Enjoy your life too.
Loosen up the purse strings, mama.
Yeah. At least go on a date every once in a while.
You know, you've got to, your income is on the tougher side for the size that your family's going to be. I'm not going to lie about that. And so you do have to be very meticulous about your budget.
But I don't want you to feel like, and I'm not discarding what you said, John, if you guys decide, hey, we're going to put our heads together and.
Oh, that's just for my crazy family. That's not for everybody.
That's not for everybody. If you guys decide that, I'm not mad. I'm surely not mad at you, but I really want to give you permission to go. Okay. We made a mistake with this mortgage.
That wasn't right. Let's at least, let's at least agree to pay this like a 15 year.
Right. Yeah.
And I feel like that's the goal right now.
Yeah. That's the goal right now is to pay it off like a 15, but then.
Well, the goal was to pay it off like a 15, but then actually paid off like a five. Cool.
It's just a math problem.
More realistic.
Listen. Yeah.
But now I feel like I'm trying to be more realistic and like, okay, maybe we do just need to stick at the 15..
Absolutely.
With the life that we're loving.
Y'all are choosing loving.
You can do what you want to do when it comes to that. Start with the 15 year. As, start with paying it like a 15 year, see how it feels. And then, if you feel a little better, listen, we'll try to pay it like a 10 year, see how that feels. And then, if you feel so inclined, you can push the pedal to the metal a little bit more.
But again, it's about being intentional, not necessarily about being intense and baby. step. six. This is the Ramsey show.
Live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions. It's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships. I am your host, Jade Warshaw, joined by your other host, Dr. John Deloney. We're going to be taking your calls for the next couple of hours.
So give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225.. We'd be happy to chop it up with you. One of my favorite things about this show is it's caller driven. So people are calling in all the time.
John, telling us really their deepest and darkest secrets, because what I always find so interesting is people have a very hard time talking about money with their family, their friends, even their spouses, but they'll call into this show until, like two knuckleheads like us, their deepest, darkest money secrets, the mistakes that they've made with money. And we're here for it. Probably they feel comfortable talking about that, John, because we've made all the mistakes that you could possibly make with money. Like we've done it too. And so it's like, you're among friends who have done stupid things and had to pay the cost for it with their money.
And around here, we call that stupid tax. Like if you've ever done something that's just like, oh, what was I thinking? And now you have to pay the piper, so to speak. We call that stupid tax. And we want to hear that from you.
Matter of fact, if you have some stupid tax that you would like to share with us, you can always email us. The email is ask at Ramsey solutions.com and you can put stupid tax in the subject. But of course, we have to share some of ours, right, John?
What's your favorite one? I have,
the list is extensive. And so there's many to choose from.
Off the air. I heard her on the phone with their husband and they were just like, well, this one and this one time, this one time. It was awesome.
Probably the one that there's two that stands out. Probably the one is, my husband, when I met him, he had a Jeep. What's the, what's the, not Liberty, not Wrangler, Cherokee, Cherokee. Thank you. And he had finally paid it off and like made the final payment.
And he was like, yes, I finally paid off my Jeep. And like, within weeks we were at the car dealership to get a brand new Hummer H3 because we were like, yes, now we have a down payment to get loans again. And I think about that to this day of like, what were we thinking? We could have entered marriage and had a paid for car and been, but instead we got an H3 Hummer and paid $435 a month for it.
It wasn't even a cool car. Hey dude, I, I got out of college. I remember I had $17,500 in student loans, which back then was a million dollars. Now would be a dream,
right?
And I drove an 88 Tercel EZ hatchback. My friends called it the roller skate and I look like Fred Flintstone. It was so little, my body was so folded up in that thing. And the week I graduated, I went to a dealership and got the biggest, stupidest Texas compensation truck I could find. And it costs more than my student loans.
So it's one stroke of the pen. I doubled my debt load and I thought I won. I was like, how do you like,
how do you like them? apples America?
I got a truck that I can't afford. Oh man. And it was the stupidest. I just, ah, so embarrassing.
How long did it take before you were like, I can't,
I gotta pay this off. I couldn't breathe. It was so expensive. It was my buddy's dad, Randy Fox. He passed away a few years ago.
Randy was an accountant. And I remember I drove it over to show him how cool it was. And he just looked at me and goes, this is stupid. Like, he's a math guy. And just the way he looked at it, I was like, oh no, what have I done?
Stupid tax. I love it. Okay. In that same realm. I hate to say this, John, but I think we've all done the rooms to go.
You know, no payments until, you know, the year 20, 2030 or whatever. And you're like, all right. And in your mind, in that moment, you're like, that year will never come, because it's like 15 years later. Like you're like, this, year can never come.
That's a problem for future. Jade. We get it right now. We get it right now.
And I think we bought the ugliest furniture that you could buy. It was all dark brown and it all matched. You know what I mean? It's like you get the bed frame and the foot frame and the, the, the matching side tables and the, you know, the dresser and it all looks exactly the same, like no character. And, uh, I don't know what we paid for it, but I know that they had said, you know, no payments until, you know, you're old and gray.
We won.
And somehow those payments came due. And I was like, oh crap.
I didn't have that stupid tax. I had probably another segment called stupid marriage. Idiot. Uh, it was after my second book went number one and we're having dinner at the house. And my wife said, this is last year.
She's like, we've had a good couple of years. And I was like, yep.
Could we get rid of the, the headboard that you bought off Craigslist and spray painted 15 years ago? And I was like, it works great. And she's like, what if we, what if we bought real furniture? So we got our first bed.
That is so funny, but you did it the right way.
Hey, you know what? We waited 20 years.
So I'm such a catch, ladies.
I'm a catch.
Listen, that's better than the stupid tax. If you have stupid tax stories, be sure to let us know, ask at Ramsey solutions.com put stupid tax in the subject. We want to hear about those and talk about them on the show. Let's go to Trevor. He's in Savannah, Georgia, Trevor, you're on the line.
Hello. Excited to talk to y'all.
You too. What's going on?
Um, so I got a question. Um, I'll just lay out some facts for you. That way, you kind of know on a basis of where I come from. And, uh, then I'll shoot the question. So I am 25..
I have no debt right now. um, all my toys with cash paid for all of them. I'm not married. Um, I make 80,000 a year, uh, about, I'm commission based. So somewhere around there.
Okay. Anyway, um, I am looking, my next purchase would be a house. Um, I know that Dave always says, Mary, the house, not the interest rate. So my question is, uh, I know that y'all say 20% down, would you be okay? Or would it be okay to get something?
We're closer to, like maybe 10 or 12% down? that way. I can go ahead and start paying a mortgage on the house. Um, or should I wait, you know, two or three more years or so and save up the whole 20%. And then by five,
then, if you can afford it and it's less than 25, 25% or less of your take-home pay on a 15 year fixed rate, I'd probably go ahead and do it. Okay. I mean,
um,
I got. the range is between five and 20%. If you can get to 20, that's great. I don't know that I would delay it by three years to get there.
Yeah. And it may not take that long. I mean, I'm, I'm pretty good at saving. Um, I do have a thousand dollar like emergency fee and then a three to six month emergency fund set up. So, you know, if I bought an air condition, went out or whatever, I'm, I'm covered there.
Um, okay, cool.
So what are you looking at?
That's a pretty straightforward. Uh, so where I live, um, I live right around Savannah, um, somewhere around the 300,000 range.
Okay. And what percentage of your take-home is that going to end up being?
Um, it'd probably be about 1500 a month or so. I make about 45.. So that would be, uh, you know, right, around maybe 2,700, something like that, 20 or 27%, maybe 30%, something like that.
I'd want to listen. I'm not trying to split hairs, but try to get it to 25.. If you can. Yeah. You know, 26,, 27,.
I'm not too mad at, but if you know you're upwards of 30, I would, I would hold back, because unless you see your income going up to cover that 5% in the foreseeable future, listen, that 5%, you feel it and you're going to feel it in other areas of your budget, whether it be your spending budget, your fund money, it's going to shake out in some somewhere down the line, especially because you're in sales and you're on commission. I really want to make sure you meet those parameters. This is the Ramsey show.
This show is sponsored by better help. This is Deloney. And I'm always railing against social media, especially in the summer, because everyone uploads the highlight reels of their perfect bodies and perfect vacations and perfect kids. And I know they're not real. And I also know that I'm blessed beyond my wildest dreams, but I still find myself wishing my life was like other people's.
And, based on the data, I know this is happening to you too. Comparison is wired into us, but comparison can also become the thief of joy, because we can feel like we're not enough and begin acting and thinking in ways we would never think otherwise. when all gets to be too much. Think about contacting better help. Better help is a hundred percent online therapy staffed with licensed therapists.
It's convenient, flexible, and suited to fit your schedule. And, by the way, therapy isn't just for those who've experienced major trauma. It's for all of us who are ready to get out of the comparison spin cycle and find our own peace and joy in the life we're creating. Stop comparing and start focusing with better help. Visit better help.com slash Deloney today to get 10% off your first month.
That's better help. H E L P.com slash Deloney.
You're listening to the Ramsey show. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. Your other host is Dr. John Deloney. We are taking your calls all hour long.
Honestly, for the next couple hours, we'll talk about your life, your money, your relationships, whatever it is. You can give us a call. The number is triple eight, eight to five, five, two to five. We got Tiffany and chat town. What's going on?
Tiffany from Chattanooga.
Chattanooga. Yeah.
We do call it. I know.
I know. I'm glad.
I'm glad I got a reaction from you.
I've never heard that in my life. What John? Everyone in this room is now dumber for, I'm just kidding. Go ahead.
Chat town,
chat town.
How's it going guys?
We're doing good.
All right. So my question is now I have been married. I'm 42.. I've been married for 23 years. Nice.
Um, my husband and I, yeah, we got married really young. My best friend, the whole entire world. So if he is listening, I am not dogging you. Oh gosh.
Oh, this is going to be awesome.
The caveat. What's going on?
My question is, so we are, um, preparing my youngest, or yes, or our youngest to, um, go on and, and move out. She's about to graduate. She's got a plan. We're working on that. So this is literally our first time being by ourselves.
We got married with a kid, so we have never been by ourselves. So I'm trying to figure out, I would like to be financially free, so we can have more time and all that, but he is not on the same page with me on what to do with our money. So I'm trying to figure out how to convince him to start your guys's program.
interesting. Um, okay. So just making sure this question is not really about the child going off to school. This is about you wanting to live your best life once your kids are out of the house. Is that right?
Yes. Okay. Yes. So give me a picture of what life looks like now. financially.
I mean, are you guys combining the money or are you on a budget? Tell me more.
Okay. So literally just started listening to you guys. I binge mom at work. Don't tell anybody. I just started listening.
Don't tell my boss. Um, but I just started listening to you guys. And so we really haven't started any of the program whatsoever. Okay. Um, my husband is, um, he has owns his own business.
So that kind of money is separated, but I have access. Like we have access to each of our accounts, both of us, but his money for his business is separated.
What about the money that he pays himself in payroll? Does that go into a combined account or does that stay on his side?
no, it just stays on his side, but I can, like, I can, pull money. I mean, we don't, we don't separate like that. It's just that kind of money. It's just in a different account.
Okay. So I would say that you guys probably, it sounds like the way it is. You probably could combine finances for real, for real. And it'd be pretty painless because, by definition, I don't really feel like you're combined right now, even though it seems like there's kind of a, a good amount of openness. I'd like for it to be like, there's no veil.
You know what I'm saying? Like. it's just one account, um, or one or two accounts that you guys are both on. It's not your account over here and his account over there, but you can kind of creep over there if you want to. So that, that would probably be the first step is I'd sit down tonight.
And say, you know, Bob, I love you. And I think that I'd love to start really combining our money. I know that we have access into each other's accounts, but I would love if we just had it in one place and we can see it together. And while I'm on this subject, I listened to some crazy folks on the radio and they said that we should get a budget. And I'd love to start budgeting with you and kind of just let them know what's on your heart and let them know that you're really excited about this.
And, more than that, tell them why you're excited about it. And I think that's going to be a good introduction into the conversation. Cause, if somebody comes to me, John, and says, I want you to be a bigger part of my life. And financially, I'd love if we could share money together and I can share mine with you and you can share yours with me. And I love if we could sit down and like plan our month together and like all the fun things that we want to do with money and what we want to accomplish.
for me, that's a love language. Like that's a compliment. Now, I don't know your husband. I called him Bob. What's his name?
His name is Nick.
Okay. I don't know, you know what, what gets Nick's wheels turning, but you know, put it in a way that is going to be appealing to him as well.
So I, I, I'm going to overly gender this. And so, uh, everybody, be nice to me in the, in the internets, on the internets. Um, I hear often a wife, women, saying, I would love to be a part of your life. coming at it from the joy angle. How can, how can I be, how can we do more of this thing called marriage together?
I often hear men respond in that way to, I've already got this figured out. I'm fine.
They want to be lone wolves.
That's right. And so where I've seen women be successful, wives be successful. Tiffany is saying, Hey, our youngest is leaving the house. I want to go spend a half day together and dream about what could be. And when he says, well, you know, I've been really busy that the next answer is because I'm scared to death to continue living like we are right now.
And that has a way of stopping people in their tracks. Cause no man, no husband worth one ounce of salt wants his wife scared in her own home. Right. And so there's something about saying, I feel out of control. I feel like we don't know where we're going.
I feel like we're going to wake up in 10 years and we're going to be in this exact spot. And I don't want that. Will you join me?
Yeah, that's kind of, cause. I like laid out everything already. I have a whiteboard. I have all of our amounts out of what we owe and everything like that. And then just the other day, like this was when it hit me that he was just not on the same page.
He said, I want to sell the trailer. And when I sell a trailer, I want to put it into some stock. Oh, it was like, I thought we were paying bills.
So let me ask you. Well,
I,
yeah. Foundationally, who changed? Did you change or have you always like, did you guys start out on a path together? That is like, we believe in stocks and we believe in debt and we believe in, or have you always kind of been like, I don't know how I feel about this and just not talked about it. Like, I do want to know a little bit more of that, because there is something in a relationship where it's like, wait a minute, I thought we were doing this together.
And then one person truly like up and changes and doesn't want it. So.
I don't think either one of us changed. I think at this point, like I said, we got married really young and we had a financial struggle our whole entire life. This is the first time that I felt, though. Yes, I have debt and I know you will disagree, but this is the first time I felt like we could actually make a step forward in our financial freedom, where before we were always just drowning. Just trying to stay.
Yeah.
Yeah. Just trying to survive.
So, Tiffany, here's what you've had. Yeah. You've had a husband that's been ashamed to look his wife in the eyes for most of your marriage.
Cause he's a small business owner that hasn't been able to create the world that he wanted to create. And he knew one, one play. He had one tool in his toolkit and that was hit the gas even harder. and don't take your foot off. And y'all have scratched and clawed and he's got there and now he's going to try to catch it up by, by putting it all on red seven, which is playing stocks.
Fair.
Yes. Yep.
And this is when you sit down and say, I'm scared to death.
Right.
So then let's look at, you said, you have it all whiteboarded out.
What, tell me about what's on the whiteboard. I want to know the numbers real quick. I want to know, give me in a nutshell, how much debt you have to pay off. You don't have to list it all out cause we don't have a ton of time, but I want to know what you guys are in.
Okay. So we bring in about a hundred thousand, 70,000 is mine. And then the rest is his being a small business owner. He, you know, it's different, but that's right. And then we, we owe about $38,000 in debt, minus the mortgage.
So it does not include the mortgage.
And when you guys sell this trailer, what do you think it'll bring realistically? Or is that 38 K in the trailer?
No, no, no, no, no, it's not the trailer. It's we own the trailer. The trailer probably bring in, I think maybe 5,000..
Okay. So, basically, what you're trying to get him to see is that that money could be better spent. And you guys really aren't far away from freedom. You know, you pay off, you sell that trailer. You got 30, you know, $33,000 to pay off with a hundred thousand dollar income.
You can pay that off lickety split, save yourselves up three to six months of expenses. And you truly are home free. It's not like you guys have this seven year path in front of you. This can get cleaned up in a year or less.
Especially if he goes and make some more money.
Exactly. So, have a, have a sit down, talk with them, talk about how you feel. Change this thing. This is the Ramsey show.
All right. You're listening to the Ramsey show, John Deloney. to my right. I have an article on my desk. That is honestly pretty crazy.
It was an email before it was. You know, before it was sitting here on the desk and I looked at the email earlier today and it said garbage deals, dealership puts customers in cars with $3,000 a month. Car payments. That's wiggity, wiggity,
wiggity whack. Like that's crazy.
That's nuts. Okay. It says. a New York fed survey published earlier this week indicated that in the fourth quarter of 2023, auto loan delinquencies reached levels, not seen since right after the great recession more than a decade ago. So we're hitting historical numbers here.
It says delinquency transaction rates have pushed past pre pandemic levels.
And we remember this, though. We remember during, during the pandemic, people were buying used cars on like 72 month notes that were like, I have a buddy. And if you ask him, he's one of my oldest friends. Like what do you do for a living? He says, I make bad car loans.
And even he said, dude, these loans are like people are asking for our absolute madness.
I am just, I I'm,
I'm really shocked. And they're coming home to roost now, but then it's getting worse. It's getting worse, man.
Wow. It says. an Edmund report from last year showed the percentage of drivers with plus $1,000 monthly payments jumped to an all time high. The reason is that the average amount financed for a new vehicle is around $40,000.. Folks are putting $40,000 cars.
That's the average. Hold on.
17% of Americans.
Yeah. That's crazy.
Have a thousand dollar monthly car payment.
Yeah. When, listen, look, John, a while back, we say, and that's for one car thousand dollars. That's just one car. Most, most households are a two car household. Okay.
That's,
ah, that is groceries.
It's a lot.
And eating out, or a car that at the most, at the most, you drive for what? Two hours, maybe. And it sits in your driveway or your garage or your parking lot where you.
work, the parking garage, folks can't even see it. Cause it's dark in there. And that's a thousand dollars.
I should have read this more closely before I looked at it.
Yeah. It's nuts. So he says,
this episode is sponsored by preparation age. Cause. I got the hemorrhoids James, a thousand dollars.
All right. It gets worse. It's it, it goes down. Listen, he says, uh, this leads us to two posts that were made by, a certain Instagram handle. It says they shared what appeared to be an auto dealer, sharing several images online of new customers, financing vehicles with payments that are as much as monthly mortgage payments.
So in other words, these people are in this Instagram post and they're excited about the fact. like, you know, God came through when I got me, my deal, you know,
and it's always that too. Like man, God heard my prayer.
Yeah. It was a blessing.
And now I have a $2,550 monthly payment.
It says one person purchased a 2023.. It's on the screen. One person purchased a 2023 Tahoe with a $2,550 a month payment on an 84 month term. That's almost a decade.
That's a depreciating asset.
It will be another person. That was just one guy. Another person bought a 2023 Sierra. Oh my gosh. 2,500 Denali with a $3,000 a month payment.
And he was locked in to a 96 month. Look, there's the prayer hands. Why do they got to put, listen, listen, and look me in my eye. God didn't have nothing to do with that. You did that.
That is not a blessing. Hey,
can we just say Tahoe? I'd love to have Tahoe, a brand new Sierra Denali. I love that car.
And I can't imagine signing up for 96 month term.
And here's the thing, John,
I depreciating asset.
I can't even get into the people that would sign for this. Like the guys in the, in the photos or whoever there, their level of financial literacy is clearly very, very low. And they need shows like the Ramsey show. Yeah. But whoever sold them this, I have questions about your integrity and who you are as a person.
And you need King Coleman because you are not doing work. That matters. You're doing work, work that causes pain. I mean, this is horrible.
Just because you can get something doesn't mean you can, you should get it. That's really the lesson here. Just because you can get it. Doesn't mean it's good. Doesn't mean it was a blessing.
It makes me think of that verse and all you're getting, get understanding and get wisdom. This is not wise. And just going out to get things because you can get it, because you can purchase. And on the other side, just making the sale because you can make it and because they're willing to sign. Each of those, there's responsibility on both sides of that scale.
The consumer has a responsibility and the, the person selling on the other end has a responsibility to society to do better.
It's a, it's a greater good $3,000 a month.
Let's do some math. So the guy who's doing $3,000 a month on a 96 year term, that let's do a little bit of a calculation here and see what that equivalates to over time. If he invested that money, I'm sick, I'm sick. It's $400,000.. If he invested that money over the same term,
instead of maybe 400 grand,
$400,000..
So he's going to be sitting on a truck that's worth about 20 to 25% of what he bought it for in 96 months, versus the, the other side of that. Yeah.
It for eight years. And here's what I did for people checking my math. I did 0% start. Like he has no money to start. I did that.
He's investing it for eight years at an 8% return, 8%, fine, whatever. It's not that great compounding monthly. So he's paying $3,000 in a month. And yeah, 4,000, $400,000 in that range. Wow.
That's what he's giving up to be able to post on Instagram and say, look at the car. I got, I got my Sierra 2,500, Denali.
That's crazy.
Congratulations, man. You just, you just tied a boat anchor around your leg and you just jumped off the bridge, man.
And it's just going down. because we know new cars, they take that first hit. They, they lose 40 to 60% of their value in those first three to four years, is critical. They lose it so quickly. And instead of that, he's, he's good, but he's got his car though.
I, I'm telling you, man, the thousand dollars tripped me out. This, these make me sick to my stomach.
Yeah, you can't.
Here's what people said. Let's hear what other people said on Twitter. This is what people responded. They said $288,000 for a truck. That will depreciate and a one fifth to one fifth of that long before it's paid off.
Yeah, absolutely. I don't know where he got the 2088.. I don't know where he got that dollar amount from. It's going to be more than that. This guy said, dude could be almost a third of the way through a 30 year mortgage on an expensive house.
When he pays off his truck, it is a mortgage. $400,000 is what he's sacrificing.
And here's the part that's making me sick to my stomach is people watch TV and they watch Tik Tok and they watch Instagram and they have this vision, and maybe they know one guy at their church or one guy at their office or two guys at their office. And they know that that person's rich, whatever rich means, and that that person who's rich has car X, Y, or Z. And what they don't know is behind closed doors, the average millionaire, the number one car driven by millionaires is a, is a Toyota. It's a Toyota. Wow.
And this is how wealth transfer doesn't happen or does happen, is somebody will end up taking this money and they're a millionaire and they're going to buy a used Tundra. They're going to buy a used Camry, a used Cadillac, and they're going to write a check for it. And then they're going to invest $3,000 a month and make 400 grand. And then the other side, someone's going to say, I got that same car. yet.
They're going to bury themselves. They're going to bury their financial future and the financial future of those who love them. And those who come after them with this type of nonsense.
And this is why we tell you guys, like and share the show. People, it's financial literacy at its finest. People need it. They don't know.
This is family tree stuff. I don't know.
This is ruining his family tree. He doesn't even know it. He thinks he's gotten a good deal. He's so excited. He's sharing it on social media.
And we see that when people need to know this information, like and share the show so that people can get what we're teaching, which is knowledge. And we all know that knowledge is power.
All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day, find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at Ramsey solutions.com slash agent, Ramsey solutions.com slash agent.
You're listening to the Ramsey show. I'm Jade Warshaw. This is Dr. John Deloney, and we are going to give you real talk about your life and your money and your relationships. So give us a call.
The number is 888-825-5225.. Just be prepared, because we're going to keep it real. Let's go to Ginny. who's in white Plains, New York. What's going on, Ginny?
Hi, John. Hi, Jade. Um, I have a very, very, very big, big problem. Um, I lost my, I'm 58 year old, single mom of three grown boys. I lost, um, I had a trusted friend, um, watching, or my money.
And, we lost it all 600, 400,000 in a brokerage firm. And he went into my retirement fund. So it's over 600,000 that I lost. Um, obviously I'm devastated. Um, but thank you, Dr.
John, that I've been listening to you for a long time. So I've been trying my best. I'm in like trauma therapy and I'm a nurse. Um, I make around $80,000 a year. I took a second job and I'm bringing in an extra $4,000..
A month. Um, I own a home, that I have, $400,000 in equity, and I'm just not sure what the next step is for investing. I'm, I could sell the house. Should I sell the house? Because I always led my life, you know, correctly, no credit card debt.
I paid for my children's college and now this is where I'm stuck.
All right. Um,
Jeannie, I hate this for you. You trusted a close friend, huh?
Yes.
Was that friend? Um, like, so what my, one of my college roommates is. my smart investor pro manages my money, right? So I, I'm in the same boat. I'm going to call him right after the show.
Just kidding. I know he's doing great, but, um,
it, did your friend like make stupid bets, or was your friend in charge of a mutual fund that just went belly up?
You think he was trying to make a lot of money and he was day trading, basically day trading, hundreds of thousands of dollars day trading. And then he lost all of that. He'd want to tell me it was giving me fake statements. And,
he's a criminal. Your friend is a criminal fraud.
He is. And I've gone, we've gone to the white plank, you know, violent charges. And, but then he went outside of the brokerage firm to my retirement account. And now I'm having all these tax implications.
he robbed you. He stole from you, you know? Yeah. So we're going to deal with that, um, on a separate issue. Okay.
Here's the big one. Have you forgiven Jeannie? yet? Because until you do that, you're not going anywhere. You're going to sit right in the middle of this.
You have to.
I think I will be able to, but not yet.
How fresh is this?
December 18th.
Ooh, child.
You're,
you're going to have to, okay. Let's just be, let's just cut right to it. Be real, honest. How much of this do you know in your gut? Things have been kind of shady for a while, or were you just caught flat off guard?
Caught flat off guard.
Okay. Then you got to forgive yourself. Listen, we, we have in our, in our culture, we have like a process for when a friend stabbed us in the back. We don't have a good psychology for when a friend stabs us right in the face. And that's what happened to you.
They looked you in the eye. They didn't do anything conniving behind your back. He stared you down and you lost everything.
Yeah. When he went into my retirement fund, he had like paper checks, you know, hard copy checks cut and took it out of my mailbox.
Yeah. He stole.
I would never take out.
He's a criminal. He's a crook. Listen, you have to set that down. Here's why. Your emotional reactivity is going to color what you do next.
Okay.
And you have to go into this next season as clear eyed as you can be. What does that mean? Setting down the rage, setting down the anger, setting down your own self-hatred, setting all that crap down so that you can make a true plan moving forward.
I will listen to you.
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