Meghan Trainor

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax, Randall Shepard. I'm joined by Lily Padman. Hi. Good evening to you.

Hello there.

Good morning to you is what I meant. It's, in reality, it's neither evening or morning.

It's 2.

I'm telling, I'm telling.

Which is 6.

5.

What'd you just say? Oh, it's two. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry. Well, my fast math sucks today.

Yeah, you already tried a fast math. that blundered.

I did. It was a story that happened 2011.. The person's currently 30, and I said 19.. Of course, there's 17 at the time of the story.

I'm so sorry that happened to you.

I'll be beating myself up all night over that. I hope you'll rest assured. Today's guest is an award-winning singer and songwriter and television personality, Meghan Trainor, Delta's very first favorite musician and song. She used to sing, all about that bass, about that bass, no twobble. Yeah, she sure did.

♪ He's an armchair explorer ♪.

♪ He's an armchair explorer ♪.

♪ He's an armchair explorer ♪.

Welcome.

Thanks for coming. Strong hug. All right. You're so fit.

Are those the pants you wore to the concert?

No.

Oh, they're also pink.

They were much pinker. Oh, wow. These are salmon, no?

Yeah, those are salmon.

They're very Nantucket Reds. Ooh.

I cannot wait to tell you about Nantucket. Look at your water bottle.

Yeah, she blinged out. I love her. It was for my second C-section. Oh, wow.

You wanted to ventize the C-section by having that by your side, or this was a reward for your C-section?

It was a gift.

It was like, here's for the hospital stay, and I got more compliments on this bejeweled water bottle than my baby.

And who gave it to you?

JoJo Siwa's mother.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Wow.

They bejewel everything.

I'm really new to this whole Stanley thing. Huge deal. Only because there's young people in my life do I even know about it, but I'm really behind the curve. So an item like this, that's so bejeweled, this is an expensive item, no? What would you pay for that, Monica?

I mean, I bet, JoJo Siwa's mother bejeweled it herself.

Really? Oh yeah, they don't sell them like this.

Yeah, she did that. That must have taken an eternity.

Six to seven weeks.

Oh my God. Almost as long as it took you to incubate the baby.

Yeah, I usually have a gallon around with me because I drink a gallon a day, or a half gallon if I'm feeling exhausted. But then quick trips like this, I was like, we need a smaller thing.

So have you figured out how many of these Stanleys equals a gallon? Three?

Like three, yeah. I'm on two right now.

Will you have to go potty a lot while we're here?

I peed here. Oh, you already did? He was like, I'll step out. I was like, don't need to. Oh, my God.

How long dating a boy before you feel comfortable with a toot?

With a toot? Yeah. That took me a minute. A long time. Yeah, that's a while.

It took you a week? You guys are the worst. We were really like, we were Velcro.

Day one, I was like, you're never gonna leave me. Day six, I was like, we're in love.

Yeah.

And then, month one, I wrote our wedding song. That was a walk down the aisle too. Yeah, we're gross.

I'm so jealous. Well, and it's hopeful.

It's hopeful, it's a real thing.

But also, what I'm, I guess, proud of you of is you felt all those ways within six days, but you did date for a couple of years before you got married.

We like, stretched out as long as we could to a year and a half.

Just for appearances.

Yeah, just to make everyone else happy. I literally called my mom and was like, when can he propose where people won't judge us? And she was like, give it another few months. And I was like, no.

Okay, now, for sure, you'll be the first person I ever met that grew up on Nantucket. Really? Yes, and let me bring you up to speed. I had no idea what was happening in that whole region of the world. But last summer, we went on vacation to Martha's Vineyard, which is right down the coast.

It's the other island.

Is there a rivalry?

Enemies, yeah.

Really?

Oh, yeah. And the sports, oh my God.

Oh, that super competitive island sports league. We all lost. Yeah, I'm sure. Tell me what the Nantuckety people think about the Martha Vineyardy people. I was in Martha's Vineyard and I got to hear kind of their version.

So are they. Lady Gaga has a house there.

Okay, we're getting into it.

They filmed Jaws there.

But Jaws isn't bougie.

But it's like fiends. It's iconic. It's iconic.

It is very iconic. He had the Kennedy's.

When people ask me where I'm from, I'm like, you ever seen Jaws? That's where I'm from. And I clump it all together. And when I really don't know, I'm like, Cape Cod potato chips.

Oh, everyone knows that. You hit them with Cape Cod potato chips. Yeah, woods, pile, fairy, what is it? Woods? I don't know.

Ew, that sounds like a.

Well, that's the name.

Gray Lady, I think, is what it's called.

For the Nantucket Fairy?

Yeah, something like that.

Okay. That's kind of funny. I think Robbie will tell me, but it's called like Woods Hole or Woods Pile.

or Pile of Wood. That makes sense. Yeah.

Okay, so what did the Nantuckety people say? And mind you, it has evolved since you were born.

I'm 30 now, but they had more stuff than us. They were bigger. So when we went to their schools to play games, they had nicer, better, bigger things. And I was like, we're on a tiny little island. There's less of us.

Okay, so you had a underdog.

We were like, we're gonna stomp your grapes. Sure, sure.

Oh, that's so fancy to say stomp your grapes. I know, we were like,

we're gonna make wine with you.

Also, the notion that those two places would have rivals is pretty adorable.

It's like, aw, you two. We find rivalries everywhere.

No one can just get along, even in Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard.

And I've had people come up to me, they're like, I'm from Martha's Vineyard, so like, watch out. And I'm like, what? I got a zoo. I was like, sir.

That's their way of trying to talk to you.

But it has become way more expensive since you grew up there, no?

Probably. I remember, gas was like $6 when I last saw it.

And the houses are quite nice.

I don't think. I'm trying to get away from that side of the world so much that I love these modern, chic houses in LA. I didn't know it was possible because growing up there, there's rules. You can't build a certain way. You have to have shingles.

And the wood shake exterior.

Yeah, and I'm like, there are ghosts here.

And that's so charming for us when we visit.

Yeah, you're like, aw. Yeah. I'm like, ew, it's moldy.

Speaking of houses. real quick, I've been to your old house.

No, you haven't. Yeah. Julie Bowen's house? Yes. Shut up.

And it's gorgeous.

Isn't that the most gorgeous house ever? It's so nice. I literally sobbed leaving that house. Why'd you leave it? Because I was having babies and my brothers lived with me at the time.

Okay. So you had both brothers. You're in the middle, right? You have an older and a younger? Yes.

We're like a year apart.

And they were living with you. Yes. Where did they go? You said tough shit.

Just recently. No, I've tried so hard to keep them with me, but really it's so recent that, like I cried about it this morning. My younger brother found love, which is amazing. And she's the greatest girl ever. I have the best sister and he lives with her now.

This is Justin.

Justin.

So Justin.

You saying his name, he's gonna die.

Well, they might not like this part.

Oh, no.

Oh, Dax.

But you moved from one Gail's house's sister into another Gail's? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Something crazy.

It's modern. Yeah.

It's not impressive. No, no. I clipped their wings. My boys lived in my house. My boys.

You're very maternal.

Yeah, you really wanted to care for them.

Yeah. I worry about them so much. And my husband's like, hey, we have kids now. Right. So let's put that attention into them.

Also, if I was your husband and I had to live with both your brothers, I don't know.

So at first it was weird. And then my husband's more in love with my brothers than me.

Oh, okay.

We had a little something this morning. Ryan came in hot and was like, I don't want to do all these things with you. And then I left crying and my husband went to him first and was like, proud of you. That was good.

Oh.

For like having boundaries. And then he came up to me and rubbed my back and was like, you're exactly right to feel how you feel. And I was like, you're a liar.

I'm mad at him. I'm mad at him.

I'm mad, I'm mad. And he just had therapy. He just had therapy? He just had therapy. And I was like, how was it?

Well, he's either quite generous at seeing everyone's point of view or he's playing both sides. Is he a Capricorn?

No, I am. He's a Gemini.

Really bad.

Really bad. He trusts no one. He thinks everyone's out to get us.

But me too.

Starts negative.

And I'm not a Gemini. But me too.

I wonder if it's in your rising or your moon. Oh man, we gotta find out. We need to look into it.

That changes year to year, I assume? No. Oh, okay.

It's all one chart. Your birth chart. There's apps for it.

Okay, but doesn't everyone have a different birth chart?

Yeah.

I'm just curious. If you're born in 75, January 2nd, do you have the same rising as you would if you were born in 84??

No, because it depends on, you. put your exact birthday, your time of birth, to the minute.

That's what I thought.

And location.

That could explain some stuff. Why did mom and dad find their way to Nantucket? They're jewelers?

They were. My dad's had like seven lives. He was 43 when he started pushing us out. Oh, nice.

Oh, okay.

This coffee is so fancy. I don't even know how to open it. I can't do it.

Have you ever had one? You live here in LA. What is this? It's called a cream top. It's a very perverted name.

That's cream. I'm gonna be pooping later. That's nice.

Yeah, yeah, you will. Maybe even mid-interview. Mid-interview.

You guys can hear it.

Like, aw, that'd be so sweet. That'd be a first ever.

My parents, it's a long, weird story, but a lot of people go to Nantucket to vacation there in the summer. Then they love it so much, they end up staying year-round. So my dad was that guy. He was like a band teacher. at one point.

Is he from Boston?

He's from Springfield, Mass. My mom was from Vermont and New Hampshire, something like that.

They're indistinguishable if you've been.

Sorry, New Hampshire. Yeah, it's like the same place, right? Yeah, yeah, virtually. So. my mom would summer there too, because her uncle lived there.

So there's an age gap.

Age gap, yeah.

How big is the age gap?

It's 20.

I love this story.

She was 19 when she would go to Nantucket, and he was 40.

I can relate.

He had his life together, and now he's 75, and she's 55, and it's starting to sink in.

Is she starting to feel like a caretaker?

He's so young, and so like, I gotta be doing something at all times that he's on it. I hope he doesn't hear this. I don't think he should drive a car soon. He got hit by a car recently, just walking, and that really took him 10 years back.

These falls aren't good.

These falls aren't good, and he loves to go on walks, and he loves nighttime walks. If he's on a bike, he won't wear a helmet because he's from the 20s.

Probably also a Capricorn.

He's March, so no, but he is old school stubborn. Can't tell him what to do.

How did they meet? This is an enormous age gap. Nowadays, this would be rough.

We would judge. Back then, we were like, we're rooting for you.

But they've been together for 30 years.

Yeah, so her parents are only five years older than my dad. Whoa!

Oh, my God.

Yeah, the uncle's friend.

Is your dad hot? Be honest.

No.

Really?

He's just like, you know what he was? The dude is charming. Okay, that'll do it. Charisma is his middle name. He's a musician.

So really quick, not to psychoanalyze, mom.

She loves this podcast so much. Yeah, she's sitting in the car right now. She's freaking out. Oh, she is?

Oh, I have to meet her before she leaves. Shout out. Why was stability so appealing to her?

The dudes her age were all a mess. 19-year-old boys, ugh.

Yeah, they're not great.

She had a few boyfriends that she says they were cuckoo, or they would cause a scene at her house and embarrass her. when she broke up with them. She was a babe.

Okay. Babe, babe, babe. Smoke show.

I was like, where did my boobs go? I didn't get any of your boobs. A lot of people have beefs with their mom about that. Yeah, I was like, something happened, and I have dada's boobs.

But wait, when you were younger and you're waiting to go through puberty, is your expectation, we're gonna get those?

Yeah, I was like, if you're that drunk.

So you might have had a little heightened expectation.

These cones will turn into boobs.

Yeah, you're just like waiting for any day now.

My brothers would be like, hey, cone tits.

Yeah, what was it like growing up with two boys?

I played football. I played baseball. My friends were the cheerleaders, and I was like, I'm on football. I was a big girl too, so at one point, I was center and my older brother, a year and five days older, was quarterback.

You were literally on the football team?

I was bent over. Oh, no.

Careful, Stanley. You held up pretty good. It didn't spell too bad.

No, they're really good. If you don't know what center is, I'm bent over with the ball, about to hike it through my couch to my older brother. And I was like, at one point, who's messing with us? The coach is dad's friend. Why are we doing this?

So it was an actual team.

Oh, we were the dolphins.

In high school?

No, this is third grade, fourth grade. This is Boys and Girls Club after school programs.

Got it. I gotcha. Okay, so you start singing at six at church. Very traditional place to start singing. Many of the singers we've interviewed started in church.

My dad would have us go every Sunday, and he was really cool and could sing. Not great, but he was charming. He knew it, really confident, really cool. He's a cool dude. When people would show up to church in the morning on time, he'd be like, come over here.

He played the organ at the church?

Organ and piano and keys, everything. He could play, the big one too, where he could step on the pedals. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And ever since I was really young, I would sit next to him and he'd be like, pull out the flute. And I was like, no, okay, and help him.

All right, so this is a self-serving question, because I was 38, so only five years younger than your dad. Did you say 43 when he started having kids? Were you conscious of him being an older dad?

Not at first. At first, he was the most fun dad, and we would climb all over him, and there's videos of us just attacking him. And we didn't ever think of him as old until I got to kindergarten. Him and my mom brought me to school, and my friend was like, is that your grandpa?

Okay.

And we get that a lot. You don't look like a grandpa. You know what I mean? Yeah. My dad was like more grandpa-y than you.

Okay.

You look like a movie star.

Oh, that's nice. Thank you. And were you self-conscious of it?

Yeah, I was like, no, that's my dad. And I was upset.

He was very stable when my mom met him.

It's a good job. And they work at the jewelry store together. My mom especially looks really young.

So this is exacerbated.

So when customers would come in, they'd go, oh, honey, is your dad here? To her. Oh, wow.

This is a unique story.

I know, no one knows this part of me.

Yeah, yeah, it's very unique.

And anyone who meets me and my mom, they're like, sisters. When they would walk in and see me and mom working at the jewelry store, they'd be like, girls, where's dad? Oh, wow. Oh, Christ. Like, that's her husband.

Get real, that's my grandpa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you, get confused about what's what.

Now, Nantucket's tiny, right? Teensy weensy. So I presume you guys know everyone at some point.

It sucks to go get tampons.

Yes, you know the boy working at the counter.

Well, it's your friend's dad.

Oh, sure.

It's like, hey, Dan. I slept over your house the other night.

Yeah, just gonna grab these heavy flow tampons.

Yeah, I was like, there's gotta be another way.

Now, did you pine to be off of Nantucket?

Yeah, it's also famous for people staying there. My dad was a band teacher, and all the students that he taught there grew up and had children with him at the same time. So all my friend's parents were like, your dad was my band teacher. And then it starts being like, whose cousins was that? You know?

Very insular.

And it's rough in the winter there, right?

There's not much to do. So you do drugs and you drink and you hook up and you do a lot of weird things. at a really young age. 13, my brother started drinking and smoking.

My town was tiny and there was nothing going on either. And several kids left junior high pregnant.

That's better than mine, dude. Mine were suicides. Five. Five? And the first one, they did a shrine on the wall because they didn't know what to do.

It is contagious.

The head of some hospital in Boston came down to be like, we're going to switch things up, because this is not how you handle this. Right.

So you basically got to ignore it and keep it quiet. Isn't that wild? Yeah.

So we moved to Cape Cod.

Is that what instigated the move?

I was also allergic to this island. I was coughing a lot. I had this weird cough, tic. And I also found out I was allergic to certain molds. And these schools are just old and wet.

Yeah, it's very damp climate. And did you have other tics?

Yeah. When I was really young, I would hum at the table. Not a singing hum. I would take a sip and go, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm. And I have to have an even number.

Same. I'm writing about it right now. I'm having so much fun. They're endless when I start remembering them. But did you do this one?

Mine was, I still have it. sometimes if my husband puts his big hand on this shoulder, I'm like, well, then get this one. Oh, evenness. I gotta be. even.

Yeah, I had a thing with anytime I had dry mud on my feet and then I'd be in the classroom that had that carpet, I would like almost pass out, because I would rub the dryness on that carpet and it would give me heebie-jeebies until I'd have to go to the drinking fountain and make everything wet.

Oh, my God.

Wait, you made your feet wet?

I would have to like wet my fingertips, and there's just so much dryness on my feet and on the carpet that I had to find moisture. Poor thing. I was like so busy. Were you busy all day with the different things?

I was exhausted. I've always, my whole life, picked my skin off my fingers.

We were just talking about this. Do you ever eat it?

No, I don't swallow it.

But you chew on it, right?

I gather a pile. Okay.

We just got in a whole debate because I had a peel and I peeled this little piece off and for a second I was like, I want to chew on this. I didn't do it.

But you wanted to. I really wanted to. Were you like, God, that looks yummy?

No, it's just something about the texture. My thing was when you bite a callus off and then you just feel it in your teeth.

If I couldn't get my fingers, I'd go to my mouth and I'd get my lips.

I always get my lips.

Oh man, I could cause damage. Like craters in there. I just look crazy. Like I'm on drugs.

Do you think that was a genetic disposition?

I hope so. Nothing crazy happened to me at childhood that I'm like, that tracks.

Reading about you, it seems like you had the most idyllic, supportive, lovely family.

We had a great family. There's always family stuff, but yeah.

Yeah, of course. But the fact that you start singing at six, you start performing with your dad and your aunt and your brother. You're in a cover band by the time you're 12.. This sounds so cute and dreamy. It was cute.

I was young when Mac was making computers again and they were like, this is cool. And now we're doing silver, that world. And my dad, it was a big purchase. I think it was my birthday. And he let me know, this is a big deal.

Maybe I should be saving receipts.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This was an expensive trip to Lisbon.

This is the card that I used for Megan. It will be paid back. And I did. But yeah, he got me a Macintosh. He also was like Dell guy, all the way.

So he had to break his religion.

He was like, I don't know how to use this. I cannot help you. But you figure it out. There's something called garage band on here and you can make beats. Cause.

So what kind of kid were you? You said you were popular.

My older brother was popular. So by default, I got to be there a little bit. I was trainer sis all throughout middle school and high school.

They called him trainer.

Yeah, he's trainer and I was trainer, sis.

And then Justin, how did he fit in?

J train.

Well, what a dumb question.

They loved him because he was a freshman, while Ryan was a very popular senior. And at a junior, we became more friends. Finally, my older brother and I.

Cause he wanted to be his best friend.

So bad. I just followed him everywhere. And he was like, get away from me. And now we're best friends, but it took so long. I just had to be a pop star.

Wow, this is ideal.

It was sick. We had a garage with a cold attic above it. And we would have little parties up there. Me and my brothers would make eye contact and be like, are you over this? And he's like, I'm over this.

Oh, okay. You were really running the show. Ran the show, yeah.

Okay.

This is the dream. It is. If I was your parents, I'd be so pleased by this. My kids all get along. They're going to parties together.

And was Justin trying to hook up with your friends and you were trying to hook up with Ryan's friends?

I was trying to hook up with Ryan's friends, but none of them would portray him like that, quote unquote. I was like, am I a monster? Why won't you look at me? They're like, I would never do that to Ryan. And I was like, you're a loser, bye.

Yeah, that's not fair.

And was Justin gobbling up any scraps?

No, he was sweet and shy and insecure.

Okay, I like him.

He's a sweetie-beetie. He found love. He found love.

It's going to be hard for Ryan, he's had too many options.

So, Ryan, I wanted to ask if this is like an addict thing, because he's sober now for three years.

Oh, wonderful.

Oh, congratulations to him. Oh yeah, yeah, he went crazy.

He had to, he was too cool in high school.

But he was extra cool out here, too. He was like my brother out here and all the parties that I was invited to, I never went and was like, Ryan, go for me. And he was great at it. I never had to worry about him ever. But then we saw it was a problem.

He's always been a stud and everyone likes him.

It's not hard for people to fall in love with him fast.

And also if you go out to your garage and you have like 10 supercars.

He does not.

Well, no, I know. But I'm saying the odds of you committing to one of the supercars and only driving that supercar when there are 10 there, it's a unique person that's gonna make that decision. Not that we should ever feel bad for gorgeous, popular guys, but I think it's harder for them to make that decision.

Does he want to have a family?

For a long time, especially being sober, he's like, I need to figure this out. I need to figure me out. But now, at three years, I put so much pressure on him. We'll meet a nice new lady and I'll be like, hey, you could be my sister. Do you think my bro's cute?

That same codependency.

Yeah. And now he truly lives on his own. And I'm like, I know he's alone. Elsie, you're gonna find the best person. Where are they?

So loneliness scares you.

Loneliness scares me. Death scares me more.

I hate death. I'm watching Six Feet Under right now. I wouldn't recommend.

I love it. I watch Dateline every night. I listen to Dateline to fall asleep.

I think people that are most fearful of death are really drawn.

I cannot get enough of it. I think I'm gonna solve a crime one day.

Do you listen to the murder podcast and stuff?

Yeah, all of them, yes. All of them, yeah. I love it. They need to have a good voice, though. And Keith Morrison is the best.

Are you singing to the choir right now?

Singing in the choir?

Singing to the choir.

Preaching to the choir. Preaching to the choir.

I was like, shall I sing? Shall I sing? This is the answer. To promo, my whole album, Timeless, is about my big fear of death, but I turned it into a love song. Don't worry, it's not like a big album of sad.

Is that an archway into spirituality?

I don't know what I believe in. I'm so confused and lost. I wish I could see a ghost so that I know I could at least haunt my kids forever. I tried. I went to a haunted mansion.

I haven't seen any either. I want to. I accept that other people do, but I personally haven't.

I'm like, I've seen videos, and I'm like, I believe that. That's sick. But like, show it in person. I want to see a body in front of me that was here and is not.

Because I can't find purchase in a belief in a god. Same. But I was listening to this book for the second time, A Brief History of Intelligence. Great book, recommend it. It's talking about the period in evolution where fish crawled out of the water and started eating vegetation close to the waterline and developed lungs.

Oh, God. Think about when your wife, he was pregnant, and how there was nothing in there, and then there was lungs.

Exactly. In a matter of months.

But it had DNA.

It was sesame seed.

Telling it how to build those lungs.

I don't know. That's deep. I can't help you with that.

To go from gills to lungs sounds like quite a mutation.

So you think, when we die, it's like black, and that's it? I do. Oh, fuck.

You too?

I want to not.

Right, we'd all like to not. I do think that, but just last night, thinking about the lungs, I was like, I don't know, man. That's quite a mutation.

So that means then you believe it is divine?

I don't jump to. I know what it is, but I did have a moment where I was like, that's a little hard for me to believe. In the way this has been explained and we all accept it, I find it a little hard to believe that lungs could be a mutation.

Do you believe aliens are running this?

No. Damn. I believe in aliens, but I don't think they've ever been here.

They didn't make us?

Right, they're too far away.

They're not running the sim.

Yeah. We're not their pets.

Okay, back to your life. Sorry about the fish thing. Really, last night I was just like,

this is bullshit. No, I'm gonna ask my whole family. My uncle's very into that, so I'm gonna ask him.

Okay, and it's a great book, I recommend it, but just lungs is a mutation. Anyways, moving on. You write your first song at 12.. Here's what I knew about you, and I think you already know this, because you've run into Kristen a few times in real life.

Once, and it was the best day of my life.

Okay, just once. Is that an award show?

It was at James Corden backstage, and I got to hold her.

Okay, great. Oh, that's nice. She's very holdable.

She is.

And at that time, she was two or three, Delta's first song she ever sang compulsively was All About That Bass. You just love it. And she would say, do you remember this, Monica? She would go, all about that bass. No, twobble.

Invite me over, what do you mean? I'm singing in person.

Oh my God. I'm pretty sure. she told you that when you guys met, because I think she came home and she's like, oh my God, I met Meghan Trainor, and I got to tell her that Delta sings All About That Bass, no twobble. We own the CD.

You own the CD?

You know, you could mail in, and you could get a little thing from you that was written, and an actual physical CD. Delta demanded. we get her this CD at like three years old. I would have sent it to you. But we're like, hon, we have nowhere to play this.

And making beats.

I didn't know your story started so young until today. Even though I was fully aware of you, and thanked you from afar for this gift of Delta saying twobble, I didn't realize you were like fucking 12 and 15, and in bands and writing tons of songs by the time you were 17..

My dad was very musical, so there was a piano in the house, and he's been playing since he was 11.

Do you think you would have been able to take instruction from him?

I was desperate for it. And then one day he taught me the circle of fifths, and I was like, this is fucking lame. Just teach me chords. And then he did.

Wait, do you say the cycle of?

Circle of fifths.

I thought you were making a joke about Jax's fish story. Oh, no, no, no. I was like, this is lame. I thought you were doing a callback to the fish.

He showed me, he's like, I'll give you the basics, and that's it. I'm not going to teach you anything else. You have to learn by ear. And that's what I did. So he showed me what a chord is, and then I just sat there forever.

It was lovely. Oh my God, thank you. Two things were happening. I was like excited and I recognized the song. And then I literally went, that movie is so much bigger in Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard.

Also, it's the reason I won't go in the ocean. So it ruined my life.

But I don't think most people know the song from Jaws. So he might not have taught you, but crazy supportive, because he built like a little recording studio.

I just was so persistent that hours later, I was like, dad, look, I learned a whole song. And he was like, holy crap. I remember in high school, he got me a ukulele. And he's like, I don't know how to play this either, but I'm sure you could figure it out. And then I wrote a whole lullaby that day as like my thank you, and would write him songs all the time.

Do it for me. Help me.

And he was like, no, dude, when you land in LA and you're by yourself, you got to figure this out. And then I set it all up and I was like, it works. He's like, no, write a song. And then in high school, when I was like a beast at it, after school, every day, I would go home, write a song and play it by dinnertime for all of them.

Every day.

My dad's like, you're not really great at something until you've done it 500 times. Then write 10,000 songs. And so I was trying to get my hours in.

He's a big part of this story.

Yeah, he's a big part of this. But I bought him a house and was like, we good?

Yeah, do you feel like you owe him? Yeah.

I got a job in Australia to do Australian Idol and half of my paycheck, I was like, I'm bringing the whole fam and my dad. He's never been, he's 75.. We're gonna live in Australia. So that's how I try to pay him back.

This is my dream.

Your daughters are gonna pay you to go to Australia.

I'm willing to buy my own ticket, but if they want me there while they're doing something like that is the dream.

It was sick.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

So embarrassing. Because of songs, I'm like, oh my God, I hope no one hears them.

Well, that was gonna be one of my questions. What on earth are you writing about at that age?

So much love.

You just were desperate to be in love.

Desperate to be in love. My mom's like, who are you?

Anyone who didn't like me.

Yeah, the first ones, I didn't know what love was. And then the third album, I went through my first heartbreak. And then that album that I wrote and produced, I got a publishing deal because of it. So I was like, this is my adulthood. I went, yeah.

This would be. my guess, is that you would present very boy-friendly because of the brothers. And then it would turn out that you are a girl with emotions and the boy would be like, hold on. He would present as male. I thought you were a bro with boobs.

Also when I got quote, unquote, famous and started looking way prettier than I did, I got daycare, I got makeup. I've never been prettier. I'm gonna find love. And then I would go out with my bro and no one would approach me. No one would speak to me.

How do you explain that?

I asked my bro. I was like, dude, do I give off mean vibes? Am I a monster? He was like, no, dude, you just take over a whole room. And sometimes that's intimidating for weak guys.

But he was really swinging for the fence as he was playing Coldplay.

There's a sky full of stars, you know? And I was like, what are you doing? He lives and dies for Coldplay. That's number one. And then I'm number two.

That's a good pick. Well, it sounds like Coldplay's number one. Ryan's number two. You're number three. Literally.

No, Darryl is in love with my brother.

Okay, so you're also kind of hungry to learn. So you are doing it in high school. You're receiving some instruction. But then you're also going to these camps through Berkeley in the summer.

You Wikipedia me, dude.

How do you know this? You have an excessively long Wikipedia, by chance.

Oh, my God.

I tried to whip up a theory.

It's not real. Yes, I did go to summer camp. I went to band camp at Berkeley College of Music because I was trying to get into their college. So I heard if you go there for three years, you get kind of a discount when you go in or you automatically get in. I did two years.

And that would have been to go to college there?

Yeah, college. And at the same time, I signed a publishing deal already.

But you go to Nashville for a music convention.

Even weird, I went to Durango, Colorado.

Oh, Durango. Okay, I've been.

And they did a songwriting expo, but all the publishers I met were from Nashville.

So right, this is the part that I'm very curious about, because I know how it works in acting, but I'm curious. if you're in Nantucket and you want to be a songwriter and you're going to band camp in the summer, what are these expos?

My mom was Googling everything. She was signing me up for all these songwriting competitions online, like on taxi.com or something. And was like, you won. And I was like, what did I win? And they were like the front page of their website.

Perfect. Hell, yeah.

She was just trying to prove to herself, I'm not just like a mama who loves my baby so much. There's good here. And so they looked up songwriting places where you could go and submit your song. And that's what these expos were. And they were terrifying.

Yeah, how do they work?

Hundreds of people walking around in this hotel. You're lost. I'm like, I've never seen this many people in my life.

You feel stupid, right?

Stupid, yeah. My dad was with me. We would go into separate ballrooms with a lot of chairs and then four dudes up at a table with a shitty boombox, ready to play your CD. Oh wow. And you would walk up when it was your turn, hand in the lyrics, hand in the CD, and be like, it's track seven.

They listen to the song. You don't perform it.

They listen to the song. While you're sitting there. While you're sitting there. I was so nervous that I wrote on top of it. I'm 17,.

Yeah, yeah, setting the bar low.