Sir Paul McCartney

It's fun to go through them and talk to Paul, and we had a lot of fun to see some of the photos we discussed in this episode. Follow at Team Coco on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. And remember, you can always go out and get the book and follow along. It's a fascinating document.

And I feel wildly elated about being Conan O'Brien's friend.

That's it, good night, thank you.

I can tell you I'm gonna need friends.

Please thank you very much. That was almost long enough, thank you.

Such a delight to be here tonight at the Tribeca Festival. And as you know, this is, or maybe you have been told, this is gonna be an episode of my podcast. Conan O'Brien needs a friend, yeah.

And I desperately still need a friend. There's one rule in show business, which is when you're sharing a bill with Paul McCartney, you waste no time, not a second. Every second I'm out here is excruciating for all of you. The biggest name in show business is right behind that curtain.

And I'm out here being a jackass because that's what I do. I am thrilled that he's here. We're gonna be talking about and going through. A book of photos never before seen. 1964 The Eyes of the Storm. Thrill of a lifetime, to be able to say, Ladies and gentlemen. Paul McCartney.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Yes.

Thank you.

I don't hear much in my profession.

Absolute joy to be sitting with you here. This just this is fantastic. As you know, this is a podcast listen to. Billions of people all around the world. Don't laugh at that.

That's just mean.

Hundreds of people around the world. Well, let's let's dive right into it. First of all, this book is extraordinary. You took these photographs, I think you got a Pentax camera.

Yeah, in 1963, I think you and all the fellas got Pentax cameras, but you were taking a lot of pictures and then you forgot you had them.

She said, Oh yeah, we've got them. I said, Oh great, let's have a look. So yeah, it turned out there were like about 300 pictures.

What does this bring back to you? does this you toying with the camera, experimenting?

Yeah, so you took them, and then they went in England, they went to the chemists, as we called it right. And they go down, they develop it, and then, you know, about a week later, you get your pictures back. So yeah, I think this is me just seeing what I can do.

Uh, I would like to point out that I think when I talk to young people, when I talk to my kids today, they have no idea about the limitations. With working with this kind of camera, we're all so used to the phone, yeah, we can see it right away. And, as you said, these came in rolls of maybe 36 photos.

You take them, you don't know, and you also. It's not autofocus, you have to figure out what the f-stop is, you have to know all that stuff, yeah.

It's a whole different world.

Yes, you know, they'd be taking pictures of us for this, that and the other. And so you could talk photography to them. And you could say, What is the f-stop in this situation? What are you, what are you shooting? 400 ASA.

Okay, well, that will be, and some of the rogues would say, F8 at a fortnight.

This is Liverpool 1963.

What struck me about this photo is that we're. I'm so used to seeing photos where John and all of you are posing for the cameras, or pulling a face, or projecting that image, because it's you taking the photo. John is very unguarded.

You know, so he, Yeah, you're right, he's unguarded, and I noticed that during the exhibition in the book. He's got this little habit of not biting his nails, he's just got. He does this all the time, so it's just great to be reminded of it.

Because, you know, so long ago I'd forgotten that he had that little, that's a John thing, so, and, you know, particularly because he's not here. It's so lovely for me to see these memories and just remind me of where we were, what we did in those days.

When's the bubble going to burst? And sometimes I see that this really picking up steam. But I see in some of these photos. Is it going to work out? How long is this going to last?

But as you say, we didn't know, so there's this sort of, we're trying really hard. So if someone says, you know the photographers, Hey, hey Beatle, look over here, you know you would do it. There was no sort of moody like later for you. So, you know, I think that comes over just all this early innocence.

Yeah, of us.

Well, you didn't know if you were going to get a lift, so you shared all of that. You're sitting by the roadside, you know, just cursing the driver that wouldn't give you a lift and loving the lorry driver. Who did, you know? So, you know, so that's my little hitchhiking, mate.

Right, we thought we were kings of the universe. Yeah, we smoked cigarettes, man, we had suits and ties.

Uh-huh, guitars. Yes, we were cool, yeah.

I wasn't sure Beatles cool or not, you know, I'm more of a Jerry and the pacemakers guy, but all right.

No one's ever said that to you, and no one ever will.

I love, I think this next photo is a terrific photograph. It is, of course, Ringo, but look what, I just love the way you've captured the smoke. That's a gorgeous photograph.

And Ringo, like all of us, actually, we were smokers, but Ringo would do this trick. Ringo was like Suave. He had like the best car, and he would drink like bourbon and 7-up.

Woo.

And when he was going on a date with a girl, he'd put two cigarettes in his mouth and light them.

Mr. Brian Epstein.

He was a great, great guy, very nice man.

And then suddenly he's talking to the biggest people in show business and they all want a piece of you guys. And he needs to figure it out. Which is, I must imagine, overwhelming.

He had a style which he would, he would advise us with some tricks of the trade. Yeah, you know, so that where the Beatles at the end of every show, at the end of every show, would do the bow. You know? That was the kind of thing Brian would say that would look good, so we try it, and he was right.

You blew it.

I blame Bruce Springsteen.

Can you do four minutes? and the guy would say, yeah, so they would do four. So we thought, well, half an hour, that's like, epic, but that was it.

You know, a big Beatles show. We were on and off like that. It didn't seem strange.

Yeah, which I think people don't think about that now.

I was born, as was John and Ringo. George, I think, just missed it. We were born during the war. So you look back on it, you think, God, imagine our parents. Somewhere like this, there's a cinema, but there's bombs falling, you can't cope with that.

You can't realize so we came out of that.

It meant that you were striving now in this new world. Suddenly there were groups and singers. It was all very exciting, Conan.

I missed it all.

I love this shot again, you're backstage, I see George is twisted. I love the beetle boot in the foreground. I also just love these peaks of backstage life.

You're waiting, maybe there's some anxiety, or you're bored. There's that great, I think, album in the background for the Platters. Again, this is a view that no one else was getting.

It turned out they were going to cover our visit to New York. And so we said to them, What do you want us to do? They said, just ignore us. And that was like the greatest direction we'd ever had, because you always had to ham it up for people. You know, all the other photographers.

So, you know, it was exciting, it really was, and I don't think we minded it until later.

This is at the height of Beatlemania in England. And you take this photo out the back and I think no one could have imagined that you were living in an attic. I think with Peter Asher, her younger sister, younger brother, sorry.

And with the Beatles, we'd got a little flat in Mayfair. So everyone thought it was kind of cool. But I went to see it and it was like, soulless, you know? So Mrs Asher said, Well, you can come and stay here, you know?

So I did, I jumped at it. She was a great cook as well. But then the fans would find out, so they were that way out in the street.

Yeah, and I was up here, so I had to try and figure out some way of getting out, so it was crazy. We knew this guy next door, you know, the house next door, who lived on this same level.

He's a major somebody, he's like an army type, lives on his own. So I would ring him and I would say, I'm coming out, he said, Oh, okay.

So he'd open his window and I'd walk along this little, you know, kind of dangerous little parapet and go in his window. And then down in the lift to the basement and go out of the muse and escape.

Well, this next one is not. You didn't take this, but it was taken clearly, it was taken with your camera. Such a great, dynamic shot of the two of you, you and John, and you can see as hard as you worked, you always made it fun for each other, I think.

That was a key ingredient.

And John, of course, was very good at it. This interesting, with that big red mark, is to show me that I like these photos. And these were taken off a contact sheet, which kids these days don't know about. So you would take your 36 photos and they would be developed on all of them, the 36 shots on one print. So then you would go through it, mark them up and you could get enlargements, etc.

So I have a show in England at the National Portrait Gallery, where we've shown some contact sheets. And it's just surprising how many people don't know what that is.

I love you guys, go to.

Things are really heating up. You go to Paris, this is you seeing a poster of yourselves for Les Beatles?

Les Beatles And what I love about this? And I don't think you can even see, but when you look closely. First of all, the photos that you're using in these posters were by Astrid Kircher. And you also have the old logo that you had for half a minute, the script, the Beatles, with the antenna coming out.

Before you went to that iconic drop t, but this feels to me like you saying, Hey, look, that's a poster of us. It's exciting.

Because the French were a little late in getting the Beatles in England. There was a lot of screaming and girls and stuff going mad for us. When we went there, it was quite sort of, you know, come on, prove yourselves. So we did, we had to work it.

So yeah, it was exciting, just to see us up in lights as it were.

And the French, to this day, call me Paul McCartney.

McCartney.

And this is, I think I recognize this. It's from a very famous picture that you guys took outside the Olympia, I think theater, bright blue bricks, and it's a very iconic shot of you guys. But I think you grabbed. This is probably in between takes with the photographer.

And I think you might have grabbed this shot and you can see again. This is you guys at work, this is in between, you know, taking a photo session, and this isn't the hey, we're the Beatles, it's guys working.

Good looking.

I've got some photos I'll show you when I was 20..

But you guys obviously looked spectacular. What I love. Another aspect of your perspective here is the world is looking at the Beatles at this point, but you guys are looking back. And this is a great shot of what it was like to be you and the other guys. And actually the gentleman in the hat, very famous photographer, who took a lot of great snaps of you guys.

Is that you? is it, Dezo?

Yeah, he became a good friend, you know, but he would get out with all the other photographers and snap us. But yeah, we saw this a lot, and so I thought, well, yeah, I'll take a picture of them. It looked so good.

You know, they're all lined up, so yeah, but this was a daily occurrence.

Later, when I thought as an adult about John's upbringing, he had a really tragic life, really.

Because, you know, as a kid, his mother was decreed to not be good enough to bring him up. Julia, his mom who we would visit, and he loved her, he wrote a beautiful song about her, but she had to give him up.

The father, Alf, had left the home when John was three, so that's not too wonderful.

And so John grew up with these sort of little minor tragedies throughout his life. He was taken in by his aunt Mimi, and was brought up by her. But one night, Mom Julia was visiting them, come to see her son. And on the way home, she got run over. Got killed by apparently an off-duty cop, who maybe was a bit inebriated.

It never came out. Of course, they cover it up, but so John was having that, you know, taking off his mom, his mom dies, you know? So it made me realize why he had that vulnerability.

I always admired the way he dealt with it because I'm not sure I would deal that well with the stuff he went through.

It's him with his glasses on. These are very thick glasses, and that was something that was kind of verboten. His shots of John with his glasses on when the photographer's around.

But it's you, so he can have his glasses.

It's your show.

Okay.

Well, so John was, like, really short-sighted, and he used to come down from his house, which was a mile or two away from where I lived. And we would write songs and have a little session, and this occasion it was Christmas and then John. After we finished, he would walk back up in the dark.

And he would walk to his place. I knew the route he took and it was a place called Booker Avenue. And on the corner was this little kind of little posh bungalow. So he walks home.

And then we talked and the next day he said, You know, that house on the Corner, Booker Avenue? So I went past it. I said, Those people are crazy, I said, What do you mean?

He said Well, they were out. You know what time it was. When we finished midnight, He said. They were out on the veranda on the porch, playing cards at midnight.

I said, I don't get it, so I went up and looked. It was the manger, it was the baby Jesus.

He wasn't going to put his glasses on.

All right now we talk about again you've got an unguarded Ringo, and again we're seeing this backstage life a little pensive, waiting. And this is you. A technique which I think you really liked.

Which is, you could surprise people, you could catch them if you shot into a mirror.

And so, yeah, I knew I could get that shot without him looking over and going, Oh yeah, so yeah. There was a lot of this backstage and again, the light was quite nice, you know, so it was a good shot to try and take.

Things are heating up, it's getting crazier and crazier, and he seems like he's just trying to be zen.

You know, he could just knew, he could just sit there, and, as I say, I always admired that about John.

You know, now I realize I was like a big fan of John's. We all were actually in the group. He was like a very cool guy, you know, very witty, very funny, but also very deep and real. So these photos show that from an early age.

And I never looked that good, but I think we know that. But I also love this, almost feels Victorian, that wallpaper, that light switch. This is, you know, a different. It's show business from a different era.

You guys were changing all the rules, but you're still in those dressing rooms.

But there were plenty of like, jugglers and, yeah, strange people.

So, yeah, we were in that world, which I liked, I liked coming out of that and sort of emerging. You know, you go to a show and it's all rock and roll, you know, it was a rock and roll show, but then you got all sorts of different acts.

So, yeah, so it was interesting, it made it interesting for us. You wanted to chat to some of these people, you know, and see what life was like for them.

And it was a limelight, which not many people know was a piece of lime that you lit and it burned phosphorescent, and that went through a lens and became the limelight beam.

He'd go home and he'd sing the songs to them, they'd remember them, so they'd all come out. The family sing songs. And also he would take home programs for the event that people had left.

And he would take them home, and the girls would iron them, make them new again, and he'd take them back and flog them.

A sense of enterprise.

It's still to be part of that tradition.

Yeah, all right.

So, you know, you felt very lucky.

I think I did pretty well, I've got a nice hardware store, I think I did as well as it. Oh, Jesus.

Yeah, this is John wearing many hats. I mean, sorry, George, I get them all confused.

You're the drummer, right?

But I love it. It's that sense of comedy, too, of don't play the joke, you know, there is nothing funny happening here, which is the funniest way to be. I'm going to wear these two hats and I'm going to give you the most serious look in the world.

Yeah, you know, he had a good, deadpan sense of humor.

And these hats were just lying around, they're probably the dancers hats. Looks like this. I think the dancers would get a cane, one of those hats and a scanty costume and do all sorts of dancing.

I believe it's in Paris and this looks like a Chet Baker album cover. It's absolutely. It's a stunning photograph. You guys are ushering in a whole new era of music, but you're still working alongside these other guys.

You know, I just took the picture, but I never knew until very recently who they were or what was going on. And it turns out Elvis Costello texted me just the other day and he said he's got an amazing text from a friend of his. It was called Ray.

And Ray said, I've got the book, and on page 161, there's this photo of my dad playing guitar. What he said? My heart skipped a beat. So now we know who that was.

That was Ray's dad.

You know, you have a you're on the charts, a number one hit, you're going to do the Sullivan show. We all know what happens, but you guys on the way over, you don't know.

America is going to be the number one hit, America's the Big Prize. The country's in mourning after JFK's assassination, which is two months earlier. What are you going to encounter? Is it going to work?

It was named Kennedy, and so the word got back to us that there's a big crowd at the airport. Oh, wow, getting exciting. So yeah, we kind of half knew what to expect.

But then it was a really big crowd and so, yeah, we were just bowled over. It was America, where all the music that we loved came from.

So we were just happy to be there. And then, with a big crowd of admirers screaming girls, it was great, and then what was nice? After that? Immediately we did a press conference at the airport and it was like, Hey, Peter, Peter, and all that again.

But we knew that whatever they laid on us, if there was any sort of insult, we knew we could come back with. Well, we're number one in your country. Yeah, boom, gotcha.

But this is what you guys saw outside the plaza, which is absolutely amazing. And again, probably you would see this in Europe, but to realize that this is happening in New York City.

Just in a car, it was like being in a movie, because every time I drive down Fifth Avenue, I tell everyone that story.

Mm hmm. Not many people encounter this when they show up in New York for the first time.

I was there as a kid and I knew I'd be talking to you. And I've read the book 50 times because I adore it. I love how different it is now, and I can see that you're starting to take pictures of signage.

You're taking a lot of sort of these almost still lifes. It's a different idea now that you're playing with which is this is America.

And actually, on that little needle, that's on the thing. It's a weather thing and it's always telling the temperature and you can see there's one little bit that's worn away, so that must be like the most popular temperature.

Ringo would sing, Boys didn't even change the gender. You know, it was just We're going to sing, please. Mr. Postman, baby, it's you. And that was, I think, at the time unusual, when everyone was asking, you guys, what do you love?

And you said, we love these girl groups.

I don't think we really worried about what the lyrics said.

And it was great for us to meet Ronnie, you know, yeah, wow.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

Ringo didn't fall off.

But there was like a little round stage in the middle of the room. You know, I now know it's to get more people in. Yes, that's why they were doing it, but, um, they said, Well, you'll have to, you'll have to play to these people.

Then you'll have to turn around and play to those people, then those people. So we just about managed it. We'd sort of move our amps and so Ringo had to move his whole drum kit.

Because his riser didn't move.

You know?

It's ridiculous, I know, and there's no one running out and doing it for him. And he's pushing and shoving and you guys are like, Come on, Ringo, let's go.

It's like, Um, you want to paint a portrait? She's got the head scarf and I wish I knew her story. Yeah, it's really nice. Who knows, you know, maybe one of these days someone will say, That was my auntie.

But um.

Maybe he's Ray's auntie, he's such a liar, that guy.

He texts me all the time, too. Paul, I don't believe a word of it, none of it. After Sullivan, as you said, you guys go down to Washington, D.C. And I love this photo because so much of your art, so much of your music, is about working people, you know?

Um, and barbers, Eleanor, Rigby, Firemen, Nurses, Poppy on a tray. You have this way, and I love this photo because you're looking out the window, you're at the eye of this hurricane and you see this man.

And you take this photo and you seem drawn to people that are out there doing their job, and he's anonymous.

Also, I mean, I could have just been in Liverpool, I could have just been to the right clearing up after him. You know, these that could be my uncle.

So I it isn't, but um, it's Ray's uncle, No.

No, no, but you know, I just I'm drawn to people's working, people's faces. They just look good.

And also the other thing I'm drawn to them for. People tend to think working class people are a bit stupid. Yeah, look at the job he's got, he's being pretty stupid.

But some of them, you know, if you know them and you kind of you visit their houses, or, like my uncles and aunties, they can be really clever people.

And I love that.

So you would have thought, Well, he's a bit thick.

I wouldn't, people might have thought.

He was the one in the family who would know the Shakespeare and the epic poems. He just he'd been taught, and he'd remember it all. So these hidden depths.

What I love about working people, never underestimate them.

Touring days were like a Fellini film satyricon, just madness, and here you really see it because get this book and you look up close.

There are beauty queens, yeah, there are, I mean, all kinds of just insanity.

There are all these people there and you're thinking, why are these people here? and you know?

Holding a chimpanzee.

Even monkeys.

Until the book, and.

And then we had to call the monkey to clear the photo.

Which did not go well. This is a fascinating photo because you are zeroed in on the fact that this is not something you saw, no?

In England you didn't see, in Liverpool you didn't see it, London this is not.

This was new to you?

And this guy on the motorcycle just pulled up right beside us. And I have my camera, so I just snapped this picture of him because I was so.

Amazed at seeing, like a gun, an ammo, because in England, we were very lucky the cops don't have guns.

So this was like.

Our laws never included the Second Amendment. But yeah, so I was fascinated by this guy, you know, and the gun and everything.

And I didn't want his head, I just wanted that bit, you know, just to remind myself of what America was like.

In the center. And to me, that says it all. I've never made anyone that happy in my life.

Unbelievable.

I mean, then I discovered her. when I looked at the picture, yeah, I can almost hear her screaming.

The parents would be like, No, no, no, Ritalin for you, but it's an unbelievable moment.

Because now you are at the top of show business, you're. The reviews are in seventy, eight, eighty million people watch.

The you guys on Sullivan, the world's going crazy, and then you hit this incredible water in Miami, yeah.

And you're happy, you're having fun, you're relaxing.

Even though we worked crazy days, I don't know, like three hundred days a year probably, but he would always put in like a visit to the beach.

And it was so good because after that you wouldn't mind doing a show.

Would that be a rum and coke, a scotch and coke? What were you guys having?

I mean, you know, and he took to it very well.

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, designer, I would have to tell Stella about that one. He's got the city, he's got the drink.

He's got the shades.

All good, yeah, that photo makes me very happy. And these next ones are just you guys rehearsing. well, actually, you're getting ready to rehearse.

This is, this is, of course, Ringo, and there's a lot of Beatles paraphernalia. he's wearing a, like a Beatles souvenir hat.

And it lets you know who we are.

They had these little terry towel jackets, very cool.

Are wearing.

I'm surprised you didn't wear them for the next three albums.

And just a shout out to That's mal in the background, that's Mal Evans. Who was your roadie?

Just he loved us and we loved him.

She's still alive, She's a lovely, lovely lady. Well, she is Lady Martin now, yeah, as George was knighted.

But they were great, they were a lovely couple, and, of course, George was a brilliant man and a great producer. He also had a fantastic sense of humor.

So he and Judy got on very well.

And yeah, they were a great couple.

You know, Emi, this is the way we do things. And so this picture was, I thought, very arresting for that reason.

But that was lovely, you know, just having these moments of leisure.

Back in the day, trouser firms, as we called them, we're all the rage.

You made it sound like a law firm. I love it. Welcome to the trouser firm. This is one of my favorites because it's George as happy as anyone could possibly be.

You know, you don't kind of see him like that, yeah. And we were on a boat in Miami and we were loving it.

We wrapped it up.

It was amazing how much it's changed, but also what's still the same. I looked at this photograph and I thought, there you are, I think, shooting out the back of the window. I think you're on your way to the plaza, maybe from the Ed Sullivan. But just the fact that you had the presence of mind to take some photos while all this was happening is miraculous to me.

It's a great shot.

And.

I really mean that, and I don't just mean.

I don't just mean with the Beatles, I mean, and my son would agree. Wings, the solo work, the work that you've been doing, McCartney Three.

You just don't stop making really lovely, beautiful music. And so when I arrived here today, someone in your group said, Well, thanks for doing this, Conan, and I said, What are you talking about? This is an absolute joy and a thrill and can't think of anything cooler than to get to spend an hour with you and look at these photos. So I think, on behalf of everybody here, I want to say, thank you, Paul McCartney.

Conan O'Brien needs a friend.