Episode 508: The Murders of Elisabeth Congdon and Velma Pietila

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Hey weirdos, I'm Melina.

I'm Ash.

And this is morbid.

It is, guys, we've officially wrapped up spooky season.

And now our regular theme song is back Happy November. We thought that would be fun to do for Spooky season. Some people liked it, some people didn't.

Yeah.

Glad we did it, it was a great experience.

It was just our regular music backwards to be like, Satanic.

It was just like metal.

Metal, you know?

And scary. But we're back to regularly scheduled programming.

It's weird right now to tell you guys that I hope you have a fantastic Halloween because.

I don't know how our schedule works ever. To be honest. Here's my transparent moment. I never know when an episode is coming out. We just have to do them.

Like, really far in advance.

Exactly.

Yeah, okay, so if you're on Wondery Plus right now, then it has not been Halloween yet.

But if you're not on Wondery plus, happy Halloween.

Nope.

Post-Halloween, not happy Halloween.

Hope you had a happy Halloween.

Yep, there you go.

And I hope you enjoyed our exorcist episode, yeah.

Rachel was great.

She's wicked, cool.

She was fascinating.

And we don't have any entities that she saw attached to us, so that's a win.

I love hearing that and we've had some really cool, I love hearing that. I really liked that because when she described the entities, I was like, I don't want that.

I know when you asked, I was nervous, I like, wanted you to ask? But then I was like, what if she, like, fucks our world up right now? and she's like?

Actually, I see one of the worst ones attached to your back right now. You have everything attached to you, you have all the entities. I was scared. Sometimes it feels that way.

Faeces Human forms.

Oh.

Go for it, girl.

And then we got to hang out with Tyler A.

And you're jealous.

And he's the best.

He is. We got to go to his book signing and we got to get brunch with him. It was wonderful, also really good brunch recommendation.

Indeed.

I don't know the name of what I got, but it was a pasta dish, it was like a Bucatini carbonara.

Sounds great.

Pasta with an egg on it.

It looked delicious.

And the crispy potatoes are really good to share.

They'll ruin you in a good way, they'll ruin you for other potatoes.

Yeah, I have the IBS and they didn't ruin me, if you know what I mean, but yeah, that's all our happy news.

A cool couple weeks, you know, Halloween-y things. John and I went to a murder mystery party the other night. Yeah, I didn't even get to tell Mikey about this.

Well, he's here right now, so go.

It was a Oh, I'm not going to go into all the details.

Tell him everything.

Tell him everything. But I met some listeners there, cool, and it was a fucking blast. I highly recommend anybody go to a murder mystery-themed party or dinner.

Yeah.

And I hope you're eating a pumpkin pie. Oh, I hope you're not. Oh, I love pumpkin pie.

I do not like pumpkin pie.

I'll fight you, I'll fight you behind the gym, okay?

Behind the gym, Which one?

Which gym? The school gym? Oh gosh, all right. Well, what a great segue into something that has nothing to do with that.

Hiding behind gyms? Yeah, I don't have any way to correlate that to my story.

We're not good at segues, and, you know what, that's okay, I accept that about myself.

We never have been good at segues.

So why would I do it now?

So why would we even start now?

I'm not changing for anyone.

I will never change, No, I hope I change a little bit.

I hope I continuously change forever.

It's called metamorphosis.

That's a podcast for another day.

If the light is on, then it isn't off.

Hilary Duff.

Hilary Duff That's just what I'm going to say about things when I need to transition. If the light isn't on, then it isn't off.

If the light is off, then it isn't on. Yeah, yeah.

So I'm going to talk about an heiress today, an heiress murder. Unfortunately, we are bringing it back to some true crime. I know we were doing some paranormal-ies for a minute and don't think those are going anywhere, baby, because they are here to stay.

We'll never get rid of them.

We'll never get rid of them, but we leaned in, obviously, for spooky season. Yeah, but now I bring to you the murder of Elizabeth Congdon.

Okay, okay.

So Elizabeth Mannering Congdon, she was born April 22, 1894. Now, before you leave, pump the brakes because she was born then, but her whole life goes down. So we get to a place of modern.

There you go, which is so different.

Yeah, you know, but she was born April 22, 1894, I know, in Duluth, Minnesota, to parents Chester Congdon and Clara Bannister.

Clara and Chester.

Clara and Chester Cece.

What a cute little couple.

Yes, Chester was a lawyer, and Clara was a schoolteacher, so they had moved to the area a few years earlier. And when they did, Chester ended up buying a stake in this like small mining operation in Musabi iron range, I think, is how you say it.

I still like Chester.

Chester loves to buy small stakes and things.

He does.

And you know what Chester loves to not really think that he's going to get a big roi. Listen to me over here.

Oh, look at that.

Finance boy. He didn't think he was going to get much return on that. But the operation quickly started pulling huge amounts of iron ore from the earth, and that made Chester Congdon a very wealthy man.

Look at him going in there, being like, it's nothing, it's nothing, just this little thing, and then it's like, boom, boom.

That's like, the best way to go in, that is.

No expectations.

Hope for the best, but expect the worst. Yeah, precisely. And he was just like, I don't know what's going to happen, and then boom, he was rich.

It happened.

So, between his reputation as a lawyer and his income from the mining operation, Chester became a very well-known and even actually more well-respected figure in Minnesota politics. First through his philanthropic work, and then he became a member of the Minnesota House of Representatives.

Wow.

So he's very well-respected. He sat on that seat from 1909 to 1913..

He just sat on the seat, he was there. Yeah, every time they came in, they were like, Why are you sitting on the seat?

He was just there on that chair, see what I did there. So his financial success did allow him to buy up large plots of land in and around Duluth, which included a large plot surrounded by. It's different from a plot, plot, plot.

Glensheen.

Glensheen, he named it, Oh, that's pretty, after the village in Surrey, England, that his family came from. Oh, I like that, Glensheen.

The best kind of granite, oh, the best.

And they decorated it with furnishings from Italy, Ireland, Germany, the Middle East, and by the time it was completed in 1908, it cost then about $854,000 to complete.

Wow.

So you're like, Wow, a mansion that's a lot of money, but mansions –.

Like 34-room wild and out mansion, but then –.

Are you ready? I'm ready today. $28.5 million. Whoa, a lot of money, baby.

Wow.

But thanks to Chester's foresight, Glensheen was built with future technologies and cultural tastes in mind. The house was originally lit by gaslight, but it was built with wiring so that everything could be modernized as soon as electric lighting was made available.

That's the foresight.

That's called planning ahead with Chester.

Wow, that's a forethought.

A forethought? Wow, that's the forethought. And there was also plenty of space on the 22-acre estate to allow for the incorporation of tennis courts and more forms of entertainment as they came along.

Wow, they really were on it.

They really were. And while Glensheen quickly became a popular gathering place for family, friends and neighbors, actually, Elizabeth and her siblings found the estate quote stuffy and formal. Ha, they weren't like big fans of it, they weren't into it.

Oh, that's cool.

Very ready or not?

Yes.

They would go ice skating or play hockey on the creek in the winter, and sometimes they'd just go out and, like, explore the ground. So slowly but surely, they started getting used to their new space.

Yeah.

And even though their dad was among Duluth's most prominent citizens, both he and Clara, their mother, were strict disciplinarians with very high expectations. So the Congdon children, they were all really close with their parents.

Okay.

According to local historian Gail Fetchinger, I believe is how you say it. Chester and Clara, quote, tried hard to spend time with each child individually, and Chester had a special way of getting to know his children better. Each year, Chester took one child on a trip.

Aw, wasn't that cool? I think that's a cool idea it is, yeah.

And just the fact that, like, I mean, back then.

For them to be thinking about, like spending time alone with each child.

Yeah, like, how important that was.

Because you can fall into that like routine when you have multiple children of, just like they all come together. Yeah, to everything, like everything's as a family, right?

With each one, yeah, yeah, because kids need that, yeah, but still, because of the time period, neither parent was like, overly affectionate or super doting, yeah.

Oh, that's nice.

Yeah, it was like a staple. It was a particular lesson that Elizabeth would carry with her throughout her entire life.

I'm like, stop f***ing around.

She's like, I can't. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast, like doubling and tripling, and it's all these girls with a diagnosis.

It's hysteria, it's all in your head, it's not physical. Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating.

Is this the largest mass hysteria since the Witches of Salem, or is it something else entirely? Something's wrong here, something's not right. Leroy was the new dateline, and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

It sounds it, Dana Hall, Yeah, I was gonna say.

You gotta be somebody to go to Dana Hall.

You gotta be someone.

So, after graduating from Dana Hall in 1915, Elizabeth enrolled at Vassar College. She followed in the footsteps of her older sister, Helen. But unfortunately, after just one semester at Vassar, Elizabeth was called home. In the fall of 1916. Because Chester actually died unexpectedly from a sudden attack of pleurisy, I believe, is how you say it.

Oh man.

It's a condition where the lining of the lungs become, like, very severely inflamed.

Oh, that's terrifying.

So sad, and just like, very sudden, yeah, so, Chester's obituary was published in actually a special edition of the Duluth Herald. And he was celebrated. Not only for his political achievements and support of social causes, but also because he, quote, was a good man with sound instincts and large capacities for services. Aw.

Oh, that's sad.

So instead of going back to Vassar, I read it phonetically, Vassar, Vassar. Elizabeth decided that she was going to stay in Duluth quote, feeling like it was her duty to remain at Glensheen and look after her mother, Aw.

That was so selfless.

Yeah, you know, yeah, now. Years earlier, Chester had established two trusts, one to provide for Clara and the children, and the other quote to provide and maintain for my wife and children. A home so long as any of them shall live, making it easy for any of my children who so may wish to occupy Glensheen Aw. So he made sure that, no matter what, his family would be taken care of.

If they want to live there, they get to live there. Mm-hmm.

In simple terms, the second trust covered all of the operating costs of the massive estate. As long as Clara and or one of the children was in the mansion, okay, which would be the case until Elizabeth's tragic death.

Hmm.

So the money that was left for Elizabeth by her father would allow her to live a life of luxury and really not have to worry about anything. Wow, she could have spent and spent and spent.

And never spent it all.

And never spent it all, exactly. But her parents had stressed the importance of helping others the whole time that she'd been growing up. So Elizabeth actually ended up leading a life of service, much like her parents did.

Oh, I love that.

Yeah, when she returned to Duluth, she and her mother became super close. And she was said to be Clara's closest friend and companion. Until Clara passed away in 1950 at 96 years old. Oh so, they were just best friends forever.

Oh my god, and she lived a long time, Clara.

She did, yeah. Now, outside of her familial obligations, Elizabeth became a dedicated volunteer with multiple organizations in Duluth. She offered up her time whenever she could, she would donate, like very sizable donations, to a ton of organizations, regularly.

So she was just doing the damn thing.

Doing the damn thing helping anybody whenever she could. Wow. She might have been one of Duluth's wealthiest and most respected residents. But she actually shunned public attention and appreciation for her generosity. And she really just preferred to live a modest life. That was more, you know, in keeping with her religious upbringing and life of service, she didn't want a lot of recognition.

Yeah, she just wanted to do it and then.

Do it quietly.

Yeah, just go back to her life and do it. I love that, yeah.

Now, when she went out in public, she dressed very simply and conservatively, and on occasions when she did wear jewelry, it was always very simple and elegant. According to one of her close friends. Elizabeth Quote liked to do things for people, but she was very natural. So basically saying like, she got satisfaction from giving, and not necessarily for being recognized for the giving, like praised for it.

Which I think like that whole like idea confuses some people. oh, it does, like some people cannot understand that. Yeah, and like, they....

And then people almost like, think that you are, even if you're not necessarily.

Exactly so, it's so weird. mm-hmm. it's still that way.

But a lot of people get uncomfortable being praised for doing this. And that was Elizabeth.

Yeah.

She didn't want the attention, not because not really for any other reason other than it just made her uncomfortable.

Yeah, like, some people just want to do the nice thing, yeah, and then just have it done and then, like, that's it. They're not looking for the pat on the back about it.

And she was one of those people. But you're right.

Good for her man, yeah.

She's fucking, she's killing it.

Killing it. I love Elizabeth.

But all the time and attention Elizabeth gave to others wasn't exactly without its costs. It often came at the expense of a romantic life. And the thing was, it wasn't that there weren't, you know, suitable men interested in her. It was more that she felt like her time was better spent on other, non-romantic pursuits.

Yeah.

But there was one man that Elizabeth had maintained a close relationship to, according to her friends and family, this man, Fred Wolven, had become or had been a close friend of Elizabeth's for many years. And she actually, at one point, accepted a marriage proposal from him. But eventually, she returned to the ring and told him quote she didn't love him enough to spend the rest of her life with him.

Wow.

Now he was obviously heartbroken over the rejection and he never married.

Wow.

And when he died, he left all of his money to Elizabeth, with instructions for her to buy a ring to commemorate their friendship.

Oh my god.

He just loved her, like, purely wow.

That's like the purest love I've ever heard of.

Like, accepted the fact that she didn't want to be with him.

It's just like, I get it.

Still wanted to be her friend and left all his money to her. Wow, it was just like, buy a ring to remember me by. That's a man right there.

Yeah.

Now, even though she got never, or, excuse me, even though she never got married, remember, she got never married, she got never married. And she didn't really make much time for a romantic relationship. She still loved children, and she refused to let her single status prevent her from having a family.

And she is precious, that little girl.

I know.

She was a cute little baby.

So those friends and family members suspected there was more to the adoption than Elizabeth knew her was letting on, her niece, Mary Van Evera said. There was a kind of feeling that Marjorie was to be the answer to Aunt Elizabeth's loneliness and her feelings of being unfulfilled as a single person. But that also made Marjorie sort of a toy.

Okay.

I think, I think that's just an opinion.

I mean, yeah, in my opinion, that's simply an opinion. in my opinion, that is an opinion.

Now, three years later, Elizabeth would adopt another child, this time from an unmarried couple in Chicago who just didn't have the resources to raise a baby. And she named her new daughter Jennifer Susan Congdon. Okay, and she really hoped that the two girls would get along, as you know, she and her siblings had.

Yeah, doing all that fun stuff.

But unfortunately, she would eventually learn that these two girls had very different personalities and there was little chance of them ever becoming close.

Oh, that's sad.

Yeah, the differences between Marjorie and Jennifer became clear just actually a few years into their adoption. Jennifer was really social friendly, she liked to be around people, She was what people would refer to as an easy child.

Okay.

According to Gail Fetchinger, I believe it is. Jennifer had an outgoing, bubbly personality that allowed her to make friends easily. She liked being around the other members of the family who would visit Glensheen and generally enjoyed spending time with her mother. Marjorie, on the other hand, was introverted and preferred being alone with a book to being with other people. And she referred to her as a complex child to raise. Which, again, opinion?

Okay.

Elizabeth's niece Mary recalled that quote Marjorie liked attention and she was bossy, as far back as Mary could remember. Marjorie had this need to be in charge when she was playing with other children, and she always wanted to have more toys or games than the other kids.

Like, you know, yeah.

When she didn't get her way, she would have a tantrum, she would hit, she would kick, she would scream, and the tantrums and arguments really didn't happen in public. But it was clear to everybody that the problem wasn't entirely Marjorie.

That's tough.

She was kind of just this wild child that never really was able to be tamed. And it doesn't sound like Elizabeth. I'm sure she probably wanted to tame her in some way, but she was. It was hard.

Yeah, it's hard, I mean, even like, because, you know, kids do respond to boundaries, they do like boundaries, absolutely, whether they know it or not.

And that's in a two parent household.

I was going to say, and I have the backup of John, and it's like, but it's not easy. Just because all you want to do is just make your kids happy, and just like you just want to see them happy. So when you have to, you know, put in a boundary or put in a big no, it's not easy.

Well, and then you add the fact that Marjorie is an adopted child, and Elizabeth wanted to give her the best life possible. She doesn't want to have to discipline her all the time, you know, she wants to be like, OK.

It's not easy, some people find it easy, and I'm sure some people listening can find it easy and can understand this side. And there's people who don't find it easy and can't understand the other side. So I think it's just one of those things.

She didn't, and the thing was. Some, certainly not all, but some of Marjorie's behavioral problems did stem from her insecurities about being adopted. She complained actually pretty often that her cousin's quote teased her about being illegitimate. Oh, that's fucked up, yeah.

That would be fucked up if that was true.

And when she was older, she would tell people that the rest of the Congdon family never accepted her because she wasn't related by blood. She said I never felt part of a family. The animosity goes back to day one.

Which those are her feelings?

That's her outlook on it, and that's the thing that sounds very sad.

It does.

But Marjorie even took things like having to sit at the kids table during family events as a slight directly related to her being adopted.

It's like, No, I think it's just because you're a kid.

And it's like, No, that's just how it goes. I had to sit at the kids table forever and I fucking hated it. Yeah, but it wasn't because, like, my mom was a single mom.

It was like slighting me for something, yeah.

Now, unlike her own upbringing, where we know, service to others was really emphasized. Elizabeth actually lavished both of her girls with gifts, trips and other extravagances. Because, remember, she adopted these kids. She wants to. She's, I think she's doing more than the average person necessarily would.

She's just excited because she's in the position to do so exactly, and she wants to. And again, it's very it's hard. You want to see that smile on your kid's face, yeah.

Well, and a lot of people.

And it's a hard balance to hit.

Absolutely, and a lot of people say, like, I've heard, even like, you say this. And you had a, like, a great childhood. But you always want to give your kid more than what you had. Yeah, even if you did have a ton.

Even if you had a great childhood, which it sounds like Elizabeth did, yep, she wants to. Not, you know? Ratchet it up a notch, yeah, do it even better.

And I get it. So both girls took piano lessons, they practiced on the Steinway Grand Piano at Glensheen. And when it came time to shop for new clothes, this sounds amazing.

I want this.

Representatives from the high-end stores would come out to the mansions with all the latest fashions and like trunks for the girls to try on.

To not have to go anywhere.

Oh my God, and just to have, like, the latest and greatest of everything just brought to you.

And they just brought to you.

And try it on in the comfort of your own home, that would be great. And when they went out to friends houses or into town, they were always driven by a chauffeur, so they were living the life.

They were living large.

And actually, for Jennifer, the money and attention made her uncomfortable. And she would kind of go out of her way to avoid being seen. Like in the chauffeur or in the latest fashion. Yeah, she felt like it was a little too like, showy, ostentatious.

Thank you, Tend Wallahs.

But Marjorie embraced the lavish spending, and that began a lifelong struggle with money, characterized by overspending and an obsession with her mother's jewelry.

Uh-oh.

Jennifer said of her sister She always had a spending problem, Even when she was little, She'd steal money from my mother's purse. Ooh, which, like, when you're little and showing signs of that, that's....

Yeah, that's not great.

Not good. When she was older, Marjorie actually got into the habit of stealing her mother's credit cards ooh, and charging up huge bills at local stores. But Elizabeth always paid those bills without imposing any consequences.

Oh, no.

Yeah, the older Marjorie got, the more apparent her behavioral problems became by the time she was enrolled at Dana Hall. Like her mother had been as a teenager, Elizabeth was regularly receiving calls and letters about Marjorie's bad behavior.

Oh.

It ranged from minor rule-breaking to straight-up physical violence.

Oh, wow.

In one instance, when a teacher insisted that which this is an interesting instance, you might feel the same as me. A teacher insisted that Elizabeth needed help raising the children because she was a single parent. Marjorie got pissed and slapped the woman across the face.

Okay, here's the thing. Yeah, don't insult my mom. Violence isn't the answer, never.

It's never going to amount to anything.

Good is never coming from it. Trust me, there's many people in my life as an adult that I've wanted to whack across the face. Oh, 100. There's a few that I would love to right this second.

Yep, same.

But don't do it, it doesn't come, nothing comes good from it. But do I understand the feeling behind it? Yeah.

Yeah, just don't act on it.

Yeah, don't talk about my mom, you feel the same as me and don't act like my mom just because she's a single mother....

Yeah, like, can't handle us.

Like, No, she's got, she's an adult, she knows what, like, I understand why she was pissed.

Don't act on it.

Don't go slapping people, no.

But she told her mother in a letter sent on Valentine's Day in 1949 I had never hated anyone so damn much in all my life.

Wow, like, I mean....

Don't talk disrespectfully to her mom, I guess.

Yeah, I guess she was riding for her mom for a minute at that moment. At least because I have a feeling this isn't going to turn out well, nope, which is really breaking my heart.

She is. This is a very, very tragic story, I mean,....

It's morbid, yeah.

So over time, Marjorie's behavior got worse and worse and worse. She was lying, compulsively, stealing more, she was overspending. And it was really just all too much for Elizabeth to deal with. And when she did recognize that she was in over her head, she took Marjorie to be evaluated at the Menninger Clinic, which was a psychiatric treatment center in Topeka, Kansas.

ToPEKA Yeah.

The doctors considered her behavioral problems and her general disposition to actually be more serious than just teenage problems. And they diagnosed Marjorie as a sociopath. Oh wow, a person who ignores social and moral norms.

Wow.

Right then and there, and the summer between her junior and senior year, she spent long stretches at the clinic, where she did get inpatient care.

And it's cool, but I'm glad that Elizabeth, like....

Took the right steps.

Took the steps, yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And that fall, Marjorie did not return to Dana Hall. Instead, she was sent to a group home in St. Louis. And she finished out her senior year at a school which they then referred to as a school for disturbed children.

Wow.

So things got real very quickly. After graduation, she planned Marjorie to enroll in courses at St. Louis University, but her plans changed suddenly after she met her soon-to-be husband. Dick Leroy. Now let's talk about Dick Leroy a little bit.

Let's talk about dick, you know?

When Dick Leroy graduated from the University of Massachusetts in 1950, he had planned to go on to pursue a law degree.

A umass guy, a umass kid.

But unfortunately, he didn't have a ton of money and his lack of funds forced him to change his plans. And instead, he just accepted an offer from his brother to come to St. Louis, St. Louis and work with him in the insurance business. All right?

Oh, okay.

So they began dating not long after, and they bonded over their shared interests and values, Dick recalled of their early days. She was so exuberant, so full of fun. They were both members of the Centenary Methodist Church, so most of their dating life revolved around the church and its associated activity groups. But interestingly, no matter how much time they spent together, it's kind of unclear how much Dick really did learn about Marjorie. There were definitely skeletons she was keeping in the closet for lack of a better term.

To describe that, that is very interesting.

And had been studying nursing at Washington University when they met, and when she had to visit the clinic. In early 1951. She explained to Dick that she had some trouble in her teens, and her overprotective mother had insisted that she visit the clinic. Ah, so he didn't know anything about her diagnoses.

Yeah.

Which is her personal business to share with whomever she pleases.

But it's just a fact that he did not know, he did not know.

Yeah, exactly. And then, in the winter of 1951, he and Marjorie became engaged, much to Elizabeth's displeasure. She was not happy about this, and it wasn't that she disapproved of Dick as a person.

Right, you know, classic parent worry.

Yeah, absolutely. And she was like, I think she was like, right out of high school when this happened. So, while Elizabeth wasn't thrilled at the idea of Marjorie getting married so soon, she actually couldn't have picked a better man for Marjorie to marry. Dick's family had been financially well off during the really early years of his life. But a series of unfortunate events actually led to a loss of their income. And so the Leroy family had to get used to living without all the finer things. And given Marjorie's tendency to overspend and her general irresponsibility with money, Elizabeth was like, Okay, well, maybe Dick's thriftiness will help balance out that impulsive part of Marjorie.

Like, maybe it will be a nice balance, right?

So, Marjorie and Dick were married on June 30, 1951, in a traditional methodist ceremony. Which was actually held in the large living room at Glen Sheen. And there was an audience of about 150 there.

Okay.

And then they went on a two-week honeymoon and returned back to St. Louis, St. Louis, and eventually got a small apartment in Brentwood, Missouri, Brentwood. Excuse me, at first, things between Marjorie and Dick were wonderful.

All right.

But it didn't take long for Marjorie to slip back into her old habits.

Uh-oh.

A few months into the marriage, Dick was very surprised and confused when he started getting threatening phone calls from creditors demanding that payments needed to be made for items and services that he didn't actually even know he had purchased.

That would be confusing.

Yeah, and upsetting, yeah. In one instance, he got a call from the local grocery store demanding a payment of $400 that Marjorie had recently charged to their account. According to Dick, whose monthly salary at the time was $260..

Oh, no.

Quote that $400 was like the national debt to me. Yeah, because, remember, this is in the 1950s, so I didn't do the conversions, but it's a lot of money today.

And it's like his entire paycheck for two full months.

Exactly like more than even so. A few months later, while Elizabeth was visiting from Minnesota, Marjorie charged several thousand dollars to Dick's accounts at department stores around town. And when Dick confronted Marjorie about it. She blamed the charges on Elizabeth, saying that Elizabeth thought it would be easier to charge the things to Dick's credit cards than her own. Since she wasn't from there, which was not true, like Elizabeth would not have done that.

And when they're going for that kind of very detailed and ridiculous lie, it's like, Oh, no, it's gotten real bad.

Yeah, you're grasping for straws. And the explanation was obviously a lie meant to avoid consequences. But Elizabeth did end up sending the money to cover the charges anyway, because she just didn't want Marjorie to be in trouble.

Yeah, I think she's just trying to put band-aids everywhere she can.

Exactly, and you get it, I mean, she's a mom.

Yeah, she's probably just trying to make it all go away, just live our lives.

She is, I think it's stressing her out and it's something that she wasn't necessarily expecting or used to.

Yeah, which is like, is it the right choice? No.

Not in our opinion.

But you know?

But that's my opinion, that's my opinion. It's from housewives. So the thing was, Marjorie's spending wasn't always on minor things like clothes or jewelry. In the fall of 1951, she started visiting a local stable to see a horse that she'd been riding. And she told Dick that she had been renting the horse for her session. But in truth, she had actually purchased this entire fucking horse from a breeder in Illinois and had been putting off payments by telling the breeder that she lost his address and thus didn't know where to send them.

Wow.

So she bought a whole-ass horse without buying a whole-ass horse, and then lied to her husband and the breeder about paying for it or buying it in the first place.

Damn girl, damn.

That's a lot.

It's getting wily.

How are you going to explain a whole-ass horse?

I have no idea, I myself have never bought a whole-ass horse, so me, either, I wouldn't know the first thing about explaining that.

Me either. But as time went by, it was becoming clearer and clearer to Dick that his wife hadn't exactly been honest with him about her life before they married. In addition to the reckless spending, he had never once seen her leave for any classes or study for nursing courses that she said she'd been taking when they met.

Confusing?

Like, that wasn't a thing, yeah. And then there was the matter of her trips to the Meninger clinic. Marjorie had told Dick that she'd only received treatment at the clinic to appease her overprotective mother. But after talking about it with Elizabeth, Dick began to understand the full extent of Marjorie's mental illness and how it had manifested throughout her teen years.

Yeah.

So, unfortunately, the picture of his wife that was emerging in the months and years after their marriage only got bleaker and more challenging as time went on. Because, really, she had started this with multiple lies.

Yeah.

She said I come from an upper middle class family. That's not true. Nope, she lied about why she had been to this clinic, which I can understand. In the beginning of meeting someone, you don't want them to have preconceived notions about who you are.

Yeah, of course.

But before you marry someone, they need to know about your health.

Yeah, you should at least let them in on some things here, you know, yeah?

And she was like, I'm a nurse, or like, I'm taking nursing courses. That was not true at all. So, in May of 1952, Marjorie gave birth to the first of what would be the couple's seven children.

Whoa?

It's seven babies, and the first was a boy that they named Peter.

Peter.

Peter Peter's birth was quickly followed by another baby next year, and yet another the year after that, and so on, and so forth. Unfortunately, the addition of the children to the Leroy family did nothing to curb Marjorie's compulsive behaviors. But it did give her seven new ways to manipulate Elizabeth into sending money and spending on her grandkids, Jennifer said of her sister Marjorie had no conception of money whatsoever.

Oh, that's so sad.

So it was just getting out of control.

Yeah, it seems like just in over everyone's head, big time.

It turned out Elizabeth wasn't the only one who didn't know what to do about Marjorie's spending and compulsive lying. In no time at all, Dick was falling into the role of the buffer between Marjorie and all these creditors. But when he insisted that he take charge of the finances, Marjorie would become abusive or manipulative. So he would eventually just back down because he's like, please, like, you're spending money that we don't have.

Yeah, like, let me.

We're in massive amounts of debt. Like, can I just have a go?

Yeah, like, just let me give a shot. Controlling this like you tried it didn't work out. let me try it.

Like, I'll consult you, I guess, if it makes you feel better, but clearly you can't manage this on your own. Yeah, so we're a union. But she would not allow that to happen now, despite their best efforts and intentions when it came to Marjorie, in reality, neither Dick nor Elizabeth would ever be able to manage her behavior, and that became apparent in the late 1950s.

Oh, that's not good.

She bought a $32,000 home then, which would be like spending $350,000 today and not consulting your partner.

Wow.

If I spent $350,000 without talking to Drew, I don't even know, like, I can't even fathom that.

No, that's not even a.

Purchased a whole ass property.

Just bought a whole ass home.

Like, what?

Like, Oops, what?

And when she produced the contract for his signature, dick was like, I'm not signing that, like, no fucking way. So she scratched his name off the contract and bribed the realtor with $1,000 from an account that didn't exist.

Wow.

Like, honestly, she was like a con artist as well.

Yeah, it sounds like it.

And by the time anyone had realized what happened, or that Marjorie had committed multiple acts of fraud, it was too late. The home sale had gone through, and getting out of the contract at that point would have cost more than the house itself.

Wow.

So she manipulated everybody.

Literally everyone.

At every step of the way, and just like she had done so many times before. Elizabeth came to the rescue and sent enough money to cover the costs to avoid any upset.

Oh my God wild, we gotta stop this lady.

I know, I know so. Just a few weeks, because nobody was stopping her. Just a few weeks after purchasing the house, Marjorie insisted to Dick that they needed to redecorate the entire place.

Oh, okay.

So not only was she going to buy a $350,000 property now, and, you know, without consulting him at all. But then she was like, we also need a ton of money to redecorate the entire thing.

And it's like, renovations are expensive. Oh my God, anytime you're decorating any room in your house, it's like, Oh my God, like the wow, wow.

So, as he had done before, Dick refused to spend the money on the interior decor and reminded his wife how much they already owed her mother simply for buying this fucking house.

Yeah.

And a few weeks later, the family returned home from church to find their dog and the neighbor dog running loose. Throughout the house and all the living room furniture had been torn to shreds, which, of course, required them to redecorate.

Wow.

Now, Marjorie insisted it was the dog, the dogs, who had destroyed the house, but Dick didn't have any proof. But always suspected it was Marjorie who had destroyed the furniture with a knife and blamed it on the dogs.

Really.

Yup, he figured. He thought that somehow she went in there and tore everything open because the dogs were just like running through the house like crazy.

Yeah, probably making a mess.

How did they, like, slit open multiple sofas and chairs and this, that and the other thing? Wow.

Like, they're not that crazy. Yeah, it's like dogs are wily, but they're not. I mean, not that I've seen that they're that wily.

They probably could. But I think he also knew that she wanted to redecorate the house and was going to do whatever she could to make it happen.

Damn.

Years later, he said Marjorie was the last one out of the house. I confronted her, I knew she'd done it, but she swore up and down that she didn't do it.

Oh man.

Yeah.

Imagine if she didn't? And it's just like the dogs just ripped open everything.

I know, because, like, obviously, there's no way of proving it, but yeah.

Damn.

I would put my money on Marge.

I would also put my money on Marge here.

But throughout the 1960s, Marjorie and Dick's marriage just continued and continued to deteriorate. No matter how much money was coming in from Dick's salary. And eventually, from a trust that Elizabeth set up, Marjorie seemed to always find ways to spend far more than they actually had. Damn, so. Eventually, they did decide to go to couples counseling, which was kind of a last ditch effort to save the marriage. And it was during this period that a psychiatrist elaborated on Marjorie's earlier diagnosis, saying that her biggest problem was promiscuity, with money caused by a personality defect.

Oh, okay.

Which now is known today as borderline personality disorder.

Ah, okay.

So unfortunately, it doesn't seem like she was willing to accept any kind of help for the mental illness that she was experiencing. Yeah, so it only got worse.

Yeah.

And actually, once after they had finished a couples therapy session, the therapist pulled Dick aside and told him, Protect yourself, make sure you have a special fund. Marjorie could wipe you out. Wow, just because there was. She had no intention to ever stop spending this money.

And like, I want to.

It was this is what I'm doing, and this is what I want to do and deal with it, exactly, deal with it.

Oh, wow.

He was done. She begged him not to leave. She promised that she'd be better about spending, but Dick was like, Listen, we've done this before, we've had this conversation a myriad of times.

Yeah.

And that night, he moved into a motel until he was able to find permanent accommodations for himself. And it probably took a while because she had fucked up his credit in a way beyond measure. So in the weeks and months that followed, Marjorie's attitude turned from regretful to confrontational, and then eventually just completely vindictive. When it became clear that Dick was not going to come back to her, she just started badmouthing him. Around town, in front of the children, trying to win their allegiance and turn them against their dad. And as the divorce proceedings unfolded, she did everything she could to keep the kids from Dick.

She would weaponize it.

And then there were other events, like the vandalization of his car in 1973, that, unfortunately, he couldn't prove. But he was very convinced that Marjorie was responsible. Quite simply, Marjorie's position was if Dick didn't want to be with her, she would do everything in her power to make his life miserable.

Damn, that's scary.

It is, it's very scary. In the years after her divorce from Dick, her behavior continued to just spiral out of control. She was getting wilder and just more predictable with every outrageous act. In May of 1974, she actually was able to coerce Elizabeth into co-signing a loan for $345,000 back then.

Holy shit.

She said that the money was for renovations for her property. Damn. And at the time, Elizabeth was 80 years old and in declining health, which Marjorie was using to her advantage. And Marjorie eventually defaulted on the payments. So the bank sued Elizabeth, which forced a civil suit where Marjorie Quote admitted to obtaining her mother's signature by duress and under false pretenses.

Oh, damn, this is so messy.

Mm-hmm, she said. She asked for her mother's signature in a moment where she was not of entirely sound mind. And Jennifer's out of the situation, Jennifer's the sister, yeah.

What the fuck?

Tests later showed that her system had an elevated level of meprobamate, which is a tranquilizer known for its high toxicity. This is terrifying. So basically, people suspected that Marjorie had something to do with this poisoning. Because she was trying to get more money out of her mother, like she wanted her inheritance.

Wow.

But they chose not to investigate the case, I think, because they would probably have a hard time proving it.

Yeah.

And it would just be really messy in Elizabeth's final years of life.

Ugh.

But from that point on, nurses and domestic staff were instructed to pay very close attention to Marjorie's interaction with Elizabeth when she visited now. Things only got worse. The following year, in May of 1975, Marjorie was suspected of arson when her home on the Minnesota-Wisconsin border caught fire and literally burned to the ground.

What the fuck?

A few months later, she got angry with Tom Welch, the bank officer who managed her trust. And several people overheard her, saying she was quote, Gonna take care of that bastard, what the fuck like? Chill out, that's it. I'm like, take a breather.

Eat a moon pie.

Expand People's Money, drink a 7-up.

Stop committing arson.

Eat a moon pie like, you gotta calm down, like, reel it in Sister Jeez.

What the fuck?

Who managed her trust? Yep, now. Later that summer, she ended up moving to Colorado and was arrested not long after that on charges that she stole two cars from a Minnesota dealership after purchasing the cars with bad checks.

She's.