"Kara Swisher"

Hey guys, I'm sorry. I'm really, uh, sorry. I just got here. I'm really out of breath. What, uh, what's happening?

We're gonna do a show. We're gonna do a pod. We're gonna pod. the hell out of this. Are you fucking-.

Well,

I said, were you just-.

Did you have a hat on?

There it is. Are you late because you were- were you-. are you late because you were at a flattening?

Yeah, I just had to get my hair ironed and I can never book this guy.

Because for a while you were crimping it, weren't you? Yeah. Yeah, it was fun. Crimper. Yeah.

Scrunchies? I sure do. Yeah, scrunchies and leg warmers.

Yes, I used to wear my socks as leg warmers.

Yeah, that should be the title of your- there it is- of your autobiography, Jay. Scrunchies and leg warmers?

And then what were the things called where you'd strap on weights to your wrists?

It's a whole-. Jason, I asked you this before. How in the world can you handle the heat that long outside playing golf every day? I can't even handle it walking to physical therapy.

You have to, uh, accept the fact that you're going to be wet and gross and sweaty and then go forward from there. I don't like getting hot when you're not supposed to get hot. You know, when you're not supposed to sweat. Like if you're moving furniture. Or- or how about, uh, acting in a scene that's supposed to be in the winter, but you're outside and it's- you're shooting it in the summer and you're not supposed to be sweating and you're in heavy clothes and it- Or- or-.

Like,

that's- to me, that's the.

biggest nightmare I could ever imagine. Because the hair sticks to your skin, you mean? Yeah.

A dry haircut in a hot car with the windows broken. A dry haircut.

What in the world made you think of that? That's so funny. Oh, no. Hey, you know what? By the way, I want to ask you this.

You're standing inline. If I'm waiting to buy groceries, I'm inline. Yes, exactly. You know, logging into my Hotmail account, I'm online. Online, exactly.

So, so, and in Canada, they say a lineup. They say there's a huge lineup instead of a huge- At the grocery store? Yeah, they'll say, yeah, there's a huge lineup. And they all say lineup. I know.

Okay.

Maybe not. Well, we've lost all of our listeners before the guest.

All right, let's get to it. Uh, you know how I love tough cookies. Today, I got a tough cookie who's super soft and squishy on the inside, full of love. I love this person. She's a super smarty.

I love this one. We finally get this woman back. She's been a friend for quite a while.

Most interviews she does in aviator sunglasses. Let's see if she has one on today. It's the host of On with Kara Swisher and co-host of the Pivot podcast, my brilliant friend, Kara Swisher.

Hi. Thank you so much for-.

She had to suffer. You had to suffer through that. That was exciting, the online thing.

Well, oh, there's the Bidens. You put them on the Bidens. I was before Biden.

Joe, do you hear that? Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure he's listening closely.

Didn't I say, Will, you clowned me during the interview with Biden, and didn't I call his wife by her first name?

Yeah, you sure did. Jill. It's Dr. Biden. It's Dr.

Yeah, like I'm, boys with Joe and Jill. Kara, thank you so much for saying yes to the rude Sean for canceling on you on the road.

I know. I heard it was in your HBO thing. I haven't watched that yet, but I heard it was fine. You should be in full protest. It's fine.

Someone becoming an actor whose career is over. now. It's over. An Oppenheimer thing. It was a waste.

It was a disaster for him. Yeah. No, we had a- It's okay. I could give a fuck, but okay.

Wow. That's what Sean said. you'd say. Yeah.

I was going to ask you if you were nervous to be on today, but clearly you're not. You don't care.

I'm like 10 podcasts in this morning, and I'm prepping for a Chris Christie interview, so I'm really fine. Wait, you just- Did you interview Chris? No, it's Monday. Monday or Tuesday. Something like that.

How do you prep for a Chris Christie interview? Now, I'm a diehard Democrat, but I don't mind listening to him speak. sometimes. He really can frame a position.

When he's attacking people in his own party, he's-.

It's like a symphony. Yeah.

Well, that's the issue is that do you forgive him from his trespasses kind of thing? And I think a lot of people don't want to, because he really was down with Trump for a very long time, until Trump tried to kill him with COVID. And so what happened? That kind of thing. And of course, there's the Bridgegate, and obviously- But he's a great- He was a prosecutor in New Jersey.

And there was also the closed Beachgate as well. The Beachgate, that was a nice thing.

Do you remember that one? Yeah. No. What happened there?

Kara, I remember. Do you want to tell it? You tell it.

Yeah, he was on a beach by himself. Are there all these pictures? Then it became an internet meme, which was my favorite part of it.

Because, and here's why, is because he was using the New Jersey governor's summer beach house, right? They have one. And he had closed, as governor, he had closed all the state beaches for various reasons. I think, for maybe because it was- COVID.

COVID, yeah. Was it COVID?

Yeah, it was COVID.

Nothing attracts the virus like a two-foot swell.

Like a beach, like sand.

But then he was out on the beach by himself.

And that was the first time we ever saw a politician be a hypocrite. It was astonishing.

It was astonishing. But it's called the Jersey Shore. Just remember, it's the shore. There's no beach in Jersey. It's the Jersey Shore.

It's the Jersey Shore. Sure, sure, sure. That's fair enough. But he did wash up there. I mean, there were a lot of, obviously, comparisons that were made to,

yeah. Whales, yeah.

Oh, God. I was waiting for someone to take the softball.

Well, anyway. Anyway, it was great.

We didn't. We didn't. No, you brushed against it. You did not hit the ball. No, no, no.

You had, you just do podcast after podcast after podcast.

Yeah, I do. I do.

And how do you, do you still love to do it?

I love it. I started about 10 years ago.

Are you not podcasted out?

No, I think you guys are doing great.

Are you going to get into radio eventually? What's going on?

No, no, no, no. I actually, no, no. It's a dying medium. No, I actually went to Bob Pittman, who runs I Heart Radio, when I had this idea. And he sat me down.

Oh, yeah. Oh, Bob Pittman.

Okay, Bob, you should do radio.

Then you know who straightened him out was John Sykes.

Johnny Sykes.

Johnny Sykes told him, you're wrong, Bob.

Yep, indeed. But anyway, so I loved it. I love doing it. And I love doing all the different ones we do.

Well, for my sister, who may not know what you do and the brilliance that you are. Sure. You have been reporting on the tech industry since the early 90s. You're like one of the first people to ever kind of dive in with the big CEOs of all of these companies and get into their heads and interview them. And you've spoken to all of them, Bezos, Elon, like just everybody.

And yes, I'm your Circuit City service desk.

You're like your super valuable asset to all of us dummies out here in the world.

Yeah, you seem dumb. You seem dumb, Jason.

It's the hair. She noticed it, too. When I was crimped, people thought I was.

You're the pretty one.

Yeah, well, you should have seen me with the crimp.

No, actually, Will, with the gun show that you were just doing.

Yeah.

What's going on there? No, right?

But what an asset we have in you.

It's a show that's been running for a long time.

And your podcast, the way that you explain and break down things. for all of us, it's so complicated. Thank you. We're trying to figure out and navigate all this stuff. Yes, I want to ask about AI and stuff.

Well, I think the X one is, this is your brain on drugs. But let's start with, well, you know, it's interesting because I knew Elon when he had a failed company, actually. One of his early companies. he got kicked out of. He made a couple million dollars, but was sort of washed up pretty early on.

You know, let me, let me, let me, let me ask you this, because you would, you would, obviously, you know, this. So yeah, I remember when X and PayPal merged and he tried to bring X on. He tried to drag that over and he tried to get rid of PayPal, even though, and there was a big, there was a legal thing there with Peter Thiel. He had a big argument about that.

He got zeroed out.

He got zeroed out. And, and it seems like to me, uh, he's obviously a, uh, a fairly, uh, clever guy. Um, and, uh, Elon Musk, uh, it does, it does appear that he, uh, misled people about his education. Uh, it seems like he did not graduate with any degrees from any of these places that he claims he did, including Queens in Canada. Um, and he does, he doesn't have all these highfalutin degrees that he, and he calls himself a physicist and all this kind of shit.

It's actually, he calls himself a lot of things.

So it's bullshit. So, so what's happening is, is, and Jason, this would make you crazy, because he's actually just, he's just lying about it and nobody just says he's just lying.

Well, you know, look, let's be clear. He's had, look, what's interesting is to meet these people before they had money. Very, you know, they, and they change rather drastically when some of them do, some of them don't. I mean, Tim Cook is a lovely guy. Brian Chesky runs Airbnb.

Sure. Sure. However, at the same time, he's also, so. not only is he lied about that, but he's also misled people about, he didn't invent Tesla. He didn't invent any of these things.

A tech visionary. I mean, I think he sees himself as the Iron Man that, you know, that guy. I think that's who, you know, Robert Downey Jr.'s role there, but he's, he's, he does have technological chops. You couldn't, you couldn't fake it this long, but you're right. He didn't start Tesla.

Agreed. And, and I, and by the way, I'm not suggesting that he's not smart.

I can't believe I'm defending Elon right now.

No, I know.

I mean, he's really, he's a super chode.

Well, this is your fifth podcast of the day.

The one thing that's, that, that sounds pretty interesting, that he's, that, well, there's a few things he's doing. That's kind of interesting, but this, um, is it, is Neuralink or, or?

No, Neuralink is, is, is, or is as a brain, just a chip in your brain.

Right. Essentially. Yeah. Is that as kind of real as they want it to sound? And if so, what is it?

Um, it's the idea of sort of like, you know, you watch the matrix, you put something in your brain and it gives you, and you know, you immediately can do karate or whatever.

It's like a port that you can like put a thumb drive into.

Sean, if you learned karate in a nanosecond, I'm going to fucking lose it.

Wait, what are we talking about? What are we talking about? It's a pill?

No, it's a chip. It's, it's, it's, it's technology that you put. It's, there are some ideas that it could help people who are, who cannot walk. Um, and things like that. Eventually we'll have that.

as opposed to fiber optics.

Yeah, it's, it's a satellite and he's, he's got. the, nobody is as far along as he is. Same thing with SpaceX.

Why is that more advantageous than fiber link or fiber optics?

Cause it's in the air.

Places where they don't have the cable laid.

You can't drag the cable to where you live in Los Angeles. It's all cable. It's all cable.

You got cable right up your ass.

And we will be right back.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare. on our podcast. Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

All right. Back to the show.

All of these tech companies that care that you... I want to stay on AI first, because then I'll ask that last question.

AI will decide what you're going to stay on.

What are you thinking about?

I'm sorry, Sean.

I'm fascinated just by technology. I just love it. And you know, Scottie, my husband lives for... We can't just have a light switch. It's got to be, you know, this button turns this and I can do it for my phone and whatever.

No, I'm not scared of AI. I'm scared of people who use AI. How's that? Like it's kind of, you know, don't be scared of the actual tech. It's like being scared of the internet.

They're not going to lock the pod bay doors anytime soon.

Yes, and decide, hello. You know, I think, when the issue is a lot, this has been around for a while. And, by the way, Elon was an early investor in OpenAI, which was a public, it was a nonprofit.

Which is the company that owns Chachapiti, right?

Yes. And then it had a, it now has a capitalist arm. It has a profit arm. But what it was, was he and others, not just him, were worried about the development of AI. Then that would be controlled by the Googles, the Facebooks, the Apples and the Amazons of the world.

Which all have now their own AI.

That's right. And so, so it started like that. And so it's being run by Sam Altman, who I have huge regard for. I really like him. He had, he's a great guy.

Yeah, I want to meet him.

And no, no, he is. Let me just say- I don't want you to meet him.

He's up. He's up again.

I don't know if you know this. They, they siphoned through who I can see. You can't meet him.

Oh, really? Okay. You can see him. Also, he's a gay, by the way.

He's a gay. I know. I think he's a smart gay.

He's a smart gay. He's, so anyway, so, so what's happened is there's been a quantum leap in computing. There's been a quantum leap in the development of it. It's been going on for a long, long time, like more than a decade or more, longer than that. Machine learning and stuff like that.

I don't know. I have all the albums.

I actually don't know.

You're so smart, Will.

And GAI spells gay.

Guy. Gay. But Kara, it occurs to me that recently I was thinking about like we, we assigned the term AI kind of to everything. Now you go online or you're going to buy something or whatever they say. And it's, you know, it's AI generated or AI, you know.

Well, that's just marketing.

We're just talking about, it's just, it's just technology. That's, that's all it is. Right. So we keep assigning the. Okay.

No, it's not. It's, it's different. It's, it's the, it's the, it's before you, you know, you'd search for Google and then it would come back with whatever you'd like. Will, your name, right? Sure.

Help me understand one thing that our industry is currently battling with, with the, with the strike, both in the, with the writers and the actors. One of the issues that they're concerned about, that we are concerned about, is this, when you're talking about generative AI and the way in which it aggregates a bunch of previously created content or performances, books, movies, all these things. Um, so when it ingests all of these things such that it can train itself, um, to spit back out a result, um, there are people like Sarah Silverman and these novelists that are saying, well, hang on a second, you're training your model based on things that we have done and we should be compensated or licensed to get a license fee or something. How did they think? Cause I am assuming the horse, all of them, the millions of horses, have left the barn now.

No, no, no, no. Because it's not protected by section two 30.. None of this is protected. It's copyright issues. And that's one of the ways they got money out of YouTube.

And let me just say. Help me understand that. Yeah. So let's, let's say that somebody, so for, for, for Tracy or, or people like me out there.

that are not, there's a lot of Jason Bateman. There's a Jason Bateman AI.

There is. So, yeah. So, I mean, I could put a prompt into an AI thing and say, give me a performance that combines, uh, Jason Bateman's, uh, role on silver spoons with his role on the arrest of development, whatever the hell it is. Um, and the people who own those, the people who own the show. Silver spoons and own the show arrested development.

Yes. But you don't because you, you don't, because you signed away your content, right? It's a long time ago. That's why whoever owns the content, that particular content. Now you could pot, there might be some law legal cases where you say, well, it was, this was never imagined that it would take my face or it would take my performance, but whoever owns your con?

But then, sorry, so I can hold onto this track. So then, the people who do own silver spoons and arrested development, have they received a check for this use of that material in order to train these?

They will, they will, they will. I think these companies are not going to, there's now a bill in Congress that will say it's absolutely not protected, section two 30.. You know what that is?

Why does that have to be retroactively challenged in the court? But well, then, why didn't they receive a license before they ingested these?

They didn't ingest everything. They may have made a mistake by ingesting it. They'll go have to go back and pay for the, any kind of copyrighted content that's under copyright.

All the things that are aggregated inside of AI, that are owned by some of them are owned.

by them. Some of them are their, their own data map models. And so it'll just depend on what's in there. And so the provenance of where it came from will be super important.

But, but I guess what Jason's saying, I think Jason would tell me that their entire model is built on information that was not created by them.

Right. But they might own the rights to.

But they don't own the rights to all the books that Tom Clancy has written.

If they're out of IP, they can.

Right. What do you mean out of IP? What does that mean?

Out of, out of copyright.

Yeah. If they're not, if they're not copyrighted.

Meaning it becomes public domain.

They can take Beethoven music.

They can take it. But that's over a hundred years old. Tom Clancy books are not a hundred years old.

They're going to have to, YouTube pays licensing fees. Like there, there are, it does happen. And so the question is what, they can't just grab anything. Although I'll, I'll never forget. I was walking with Larry Page, who started Google, at Google in the early days.

We were, we were talking about it yesterday. The three of us were, one of the things that's going on with our, the labor dispute that's going on in our businesses. is, you know, the, the, the companies want to be able to have this blanket usage of likeness and stuff. Right. And so they're trying to do all right.

A hundred percent. Yes. Because they don't, because they're going to do to what they did before, to publishing companies and media companies, they're going to fuck them. And that's what they're trying to do now. They're going to have a harder time here because they're going deep into the content versus pointing to it, which gives you power.

But what happens while all this is getting sorted out and litigated? Is there an injunction where AI gets frozen? or does these AI companies get to continue to make profits while they figure out who's going to win or lose? And once they do lose, do they then retroactively compensate all of these companies?

That's what happened with YouTube. That's what happened with YouTube.

But that's what happens in American business. That's all they do, which is you keep going, you do whatever the fuck you want. And at a certain point, your chickens come home to roost and you've got to end up paying people back retroactively.

Well, except you guys have given away a lot. I had this argument with a guy, Third Rock from the Sun guy. What's his name? The Creator.

John Lithgow.

Fred Stewart.

No, no, no, no, no.

The Creator of Third Rock? The Creator.

Oh, you know.

Kristen Johnson.

Casey Warner. Tom Warner.

No, no, no, no. I'm going to blank on his name.

Joseph Gordon-Levitt.

No, I love him. He's great. He wrote a great piece in the Washington Post. I'm going through the cast. No, it's not the cast.

I know. I'm being silly.

I'm sorry, Keira.

His name is Terry Turner.

No.

Bonnie and Terry Turner.

Bonwit Teller.

No, I'll find him.

Third Rock from the Sun?

It's a guy who did-.

Bonnaroo. Or 30 Rock.

No, Three Men and a Baby.

Bonzo. Bedtime for Bonzo.

The Two and a Half Men. Chuck Lorre. Chuck Lorre. We were sitting next to each other at a dinner and the other side was a Google executive, a very wealthy Google executive. Instagram had just gotten bought and he goes, why did that guy get so much money?

Well, we have to go to Wells Fargo and get the loan for production instead of the studios. That's right. Going to Wells Fargo to get the loan for production. That's correct.

You have to take the risk.

But that's hard, because your industry operates on fear, loathing, and insecurity.

First of all, Cara, thanks very much. And how dare you? Secondly,

Cara, so all of this tech stuff that you have been involved with, journalism and everything since you started, what drew you to it? Why do you still love it? And have you ever tried to start your own company? And if not, why?

I have started many companies. I have.

No, I meant podcast companies, but I meant like techie kind of stuff.

Oh, no. No, I'm not tech. No, I haven't. I've been offered jobs at all the big companies. I would have been a billionaire at this point had I taken them.

I have a feeling those opportunities are not over for you.

I doubt. In any case, I decided to innovate with journalism. I broke away from the Wall Street Journal, created my own company. Now everybody's doing it, like Substack and stuff like that. Created a conference company.

You clogged the pipe.

He said, yeah, I clogged the pipe. He goes, you made a mess. I said, I downloaded a book, you, asshole. You clogged up the pipe. I said, but I downloaded a book.

And now, a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show.

It seems like every industry would benefit from an equally devised council. In other words, thoughts and interests equally represented from both sides, whatever those are, in every industry, to figure out and to be creative and curious about what the potential problems and opportunities are. Pluses are from this specific thing, this AI thing. Because, like we're dealing with, with these strikes right now, I think everybody kind of agrees we don't have brains big enough to figure out how to language everything specifically into this term of the contract. We're going to need these next three years to really figure out the micro.

Hey, Jay, you know, I've noticed something and this is sort of related. I think that, Jason, you would have been, you would have, you'd make a really good Canadian because you, this is not the first time you've talked about the idea of like, we should, there should be a broad council. There should be a consensus given by a government agency that we can all turn to.

Yeah, right on.

I mean, you're really, you would make a, you would fit right in Canada.

Yeah, yeah.

And I mean that as a compliment. I really, I truly do.

Listen, I love it up there. Yeah, I really do.

But you know, you guys are creative. Look at Sean just did with his show. You know, creativity is not going to be digitized easily at all by in any way. Creativity and entrepreneurship.

They can't copy quirk.

They can't. They can't. And that's powerful.

That's super powerful. Elon Musk can try. But I got rapid fired, like last three questions, because I gotta let you go.

No, we're not going to let you go.

We have like 10 questions for Kara.

Okay, sure. Well, I want to talk about military intelligence because you're like.

You'll love the Apple Vision Pro, Will.

Really? I'm going to get a demo of it next week. Good.

I was supposed to go and I'm, Jason's there and I'm not.

You know what? It's not quite there yet, but you'll, if you get it, you'll get it.

Kara, tell my sister, Tracy, what that is.

Apple Vision Pro is a, is a headset. It's like the Oculus, but it's very different. It's going to, it's going to change work.

It's like ski goggles, but you can, you can see stuff inside it.

You can see through them, actually.

How's it going to change work, Kara? Just quickly.

Because you're not going to need a screen and everyone's like, it costs $3,000.. I said a really nice screen costs $3,000.. I think you're going to have the screens in front of you. And when it gets lighter and better, you'll be, you'll be working in front of you. You'll, heads up.

Touch the dinosaur.

Touch the dinosaur. You'll know what I mean.

That's not a euphemism, right? I mean, it's just, okay.

Porn will be really good. with this. Porn will be amazing.

I've got a tramp stamp that says touch the dinosaur.

But Kara, remember the Google glasses? Like why, why not that?

I have a pair. I just found my pair the other day because it wasn't right. Cause it was too, um.

But then nobody's going to walk around with the whole thing over your head.

It's not going to look like that.

And nobody's going to calm down.

Look at early internet. Early internet looks like shit. Everything looks like shit at the beginning. Remember the headphones, AirPods.

Sean, don't worry. Nobody's walking around to go anywhere.

Sean, look at your baby pictures.

It'll look like your glasses. It'll look like your glasses.

I told you, it's like the automated car. We're all going to be getting in automated cars. People are going to be showing up at restaurants dead.

I just did it yesterday with my son.

Yeah, cars are going to, you're going to order one. The guy, the user before, is going to be dead in it. It's going to show up and they're fucking, these things are going to be moving coffins. Good night.

No, no. I just rode the Waymo yesterday around San Francisco with my son.

What's the Waymo? What is it?

Waymo is owned by Google. And then there's Cruise by GM. And then there's Zeus by Amazon.

It's a driverless Uber.

No people in the cars.

Why would you ever get into that?

It's so cool. I'll send you the video.

Is it like an Uber?

Can you text me that video?

It's like an Uber. Yes. I just put them up on threads.

It's a rideshare thing. Like a rideshare thing. And you call it. They have them in LA. I've seen it in LA.

There's just, they're just starting in LA. They're just, they're in testing right now. But they're in Phoenix going to the airport now. And in Houston, they have long haul trucks, in Texas doing driverless trucks.

They should offer helmets to the riders just for the first year. You don't need it.

You get in a car with an Uber driver who's like 16, and you're good with that. I'm sorry.

I can't wait to do it. Get in one of those and get it and join the foot and a half club.

I have ridden these things.

With my girl.

Yeah, with your girl. Oh, really nice. You would do that anyway with someone in the front seat, is my guess.

I want to know about, okay. So just, okay. Well, I wanted to get into military intelligence, because I know you are into that. I don't want to.

Okay.

Tell me about that. Because you grew up learning about it and then you pivoted, right? Or something, or your dad was into it?

I couldn't go in military because I was gay, Sean. That was why. It was don't ask, don't tell. And I'd like to tell.

I'm going to ask.

Yeah. Remember that? Remember, don't ask, don't tell?

You made them ask.

I made them ask. I couldn't be in the military because I was gay. My dad was in the military.

Fucking, ask me. Fucking, ask me.

Ask me fucking, because I'll tell you. I'll kiss her. I'll kiss her.

And then you're going to ask me. I'm going to start kissing her. And then you're going to ask me and I'm going to tell.

Thank you, Bill Clinton, for that, by the way.

Well, that's too big of a show. We'll get into that next time.

It's Apple. It's Apple.

Apple, sorry.

I really am really heartened by these autonomous cars. I have ridden them for 20 years and they are really getting good. They're getting good. They're getting real good.

The truck thing is an issue, though, right? Because that's a lot of drivers that are going to go out of work.

You know who gets in accidents? No, it's not. There's not enough drivers in this country. We're down 100,000 drivers. Instead, you have the long haul.

But a lot of these automated robots are becoming drunks, and so they're forming... Tell me what... Alcoholics autonomous.

So...

You're funnier than Elon Musk. No, I'm not.

Way to dig that one out, Willie.

That's sloppy. That was sloppy.

That was an Elon Musk joke, just FYI. That was sloppy. That was something I might have heard.

Hey, what's the opposite of artificial intelligence? What? Here it comes. Natural stupidity. Hey, guys.

Like, are you up on that? The Starlink, what it's doing in Ukraine is really important. It is. It is. It's, um, it's...

Now, when you were a kid, these are... And then we're going to let you go. Because these are the things I wrote down that I want to know. I can't imagine, like, I would have killed, to know you as a kid. Like, we would have been best friends.

I was an entrepreneur. I took pictures of people, uh, for their senior, uh, senior pictures.

That's right. So you were a little photographer?

A little photographer. Yeah. Really? In a dark room.

Creepy.

Did you hold on to all the photos and then load them online and digitize them and then own the IP? Fuck you, Kara.

Do you ever come down to Los Angeles so we can, uh, see you face to face and share a meal?

Yes, I do. Yes, I come and... Yes, 100%.

Will you come and have dinner with us?

Yes, we will. I probably, if you mean it. Unless it's just fake in the...

No, it's not Hollywood fake. Well, I'll speak for me. I want to be your friend. I, I, I need more smart people in my life.

Yes, I'd be happy to. I love, I love Los Angeles. One of my favorite places.

Uh, last question I have. Do you ever take a break from tech? From your phone, from your thing, from your computer?

Uh, yes, I have four children, Scott. Sean. I mean, I have... Sean, excuse me. I'm calling you Scott.

No, but I mean, like, do you ever do like a scheduled two weeks? We're not going to do, you know, one of those things?

No, I'm working all the time.

What do you do to dumb down? What's, what's the dumbest thing you do?

I went to see Barbie twice. Uh, no, I love Barbie. I think it's brilliant, actually. Um, you know, I do things like the Succession podcast, which, because I'm a big fan. I enjoyed that, for example.

What are you watching?

Some, some, some bad TV?

No, I think it's good. I, I, whatever. I like, I like Jer... You know who I like? Um, the guy who's in play, Jared Butler.

I don't know why. Gerard Butler?

Gerard Butler. I love him. I don't know why. Sounds like you really love him.

You don't even know his name.

I, you know, he's in all the, and I, Liam Neeson has a new movie that he beats people up. It's Liam.

I like that. Listen, Kara, do you ever... I don't care.

Just kill someone. for me. Just a hunk, that's, that's missing something and needs to find it. You're in.

Do you, let me ask you something. I'm going to prescribe something to you. I'm going to write this down. I'm going to write it on my prescription pad here.

All right, thank you.

What I want you to do is, right now, okay, I want you to...

Yeah, unsolicited advice from a white guy. Great.

I want to take your, take your shoes off. And I want to put your, I want you to put your bare feet on the grass.

Oh, don't do that. Don't do that. I have to listen to tech people on this bullshit.

This is the Long Island guru. Go ahead.

Put your bare feet on the grass. You know what? I have one of those electric pads. Disconnect from your tech. From your tech.

No, no, no. I love my tech. I'm going to, when I was having a baby, this is my last story. I was having my son. I was holding a BlackBerry and texting.

Yeah, love it.

I love it.

Well, I got, I had an emergency C-section and I was texting Walt Mossberg, who was a great technology journalist. And he was my partner. And at all the things I did, I was texting him saying, eight centimeters, seven, whatever the centimeters was. And I had an emergency C-section. They rushed me into the room and it was in my hand.

That's hysterical. Were you one of those parents where you were like, because I know you're a great mom. Yeah. Did you tell them like, put the tablet down, put your phone down? Are you like, yeah, do whatever you want?

No, because we could, my ex-wife and I, that's, I'm married twice. My ex-wife used to be the chief technology officer of the United States and was a Google executive. So they couldn't put anything over on either of us. So we had full control of the situation. And I also could call people.

I love that. Nice mom.

Steve Jobs, we did it with Steve Jobs.

Karen Swisher, I love you. And I love that you're such a great mom.

And that was five minutes long.

That was five minutes long. My God.

Please come back.

Yeah, we need to do a part two. I feel like we're just barely scratched the surface.

You would have been so much better than Matt Damon.

We were supposed to have you. We were supposed to have you on the tour. What happened with Sean? You remember what happened? What happened with that, Sean?

Famous people.

Karen knows what happened.

You put somebody famous on it? Dick, no, I care.

Soon, I'll be more famous than all of you.

I know that's true. Wait, are you dying?

No. Oh, no.

Okay, sorry.

Not today. Not today.

Gladiator. I don't even know her.

I'm such a lesbian. It's so crazy.

I love Gladiator.

Hurry down to LA for some snacks and giggles.

I will. And Sean, I'm coming to New York. I'm coming to New York with my oldest son.

Don't miss the play. Get there before the play's done.

I'm going to the play. I'm going to see Alex Edelman next week. And then I'll come see you.

Literally the theater next to mine.

I will come see you the week after, okay?

Okay, honey.

The gap is this big.

I know that. I'm gonna go see it. I tried to get him on the podcast to talk about it, but he was too busy. He was too tired, whatever.

Too me.

Very tired.

I see his wrist.

I love your show.

Not from the show, just recovering from the carbs.

I don't say I took credits. Sean pulled me aside in Provincetown and said, should I do podcasts? And I gave him a primer on the whole thing.

Yes, well, the first time you interviewed me years and years ago on yours, I was like, how do you do this? Like, when did you do this? So long ago.

You guys have done a great job and I really appreciate it.

You guys were in P-Town just to, what, just try to hit the cliché and the bullseye?

We're doing gay things.

Poppers, phone party. I mistook you for a gay man. You mistook me for a lesbian.

Yeah, we made out for just a brief second. It was magical.

You guys are freaks.

We were at a drag show. We were at a drag show.

All right, we love you. Goodbye. I love you.

Thank you.

Will you text me the video of the car? I shall.

It's really fun.

I'll do it. All right. I love you. Goodbye.

All right, bye. Thanks, everybody.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

That's a great guest. I love her. Just a great guest. Really great.

Couldn't you just literally, like you said, Jay, just have dinner with her and talk about everything? Well, yeah. How does one person have all that info?

I could do a whole hour without you guys, just asking her questions and questions, and questions. I know. Or three, three hours. I know.

That's what I told you at the top. I was like, I don't read stuff or go on the internet. I just call her or text her. I'm like, what's happening with this? Yeah.

How many podcasts does she have?

She's got two right now.

I should start listening to at least one.

On with Kara and Pivot.

And one covers tech and the other one covers journalism?

Something like that. Yeah. I was a guest co-host on Pivot. It was really fun. You would be great.

So you should kind of know. You might want to know.

Yeah.

Oh, here he goes. Hey guys. Here he goes.

Just clear the deck. Shaun's got a vibe.

Audience. Shaun Hayes is now in the middle of, he thinks he might have.

Starting a vibe.

So, you know, sometimes when we pop on and we see each other for the podcast,