Biden Documents, Ukraine Military Shakeup, Bolsonaro Coup Probe

2024-02-09 00:13:31

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4Speaker 4
00:02.30 – 00:06.80

A prosecutor declined to indict President Biden over classified documents.

1Speaker 1
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He also questioned Biden's memory of events, including his son's death.

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How in the hell dare he raise that?

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What does the evidence show?

4Speaker 4
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I'm Leila Faldin, that's Steve Inskeep, and this is Up First from NPR News.

00:19.92 – 00:23.04

Police seized the passport of Brazil's former president.

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Jair Bolsonaro lost a presidential election.

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He tried to overturn his defeat with claims about voting machines.

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Now he faces new evidence that he was also planning a military coup.

1Speaker 1
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Also the president of Ukraine replaced his country's army commander.

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What caused President Volodymyr Zelensky to call for a renewal as the anniversary of the

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war approaches?

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Stay with us.

00:44.18 – 00:46.02

We've got the news you need to start your day.

4Speaker 4
00:53.56 – 00:56.98

On the TED Radio Hour, MIT psychologist Sherry Turkle.

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Her latest research into the intimate relationships people are having with chatbots.

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Technologies that say, I care about you, I love you, I'm here for you.

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Take care of me.

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01:10.92 – 01:14.06

The pros and cons of artificial intimacy.

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That's on the TED Radio Hour from NPR.

01:18.82 – 01:21.76

The Democratic National Convention is underway in Chicago.

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After a whirlwind start to their campaign, Vice President Kamala Harris and her running

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mate Minnesota Governor Tim Walz are celebrating their newly minted ticket.

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And Democrats are pitching their platform to the nation.

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Listen to the NPR Politics Podcast for the latest news from the DNC.

1Speaker 1
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We now know the findings of a special counsel who investigated President Biden's retention

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of classified documents.

4Speaker 4
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His report finds, quote, evidence that Biden, quote, willfully retained the classified material

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from his vice presidency.

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Yet the same report repeatedly gives reasons that the evidence falls short and would not

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be likely to persuade a jury, which is why Robert Heard declined to prosecute.

1Speaker 1
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NPR Justice Correspondent Ryan Lucas has been reading.

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Ryan, good morning.

2Speaker 2
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Good morning.

1Speaker 1
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What do you find in these hundreds of pages?

2Speaker 2
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Well, look, this this is a long report, but it does focus on a couple of sets of classified

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materials that FBI agents found in their searches of Biden's homes and office.

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One are documents related to military and foreign policy in Afghanistan during the Obama

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administration, and the other are handwritten notes that date to Biden's time as vice

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president. Biden jotted down notes in these things during intelligence briefings with

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President Obama and in White House Situation Room meetings.

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Some of this material is classified, and it's some of that material that Hearst says that

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Biden shared on at least three occasions, the report says, with a ghostwriter that he

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was working with. But as you said, there are no charges here.

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The report says ultimately, the evidence doesn't support bringing charges.

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It doesn't establish Biden's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

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Hearst says in the report that it would be hard to prove that Biden willfully intended

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to break the law. And it also describes him as a, quote, sympathetic, well-meaning elderly

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man with a poor memory and says it would be hard to convince a jury to convict him.

1Speaker 1
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And unsurprisingly, Republicans have jumped on that last part, describing Biden as an

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old man with memory problems.

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How is the president responding to that?

2Speaker 2
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Well, look, legally, this report is good news for Biden in the sense that there are no

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charges, but that doesn't mean that it can't still create political problems for him.

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And the parts of Hearst's report that raised questions about his age and mental acuity

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are certainly a case in point.

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There's even a line in there that in his interviews with investigators, Biden didn't

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remember the year his son, Beau, died.

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Biden talked to reporters last night and he took that remark head on.

1Speaker 1
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Let's take a listen. How in the hell dare he raise that?

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Frankly, when I was asked the question, I thought to myself, it wasn't any of their

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damn business.

2Speaker 2
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You can hear in that comment there how upset Biden was.

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And he said there's there's no reason for what he called such extraneous stuff to be

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in the report. And he said the bottom line here is that there are no charges and this

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investigation is now closed.

1Speaker 1
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Former President Trump is facing criminal charges for the way that he handled

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classified documents and, of course, is claiming now that he is being treated

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differently. What is the response to that?

2Speaker 2
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Well, look, the Justice Department rejects any allegation that there's a two tier justice

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system in this country. It's worth pointing out that Robert Herr is a Republican.

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Before he was appointed special counsel, he served as a U.S.

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attorney during the Trump administration.

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Now, yes, you have a Biden case, you have a Trump case, but there are significant

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differences between those two cases.

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Herr even points them out in his report.

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Trump was provided multiple opportunities to return the classified documents that were

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found at Mar-a-Lago.

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According to the indictment, Trump refused to do so and even actively sought to

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obstruct investigators by trying to get others to destroy evidence and then lie about it

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to investigators.

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Biden, on the other hand, he voluntarily turned over classified documents to the National

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Archives and Justice Department after they were found.

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He then voluntarily agreed to FBI searches of his homes.

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He sat down for an interview with Herr's team.

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So, as Herr says, there are significant distinctions between these two cases.

1Speaker 1
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In fact, the special prosecutor says at one point, the fact that Biden agreed voluntarily

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to searches of his home implies that perhaps he did not realize that classified documents

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were there. Ryan, thanks so much.

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Thank you. That's NPR Justice Correspondent Ryan Lucas.

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We now have the story of a former president who made false claims of a stolen election.

4Speaker 4
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No, we're not talking about Donald Trump, but he was friends with him.

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Ex-Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro is facing mounting evidence that points to him

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participating in efforts to overturn the results of an election that ultimately unseated

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him. Yesterday, federal police showed up at his residence in Rio Grande do Norte.

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And forced him to hand over his passport.

1Speaker 1
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NPR South America correspondent Carrie Khan is in Rio de Janeiro.

06:03.60 – 06:05.12

Hi there, Carrie. Hi, good morning.

06:05.24 – 06:06.34

What is the new evidence?

3Speaker 3
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Well, first, Bolsonaro was not arrested yesterday.

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Several of his close aides were.

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And the federal police then unveiled its case of Bolsonaro's alleged participation in an

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attempted coup in this 130-page detailed document, which has a lot of stunning evidence,

06:22.50 – 06:24.52

Steve, much that we have not heard before.

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The investigation names dozens of people who worked with Bolsonaro allegedly well before

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he lost his reelection bid back in 2022.

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They include military personnel, his former defense minister, his former justice

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minister and a national security adviser.

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And the level at which Bolsonaro orchestrated much of, police says, was a vast

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conspiracy to overturn the election results is new, too.

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At one point, police say Bolsonaro edited a document that outlined how the coup would

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unfold, including which leaders in the government would be arrested and who would not.

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And that edit included the arrest of a justice of the Supreme Court.

1Speaker 1
07:00.04 – 07:00.46

Wow. Wow.

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So these things didn't necessarily happen, but he's editing a document that is the plan.

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Can you now fit this into the context of what we already knew about his failed effort to

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overturn his defeat in 2022?

3Speaker 3
07:13.42 – 07:18.30

Sure. He claimed it was voter fraud and that Brazil's all-electronic voter system was

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defective. His supporters spent months camping out in front of military

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barracks, hoping the army would intervene and overturn the results of the election.

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When that didn't happen, the supporters ransacked the Capitol on January 8th of last

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year. Bolsonaro was denied he had anything to do with that attack.

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Unlike Trump, who was the two were close allies when they were both in office.

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Bolsonaro has already been barred from running for office until 2030 by electoral

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authorities. And like Trump, Bolsonaro is also facing many more cases that could land

1Speaker 1
07:46.50 – 07:50.80

him in jail. How is he responding to this latest police raid that grabs his passport?

3Speaker 3
07:51.44 – 07:56.64

Bolsonaro, as always, denied any wrongdoing and says he's being politically persecuted.

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The current president, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, who Bolsonaro lost to, also spoke out.

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He said he hopes the investigation against Bolsonaro is professional and unbiased.

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But he did add he didn't think the coup attempt could have happened without Bolsonaro.

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I want to play you a bit of a conversation I had with Brazilian political scientist Guilherme

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Casarrolles. It was interesting.

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He was hopeful despite learning how the former right-wing leader had tried to undermine

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Brazil's democratic consensus.

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And, you know, that is quite serious in this country with a history of military

5Speaker 5
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dictatorships. Even though there were very powerful people, people in office, in power

1Speaker 1
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plotting against democracy, somehow democratic institutions have worked and have been

5Speaker 5
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able to save democracy from a complete meltdown.

3Speaker 3
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He says Brazilians should celebrate that.

1Speaker 1
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OK, where's the investigation go next?

3Speaker 3
08:48.96 – 08:53.44

Well, there is a lot of evidence to go over from yesterday's police action and possibly

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new plea agreements from aides of Bolsonaro that were arrested yesterday.

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And all of that could prove very problematic for Bolsonaro.

1Speaker 1
08:59.82 – 09:01.64

OK. And Pierce Carey Khan, thanks so much.

3Speaker 3
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You're welcome.

1Speaker 1
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Let's go to Ukraine next, where President Volodymyr Zelensky says he is sidelining his

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military commander as Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine approaches its third

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year.

4Speaker 4
09:21.36 – 09:26.04

He has Zelensky posted on X that the country's army needs a, quote, renewal and that he

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asked his outgoing general to remain part of the team.

1Speaker 1
09:28.86 – 09:30.28

Christopher Miller joins us next.

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He's a reporter for the Financial Times based in Kyiv and author of the book The War

09:34.68 – 09:36.96

Came to Us, Life and Death in Ukraine.

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Mr. Miller, welcome back.

5Speaker 5
09:38.72 – 09:39.28

Thank you. Good morning.

1Speaker 1
09:39.72 – 09:42.38

OK, so the general on the way out is Valeriy Zaluzhny.

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He's very popular.

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So why get rid of him now?

5Speaker 5
09:45.50 – 09:49.78

He was. You know, Ukraine's war effort right now is stalled and in a bit of trouble.

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The country's big counteroffensive last year failed to achieve its goals.

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It's running low on ammunition, on troops.

09:55.54 – 09:59.28

It's on the defensive while Russia has seized the initiative on the battlefield and is on

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the attack. So Zelensky thinks it's time right now to reboot his army command and

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hopefully turn around Ukraine's fortunes to see some progress this year.

1Speaker 1
10:07.86 – 10:12.50

I'm trying to think this through, however, if there's a shortage of ammunition, that's

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not necessarily the general's fault.

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You could say that it's the fault of the United States for not shipping enough.

10:18.48 – 10:20.00

Ukraine's allies for not shipping enough.

10:20.36 – 10:22.92

What would point a finger of blame at the general himself?

5Speaker 5
10:23.90 – 10:27.60

Right. Valeriy Zaluzhny, the now former top general, was in charge of the

10:27.60 – 10:31.78

counteroffensive and him and Zelensky were at odds at times about how to conduct that

10:31.78 – 10:36.04

counteroffensive. The United States was advising Kyiv and Ukraine on what to do.

10:36.64 – 10:40.20

Zaluzhny was listening to some of that, but also implementing some of his own

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experiences on the battlefield.

10:42.62 – 10:47.12

President Zelensky is seen as having made some political decisions about how things

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were to be done and having gone around Valeriy Zaluzhny to speak with his other

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commanders on the battlefield.

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So that's where some of the points of tension come in between the two, Zaluzhny and

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Zelensky.

1Speaker 1
10:58.22 – 11:02.04

I'm also remembering, if I'm not mistaken, that Zelensky is an admirer of Abraham

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Lincoln, the American president during the Civil War who changed generals again and

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again and again until he found somebody who could win.

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So the new guy is Oleksandr Skirsky.

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What do you know about him?

5Speaker 5
11:12.54 – 11:14.44

Yeah, you know, Zelensky does like change.

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He has changed over his government a few times, even before the full scale invasion.

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So he's choosing Oleksandr Skirsky now.

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Skirsky is seen as a close ally of Zelensky.

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The president believes he can trust him to carry out his orders.

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It's true that he's an experienced career commander who has been involved in many

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battles before, including in Russia's first invasion in 2014.

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But he's deeply unpopular with the rank and file troops who call him the butcher

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because they say he's kept brigades too long in battles where they should have been

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pulled out, costing valuable lives and ammunition.

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The best example of that was the Battle of Bakhmut that saw Russia destroy the city

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before capturing it last year.

1Speaker 1
11:50.20 – 11:55.38

Personnel aside, is it clear that the Ukrainian government has a strategy that they

11:55.38 – 12:00.14

think can work to win the war, given the various limitations of ammunition and

12:00.14 – 12:01.36

everything else that they face?

5Speaker 5
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It's working on a clear and consistent strategy.

12:05.16 – 12:09.96

At the moment, it is taking what Skirsky is calling an active defense approach.

12:10.14 – 12:13.90

So that is actually similar to what Russia did last year in digging in deeper,

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fortifying its frontline positions, rebuilding its military and its brigades.

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Ukraine is hoping that it can train some new troops this year, again, fortify its

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positions and essentially put itself in a stronger position than it is now to go on

12:30.30 – 12:32.86

the counteroffensive either later this year or in 2025.

1Speaker 1
12:33.32 – 12:36.68

So a defensive phase now, possibly offensive in the future.

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Mr. Miller, thanks so much.

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Thank you. That's Christopher Miller of the Financial Times.

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And that's Up First for this Friday, February 9th.

12:48.02 – 12:49.02

I'm Steve Inskeep.

4Speaker 4
12:49.24 – 12:50.28

And I'm Laila Faldil.

12:50.36 – 12:55.00

Today's episode of Up First was edited by Dana Farrington, Ali Schweitzer, Tara Neal

12:55.00 – 12:56.22

and Mohamed El-Baddisi.

12:56.22 – 13:00.30

It was produced by Ziad Butch, Ben Abrams and Julie Deppenbrock.

13:00.40 – 13:03.08

We get engineering support from Arthur Laurent.

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Our technical director is Zach Coleman and our executive producer is Erika Aguilar.

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Start your day here with us tomorrow, which is Saturday.

1Speaker 1
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That's when Up First comes your way with Ayesha Roscoe on Scott's side.

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