NBA With Rachel Nichols, Comedians Chris O'Connor And Tommy Pope, Celtics Beat Pacers And People Forgot About Luka

Just happened to work out that way. It wasn't a promotional tour, but we talked about it and it was an awesome interview with both them and Rachel. We're going to talk some Celtics, Game two, Reversing the curse, we got some hockey talk. We've got an all-time fire fest that I would say everyone should tune into.

It's important that you listen to it, so you know what not to look for online tomorrow. It's important, yeah, you listen to it. Get educated and then maybe share what we talked about so that people know what not to share. Well, it's really we're.

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Oh, we're gonna rock down to Electric Avenue.

If your first bet doesn't hit only on DraftKings, the crown is yours. Today is Friday, May 24th and Hank, congratulations.

Game two Blues for the Celtics for the City of Boston. Ass kicking Jalen Brown is he. is Jalen Brown, the guy he took it personally.

Hank actually.

He scored 40.

Jalen Brown might.

He was joking with you, you were so, you were so ready for it. And then Joe showed up in the third and fourth quarter. Yeah, when the God over 20 didn't even score 20 points last night.

You probably weren't going to mention that, I was going to mention that, but yeah, it was a great game. JaLen Brown I knew it. The second they announced all N.B.A. teams, people call the Celtics a super team.

They had one player on the on the all N.B.A. team. Oh, you love that. It's a snub. It was an absolutely a snub. They're the best team in the league.

They had the best record team. Clearly not. How can you be a super team? With one person on the All N.B.A. team? He makes a good point, they were the best team in the league.

Jalen Brown All-star Super Max deserves it all. Should have been at least at least 13, probably should have been second team great defender to a player. The second that got announced, I knew he was going to go off the night.

I knew he was going to take it personally. I say it later in the Rachel Nick Rachel Nichols interview.

I don't know, it's probably earlier for.

He's got, he's got a hamstring and he seems to be tough to come back from hamstring. He might, it's probably real.

O'Shea Can you see? I had two points? He has two more points in the UH conference finals than Joel Embiid. Wait, wait, you mean this year? No, all time.

Oh, did you facetime him? just tell him, just tell him that stat because he'll just get upset, but yeah, he's not here. Um, well, hank, I have, yeah, this series is over, and I have another reason for for why this series is over. Hank. I don't know if you saw this story or you're facetiming, Max.

By the way, we're also taping about to be in second overtime. Connor McDavid.

Oh, Max is speaking. I'm not ready for the moment, not ready for the.

He's not ready for the moment. He's answered as many FaceTimes as Joel Embiid has points in the conference finals. Yes, that's a fact. Pip, pip.

Hank's putting everybody on a.

Um, we're just doing the show, talking about stats and and and Dan. Big Cat Cats host one of the co-hosts One of the three co-hosts brought up a, uh, interesting stat that we wanted to call you in and let you know that.

Yes, I saw it.

Do you think that? oh?

He would be great, he has more points than with a nut with another another that was fleming, I said another, what was 25, like six and seven, is that 23 points?

Yeah.

Do you think there's any chance? If the Boston Celtics or the Boston Police thought the Pacers posed any type of threat, they would escort them and give them that type of treatment. That is a full sign that they know this series is over because that's like a classic. They could just be like, you know what, you find your way to the game.

We'll let you guys miss shoot around a little bit. They don't even have to do those kinds of tricks, they just know it's over.

I don't have nothing to do with Boston Sports, but you got to say it, the guy went down the side of all time video. And then and then there's always a cop that's like, basically in the Celtics team huddle on the sideline, that that cop's got the best job.

Okay, they might lose one. How are you feeling about this finals? Because it really, like, in a weird way, it's, it's just getting juicier and juicier. Well, it's like everyone who says that the cells have played no one, the cells don't win.

They're like, Ha ha, I told you so. And then you have the opposite, where you can be like, Fuck all of you, you know, we beat the west, we we, we steamrolled through the east.

I, I just don't. I flip flop, I flip flop. Yeah, just as long as it's not the nuggets, exactly.

Right, uh, beating Kyrie would be nice, but then there's a little bit of like, scariness, of like, could you know? Does he know the, you know, Jason and Jalen? He was playing with them when they're younger days? And other secrets. Could he, you know, could he stop that? Against us? Knows this, um, but also if we beat the Mavericks and then it would kind of shut you up with your like.

Luca Donchurch best player left in the playoffs, I know, but it would be nice to just be like, Well, if he's the best player in the playoffs, why didn't he win? Because he might.

He's not the best player in the N.BA, I never said that, I said he's the best player left in the playoffs with four teams left. And you took offense to that, by the way, you took offense to that. And then the best team, the best player, doesn't mean necessarily they will win the championship.

I said, the best player.

No, no, there's. There's many reasons. It'd be way sweeter to beat Kyrie.

Also, people bring up the Warriors team and it's like we have Drew Holiday. And of course, I was purchasing. It's like they were not on the team and they're significant.

I'm not upset saying Luca, so let's talk about this because I I watching that game on Wednesday night. Incredible game. It was a little satisfying, even though I do have a future on the Wolves and I picked the Wolves in seven. It was satisfying to watch Luca take over that game in the fourth quarter because people forgot about Luca and the Hanks of the world and the Wolves. Fans of the world think that. If you say Luca Donchic is the best player left in the playoffs, you're saying Anthony Edwards or Jason Tatum sucks, which is not at all what I'm saying. I'm just saying Luca Donchic. It's what he did on Wednesday night is why he's the best player.

No, he has been playing a lot better defense, but the defense that he played last night was incredible. Yeah, I mean, the lob pass he broke up, basically won the game. He was a legitimately great defender last night.

He won that game when he broke up that lob. I don't assume he's a traffic cone, I just think.

So that train continues. Yes, and that was the patients almost beat that. yeah, they almost, they almost bucked.

In the first half, Luca scores 19 points. In the second half, the Mavs like one two punch with the two of those guys and I. It's crazy, but I feel like I've turned on Kyrie where I'm like, I'm kind of rooting for him.

He, he feels like he's enjoying basketball again, he's enjoying being a teammate. He's a good teammate and when he's playing like, he's playing, it's hard not to be like, Damn, this is so much fun to watch.

And then when Kyrie was sitting in with the TNT guys after the game, you could see how much fun he was having. And he was like a fun guy to talk to, he was engaging, he was like listening, he was joking around.

It was like, Oh, Kyrie seems, he seems.

Yeah, it's funny because he is 32, so it's like, you know, he was 29, then, yeah, he was, he was.

Like, are you saying that he's my dad? Yeah, and that environment that he was in Cleveland was just so weird, yeah. And then, when he went out on his own, tried to find himself for the first time.

Yeah, discovers.

Um, cause they just go balls to the wall when they're in the game. And they combined. Finished for, Oh, the oil is just scored. Look at that Connor McDavid off the hook.

There we go. That was a score, I think it was dry saddle, I don't know. Oh, it might've been McDavid.

I think it was McDavid, it was McDavid Redemption. Wow, that would be huge for him.

Um, because he it was that miss was very bad. Who scored their memes? Give it to us. I don't think it was McDavid, I got a notification that, said McDavid.

Oh, it was McDavid, it was McDavid. We need to see a high, we need to see a replay. They're showing everyone.

So it's kind of.

And it was a Rangers zero Stars, zero Mavericks, zero Cowboys, 26.

That's awesome, yeah, it was a great, great graphic.

It's good that he scored that because it would have been bad. That was a that was a bad mess. You don't want to, you don't want to go to bed tonight thinking about that mess. No, no. So the Uh, the Oilers are up one nothing in the series.

Uh, what were we talking about? Oh yeah, the the MAV centers are awesome, they just go balls to the wall. Hank, would you like to have Anthony Edwards discussion?

The the media which we'll get into with Rachel has has forced me to do this because I realized it last night. I haven't. I like Anthony Edwards a lot, I love him, I'm a huge fan.

I enjoy watching him play, I think he's a superstar. But when this, when the media does this Jason Tatum narrative, then I have to watch these games and be like, Where is it for him? He did 19 points, he was bad shooting night, they lost the game.

Agreed, where's? Where are the people talking? He has.

And it's not really you.

I don't think Luca is very buddy buddy. I think Jokic is very buddy buddy. SGA. Like Brunson, Do you think Brunson is like buddy, buddy with all his Nova boys? Anthony Well, they're all on his team and the Edwards was the first guy to kind of say it.

So everyone's like, Fuck, this is a breath of fresh air. The other guys haven't said it, but I I, I don't see the same. Like friendship. It was always weird when, you know, LeBron and Chris, Paul and Carmelo were like best friends.

The super teams are being phased out because the people that would make up the super teams are getting over the hill. Where they're not the young talent anymore, then the new talent is like, Fuck you guys, I'm going to go out and compete on my own. They might one day decide to join forces. They get frustrated not winning a championship.

They might team up with somebody. Yeah, that's how time works.

What I just did.

I'd be meaner.

Do you feel good with me saying That's not good enough? Yeah, okay, that's not good enough. The Wolves, I mean, Wolves fans know that's not good enough.

Also, shout out Luka, did you see the stat of or the the uh, supermax he's eligible for after making All-NBA? Yeah, it's crazy. 346 million.

Yeah, in the Supermax, yeah, it's.

Pretty good, yeah, he deserves it. Um, okay, so we had the Oilers win game one memes, the Panthers win game one.

How are you feeling? Feeling great? Uh, the Panthers absolutely dominated in MSG. It was a sad showing by the Rangers. Very funny memes tweet when, Uh, the the Rangers scored an own goal, and memes said Rangers have scored their first goal of.

Oh yeah, let it out. And now Rangers fans are giving it back to.

All right, oh okay, getting turned on. They love you after your standup.

It's playoff time.

It's playoff time. Hate has to go everywhere, you have to be like Rangers fans hate memes. Uh, Hank hates anyone who says anything other than Jason Tatum is the greatest player ever.

Uh, all this hate has to go around. This is reverse gaslighting. you tried to reverse gaslight me? No Max hates the lottery ball machine.

Yeah, all these things Max hates. What's his name? O'shea, O'shea Brissett?

O'shea Brissett, o'shea, can you see?

You're.

I was like, O'Shea, can you see? Well, you'd sell one? uh, kind of slaps. I had a couple.

Okay, that makes sense, that's.

Right? And then their thoughts, some of them are bad, and they come out. And then people latch onto the bad thoughts and get outraged. And the people get outraged at the outrage. And then now we don't know what's going on. Okay, so I'm I'm happy that I've not looked into this.

Here's the deal. Caitlin Clark is a very good basketball player. she has not won a game yet in the WNBA, she's a rookie, so now the takes are flying.

Got it, but she also got them planes, she kind of got them planes and white, and she's white.

And she has pretty privilege, okay, and she's a woman, and she's a woman playing in the WN.BA, woman playing in the W. That irritates a lot of people.

I honestly encourage people not to. The less you know about, yeah, I've been Clark outrage, the better you'll be, I've felt.

I don't, I just can't, I don't. It doesn't seem like a real thing. It seems like people are just trying to find something.

How'd that go? I don't know. That's how you, that's how you learn who's on the view is when people get mad at those people.

Still alive, she died. Is she alive? What's the woman who's um hocus? Pocus Beyonce?

No, is that woman still on the Goldberg? No, no, no, you know, hocus pocus, what the fuck?

Is this the same? There's joy, I know that there's, uh, Bette Midler Whoopi. No, I don't think she's on the view.

Shit, yeah, she kind.

Bette Midler On the view, I've been like, Yup, a hundred percent okay.

I'm going through the list.

I learned about her because people got mad at her, I don't know these next two, and then Alyssa. I learned about her because people got mad, Alyssa, Farrah.

Great Griffin Yeah, pick a name, that's too many names.

And then Megan McCain was on there and I learned about her.

Let me see a picture of these women. Yeah, that is Bette Midler I I. You could see the confusion.

I don't know, it's on TV and people get.

Okay, but yeah, so now that people are mad at their takes about Kaitlyn Clark, guess what they're going to talk about more? or Kaitlyn Clark or Kaitlyn Clark?

And then the takes are going to get dumber and dumber, and pretty soon we'll all have brain damage.

And then that that conversation happened about race.

When Saquon Barkley bus for a huge run this year, I'm like, but don't forget about Lane Johnson.

What is that like? Be wary, guys, Daniel Jones, you don't want to see him pissed?

I think.

I mean, it's like.

May I don't know why he's pissed off. Uh, let me see, I think.

We got we had angry Daniel coming this year. Oh no, all right, a ticked off Daniel Jones might be exactly what the Giants need.

He's got a chip on his shoulder after Giants failed pursuit of a quarterback in this year's NFL draft. That'd be a new injury, yeah, but also you didn't draft him.

Yeah, oh, he knows how to work a tractor, he's got a little bit of farm country. I wouldn't be upset if Russell Wilson.

I don't know, I can't keep up.

We're going to pay the players, and retroactively, retroactively. So this all goes back to Ed O'Bannon, Ed O'Bannon from UCLA. I think he won that championship in 94, 95, one of those years anyways. Uh, he sued the NCAA about the name, image likeness thing. That's why we haven't been able to play NCAA football.

That's why they took that off the shelves, because they were trying to figure out the whole Nil thing. And that one guy went up against the entire system and beat them. And now the players are going to get paid.

Like, why the fuck are fans like tasked with like, hey, if you don't do Nil, your team's going to suck and then your team just your. Your football program keeps making money and I get it, there's other sports that are probably going to suffer.

Totally get it. I'm just talking about football and basketball, those probably have to separate. I understand that it's all complicated and everything, but from the face value, why isn't?

If if you keep showing to me that, like the Big 10 and the SEC and the ACC keep signing billion dollar TV rights deals, why can't the players get a little of that? That's again, I've probably oversimplified it. People will say, I'm stupid not seeing it, I don't know. My take remains the same with all this stuff.

Get me to the finish line. Just tell me when we're good with the new future of college sports, tell me when we're done with the conference realignment, tell me when we're done with. Like, figuring out the intricacies of paying the players. Just tell me the end date and then I'll pay attention.

Cause I just want to start a new normal, because as soon as we start it in a year, two years, three years, we'll be like whatever. We can't even remember how it used to go, I just.

This is a great idea, he said. Imagine Harvard using their $36 billion endowment to pay their football players more than the NFL. The funniest outcome is Harvard having a payroll of $300 million a year to football players.

Minor detail Jeffrey Docket missed. Yeah, I think it's like $20 million each team can pay, it probably makes sense.

Yeah, it does make sense. So I would be if again, there's a lot of details I'm missing that we will have someone come and explain. Jay Billis, if not Jay Billis, Uh, agree to disagree on that one. If it's $20 million, uh, every school, every power five school, cause I don't know how it's going to work for everyone else. But every Power Five school gets $20 million and you can't pay any more. Uh, I think that's actually a good thing.

Now there's obviously still going to be nil, there's still going to be boosters, so it gets murky, but on the face value.

Uh, there is. There's going to be some implications. It's going to look different, and I don't think anybody out there fully understands what it's going to look like in three years. What all the changes are going to be? But as I think, one point that Jay did make when he was on the show, um, when he wasn't being disingenuous, was that. If there are teams that are are able to pay players to a higher level than other teams, that doesn't necessarily mean that the second level teams are going to suffer because of it, because they'll concentrate more of their money on the guys that weren't quite good enough to get those very top tier offers and get paid more money by the smaller schools that could afford to give a bigger.

Also, Nil. I think it's still athletes are going to be doing advertisements. Yeah, no, they are, yeah, so that's.

ChaRLES BaRKLey That was the last thing I actually did ever written down. But good job, pug and memes, um, Charles Barkley said. It sucks for all of us, uh. And he blamed his bosses for not wanting to get the NBA on TNT or keep the NBA on T T on TNT.

Um, I did. Like. The Charles, Barkley said, there's a chance he's just going to hire the guys to his. Uh, what does he have production company and then just sell inside the NBA to whoever gets the rights? Charles Barkley?

Uh, but they should do that, they we need at at at very minimum. We need Kenny, Shack and Charles together. Ernie, we'd like Ernie, we'd like Ernie.

I would like very much for him to be a part of whatever the next iteration is. But I feel like he's going to stay at Turner no matter what. So.

So instead, he's going to just do weird shit and gimmicky shit to try to, like, juice it up. And it's like, dude inside. The NB.A. is more important to the N.B.A. than the in season tournament by a large margin. Like those are not equal to me. Yeah, in terms of the consumption of, like, what? The culture around the sport, the way the sports talked about, like this is, it's entertainment.

These guys are a big part of the fabric of the N.BA, it's like.

Who would be on that desk? It's like, Well, they do. Every network tries to do it. Nobody is as good. I would watch inside the NBA as a pregame for NFL Games.

Yeah, they don't even have to watch the games. I just want, like, show the teams and then let Charles Barkley make fun of the jets. Tnt got college football.

Like, I would watch this show, everyone tries to do this show. The only people who have done the show successfully is TNT. And inside the NBA, it really doesn't matter.

So you're probably gonna.

We got Rachel Nichols and then we have a very funny interview with Chris O'Connor, Tommy Pope, two hilarious guys. They're also in Shane Gillis's new show, Uh, Tires, on Netflix. Now. Go watch it, I'm going to binge it tonight.

And then reminder, Uh, we will have a show on Tuesday and then a show on Friday next week. We also are going to try attempt the John Daly challenge on Monday night. So Tuesday show might be rough to listen to, but we will be back. We have a huge interview Tuesday, big, big guest, Uh, so everyone enjoyed the long weekend?

We'll see you Tuesday. Stay safe. I have another one.

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Okay, we now welcome on one of.

RACHEL, Great to talk to you, great to have you back on, um, N.B.A. playoffs. I actually wanted to start with a question which you might actually have more insight in because you did an episode. No, not how the bowl's doing. They stink.

Uh, you, you did an episode of your show with these two guys. But I wanted to start with Luca and Kyrie and in talking to them, uh. Cause the Mavs obviously won game one. What has changed with Kyrie? And made him all of a sudden like the best teammate and a guy that I find myself rooting for again?

I think it's a bunch of different things. So he's older, right? I mean, we all get a little bit more mellow as we age, and I think, more perspective. Some of the things that seem very important to us when we're younger, kind of we're like, Okay, I got it, we're good.

Um, so I think it's a little bit of that, uh, I think it's a little bit of location. I mean, being in New York especially, uh, it's a lot being thrown at you every day. And I'm not sure that that was the right situation for him. Um, so being in Dallas, where there's a little less media, it's a little looser. That kind of thing I think has helped.

The biggest thing, though, is Jason Kidd, his relationship with Jason Kidd. Kyrie Irving attended Jason Kidd's Hall of Fame induction. Which shouldn't be a big deal. Because we have former players, you know, our current players and former players attending other guys all the time, except that's at the invitation of the player, right? Um, Jason Kidd had no idea Kyrie was going to show up, didn't invite him, no special arrangements for him. Kyrie grew up watching Jason in New Jersey and he was like, Yeah, I want to go, Jason. My favorite player is getting inducted to the Hall of Fame.

I want to go. So that tells you the respect that's there and sort of the way that Kyrie feels about him. So that when the Mavs were interested in him, Jason was a huge part of the sort of selling point on both sides, and the relationship they have is so good. Because Jason is very careful in how he talks, and I don't want to say careful, like it's practice, but like he knows, he knows how to talk to Kyrie. In terms of, hey, I respect you.

I respect your point of view. If I didn't, I wouldn't mess with you. Um, but here's the times to say things, and here's not. And Kyrie had a great line to me about this, he goes. I've learned not to touch the stove when it's hot.

And I think that I think that that's a good. You don't have to say everything all the time, you don't have to answer every question, you don't have to make every belief you have. Public. Um, because this is letting him be who he is, and Jason's big on, he doesn't have to be a robot.

Like, he's an artist, he's a this, he's a that. Let him go do all that stuff. Respect that part of his life, but also focus on basketball.

Kyrie's so settled in even more than last year. He's such a leader in the locker room. Which again, if you talk to people in the Brooklyns, they're going to be like, What the hell are you talking about? But um, he is a hundred percent doing all the things that Luca at age 25. He's capable of it. But he's not like pulling guys aside for, like, heart to heart, or giving them advice. You know, why is it by? He's 25 years old and he's kind of in the middle of all this stuff now.

So the fact that Kyrie is willingly stepped in to do all of that, the guys in that locker room love him, it's really unbelievable.

So that all kind of makes sense. Their relationship has let Kyrie be Kyrie. Yeah, a hundred percent, and the respect is there, I mean.

That's so engaging, right? It was so much fun to watch him play. I think he can say things to them that, frankly, a lot of these coaches today who came up more through the other side, they can't. And and you're never going to respect a guy as much as a guy who's not only done it at the level you've done it, but done it at a whole same level. You feel like I can take advice from him.

If you're Luke, as opposed to who are you to tell?

What if Steve Nash had been from New Jersey? Would it all been different? Yeah, that's what it's.

Wouldn't it be different if we were all from New Jersey? It would be the world would.

I actually, we won't talk about the Wizards on the air because we'll just bore people to death with it. Just say that I'm buying stock in the Wizards right now. I like what they're doing, um, but the Do you want to bore people? talk?

Yeah, I'm still upset, I'm buying stock in the football team, I will say that.

You're very lucky, he tweeted out last night. Luca Donchic is one bad bleep bleeper. So what is bleep bleeper? Because that?

I.

Maybe he bleeped.

Obviously, you know, he was frustrated that they got to the Western Conference finals and then the season wasn't going well and all of that stuff. So, you know, there's been a big push. Keep Luca happy because you don't want a LeBron James in Cleveland. The first time situation where he's just like, Okay, I like it here, but if we can't win, I'm going somewhere else. So they really want to make sure that his development keeps, you know, tracking up and his success keeps tracking up, and they believe in him, obviously. So it was a lot of, who can we get at this level? So they both really wanted to make it work, but it was a little rocky at the beginning because they didn't know each other.

And that my turn, your turn. That actually happened more at the end of last season, where it was kind of like, Okay, you, you go and then I'll go. And you can't win basketball games like that. So it took a while for them to develop actual chemistry on the court. And that's just reps, right, getting to know each other. It took a while for them to get to actually know each other.

They're pretty different dudes, with pretty different backgrounds and pretty different interests. You know, Luca is a little more of a bro. Kyrie is very cerebral and in terms of, you know, everything is very analyzed. But they have a lot of common ground, too. They both love the game.

They both love to win, they've both been around enough that they can tell stories to each other. And I think Luca really learned that Kyrie could do the parts of the job, both on the and off the court, that he has always found. Just a little heavy and a little frustrating. And Kyrie found a guy who can do the stuff off the court and, frankly, on the court, that he kind of had been looking for. I think if these guys came together and Kyrie was closer in age to Luca, if he was like 27, it just wouldn't have worked.

But Kyrie feels like I'm the elder statesman. Now I can be in this position. And it's so fun to watch them grooving on the court. They have so much like. They both love each other's game and that's, you know, they put each other in great positions.

And now he's somehow overrated, which was our ratings like, we're the.

You know, the stars, who are around 25 26 year old, are more a little more mild mannered, right? They're not talking trash on when they know their mics, they're not calling out irving after a game, which is unbelievable. You know, they're not, they're not saying they should be starting, they should be doing this. Um, you know, he's such a great personality. John Morant is spectacular. But obviously there's a lot of parents who aren't sending their kids to be like, go with the guy, go emulate the guy with the gun.

So I think John's going to have a spectacular future. And I actually think that he's really fun guy to talk to. And I think I think he's going to be a success. Uh, but there's nothing not to love right now, so I think that's part of it.

And then, yeah, the Young Jordan thing is real, it's just the problem is that everyone took that to mean Jordan, right, so the young Jordan thing right was. Kevin Garnett was doing a show with me and he's like, Oh, he's, I love him, he's great.

He's an 84 Jordan, right? So he's. He was one of the first to, like, really publicly make that. And I was in the middle of the season and he was saying, 84 Jordan. And we were on the set with with a bunch of other guys. And like, Rondo was like, Dude, he's not Michael Jordan, and KG was like, No, no, no.

Like, Uh, you know? 84 Jordan? 84 Jordan. Yeah, yeah, and that guy's, you know, not KG talks. that guy's nice.

Um, so I saw Ant like two weeks later. And I was like, Kevin Garnett says, You're like an 84 Jordan, and he was like, I like that 84 Jordan. Yeah, that's me.

That's me. That doesn't mean that Kevin Garnett, or anyone else who is in the league who's followed, thinks that he's a six time N.B.A. finals winner. They just think that he bears a lot when, when M.J. wasn't winning yet, that he was, you know, showing a lot of the characteristics of that player. And I personally, I don't think it's even possible for someone to win six rings anymore. Like, maybe as like the expert guy who goes hops from team to team or something, but as like the main guy. I just don't think that's available anymore.

I mean, I don't think anyone can be the next Jordan in totality because you have this influx of international talent. Look at all the MVPs from the last five years, they've all gone to international players. All three guys who are MVP finalists this year were international players. Like, the competition is so much thicker from team to team and game to game. I just look at Denver, right?

If they were in a different, more watered down NBA, like, they were cakewalk to the finalists. They're so good, but that's not what the N.BA is anymore. Every team has some great players. Yeah, well.

He's a great player. I'm only teasing, I'm only teasing.

Yeah, it hurts, it hurts, yeah, but that was it.

Yeah, I mean.

And Jason Tatum actually spent this past summer working out with Paul Pierce every day, like they were in L.A. every morning, seven, 30 or whatever in the gym together. I asked the Celtics owner a couple of weeks ago. I was like, Hey, I'm watching this all summer, I'm seeing the clips on social media. I talked to Paul.

Um, I was like, Do you want your young star hanging out with Paul Pierce? Like, what are we talking now? I mean, Paul was in the room when I asked the question and never left. And he was just like, Yeah, he's like for the workouts, sure.

Paul was like, I tell him, after we're done, you go your way, I'll go mine because I got different, I got different job than you. So, yeah, I think those guys are connected to to the Celtics. Um, I know you're going to see Paul for a side of games. KG just doesn't go to as many games, so I don't know if he's going to show up or not, but I'm pretty sure that you will. You will see some of those 08 Celtics even more at these playoff games because that organization, there is such a history.

There is such a connection that I feel like, you know.

Yeah, do you?

Yeah, he's very sensitive, He's very sensitive. If you say, if you say yeah. If you say Jason Tatum, uh, had a bad quarter, he will get very upset. I give you a look.

Yeah.

They had many chances to wrap up the game, they didn't, the biggest one being why in the hell was someone inbounding the ball on their own half of the court when they had a timeout and could have advanced the ball of the court? Like Jaylan Brown, can't hit a three if they're not on that side of the court. So I can't, even I can't even understand some of the crap that happened.

However, once they got to overtime, Boston still had to win the game, so the Pacers choked the win. But what, I've had these arguments over the last two days, with people being the goal, they handed them, they handed the Celtics to win. What about the way the Celtics have or have not shown up at the end of really big games? We've criticized them for over and over again? Would tell you that's a foregone conclusion.

Jaylan Brown had to hit a shot at the end of regulation that he is hitting these days. Corner threes 22 of the time. That means 78 of the time. That ball would not go in right. And then in overtime, the Pacers actually scored the first bucket, so Indiana could have. We've seen at times where teams winning and then they go to overtime. And then they just were like, Great, we're putting our foot on the gas and keep going. And Boston was like, No, we're actually the ones who are going to keep going.

And they totally over-matched them and Tatum in the final minute hit that huge three. That it was only one point game. And if that ball missed, they're running down the other side of the court and Pacers even it up. So I agree with the choking on the Pacers side, The Pacers agree with the choking, they've said it.

They're like the mistakes were on us. We lost ourselves the game, but they didn't make Boston win. Boston actually won.

Even if it was true, no, the reason why I wanted to talk with.

You didn't talk about?

He's been in six of eight conference finals, like, how, how? has everybody against him? Well, people expect.

Yeah, Luca's just true, he's one of the top three players in the N.BA. That's just a fact. Jason Tatum is probably four or five.

That means other people are worse, but then those people are better than other people. Hank doesn't agree with that. Yeah, the idea that there could be a question in the series I'm at, I'm at the Timberwolves Dallas series right now. That like, Oh, who's the best player on the court? I'm like, guys, we know who the best player on the court is.

The best player on the court is Luca Doncic. That doesn't mean his team's going to win because Minnesota is deeper and Minnesota has guys who are right there under him. And Anthony Edwards is ascending and all that stuff we're talking about. But this whole like, Oh, would you rather have Ant than Luca? No, it's crazy, thank you.

Generational talent. Thank you. I just think we, we, we gotta, you know. And Jason Tatum is fantastic, but he's not Luca yet. Maybe he Jason Tatum could have an amazing summer, right? Let's say they get to the finals.

Let's say they win the finals, let's say that he, you know, hits these money shots. We haven't seen him, you know, kind of sink. Some of the real game-winning N.B.A. finals, kind of, you know, the whole world is watching shots. Yet if he can do that, if he can power through and kind of create that. And then he's going to be on Team USA that this summer, everyone's going to watch those games.

It's like the best team since Barcelona and the dream team, right? So if he can have a good role on that team and look good and be playing with players who make them look good. And against competition, that will, frankly, largely make him look good. People could have a totally different opinion of Jason Tatum as a whole by the end of the summer than they do right now. He's going to do that stuff.

And Ant nailed it.

J hired in L..A. and then left the Lakers to go to because he knows that he doesn't get along with coaches. That'd be too big of a spotlight on J..J for his first stop.

So I'm going to leave town because we're Bros. We can still do the podcast. But what do you think is going to happen with those coaching vacancies? If you could read the tea leaves?

And people like to blame him for a lot of things. And then if it goes sour, if it goes south. You can be like, I didn't ask for him, Hey man, I didn't ask for him. And you can check out if you want to. Or you can be like, I don't like him or whatever I get all that.

That's the advantage for LeBron, but it's not the advantage for the organization. You want to make him have ownership of it, you want him to say I like this guy, I can work with this guy.

For that very reason, Darvin Ham's relationship deteriorated with LeBron and Anthony Davis over the last three or four months of the season. And that was it, he was out. So if the organization wants a coach where the players feel a little obligated, like we're just talking about Luka and Kyrie and Jason Kitt. That respect is just earned over being a Hall of Famer.

In the N.B.A. you've got to have someone, even if you're putting in a guy kind of, you know, more, just sticking him in there. As opposed to a lifelong fandom. You have to have a guy that the players are willing to say we stand by, this guy, we believe him, we'll listen to him yell at us. So if I'm. The organization that, by the way, has had six coaches in 13 years and recognizes that Front Office, recognizes the carousel is not working.

It's not quite the bubble, it's not how you win championships long term.

They've got to have buy-in from the Stars and if I were the Lakers, I would say I appreciate. You don't want to be involved, we don't have to share with anyone, you're involved, we can do it behind the scenes, but we need you involved.

So I don't know how that's going to play out. But when I saw that, I was like, Eh, that's not the best version of this. Yeah, yeah, maybe Pat Riley comes home.

I think Pat Riley and LeBron have, like, it's softened a little bit, the like white, hot hatred that was coming from Miami after LeBron left. I think maybe it's turned down a little bit, but I would not expect Pat Riley to be. I'm out of ideas. Then mentoring, coaching or management.

Tom Kreen Tom Kreen Tom Kreen coached up Anthony Edwards.

Obviously, Ant Rudy is, he's outspoken, he's like aloof and kind of goofy, but I feel like he is an outspoken guy. Cat. And then you've got some role players too that I feel like Nas Reid might be a leader of that team too when they're just with each other. Mike Conley, Mike Conley.

Yeah, so behind closed doors, who's the straw that stirs that drink? Who is the alpha on that team? Well.

I'm not dealing with this. And he actually championed Ant being the alpha even before it really happened. He was like, This guy, this is the guy, this is the guy, and so I think he should get credit for that. Ant is a hundred percent the alpha.

In terms of, he's the most outspoken, he plays as hard as he can on both sides of the floor. And that has earned him kind of premature respect from guys who are a lot older than him, even though he's only 22 years old, he is the face of the team, he loves talking shit, he's a hundred percent what we consider an alpha.

That does not mean he's the leader behind closed doors. I think that Mike Conley's importance to this team cannot be understated. And I think it's kind of like, Kyrie, I'm not sure. You can be 22 and be the guy behind closed doors who can really pull guys aside and give them advice. Or have the heart to hearts or whatever, because you're just filling it out yourself. This is Anthony Edwards first conference finals, all of that stuff.

Mike Conley has been around the block and I think because he's so well liked, he won Teammate of the Year, that award again. I think this is not the first time this season. He has this way with everyone, no one feels like he's pulling anything on them.

He just wants them to succeed. He's got a great temperament and personality, so I think it's kind of they've handed off different parts of that role to different guys. And then Rudy, Man, I did an interview with Rudy this morning and man, he's still. We were talking about defensive player of the year and he is still not so happy about how people feel about him winning, yeah.

Yeah.

What were you? Were you in for that? or no? Uh, yeah, I'm in for it. I just, you know, it's a regular season award.

He deserves to win the award and then we watch the playoffs. And it's like there's been times when he's been played out of a series where it's like, you can't even have him on the floor. Not talking about this year, but in past there were a couple of games with Yokich where he just.

All right, good, he is fucking amazing. Yes, like, I mean, there's you need to use the curse word part, because there's no other way to say it.

Like, if you're bored by him, if you don't think he's good, if you're like, Oh, he's lumpy, and I don't know. Like, you're just not paying attention, or you don't know basketball like, he is exceptional, so yeah, he embarrasses a lot of people.

I was shocked, he embarrassed. Rudy Rudy gives his critics evidence, he hands them things to criticize them about. But I kept saying I voted for him for defense player of the year.

And people gave me the hardest time and I was like, like, how can you match him with Hakeem Olajuwon for four defense player of the years? He's not at that level. I'm like, Hakeem Olajuwon was not on the ballot, guys.

Right, like, I can only vote for who played the best this season and his numbers. And anchoring the number one defense and having a team finished near the top of the conference. And we don't have to worry about this next year when he's going to win the next, you know, five or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

It's a.

Yeah, it's very weird.

So that's why he gets away with it, because the refs don't understand.

And and he knows he can't do this as much, and it's distracting for him. It's distracting for the team. He doesn't get down to the other side of the court, he doesn't win.

These arguments like, why is he doing it? We've gone through. Luca saying, You know, he had a game in the last series where he didn't talk to the officials once. And so, of course, everyone noticed. And afterward we asked him, Hey, what was that?

And he's like, Oh, everyone sat down with me, Jason Kyrie, you got to stop doing this. They kept telling me, You know, what's? Why do you play basketball? Remember the joy of the game? Remember that it's fun.

Like, that was the approach they took this year, They've taken like six approaches with him. This this year's approach is remember the joy of the game, remember how fun it is.

Just have fun, don't worry so much about all this stuff. And he played one game like that and the next game he was right back to arguing every single time. So I don't know how you fix it.

It's hurts him more than it hurts anyone else, and I I don't. He's such a great and smart player.

That's why he got into playing basketball. Yeah, he just likes to.

Cause they get called from them. Yeah, yeah.

Uh, this is just who's going to, who do you have in the finals, who you have winning? It's always nice when we have people on later on in the in the playoffs because you just have a better chance of getting this right. Like, we'll have, we'll probably have Priscilla on like, game five of the finals and be like, all right, who do you got winning? But okay.

Now who do you have? Cause you can get credit for it.

I still can't tell you what happened in the fourth quarter of that series. I mean, obviously Minnesota played, you know, great, but they had to, you know, Denver, Denver. just just. I don't understand it. So I was willing to put Denver up against everyone. Now that the team I thought was kind of unbreakable is gone. I my berries are not right.

I think whoever comes out of this series could absolutely win the finals and with the Celtics, you just don't know. And I don't want to disrespect the Pacers. I would not pick them in a finals matchup, I would not pick them in the conference finals matchup.

Like, I'm picking the Celtics in that one, the Celtics. You don't have enough information to know if they're good enough yet. And it drives, I know Hank's probably boiling over there, it drives Celtics fans crazy cause.

Like, we can only play who's in front of us. Yeah, but that doesn't mean that I now have enough information. Like, I don't know, I don't know if you have what it takes, because I haven't seen it yet.

I did not see it in the NBA finals that they played against the Warriors, where they just kind of fell apart as that series went on. Like, I have not seen the evidence yet that you can win an NBA final, that doesn't mean you can't. And I absolutely believe that they could, but how would you know you? Just they haven't been there and showed us that they could.

So that's not their fault, it doesn't mean that they can't win. But I couldn't call it once we get to the finals. Because the Celtics are like a black box, you just don't know what's in there yet.

Thank you, thank you.

I mean, the funniest possible.

I want to see the Celtics do well. I support my friend Hank. I want nothing. He's a heartbroken Massachusetts sports fan.

Has not had a lot of success I want.

Yeah, yeah, right, Hank, we got your back, yeah.

I feel like the Celtics fans are.

It does no, it's 100 true. I don't want.

We would hate to have to podcast about it. Rachel, you have to. You're going to hate watching Hank if he loses in the finals, everyone.

If Boston can't win game two, but they've got one tonight.

I had to learn a lot about gambling and how parlays work. I'm going to just admit that this was not my natural. I'm not an expert to be with, but I'm proud because I've had more and more wins lately. I had a triple win parlay on the Celtics in the last game and I got it, wow.

Congratulations. You should brag about that, yes, since he was saying Jalen Brown's going to drop 40, I was like, Yeah, I picked Jalen Brown's numbers, I picked Jason Taylor's rebounding.

I had Al Horford, I was in, I was rolling, What do you have tonight? There you go.