Dark Brandon: The Sequel

Then Dan and I sort through the many wild rumors and theories about why Fox News fired Tucker Carlson. Fun stuff. But first, cricket's newest pod, Pod, Save the UK, is launching May 4th. And if you like to laugh and cry about politics, you're going to love this show. Love it.

Tommy and I sat down with the hosts Nish Kumar and Nish for a special bonus crossover episode. We tackled some really important issues, like what the USA and the UK really think about each other's politics, how to turn political outrage into action. And, of course, what really happened to the Queen's corgis when she died? Which you can imagine, love it brought up. Here is a sneak peek. It's a very historic phrase that we use here in Britain, and it is chat shit, get banged.

I love that.

It's true, and what I promise, I mean, this genuinely. There is a lot of chatting shit in politics, a lot of flagrant lying and not enough getting banged. And I think really the general public, and I'm serious, I feel like people need to see some consequences to the constant lies.

I have a note about the episode from the producers afterwards, saying that it was great. But that quote, they did have to cut all the bestiality stuff.

Let's listen to some of the announcement video. But, you know, around the country, major extremists are lining up to take on those bedrock freedoms. Cutting social security that you paid for your entire life, while cutting taxes for the very wealthy, dictating what health care decisions women can make, banning books and telling people who they can love, all while making it more difficult for you to be able to vote.

Every generation of Americans has faced a moment when they have to defend democracy. Stand up for our personal freedom, stand up for the right to vote and our civil rights, and this is our moment.

Let's finish this job. I know we can't because this is the United States of America. There's nothing, simply nothing, we cannot do if we do it together.

I just want you to know that I had that song stuck in my head last night. I think it's catchy, like I like the music. Two questions Dan, what did you think of the video?

And why aren't you wearing the dark Brandon t-shirt that the campaign is currently selling? and why aren't you wearing?

So I thought the audience for these things is not the persuadable voter who's not going to tune in for a year and a half now. It's for people who are already engaged in politics. And if he wants to get people what you want in your announcement, videos, people to give money and sign up to volunteer, and I.

Like they open with January 6th and Dobbs images of both and the Supreme Court, they talk about freedom a lot. Also, democracy wanted everyone treated equally, protect everyone's rights, give everyone a fair shot. And then when he hit MAGA Republicans and talked about that movement and talked about them taking away freedom, he picked. Cutting social security, dictating health care decisions for women, banning books, telling people who you can love and making it more difficult to vote. I thought it was an interesting choice that the you know, in the lead up to 2022, the message from Biden was mostly about the way, about abortion and about democracy.

I think that their paid ads were much more economy, but it was. What do you think about the fact that this was heavy on democracy and freedom, and lighter on economic messaging?

And so to see them lean in here. I think I thought that was not a viable strategy in this political environment. And so I was very glad to see that. And I thought, reclaiming the freedom, I think, is very important. It's something you and I have talked about a lot, I have argued for the past.

I think this is the right way to do it, which is to take all of the Republican.

Extremist agenda and frame it under one word to make them not just be extreme, but sort of these.

Meddling, privacy, invading weirdos who are trying to get involved in all your personal shit. I think that's a very good way to set the race, create the choice and help with some of the Biden's going to need. Like young voters who feel the most strongly on these issues.

I talked to Celinda Lake, we'll hear that interview soon. She was talking about how this freedom message landed with a pretty wide swath of voters from different backgrounds, different education levels, et cetera. And so I do think that it gets to something. We always talk about how Democrats talk about issues too much, and Republicans talk about make it bigger and make it about values.

He, really, this was an announcement video that was all about values and the value of freedom. And I think it's so ingrained in the American experience that it will resonate with people.

And so that I think that dynamic is playing a role here. This does not mean the economy is not going to be a huge part of this election. And I don't know if Selinda Lake made this point to you in this interview, but she made it when I talked to her a few months ago. No person has ever won the presidency in the modern era while losing on the economy, and Biden has a lot of work to do there.

And they clearly are going to spend a lot of time trying to rebuild his numbers on the economy heading into the election. Just can't do that right this second, so this is sort of where they.

Three-minute video and now we're down to a 90-second video. And in each stage, as you get smaller, more stuff drops out. And it is very notable. What stayed in this 90-second version is the huge focus on a Republican extremist attack on freedom. And I thought it was a good ad.

90 felt long to me.

We are 18 months out from the election, so what this ad is doing? I think it's a very smart way to think about. Modern communications is it is spending some money to improve the information environment in which your announcement is happening. Because Biden knows his video is going to go out there, that'll get some circulation. There will be a lot of right-wing media reaction to it, which is dominant, and then you're going to have mainstream media reaction which is going to be infected with. But Joe Biden announces despite low polls or concerns about age.

So you put out a piece of content on your terms that's seen by your people. Which is why it's on MSNBC and why it's happening in the battleground states. And for that environment, 90 seconds is a totally, I think, useful length. 15 seconds is better than 30 seconds. If you're trying to get the less engaged, swing voters at the end of an election. Yeah, I love that he's taken back.

I also like that he is framing it as an extreme movement. He did two things. First, he said, democracy should not be a partisan issue, which is the clip from the state of the Union. And he also said there's an extreme movement that's trying to overturn elections, ban books and eliminate a woman's right to choose.

And I do think that he's trying to square the circle here on these two things. But I do think it's important to give people the permission, structure to say, you know, this isn't the Republican Party. I remember this is an extreme movement and it's not for partisan reasons that I want to vote against them, but it's because they are attacking democracy itself. I think that's an important...

He's been doing that in the midterms and I think he did that again here. When the video came out, when the ads came out, I watched them quickly, didn't really think about it as I was watching them again closely last night. The other thing that struck me is it really makes the campaign a cause for Joe Biden. And you know, everyone's like, this guy's running, he's 80 years old.

Why is he doing this again? And it's like you can tell from what he says in these videos and in the thematics here. Like, the guy is genuinely worried about democracy, he genuinely thinks he can beat Donald Trump, maybe the only one who can beat Donald Trump. And he might be wrong, but at the very least, like you can tell, he genuinely believes that, like this is a real cause for him. And I do think that's important to start.

And so it's like, why is he doing it? This is why he's doing it. Every campaign needs a rationale for why you and why now, and these ads begin to make the case, I think, in a pretty compelling way. That is authentic to Biden in his original decision to run for president in the first place. Which people asked even then, given everything that had happened with Beau and his family and his age, everything he had accomplished, like, why are you doing this?

There are very real implications for how AI could change politics in really dangerous ways, with deep fakes and really interesting ways. In terms of how it could affect how we make content, how we analyze the effectiveness of content, all of that. And there were we're going to need guardrails and their concerns. None of that is pleasant. These people who were like, freaking out about the fact that this is AI generated, it doesn't matter. They could have done the exact same thing from stock photos and.

Even though, like you said, it's not like they used AI in this scenario to spread any disinformation other than the disinformation they would have spread had they not used AI. Well, it's like they created it, like the way people describe.

It's not that.

It's very clear they're trying to do the like. The world is out of control, the country's out of control. You feel like things are bad and this guy is too old and weak to really handle it.

You know, Trump's an asshole, we all know that, but like Trump doesn't seem weak, Trump seems strong right now. Like, again, I'm not like, too terrified of that, but it does seem like a coherent message.

And if he's performed like he has for the last few years, I think that that issue can be taken off the table. The problem with the way they are articulating the message is they are trying to create a reality that does not compute for the vast majority of.

This is one of the things I saw all through 2020 and through 2022. One of the problems for Republicans is that people who make their ads have had their brains pickled by the right wing media. And so they constantly make ads that are relevant to a world created by the right wing media and not the world experienced by the voters they need. This video, like the original Biden video, is for a certain audience, it's for RNC donors.

I'll be interested to see if this problem will continue. But it continued all.

Yeah, I guess I have a little PTSD from 2016, when I felt like the whole election. I was saying, like, you know, these wrong track numbers, they don't really capture how people are going to vote, and people tend to be grumpy. And the Republicans talking about, and Trump talking about how dark everything is and how awful everything is, and how the country's falling apart. Like, that's not really going to work.

That's not optimistic. And then we know what happened. So I guess, yeah. It's clear that it's an ad that tries to, like you do. If you're running against an incumbent, try to make the election a referendum, right? Like, things are shitty. Joe Biden's the president.

Give us a chance. And I imagine that's going to be harder to do. When Donald Trump is your nominee, if Donald Trump is your nominee, right?

Let's talk about Biden's path to 270.

Nate Cohn has a pretty good piece in The New York Times about the president's reelection prospects. At this point, a year and a half before election day, though, I might quibble with the lead, which says quote, some might feel that President Biden's reelection is all but a done deal.

If those people are out there, I would love to get my hands on whatever drugs they're taking.

On average, Mr. Biden leads Mr. Trump by one point, four percent, so far this year.

Mr. DESantis even leads Mr. Biden by less than a point. Let the freak out begin. Why is this race, and especially if it's a Biden Trump rematch, so?

It is happening on the margins, in a small handful of states. The last I said this last week, I'll say it again. We have to remember the last two presidential elections were decided by a total number of voters. There was about the size of the number of people who sit in a college football stadium on a Saturday. It is like 120,000 voters.

That's what we were talking about here. It is it is going to be close, We should assume it's close, we should act like it's close.

That that is the reality of politics now. If we had a popular vote election, it would not be close. The margins are beginning larger for Democrats over the years, but within the context of Electoral College, which trends Republican, we should expect a very close race. Yeah, and that's, you know.

Been pretty much, you know, the electorate has been pretty, pretty much the same. We talked a little bit about Biden's low 40s approval rating on Tuesday. But I know you wrote a message box about it this week. What's going on there? Can he win with those numbers? can he improve them?

He did so with an approval rating at about 50. There is almost no universe where Joe Biden's approval rating is going to be 50. Because America's become more polarized, you have fewer members of the other party who are willing to approve of the president. That lowers your ceiling pretty dramatically.

We, but we live in a world of negative partisanship, where most people vote not for their party, but against the other party. Which is why Biden was able to have a historic performance in the 2022 midterms, despite having a low approval rating. We cannot analyze presidential ratings in a vacuum. Running for president is a lot like avoiding getting eaten by a bear. You don't have to be faster than the bear, you have to be faster than the other guy. Joe Biden doesn't have to be popular.

He doesn't have to be more popular than Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis, and that seems very doable. That doesn't mean he doesn't have work to do. He needs to improve his leadership quality, how the public sees his leadership qualities and numbers on the economy. He's got real work to do with young voters. But we should not look at his approval rating and compare it to previous presidents and how they did. Because the world has changed a lot.

Can you talk about how you see the map at this point? I was listening to The Daily the other day, and Jonathan Weisman said it will come down to Georgia, Arizona and Wisconsin, which seemed a bit narrow to me. What's the Daily? Where do you find that?

My expectation is it'll come down to those states again. The only question on that list in my mind is how competitive Michigan will be. It was the least competitive of those six. Democrats had a tremendous performance in 2022 there.

But when I say how competitive it is, I'm saying, Is Biden going to win it by two points instead of one point? That's how narrow these states are. Most of them are happening within less than one half of one percent. We should expect those to be where the race is contested.

Kevin McCarthy finally got a bill passed through the House with no votes to spare. It was 217 to 215, with four Republicans voting no. In order to win over the most hardcore mega extremists, McCarthy changed the bill in the middle of the night. So that it would take away health care and food from even more seniors, veterans and low income families. Dan, are you ready to say that you were wrong about Kevin McCarthy and admit that he is in fact, a shrewd?

Their numbers are small and they all folded. Like Nancy Mace was like, Oh, no, I won't, I won't vote for a bill that has stricter work requirements on Medicaid. That's bad, I don't want that. And.

And so there's nothing he won't do to achieve a short term, long term, or even medium term consequences for his party and certainly for the country.

Yes, it's like, well, guess what, it's that you're not going to get everything that was in this bill, in the final bill, even if you were just negotiating with.

And he knows it. Stay tuned, all right, here's.

Should they bite? Do they have to? Are they coming to the negotiating?

I don't think it's going to happen with Kevin McCarthy and Joe Biden in a room together, so what happens?

There's some time it's not going to happen next week or even next month, but at some point this summer, this is all going to come to.

Because I guess McCarthy did also say that, like, Hey, well, you know, I want to negotiate with Biden. But if the Senate passes something, then we can get in the room together and negotiate a compromise with the Senate.

The White House has also, been, you know, tweeting about how this bill would cut veterans health care. Meals on wheels for seniors, health care coverage for millions would send clean energy manufacturing jobs overseas. What do you think of all this messaging from the White House, and are there any other arguments you'd make about this bill?

And that swing is most manifest with independence. And so focusing on the specifics of the cuts is how they should do this. The White House has been doing that, they've been setting the stage for it. I think all you need to know about the politics of this bill is that. Donald Trump has not been willing to touch it with a 10-foot pole.

Personally, I thought we were done talking about Joe Manchin. But he's out there threatening to repeal the Inflation Reduction Act, which basically he wrote, for reasons I can't begin to comprehend. I do think he's clearly trying to improve his very bad poll numbers in West Virginia, they are bad because he did vote for the Inflation Reduction Act. And people in West Virginia are quite conservative. And probably didn't like him doing that. But I don't know that going to voters in your state and saying, Hey, remember that bill that I wrote?

Well, I wrote it one way and it passed, but Joe Biden didn't implement it, right, so now I'm threatening to repeal it. I don't know that that works, but maybe I'm wrong. John, you have a toddler that lives in.

Yes, so you know what that is? That's a smart kid.

Joe Manchin needs attention at all times. I think he may misunderstand some of his own political successes. If you remember when he was running for election. In 2010, he had a campaign ad where he shot the cap and trade bill that was supported by President Obama and passed by the House Democrats. But shooting someone else's bill and shooting your own bill is a bit.

He's shooting his own bill. I am a little like, I'm like, what's he up to? Governor Jim Justice of West Virginia is entering the race against Joe Manchin. Jim Justice is, like, turned Republican, very popular governor of West Virginia. It seems like the toughest possible opponent for Joe Manchin if he makes it through the primary, if Justice makes it through the primary.

Manchin released a statement, saying, I'm not going to. He keeps saying I'm not going to make any decisions until December about my future, but then he also said, I will win any race I enter. He keeps leaving open the possibility that there may be other races that he's going to run in. He's already ruled out governor, though. So, like, are we going to get a fucking Joe Manchin no labels ticket?

Is that what we're dealing with? And we haven't talked about no labels much here, but like, they are going around getting no labels, no label. Spot on ballots in key swing States I.

Unpopular attorney general who was all mobbed up with the opioid industry in West Virginia. That is not a good candidate, yeah. And so if he's running against Jim Justice, he's going to get Trump's endorsement. He is a former Democrat with Trump credentials.

He's not going to win that race and so there's a very real possibility. We, you know, as we say.

But we should be worried about Joe Manchin running for president on some independent ticket. And when we talked all about, you know, your fears about 2016, the reason 2016 happened one way, in 2020 happened in a different way is that in 2016, Donald Trump only needed 47 of the vote to win. In 2020 he needed 50. So we lost.

If we get to a point where there's a third party candidate who can take a significant chunk of votes. And by significant, I mean, three points. In a state, Donald Trump can easily win in any of these states, he's got 47 on lock in these states.

The lawsuit came just minutes after DESantis Goons voted to nullify two agreements that gave Disney control over their resort complex. From the Disney statement quote, Disney finds itself in this regrettable position because it expressed a viewpoint the governor and his allies did not like. In America, the government cannot punish you for speaking your mind. NBC has also reported that Tiny D is planning to launch his exploratory committee for president in mid May. You think being hit with a lawsuit from the most beloved company in America is a win for a little Ronnie pudding fingers?

A case here to that sets a standard that protects companies from, I don't know, just expressing their public, their opinion publicly without facing repercussions. Something that might be included in the Constitution. But Republican politics, you're defined by your enemies and corporations, whether they're Disney or even Fox, are incredibly unpopular among the Republican base. You know, we, you talked to Celinda today when she did that project on Factory Towns. The most interesting to me part of that project was. If you call Fox News corporate news, Republicans run away from it. It's the best way to combat Fox News disinformation. And so a corporation suing Ron DESantis is can be a win for him, whether he's got the dexterity to make it at least a short-term win for him. To be as a proof of his conservative bona fides, that he's such a fighter against wokeism, or whatever fucking word he wants to use.

Like it has, I don't think it's bad for him.

He's sort of he's, he doesn't know what he's doing. He, you know, Trump already hit him once for the Disney thing, and I don't know that. It's as clean as it would have been had there been no Donald Trump. Because now Trump will message to voters, This isn't DESantis taking on a big, woke corporation, this is DESantis doing some kind of stunt. And he fucked it up and he couldn't do it right.

And now Disney's going.

It would be a much cleaner, bigger deal for him. Everything is more challenging for DESantis because Trump is in the race. Shitting on him. Eating breakfast is a pain in his ass, right? Like everything is hard. But this is at least a chance for DeSantis to have a news cycle that is about him and him alone.

Now, the one thing we should remember, though, is that we have seen no evidence in any of the polling that any of these voters are hearing Trump's attacks on DESantis.

Why? why am I running for?

Joining us Now to talk about Joe Biden's path to reelection, one of his top pollsters, veteran Democratic strategist Celinda Lake Celinda, welcome back.

It's huge out there and the central of taking away our freedoms. And it's something that was also, you know, is a real through thread for the president. He started with Charlottesville. And the soul of the nation, and the soul of the nation is as much in jeopardy today. Or more so, because it's been revealed how far the other side will go.

So it's a very, very heartfelt, thematic, it's test unbelievably strongly. It's a value. Freedom is interesting because it's the number one value out there. And it's that the right uses more than the left, which is quite ironic right now.

So we are taking it back, and I think the president's speech was a strong part of that. The president, I think there are two pillars to the campaign the record on the economy and taking away our freedoms and fighting for our freedoms. Whether it's voting, whether it's abortion, whether it's LGBTQ rights, but the other pillar is the economy. Simultaneously, to the announcement, of course, the president, the whole Cabinet, is engaged in a 31 city tour on the economy and on investments from the IRA.

So it's not like it was ignored, it was like these are the two pillars and they are being spoken to simultaneously, in my opinion. Can you take us behind the scenes in the?

Then, of course, with January 6th, with the voting rights restrictions, with the abortion restrictions, the Dobbs decision, medication, abortion. Taking away our freedoms became a very, very prominent theme, the freedom to be represented by who we want to be represented by. And not have them silenced on the floor of the House. There are just so many things happening that people thought were completely unlikely to happen. And many of them people think, is this even legal? Like, don't I get to vote for who I want?

And you can't tell them they can't speak on the floor.

So that has been the push in this last year, there were quite a few candidates who actually ran on Freedom in 2022. And it's been a very strong thematic since then, because the Republicans keep making it stronger and stronger.

Seven million more votes I mean, this wasn't a hundred vote margin, seven million more votes, and that was before January 6th. That was before Donald Trump was indicted for everything under the sun and has completely alienated women. And actually, of all the indictments. In our research, we're finding that the rape trial is the most salient to women.

It's not even the papers or the finances, it's the rape trial which is very, very vivid to them. Has that broken through to folks totally particularly college educated women, suburban women, attentive women, independent women, democratic women?

Yes, it's volunteered much more than I would have thought. Secondly, the fact that he has such an amazing record. Honestly, it would have been easier for him if he had gotten a lot less done because then you would know exactly what to talk about. We got to talk about these four things because they're the only things we got done, rather than these 40 things.

And then I think people are underestimating. What a sharp contrast was laid out, and it was laid out by the president's announcement video and the RNC's response video. This is a very stark contrast. In the future of America, what is the soul of the nation? Is it an optimistic vision or a pessimistic vision?

And he is a resilient person, he is optimistic, he is energetic, and that's all being underestimated.

But I think the more of this that shows up at people's kitchen tables, the more that it shows up in people's neighborhoods, the more that it shows up in the friends and family networks of people. That grandma says, thank God, the insulin is only priced at this. That your Latino neighbor says I have a job on that construction crew for that bridge that the small business owner reminds them, you know, PPP Loan actually kept me afloat during Covid. We came out of Covid, we're still here because of those loans. And that help. The more that those networks express what is actually showing up, and then I think there are two things that are blocking the communication.

One is for a while, I think Democrats didn't seem in touch. We were taking victory tours and we were saying everything was good and it's like, What planet are you on? And we had people in focus groups asking, what neighborhoods do economists live in? because they sure don't live in my neighborhood.

So I think now there's a much greater understanding which Bill Clinton had in his administration. That we've made this progress. But it's not good enough, it's not good enough till we're here, here and here. And then. The cynicism that voters have for every institution right now is at record high. I mean, people say the president's numbers are bad, okay?

Well, the president's numbers are weak. Want to be the Supreme Court right now, want to be Congress right now, want to be Donald Trump right now. I mean, his numbers are better than all of them.

So we're just in an era of great dissatisfaction and instability, and I think we have to factor.

Some seniors will say, Well, I can't handle it. I'm not sure if he can, but on the other hand, if age is the worst thing they can say about him. Oh my gosh, are we in great shape? No scandal, no corruption, no failed programs. Keep on it.

The second thing I think is the best anecdote to age is just for him to be out there, showing his energy, showing what he can do. And that will come across. I think, as he's out in the hinterlands and I think we're finally resigned. And you mentioned it, John. We can't get any national press on the accomplishments, so they're going market by market.

It's a slow grind, local news by local news, but people are also relying on local news and podcasts. That's right, we're in the past. Yeah, I noticed in the announcement.

He emotionally spoke to what was in his heart, and he laid out the contrast. Frankly, he did that in 2022 very effectively in a series of speeches, so I think showing him out there energetically. Locally. Deliver for markets, in paid ads and in speeches is a formula that worked in 2020, it's a formula that will work in 2022.

And it contrasts vividly with the erraticism and chaos of the Trump team.

You just mentioned that he won by 7 million votes, Obviously in the swing states, it was like 40,000 votes, right? If they'd gone the other way, Trump would have won because of the Electoral College. A lot has happened in four years, but also since Trump won in 16, the electorate hasn't changed that much, I would say.

And there's just been sort of swings and differential turnout here and there. What are you seeing as we head into 24? I think the more they change, the more they stay.

What about working class voters?

Sixty percent of the Biden media was devoted totally to the economy. We have to establish an economic plan, we have to give an economic vision, we have to get the economy in better shape. And the administration is working 24-7 to do that.

Does it land with voters, and.

If you know the GDP numbers came out today, I think growth slowed a bit, like if we tip into even a mild recession. I mean, obviously Biden can't do much to control that. But does the messaging become sharper on the economic contrast, or how do voters deal with that? Do you think?

Young Black men, and that includes Latinos, particularly Latino men, who are very economically focused now, for case in point. Latino men love the infrastructure bill because they firmly believe we will be the ones who build those roads and bridges. So we've got to stay on that and really make sure that we communicate to all of those channels. You made a bold, very early prediction.

Yeah, I think we're guaranteed to take back the house, but we're going to have to work hard for it. Our margin is very narrow and we got 17 seats that were won by Biden. And I think the choice issue is going to matter a lot in the House seats, and then I think we're going to hold the Senate. We've got really good candidates running, they're still having candidate problems and I think these are tough, tough races. But the John Testers, Sherrod Browns, Ruben Gallegos of the world are the kinds of seasoned candidates we need to win these seats.

And a Biden win on the presidential level, Biden win.

You have actual data to back it up and talk to voters, so we love that. So Linda, thank you so much for joining Pods of America and come back soon. We'll keep in touch during the course of.

Okay, all right. Theory number one he violated too many HR policies. So the Dominion, and that's to, that's an understatement. The Dominion lawsuit exposed Tucker's text messages where he disparaged Fox executives, calling one senior executive the C-word. We knew that he called Sidney Powell the C-word, but it's also apparently a Fox News executive. Fox was also worried about a lawsuit filed by a former producer, which apparently details a highly sexist, misogynistic workplace in the Tucker show.

Again, shocker, shocker. Who would have guessed? It's always the ones you least expect, all right, so what do you think about that theory that sounds possibly true?

And, you know, a lot of people are, you know?

Tucker laced religion into his show. Then, in March, Murdoch invited Tucker over for dinner, and Tucker bonded with Rupert's then-fiancée, Anne Leslie Smith, over the Bible. Rupert has since broken up with that over email.

It's just very Logan Roy. She later told Murdoch that Tucker was a messenger from God, to which Rupert reportedly responded Nope, which, honestly, best response. And, of course, they broke off their engagement shortly after that. What do you think about this theory?

I can.

Theory three This is the succession theory. The Murdoch kids are thinking long-term. Lachlan Murdoch is preparing to leave the company when Rupert passes. His siblings, James and Elizabeth, have been pressuring to do something about Tucker.

Lachlan knows he'll need their support to run Fox. Because of how the family trust is structured. The Murdoch children and top execs at Fox feel that no one personality is bigger than the Fox.

Is there something between possibly true and resistance fanfic?

I do think succession has probably done for the way we think about media, probably what West Wing did for politics, which is creating a very.

Different version of how things actually work.

He hated Tucker's wild success from the beginning. Hannity may have had something to do with it. This isn't Resistance fanfic, this is MAGA fanfic.

Very good point, Very good point. Theory Five ratings don't equal money. The Wall Street Journal reports that despite being the highest rated show on the network, Tucker's show didn't make big bucks.

That's because Tucker's content was so unhinged that the big blue chip advertisers wouldn't buy ad time on his show, so Fox couldn't sell commercials at a premium rate.

Paid for Fox News gets a lot of money, not by the ads they show, but just by being on everyone's cable box. So all you people who have not yet cut the cord are still paying for Fox. And whether they run ads for Fortune 500 companies, or weird virility supplements, or gold buying, or Trump commemorative coins, is only sort of marginal to the bottom line.

A principled stance on the Ukrainian war. And he can't stomach tucker out there being so pro-putin.

And so they're going to take a small-term hit now to avoid getting sued for a trillion.

It's that simple.

Yeah, that seems, right, highly plausible. I would say, great, how fun is this that? Oliver Darcy reported that the ratings for Fox last night were some of the lowest ratings in the post-9-11 period, and that not just low ratings for Fox. Because you could say, okay, well, Tucker was their highest-rated host. They're now doing some sort of filling rotation of hosts while they try to find a new one, so of course, their ratings are going.

Newsmax's ratings have started going up. What do you think about that? We saw the same thing.

Everyone thought it was all going to fall apart when Glenn Beck left.

Roger Ailes, left. And it returns to where it was. And whether it's Jesse Waters or Greg Gutfeld, or I don't know what other Yahoo they're going to put in there. They'll continue to do fine and continue to make a shitload of money. Dividing America on racial lines, one material effect of.

Olivia Martinez. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineered the show, thanks to Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Sandy Gerard, Andy Tapp and Justine Howe for production support.

And to our digital team Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim and Emilio Montu, our episodes are uploaded as videos at YouTube.com Slash pod Save America.