Will Republicans regret taking on the ‘Tennessee Three’? Politics Weekly America podcast
2023-04-14 00:19:55
Every Friday, Guardian columnist and former Washington correspondent, Jonathan Freedland, invites experts to help analyse the latest in American politics. From politicians to journalists covering the White House and beyond, Jonathan and his guests give listeners behind the scenes access to how the American political machine works.
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Last week, there was outcry after representatives Justin Jones and Justin Pierson were ousted by the GOP-controlled legislature in Tennessee for joining a peaceful protest in the chamber over gun control.
The protest was inspired by tragedy after a school shooting in Nashville left six kids dead, prompting them to join with protesters in calling for gun control.
Top Democrats seized on the moment, with Vice President Kamala Harris making an emergency trip to Nashville at the weekend to visit the two Democratic lawmakers, who now find themselves considered political rock stars.
We called for you all to ban assault weapons, and you respond with an assault on democracy.
But what happens now? Will Republicans be deterred from similar acts of political?
Will voters in Tennessee be emboldened to do more to protect democracy? I'm Lauren Gambino in for Jonathan Friedland, and this is Politics Weekly America.
It has been a really intense two and a half weeks now, I guess, here in Tennessee.
Becca Andrews is a journalist based in Nashville, Tennessee. She has been covering what happened these past couple of weeks for The Guardian.
The community is definitely still grieving the Covenant school shooting. It feels a little bit like Nashville and Tennessee more broadly, too. It's just this really big ball of raw nerves.
We should maybe rewind back to the reason there were protests in the first place. The shooting you mentioned there at a Christian elementary school in Nashville a couple of weeks ago. Can you just remind us what happened there?
Um, so, as you mentioned, the Covenant School is a Christian elementary school here in Nashville, it's a neighborhood of Nashville, basically. A shooter entered through a side door and wound up killing three children, all of whom were nine years old and three adults.
Devastating images small children moving, single file, holding hands, terrified faces seen through school bus windows.
Nothing like this has happened in Nashville in recent memory. There was a vigil at the Capitol the Thursday after it happened, and there were tons of people there, thousands of people.
Dr. Jill Biden among the mourners at the candlelight vigil earlier Wednesday. the First Lady laying flowers at a memorial outside the school.
Live music Margo Price sang, Sheryl Crow sang, and it was just this very emotional scene. The community is still very, very much grieving what happened.
But I think you touched on something there that there was already these sort of calls for.
If you could tell us a little bit about how the shooting led to these protests at the State Capitol, what it felt like, who was there, and what they were asking state lawmakers to do.
Yeah.
So the organizing on the ground has been really incredible here, you know, I think often people think of the South as this really regressive place, but the South is really a leader when it comes to activism. So one that I was at personally was on Monday. It was a coordinated walkout of schools by school-aged children.
Very sad that everyone has to be here, but I'm also very happy that people are here and fighting against what's been happening.
People are really upset and outraged and ready for change, and it has felt like, okay for these organizers. It's like we have been asking for this for so long, and now the unthinkable has happened. It's such a diverse crowd, it's anyone that you could possibly think of really, really young folks to really, really elderly folks. There were these three older women who were out there and they had these signs that said grandmothers for justice. It's interesting to see the entire community come together and be so solid on an issue like that.
And so it was. During one of these protests at the State Capitol, where three state representatives decided to join, they went to the front of the chamber. No action, no peace, no action.
No peace. They've now become known as the Tennessee Three. But I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about who they are and why they joined this protest at the Capitol.
So that would be Representative Gloria Johnson, Representative Justin Jones, and Representative Justin Pearson.
The lawmakers were in chamber, the House was in session. These three kept trying to bring up gun control.
Justin Jones mic was cut.
That's why we went to the Well because the speaker wouldn't call on us, He cut off our microphones. He ruled us out of order anytime we brought up the issue of gun violence.
The Republican leadership blocked the three representatives from addressing the protest on the House floor, saying it was a violation of decorum. But the three Democrats persisted, using a bullhorn and sparking a security incident. What ended up happening was the three coalesced around Representative Johnson's desk and decided to go into the well, which is the front of the room. And start chanting and making a real plea for gun control efforts from the legislature that broke a House rule. Republicans resolute and largely united in their votes and condemnation for the lack of decorum.
Those are the grounds on which the expulsion motion was crafted. House Speaker Cameron Sexton was not pleased and went on Fox News the next day and likened it to the January 6th insurrection.
Sexton said. Quote What they did today was at least equivalent, maybe worse.
He did walk those comments back pretty quickly on Twitter.
What was the main argument for such a heavy punishment? Was it just a matter of decorum and procedural rules?
The Republicans hewed pretty closely to that throughout the discussion on the motion to expel.
Just because you don't get your way, you can't come to the well.
Bring your friends and throw a temper tantrum with an adolescent bullhorn.
Is elevating our voices for justice or change a temper tantrum? You know, the rules have been broken, there must be some kind of punishment for that. Expulsion is appropriate.
This is only the third time that state lawmakers have been expelled from the Tennessee legislature since the Civil War.
Our legislature has sort of run the gamut of scandal and drama, and lawmakers have never, even it's never even been suggested, that some of these folks be expelled.
One of your colleagues, who was an admitted child molester, sat in this chamber. One member sits in this chamber who was found guilty of domestic violence. No expulsion. We had a former speaker sit in this chamber who is now under federal investigation, no expulsion.
We have a member.
So to attempt to expel three lawmakers for trying to represent the clear wishes of their constituents felt like overreach.
And the vote to expel them was incredibly heated, with supporters of the Tennessee Three chanting shame and fascists in the chamber and the representatives themselves making impassioned speeches.
What we see today is a lynch mob assembled to not lynch me, but our democratic process. But it will not stand because no lie can live forever.
Did you sense the Republicans knew how big this would get?
No, I don't think so. So. This garnered national, even international attention. It's not something that Tennessee gets a whole lot of, honestly. All three of those representatives have national platforms at this point and a national following. I don't think the Republicans meant to do that.
Frankly, I think the response took everyone by surprise. There have been hundreds of people at the Capitol nearly at all times to support the Tennessee. Three. I don't think that Speaker Sexton or the Republicans in the House knew what they were standing up for.
And Becca? Almost immediately, there were accusations that this move was an act of quote overt racism. The optics were awful, mostly white men, targeting two young Black lawmakers and a woman. Representatives Jones and Pearson are both Black, Representative Johnson is white.
While the House voted to expel representatives Jones and Pearson.
In a really tight vote, when asked by reporters, Johnson herself said I might have to do with the color of our skin. Republicans denied this straight away, but Johnson is not the only person to raise this right.
Oh, absolutely not. And I think you really have to take into account the history here. You got to go to the well of democracy and demand that democracy be true for everybody. Not just for rich white men in suits, not just for rich white people who got these positions of power, perpetuating the status quo.
So on Wednesday, Representative Justin Pearson published an op-ed in the New York Times pointing out this history. So he says, Quote this in Tennessee, the birthplace of the Klan, a land stained with the blood lynchings of my people. It's very clear when you watch. The ways that Representative Johnson was spoken to during the debate over the motion to expel, versus the ways that Representative Jones and Representative Pearson were spoken to.
Look at the disrespect with which he has conducted himself today.
Time and time again, Jones and Pearson were criticized for their lack of experience, their brashness. All these things that sort of come with this weighted meaning that feels based in race.
This is what we've dealt with all session. And yesterday the nation was able to see that we don't have democracy in Tennessee, particularly when it comes to black and brown communities.
The decision to expel Jones and Pearson sparked a lot of anger in Tennessee and around the country. Democrats have suggested Republicans were assaulting democracy. Together, the pair represent a combined constituency of about 130,000 people who just lost representation. That they voted for because a few dozen Republicans voted to oust them. So this was a line taken by those as high up in the Democratic Party as the president. We know that. Joe Biden phoned the two expelled lawmakers to offer his support, and Kamala Harris made a very hasty emergency trip to Nashville to speak with them.
Wanted to get involved in this way.
I think for the White House, it was very egregious and also a symbol of the turn that the political culture has taken here in the United States. Over the past six or eight years. Things are so partisan that it sort of feels like what happened last week was Republicans have a super majority in the House. They don't like these three Democrats, so they're going to expel them because they can't agree on gun control. And that's an oversimplified account of what happened, but that is the way that it comes off, I think broadly. And so the White House felt that it was really important to give a strong show of support and say no. In this country, everyone gets equal representation.
Vice President Harris spoke at a chapel at Fisk University, which is a historically Black college here in Nashville. A democracy says you don't silence the people, you do not stifle the people. You don't turn off their microphones when they are speaking about the importance of life and liberty. And she was very passionate in her defense of the three and in saying that what happened to them was a clear assault on democracy.
And I think your point that Republicans are in the super majority. It's not like these Democrats were a threat to their agenda or could have in any way, pushed. Gun control over the opposition of Republicans is a really important point to all of this. And certainly, the White House has tried to make democracy a centerpiece of their argument against the Republican Party. To that point, I was wondering, Obviously it's a big country, there's a lot of political stars. But do you think these two young men do you see them rising through the party? They've sort of already been called political rock stars, and we've seen them, you know, appear on TV almost back to back interviews. They're pretty much everywhere you turn.
What do you think about their status in democratic politics right now?
Yeah, I mean, I think even before this happened, both Jones and Pearson were destined for a national stage. They both have this charisma that I think plays very well nationally. Anytime that they've spoken and I've been in the room, the people around me have just been completely spellbound. I think that what happened here in Tennessee has only escalated that process. And I think also, you know, they're different from what the majority of the legislature here in Tennessee looks like, right?
They're not old white men, they're not reserved.
This activist background, Justin Jones, for example, graduated from Fisk here in Nashville and has this legacy of activism behind him. He was sort of brought up by civil rights legends here in Nashville and taught to create quote unquote. Good trouble, as John Lewis would say. So this was already inevitable. Republicans have just sort of lit a match to the fuel.
And Becca, actually. Representative Jones and Representative Pearson have already been voted back into the House by their own county commissions. This is temporary, though, because they'll have to campaign to try to win a special election to regain their seats permanently. Those elections will likely happen in the next few months. But if they succeed, the rules state that they can't be expelled for the same offense for a second time. Becca, Looking ahead, how important do you think this might be in Tennessee politics, or even wider than that?
It's coming to your state next.
Before being expelled, Representative Jones warned his colleagues in other states that this could happen to them if Republicans are in the majority. But how will other Democrats interpret what happened in Tennessee? Is it a moment to worry or does the outrage it sparked create hope?
Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both, I think it's hope and worry. There's certainly a fear that what happened in Tennessee will be used in other state houses to expel lawmakers that are progressive. That would not come as a shock, and we've sort of started to see that develop, particularly in Florida.
Now at. Six big names in the Florida Democratic Party were arrested in Tallahassee during a pro-choice rally late last night, including Florida Democratic Party chair Nikki Freed and Senate Minority leader Lauren Book. People are a little bit nervous about the precedent that this sets. However, like we talked about earlier, I don't think we expected, and certainly the Republicans didn't expect, for there to be such a massive public outcry against this. I also think that there's been sort of this shot across the bow to any Republicans who might try this in the future. Because it doesn't play well with the constituency.
Now, Becca, we like to ask a what else? question on this podcast, something completely different to what we've talked about during the rest of the show. I know that you also report on abortion rights in the U..S, so I wanted to get your take on the next chapter in that story. As the Supreme Court will likely need to decide pretty soon whether or not abortion pills can remain legal in the United States.
President Biden is calling a federal Texas judge's abortion pill ruling out of bounds. The ruling would block access to an abortion drug nationwide. Now, the Justice Department is asking for an emergency stay to temporarily block the decision.
This is because last week, a judge in Texas ruled to suspend the Food and Drug Administration's approval of Mifepristone, one of the two drugs commonly used in medication-induced abortions. This week, a federal appeals court ruled that Mifepristone can still be used for now, while the Biden administration challenges the ruling. But it's hard to know what will happen next. Can you give us a sense of how people on the ground are feeling about this?
Things are very uncertain right now, and, as you said, the case is likely to go before the Supreme Court. It's this broader issue of, you know, Roe was overturned last summer. And ever since, it's been this sort of legal, free-for-all of figuring out what's next and how else. You know, the right can kind of push to limit abortion access in this country, and there doesn't seem to be. The letter of the law doesn't seem to exist anymore.
It seems squishier than that. If the case goes before the Supreme Court, we know the Supreme Court did when abortion rights was before them last summer. You know, on the ground specifically, there's a lot of fear and a lot of confusion. I went to a self-managed abortion workshop here in Nashville on Saturday. So the day after those two rulings came down, and you know, most of the questions in that room were not about how to self-manage an abortion.
They were about what's legal and what's not, because it's really confusing and it seems to change minute by minute. So I think we also have to talk about how, the side effect of these cases, that stokes a lot of uncertainty and fear.
Absolutely, that seems to be. One of the central questions is, how do you keep people informed when the rules keep changing? So, thank you so much for your analysis. Becca Andrews, thank you for joining me on Politics Weekly America.
Thank you.
That's all from me this week. Before you go, please don't forget to subscribe to the Guardian's new podcast series, Caught in Capital, which is looking at the Guardian's links to transatlantic slavery. New episodes are released every Monday. Episode two follows Guardian journalist Maya Wolfe Robinson as she heads to Jamaica in search of the site of the sugar plantation. Success, which was once co-owned by Guardian founder Sir George Phillips. Just search for Caught in Capital, wherever you get your podcasts, and hit Subscribe.
But for now, it's goodbye. The producer is Danielle Stevens, and the executive producer this week was Nicole Jackson. I'm Lauren Gambino. Thanks as always for listening.
This is The Guardian.
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