#2028 - Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
2023-08-31 02:54:43
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Hello, George. Hey, Joe.
Hello, Jeremy, what's up? Good to see you guys.
Hey man.
The two musketeers at the front lines of UFO disclosure.
It is scary if that's true, Joe.
I think you guys are. I mean, you're certainly prominent.
Can I get the mic turned up on this bad boy?
Yeah, there's a little thing right there. You can hear your own voice. There's a volume knob right there. We're up.
It's exciting times. It is. It's very exciting times. I've said it a few times that I'd never thought I would see it in my life. You know, I would just keep plugging away, for this is my 36th year doing this, chasing this crazy story.
I never thought it would make this much progress. Still a long way to go.
Are you apprehensive at all that some of the stuff that they're releasing is bullshit?
Of course. Of course. Who's releasing?
I mean, when you see these, the Pentagon's talking about it, when, you know, intelligent officials. Do you ever wonder whether or not it's disinformation?
Yeah. So, yeah, I'll take that first. Yeah, I've heard you kind of talk about that a bunch, you know, and I think it's a very healthy suspicion to have. My perspective is a little different, in that people are always coming at me with fake information, like every day, all the time. But the people in government that we have been able to kind of interface with, I wish there was an adult in the room.
I wish that this was orchestrated through the media. It would give me some sort of hope that someone has some sort of control on this. And that has not been my experience.
What is your experience? What's your impression of how it's all happening?
It's a big question. I don't know where to start on that. But just here's what I know. I know that there are people in government that want some level of disclosure on whatever this is, without defining it. Just, there should be oversight.
So I know that to be true. There are good people that think that people are running amok and there must be oversight, not just financially. But if these types of technologies actually exist.
Right. Who's in control of them and why? And who has access to them and why?
I mean, we have a history of disinformation and misinformation put out to the public and to Congress by the intelligence community, by the Pentagon. They lie all the time. It's part of the turf. It's part of the job. But for them to then go into closed door briefings with members of Congress, with the oversight committees who handle their budgets, for them to lie about that, that's another matter.
And I don't think they would, because they could get busted for it. A lot of stuff is coming out now. And I know we get asked all the time, who's behind this push? You know, it looks like it's one big movement as opposed to a bunch of different things that all happened in approximately the same time. It's kind of been organic.
Different people have come forward and it encourages other people to come forward, as opposed to somebody doing a master manipulation of the whole thing.
What resistance is there to this information getting out?
There's resistance on multiple levels. So, despite what you believe to be true or not true, the big question is, are we going to be able to verify some of these claims? That's all I care about. Right. If we're back engineering some of these craft, then I believe that we should.
we should have the discovery process to find out if things like what David Grush has said under oath, that he has literally put his well-being and his safety on the line. for. If that is true, then we have a duty to find out. So the pushback comes from many levels. There's stigma.
It's fucking huge, dude. Like it is political toxicity for some of these senators to even, you know, people don't want to know. They don't want me to say I ever talk with them. It's like a. it's like a.
it's like a toxic environment, politically. The UFO thing.
Because everybody thinks it's bullshit or you're a loon. if you believe it. It's not everybody, but quite a few people.
Not just that. It doesn't help you get reelected, man. And then, when you start poking the bear and going into the oversight committees and the Senate Intelligence Committee and, you know, all these things, they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is our territory. Why are you, as Congress, pushing on us?
Why are you doing that? Like, this is our job. We have clearances. So there's that that kind of pushback.
You look back at the beginning of the cover up. You know, why did it happen? Why did it start? Well, if 1947, this gigantic wave of UFOs suddenly appear, you got Kenneth Arnold, you got Roswell, hundreds of sightings all over. We'd just come out of World War Two.
And our military is faced with a new threat that they really don't know what the hell it is. They start looking at it and try to figure it out, but they can't. So they sort of painted themselves into a corner of secrecy. Nobody wants to admit if you're a president or chairman of the Joint Chiefs or something flying in our atmosphere and we can't control it. We can't even.
we can't even catch it. We can't detect it on radar. There's not much we can do. They don't want to admit that. Secondly, I think what was told to me by a Senate intelligence guy who was a chief staffer who oversaw black budget operations, he had come out to Area 51 looking into the Lazar stuff years ago, early 90s.
And he told me, look, if this is true, if this cover up is going on, if they are diverting millions of dollars, maybe hundreds of millions of dollars, from legitimate national security programs to keep this cover up going. As he suspected there were, then somebody is going to go to prison. When it comes out, they'd go to prison. I think you heard we heard Dave Grush speaking before this House committee in late July, at which he talked about special access programs, hundreds of millions of dollars being funneled into them. Nothing ever comes out.
Congress has no oversight. Congress doesn't even know they exist. That's the kind of thing. you could send somebody to prison if and when it comes out. And then the final reason we can only speculate about it.
Maybe there really is a big secret. I wonder about it. If, if I was told, here's the real deal, here's what's going to happen. if this comes out. Society will collapse.
It is so overwhelming, so disturbing, that it would hit the fan that everybody freak out. Maybe there is something like that. I don't know. But it gets dangerous for us to allow military folks to decide. I can know it, but you can't.
Dad can know, but mom and the kids can't know. I don't like that. I'd like to be able to know myself.
I don't like it either. But why do they think that society would collapse?
There was a Brookings Institution Institute study that was done in 1960 where they looked at it. And, well, let's say it was confirmed that we came out and admitted that extraterrestrials are here. And they speculated, in looking at sociological matters, that social institutions would collapse. People would these people want to still pay their taxes. Do they want to go to work?
It was so overwhelming. The fact that we, a lesser species, have been discovered by something more intelligent. We know from human history how that works out. When the Europeans come to North America, we know what happens to the people who are already here, the less developed society. They collapse.
They were wiped out. And I think that that was the projection of that study. The only way to get around that, they said, is to prepare for it over a long period of time, to condition folks to get ready for it. I don't know if there was ever a policy where they instituted that, but it kind of looks like it. Although UFO and alien movies and TV shows and X-Files, this, and books and reports and children's cartoons, it almost looks like we've been conditioned to get ready for it over the last 60 years.
When people talk about the possibility of these being some sort of black ops creation by the Defense Department, some sort of weapons-grade drone that moves at insane speeds with some unknown technology that they've developed in secrecy, that kind of falls apart when you go back to 47.. If you go back to 47 and you're seeing these vehicles that are behaving in a very similar way, at least described in a very similar way, where they just jet off at insane rates of speed, no visible means of propulsion, no sound.
That's the one thing that brings me back. God, they seem to act the same. At least some of them do. We're talking about 1947.. We can really safely assume that they did not have drone technology capable of super hypersonic speeds at that time.
I'm really glad you mentioned that, because that is a big part of the issue here. People can just say, oh, this is really special projects that are even being hidden by our own government. The thing is, the UFO phenomenon has been ubiquitous. It's been everywhere in the world. It's been going on before 1947..
Somebody had that technology. I do hope we've had some sort of ability to get derivative technologies. I know they've been trying to do that. if we believe the core concept that we have craft that's more advanced than ours, that we're trying to reverse, engineer. The fact you bring that up, and I want to touch on what you just said, the explanation I've been given, we've both been given, is that there are true national security concerns about this technology, that the cover-up or whatever, that it has to do with what will happen if we make a breakthrough in this technology, and that can be weaponized.
So the secrecy, you could say, might—I mean, some people have convinced us, have tried to convince us that there's real, true national security issues with this, in that once you admit one thing, those next questions are going to come, and maybe we can't answer those yet. We don't know. So that's the fear. It's like the Oppenheimer movie. Shit's been kept pretty secret, but stuff has come out.
It's like, what happens if we admit the fundamental truth, that there are craft of unknown origin that are more advanced technologically than ours? It doesn't matter where they're from. What happens if we admit that? So people are concerned, from my opinion, within government, that if they let that out, the follow-up, they're not going to be able to deal with.
This technology has been seen throughout human history, on every continent, in every culture, for as far back as humans have been around. That is not our technology. that was flying around pre-1947.. Dave Fravor was here in this chair, Joe, talking to you, and he talked about the Tic-Tac incident from 2004.. As he testified before Congress in late July, we didn't have that technology then to do what the Tic-Tac did.
We don't have it now. We don't have it. If you look back at the paper trail, this is what got me hooked on this topic in the beginning. I can't go out and find UFOs. I don't know the cosmic meaning of all this stuff, but there is a paper trail within our government, documents, memos, reports, that were generated by the Department of Defense before the Freedom of Information Act existed, before they had to worry about the public ever seeing these reports.
Those documents paint a pretty clear picture. General Nathan Twining, who became chief of the Air Force, he was also the first Air Force guy to be the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he wrote this document in 1947, the Twining Memo, where he talks about these things, are not fictitious or imaginary. They're real, and they're not ours, and we don't think they're the Russians either. It's not our technology.
How did he describe it?
It's not fictitious or imaginary. It's real.
How did he describe the crafts or how they behave?
Metallic. They can appear and disappear. We can't detect them on our sensors, whatever. I think it was radar back then, that they can outfly. our best planes, fly circles around us.
There's nothing we can do about it. We have no defense mechanism against them. And then the paper trail starts there. There was a study by the FBI and the U.S. Army in 1948..
Then the CIA, after it was created, got involved. They've been studying this stuff for a long time, and the documents where they speak to each other. very frankly. This is real. It's not us.
As the 1960, they put out a memo saying this is serious business. We need to figure this out. I think there are inescapable national security implications for this technology. There is a race for it. We're trying to get it.
The Russians are trying to get it. The Chinese are trying to get it. Whoever gets it, they win.
Are there some sort of reports about the Russians and the Chinese also having recovered crafts?
Dude, he smuggled a ton of classified documents out of Russia himself. during Glasnos and Perestroika. He went and met with the heads of the UFO programs in Russia. During that time period, he came back with all those documents and actually supplied them to some people. That happened.
It had a lot to do with Harry Reid's decision to go ahead and support funding, because those documents show that the Russians are trying to do what we're trying to do, which is to take this stuff apart and figure out how it works.
What year was this?
This is 1993, the first time I went. Their study lasted. They had the biggest study in the history of the world. From 1978 to 1988, the USSR sent out an order to every military unit in the vast Soviet Empire that any UFO, any orb, any ball of light, anything weird in the sky, all has to be investigated.
That information had to be funneled to the Ministry of Defense, to the desk of a guy named Colonel Boris Sokolov, who was in charge of this program. I met him, and he shared a lot of that information with me. He admitted, we're trying to figure this stuff out, because if we could duplicate that technology, we could kick your ass in terms of stealth. We could beat you at your own game on stealth technology. They were trying to do it.
They were trying to figure it out. We heard bits and pieces that they have recovered crashes as well, so did the Chinese, maybe the Israelis.
Also in these documents, can you tell them who you gave them to, that whole stuff?
They got into the hands of the U.S. government.
That was after I came back from Russia, the first time. I went back again in 1996.. A lot of the people who had been willing to talk to me during Glasnost were now afraid. They would not meet with me. The people who had gone on camera changed their tunes because the whole country had changed in that time period.
The documents also went to OSAP. That's the program that the DIA ran. Bigelow was the contractor for it. They hired a bunch of Russians to go through those documents, figure out the structure of the Russian UFO program, and did a lot more analysis than I could do just by myself.
In these documents, they talked about shoot-down attempts, which is something that we'll be hearing more about over the next 15 weeks, I hope. In Russia, they had this policy at first to engage these things, and they lost pilots? Yeah.
They had 40 different incidents during that study where Russian warplanes chased UFOs. Three of those cases, the UFOs turned around and shot them down. They disabled the planes, and the planes crashed. Two of those pilots died. After the third crash, the Russian Ministry of Defense put out the order, Leave them alone.
They may have, quote, incredible capacities for retaliation. Just leave them alone.
One last thing about that blew my mind. We did an episode about this, like him going to Russia, the whole thing. They talked about, in those documents, that they knew how many satellites that we had dedicated to looking for UFOs. Is that correct? Yeah.
I met this Russian scientist who had worked on their version of Star Wars. He lived in one of these secret cities. He'd never spoken to any journalist, let alone a Western journalist, and he started telling us about the work that they were doing. He showed me this tabletop model of a laser weapon that he called the weapon of the aliens. But he said he'd been involved in the Russian space program in the earliest days.
They had satellites up there that were seeing these things coming in and out of space, into Earth's atmosphere and going out. He said, the Americans, I know that you guys had those satellites. You were seeing the same stuff we were. Their intelligence agents got information from the U.S. They knew we were collecting information back then.
They know we're collecting it now.
When they said that they had jets shot down, do we have instances of jets getting shot down in America?
We do. It's kind of sketchy because a lot of those records, we have, records of the planes going down, but there's no indication that the UFOs were responsible other than the Captain Mantell incident. It's a pretty famous UFO case where he chased a UFO and then crashed. They think he might have run out of gas. I think the Air Force tried to explain he was chasing the planet Venus, which is preposterous.
Yeah, we have some.
The CIA actually fully funded a movie narrated by Rod Serling. It's called UFOs Past, Present, or Future. There's two versions. You can find it online. This is the most incredible UFO movie of all time because it's funded by the CIA to try to apologize for that incident, saying he chased Venus.
It's a cool old school documentary on UFOs narrated by the Twilight Zone guy.
Wow.
Yeah. Fact.
So the Russians, how many crafts? Supposedly, Grush said that the United States is in possession of 12..
We should back up on Grush.
Okay.
What I'm thinking is something big happened. We had these hearings, right? And everybody knows Grush because they saw him for the first time during that. In those hearings, he did not say that. And so there's an important thing there, what he said and what he couldn't say during those hearings.
So I'm not going to say that Grush has ever said that. That's not in his dobser. That's not authorized shit. If somebody said that, I don't know who said it. All we know he said was right there in that hearing.
Okay. You see what I'm saying? It's like there's a lot of rumors out there. And I don't know.
So there's 12 recovered vehicles.
You've heard it from people and I've heard it from people. Not from Grush, though. Okay.
So I'm confused. So what has Grush said? Grush said they definitely have physical crafts.
So he was really – so let me just set the scene for you with this hearing thing, right?
So I know when people think this is like orchestrated, man. We fought for every millimeter of doing that hearing, like I personally did. And so did George. And the idea was what can the public? –, what can we put out to the public and let everybody know?
this is important to us? It's the first time in history that you have Commander David Fravor, Lieutenant Ryan Graves, and then one whistleblower, a guy named David Grush. We can't validate what he said, because it's all classified information. But Commander Fravor, friends of ours, he like just told what happened to him. He chased the UFO.
Then you've got Ryan Graves, who his whole squadron has been seeing these things. You've had both on your podcast. But Grush stood up there, and he was very careful with his words. And I want people to know why. If you look at that setting, you're going to see right behind him was a guy named Chuck.
Chuck McCullough. Chuck McCullough is the former intelligence community inspector general, so like the cops of the intelligence community. And he was right behind David Grush, who is his client. So he's representing David Grush, because David Grush put a whistleblower complaint. He put – yeah, and look at those two handsome guys right there.
So there's – yeah, this is the biggest conspiracy photo of all time. Can you imagine people seeing this and being like, what are those idiots doing up there with him? But so behind David –?
Look at the beard and the glasses in the back. He looks so happy.
Yeah, dude. Yes, UFOs.
People think that that guy with the bald head is James Clapper, by the way. I got a bunch of – Yeah, it was. I got a bunch of comments that Clapper was looking at my notes. Who is that guy? I don't know.
He's just part of Ryan's organization as a – but here's the deal, man. This photo is kind of hilarious because George had ontological shock when we were in that room. It's like he's sitting there – I mean he's sitting there and seeing. after all this time this shit is being said out loud. So what happened was the seats were kind of like designated for us, because George and I were supposed to testify, by the way.
But then common wisdom says why have these journalist guys when you can hear directly from the firsthand people? And we agreed. Yeah. But what we did was we put on congressional record statements, and people should read them. if they haven't.
They're on congressional record. I did an assessment of kind of the estimate of the situation on UFOs, but he named names and programs. But what you're seeing there is – and I kind of had to fight for this. Getting his lawyer behind him should be like an obvious fucking thing. when a guy is going up to testify under oath in front of Congress.
If you believe him, he is speaking under whistleblower protection. Dude, it was hard to get his lawyer behind him. I literally had to put the lawyer behind him. So we got the lawyer behind him so he could lean in and be like, careful, Dave, careful, which he did like a bunch of times. And then there's George, looking all scrunched, and everybody's like, why Jeremy over there with no one next to him?
I think people are a little afraid of me, because, you know, a little bit of a maniac sometimes. Whatever. We're there. Dave starts talking. They ask him questions.
These weren't pre-scripted or anything. We're talking about what could be asked for sure, but they weren't pre-scripted. What Dave Grush said, and correct me or add to if I get this wrong, Dave Grush said, I did an investigation. It was my job. I was hired by, and this is a guy from the National Reconnaissance Office, the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency.
Like this guy is, he's been in the intelligence community a long time. And he sits there under oath and he says, I did an investigation. I interviewed, it was my job to look at over 2,000 special access programs, like black programs. And it was my job to find out if any of them had to do with UAP and if there's any money being hidden, like misappropriated theft. And he's like, after interviewing 40 witnesses, I found a ton of shit that supports this.
And I've, in fact, he said, I found people who worked on the craft firsthand. And they had to come in or they willingly came in. He called them hostile and non-hostile witnesses. And he's like, so I did that whole thing. The second I did that, which was my job, I was given the job.
Reprisals started happening to me. So he smartly did a whistleblower complaint through the Presidential Protection Act, Act 19 or something. He got the head of the ICIG, the former head of the ICIG, who's a lawyer. And he says, fuck, dude, here's what I know. Here's what people don't know, is the ICIG, so the intelligence community, did their own investigation into David Grush's witnesses.
And what he found, they interviewed like 40 plus under oath and immediately said, David Grush's claim is both credible and urgent. So it's not like just one guy telling you. Our intelligence community did a deep dive investigation into what David Grush told them under oath in the right, secure settings. And they're like credible, urgent.
So David Grush can tell you the basic things that happened. But you know how. he kept saying in the appropriate environment, if you've got clearance, we can do that. I'm willing to give you a list of hostile and non-hostile people that worked on the craft. You know, biologicals, he even said.
He's like, I'll give that to you today. We just got to get a SCIF and we got to make sure that you have access, you have clearance. And he was denied a SCIF that day.
He's a credible guy. He's the real deal. I mean, he had a career in the Air Force, served in Afghanistan, a distinguished career. Then he goes into the intelligence community working for the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. He was assigned by his boss to be the liaison to the UAP task force.
That's what Congress had set it up to investigate the whole UFO matter before the current program existed. And that guy who was in charge of the task force, Jay Stratton, gave him a job. Go find the special access programs that are hiding UFO stuff. Either siphoning millions of dollars or they've got technology, crash retrievals, reverse engineering, all the stuff that we've always heard, rumored. And he did.
He found it. Most of the juiciest stuff that he found, he can't say in an unclassified setting. It has to be because they will get him. They will bust his ass if they can. They've already tried.
Like four times. And that's something offline we'll talk about. There have been attempts to get him silenced, un-muzzled, by the way, to not do podcasts or shows and stuff. To get him muzzled by people that are trying to say he's talking outside of his dobser, which is what he's allowed to talk about. So they're looking for one word that he says that's outside of that.
I get asked by people in the government, has he ever told you the number of crashes? Has he ever told you locations? Like? I'm going to fucking answer you, first of all. Second of all, no, he hasn't.
Because that would be illegal if it were to be true.
So he is authorized to talk about a very limited number of things, is that correct?
And they're not vouching for their authenticity. Dobser process, which is, I don't know what it stands for, but it's like pre-pub process. He very smartly, because his lawyer is really smart, former ICIG. He's like, write it in what you want to talk about and see what they come back about, what you can't talk about. So they're not saying what he's saying is true.
They're just saying you can talk within these parameters. I would like to see if what he's saying is true. So we just need that option.
So who gives him the authority to talk about these things?
No one gives him the authority. He's taking that all on himself. He's a true whistleblower, whether you believe his claims or not. What he's doing is legal, but it is, I mean, it's a career killer, right? Dobser says they go through it and they make sure that things that are like highly sensitive or classified, right?
Like you can't say this word or this program or this name. So they kind of do it as a pre-publication thing. That's the process. Does that make sense?
I wrote a book with Colm Kelleher and Jim Lekatsky about the DIA's UFO program. It took Dobser 14 months to approve our manuscript. So they take their time.
They take their time. But also when you get pushback, where people are trying to entrap him or get people to say that he said something out of school, the Dobser people are like, no, he's fine. Like he's talked within those parameters. He just has to be careful to not accidentally say something that is outside of those parameters. And right now is a very sensitive time for that, you know, immediately.
It's interesting. We met him in Huntsville, Alabama at a conference, the SCU conference. It's a UFO event. We went down there to interview somebody else, to get him on camera. And we had been told this guy might, there's a guy that might introduce himself.
And Jeremy was shooting video of me sitting at a bar at the moment that this guy walked up and introduced himself. So he had that moment on camera. And then we got to know him a little bit. A couple months later, he comes out to Las Vegas. There was a Star Trek convention.
We were going to speak at it. And he comes out because he likes Star Trek, like everybody likes Star Trek, comes out and spends two days with us. The next day, he flies back Sunday night. Monday morning, he reports to work. Armed security guards escort him out.
He was suspended. His clearance was suspended. We were worried. Oh, Christ, was he seen at our company? and that's what happened?
But that was the beginning of his first real big trial by fire. They accused him of a bunch of stuff and said that they were going to fire him and permanently suspend his clearance.
And was he already discussing UFOs at that time?
Not with us, but he had already been investigating it on behalf of the UAP task force. And he had shared information through the whistleblower process with the inspector general.
Yeah, let me just break it down real simple. So here he is. He gets this job. He's looking at all these special access programs. He's a fucking brilliant guy.
He's a physicist, by the way. He's a brilliant guy in general. So he discovers all this shit. He starts getting reprisals. And then, the moment George is talking about, I kind of had heard about him.
All of a sudden, he comes up to him at this bar where we were at. That's the first time that he talked to anybody outside of government. Now, he didn't share anything, he shouldn't, but he's kind of coming to George and then to me to say, I'm doing this whistleblower thing. I am concerned for my safety and, just in general, for my career. He wanted a journalist or journalists to know, not to report on it.
So imagine that. We don't even break the story that we had before anybody. Right. So what I did, because I'm his harpoon, I did a deep dive into this guy for months and months and months. He actually came to my home, you know, met my family, like, and I got to know him.
And I we vetted and vetted. OK, this guy is who he says he is. He's 100 percent who he says he is. So we kind of got that layer of trust. This is not some sham or something like that.
But then what happens is what George is talking about, the second trip. So I'm already talking at this Star Trek thing because my friend growing up from my jujitsu classes, Rod Roddenberry. So he's like the son of Gene Roddenberry. So he's just like, dude, Jeremy, come talk to a bunch of trackies about real UFOs. And I'm like, cool, I'll do it.
It's in Georgia's hometown. So that was a great opportunity for Dave to come and meet with us again and just talk to us. Right. Yeah. And then that Monday when he gets back, he's walked out of the Geospatial Intelligence Agency or NRO, depending on which one you want to identify him with.
He's out, man. And they did some bullshit on him, like time card, like out of 12,000 billable hours, maybe there's like 30 hours somewhere where you didn't do it right. They were doing anything they could to fuck with this guy. So that was our first like heads up. Oh, dude, how this guy gets treated is going to dictate everybody else that has come to us in private saying, I think this is illegal, what I'm doing.
Right.
Among the complaints they issued to try to take away his security clearance was that he had mental health issues. So he was suspended for a couple of months. They did a background investigation of his allegations, the allegations that were made against him. And they cleared him, reinstated him, reinstated his security clearance. He stayed on the job for a couple more months and then retired because he sees the handwriting on the wall and he left.
And that's when he started plotting the next chapter. And now we're seeing the backlash process firing up once again after he testifies in front of Congress in that hearing and offers to tell them more in a classified setting and spill all the beans. They got to find a media guy to go after this article in The Intercept.
Yes, The Intercept did a smash piece. By the way, we already knew all about Dave Gresh's PTSD. And at the time, his best friend, one of his dear friends, just got off the phone with him, blew his own brains out. So he was like drinking. He was in a bad place.
First day, day one, I talked to him. I said, what dirt are they going to pull up on you? If what you're telling me is true, they're going to get some dirt. And he goes, look, man, I had PTSD. I dealt with it.
I survived it. Nothing horrible happened. But, you know, he told us day one, man, that Intercept thing was some bullshit. They come in and they they try to discredit what he said because of his PTSD. shit.
And the thing is that happened to Lazar. Like, if you believe or don't believe, don't care. That did happen to Lazar, too, where people try to discredit his character, to try to minimize what he's telling you. So we saw that with Dave. And that was only the visible stuff.
I'm telling you, things behind the scenes that have been done to Dave and his family, it's disgusting. Like, not even just like pull your clearance, kind of shit. Like there are people that don't want him. He's an embarrassment, you know, to the Department of Defense. If what he's saying, he's coming out of school and he's saying, I saw some B.S.
Like they don't want that.
So we are in the pushback phase. They not only the intelligence community and military folks tipped off a reporter and said, go look for this. And they found some police records of where he was drinking too much and was suicidal. And that was adjudicated. It was looked at.
The Department of Defense, his employers looked into it. He'd gone through treatment. He got past it. He was a better person, a stronger person for it. But they leaked that information to besmirch his character.
And now we see additional pushback in Congress. So this committee that held this hearing in the UFO UAP matters was a subcommittee on national security of the Oversight Committee, the larger committee. Since that hearing happened, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee got together with the chairman of the Oversight Committee and decided no more UFO hearings in the House. Enough of that bullshit. We're not doing that anymore because, in their words, it could be an embarrassment to the Department of Defense.
You're damn right. it would be an embarrassment for what's going to come out.
I mean, it was a big success, you know, to have this publicly done. It's the first time in history that we have direct witnesses, like two pilots and then a whistleblower. It was the first time in history we fought for every millimeter of that territory to get that to happen. It was not received well by the intelligence community. You know, they did not like that.
that happened. And that's pretty telling to me. I believe that we should do it again.
Now, when Grush first found out about this stuff, he was tasked with trying to uncover it.
It was his job.
It was his job. And why did they, like, what was the suspicion? Like, what was the initial impetus to get him to look into this stuff?
Look, it's a suspicion we've had for a long time, that there is a crash retrieval program, that we have recovered technology that is not made here, that we're trying to reverse, engineer it and figure out how it works so that we can duplicate it.
Right, but who sent him?
So there's a UAP task force. So the UAP task force was formally created by Congress to look into the bigger picture.
And they suspected that something was wrong.
Jay Stratton was the head of it. He'd been at the Defense Intelligence Agency. He was with Naval Intelligence. He kept getting pulled back into the UFO arena from different jobs. Very credible guy.
He was in charge of the UAP task force. He put together this amazing briefing document that included film and video and photos of UFOs that have been gathered by the U.S. military over the past 30 years. He'd give those presentations to Congress, to the Joint Chiefs, to defense contractors, because he wanted people to know about it. And as part of that job, he assigned Dave to look into special access programs.
Can you find evidence of crash retrievals, reverse engineering, any of that stuff we've been hearing rumored for 30, 40 years?
And this is really about oversight. So the way I understand it from people involved is that, look, we have to have oversight over these types of programs and technologies. It's good we're doing them. It's good we keep it secret. That's their standpoint.
But they're like, we have to have a process of oversight. Do you remember the Church Committee back in the 60s? Was it 60s, 70s?
70s.
So the Church Committee. Everybody in the intelligence agency that I know will say there's BC and AC, before the Church Committee, after the Church Committee. It basically was a way to level the playing field. so there's not this type of shenanigans that are going on, the fucked up shit they learned from the Church Committee. So what they're saying now is, look, some stuff needs to be kept secret for national security.
If we can turn some of this shit into weapon systems, right, like we don't give out blueprints to make an atom bomb. We admit atom bombs are real, but we don't give out blueprints. So some of it needs to be kept secret, but they're all about oversight. If you don't have communication between the subcontractors that are working on this exotic stuff, if it exists, we need to be aware of that at some level. We, meaning Senate and Senate Intelligence Committee, all this stuff, oversight.
So without that oversight, you're just letting people run amok and go crazy with this stuff. And I'll tell you firsthand, right, there are people that have come to me and George that are currently employed in agencies. And they feel like they are being held hostage in these programs. Like there's ways to keep people in programs and to not let them out by dangling this like, well, what are you going to do if you lose your clearances? You're going to go work at Home Depot?
You know, that's the way that I've heard some people describe to me and George, of why they're so terrified right now is because their whole lives, their wives, their dogs, their children, are all dependent upon these little faction groups, kind of keeping them in a program. If that's true, that's fucking horrible.
And what just happened to Dave Grush, the sliming of Dave Grush by this really pretty poorly researched article is an example to all them. Anybody out there is a whistleblower. You're thinking of coming forward and spilling the beans. This could happen to you. Did you ever have an affair?
Did you ever have an out of wedlock kid? Did you have a drug problem? Because whatever it is, we'll find it and it'll come out.
It's interesting that they would use PTSD to discredit him. for a war veteran. That seems insane. You're shaming someone for seeking help from something that most soldiers come back and have to deal with. That's really insane.
It's low is what it is.
Well, it doesn't make sense either. It just doesn't make sense. How can you do that? It doesn't make sense in terms of the reader's perception, because I think most readers are going to look at that and go, well, the guy came back from war and he sought help. How many guys come back from war, and they're fine?
Isn't it? It's probably less. Probably quite a bit less.
And a lot of people never get over the PTSD and they take their lives.
The number of veterans that take their lives in this country is astonishing.
It's four times as many that die in combat.
It's astonishing. It's terrifying.
Thank you for vocalizing that, because to me I'm like, what the fuck?
Well, that's just some fucking egghead writer who has an agenda. But it's also there's this natural inclination that I think we all have to poke holes in something that seems fantastic. It's like this guy, what is he doing? He's coming out. He's a whistleblower.
Has he seen these things? Oh, he works for the UAP task force and he's uncovering this? What do we know about this guy? Oh, he's nuts. Oh, he has PTSD.
He was suicidal. He's making things up. He's unstable. Instantly, you can sort of dismiss.
And I understand if I was watching this in 2D reality and I'm just watching the TV and I'm seeing these weird guys behind here and I'm thinking this is a setup. I do see that and I do see that. why would you take this seriously? But if you're in our shoes, mine and George's, and you see this kind of go through and you talk with people on a daily basis. People come to you over years.
You vet them. Man, look, from where I'm standing in the 3D version of this, I wish it was more organized. I feel like we're fighting, like pushing that – what's that dude that pushes the boulder up the hill, kind of keeps rolling down?
Sisyphus?
Yeah, some Greek. That's what it feels like, right? One step forward, two steps back. I think we made a lot of progress, but I see how it looks so bizarre on the outside. But I will say for sure, Dave is who he says he is.
He had the job that he says he did have. And he absolutely fundamentally believes that what he uncovered is non-human technologies. And he said that. And I believe that we have the right and the need to try to do discovery on that. And the only way we're going to do that is if people say, we want to know.
And the hearings help with that kind of thing.
Now, this stuff, I would imagine, is very compartmentalized. So I would also imagine there's probably some people in government that, whether it's because of their ego or whether it's because of whatever position they have, that they need to have access to this information, or they want to have access to information. Do we know who does and who doesn't?
You want to go with me? Go ahead.
Short answer is kind of. We kind of know who has control of some of these programs. now. George and I have never found somebody that knows the totality of it. But we have been, as he likes to say, pretty high up the food chain.
So we get to a point where we get to people that have actively worked in what they call the legacy UFO program or program. So these are like the actual UFO programs that are not public. And when we, when we get to people in that position, the brick wall for us is always this. They're like, I'm not for disclosure. And I'm like, OK, well, tell me to stop that.
What do you mean? The public you shouldn't kick a sleeping dog is one of the things we were told. And I'm like, well, what like? what is so frickin scary that the public would know something? that, even though we're friends now and you have direct knowledge that you, first of all, won't testify to Congress?
We got nose. No way am I doing that? I'm like, why? There's something. we keep getting up to that point where there's something and we don't know what it is.
And maybe it's just they want to keep Gollum's ring. They don't want anybody else to have control of this shit. Or there's something they're not telling us. that is so gnarly that they don't think people can handle it.
There are, you know, different scenarios you could explore. For example, you know, you ask what could be so terrible that they can't tell us about it? Let's say these aliens, wherever they're from, made us, that we're a genetic experiment, that they created our religions, our religious figures, that we are an agricultural product, that somehow they harvest us, that our time is limited, you know, that once the experiment's over, poof, we go away. I remember when there was a push back to have a designer universe, intelligent design universe in the schools. And I wrote a column about it, just said, hey, be careful what you wish for, because you might find out that the intelligent designer isn't God that you're thinking of.
It might be some alien science project or something like that. You know, you can imagine a lot of different things that would be really disturbing to people to come out. I don't know if that's the reason for the secrecy. I suspect it has a lot more to do with national security, us not wanting the Russians and Chinese to know how far down the road we are.
We know that to be true.
We've been told that. You can't tell your friends without telling your enemies.
It's probably a multi-layered reason.
Yeah. I just don't know the top layer. It's killing me.
It's interesting, because how would they know the top layer? I mean, what kind of confirmation would you have to have that we were genetically engineered?
How much data would you have to have before you accepted that?
So you got compartmentalization, you said, right? So I know a guy in the 70s that was working at Lawrence Livermore Laboratory. He's not ready to break from the fold yet, right? He's not ready to do it. But he was working on supercapacitors in the 70s or something.
And he said something like, I know the three companies that make these. He was given a device with no markings on it, no, nothing. And he was to reverse engineer it. He is convinced this was not made by us. It was so efficient, almost 100% efficient.
So you get people like that.
What was it?
Like a supercapacitor. Is that the word for it?
Superconductor.
Superconductor. So it was just some device that he was, as an electro kind of specialist, was working on. But this is just a one-off story. to give you an example.
What exactly is a superconductor?
I don't know, dude. That's what Google's for.
Yeah.
I wish I was smarter.
Superconductivity would allow the transfer of energy. Like they're trying to get it at low temperatures.
This means an electric current can flow, but the electrons are jostled around a bit as they move. So they lose energy as they travel. This jostling is called electrical resistance. In a superconductor, there is zero resistance. And an electrical current can flow perfectly smoothly without losing any energy.
That sounds right.
And so this is something that apparently... So this was something that was just discussed, like recently, about a superconductor at room temperature. It was kind of debunked.
Oh, was it?
Yeah. I believe it was debunked.
I saw it on the news.
Was it debunked?
It's been debunked a couple of times. They keep taking another stab at it.
Is it like Chinese propaganda or something?
No, I think they couldn't replicate it or... Find out what it is. I think that's exactly it. Yeah, they couldn't replicate it.
So check it out, though. What I can say is... So I have two pieces of graphene, and they're like these little squares. And one is... They're metamaterials, meaning it doesn't occur in nature.
We made them. I have two kinds, two pieces. One piece is a 3-degree variation from perfect atomic layering. The other one is like a 7-degree variation from perfect atomic layering. So like graphite, from a pencil, I think, and they layer the atoms perfect.
The one that's 7-degree and the one that's 3-degree, if you have an ice cube, and I take the 7-degree of orientation off from perfect, and I push it into an ice cube, it's like a hot knife through butter. It instantly gets cold, and your finger gets cold, and it stops in the ice, right? Because it's transferring the heat. I guess this is a superconductor, I think. It pushes the heat from my fingers right in.
So that material has unique principles and properties. because of the way they atomically layered it. The 3-degree one, it goes much deeper and faster because it's like a faster transaction of that heat. So we've learned that metamaterials, when we orient them, when we make them in a certain way, they have special or unique properties. So back to this guy.
A lot of what it seems like we're doing is trying to get derivative technologies from something that's more advanced than what we have. And they could be little things. So all he saw was a superconductor. I believe that's the right word. That's all he saw.
He only has suspicion. It's never been put to market since the 70s. What the fuck? He worked on one. So that's one type of whistleblower or witness that we got.
But there are other types. There are other people that are physically working on the machines. Then there's people that are just in a bureaucratic role. Then you've got people like David Grush, who do discovery on finances and programs and interview people. This whole tapestry, or mosaic of individuals, leads me to feel that where there's smoke, there's fire.
All of this, there's something to it. It's just, where is it from?
I think we're in kind of a pushback mode now, though. Since that hearing, that might have been the high watermark. Jeremy and I have been talking about it publicly for a while. The closer we get to the goodies, the closer the public gets, or Congress gets to actually seeing the saucers or finding out where the programs are, the harder these guys are going to push back. The true keepers of the secrets have dug their feet in.
I mentioned about this House Chairman, Intelligence Committee Chairman. He represents Wright-Patterson Air Base. He gets a lot of campaign donations from big aerospace companies. Wright-Patterson, of course, home of Hangar 18 and all the rumors about Roswell wreckage and other things being stored there. That's his district.
He's the guy that said, no more hearings.
Is that Representative Turner?
Turner, Mike Turner.
He kind of put the kibosh on it.
He claims China is a bigger threat to the U.S. than aliens.
Well, that's probably true. I don't know.
They're probably doing a lot of stuff.
I would say that's probably true.
Do you guys remember the American Computer Company? Do you know that story? The American Computer Company, I'm pretty sure that's the name of the company, American Computer Company had a whole section on their website about the back engineering of technology that came about from the Roswell crash and about how Bell Laboratories in New Jersey had an Air Force base right outside of it that was supposedly to protect New York City. They're like, but the problem is New York City's, you've got to fly over to New York City. It seems like it's protecting Bell Laboratories.
And Bell Laboratories is where he said that they back engineered all this shit, including fiber optics, including the discovery of a bunch of different things that came out supposedly of back engineering that wreckage. See if you can find that.
I mean, I hope that's true, dude. I hope that if we have-.
Is this it? This is the accuracy of what-.
Colonel Phil Corso is the guy.
The truth is out there, and so are the cranks. From 2000.. That's true. Yeah. Is the company existing anymore?
I don't think so, but this is- Okay. Don't believe everything you read online. American Computer Company, its secret alien research, have been around for four years. Jack Schulman, owner of American Computer Company, now operating as compamerica.com, posted a story to his website. He claimed that Bell Telephone Laboratories had stolen the idea for the silicone chip from the alien spacecraft that supposedly crashed in Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947..
Prior to Bell's announcement that year that John Bardeen, Walter Brattain, and William Shockley had invented the transistor, computing had depended on vacuum tubes. So why is it that, 50 years on, we can't use the alien's technology to violate the theory of relativity to travel beyond light speed? Well, that's a big jump. It seems that a cartel of technology companies and oil producers have colluded to prevent the development of high-speed chips. Mr.
Schulman posts his theories at roswellinternet.com where he also claims to have invented PCs and Windows and to be working on a chip- well, that seems weird- working on a chip that will run at 12 terahertz, a thousand times the speeds of today's fastest CPUs. One way you can guess the veracity of web rumor is the writer's typing style. If an author randomly switches to uppercase for effect, then he's probably a crank. Wow. That's the only thing I could really find right now.
That's a fuckin' half-hearted attempt to dispute what he said.
There was a guy named Bill Corso who was an army colonel. He worked in this technology office in the Pentagon, and he's the guy who came out with a book on the 50th anniversary of Roswell. He said, I saw that stuff. We had it in a couple of file cabinets, and he personally took it to. Bell Labs, claims to have given them the chips that inspired the later work.
You know, a lot of people don't find him credible, that he takes too much credit for doing all kinds of other things in history, but I met him before his book came out years ago, and Bigelow and Hal Puthoff and those guys went back to see him and Jacques Vallee, and they thought he was credible. They didn't necessarily believe everything he said, but it goes right along the lines of what you're saying there.
And so what did he describe that he saw in those file cabinets?
He said fiber optics, computer chips, among other things. I think he said night vision was inspired by something they got out of those chips. I mean, out of those chips.
I have no idea. It would be so cool if we had success in derivative technologies, and they were in our hands. I think I would like to believe we're more responsible with that shit. I know for a fact that, and George can attest to this, that the UFO topic is taken at the level of above weapons of mass destruction within our government, within government agencies. They take it that seriously?
So that is not a throwaway statement. I'm telling you, I know that, and George can attest to it. So here's the deal, man. If that's true, then I do understand the perspective. Whoever gets the technology first wins.
But my understanding is that we have not been able to duplicate the core technologies. And if that's true, because it's so far ahead of what we've got, what we can do is kind of like get derivative technologies. All you have to know is what the legislation that was put into the National Defense Authorization Act. I know that's not a word that normal people are going to understand or hear about often, but I've become educated on it. So the National Defense Authorization Act of 2024..
It ends up being signed, hopefully, by Biden. Any president has to sign it. And also the Intelligence Authorization Act. So the language that they put into these is all people need to know, because they wouldn't fabricate this out of thin air, and they wouldn't spend resources on creating this language if they didn't have more than a good suspicion that we have this kind of tech and that we're trying to reverse engineer it. It's online.
Anybody can look at Schumer, I think, put out a big bill, and then there was an amendment to it. And if you read this language, they're like, any of these non-terrestrial craft, I mean, they are so thorough. They're like, if they're being hidden in private technology, we're cutting off your funding. So they've got a carrot and a stick approach. I've talked to some of the people that formed this language, right?
So what they're saying is, the carrot is, if you come forward within, I think, 90 days, once it's signed, and you tell us that you have technologies that are not from here, then there'll be no penalty to you. If you don't tell us your funding is cut, we're going to find out your funding is cut. So it's like a carrot and a stick kind of thing. If you read this language, it's almost insane to read, because they know that there are these programs. Now, where the craft or things that they're working on are from, how do we even get there to know that?
I don't know. But they do know that we have this shit, these craft of unknown origin.
They used the term non-human intelligence in that legislation 26 times. I mean, it's astonishing. There's this Senate majority leaders, Chuck Schumer, standing up there in a nod to his late mentor, Harry Reid, saying, we're going to get to the bottom of this stuff, and it's real. And he acknowledges that that legislation was crafted with the White House's cooperation. So it's the Biden administration, somebody in that administration, signed off on this.
It's astonishing.
People don't like it, though. If you're in the IC, and you've got these secret programs, or if you're, let's say, with Lockheed, let's say you're Lockheed, and you've got some really cool thing, they might be looking to move it now, because I don't think they're really worried about funding being cut off. I think a lot of these black programs can be funded asymmetrically, like in different ways than getting money right from Congress. But I'll tell you, that language tells you everything, because it shows you that they are taking it so seriously that they have some sort of pre-knowledge that these programs exist. In fact, they probably know where these objects are being stored.
Now, you said some number. You and I might talk to similar people, but definitely that number floated around. I have no idea if that's the correct number. I just know that they have been told where these holding facilities are. They have been told.
All they've got to do is get the authority to go, knock on that door and go inside.
What is the explanation of how we acquired these crafts? There's crash retrieval, but then there's also ones that are intact.
Remember. Lazar said that nearly all of the ones that he saw, except for one that had a big hole in the middle of it, all looked intact. It was as if they were dug up at archaeological sites or there were gifts, like throwing a cell phone into a chimpanzee cage. Here you go, crazy humans. Knock yourself out.
Let's see how you do with this. They're just left there for us to find as a challenge to us, I guess.
Yeah, I have the same problem as you. I'm like, these motherfuckers are not crashing. If they're coming from somewhere else, they're not crashing. Right. But people will say to me, look, man,
we have airplane problems and sometimes even planes crash. Maybe there's other circumstances where these things could have crashed because they were hit with some technology. Maybe two of them were dogfighting.
Electrical storms.
I don't know.
That was the Varginha Brazil story, right? Electrical storm.
Also radar. Some people suspect that really powerful radar can interfere with them.
Right, because some of the radars are also weaponry. That's the thing. You can have energy reception but also output on something. So there's some cool devices that actually shoot high laser weaponry. But my thing is, I don't know if they really crashed.
George is kind of edging towards maybe archaeological digs, maybe gifts.
Lazar said that one of them supposedly was from an archaeological dig, right? Do they know where?
Not that I know of. Does he know?
No, he was just literally, that's one of the many things that they tried to impose upon him. But remember, they tried to impose a lot of shit on Lazar. He is so succinct with, this is what I know to be real. I had hands on this. Now they told him a whole bunch of crazy shit.
Like what?
Dude, just a quick, like. I should put that shit out. I'm just crazy.
We are viewed by the aliens as containers of souls.
I mean, you're not going to tell a guy working on propulsion that. He was able to sit down for a brief time and go through a document, like a huge briefing document. In there he saw what they said was a biological biopsy of an alien. He didn't care. He was going to the propulsion part.
But they told him so much wild stuff. He's like, this has to be a joke. But then when he said, he differentiates. He goes, but when I, you can't fake, he said, what I saw. You can't fake your hands trying to get close to the reactor and not being able to touch it.
You can't fake something that big lifting like that. So he says, I know for sure what I worked on was not from here. But he goes, everything else. they told me, it was words on paper. And I respect that about him.
And maybe they wanted him to leak it to John Lear. Remember, he's like friends with this guy, John Lear, who's like already on their radar. The best photo of Area 51 from lake level ever was 1977, the year I was born. John Lear's kicking it out there, stirring up shit at Area 51, taking photos. So he does a whole panoramic of photos of Area 51, sees a truck coming from a distance, being John Lear, takes the roll, puts it under his ashtray, puts in new film, snaps it again, they confiscate his film.
But he had some underneath his cigarette lighter, whatever. And he actually gave those to me. So I got the best shot of Area 51 you'll ever see from lake level was by John Lear. Now, Bob knew John. That's where all the conspiracies come in.
Because John's, like this UFO nut, the godfather of conspiracy. But when...
How does Bob meet John?
Well, this is your turf.
Through a guy named Gene Hough,
who was a... Who was his post? exposure, post...
He met him before he worked out there. Really? There was a guy named Gene Hough who did a real estate appraisal for John Lear's house. And Gene was friends with Bob. And they...
Gene and Lear struck up a conversation, brought Bob into the... To meet him. And it was only after that that Lazar got hired out there. He would have arguments with Lear about this crazy UFO stuff. Because I'd already done a couple of interviews with him in the late 80s.
With Lear?
With Lear. Before I met Lazar. Lazar was not a believer. He said, I don't believe it. Poor John.
He's crazy with this UFO stuff.
So this is fact. And it's so funny. Like, knowing all these guys. Because I wasn't there like he was. But I get to talk with everybody and grill them.
The... I think it was Jim Goodall that was in the car with him. He remembers Bob saying, Oh, poor John Lear. And Jim Goodall is like, Why? And he's like, Because he believes this UFO nonsense.
So that was where Lazar was at prior to getting the job out at the test site. Because he didn't believe any of this nonsense. In fact, so much so, that, remember, I think he told you when he first went in, they had a little decal of an American flag on the saucer. And he thought, Oh, those idiots. Everybody thought UFOs are from outer space and they're ours.
You know? Right. And then he quickly realized, Wait a second. That, you know, this isn't, this can't be ours.
It's fascinating to see now that Dave Grush has come forward and give some credence to, we have reverse engineering programs. We have a crash retrieval program. Aerospace companies are stashing this stuff in some hangars somewhere. All the stuff that Lazar has said as being true, they now say, Oh, gosh, I guess it is true. But that Lazar, he's still a liar.
We don't believe him. You know? You have to do some mental gymnastics to do that.
It's just fascinating when you see these crafts move exactly the way that he described them in 1989.. Yeah.
Straight up.
It's pretty wild, because you're seeing footage from like, what is it, 2014 or something like that?
Yeah, the gimbal. Yeah.
And it's like, it moved exactly like he described. Turns on its side, shoots off.
So that's a common thing is Bob Lazar must be the luckiest con man on planet Earth to get so much shit right over all these years.
What's that? What's the Controlled Disclosure Campaign Plan? What is this from, John? This is listed at the bottom of that document. They're talking about the NDAA for 2024 and this is the UAP section.
I've been reading through. Controlled Disclosure Campaign with respect to unidentified anomalous phenomenon. recorded records originated prior to review board termination. This review board, I'm not sure what this is, talks about all the, like, they get all of this information and you better give it to them is sort of what it says.
They want to set up a review board that would basically declassify stuff that they come across.
Yeah, but I'm being told by people involved that that's not good enough. Like, this is one step, which is to get this presidential review board and you get a bunch of sociologists and scientists and some Nobel Prize winners and you look at what can be declassified for the American public in a controlled way, and that's really nice. they're doing it, but everybody on the inside that I know is like, we need a church-style committee. It's not okay to just have a disclosure panel. You need oversight and to get that oversight we need access.
The only way that we're going to get that is by forcing senators. Like, where are all the senators in all this? We did this hearing with all these congresspeople. Where are all the senators listening to the public being like, okay, I'm going to get after that. They're the only ones with the power to create a church-style committee.
Where are the senators right now? And so, that's really, this language is so important. I hope people go, look it up and they read it, because it's just astonishing when you hear what they're actually doing.
and it's getting a little weird too. The exercise of eminent domain? Yeah. They can go and take anything from anyone who's got anything? Yeah.
Look at this.
The federal government shall exercise eminent domain over any and all recovered technologies of unknown origin and biological evidence of non-human intelligence that may be controlled by private persons or entities in the interest of the public good. Wow.
Yeah, dude.
The fact that that is in that paper is crazy.
So, it's not passed yet. So, they're going to debate this when they get back from what they call recess now. So, it's really good that everybody hears this. This is going to be debated by your representatives. This needs to pass or we're screwed.
This has to pass and then the president has to sign it.
It's important too. You've got to figure that if, say, Lockheed or one of these big aerospace companies really does have this stuff, it's incredibly valuable. I mean, it would be worth untold millions of dollars. The technology. they could change the world forever.
So, they don't want to give it up. If not just for national security reasons and because of the value of it, monetary value. So, this would change that and take it. I mean, I guess it could apply to Element 115 if there's a piece of that laying around somewhere.
I don't know. I mean, actually, they did say private or corporate kind of. So, it's like basically... So, I am of two emotions about this. One is like, so the government gets to come in and take everything?
Like, that feels a little weird. But I do believe that the spirit of this is to get to the core of the question. Have we been reverse engineering technology? not from here? And if we have been, there needs to be oversight.
So, I am for this, but this is not going to help the American and global public learn more. And that's the thing we have to remember. That's why Grush can't talk unless he's in a skiff with people with access. These people are not for what George and I are for, which is that we need to know the truth about this. I want to.
I'm greedy with the truth about this, but this is not going to tell the American public the truth. What it's going to do is within the intelligence communities, it's going to inform everybody on a bigger scale, which means we could have better scientists on it. We could have better people working on it. I do hope that splashes over to the public, that we get to learn more about this, because I want to learn more about it. Of course.
Who doesn't? Yeah. It's just wild seeing that language. Yeah. It just does not seem like they would put something like that in there, unless they knew something.
Yeah. Exactly. This is Chuck Schumer, Senate Majority Leader, who got up. He didn't just slip it into the bill. He made a big deal about it.
He made an announcement, a speech on the floor and emphasized that, you know, having that non-human intelligence in that bill 26 times is astonishing. And the fact that he says the White House supported it shows how far we've come in a short period of time. I mean, I'd never saw that coming from Schumer. We knew that Marco Rubio and Kirsten Gillibrand of the Senate were into this issue, but did not see it from him.
Yeah, but where are they now? Right now? Why is everybody being so damn quiet? You know, the thing is, they need to fight. in order for us...
We need... One last time. In my opinion, we need a church-style committee where we get more information to the public, because I want the public to know as much as they can.
Don't you think they're probably quiet until more information comes out? Like, they're just kind of like waiting to see what becomes of this?
Who's waiting? Like the Senate? Yeah. Dude, the thing is is that if I had a political career and a hundred things that I'm dealing with, the public needs to tell our representatives what we want them to do, so are they kind of sitting back and being quiet? Maybe.
I know Rubio came out and said, look, they're so careful of saying what they don't know, and I appreciate that, but he's like, look, I have been testified to, or people have come to me and our groups and they've said that they're worried about their own well-being, that they have worked on these, directly worked on these things, so he is being informed and maybe they're being a little quiet, but now is the time for them to pass this through. They have to debate it and go for it, man. This is a big opportunity that we have now to get closer to this truth. It might happen. It might not.
The fascinating answer was the guy saying that it's not in the public. good for this to get out.
God, I wish I knew rather what that meant. Because the big speculation, there's a bunch of big speculations, but the big one has always been that we were genetically engineered. I mean, that's something that Zechariah Sitchin talked about when describing the Sumerian texts and those ancient clay tablets that show this very large, strange-looking humanoid with a humanoid on his lap that has a tail. That's very bizarre.
It's like Childhood's End. Have you read that book? Arthur C. Clarke? No.
So how they acclimate human society, if I remember the book properly, is they have all these motherships just hover all over the earth and they sit there for generations, acclimating people to them because the ETs or whatever, they've got a problem. The problem is they look like the fucking devil. Oh, wow. That was the book. I don't mean to give it away for people, but it was so crazy.
Oh, that's amazing.
So speculating right now, just speculating, because it's driving me crazy. What do you think, if this is true, we're just saying, if this is true, if we're being visited by something, what could be so?
powerfully devastating that these keepers of the secrets have literally, all of them, pretty much stopped at the same place in talking to me and George, which is like, I am not for disclosure on this. There's something they're not telling us that is so heavy.
Well, it could be a bunch of things, right? It could be the fact that they do want to get control of the technology before enemies do. That makes sense. But it also could be the genetic engineering thing, because there's a weird thing with human beings and lower primates. The lower primates are all still around, you know, and there was a bunch of different kinds of humans that didn't make it, you know, Neanderthal and Denisovan, and there's a bunch of other ones there that keep discovering new ones.
But, God, there's a giant leap between us and the other primates, a weird one, real weird. We vary so wildly in terms of how we look. We vary so wildly in the environments that we can live in. We have hyperintelligence in comparison to everything else that's on the planet, like giant leaps above. in terms of our ability to manipulate our environment.
We're not like anything else.
And, you know,
the thing, when you look at us and you look at primates, you go, oh, yeah, we're similar. You know, when you look at us and you look at chimps, you look at, you know, bonobos and stuff, you're like, yeah, I guess humans are kind of similar to those in a little bit, like you've watched Chimp Empire, the show on Netflix. But, boy, big fucking difference, and they're still around. They're still around looking exactly the same. And we somehow or another advance to this very bizarre thing that flies around in metal tubes all over the planet and sends video through space.
We're so much different than them. And, you know, they are our ancient, ancient ancestors, right? They're our ancient cousins.
Like, what happened? Would people freak out if that story came out?
Yeah, I think it would. Well, I think it would really throw a monkey wrench into religion, for sure. I think religion would probably adapt, and, you know, that this was also created by God and these are messengers of God, or something like that. It would probably come up with some sort of, if that turned out to be absolutely true. But, you know, the doubling of the human brain size over a period of two million years is the biggest mystery in the entire fossil record, apparently.
And they don't know. There's a bunch of speculation. A lot of, like, questions and guesses, and, you know, different things that we could have done that could have facilitated that. But that's a big one, man. That's a weird one.
It's weird. I got a question about that, right? So this is something I'm struggling with. Like, could you tell the general public that the base understanding, you know, that we're not alone, that there's some craft from somewhere else. We don't have to say from where we don't know.
Could you tell them, could you say that to the public officially in some way and still avoid what they call strategic surprise, like this idea that, like, we can work on it and work on it really well and make sure that we don't get strategically surprised by another nation. You could keep your security in place. Could you do all of that if you let the one thing out the box, if it was officially acknowledged that we're not alone? Or do you think people would just start going crazy for more answers? Because I think that's the fear of people.
They can't just say one thing.
I think, in today's day and age, with the news cycle that we have now, where things are just in the public eye, out of, instantaneously, nothing sticks, everything keeps moving, there's scandals and wars constantly, I don't think it would register. I think people would have to have actual physical encounters with UFOs before it really made sense to them. Because I think right now it's just this idea. It's in the air. It's a vapor.
It's just, you could talk about it if you'd like. You could read about it if you'd like. You could watch blurry videos if you'd like. But it doesn't have any weight in your real world. Now, if we start seeing them, if they're hovering over Los Angeles and they're indescribable and they rocket off into insane speeds and smaller crafts come out of the mothership, and if that kind of shit happens, that would get real weird.
That would get real weird, real quick. And that could lead to chaos. That could absolutely lead to chaos. And if we, somehow or another, had proof that, you know, maybe we are some sort of a science project or some product of genetic engineering, or maybe the human farm thing is real, that they literally created us to try to get us to do things here or to try to recreate souls, which is like a very bizarre thought. You know, that the soul is a thing that we carry around.
A commodity. And that there's some sort of value to having so many souls.
That's like, this is old school. This is my gateway. drug into UFOs was John Lear. And first time I sit down with him, you know, he's like, got this big cigar and he's looking at me and he's like,
we're all property.
We're property. You know, I'm like, what the fuck is he talking about? And he was talking about how the aliens saw us as kind of like a wine, and our bodies are containers and our souls are being matured as like a commodity. You know, for these aliens. Like, he was a wild dude.
Like, I'm not saying I believe any of this. I'm just saying he gave me that idea day one.
When you said matured, like, is a soul of an intelligent person more valuable than the soul of a dummy?
I wish we could ask John here, but he's dead.
You know what I'm saying? Like what, like, what, what, what does that mean in terms of like aging our souls, maturing our souls?
Maybe through experience, you know, like hardship, experience, love, joy, that maybe, I'm just talking crazy right now, but this is something I can do. the John layer. John, would say every experience you have in life is what makes your soul mature, from your joy and your love to your hate and your anger. live without envy, hate, or greed. That's my John layer.
It makes sense.
if your soul is ultimately a representation of who you are and how you stand in life. It would, it would make sense that that would be fortified by your life experiences and that would make it stronger, like, like everything else. You know, like your life experiences make you wiser. When, if the soul's a real thing, you know, the more value you put into the world, the, the better you behave, the nicer you are, the more you learn to be honest and truthful. All the different things that we hold up as high qualities for human beings would make them, it would make sense that that would like enrich your soul.
And just getting better in life, right? Like if, for you 20 years ago and you today, we all hope that we look at our past self and we say we've learned something. Sure. We become a better person, become more loving, empathetic, better and more creative at, at presenting ourselves into the world and making a difference. So that, that's a cool way to look at life.
That was his cosmology. Hmm.
That's, I mean, it's a fascinating idea, but what's terrifying is that if we're a commodity, then, you know, we're like beef cows that are eating all the grass that we want because it's valuable for them to get fat. You know, that, that the chaos on this, on this planet is actually engineered to ensure more rich souls.
You guys should talk about that.
Yeah, he likes this. I know some people that, that have been pretty far up the food chain that believe that, that, that there is mass manipulation of human affairs on a global scale for reasons that we can't understand.
And mass manipulation by humans or non-humans?
Non-humans. Manipulating humans by non-humans to do things that they want us to do. There are some theories.
Like. what kind of things, specifically? War, for example.
Really? There's a, what's it called? The Gods of Eden. A guy named William Brambley, an attorney, sets out to write a book about the causes of war. And everywhere he goes in, throughout human history, he finds evidence of some kind of a exterior manipulation of human affairs that they somehow benefit from us killing each other on a massive scale.
William Brambley, Gods of Eden.
And what, what is the speculation? Like, what could it be that they would benefit, how would they benefit? Is it disease?
Maybe it's souls. Maybe releasing souls so that they can recycle them? I don't know. It's been 25 years since I read that book, but it's worth a read. I look back at the.
earlier, this year. We had three UFOs, I'm using air quotes, shot out of the sky by the U.S. military. That's the story that gets printed in newspapers. U.S.
military shoots down three UFOs, one of them being the Chinese balloon, or whatever the other ones were. But, you know, the public paid attention for what, two, three days? And then it's like, hey, when's that new Barbie movie coming out? You know, just move right along from it.
Yeah, that's that news cycle. It's pretty wild. But it's also, again, you can only hear about UFOs, for so, I mean, and I'm a nut, obviously.
I'm obviously a UFO nut. You're,
we're friends here. Yeah.
I could only hear about it for so long before I'm going, I need something. I need to see something. Show me some metal. Show me some hardware. Show me a fucking frozen being.
Something.
It just,
I mean, UFO fatigue, bro.
Yeah, yeah, it is UFO fatigue.
I got it too.
I hear it all the time. I hear it all the time. I mean, when, you know, don't tell me anymore. I don't want to hear about any whistleblowers or hearings until you show me the flying saucer and the dead alien bodies.
Yeah. Yeah.
We get that all the time.
Of course. We got to keep going.
Of course, we do have to keep going. Well, I mean, you guys, I mean, George, when did you first break the Lazar story? Was that, was that 89??
89..
And when you broke that story, was that your introduction to this world, or had you already had a curiosity?
I had done some stuff, starting in 87.. It was John Lear. John Lear had walked in the station with a stack of documents. He had helped us break the story of this secret plane out in the Nevada desert that was invisible to radar. Stealth fighter.
And so he had some credibility with us and he plopped those documents on the desk of my managing editor and my buddy and mentor, Ned Day. Ned, this is your next big story. It's the biggest story in history. Here you go. Ned looks at a couple of pages, shoves the plow back across to Lear and said, this can't be true.
If it was true, I'd already know about it. And I was kind of cocky, like many of us are. And so before Lear left the newsroom, I said, let me take a look at that stuff. So he gave me all these documents. Most of it was stuff from the Freedom of Information Act.
You know, these agencies, like the FBI and CIA before FOIA was the law of the land would deny that they ever did any studies that had any interest whatsoever in UFOs. Then, when that was signed into law in the mid-70s, they had to release thousands and thousands of pages that showed they'd been lying through their teeth, that they had been studying it. All these pages of information, of studies and experts and panels and all kinds of things like that. So Lear gave me that stuff, and that's how I got hooked. is the paper trail that established that our military, our intelligence agencies, were telling the public one thing, don't worry your pretty little heads, pay attention, move along, nothing to see here.
But behind the scenes, they took it very seriously. They were very concerned about where these things were from and how this technology works, and the fact that they can't do anything about it. So that's how I got hooked in 87.. I started reading about it and then meeting Lazar in 89, almost by chance and realized, all right, look, I'm going to report on this. I've got to really dig in and learn everything I can.
And I was cocky enough to think, well, give me six months, I'll have this whole thing figured out. That was 36 years ago.
Wow. It's got to be crazy to see it now in front of Congress.
I had a moment. I did. I did. I had a moment. I just kind of had to bow my head there when it came over me.
after all this time, seeing what was happening, unfolding in front of me. I just never thought I would see it. And what was really amazing is the partisan divide was gone. suddenly. There is an issue that the two sides, far left, far right, can agree on.
There's AOC and Jamie Raskin on one side of the room, and there is Tim Burchett and Matt Gates on the other. And they're all asking questions. And it's not just questions prepared by staff. They're doing follow-ups. They're into it.
They're into it. It was amazing. It was just absolutely amazing to see it.
Have you heard any speculation as to why they want to hide the information? Have you heard anyone that says that? this is why?
Yes. So, to the best of my knowledge, directly to me so many times that I can't count is strategic surprise that we have to be ahead on this. That we know that Russia has a UFO exploitation program, reverse engineering. We know China has one. Like, if these were theirs, they wouldn't be having these huge programs that they've actually announced and bragged about in China.
So, it's strategic surprise. Whatever we can derive from these technologies, we know that it can be weaponized. We know that it is so powerful. Just by the propulsion systems alone, how they move, they suspect it's gravitational. Just like Lazar said, the top dogs that we know that have worked on this problem set for our government believe, by observation, that these propulsion technologies are gravitationally based.
With that said, it goes back to Lazar. We can't produce gravity. There it was, he said. Something that produces gravity. So, if that is true, then they know that just even the laser weaponry technology that a colleague of mine and George actually did study for our government, I don't know how far I can go on that one, but that's true.
The people are looking at unknown technologies and exploiting them for laser technology. That is fact. Factual stuff. He'll tell you more about it later. So, if we get left in the dust, everybody believes we're ahead right now.
In the secret little reverse engineering...
Why do they believe we're ahead?
Well, maybe it's hubris. I hope we're ahead. Everybody that I know and everybody that George knows believes that right now we are still ahead on these reverse engineering programs. So, let's just couch this. Let's say, let's believe it for a second.
We're reverse engineering UFOs. It has been conveyed to us in the most direct sense that we believe we are ahead right now. But the way China works, they could quickly get a quick advantage because they don't have the same restrictions that we have. They can control every piece of that program, no questions asked. We can't quite do that.
So, there's a fear that we're going to be left in the dust at some point and we'll have what they call strategic surprise. So, that is a good reason that I understand that people want to keep this shit under wraps right now. I don't believe that. if people, if they said, look, you've been seeing them all through human history. We're now capturing them on multitudes of corroborative visual types of evidence, from thermal to radar.
That's the big deal about what George and I released about the 2019 swarms. It's corroborative visual evidence, right? Now that we have all these sensors that are so cool, just tell people whatever, we're not alone. Whoever these are from, maybe we don't know. I don't know that that's going to go over so well.
But, I feel like we should tell people that if we find out it to be true.
most of the reason why they're withholding the information is not worried about the collapse of society. It's worried about having control of this technology.
I believe so.
There's no way you can separate national security issues from this. The last time I was here, Joe, we talked about nuclear incidents where UFOs appear over nuclear missile facilities, missile bases. They disable those missiles. That's happened in our country. It's happened in Russia.
I don't know if it's happened in China, but it's real. You could neutralize the entire nuclear arsenal with one of these machines. Now, that's real national security. It's so interesting that our government dismisses Project Blue Book because there's no threat to national security and yet, it clearly has national security implications if they can control our nuclear weapons. The friends of mine, as far up the food chain as I've gone, have said this, you can't tell your friends without telling your enemies.
You can't tell part of this story, because no one would ever be satisfied with part of it. You can't be half-way pregnant.
It's national security and I can get with that. I get that. I understand that explanation. There's just a step further that I'm not understanding yet. But I understand the national security.
What do you mean by a step further?
Like what we were talking about before. What is it that's so devastating? Because we get to that point with people sometimes. What is it that's so devastating? They're okay with us reporting on stuff as friends.
They're like, I'm not going to inhibit you in any way.
George and I are in a weird position. So, of course, people are always trying to trick us. All the time. Every day. Like, major, good tricks.
They would love us to fuck up.
Like CGI video? Sure.
Or like, you know how you send me stuff. sometimes? I'm trying to think about it. So, imagine that on a much deeper level. Like trusted people that come to you with stuff and you just know it's a fucking trap.
Right? So, I've been in that position numerous times. Now, check this out. I think it's cool to say we have totally been warned, man, that as journalists, we are doing what is good for the public so we can obtain and release things like the bad news of the Baghdad phantom, the Mosul orb, like a bunch of these. So, people leak stuff to me and George.
And as journalists, we have to look at it and be like, does this endanger national security? Because these are from military platforms. So, if it does, you know, we do our best with. like lawyers and everybody. We try to make sure we don't fuck up.
Right? And everybody knows we're patriots. We're cool. Right? But he and I have been told.
numerous times. the biggest worry they have is a foreign intelligence agency getting their hands on some of the weird madness that comes our way that we haven't been able to vet yet or to make sure for national security that it's okay. So, people are cool with us as journalists in America reporting for the good of our country. But there is a real worry that other agencies outside of the U.S. might get some things that we haven't vetted yet properly.
Did I explain that okay?
Yeah, I'll just add this is that we were told earlier this year, and in fact the Department of Defense spokesperson announced, that there is a Department of Justice investigation into two of the images that we made public this year. That's kind of unsettling when you realize that there's a criminal investigation to figure out. Not necessarily us. Yeah. At least how did it get into our hands?
And what was this image?
Well, there's a number. I mean, so, in 2019, there was a swarm of UFOs over 10 Navy warships. George and I.
Those are the pyramids?
So, whatever shape they were, I don't even care. Check this out. This is the bigger point. In 2019, this thing happened. George and I obtained and released footage.
That footage was radar footage, thermal footage, infrared footage, and deck camera, like normal video footage. People were missing the point. It's the first time in history that you have military footage on four different types of platforms or four different types of optics. Corroborative visual evidence that go with the stories. It's like, David, Commander Fraber, if he told you he saw the tic-tac, that's one thing.
But you also got a video from Commander Chad Underwood because he went up and filmed it. What we provided was four types of corroborative visual evidence over a warning area in a training zone, which we should talk about. So, that type of. now we have so much evidence to that in 2019, that swarm. So, imagine if you're the DOD and George and I say, by the way, we're running a story and here's some footage.
Do you want to comment on it? And they're like, we didn't have some of this footage. I'm like, what? Like, how did you not have your own footage? So, that's already put us in a weird position with the Pentagon and the DOD.
They didn't, how do reporters get more information than they have on their own?
Do they demand your sources?
They can't do that. They would never do that. This is journalism in America. Come at me with that.
They'd like to know. They'd certainly like to know.
But that is a good job. Like, just to be clear for everybody, that's an important job is to plug leaks. So, if somebody's going out with national security things and selling them to Russia or to China, oh, fuck, yeah. So, they got a really important job. I wish them well on their job, but as journalists in America, we can report on this stuff and as long as we don't hurt national security, we can report on this.
Can you tell everybody the basics of that one particular sighting?
Yes. Happy to.
Cool? Start with the Omaha.
Okay. Do you want me to do it? Yeah, sure. Okay. So, 2019, there was a series of UFO swarms, over 10 Navy warships, but it was simultaneous.
So, at any given time around one ship, there's anywhere from 6 to 14, I'd say, of these, just say, unknown units, right? So, they appear like lights, but when you use thermal, you can see that they're kind of egg-shaped and minimum size is 14 feet. They weren't small, right? So, the question is from our military, so from the Omaha, the people fighting the ship, they're like, the heck. is this, right?
So, they start filming it, getting them on radar, all this stuff.
How were they behaving?
So, they weren't doing extreme movements, but I have been able to contact some of the helo pilots, right? And these things were self-luminous. They were illuminated and they actually were going into the water, if not out from the water. I know for sure they were going into the water. That's called transmedium.
We talked about that on one of our first podcasts together. So, all we know, let's just call them, we don't know who they're from, but there's these objects that are doing this ballet, around 10 Navy warships at one time and no one's taking claim for them. So, the people on the ships, their job is to fight the ship. Now, they didn't feel under threat. So, like on the USS Omaha, when they're seeing all this, there's this, they call the triangle of kinetic action, like when you would fire on it, right?
And it's like intent, opportunity, and capability. You have to fulfill that triangle to be like, oh, I'm going to blast that ship, right? The thing is, that triangle wasn't fully fulfilled because they didn't really know the intent, weren't sure of the capability or opportunity. So, they're kind of just observing these things. However, I do know on multiple ships, they applied what they call the Ghostbuster, which is like an electromagnetic package that can down drones, but these were not like DJI drones.
These were like big objects. So, they were moving in this like ballet, but remember, all the ships can communicate. So, now, all these years later, I have people on every level of those ships telling me, this is my experience, this is what we saw. They would go around. So, there's about 100 plus in the air at one time.
Whose were they? Our own government still says, we don't know whose they were. And I'll tell you this, that is not uncommon. This is the craziest thing over the last few years that George and I have gotten more testimony. There was a swarm off the coast of Japan in 2021, where the ship was 300 miles from any other ship or land mass, and these things were coming from the west.
And the only thing over there's way is Hawaii, right? No landing, no launch point. So, that also, by the way, I'm not going to say that one. There's swarms on the east coast as well. The point is, this happens more than people think.
Now, is that an increased frequency? Are we seeing an increased frequency in UFOs right now? Right? It's an interesting question, because what we do know is we have better technology to sense them, right? And to record them.
So, are we just seeing more of them because our sensors are better? Why always in training ranges? Well, that's bullshit. It's not always in training ranges. The reason you know about it is because of leaks and people bringing out footage.
We have the best sensors on these ships in the world. So, we just hear about it more on these training ranges.
USS Omaha. So, this thing was 14 feet round, spherical looking thing. that followed the ship for an hour. They watched it on thermal for an hour. They had it on radar.
There were several of them, up to 14 at a time. Now, what is big and round and travels? Now, these ships are 100 miles offshore at night off the west coast. And these things are floating right along with them. Is that a balloon?
There's no tail. There's no rotor. They don't know how the hell it was flying. There's no exhaust. They don't know how it was propelled at all.
And there was a bunch of them.
How fast were they moving?
It's not top speed. It wasn't matter. So, not super impressive. But they don't know. My buddy, somebody said to me, I'm going to really regret saying this to Jeremy.
It's like they just appeared. And he really hated saying that to me, because their job is to know where these came from, where they're going, where they launch, where they land. So, these things would come up. So, we know they would go into the water. The sentiment is they were coming also from the water.
But the thing is that they were unable to down them with these electromagnetic packages.
There were so many of them. They're that big. Where did they land? Where did they launch? And so, there was a fake news story put out by the New York Post.
They said, case solved. It was some New York Post 2019 Swarm says, case solved. There was a Chinese cargo ship called the Bass Strait. So, if you go to Wikipedia, even, they say it was the Bass Strait was landing and launching drones, right? Well, hold on.
The Bass Strait didn't have the deck capability to land or launch up to 100 plus of these 14 foot or larger objects. Additionally, the Bass Strait was in port in Long Beach while this activity was happening. And we know people that boarded the ship on behalf of our federal government to look to see if they were part of the fuckery, right? And then, we got somebody that came to me that says, my one job that night was to make sure that nothing was landing or launching off the Bass Strait. And he goes, I wish I could say that we did catch the culprits who ever launched all these.
And he says, I can't report that to you. We didn't. I watched it the whole time. But the New York Post put out this fake story that the mystery was solved.
Why do you think they did that?
It's a great question.
Just debunking. You know, typical debunking. It's Chinese drones 100 miles out to sea at night. You don't see where they were launched from. You don't see where they went to.
There's no ship out there that could be a launch platform for it. Where the hell did they come from? It's an easy way to just dismiss it. But the facts don't fit it.
What's the best footage that we can look at?
The total best footage of that event series? The one that's real famous is the black and white one. It's the USS Omaha thermal. I know I put it on.
Extraordinary Beliefs. Yeah, there we go.
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