#2114 - Zack Snyder

What's going on, man? How are you? I'm good. Welcome aboard. Thank you for being here.

No, thanks for having me. My pleasure. You made two of my all-time favorite movies. The Watchmen, which I fucking love, and 300.. Okay, awesome.

I have like a top 20 list. I've never like formally put together a top 20 list, but those are in there. Oh, that's cool. First of all, I appreciate that, because, you know, 300 was a complete labor of love and insane. Like, you know, 300 was...

I was a Frank Miller fan for a long time, right? And I thought I would do another... I thought I would do Dark Knight Returns, frankly. That was the movie I wanted. I still want to do it.

I always tell everyone, like, Dark Knight Returns. If I could do Dark Knight Returns, I'd be done with comic book movies. Well, because, like, if you've done Watchmen... Oh, sorry, I'm banging the mic. If you do Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns, like, for me, your legacy is set.

So, like, Batman v Superman literally steals a lot of Dark Knight Returns. I'm not going to say it didn't. It did. But it's still not Dark Knight Returns, so I think that's still out there.

I always... You know, for a long time, I had that... I had 300, like, on my coffee table at my house when I was making TV commercials, you know, and I'd have my friends over. I'd be like, I'm going to make this one day. It's going to look exactly like this comic book.

And they'd be like, yeah, yeah, sure it is. And, yeah, I was having a general meeting with Gianni Nunnari, who was one of the producers, and he was asking me about what I like, and he had that graphic novel in his office, like, on his table, and I went, well, okay, you know what? If I could do anything, that book right there, I would make that. And he goes, well, what do you mean? How would you make it?

And I literally just opened it up, and I go, we'd make... we'd film this. We'd film these pictures. It would look like this. And he goes, okay, that's cool.

Like, so you're saying you would just shoot the movie, and it would look like this graphic novel. I go, that's what I'm saying. And I think... and that's what... but at the time, we couldn't sell it.

We tried. We went around town with it. I literally... we went to all the studios.

You know, they were all kind of like, yeah, sword and sandals. Wasn't it the same time that Troy was being made? It was exactly the same time as Troy, and when we went to Warner Brothers originally with it, they literally were like, we have Troy. So why would we want this? We have Brad Pitt.

Like, literally, Brad Pitt is in our movie. What do you... I go, we're going to do something crazy. We're not even going to shoot it outside. And they were like, what?

Okay, you're nuts. And I go, yeah, we're not going to go for one shot outside. We ended up going for one shot outside for this, when the Persian messengers are coming, that super high speed shot where the horses are kind of coming over the hill. We shot that outside because we just couldn't get the horses going fast enough. It's the shot right before this, I think.

Oh, no, it's this one. That's it. It's that shot. So that shot was the horses. That was a high speed shot.

we did with Photosonics outside, but that was it. That's like the only shot outside. Everything else is on stage. Because you couldn't get the horses to run fast enough inside. Because we couldn't get the horses fast enough inside, yeah.

And it was too expensive. That was a low budget movie, you know, and we couldn't get... 300 was a low budget movie? Yeah, because we, I mean, we shot it all on stage, 60 days. Like, that's like.

why there's no director's cut of 300, is because every frame of film we shot is in the... You shot that movie in 60 days? 60 days, yeah. Wow. It was crazy, yeah.

That's insane. It was, we were just, it almost killed us, but it was fun. But yeah, so when we took it to Warner Brothers, they were like, you know, finally, well, what happened was I did Dawn of the Dead, and then from Dawn of the Dead,

I was supposed to do I Am Legend, right? And I Am Legend was this movie that was at Warner Brothers that they were like, what do you think? And then for some, there was some kind of crazy mix-up, and they ended up giving that movie to someone else. And then I think they felt bad or whatever, and they said, well, what do you want to do? And I said, well, I really still want to do 300..

And so we shot that test shot. I think it was on the DVD. There's a test shot. we did, and they said, okay, if you can make the movie look like that, go, do it. Was that one of the first movies that was ever shot in front of a green screen?

Like, basically most of the movie, except that one scene? Sorry. Yeah, I don't think it was like, look, green screen. photography was like a well-known way to make a movie, visual effects and all that. A whole movie?

Yeah, I don't know about a whole movie. That was weird. I always say, like, they go like, well, what innovations? Like, what? And I always go like, it's basically the same technology that the weatherman uses, you know, like when he stands in front of the green screen and says, like, oh, the front's coming in from the north.

You know, it's literally, yeah, it's literally the same technology, you know, because, look, easily, you could put, like, the weather behind that guy right there and it would be the same.

That's Eli. That's my son. Oh, wow. He's now making movies. He was the second unit director on Rebel Moon.

Oh, that's so cool. He also plays the young Rorschach in Watchmen. In Watchmen, really? Yeah. Wow.

Like the baby Rorschach, yeah. Because, like, you, put your kid in the movie and I always was like, oh, let's have Eli do that, because it's easier, you know. Like, he has to, like, beat the other kid up. Just Eli's better. because, like, I don't have to talk to, like, some, you know, other.

Because, like, actually, there's a scene in Watchmen, you know, where he bites the kid's face and he pulls the flesh off the face. And I go, you know what? Let's just get E to do it, because then I could just be like, okay, E, bite this. Now, pull it, like, rip it off. The only troubling part of that is that there was a scene that we did in that movie where the, you know, because Rorschach's mom was a prostitute, right?

So there's that scene where Rorschach's mom, in the flashbacks, like, I should have had that abortion, right? And she slaps him in the face, right? Because he hears, mom, is he hurting you? Like, because she's having sex with some John in there. And then she opens the door and she's like, you know, he's like, is he hurting you?

I should have had that abortion and slapped him. And I had wanted the mother to be topless in that scene. And they were like, nah, like, you can't have. And it was cool because his mother was visiting set that day and his mom was there and she was like, oh, you're putting our son in a movie? Like, we weren't together at the time, his mom and I, but we're really close friends.

But she was an actress and I said, and they went, the only way that the woman can be topless is if it was actually his mom. And I was like, oh, I go, Denise. And she was like, no chance.

Imagine asking your ex-wife to play a terrible prostitute who slaps their son and says, I wish I had an abortion. Holy shit. I go, come on. It's for the drama. It's not like.

Oh my God. She was like, you were insane. I was like, come on. It would have been awesome. But it's at least slightly insane.

But that would be the only way to do it. Yeah. Could you CGI boobs on her? Yeah. That's cool.

At the time, probably. Now, I think we could. Now, I think we could have. Yeah. I think we could have.

If I, if I'd wanted to do it now, I think that's how you would do it. You do it like with like some sort of chest rig, and they would paint them out and then redo the boobs. That'd be, that's a good idea. Actually. How much.

I'll go back in. How much of any CGI was used on their bodies in 300?? Zero CGI on the body. Really? Really.

We didn't have the money. Honestly. So many people talk, so much shit. I swear to God. I'm like, you know, you get, you did Mark Twight on this show.

And then Mark will tell you, uh, you know, Mark is Mark. Train the guys. Mark's like this. Amazing. He's like, uh, he, I, I've known Mark for years and he, he's an incredible Alpine climber.

He's like this. He's just like this insane. He can shoot. He can fucking, he could do anything that anyone can do. And like, when I asked him to train the guys, he's like, this sounds like Hollywood bullshit.

Like train actors for a movie. Like they're all fakers. They're all liars. And I was like, look, you, you will make them honest. And so he's like, all right.

So he started training everybody. Yeah. There's Mark right there. And, um, the, his gym was called Jim Jones, right? Like, just as an example of like how hard he is.

Um, but yeah. And so, like, you know, he had trained all these seals and, you know, basically it was basically the same thing that he was doing with the seals he did with these actors. And, uh, so a prerequisite had, you can imagine it had to be in some form of shape, some shape, some teeny bit of shape. A couple of guys came to us that were, you know, pure actors. Um, but 90%, you know, had, um, had some, had some shape.

How much time did you have to work with them? I'm trying to remember. Normally, what I like is at least five weeks. I like five weeks and I'll take more if you'll give it to me. Sure.

For a film. But I mean, to prepare physically. I'm talking about before the film starts. At two months or three months. I like before the film starts of training.

That's enough time to get them into that. It's not. It never is. These guys trained doubly as hard and they knew a lot of them were athletes anyway. So they came in with like, and Jerry had had more time.

Um, and Jerry trained with his own guy. Jerry didn't train with Mark. Uh, but like, yeah. So, you know, it depends. Like, you know, when Henry Cavill, um, Mark trained Henry for, um, for Superman.

And, uh, that was a very, that was a real, um, that was longer. I think that was three months or four months. Um, but yeah, it's not, it's never enough time, because you just can't get it. Right. Like actors, you know, they just, ideally, you know, you'd have, you know, half a year, six months would be perfect.

Really? At least. Yeah. I mean, just to get you, you know,

Visibly, you know, I always say the one thing is like, I always say the one thing about, um, movies is that, and the thing about Mark that I love was that he, he went to psychological war with the actors in the best possible way. You know, like he, what he was looking for, he would always say, I'm going to put you in your pain cave. And you're going to find out a lot about yourself when you're in there. Right. And then when you come out of the workout, you know, you're going to, you're going to grow, you know, I'm going to grow you.

Here. And, uh, some people, some people just don't, they don't like that, you know, especially people who haven't like, you know, fitness isn't like a lifestyle that they've chosen, you know? No, that's a journey that you have to be really dedicated to go down. If you're just a kind of a casual and someone comes along and says, I want to put you in the pain cave. Like, I'm not interested in that.

I think it works with actors because he makes it part of the crucible of the performance, you know? And I think if you can connect it to the performance, it makes the training mean something. You know, I was always, I've always been like a sort of bodybuilding fan, like in the eighties, I trained with this guy, um, in the eighties, who was just like a teacher that lived, you know, this guy, Jim Martin, who lived in Greenwich, Connecticut, where I grew up. He was a teacher at this school called Greenwich country day, which was near the boarding school that I went to. And I was like, you know, everyone expected me to be like, uh, I, I played soccer.

I was like an athlete. It was a really, but then I sort of got into like weight training. I was like, that's what I want to do. Everyone thought it was insane. But, like, you know, and I think it was, it was my meeting, Jim, and Jim being like, cause.

Jim had this in the basement of Greenwich country day, there was like this weirdo, Jim, and like, you know, Chris Dickerson and like, you know, Mike Katz, all these like crazy eighties bodybuilders would show up and train with them. And it was like this, weird, I'd be like, this is awesome. And like, we went to the Olympia, like he took us to the Olympia in New York city. I don't know what year was that? Like 82 or three, I forget what year, but anyway, it was just really cool.

And I was just in this. And then, of course, I was like, you know, Schwarzenegger, I read his like book education of a bodybuilder, you know, it's a weirdo book. Did you get involved in bodybuilding yourself? I mean, I trained with Jim, cause I thought like, okay, yeah, maybe I'll be a bodybuilder one day. That'd be cool.

Like, you know, but of course, like. I was also painting and I, I remember when I, when I was a senior in high school, after I graduated, I went to London for a year to art school to paint. And I lost like 40 pounds of muscle in that, in that year. Just like literally I was in, like the best shape of my life, went to England to be a painter and like literally just ate baked beans on toast for a year and like starved to death. But I was like, this is amazing.

You know, like. I'm an artist, you know, but it was, it was definitely, it definitely put a, put a, but I always had the like, but I always had that aesthetic, you know, bug in my head. And now I have my trainer. now is this guy, Alessandro. He trained everyone for rebel moon.

And he's like this, he's like six, in his early sixties, Italian was a bodybuilder, was a power lifter, became a bodybuilder. And he's like, you know, he's just like this, he's a hard Italian, no bullshit. Like, you know, it was cool because during the, during the training for rebel moon, one of the actors was like, I have an idea for a workout. Do you want to hear it? He's like, I have an idea for a movie.

Stay in your lane. Exactly. He's like, or like the guys at the gym, like, cause, you know, used to like judge bodybuilding competitions and you know, has his pro card and everything was like a real bodybuilder. And they'd say like, Hey, can you come and look at me? You know, I have a contest coming up in the bathroom.

And he did go in there and the guy take his shirt off. And he'd be like, how long till the competition? I got two months till the competition. And I was trying to be like, I think next year for you is going to be better. You know, it's like, Oh no.

And he has no problem saying, you know, like, I think I need to lose like 40 pounds, more, like 80..

Jesus. He's like, he's hard, but he's, but he's awesome. He's like, no bullshit. Like he's, I, I, I think he's like, you know, he trained the guys for old moon and he's like a pure aesthetic trainer, like pure aesthetic, you know, he's just going for a look, he's seen everything, you know, and he just like, okay, you know, your abs could be sharper, you know? Yeah.

That's a weird thing. Yeah. It's like a whole thing. You know, it's like, just like, it is a whole thing. Yeah.

I had Ronnie Coleman on. Oh yeah. Exactly. You know, Ronnie Coleman, at one point in time, was the freak of all freaks. Oh, he is hands down.

Like no one's ever going to be better. Like he's the freak of all freaks. Yeah. Like it. just like the way his muscles attach is like crazy.

Like you can't, well, he was probably one of the strongest bodybuilders ever. Unbelievable. And that's part of the, the reason why he looked. the way he looked. He didn't look just big.

He looked super powerful. Well also, the thing about Ronnie Coleman, like, you know, he, you see, like guys that are just incredibly swole, where they can't, like they're muscle bound, like they can't, and he could like always, just like, he could, just like touch his like back of his head. Look at him back in his prime, dude. Unbelievable. Look at that picture.

That's so insane. Yeah.

Alessandro was in a competition with him, night of the champions, I think in San Francisco. And he said, like, he goes, I come from Italy. I like, I I'm in my first competition. I like pull a card and I'm like, realize, like I'm next to Ronnie Coleman and me. I'm like, he's like, great.

This is fucking perfect. And he goes like the guy, you know, like how bodybuilders like the whole thing is about your skin being super thin. So everything like shows, he goes, he goes, I saw him backstage. And I thought, you know what? Skin's like, not there.

It's not going to happen. He goes, but then, like, you know, he like so much muscle, he's like pulls and it's just like, he's like, Oh, my God, like where, how is it possible that the skin just can't, the muscles so thick, just like pushes, all the stretches. You see, all the striations and everything that you do with him, just relaxing like a backstage. You thought, ah, I, you know, I'm more ripped than him. But then, like, he's like, no way.

It's such a weird sport, because they're literally on death's door. Oh, literally. They dehydrate themselves to the point where they have kidney failure. Almost. Yeah.

The only thing that's the thing that we can all learn from the bodybuilders is like, I think that just now, in sort of everything that's happening, like with longevity and like all this, like the bodybuilders will do stuff to their bodies that nobody else would dare do. They'll do dosages that no one will do. And so, like, it's cool to, to say, like, okay, if you want to know what, quadruple the dose of anything does, just ask those guys, they'll tell you. Because I think like, you'd be like, okay, you could, this is the most you could take, and then it's toxic. Oh, cool.

I'll take triple that and see what happens. You know? Cause they just, they're all searching for, like the magic bullet. It's kind of amazing how few of them have died. Well, and also they do die all the time.

So it's not. They do die, but it's not like you'd expect. it kills all of them. I think every single one of them. Like Dorian Yates, is in great shape.

Yeah. And how can you have been on the edge of it for so long? Yeah. How could you? Yeah.

Well, the body's incredible. That's what you learned. He's really suffered, unfortunately, Ronnie, but I think he suffered from surgery. Yeah. I think the surgery got him.

You know, there's so many guys who get back surgery and back then, stem cells weren't available and people weren't aware that there's other ways to fix your back. The doctors just want to go in there and start fusing discs and scares the shit out of me. Everybody that I know that's had that done, has had real problems afterwards. It puts extra pressure on the above and below discs as well, because it's an unnatural sort of unit. now, instead of having three pieces, you now have one.

It's crazy. It can be a real problem. It can be a real problem. Yeah. And I think that healing, the science behind healing, is, you know, it's changing so much.

Leaps and bounds. Leaps and bounds. And I think that really that's where the future is. In my opinion, like how we learn to heal is really how we learn to like really stay, you know, active and like getting stuff done for longer, because, like, you know, recovery is the whole thing, you know, of 100% recoveries and also being cognizant of what your little issues are and not letting them get chronic. When I was young, I was just too much of a meathead.

Ignore it. Work through pain. And also, when you're doing jujitsu, you're always in pain. So I was just like just work through the pain, but then I started developing some like real chronic problems. And it wasn't until I started doing stem cells and then starting to understand like you can't, you can, but it's not wise to just go and only do jujitsu.

You really should be doing maintenance, weightlifting that's designed to strengthen your joints. And so I really started doing that, and that made a giant difference too. And instead of just thinking of it as a workout, it's always like, okay, is your car ready to get on the track? No, it's not. You need to change your tires.

No, it's not. Your suspension's off. No, it's not. You need more gas, whatever the fuck it is. Treat your body like that.

Don't just say, I'm fucking tough. I'm going to show up with the flu and I'm going to go seven rounds. No, don't do that. That's stupid. That's stupid.

Every time I've ever done that, it's set me way back. It's never helped me. Never one time that I was like pushed through the pain. Has it ever been good? Not a single fucking time.

So now, at 56, now I'm smart enough to go, okay, don't do chin-ups. You're getting tendonitis in your left elbow. Stop. You know where this goes. It's right here.

You get at the same spot every time. Every time. Let's start doing some wrist curls. Let's start doing, let's work the legs. Let's do a bunch of other shit.

Let's do heavy bag rounds. Stop. Stop doing the chin-ups. You can do a pull down too, by the way. It's fine.

Yeah. There's different stuff you could do that doesn't pull on that very specific tendon, but you know, overuse, injuries, those kinds of things. So when you're doing a film like 300 and you're getting these guys prepped for this, are you telling them what to eat? Are you a nutritionist? It's awesome.

If I ever put you in a movie, the cool thing is you show up, you work out, they hand you food, they like massage you. It's like the greatest. Oh, that's great. They treat them like pro athletes. Yeah, like pro athletes.

You're just a pro athlete. And you're like in training camp, you know? Dude, I just watched 300 again this summer because my family and I went to Greece. Oh, cool. So we went, let's watch 300..

And my 13-year-old had never seen 300 before. She was like, holy shit. I was like, yeah, that's a fucking movie. We were just in Greece this summer too, and it was cool, because we were in Athens and we were walking up to the Parthenon, and I noticed all the gift shops, they have Spartan shit in them. And I said to the guy, I go, I'm sorry about that.

And she goes, what are you talking about?

And I go, I apologize for all this Spartan stuff in here. And she goes, yeah, it's a fucking movie 300..

Did she know? you made it?

And I said, I go, yeah, that's why I said, I'm sorry. I made that movie. And she goes, what do you mean? you made it? And I was like, yeah.

That's my movie. That's my movie. And she goes, no. And I go, yeah. And then she was like, that's awesome.

Now she likes you. Yeah, it was cool. It was a cool swing. Well, it's a fucking awesome movie. If you don't like 300, you can go eat shit.

If anybody didn't enjoy that, what do you, hate fun? Well, the thing is like, also, I met a lot of like, a lot of seals, a lot of like first responders, as you can imagine, really, really, you know, I've seen a lot of Spartan tattoos, you know, because of that, you know, and I'm, and I'm proud that, you know, that they find some sort of like inspiration. Dude, Leonidas is what every man wants to be. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's a, it is.

He was perfect. He, he, he knew where, like, look, you know, he knew where his, he knew who to look to, to, to find out whether to burn the whole thing down. Yeah. And, you know, she gave him the okay. And it was also, the movie was brutally representative of all of both.

It was, it was both like mythical and beautiful and magical, but also very tied into the ethics of the Spartans and how absolutely brutal their world was and how they just accepted things in a way that just like, wow. Yeah. That's the thing that people are always like, you know, with me. I mean, they ask me, like, what about the morality of the movie? What do you think of it?

And I go like, Sparta is also another planet. Like, if you, like, we can't, we would not make it. Right. Like to say like, oh yeah, I'm cool. Like with the Spartans.

I mean, they would have chucked me off the cliff like day one. You know, it's not like a, it's hard for us to imagine. Like you want to like say, yeah, I'm, I'm with the Spartans in this, but like, you know, they, they were, they were brutal people. From the jump. They were a tool.

They were a tool. Yes. Like, we have democracy. maybe because they existed, but they weren't necessarily democratic. They didn't, there was no voting on whether or not we would like go in and die.

Like. that was just like what they wanted. You know, that was in their life, you know, in their basic genetic makeup or in their philosophy. Philosophical makeup was like, okay, a beautiful death. If I can get one of those, I'm good.

Yeah, I'm good. And I won't give it to you. You got to take it. Right. But yeah, that's, that, that, that's a, I love that.

Like Fassbender, when he's like looking down and he says that whole thing about like, you know, what's awesome is that, with all the world's armies, you know, there's gotta be one guy down that fucking place that can kill me and do it right. You know? And they're like, are you serious? Like, that's what's turning you on. You're excited about the fact that the guy that kills me might be down there.

Like that's, that's also, I think, when we look at things like that and we put ourselves in the mindset of someone who lives so many years ago, like that, there's this, there's this understanding that human beings are capable of fitting into a bunch of different bizarre groups, a bunch of different strange cultures can rise. And when you have a particularly barbaric time in history, and you have this group of people in Athens that are literally changing the world through democracy and through the Ilyusinian mysteries and all this shit that they were doing, where people are traveling from all over the globe to come to this one spot. And then you got these fucking savages. These people are the savages of savages. The Spartans.

Yeah. They're like, if you think about it, if someone says like, what kind of a warrior would you want to be? Right. If you're a little kid, I want to be a Spartan. Yeah, of course.

That's why all these sports teams have Spartans as their like mascots. Yeah. And to imagine that there was a group of people that existed, a culture that existed, that was completely warlike and had these tenants that were just unbendable. Yeah. And from the time you were a child, they tested you.

Yeah, that's it. And if you, if you fucked up, if you failed, if you fell apart, if you quit, you were chucked out. Yeah. The cryptair, like they, they, you know, the, the whole thing, like where they, they would send you like around seven, and then you'd go in the Agogi, you'd go like into the wilderness. And you're basically living among other kids that were between like seven and 13..

And you just were like wild. And they, and the, and the, the, the sort of elite of those groups were called the cryptair. And the cryptair would come down and just kill helots whenever they wanted. Like they were encouraged. The helots were that slave, the slave class, that the, that the Spartans sort of maintained Spartan society.

And these guys, these kids, imagine, like if you lived, you know, and like in the hills, you knew, there was just like this 13 year old gang of 13 year olds that were going to just come down and murder you at any moment. And they were encouraged to murder you. And they were encouraged to do it because they like, and also the helots were fine. If the helots killed them, that was fine, because that meant they, that they weren't good enough anyway. And then they would have this, like, they did this ritual with this like table of cheese where, like all these Spartan warriors would stand around the table and all the 13 year olds who were ready to like transitioned into becoming true Spartans, you'd have to like try and get and pull a piece of cheese off this stone table and the, and the Spartan warriors who guarded the table could do anything to stop you.

And it was just like just beating the crap out of these 13 year olds. And finally, like, you know, if you got it, then you were, you were given to a Spartan soldier who raised you. And basically the idea was that you, he was your lover. He was your teacher. He was everything to you, because the Spartans believed that, you know, really.

they believed that you, you, you, would die for your, your brother. If you were also lovers, you know, they thought, they thought that like, if you were confused about why we're fighting. fight for that guy, who's not only your best buddy, but like, there's like a story, I guess, where they were like the Spartan, when the Persians first came, they sent a scout over and that, and they looked down at the Spartans right the night before the big battle. And he goes, he went back and he goes, they were all like having sex with each other. It was like a weird, like, they're like, it's we're, we're going to be good.

And there was this, one of the Spartans Kings was the old Spartan King was now working with the Persians and said like, Oh no, we're fucked. They're saying goodbye to each other. Do you know, like, do you know what that means? Like, we're completely screwed. Like, they're going to, like, we're going to get murdered tomorrow.

You know, like, and, and they were like, you're nuts. You don't know what you're talking about. Like, they're a bunch of softies like, let's go, get them. What if that's the key to the, to being the, the absolute greatest army? You have to be gay.

You have to be gay. There's precedent. So I don't know. There is precedent. Yeah.

Right. Like. imagine if that was applied today. Yeah. It could be amazing.

Yeah. But we'll, that would be a real problem. We'll see. We'll see. The family structure.

We'll see what they say. Yeah. Well, by the way, in the end, the Spartans had a real problem because they couldn't, we talk, there's this really crazy thing, like where, on their wedding night, they would have to shave the head of your bride and dress her like a man. And she would fight you because there was no. That was the only way they got hard.

That was the only way they could get it. Yeah. Get her aroused. Oh my God. Unless they got like, unless they got like a bloody lift, you know, they were like, not, it wasn't going to happen.

That's so insane. Isn't that crazy? That's so insane. So, like, you can imagine that it was hard to like, keep the, you know, generate enough offspring, you know, with that, like you had an awesome army. Right.

They were fucking the best, but, like you, you're, as far as your procreation was going, it wasn't. God, imagine being a woman back then too. Well, they had to run the whole show because, basically, the guys were just training. So they, all the commerce and like the deals they were making to like, you know, okay, we're going to make a trade deal with this. That was all done by the women because, like the guys were like, no, we're got, we got to fucking work out.

It's kind of awesome in some ways. It's kind of awesome, but it's kind of crazy. and it's kind of crazy that it requires you to be gay, to be the greatest army, because that's the one element. How much do you love this person beside you? Yeah.

You got to love them. Yeah. I mean, imagine the difference between you being with some random stranger on the street and a bunch of thugs attack the random stranger, how you would treat it versus if they attack your wife. Yeah. Yeah.

Do anything. It's different. It's totally different. I did that in rebel moon. There's a bit where I put that.

There's a part where, um, Sophia's character says like that, they basically say they encouraged me to find a lover in the military academy, because when the politics of war became too abstract, like, okay, take that beach, or like climb that mountain. a lot of times, you know, soldiers like what, why, like there's no, why, but like if you're, but if you have a lover, who's next to you, who's your life? and if they get killed or they're in danger, you're, you get, you know, you're going to be back on it. You're back on it. Yeah.

And I think that it's an interesting, we don't, of course, in our modern society, we don't play with that aspect of, you know, in war, we try not to, anyway, we seem not to, but you know, like with using the relationship to create a bond. So it's an interesting, I mean, like, you know, there's camaraderie, brotherhood, of course, but they've replaced that aspect of it with technology. Yeah. A little bit. Yeah.

Which is interesting. And maybe that's, maybe that's good, but maybe it is good. But I mean, I could imagine a world in the future where things go totally sideways, where we go back to that. Yeah, absolutely. We'll make a movie about it.

I mean, that's, that is a possible future dystopian movie. Yeah. A new Spartans, the Spartans of the, you know, 2059.. Well, as soon as, like, you know, what, what is that Einstein thing? You know, if World War III is fought with nuclear weapons, World War IV be fought with rocks, sticks in rocks, you know?

So it's like a. Yeah. Well, if it's world war, that does it, it's probably going to wipe out the whole race. But if it's something else there, there could be a, like. everyone thinks of dystopia as being something man created, which is real, possible, but it's also possible.

we get hit by an asteroid. Oh yeah, absolutely. That's more possible. I think that's, that's more likely. I think, I think we could fuck up and nuke each other, but it's probably not going to happen because people have been really good about it since 1947..

It's nice. Thank you. Good work. I guess. Good work.

But there's a, there's a giant difference between things that you can control and things you can't control it through diplomacy and people aging out. It's possible that we could never have a nuclear war. It's not possible. We're not going to get hit. Oh yeah, I know.

That's why I mean, like, I, I'm very, I very much encourage any NASA programs that are, you know, with their, they got their telescopes pointed into the stars. They're like, oh, here comes one. Let's see if we can go. get it. You know, nudge it, nudge it.

They're close. They're close to being able to do that. Neil deGrasse Tyson said they're about a decade away from being able to deflect asteroids. Yeah, that'll be a big deal. Yeah.

But the hope is in that decade that we don't, we don't get it. We don't miss one, because some of them come in from behind the sun. Oh yeah, yeah. No, they're like, oh yeah, we don't. Yeah.

Yeah. That's not cool. Like, there's so much weirdness in space. anyway. There's solar flares that could take out our whole grid and kill all our communication systems.

And they just. And also the thing is like, we don't know, like, say you had, say we had one of those, like 300 years ago, which in cosmic time, it's not that long ago. It's nothing. It's nothing. And we didn't have the infrastructure to know that it would happen.

Like we were just a bunch of guys hanging out. So like, we were just like, whoa, that's a weird, like the Aurora Borealis is pretty strong today. Yeah. That's cool. But now we're like, oh shit, our computers are fried.

So it's like a whole different. Yeah. It's also. now. The stakes are different.

We have the ability to go and look at the data that they had from a couple of hundred years ago and say, it appears that there was an event and the event, if it happened today, we would be fucked. Right. And we did not prepare for this event when we were constructing all this equipment. Yeah. We didn't.

Well, because we, we, because also the equipment got built. It didn't get, it got built over time. It was like a slow, you know, this made this and this made that. And we relied on this. So now we may have this.

Yeah. We're like, we don't, we built like our house of cards, like pretty, pretty, pretty quickly too. And the foundation is the weakest part. It doesn't exist. I don't think there is a foundation.

Because it's all dependent upon the grid. I really don't think there is a foundation. Well, the foundation is what powers it. And it's all dependent upon a grid. Yeah.

And the grid's very vulnerable, physically vulnerable. It's vulnerable to cyber attacks. I like that also. We were like, we thought we were geniuses by putting all that online. Yeah.

Like, oh yeah, we'll make the grid automated. No, don't do that. It's much better. when there was just a guy throwing switches. Yeah, way better.

He's not gonna, you can't do anything to him. Just guard that guy. Yeah, guard that guy. Give him a lot of money. I love that expression in the cloud.

Bitch, where's this cloud? That cloud is in fucking Cleveland. What are you talking about? There's no cloud. The cloud is not cool.

That's such a lie. Stop calling it the cloud. That's a dirty lie. Oh, it's in the cloud. I can just go, get it.

How do you say that? Why don't you say it's in the stars? Why don't you just lie to me and say it's in heaven? Tell me it's in heaven. Say it died.

All my photos of my baby. We can resurrect it. Yeah, we can resurrect it. My family, my dog, they're all in heaven. Print everything.

I say, print everything. That's my philosophy. even the print everything thing, the real problem with us is all of our data is on hard drives. All of it. Yeah.

And there's just paper books, hard drives, and that's it. So if something big happens, everything's useless. And we start from scratch. Yeah. Paper books are still kind of work, but yeah, a lot of the modern, like innovations, aren't probably even in paper books.

A lot of them. Yeah. A lot of them. Well, it's funny because, like the movies, for instance, one of the things is I always archive a film print of all my movies. because the digital storage of movies, if you ask anybody in, even in the digital storage of movies, they don't know whether in 10 years, you'll be able to play a movie that you have now, like, whether you physically, or what, or how it degrades all those things.

They don't know. That's crazy. And so I'm like, I, that's why I make film prints. because I'm like, I know that like we keep it, that we keep the film prints in the, in the,

in this, you know, locker, and you can at least pry them out and, and always have it. But, like, I just think it's crazy that you, we don't know. We don't know. We don't know whether the movies will exist. It's a crazy thing.

Don't worry about it, Zach. It's in the cloud. It's no fucking cloud. Cheers. Cheers, brother.

Thanks for doing this, man. Yeah, I know. It's my pleasure. That's hilarious. It's in the cloud.

Why are you worried? Yeah, that's a dirty expression that they should, they should ban that. They love that expression, though. I know, but it's a dirty lie. There's no cloud, but it makes people feel safe, because it's like, it makes them feel good.

Cause it's like the cloud is so reliable and so like, and also a thing you don't need to worry about or understand. It's also beautiful. It's fluffy. It's in a blue sky. And all your info's safe in there.

Nothing can hurt it, except for everything. It's just horse shit. It's total horse shit. It's so crazy. It's on hard drives.

It's so crazy. And if you had to start from scratch, if, you know, imagine stumbling upon some ancient Egyptian hard drives and go, okay, where do we even begin? You can't play it. Yeah. What's, what is this?

You might be looking at it and you don't know. Yeah. Yeah. How is it encoded? Uh, what is the equipment I need to connect it to?

In order to, does it play out loud? Do I see it? What is this? Do I experience it in my head? It's like when you show your kid a, um, vinyl record, right?

Right. I'm showing my kids a vinyl record and they're like, this is incredible. How does it work? I'm like, well, the needle kind of bounces up and down on that, on those grooves. It makes sound.

It sounds like, sounds like a song. And they're like, that's how, that's an insane technology. I'm like, no, that's not insane technology. Your iPod or your fucking phone. That's insane technology.

That's, that's a thing you can't, that doesn't? even, you can't explain this to me. Okay. I can, I just explained that to you. I love the fact that I'm in my car and like, uh, like my daughter loves Melanie Martinez.

So she also, I have no idea what the song is. Tell me what the song is. And she'll tell me what the song is. And I could say, play Melanie Martinez, whatever the song is. And it just, it plays it.

Instantly, plays it. Unbelievable. Instantly. And it's coming through the speakers and it sounds amazing. There's all this sound.

That is incredible. It is incredible. It's bananas. Or you could say like, play Johnny Cash. Instantly.

Instantly. Instantly. Play Hurt. Yeah. Play Hurt right now.

Instantly. Instantly. And it just starts playing it. And you're like, oh God, why'd I say that? Yeah.

Why'd I say play Hurt? Play, God's Gonna Cut You Down.

What a world that we live in.

Instantly.

By the way, I was just listening to that the other day. Is this going to get us in trouble with YouTube? Is it? Oh, sorry. I did want to show you this picture of Alessandra's legs.

If you hum it too well, it'll get you. We were so much better off when we were trapped in our walled garden. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We got out and now it's over.

Yeah. It's fucking nuts, man. It's nuts. I think it's beautiful because I love the fact that you can tell me about something and I can get it instantly. Like someone could say, oh my God, you have to see.

That's Sandra's legs. Oh my God. That's insane. He looks like he's going to die. Yeah.

And he loves that. That's particularly ridiculous. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. That's awesome.

That guy has no body fat. Zero body fat. The guy at the gym said, are you 8% body fat? He goes, if I was 8% body fat, I'd kill myself.

That's so ridiculous. But that's his thing, though. He literally is like, I'm in space. I'm like a space. You know how we get stuff from the space program?

We figure out how a razor works or get shaving cream that keeps the hairs from flying. That's what he is to me. He's like, I'm up here on the ragged edge, so I can give you this information back. That's an interesting way of looking at it. You do learn health and wellness things from people that are on the fringes in the bodybuilding world.

Yeah, and he's in his 60s. So it's like, you're like, okay, this guy can have legs like that in his 60s, so give me some. Give me a little of the knowledge. He's funny too, because he's like, look, I don't have a family. I don't have kids.

This is what I do. Jesus. You know, this is what I do. he's just getting jacked. I just get jacked and I research.

I test my body constantly. He's like on the ragged edge with every single, he's always making these small adjustments. He goes, I ate a sesame seed and I saw that I was a little less ripped.

It's so ridiculous. Because it's like, oh, he's constantly like, it's like he's on a razor's edge, which I love. People like that are super beneficial to any sort of extreme sport. Well, that's what I mean. Extreme sport, that's what I'm saying.

Those little pieces of information they tell you about like, oh, you know, like whatever I'm taking this or like, I thought about this and I experimented with that. And you're like, oh, okay. Like, thanks. Yeah. Thanks for that.

Thanks. Thanks for being out there. Right. You know, thanks for being the oxygen mask like up and on the stratosphere. Yeah.

The possessed mad genius. Yeah. It's they, by the way, the world's made of that. Oh, yeah. There's a guy out here in Austin, Texas.

His name is John Donahuer. He's widely considered to be the greatest jujitsu coach ever. Oh, really? He's here? He's a professor.

He was a professor of philosophy at Columbia. That's cool. And was spending time as a bouncer. Wanted to learn martial arts. Got into jiu-jitsu and became a jiu-jitsu fanatic, to the point where he's teaching it and sleeping on the floors and teaching classes.

Did he have a natural gift for it anyway? Like, it was like a... Well, he's a very strong guy.

A double-double, which destroyed his knee, fucked his body up, which kept him from ultimately competing. But he's just a crazy, mad genius that doesn't give a fuck about anything but fighting. So all he's doing is teaching people how to strangle people during the day, and then watching tape and reviewing techniques and creating the next workout schedule. And they work out 365 days a year. That's awesome.

365 days a year. And his number one student is Gordon. who's widely considered to be the greatest jiu-jitsu athlete of all time. without question. That's his belt up there.

The Abu Dhabi belt. When he won Abu Dhabi. But he's his number one student. And they just train 365 days a year. They take no days off.

Christmas? Fuck you. Your birthday? Fuck you. That's cool.

And it's just, you've got days where you don't train as hard. Are you worn out? Well, you're not going to train as hard today. Yeah. It's like you were saying.

Yeah, you understand. But at that point, you're in a rhythm. You understand your body. You know, okay, I'm hurt today. I know how to do this.

But we're always learning. We're not going to stop learning. We're not going to stop understanding. That's the one thing that's crazy about YouTube too. is that this idea that there's a resource.

You know how it used to be. to find a technique or to learn something? You have to go to the guy's house, fucking sleep on his porch. He's not going to fucking train you. He's going to slap you around.

Like, whatever. We're now like these kids today. A lot of their shit, the basic shit, they're like, I'm learning this. I can learn something that I had no access to. Absolutely.

Zero access, which I think is incredible. I have a folder on my phone that's all jiu-jitsu moves that I didn't know existed. And I just watched the jiu-jitsu moves. How is he doing that? Left leg in.

Oh, he went with the right arm. Wow. And then I'll send it to my friend, Eddie Bravo, who's a jiu-jitsu instructor. I'll go, is this legit? And he goes, I'm going to try this tonight.

And then we'll text each other back and forth. Like, it's a constant new thing. Sure. There's the basics. Put it in the workshop and let's see what happens.

A kid could be, just. all you need is a computer that connects to the internet and a friend. And you can get good at jiu-jitsu. Yeah. It's better to have private instruction.

Of course. It's better to have a coach who, you know, when you're teaching your classes, you've got to make sure this arm is protected and keep this here. And you have to have the defense. You have to put your hand on the hip. If you don't have something like that, it's going to take you longer to figure it out.

But if you are diligent and you're really dedicated and you have a fucking YouTube connection, you can get good at jiu-jitsu. I used to have to go to the mountains. That's true. Well, that's what I mean. Like, and that's true of a lot.

That's true of a lot of things now. Like, look, I just, I had this like, recently. I had this crazy Fortnite addiction, right? And I was like, yeah, I started playing Fortnite with my son, who's 10, and he was like, nah, he tapped out immediately. And I was like, well, you should come back because I'm just, this is kind of cool.

So I'm playing and then, like, you know, three months later, I'm like, what the fuck does it matter with me? My wife is like, you got to stop. I am done with this. I am done. You and I are the same thing.

I go, I'm. so, she's like, I'm so done. You need another fucking hobby. And so she's like, I bought you some clay, right? Oh.

And so I started doing some pottery, right? And that's where I was like, oh, YouTube is insane. cause I just, in like three weeks, I had done like all, so now she's like, every, every search engine is like, hand-built pottery, like glazing, firing kilns. Oh, that's cool. So yeah, so I have like, much more productive.

It's much, well, by the way, I get something at the end. And you feel better. I feel so much better. The feeling that you get when you play video games for 12 hours in a row, you feel terrible. when it's over.

You feel sick to your stomach. It's literally too like, and you have something good happen. You're like, yeah, like. I'm like, fuck. yes.

And my wife, I look over and my wife is like, in the doorway, going like, what's wrong? Are you serious? You're a grown ass man. Should you not be making a movie right now? Or like writing something or doing something?

Well, it's important for people to know that even people who are successful movie makers are still going to get addicted to those goddamn things. They're heroin. They're too good. They're so good. They're so well made.

We had a giant quake problem and I had a giant quake problem for years, and I quit. And I quit cold turkey when I realized it was like just, I was playing eight, 10 hours a day. You can't see the hours. That's what does it. When you see the hours, when you see like a total number of hours that you've played, you're like, okay, I could have written a novel.

I could have done so much. I could have done so much. So I stopped. But then, when we had a new studio in Los Angeles, we had a big warehouse and we said, let's put a fucking LAN in here. So we put a local area network and bought some gaming computers and set it up for quake, and instantly I was a junkie again.

Scratch in my face. I was fucking every day. We were playing three, four hours a day. It was nuts. It was nuts.

See? It just gets right into your, it's too good. It's too good. They're good at it. They're getting better, man.

Racing simulator? Racing simulator. I haven't even hopped on that yet. We've had it for over a week. The problem with it is it's too, it's like racing.

Yeah. It's like, the one thing I did like, I saw this the other day where they had the, one of the F1 guys went against like some, some kid, and he beat him, and I was like, that makes me happy. On the racing simulator? On the racing simulator. Yeah.

And I was like, that made me happy. Well, only just because, you know, you want that skill set, you want in your mind that skill set to translate. Yes. Like you're like, see? I was watching this thing on Formula One drivers, like all the different things that they have to be able to do.

Their response time is so much faster than anybody else's. They had this thing where they had the lights, and the lights go off and you have to touch the light when it goes off. And the Formula One race car drivers were like off the charts. Oh, really? And they all have, they all have crazy thick necks.

Oh, yeah. Because it's just, and also the helmet's not light, you know? It's like, it's serious. Yeah, it's a fucking serious piece of weight up there, bouncing your head around. No, it's fucking crazy.

And you're whipping around. I'm sure you've seen the comparison between a GT3 car and then a Formula One car on the same track. No, no. It's wild. What is the difference?

Because the GT3 car looks amazing and then the Formula One car, like, no way. That's not real. This is real time. Oh, as far as like it, being able to stick to the track where, like... It's so much faster.

It's so much faster. It's so much faster, and your, the time that you have, watch this. So, on the left side you have the GT3 car. These are, so these are just GT3 cars. That's, that's the...

Oh, the, the right is the GT3 car, the left is the Formula One car. Look how much faster they go. Yeah, it's gone. Yeah. They're fucking insane.

I mean, they're so fast and the way they hug. I went to the Koda, the Formula One race out here. Here, yeah. Yeah, it's insane to see it live. Yeah.

To see it, live, you really appreciate it. She's like, oh my God. My daughter, Willow, is addicted to Formula One. She's like, I sent her down two years ago to it and it was like, like, you know, look at that.

That sound too is amazing.

Woo. Yeah. Like the GT3, they look like they're not even moving in comparison. Yeah, it's not even close. Yeah.

And she, I sent it out because at the time, Formula One was wanting me to, we were going to do a film. I was going to do like a commercial for them, you know, and I was in the middle of pitching them and they were like, oh, can we send you down to Austin to the race? And I said, you know, I can't because I'm in the middle of this thing, but you can send my daughter. And Willow was like, she had like pit access. She was like losing her mind.

She's calling me every five minutes, going like, are you insane? Look at, there's, there's, like, you know, Hamilton.

I want you to like, she has like a tattoo of, like Formula One, like a car. Yeah. She's really into it. Well, I know that Netflix series out here in America made it way more popular in America. Blew it out.

Because it didn't make any sense that it was so popular worldwide, but not popular in a place that's most obsessed with cars. Yeah. Makes no sense. You feel like we would just be like drinking the Kool-Aid of that so hard. Well, our thing is just going around a circle real quick.

Like our thing is so silly in comparison, like NASCAR. Yeah. NASCAR is so silly. It's crazy. And you'd think that like, we would dig, like this, kind of all the turns and like the insane technology.

It's like, feels like it's right on our wheelhouse. And maybe, and I think it can be. Well, it turns out, it is. It's just got to, you know, it's something like, it has something like a Netflix special has to happen for it. It's like what happened with the UFC, with the ultimate fighter.

The UFC was always like crazy, exciting, but then the ultimate fighter put it on television. Everybody's like, wow, this is nuts. Yeah. And you get to like, invest in a personality. Yes.

You know, that's, I think that's in the end, Americans love that. They want that. They want to hook on to someone and ride them, you know, through the whole thing. Yes. Yes.

Yeah. That's the fun. They want to get connected to that person and root for them and feel the journey, especially in the ultimate. fighter was such a brilliant idea, because you get these guys to live in a house together and then they're going to beat the fuck out of each other. And they know, they know they're going to have to fight.

So there's all this psychological warfare going on. There's like chest puffing and there's so much weird shit happening. Yeah. It's, by the way, it's a great, it's a great show. And also because, like the drama, if you have fighting and drama together, it's kind of, it's kind of like an amazing combination.

You can't, you can't look away. And it's real fighting. And it's absolutely real fighting. Yeah. Like, you know, it's not like fucking around.

And these guys are fighters. You know what I mean? Like, that's the thing. It's not like you got a bunch of schmucks and said,

Oh, that's cool. Yeah. And you're like, Oh yeah, I saw them when they were, when they were just like scrapping around the house. You know, it's, it's cool to see them like rise, like that. It's a, it's, it's, it's, it's an amazing show.

It's cool. Well, there's a few things like that, like Formula One, racing and, and fighting that it just has to get in front of enough eyes. It's just, we have these things that we've always, like. baseball. That's always been around.

If you brought baseball out today, no chance. It doesn't have a chance in hell. No chance. No chance. I think golf would still make it.

Well, also, because it's a ludicrous concept, golf. That's what I love about it. It's like, and I, you know, I'm an okay golfer. I've done a lot of golf commercials. My dad's a scratch golfer.

He's an amazing guy. Commercials. Yeah. Back in the day, you know, like when I got out of college, I did like 10 years of, of TV commercials, you know? And every day, like all, and I did all, I I've done every, all the brands, every like, I've done a bunch of super bowl spots.

I did the,

like, there's a lot of all these kind of, for me, that were all these like kind of touchstones. But along the way, I did, like, you know, PGA. I did Titleist. I did like all these, like, you know, I have a tour bag, like in storage that says, like Zach, daddy Snyder on it. Like on my tour bag.

Yeah. So, but, but like the guys, like you see these, like, I mean, they are like, Phil Mickelson is like an insane, like he, he does this trick where you stand with your head down, with your hands, like this, you know, and then he's behind you with this pitching wedge, and he takes a full swing and cuts it. If he sculls it, it's going to crack you in the back of the skull, but it goes over your head and lands in your hands, right? What? This was standing right in front of you.

I haven't seen the landing in hands, but this kind of video. Yeah, it's literally this watch, right? He's going to do it, right? He's going to do it like.

Oh, my God. See, like, see that? Yeah, it's like, that's it. I did a spot with Phil. Oh, fuck that.

I did a spot with him. where he, I did a spot for him. I think it was, it was for, um, it was, um, with David Robinson, for, um, the PGA tour. And he, uh, he was sick. He had like a hundred degree temperature.

And like what it was, was. basically we did, they said, these guys are good. It was, was the name of the campaign. And it was like all these football players. And like golf would be, it was, it was a ludicrous idea, but golf would be in these scenarios.

And this was basketball. It was like one second left, you know, up. Phil Mickelson comes in to play this basketball game. They're going to play with a golf ball. And they throw in the ball.

The ref throws the golf ball to him. And he's,

he catches the ball on his, on his, on the, on the, on the, on the blade of his pitching wedge, traps it on the ground, and then hits, picks it off the, the, the, the, the, the gym floor, you know, and the ball flies up. And then David Robinson dunks it. That was the commercial. So he's sick. And he's like, Zach, I don't know, man.

Oh, also, we did a version of it where we had made the floor about a balsa wood so he could take a divot. Oh, and then the PGA was like, well, we don't want to look like it's, they were kind of mad. Cause. they were like, we don't want to look like we're destroying property. I was like, come on, guys.

It's like, cool. It's cool that he digs the floor up. They can fix wood. Yeah. It's also not real.

You know, like you can't, you can't actually do that. That's funny. But yeah, it was cool. They were that sensitive, but like Phil comes out and he's like, Zach, sorry, man, I'm sick. Like, I don't know.

Like I go, well, let's just try, you know, do what you can. And like, it'll only be a couple of shots. And so he's like, I'll do the best I can. So I, you know, I throw him the ball and he, he just like, cuts it in the air. And you know, like he, he like, cuts it in the air and he traps it with his club.

I'm like, holy shit. And he's like, how's that? I'm like, how's that? Fucking unbelievable. He was like, I'm sorry.

I'm like, I don't know what you would do different. Like it's, it's so crazy. So it's interesting when you see wizardry at that level, like the technique and the perfection of it at that level. It's so incredible. You're like, I didn't even play golf and I could appreciate it.

Yeah. Like John Daly too. Like we had, I did a spot with John Daly too. And he was like, he's amazing. And I guess the tournament before the one we had done, before the shoot that we did, we were doing it in Kominsky Park in Chicago, right?

And he was, the idea on that one was like, he's, you know, top of the ninth, two outs, down by three, bases loaded, whatever, whatever, you know, and pitcher, here comes John Daly, right? And so what we did was, so the idea was like, we had this like, minor league pitcher was supposed to throw a pitch and he's, you know, we did it with visual effects, he takes the ball out of the air. So what we did was we got this super long tee, right? And we put the ball on it. And I was like, John, do you think you can, can you hit a drive with a two foot tee?

Like that sounds crazy. He's like, I, fucking, no problem. But like when he came out, he was mad because he had picked up his ball, like, you know, he got fined by the PGA. If you pick up your ball halfway through the tournament, you can't just leave. They don't like that.

And I guess he was having a bad round. And so he just said, fuck it. And he just picked up his ball and walked off. And they were like, so they fined him. And he was super mad that he got fined.

And so he goes, he goes, I'm gonna fuck up that jumbotron. And I was like, I was like, John, I go, if that's me, I'll have to pay for it. It's not the PGA. And then he was like, so he's like, Oh, man, I'm so sorry. Like, okay, I won't hit it.

I didn't know. Like, I thought, you know, he's like the sweetest guy. And then he, just like, he, just cranks this.

He's like our Babe Ruth. Like, he literally, I've done a bunch of spots with him. You know, like on his backswing, the club head is pointing down at the ground because he's so twisted. And then he just uncoils. And it's just unbelievable, the amount of power that the guy, and he hits the ball out of the stadium.

And it goes, literally, we had PAs in the parking lot. And they're like, the ball just goes over their heads and like into the freeway. You know, he's just a fricking. Jamie, do you have that video that I sent you recently of that guy? There's this fucking guy who does this step in move.

Oh, right. Sure. Like the Happy Gilroy? Well, not quite that. Not quite that.

But with technique. And it's perfect. And the drive is insane. And the torque is insane. Again, this is coming from someone who doesn't know jack shit about golf.

Look at this kid. Jesus.

Jesus. I mean, that is fucking insane. The fact that he can actually, with that amount of backswing, the fact that he can actually hit the ball cleanly, is unbelievable. Is he from, is that Chinese? I don't know.

I don't know. It looks like Japanese to me. Is it Japanese? His writing is Japanese. So he's Japanese?

Isn't it? There's a lot of, I mean, it's very popular in Japan. Yeah. His name is Japanese.

Yeah. But that fucking technique is mad. That's so cool. Let me hear that again. Because the sound.

The sound, is awesome. That's where, that could be, there's balls that do that. Bro, I don't give a fuck. what does that.

Look at where it ends. The club ends in front of his face, past his face, near his left shoulder. There's so much whip on the... It's amazing. That's crazy.

But yeah, it's fun. That's wild. It was fun, actually, that time in my life, traveling around and doing all those TV commercials all over the world. Like, I had a crew of guys. It was like me and my boys, and we would just like literally go one job, Papua New Guinea, one job, Germany, one job, Mexico, one job, Iceland, like over, and we were just on the road completely out of our minds.

And it was just, you know, and like whatever product we'd be like, okay, I'd be pitching. I mean, the guys would be like, what are we doing next? I'm like, I gotta get on a call, like I have an agency and I get on the call in the hotel room and I pitch them, and I'd be out of my mind, I don't know what I'm saying, and I'd come out and they'd be like, how'd it go? And I think I got it. And they were like, how'd you, did you nail it?

I was like, yeah. I told them it's going to be like low angles and slow motion and it's fucking cool. And they were like, okay, cool, let's go. And it was just this, we were just in this machine. And frankly, I learned everything, like.

I spent 10 years, you know, like that 10,000 hours thing. It literally, I spent 10 years with every production problem, because I was a director of photography, I was the DP and the director. And you know, we were a pretty small show, you know, but we had giant clients, anything you can think of. So then, when I went to make a movie, it wasn't like, there was. no, there was no thing I hadn't seen, you know, it wasn't like.

I stepped on a set, like, oh, I'm a first time director.

Like, what's his, you know, what's he going to say? And I'd be like, there was like, the tools were my tools. You know what I mean? Like, I was very comfortable with the tool set that I had in front of me, like more so than I probably should have been. You know, I remember Matt Leonetti, who was the DP of Dawn of the Dead, that was my first movie, was like, halfway through the thing, he's like, you know, you know, you're doing like, you know, you know what I mean?

Like, you know, you're doing like, he goes, they can't fire you now, because like, we were halfway through, because like, I was so diligent, like, on my first movie, I was so scared. You know, Scott Stuber, who was the executive at Netflix, who was my executive on Army of the Dead, he was the one that hired me to do Dawn. And I was so, I wanted to do such a, like, I wanted to be so conscientious. And I was so scared of like, going over budget and not nailing it and making sure it was cool and all that, that, like, Matt Leonetti, at one point, was like, look, man, like, you got to just fuck it, you know, you're, it's your, make it cool now, don't give a fuck, just make it, do what you think. And it was such great advice, because I think the movie's edge, and all the coolness in the movie, and the man comes around and all that, like weirdness, the whole like montage with the Richard Cheese song in the middle.

That was all just me going, all right, good, thanks, Matt, I'm going to just go. And he goes, good, because, like, you know, because otherwise, he goes, you're just going to make a movie, that this zombie movie is going to disappear, you know, unless you fucking... Add your sauce. Yeah, go, you got to add your sauce, because he goes, otherwise, it's like, look, another zombie movie, like, who cares? Right.

Like, he goes, you, he goes, I know, you know what's cool. Well, you made it fun. I think that that was the whole thing. For me, it was like, how do you make a B movie? that's self aware that it's a B movie, right?

And in that self awareness, it lets you off the hook to enjoy it, because you can still be smart, like you deconstructed the genre, you, because, like, I've always been fascinated with genre and the deconstruction of genre. Like I'm a genre filmmaker, I always say to everybody, like people like, what kind of I'm a genre filmmaker, like, and that is to say that, like, in genre, though, you can explore, like philosophy, you can explore mythology, especially, which is like myth, is like my main, like, we make myth, modern myth, movies are modern myth, superhero movies are modern myth. Like, is it not the same when you say, like, we have Superman, right, and Batman or whatever, are they not the mythic answer to the modern, a lot of modern questions about, like, how we should live? You know, like, you say, Superman, is he not? and like, an invention, a 20th century invention that says to us, like, all the fucking shit that we run up against, whether it be war, or like, class struggle, or whether it be, you know, you know, inter relationships between different countries.

Does Superman not appear in answer to us primitive brains trying to figure out what the where we are, like you, make a guy like Superman, so he can answer some of those questions, he can represent a point of view that is not helpless in the face of the insanity that is. like, you know, the problems of the 20th century. And I think in Batman, in the same way, he's an answer to, like, urban, what is urban, the urban jungle needs a myth, you know, just like the ancient jungle needed a myth or the ancient, you know, those all, like, in those days, we'd say, like, why is the volcano erupting? Right. But now we say, because we didn't know, you know, we're just like, I guess it's the gods are mad, you know, right.

But now we have, now the problem is like, why am I, why do I feel helpless in the face of technology or whatever, you know, so we need an answer, we need an additional answer. And I think that's what, and that's what I've always, and I feel like genre has allowed me to make those comments, you know, and I think, you know, look, the funny thing about, you know, what I always find interesting, you know, the thing that I always find fascinating about sort of the movies I've made, and how they've landed on pop culture, is that, like, I remember, like, in the last article, it was like, it said, Zack Snyder, love him or hate him, right? Like, and I'm like, hate him? Like, what? I don't understand.

Like, what? It's just, it's a movie. You know, like, it's not, I mean, you look at Rebel Moon, you're like, okay, well, there's not a lot. It's not, it's not, it's not, it's not weird enough. It's not offensive enough to hate him for, right?

In my opinion. People find a reason to hate today. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And 99% of those people also hate themselves.

That's exactly what's going on. And when people are very hateful over art, you can like it, you don't like it, I don't, there's a lot of stuff I don't like. I have no issue with you not liking the movie. That's not, that's not the question. Who cares?

Yeah. The thing is, like, you, you would personalize, you'd hate me because I'm like, I don't understand that. Like, I don't. Because you're unreasonably successful. That's how they feel.

And that's what happens with people. You've done so many hit movies, like, fuck this guy. Like, people compare themselves to someone like yourself. that's been so successful and they get angry. That's why you can't read comments.

Yeah. No, that's why you cannot read comments. Never read comments. Comments are, you know, they're essentially long form. comments are what a lot of articles.

are. It's these people that are film snobs that get, you know, very pretentious about certain aspects of moviemaking and decide that their way is the only way. Like, listen, I like the Barbie movie. Okay. I found it enjoyable.

Sure. I went with my daughters and I had a good mindset. I said, let me just enjoy this movie. Sure. Just not be like, what the fuck is this?

Man didn't fuck this. I just said, this is a fun movie. Yeah. It didn't offend me. I laughed a bunch of times.

I thought it was fun. And I went online and saw so many people angry about that fucking movie. And it was all men. Yeah.

Listen, first, you're out of your fucking mind. If you go to a Taylor Swift concert and expect to see ACDC, you're out of your fucking mind. You're going to a Taylor Swift concert. You know what it is. So if you go to see the Barbie movie, you know what it is.

Why are you mad? Yeah. No one, like, were you shocked? It's literally about a girl's doll. Yeah.

What did you think was going to happen in it? Also, and I, by the way, I love the movie and I'm actually lampooned in that film. There's a line in the movie that says, I feel like I was in a dream where all I cared about was the Zack Snyder cut of Justice League. That is a line in that movie. That's hilarious.

Literally. And I'm like, that's awesome. Like, I have. no, I think that that, I was like, okay. My wife was like, she goes, that's cool, right?

Like. that's cool that they came after you. I was like, it's a hundred percent cool. Yeah. It's fun.

Yeah. It's, it was, it was interesting, but it's interesting to see when there's like, such a strong reaction to certain things. And especially amongst like really wild, hardcore fans, because there's hardcore, like. it's pretty like- Trust me, I know. Yeah.

You face, well, you also face it because you, you cover these genres. You cover these subjects that are iconic, Superman, Batman. I mean, just those alone. No, no. And by the way, that's a lifestyle choice for a lot of people.

It's not a movie. Right. Right. It's not a movie. It's like, it's not like.

if I made a romantic comedy, you'd be like, okay, that was fun. Right. It's like, I, the people who love, and, by the way, I love that they feel this passionately. I'm not, in no way would I criticize that, because I feel I live the same life, right? Because, like it's, for me, it's morning, noon, and night.

But so, for those guys, it's not just a movie. And so you have to, on some level, you have to acknowledge that they, this is their religion, you know, and they feel strongly about it. And, by the way, the truth is, it's my religion too, you know, so it's a, I tend to get in trouble because of my, I do take a deconstructivist point of view because of Dark Knight Returns, because of Watchmen. Those, if you've read those two comics, it's hard to go back, you know, to like, you want to, and it's because I care that I want to take them apart. Like I want Batman, like people are always like, well, Batman, Batman can't kill.

Right. So Batman can't kill, is canon. And I'm like, okay, well, the first thing I want to do when you say that, is, I want to see what happens. And they go like, well, don't put him in a situation where he has to kill someone. I'm like, well, that's just like, you're protecting your God in a weird way, right?

You're making your God irrelevant. If he can't be in that situation, he has to now deal with that. You know, if he does do that, what does that mean? What does it, what does it, what does it tell you? But does he stand up to it?

Can he survive that? Right. As a, as a God, as your God, can Batman survive that? I never thought that that was canon, that Batman can't kill, but well, for a lot of people it is. That seems ridiculous, given the circumstances in which he operates.

And all the weapons that he has. Don't read the comments right now. Don't read the comments. Yeah. It seems ridiculous.

It's well, I mean, and you know, there's this huge, like there's, so in Dark Knight Returns, there's a scene where, and I copied it kind of in Batman versus Superman, where he grabs the M60, he busts through the wall and he grabs the M60.. And he's like, the guy's like, in the comic book, he's like got this kid, the mutant has this kid with a gun to his head and he's like, I'll kill him. I swear I'll do it. And Batman says, I believe you. And he shoots him straight in the head because it's like a no win scenario.

It's like the Kobayashi Maru of, you know, the Kobayashi Maru is that in Star Trek, it's that test they put Kirk through where there's a no win, right? Because they want to see how you react. Right? So they say, okay, we're going to make a, we're going to make a scenario, a test scenario where you don't win, where there's no way to win. And in that situation, we find out what you would do in a no win situation.

Because if you're going to be the commander of this spaceship, you have to, you're going to be in situations where, you know, it's life or death. And especially when there's no tricking it, right? There's no tricking death in this case. And the famous thing with Captain Kirk is he, he went and hacked the machine and made it. so there was a solution.

And so that was. his response to the no win situation was create a scenario where he wins, which is cool, which is a cool character, you know, that's a cool character move. But like, that's kind of how I felt. That's what they would say, don't do that to Batman. Don't put him in a no win situation.

Because we don't want to see him lose, like we can't see him lose. He has to maintain this godlike status. And that's what the cool thing about Frank Miller, Frank Miller said, fuck it, I'm going to like, I'm going to, I want to see who this guy, like. if, if a guy, so you're saying to me that I've got a gun to this kid's head, you're Batman. I'm going to, there's no move.

There's no trick. There's no throwing the batarang. There's no dust ball to distract me. Like I've, I've just got to pull the trigger and I kill this kid. So you're saying in that scenario, Batman, what's Batman supposed to do?

Right? Right. Yeah. He's going to lay down his gun. What's he going to do?

Like it's, the guy says to him, I'll do it. I swear it. I believe you is perfect. Yeah, I believe you. And then, you know, so I'm just like, that's where, like Frank, he can take Batman and just tears him in half, and you've got to now come out the other side of that.

And Batman is still the hero. Batman still does the right thing. He maintains his code, his F, he doesn't change, but, like our perception of him changes. And I think that's like a, that's the, I, and I have run afoul of, but, but a lot of the fandom who have, I feel like, who have like gotten to the same place I have with the characters, where they need to test them to like, and I feel like the characters, it's been my experience that the characters have not let us down. Like these myths have not let us down.

They have, they've mean they, they, you put them to the ragged edge, into that scenario and they come out the other side and you're like, fuck. yeah, there's a reason why Superman is Superman. You know what I mean? Yeah. There's a reason.

Like, he can handle it. He can fucking take it because he's so iconic. Like you see, like the red ass, you go anywhere in the world with that Superman t-shirt on anywhere. And you say to any kid like, what's this? Oh, that's Superman.

Yeah, exactly. Like, you know, that means something. That's like fucking cool. Well, not only that, it's one of our first ever superheroes. Literally.

Yeah. I mean, just think of the name. It's so unoriginal. Superman. It's the most, you couldn't think of that today.

It's so ridiculous. You can't do that today. I know. If you tried to come up with a Superman today, everybody would shut the fuck up. That's horrible.

That's your guy? Yeah. You know, come on, man. We've got so many different interesting characters out there. That's why the Trinity, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman are so powerful, because they're literally, obviously the origin concept, right?

Wonder Woman? Literally, yeah. Batman? Batman's the only anomaly, because he's like a Batman. Like, what does that mean?

Right. He doesn't even have powers. Yeah. He's just like a, he's half bat. Like, what is that?

He's just got a lot of money. Yeah. He's got a lot of money. Yeah. That was like my favorite thing we did in Justice League, where Bruce says that line about like, when Flash says like, what's your power?

And he's like, I'm rich.

I always thought that was cool. Kind of crazy that no one decided to genetically experiment on a Batman. Like make- Make a Batman. But for another version of Batman, like take a guy and hit him with some Wolverine juice or other animals. Just turn him into a superhero instead of have him just be a rich guy.

Give him some crazy genetic mutation, some thing that they do to him. that turns him into something. But I think that, and that is the thing. I mean, not to that extent, but that's the thing that Frank does. And that's the reason why I wanted Affleck, because, like, to me, Batman's a big dude, right?

Affleck's 6'4", you know? He's like a legit big dude. And you know, like in the shoes, the boots are like two inches. So like, he's literally almost like, you know, 6'6", in the costume. Like when he comes out in the costume with that little bit of, I mean, we put some muscle on him and then there's a muscle suit under the suit.

And he's like, it's a, he's like, legitimately a scary looking thing. You know, he's just like standing there and you're like, holy shit. Like dude, the chin is so insane in that cowl. You know, he, I mean, look at him. He's like, you know, he's, I took that picture, by the way.

You know, he's like, legitimately, like. that's Batman. to me. I mean, I don't know like what, you know, because- Christian Bale was a great Batman as well. He's a great Batman, but he's still like, you know, 5'10", you know, it's cool.

I mean, not to be, I'm not, I'm not being, I'm not being rude about like- Was Batman giant in the comic books? In some of the, like in Dark Knight Returns and in Frank's comics and, like, you know, in the classics, he's a pretty big dude, you know, he's always been pretty thicc. Like in Dark Knight Returns, if you look at Dark Knight Returns, you know, like he's, there's a line like where he's trying to hold someone's gun and his finger can't get in the trigger guard because he's so big, you know, like where he's like, you know, I like things like that, like where you're just like, he's like, he has this, this genetic like gift of just being this big fucking dude. And other than that, you know, his parents were murdered in front of him. And he's also like a billionaire.

So like that, that weird, like you, you want it to not be just one of those things, right? It needs to be all of them in order for him to really, to do what he can do. But if somebody really wanted to fuck around with the genre today, if he had all that money, wouldn't he invest in some wild genetic engineering? that turns him into an actual superhero? Yeah, so it's, I think that that, that's the real, that's the fun of it.

Batman fans are pulling their hair out. Yeah, like they don't like that at all. What are you saying? Batman's, on steroids? Not just steroids.

Not just steroids. You wish it was steroids. Yeah, I'm talking something way crazier. Well, it's funny because, like I did, that scene, like there's that scene, I think it's, I don't think it's in the, it might be in the theatrical, but it's definitely in the director's cut where, like he's wakes up and there's some chick in the bed with him. that from the night before.

Cause, like, I always say, like, you know, Batman fucks. to forget for sure. You know, Batman's a drunk for sure. You know, because like he has huge trauma, right? Like, and I think that, like, you know, you wonder why he's a playboy is because, like, you know, like anybody like, that's a common, you know, fucking forget is a common, that's a real thing.

That's a way to deal with trauma, you know? And I think that, like, I have, that, there's that bit, he wakes up and there's like just painkillers on his bedside table and he's just like pops them and drink some wine. I'm just like, you know, to me, that's, that's like, that's like, that's Batman, you know? Like he's, you know, he's got his, he's got a maple thorp above the bed, he's got his glass house and he's just like, he has a, he has an aesthetic that's like clean, but like, that's all he does. That's like his life, you know?

Like he... The thing about Batman, the modern versions of Batman, the Miller, Batman, your Batman's, what's interesting is that now superheroes are these flawed, like very, very distressed characters. Sure, sure, sure. Like the Watchmen is the best example. They're all, Watchmen is all trauma.

It's all trauma, and it's, they're all crazy. They're completely crazy. And it's, it's such a good movie. Why the fuck was there never a Watchmen 2?? Well, because, you know, frankly, the comic book doesn't exist.

For me, that's why there wasn't. I just was like, the thing that's awesome about also that, it's one of those things like when you start to really, you know, look at like Night Owl, not being able to get it up because he's not, he's not in his costume. Like. that's just a cool, to me. that's just like a, that's like pure, that's like, that's boiling down superhero to its fucking purest thing.

I don't get turned on unless I like, I got to go out, fucking save some people, do some crime fighting and now I'm fucking ready to go. Yeah. You know, like that, that to me was like, that's, that's, that was like, that, that, that, as a superhero movie, as a concept, took a long time to like, like land with the boys or like these other kind of superheroes with. now, it's cool to deconstruct superheroes. It's kind of fun.

Everyone's having a good time with it. And I was doing it, whatever, almost, you know, 15 years ago. And you know, it just, I just don't think superheroes were as deep in the culture as they are now, where, like all those things would land, you know, like all that deconstructive kind of work that we were doing at the time was really in reference to comic books, not comic book movies. Because Watchmen was written, you know, in response to the comic book industry, not necessarily comic book movies didn't exist when the, when the book was written. Right.

You know, so it's a very much, you know, Alan Moore was very much obsessed with the morality of comic book heroes within comic books. And so, and he, he just took an adult look at it, you know, he's a smart genius, a fucking pure genius. But that was the thing that people figured out along the way with graphic novels as well. was that comic books aren't just a thing that children like. You know, I was a giant comic book fanatic when I was a kid and I wanted to be a comic book illustrator.

That's what I wanted to do. Oh, that's awesome. And I had one bad high school art teacher and it ruined it for me. Fucking guy. Fucking guy.

He ruined it for my friend, John DeVore, who was the most talented guy in the class. When I found out that he gave him an F, I was like, are you out of your fucking mind? This guy was so talented. Wow. And he was like, I was pretty good.

And he was quite a bit better than me. And then there was this other guy named Kevin, who was in our class, who was also like really good. And all of us wanted to be comic book artists. And I was really into the more adult versions of it. Like.

there was some amazing, like horror genre comic books back in the day, like Creepy and Eerie, that had these incredible, like Frazetta, covers on the, have you ever seen Creepy and Eerie? Sure. Of course. Yeah. God, I love those things.

I'll tell you my... Sorry, go ahead and finish your... No, no, go ahead. Oh, so what I was going to say was that I was obsessed with growing up this comic book called Heavy Metal. Yes.

Love it. And Heavy Metal is like my thing. Basically, what happened was my mom, I was like 13 or whatever. And I bought, maybe 12. even, I bought a copy of Heavy Metal, whoever sold it to me.

Because you know, it says Adult Illustrated Fantasy Magazine right underneath, like in kind of small letters, but it's there. I would cover it with my thumb when my mom was around. But she, one Christmas, like, got me a subscription to Heavy Metal. Did she know? She didn't know.

She just thought it was a cool comic book. Right? And I didn't say anything, of course. And that really, that comic book... And when you see the R-rated version of Rebel Moon when it comes out, because basically the deal I made with Netflix was they said, I wrote this script and I said, this is the script I want to make.

And they said, that is insane. And I said, yeah, but it's like Heavy Metal, but like in live action. And they were like, yeah. Is there any way it could be PG-13?? And I was like, wow, if it's PG-13, it kind of misses the whole point a little bit.

But I can imagine that, you know, for a mass audience and for, like, you know, viewership, that seems like the smart way to go. I go, what about this? What if we make, if I make, take this script, I make you a PG-13 version that you can just blast into the world and hopefully many people see it as possible. And then you let me, as a bonus, you just let me make this version exactly as I think. And they were like, okay, that sounds cool.

So, coming at the end of the summer, you'll see my two, three hour versions of Rebel Moon that are like hard, R-rated, the hardest stuff. Which you wanted to do. Which I exactly wanted to do. So they said, yeah, go, do that. And so they were able, because normally, when I do this director's cuts, you know, which is a thing now I'm weirdly famous for, the director's cuts were always an answer to a thing that the studio made me do.

Right? Like, here's my movie. They're like, yeah, we really want you to cut these parts out because they're not cool. They're like, the movie's too long or the movie's too violent or whatever. And I would be like, wow, really?

Because I really think that's kind of the why of the movie. And they'd be like, no, it's really important. Focus groups told us that they don't like that. So take it out. So I'd take it out, but then I'd go, like, you know, I'd go over to home video right across the street and I'd be like, hey guys, you want another movie to release?

Because I got the shit. And they'd be like, absolutely. Whatever you say. Because, you know, at that time there was a huge market for directors. It gave them a second kick at the can in home video.

Right? So they would be like, that's so cool. We get a whole other movie to market. that's like never before seen footage. You know, it just feels like a cool thing.

And so that was how I've always done my director's cuts. Always as a response to what the studio was telling me couldn't be in the movie. Because I never planned. I would always go into it like bright eyed, like, oh, everyone's going to love this. It's cool.

You know, the studio, when you see my cut, you're going to think it's amazing. And they would like look at it and go like, bro, like that's. no, like this too much. And so that's what. that's where my director's cuts, kind of as a just as a practice, were born.

You know, it was born out of that, me needing to show the world what I intended originally. And so, you know, by the time now that I've got to Netflix with this Rebel Moon movie and my sort of the mythology around. my director's cuts was kind of a thing, especially with Justice League, as you can imagine, they were like, you know what, why don't we do a director's cut as part of the process rather than as a response to it? And I was like, that's really smart. Like that's really cool, because in a lot of ways, I totally get the economics of making a PG-13 version of this insane genre movie, because what I'm asking, you know, from a budgetary standpoint, is high for like a boutique-y space movie, that's, like, you know, a heavy metal comic, you know, that's like a people who love that will love it more than anything else, right?

If I, if I can land that, they'll think it's the coolest thing ever. But like for a mass audience, it might not be exactly what you would imagine. So I'm like, I can do both. And that's kind of what, and that's kind of where I, and that's why, when you see the R-rated version of of Rebel Moon, you're like, fuck, this is, this is heavy metal, I come to life is really what it is. And that's kind of what I really wanted to do.

That's that was the thesis of my whole, like, me being turned on by the sci-fi, because, like, the thing you can do, I feel like the thing that you can do with with that format was you could really deconstruct sci-fi, like we always talk about, like, I said this at, the directors get like, when Luke Skywalker walks into the cantina, and like is confronted by Walrus Man, like, is that sexual? Like, is that? Is he like, he's fucking with? Luke looks like some farm boy in this bar, in this rough bar, like what's gonna happen to Luke, right? Like, that's a conversation you cannot have, right in star in the context of Star Wars, right, right.

There's no chance, right? That's not gonna. But like in, in heavy metal. That's real. Yeah, that that threat is real.

Yeah, you know, and it's not. And it's not anything other than, like, a naive farm boy, walking into like a gritty city bar, that he doesn't know what the fuck he has. no, he's out of his element, other than that, he's our hero, right? And he's got to go through a crucible, and he's got to learn, you know, he's got to like, these are the like, Joseph Campbell, Ian parts of his journey. So anyway, but that and that's kind of what it's cool, because, you know, I've always been like the hugest fan of heavy metal, I think it's like the fucking cool, it was the coolest thing.

Heavy metal is amazing. It's like, it always like made me it kind of broke me for comics a little bit, because, you know, it was always like, super sexy and super violent. And so you'd get a normal comic and be like, uh, when are they gonna start fucking? Yeah, you know, it's, yeah, it was always sexual. And there was one that I remember, that I remember was like, very stunning to me.

Very shocking when I was a kid, and it was a pretty sure it was heavy metal, but it was a, it was one of those genres where it was a guy and his wife started a relationship with a robot. Oh, yeah, cool. And he tried to like fight off the robot, and the robot broke his arm with his big dick hanging out. Like the robot had, like this big giant, flaccid dick, and he broke. the guy's arm was like smiling at him.

And it was just like, Jesus Christ. Sounds amazing. It was amazing. But it was also like indicative of that, that genre, that those days, like this is the 70s, right? 70s, when they first started publishing that.

All that was on the ragged edge, which was so. it was so underground and so cult and so weird. That's what I loved about it. And that's what I wanted to do with the movie. It's like, say, what is the cult, underground, raw sci fi movie?

look like, you know? So is it hard to do the PG 13 version? It was very hard. It was really... Is it conflicted?

What does it feel like? It was super conflicted. Although the only thing I will say is that I was liberated by the fact that I knew the R rated version exists. So there was in the other versions of this work, in the other director's cuts, there was a version where that director's cut never was seen. There's a very good chance that that movie never got saw the light of day, because where would you show it?

In the old world, in the movie days, all you had was DVD as your option. And if DVD said, yeah, we're good with like, just the normal version, then that would have been it. And it would just die a death and you would, whatever you intended for, the movie would just never be seen. And that's just how it was. And so this, in this scenario, I was like super grateful to Netflix, because I was like, you guys have like done a thing that I've never been able to do my entire career.

And that is like, know that this version of the movie exists and it's going to be seen. So I'm happy to do whatever we, whatever you guys think is right for the PG-13.. I'm like, I'm a good soldier and I'm proud of it and I love it. But yes, it is different from like. what I, you know, was.

What if the R version, is it NC-17 or R, do they do NC-17 anymore? I won't say the exact rating. We're waiting to see. We're still like up against it, but we're trying to get it.

It's TVMA right now. What does that mean? I don't know. No one does. Mature audiences?

Yeah. You know, like any TV show, that's not, because, like in TV, the cool thing about TV is they.

have TV-14 and then it goes to TVMA. TVMA literally has no top on it. You know, like you're going to, I think it's like almost like porn is TVMA. I don't know what, I, look, no one understands the ratings. No one does.

It's an alchemy that is impossible to know. It's all subjective. It's all subjective and bizarre. And so, you know, and they also, it's genre related, right? So like, say, for instance, the ratings board might say something like, well, this is a sci-fi movie, so it's, it's, it's too much, but if it was a horror movie, you'd be fine.

But it's a sci-fi movie, so it's not fine. Or it's a superhero movie. That was the whole thing with Batman versus Superman. I remember the ratings board said, we just don't like the idea of Batman fighting Superman. I was like, what is that?

Like, but what, how is that your opinion? Like? how is that? That has nothing to do with the rating. The ratings didn't like that?

Yeah. Yeah. They kept saying like, we want it, they kept making it an R. They kept coming back with an R for us. And we were like, we really, what do you want us to cut out?

And they were like, well, we just don't like the idea of Batman fighting Superman. I'm like, I can't take that out. That's the movie. That's so ridiculous. They would have that kind of power.

So it was crazy. So we really had to trim it. super, it, it's, it's-. Do you think that affected the final version? I mean, if you see the director's cut of Batman versus Superman, it's much better.

It's a much better movie. In my opinion, it's a much better movie. But it's representative of what you actually wanted to create. Yeah. And I think that that, that's, that's true of all the director's cuts that I've done is that it's just a glimpse into the why that you get to see better the why of the movie, the why of its origin, what it, how it, because, like, obviously something kept me awake for two years.

writing, something kept me jazzed about, like, fuck yeah, I can't wait to do this. I'm drawing. I draw, for Rebel Moon, like I drew 3000 storyboards for that movie. Like that is like a lot of work, you know, to like, you know, to, you got to care. That's five months of drawing after I've written the script.

Wow. So I've written a script for a year and a half, and then I draw the movie for like another five months. Wow. It's fucking insane. Oh, my God.

You must've been going nuts. Yeah. You must've been missing Fortnite. Yeah. Yeah.

That was before Fortnite. By the way, it's a good thing I didn't have Fortnite. Cause. I would have like... It would have ruined everything.

The problem with writing and with, for me, drawing, is, if I have one procrastination, I can do, one, I'll take it. Yeah. Cause. like, if I look at that blank pad and I look at the video controller, video game controller, I'm like, oh yeah, this is way more satisfying. That thing wants to fuck me up.

That pad is trying to fuck me up. The thing about the delayed satisfaction, though, is that if you could force yourself to get to the pad, when you're done, you'll feel good. And if you play the video game, you'll feel... Last night, I started fucking around in my office. I was just watching YouTube videos and looking at pool cues.

And then I said, all right, go to work. And I snapped and I went to work and I worked for a couple hours. And when it was done, when I went to bed, I felt great. No, I agree. I felt like I did it.

I did something. The feeling of doing something is so much better than the feeling that you have to carry for hours of fucking off when you knew you were supposed to do something. 100%. I couldn't agree more. And then, by the way, and in the end I did it.

I did that work. And when we went to film the movie... And I've always drawn the storyboards for my movies. It's a problem, but it's a thing that I do. It's my only process.

It's funny because when I made Sucker Punch, I remember we were talking about it. And I think it was my script supervisor, she said, one day you're going to not need to draw these drawings and you're not going to need to spend that time. And it's just funny that in retrospect, it's like, obviously I have to draw the drawings. It's like, that's my process. Now I realize there's no way around it.

You want to cheat. I wish I had a cheat where I didn't have to draw the drawings, where I'd be like, oh no, it's going to be fine. I think I can make it up on the day and it'll be good. And I do make it up on the day. But the truth is that process of drawing is the process that I vet a lot of the ideas in that drawing.

It's not just drawing, it's writing as well. I'll change the script. I'll do whatever. I'll be like, no, no. Cause that doesn't make sense.

But when I see it physically, I'm like, no, you can't, that doesn't work. So I have to re sort of, construct it in the drawings a little bit sometimes. When did you start doing that? I started doing it, I did it throughout, I did it 300.. Did you learn it from someone?

I had always drawn, like I draw and like, you know, I'd gone to school for fine art. So I was always drawing shots. It's also a thing like in film school, or when you're trying to think of something, movies take so much resource, right? You need like to make a movie, you're like basically an architect and you have to convince someone to build a building, right? And it's so much work to convince people, like to invest, to dig the, get, all the cranes and the steel.

It's like impossible. So drawing is like a little taste of it, right? So, like I can make, these are the shots I want to make, right? So, in a weird way, it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's drawing that beautiful sketch of the building. in a lot of ways, that's what it's going to be, you know?

So you can get a feeling for it. And I think that's what it does. for me. It satisfies the impossible group activity that's going to require me to like, convince people. Maybe that's why I love Fountainhead, you know, like it's, it's like that, it's that process of like, getting people to like, believe in this thing, that it's going to take resources and like so much crew and building and designing and all that other work that's down the road.

It's the, it's the drawing that I think is a little bit of a, it satiates that desire a little bit. for me. It gives them a framework too. Oh, it's hugely beneficial in the production process. Once they have that, everyone knows exactly what to do, you know, it's incredible tool.

once I have it. Did you do it for Watchmen? A hundred percent. My Watchmen books are insane. Did you draw Dr.

Manhattan's dick? Of course. That's the question. Here's the question. Could you make that movie today?

I don't know. Would they allow? I mean, like someone once gave me a statistic of how much time Dr. Manhattan's cock is in the movie, like, just full frontally in the film. And I think it's a fair amount.

I think it's the only studio film, it holds the record for most frontal nudity, male frontal nudity of any, you know. And it's kind of important. It's super important. Like he doesn't give a fuck. He doesn't give a fuck.

Obviously. Yeah. Like he walks around like that. He's a God. He's a God.

Like, what the fuck? You can't deal with it? Get the fuck, I'll fucking vaporize you. Or I don't even care what you think. You're a cockroach.

It's like, what does he say? He goes, the world's smartest man is no more dangerous to me than it's smartest termite. It's like such a cool thing to say, like, you know, like he's, he doesn't like, you know what I mean? It's like, you really realize, in the face of a God, like he does, I've walked across the surface of the sun. Yeah.

You know, he's like, I don't know. No, he was the coolest. He's the best. He's the coolest. And the transformation scene is fucking amazing.

By the way, that one of my, we were just talking about the other day, like one of my favorite sequences in any movie I've made, is his, the birth sequence of Dr. Manette, the whole thing with the Philip, because we, it's Philip Glass did the music, right? We borrowed the music because I had heard that music and I was like, it's got to be this music. And we tried to like, Tyler Bates, who's an amazing composer. He tried, we try, I go, write me something that's better than this.

And we just couldn't do it. So we just had to license it from, and I had to send Philip Glass the sequence and he watched and he said, okay, it's cool. You can have the music. That's so cool. Yeah.

Because it's like, you know, it's just so, it's just so, it's just so rad. Love this fucking scene. Here, hear this. That's Philip Glass, this music. When he knows he's fucked.

We built this giant oversized watch for those shots.

That's good. Yeah. That's that Philip Glass. So good. That's so good.

That music is crazy. That fucking birth scene is insane. It's so good. It's so insane. It's so good.

It's the skeleton in the hallway with the muscles screaming. Oh my God. I remember shooting that exactly like as if it was yesterday. We had this air cannon. We had to fire at that guy with the mop, you know, because he, when he, he like, gets hit with it.

He was like overacting. I think we did like three takes. I was like, guys, just the first time he, like, flew on the ground, I was like, okay, too much. It's good fun. Yeah.

That's really cool. It's interesting because, like, um, you know, we, I think one of the things that we, after Justice League, I think one of the things that we, we really as a, as a group, as a family, anyway, you know, cause I lost my daughter over that, um, you know, she, once my, well, you know, on the, at the post side of Justice League, my, I lost my daughter to suicide and you know, I left the movie, famously, and then the movie went on and then later we were able to, like, you know, finish the movie sort of in, in the way that we, we, we had always hoped. Um, and I think the thing is that, like, the thing that I kind of sort of come back to when I look at that and when I look at the movies, is like, you know, we, there are these markers, you know, the movies are really these markers of time that we, even though they're they, sort of transcend time. weirdly, you know, they, they exist beyond the time they were recorded, you know, these, weird, like they, they're in the computer as sort of these, singular, like little, you press it, but then it runs and it's real and it's time and it takes time to enjoy it and time to like, you can't just say it, you have to watch it and feel it again. You know, it's like a cool, it's a weird thing in that way.

And I, and I think that, like, it, just, the thing that you hope is that, in the end, you know, the markers meant something to people, you know? And I think that that's, we've really fought around because a lot of these, mental health has been a big thing for my wife and I, you know, since losing my daughter. And we've always tried, we've tried the best we can to like, support. the fans have done an incredible, like the fans have raised like millions, over a million dollars, just to support, you know, AFSP, which is, you know, the suicide, you know, against suicide in America foundation. And we've been like, just, it's been cool that the movies, these moments have like now in retrospect, have like a purpose, you know, and that they have like, that.

the fans have gotten this opportunity to kind of like, you know, join with us and kind of like be with us to like, you know, and you know, this, cause. it's a huge stigma, you know, like people, nobody wants to talk about like, that. they're having trouble, you know, that they're, you know, that they're not okay. And I think that what we've been trying to do lately as much as we can is like, say like, no, it's good. Like, you know, it just, it's okay.

You know, like, it's not a sign of weakness. It's nothing. It's just, it's real, you know, it's part of being human, it's kind of a hundred percent part of being human. And I think that it was a, you know, we've all, it's an easy thing to kind of say that, you know,

it's just stress or I just like, I'm, you know, I'm good, I'm not depressed, I'm fine. You know? And it's an easy thing to just try and muscle through where, like, you know, I think that, you know, it's my hope anyway, that, like, as a family, that, you know, the movies and our connection to the fans and our connection to like, that cause has been really, really deep. And I'm just watching this, actually, just, it started me thinking about, like, what the movies mean, you know, like how, their, what is their legacy, you know, what are they, and if they can do on one, on one hand, they are the moments you see for me, Dr. Manhattan, Leonidas, whatever it is, you know?

But then, on the other hand, they're, they can be, there's this other narrative outside of the stories, you know, like the, what was, what I was experiencing and what made me think of it is just like what I was going through at that, on that day when we filmed it, like what I was struggling with, what I was trying to deal with, you know, is real. That's hard stuff. You know, that's just, that was just life being lumpy for us, you know, just trying to make a movie, living in Canada, being away from the kids, just all that, all that struggle.

And then it's cool when, you know, it's been cool for me that when the fandom and the movie, like in the case of Justice League, they lined up, you know, where these, these, these people were like, no, we're not gonna, we, we want, we, there's a movie out there that we want to see. And it's, it's, it's around a struggle that we had as a family and all of it sort of came together. I always say, like, you know, people are like, you know, the fandom was toxic or whatever. They were like, they were so angry to get the cut that they were like, I go also, also. they, literally, people's lives were saved by the money that those kids raised.

Like literal, like lives, real, tangible lives were saved by that money that, that those kids that you called, that you would say are these toxic fans, they're also responsible for the saving of lives. And that's just really, you have to acknowledge it, because if you don't, like you, you, you, in some ways, the legacy that they were able to create is like dismissed. And I just, I won't, I can't. Well, that's just a reductionist view of things that people always like to apply to things that are controversial, especially when they're talking about your fans saying something like they're toxic, that's such a dismissive thing. No, there's going to be some elements of any passionate, rabid fans that are going to be toxic because it means so much to them.

And that's what you have to understand. The reason why they're behaving, the way they're behaving, the reason why they're screaming, is, first of all, they don't think they're being heard. And, second of all, it means everything to them. These people that are like, deeply invested in your films and, in particular, like things that have, like this sort of iconic history, like the Watchmen or like Batman, I mean, these are very important things to people. 100%.

It's like. the same way people are fanatical about sports teams, the same way they're fanatical about, you know, music. It's tribal, you know. It's tribal. 100%.

It's very, very, very tribal. So for you, when you have vision and you have these storyboards and you have all this stuff, and then you see something like, in my opinion, that birth scene is one of the great masterpieces of that genre. It's a masterpiece. It's like watching him be born and become Dr. Manhattan is fucking amazing.

I remember being in the movie theater watching going, oh shit. It was the perfect feeling. It's like what you want from these fantasy, escapism, graphic novel turned films. It was perfect. Yeah.

It's cool. And even just like watching it and like, you know, the comment, like I never said that the Superman was real and he's American. I said that God was real and he's American. And if that doesn't give you like religious, like fear, then like you're not, then you're just not human. Like, you got to like, it's okay.

It's okay to be scared. Right. Because it's fucking scary. Yeah. He's real.

Yeah. It's a scary thing. It's a very scary thing, but it's cool. But when you have these ideas and you have all this work and then it comes together, I mean, that's gotta be insanely satisfying to watching a scene like that. It is.

It's a cool, like, I guess for me, you know, like that, the process of like, putting it together and then like when you, when it literally lands and you, and it's what you drew and it's what you thought, and the music and everything like, lands, it really, it is, there is like, I mean, I'm sure it's like anything. It's probably like the same thing, like doing standup or whatever. Like when you, when like it all, when you're grooving, when you're in the groove with it and it's just happening, you're kind of surfing it and you're like, God, this is the, this is the feeling right here. Right. Like.

you can't acknowledge it in the moment, but you can feel it. It can push you, you know, like it's like a wave, you know, and you can feel it. It's the, that's how it is. You know, for me, it's, it's such a long process. You know, it's, it's not instant gratification.

You know, it's a very, it's like you really have to have like a head down mentality to get it to that position. because, you know, but I do, when I watch it that first time and it comes back and I'm like, yeah, that's, that's like fucking, that's, that's what we, that's the why of it. right there, you know? And I think that that keeps me going, frankly, you know, that little, a little high is, is really, it's really fun. Well, that's the goal, right?

The goal is to create that. And that high, people leave a film like that. That's like, there's, you'll do things that you wouldn't have ordinarily do. Like you'll, you'll, maybe you'll, you'll be inspired. Maybe you'll start working on something.

Maybe there's certain things, and I, that, I think that's the beauty of creation. in a lot of ways. This is not just escapism, but it gives you, it's like a drug. It gives you this like boost of excitement that often leads to inspiration to, it, inspires you to action. Makes people do things.

100%. I feel like that, that, if you can do that, then your movie's like, yeah, it's a huge success. If one guy comes up to me, like the thing about Man of Steel that I, that I've always, that I felt like, is that Man of Steel is the movie that the people will come up to me and say like, that movie changed my life. Like that movie, like, you know, like I thought it was about me, you know, like I'm an immigrant. Like I just saw myself in, in Superman.

It's like, really, like, you know, I was struggling at the time and when I saw it, I like, and I'll just be like, man, that's so cool. Like I'm, I'm so grateful that, like, you know, you felt that way about the movie. Cause I, I don't, you know, like for me, it's like I send it off into the world. You think about, like Netflix, for instance, where, like you push a button and, like, you know, Rebel Moon, right?

The zeitgeist is crazy because, like Rebel Moon, so say right now there's like, it's like almost 90 million views, right? 80, 90 million people, 90 million starts. So, or 90 million accounts said, turned it on. Okay. Give or take.

They assume two viewers per screening, right? That's the kind of math. So you think if that movie was in the theater as a distribution model, so that's 160 million.

account or people supposedly watching based on that math. So 160 million people at $10 a ticket would be what, what is that math? I don't know. 160, 160 million times 10, that's 1.6 billion. You know, so like you look at the view numbers, you sort of, you can use that rough, you know, so more people probably saw Rebel Moon than saw Barbie in the theater, right?

That's how crazy Netflix. That's how, that's how, that's the distribution model that they've set up. You know, I was like, I was at this thing the other day and we were talking about Rebel Moon 2 and I said, and they were like, well, talk about Rebel Moon 1.. I'm like, no, like. go fucking watch it.

I know you have it at your house. Like, don't like, it's not like a theater situation. You could like turn it on your phone right now and watch it like right here if you wanted to. Like, that's how crazy it is. I'm like, you know, like that, it's.

so, this model, this machine they built, is really something else. It's really crazy if you think about it. Just like we were saying about the Formula One, like they're able to, like, insert something into popular culture. that's so like a deep cut, like a documentary about Formula One. How else do you get that to the people?

No way. No way. No way. You release that in a theater, five people go. Yeah.

You know, literally five people go, but like, put it on TV and like a hundred million people see it. Yeah. It's crazy. It's strange. It's interesting because it shows that there was an audience there.

It's just like to get someone to go out of their house and buy a ticket. That's just too much of a tough sell. It's a different model. It's a different model. And it's weird how they think about it.

When you think about it in those terms, that you give the audience an alternative, like you give them a chance to like. go on this, you know, like Rebel Moon's, like, okay, that's new IP. Right? No one knows what the fuck that is. What's Rebel Moon?

Some space thing? I guess. Like, okay, well, let's watch it. You know, it's that the barrier for entry is so low that it allows, I think what's cool is it allows a lot more original and weirdo stuff to exist. because, you know, especially like you think, about the director's cut of Rebel Moon, which will be, if it was in theaters, a very boutique-y concept, right?

Very singular. It's like the animated version of Heavy Metal. Like, you know, the movie, I'm like, you know, I'm a huge fan, but like not a lot of people have seen it. where I feel, like this is a chance, where, like when this movie is released, the amount of people that can lay eyes on it is crazy compared to what it would be, you know, in another, if I was releasing it, say, theatrically or whatever, you know, it's a three-hour movie. Both of them are three hours.

So it's much different, like both the PG-13s are two hours, right? That was one of the things that we talked about. also, like I want the movie short, PG, right? That's the, that's kind of the prerequisite where I'm like. on the R-rated version, it's like, there's no rules.

Like it's, it's like no, no, there's no, there's no expectations, no rules, no, nothing. Like you get, that's, that experience is a completely different experience. When does that one come out? It comes at the end of summer. The end of summer, end of August?

I want enough time. Yeah, probably right in there. I want, we don't have an exact date, but like somewhere, I wanted enough time so that I didn't want to be, I don't want them to be too attached to the PG version because I love them. By the way, like I said, I'm proud of the PG version. I think it's fun.

I think when you see Rebel Moon 2 on April 19th, you will see a very, a war movie. It's a fucking war movie, is what it is. Like, cause. like. the first thing is like, gather the team, second movie's a war movie.

The R-rated version is just a different journey. Like you. just get there in a different way and it's just more, like I said, it's just more weird. It's more boutique-y and more bizarre. And more like the original.

More like Heavy Metal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. More like a genre.

you could, you can't really pitch a studio a live action Heavy Metal movie right now. It's just not a, I don't know how to do that. I don't know how you'd make that, you know, unless you are willing to do some sort of song and dance, you know, which is, which I'm, I think that as a product, like I said, I'm proud of it and I think it works for what they've generated, because, like, basically for the same price as two movies, right, they get four movies, which is a pretty, that's pretty crazy, you know, because the director's cuts for what, for the hour, additional hour and extra stuff that we did inside of each of those movies, each of the movies is an hour longer. What we did inside those movies with tone and with gore and sex and all that stuff within the same framework, you're getting two entirely different movies. It's not like extended version, you know, like that, I, that I'd be like, okay, whatever, you know, like, Oh, you did an extra, like weird little, here's the thing you cut out that you thought was too long.

It's not like that at all. Like, you know, it's just a lot more, I don't know. It's just true to the vision. Yeah. It's got balls.

It's got a lot of balls. And is that, I mean, that's gotta be this thing where you're waiting, like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I want you to see the real thing. I don't think, you know, it's a weird thing, because I, I don't think, I mean, look, it's a, it's a, it's an, it's up to the viewers, you know, in a lot of ways. I don't want to like, by no means am I saying that you can't watch both.

for sure. You can. It's a, it's really a, it's really how you do it. I feel like if you've seen PG 13, rebel moon, part one, you should see PG 13, part two, because that they're really closely related. I mean, they're like, it's a direct, you know, like you, it's, it could be one movie.

You could cut them together literally and just keep going where it's. chapter two. It's part two. It's like a, where I feel like the, in the R rated experience, it's just like a different, they're both going to release on the same day. So you can just fucking binge it.

Yeah. That's the way to do it too. With Netflix. Yeah. One of the things I love about Netflix is when I don't find out about something until like two or three seasons in, I'm like, yes, a hundred percent.

Like I can. Yes. Yes. Exactly. 17 episodes.

It's the same muscle that made me play Fortnite for like six months. But if you, if you have the time and a good series is bingeable, God, it's so satisfying. I think we could do another. That's what I always say to my wife. I'm like, how do you feel?

And she's like, I feel good. Are you sleepy? No. Let's go. Have you ever thought about doing like a Netflix series, like something that's so big that you couldn't do in one or two films?

Yeah. Yeah. We've talked about it a lot. Like, I mean, nobody wants Fountainhead, but that's what I wanted to do. You know, I pitched him Fountainhead because, like, I'm a, you know, I'm a, I've written this super adaptation of the, of that book.

And I just think it's, I think it would be amazing, but you know, no one wants to make it because they think it's like, you know, it's, it's taboo. Ayn Rand is taboo. Well, why is she taboo? I don't know. She's taboo among the intelligentsia because they think she's a fascist and they think the book's a fascist propaganda, piece of fascist propaganda.

I, I, that's not why I liked the book. I'm like, look, you know, I happen to just like it because it, it's, to me, it's a direct comment on making a movie, right? It's a movie about an architect who won't make the buildings that everyone wants him to make. And like what the struggle he goes through to get the buildings made the way he wants to make them. And it, of course, I like.

that, you know, like no movie director, I'm sure there's plenty of movie directors that don't like Fountainhead, but I just think that it just has, it says so much. Ayn Rand wrote Fountainhead in direct response to being noted, on a script that she had written. And she, she had been studying this movie about skyscrapers and they told her she kept submitting versions of the script and they kept noting or noting her until it was unrecognizable. And then she was like, this is what happens to a Pete, to like, you know, to work, you know, it gets noted to, into, like, till it's disintegrates into the spheres. And so, yeah, so that was, that's one thing I had, that I, that I've always wanted to do, but I don't know that I'm ever, I don't know that the world will allow that.

I don't know why it's, it's one of those weird things where Ayn Rand is, she's connected to, like incels, or, you know, like angry white guys or like finance people, they're cruel. Yeah. It's this very strange. Steve Jobs' favorite book, by the way. Interesting.

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. That is interesting. But it's one of those things where it's like, if you hear that, like, I'm, I'm an Ayn Rand fan.

You're like, oh, okay. Yeah. You're one of those guys. One of those guys. Yeah.

Do you need a Bitcoin too, buddy? Yeah, exactly. You know. It's true.

by the way, Alice Shrugged, fair. You know, you can play with that. That's a game that I, I mean, I, I'm pretty exclusively a Fountainhead fanatic. And for that, also because it's the, it's melodrama too, like it's the most melodramatic thing ever. I mean, as far as just like, why won't Netflix?

let you do that? I don't know. I feel like they should. I just, I feel like, I think it would have a huge, again, like I said, I think, I know it would work. I know it would work.

I know it would work too. Why don't, fuck, come on Netflix. Let's go. Well, I'm a fan of letting artists like yourself do what is their vision, you know, and I think people are often wrong about whether or not something is going to be successful commercially or whether or not it's going to resonate with a lot of other people. But that's the thing that no one knows.

Like. that's the awesome thing about movies is like, and why, you know, I'm not that worried about the AI influence over motion picture, because there's obviously no formula. No one can predict what's going to be successful, or they would have gotten rid of the directors and writers a long time ago. You know, like it's still, there's alchemy, there's still magic. There's still like an impossible, like, you know, all these elements come together and you're like, you feel something and you're like, what?

That was cool. Fuck. You know? And it's the thing like, who knows? You know?

Yeah. It's like, you know, any, anything, you know, that, that you see that maybe if someone described it to you in an abstract, you'd be like, that sounds dumb. Like I know. And then you sit and you watch it and you experience it moment by moment and you feel it. Yeah.

It's fucking cool. Well, it's also, I think there's always going to be a thing that people resonate with, where they know it's made by a person. They know that an artist's thoughts were involved in the creation of this thing. This is the vision. They worked tirelessly to produce this and they put it out and they're proud of it.

Here it is. And there's something about that, that you're, you're getting to take in another human beings, a group of human beings creation. And that, that means something to us. And I think it's always going to mean something to us. I think there's going to be AI songs and AI movies and AI art, and it's going to be cool, but it's not going to be as cool because it's not going to be from a human.

Correct. Or from human beings. And I do feel like the, the fingerprints, um, the squishy fingerprints on the thing are the thing that make it like unbelievably cool. Chisel marks on the statue. I want the chisel marks.

I love them. I live for them. Like to me, that's the bit, like the best movies, my favorite movies, the best movies are where you can feel the hand of the filmmaker. Yes. Like I want that.

I don't want, I do not want the movie made by committee. Right. Exactly. You know, you vote, you, when you, when you go to a movie that, that is, that feels like it was made in the boardroom, like I feel dirty when I watch that. I don't like it.