Bad Magic | The Data are the Data | S4-E5

2024-02-12 00:35:17

<p>We’re at our most vulnerable when we go to our doctors. But what happens when we can’t trust them? Dr. Death is the award-winning series hosted by Laura Beil, now in its <strong>fourth season: Bad Magic.</strong></p><p>Listen to exclusive bonus episodes of Dr. Death exclusively and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting <a href="https://wondery.com/links/dr-death/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">wondery.com/links/dr-death/</a> now.</p><p>When a charismatic young doctor announces revolutionary treatments for cancer and HIV, patients from around the world turn to him for their last chance. As medical experts praise Serhat Gumrukcu’s genius, the company he co-founded rockets in value to over half a billion dollars. But when a team of researchers makes a startling discovery, they begin to suspect the brilliant doctor is hiding a secret.</p><p><strong>Season 3:</strong> Paolo is a smart and handsome surgeon, renowned for his ability to perform surgeries that transform his patients’ lives. When television producer Benita covers him for a story, he’ll transform her life too, but not in the ways she expects. As Benita crosses professional lines to be with him, she learns how far Paolo will go to protect his secrets. And halfway around the world, four doctors at a prestigious medical institute make shocking discoveries of their own that call everything into question.</p><p><strong>Season 2:</strong> If someone you love is diagnosed with cancer you want them to get the best treatment from the best doctors. In 2013, patients in Michigan thought Farid Fata was that doctor. Between his prestigious education, years of experience and pleasant bedside manner, Fata was everything you could want in a doctor. But he was not who he appeared to be. From Wondery, this is the story of hundreds of patients in Michigan, a doctor, and a poisonous secret.</p><p><strong>Season 1: </strong>We’re at our most vulnerable when we go to our doctors. We trust the person at the other end of that scalpel. We trust the hospital. We trust the system. Christopher Duntsch was a neurosurgeon who radiated confidence. He claimed he was the best in Dallas. If you had back pain, and had tried everything else, Dr. Duntsch could give you the spine surgery that would take your pain away. But soon his patients started to experience complications, and the system failed to protect them. Which begs the question: who - or what - is that system meant to protect? From Wondery, the network behind the hit podcast Dirty John, Dr. Death is a story about a charming surgeon, 33 patients and a spineless system.</p>

2Speaker 2
00:10.98 – 00:17.70

A year before Serhat was arrested, the filmmaker Zebariah Newman climbed out of his car in

00:17.70 – 00:24.34

the parking garage of Serhat's clinic. This was as close as Zeb and his camera were allowed

00:24.34 – 00:32.22

to come to the building itself. In the dim light, he spotted his friend, Jeffrey Drew,

00:32.38 – 00:38.26

waiting for him. Jeffrey was about to undergo yet another blood draw at Serhat's clinic.

00:39.30 – 00:44.58

It had been almost two years since Jeffrey started his HIV trial. He had been getting

00:44.58 – 00:50.18

his blood drawn regularly, and each time he was told that his HIV levels were undetectable.

00:50.18 – 00:56.72

The experimental treatment seemed to be working. But Jeffrey was starting to get impatient.

00:57.48 – 01:03.10

He wanted to know if Serhat's donor cell injections had retrained his immune system to fight the

01:03.10 – 01:10.02

virus. As Zeb turned on his camera that morning in the parking garage, Jeffrey was having

01:10.02 – 01:12.40

trouble summoning his usual charisma.

6Speaker 6
01:13.32 – 01:19.46

He's, you know, he's annoyed. He's lacking patience. He even says that morning on film,

01:19.46 – 01:24.02

like, I'm feeling bratty. I don't want to be here, do this anymore.

2Speaker 2
01:25.38 – 01:33.22

Eventually, Jeffrey got up and trudged inside, alone. When he came back out, his mood wasn't

01:33.22 – 01:37.34

any better. The two men sat in Jeffrey's car, talking.

6Speaker 6
01:38.34 – 01:45.78

Jeffrey doesn't cry. He's not a very emotional person. But he was very emotional, and he

01:45.78 – 01:49.88

got angry, you know, and he felt a little used and abused.

2Speaker 2
01:50.86 – 01:55.34

If it was a cure, then Serhat stood to make a lot of money.

6Speaker 6
01:56.06 – 02:00.16

He said, I think that they might make a billion dollars, and I didn't get anything. He said,

02:00.18 – 02:01.38

I didn't even get a fruit basket.

2Speaker 2
02:02.72 – 02:07.52

But Jeffrey kept going on with the trial. He'd been risking his life now for nearly

02:07.52 – 02:10.56

two years. It was too late to stop now.

02:10.56 – 02:16.76

Even if someone else made billions from it, he was still hopeful his contribution could

02:16.76 – 02:19.72

make a difference in the fight against HIV-AIDS.

02:21.40 – 02:25.86

Then one day, Zeb heard from Jeffrey. He'd gotten some good news.

6Speaker 6
02:26.50 – 02:31.64

There was this idea that Jeffrey was going to go to Washington, D.C., and sit with Dr.

02:31.72 – 02:37.24

Fauci and have a conversation about HIV, and he's going to sit before some organization.

02:37.80 – 02:42.36

They're going to look at his data, and they're going to either grant us the money to do a

02:42.36 – 02:45.08

nationwide government-funded trial or not.

2Speaker 2
02:45.92 – 02:48.88

But there was something even more exciting in the works.

6Speaker 6
02:49.20 – 02:52.02

And they're either going to say, Jeffrey is HIV-cured or not.

2Speaker 2
02:53.40 – 02:58.94

Jeffrey waited to hear more about the trip. He kept reaching out to the clinic, but they

02:58.94 – 03:00.00

kept putting him off.

03:01.06 – 03:06.54

Eventually, in the spring of 2022, Zeb heard from Jeffrey.

6Speaker 6
03:07.58 – 03:09.28

Oh, I think Dr. Serhat's in trouble.

2Speaker 2
03:12.00 – 03:18.46

That was a serious understatement. And Jeffrey would soon have a lot more than a trip to

03:18.46 – 03:25.94

worry about. Like, was anything he thought he knew about the doctor actually real?

5Speaker 5
03:29.50 – 03:33.14

We're pleased to have ADT as our presenting sponsor.

03:33.72 – 03:38.90

ADT is the brand that millions of Americans trust to help them protect what matters most

03:38.90 – 03:43.12

because of their years of experience, reliability, and safety innovations.

03:43.66 – 03:48.22

And now, when the most trusted name in home security adds the intelligence of Google,

03:48.58 – 03:50.48

you've got a home with no worries.

03:51.08 – 03:53.06

Google is a trademark of Google LLC.

03:53.06 – 03:59.74

Go to ADT.com today or call 1-800-ADT-ASAP to learn more.

2Speaker 2
04:02.88 – 04:08.70

From Wondery, I'm Laura Beal, and this is Dr. Death, Bad Magic.

04:09.48 – 04:13.42

This is Episode 5, The Data Are the Data.

04:21.02 – 04:28.58

Over 5,000 miles away from Los Angeles, Enochian investor Ulle Abelgaud sat in his home in

04:28.58 – 04:34.72

Denmark, staring at an email he'd just received. His mouth hung open in shock.

04:35.72 – 04:41.34

On his screen was an article saying that the company co-founder had been arrested on murder

04:41.34 – 04:42.76

for hire charges.

04:43.76 – 04:46.22

As he told the Danish podcast Dr. No,

04:48.80 – 04:53.50

I walked out to the bathroom and threw up. At first I didn't believe it.

04:55.12 – 05:01.30

Abelgaud was used to the boom-and-bust rollercoaster of investing, and he'd stared down major losses

05:01.30 – 05:03.10

in the past without even blinking.

05:03.96 – 05:08.96

But this arrest was different. This time, someone had been killed.

05:08.96 – 05:14.92

And the motive prosecutors were pursuing connected right back to the biotech company.

05:15.90 – 05:21.16

He found the many sides of the company's scientific founder hard to square.

05:21.58 – 05:23.12

As he told the podcast,

05:23.12 – 05:29.10

It is difficult for me to understand that you can call yourself a doctor without being one.

05:29.70 – 05:36.32

You can be arrested for participating in and hiring assassins, and at the same time be a genius.

05:37.90 – 05:41.36

Abelgaud turned off his phone and locked himself in his bedroom.

05:42.32 – 05:49.02

He knew many people would be calling him with questions, and he wouldn't be able to answer any of them.

4Speaker 4
05:50.64 – 05:55.52

What's at stake from Enochian at this point is its absolute survival.

2Speaker 2
05:57.06 – 06:03.22

The Hindenburg team was scrambling to finalize their story after news of Serhat's arrest.

06:03.94 – 06:08.04

The market was watching Enochian, but that could change any day,

06:08.18 – 06:11.40

so they needed to get their report out as quickly as possible.

06:12.18 – 06:16.10

They worked around the clock checking and rechecking every claim in their article,

06:16.10 – 06:20.18

making sure that every accusation was backed up with evidence.

06:20.78 – 06:22.20

Anything short of that meant

3Speaker 3
06:22.20 – 06:27.76

All you have to show for your 12-month investigation is an investment loss

06:27.76 – 06:32.70

on top of all the research expenses, on top of the legal bills,

06:33.34 – 06:39.30

and in a case like Enochian, you might also have an incredibly wealthy murderous psychopath

06:39.30 – 06:41.36

who's not very fond of you.

2Speaker 2
06:42.12 – 06:44.76

It wasn't enough for the report to be true.

06:44.76 – 06:47.18

It had to be ironclad.

06:49.54 – 06:55.54

Thomas from Hindenburg knew he needed to put the team's findings to Enochian's executives

06:55.54 – 06:57.40

before the story published.

4Speaker 4
06:57.68 – 07:03.46

You have the privilege of putting in a final phone call that you've got them banged to rights.

07:03.92 – 07:09.80

Hey, your top scientist has been arrested on murder-for-hire charges.

07:10.28 – 07:11.68

What have you got to say?

07:11.68 – 07:14.98

I mean, that is a real, real buzz.

2Speaker 2
07:15.84 – 07:19.56

But this time, things weren't quite that cinematic.

4Speaker 4
07:20.34 – 07:26.14

That feat of trying to get anybody on the company, on the record, was an absolute nightmare.

2Speaker 2
07:27.18 – 07:30.36

The CEO, Mark Dybald, wouldn't take Thomas' calls.

07:31.20 – 07:34.64

Neither would a key member of the board of directors, Carol Brosgard,

07:35.04 – 07:40.28

or the man who brought Serhat into the company, Chairman René Sendlov.

07:40.28 – 07:42.18

They were stonewalling.

07:42.72 – 07:44.38

And the strategy was working.

07:45.46 – 07:49.14

Because each day that Thomas failed to get someone to comment,

07:49.60 – 07:52.00

Enochian's stock was climbing back up.

07:52.66 – 07:59.32

By May 27th, two days after Serhat's arrest, the stock had almost erased its losses.

07:59.82 – 08:04.50

And if it kept climbing, it could be financially disastrous for Hindenburg.

08:07.74 – 08:12.42

We're sorry. Your call cannot be completed as dialed. Please check the number.

08:12.42 – 08:15.50

Two days before Hindenburg planned to go to press,

08:15.88 – 08:20.04

Thomas was still trying to find someone to talk to at Enochian.

4Speaker 4
08:20.64 – 08:25.24

I just kept trawling and trawling through SEC filings and other documents

08:25.24 – 08:30.56

and finally came across a U.S. phone number, probably several years old.

08:30.76 – 08:34.42

But hey, I think it was a Florida number from recollection.

08:34.42 – 08:36.74

And so I think, well, what the hell?

08:37.26 – 08:40.94

Put in the call. Guy answers the phone.

08:41.30 – 08:43.68

Hey, is this René? Yeah, yeah, it's René.

2Speaker 2
08:45.00 – 08:48.98

It was the René Sendlov, the chair of Enochian,

08:49.42 – 08:53.16

the man who had merged his company with Serhat's.

08:54.12 – 08:58.14

Thomas said he was a journalist and René stayed on the line.

4Speaker 4
08:58.82 – 09:03.90

I said, did you know at the time that you did this merger deal,

09:03.90 – 09:08.04

at the time that you announced it, that you were dealing with a felon?

2Speaker 2
09:08.52 – 09:15.76

In 2017, Serhat had been arrested on 14 felony counts relating to fraud and theft.

09:16.32 – 09:22.24

It had never been clear how much René and Enochian knew about Serhat's criminal charges.

09:23.34 – 09:25.74

René's response caught Thomas off guard.

4Speaker 4
09:26.64 – 09:28.00

And he said, yes, we knew.

09:28.00 – 09:31.48

But he only had to pay a fine of 400 bucks.

09:31.74 – 09:33.52

And I knew exactly what that was about.

09:34.38 – 09:37.44

And I didn't see that there was any need to discuss that.

2Speaker 2
09:38.26 – 09:41.58

He also said that he didn't think Serhat had been convicted.

09:43.14 – 09:45.78

Thomas didn't think that was the whole picture.

09:46.40 – 09:48.54

If anyone looked at the case file,

09:48.84 – 09:52.76

they'd see a series of high-value financial thefts and frauds

09:52.76 – 09:55.86

that might concern any potential business partner.

09:56.86 – 09:58.10

So he tried again.

4Speaker 4
09:58.98 – 10:00.52

Why didn't you stop it?

10:01.72 – 10:05.80

René Sindleff said to me, he says, regardless of anything that's happened,

10:05.90 – 10:11.18

I still have to admit he's a genius, whether he's a doctor or not.

2Speaker 2
10:12.30 – 10:16.72

René's belief in Serhat's abilities had not changed.

4Speaker 4
10:17.34 – 10:20.50

It's like, how do you square that circle?

10:21.74 – 10:23.26

Just how do you do it?

10:23.26 – 10:25.86

You hired him because you thought he was a doctor.

10:26.00 – 10:28.14

Everything pointed to the fact that he's a doctor.

10:28.48 – 10:31.28

He can't be a genius, whether he's a doctor or not.

10:31.38 – 10:33.16

He's either a genius and a doctor,

10:33.36 – 10:36.48

or he's an absolute con man that you've fallen for.

10:36.58 – 10:41.14

But Sindleff seemed to believe that both things were possible.

2Speaker 2
10:42.28 – 10:46.48

Thomas pressed René about Serhat's arrest in the murder-for-hire plot.

4Speaker 4
10:47.14 – 10:50.80

He said, I don't care whether he's guilty or not.

10:51.86 – 10:55.00

If he is guilty, he needs to be punished for it.

10:55.28 – 10:57.70

And if he's not guilty, well, good for him.

10:59.70 – 11:05.82

How as chairman of a US-listed company can you be telling me

11:05.82 – 11:10.02

that you do not care if your founder and scientific founder

11:10.02 – 11:14.18

is guilty or not of conspiracy to murder?

2Speaker 2
11:16.76 – 11:19.94

We reached out to René Sindleff for this story,

11:19.94 – 11:21.86

but he declined to comment.

11:25.94 – 11:31.30

It was June 1, 2022, a week since Serhat was arrested.

11:32.08 – 11:34.94

The markets were going to open in just over an hour,

11:35.42 – 11:39.80

and Enokian stock was down just 60 cents from where it was before.

11:41.08 – 11:45.50

Nate sat in his office chair reading the story one last time.

3Speaker 3
11:45.50 – 11:49.50

We focused largely on his background.

11:50.22 – 11:54.10

So we focused on how he had apparently fabricated

11:54.10 – 11:57.62

every bit of his educational background that we could find,

11:57.78 – 12:00.74

that he didn't graduate with multiple PhDs,

12:00.78 – 12:05.38

that he didn't have any medical degrees or license.

12:05.72 – 12:09.88

He was, in fact, a low-level Turkish street magician

12:09.88 – 12:16.04

who had fled the country after charges of defrauding locals in Turkey.

12:17.08 – 12:21.62

And we also highlighted, of course, his massive white-collar crime spree

12:21.62 – 12:24.30

that he undertook right when he got to the US,

12:24.56 – 12:30.00

just really a buffet of various different flavors of white-collar fraud.

2Speaker 2
12:30.76 – 12:34.76

The article also detailed his treatment of cancer patients

12:34.76 – 12:36.70

from Denmark and Pennsylvania.

3Speaker 3
12:36.70 – 12:40.48

We really focused on his history to date

12:40.48 – 12:44.82

to show that this is not the Michelangelo you think you have.

12:44.96 – 12:46.88

This guy is a complete con artist.

2Speaker 2
12:48.82 – 12:52.84

Nate checked in with his team, and when everyone gave the all-clear,

12:53.46 – 12:57.70

he pressed the button to publish their investigation into Serhat Gümrükçü.

3Speaker 3
12:58.76 – 13:02.86

And just went outside and took a long walk and smoked a cigarette.

13:02.86 – 13:08.16

And the reaction when I came back was pretty much instantaneous.

1Speaker 1
13:13.56 – 13:15.88

We get support from ZipRecruiter.

13:16.10 – 13:18.30

Our friends at ZipRecruiter conducted a recent survey

13:18.30 – 13:22.42

and found that the top hiring challenge employers face for 2024

13:22.42 – 13:24.86

is a lack of qualified candidates.

13:25.10 – 13:27.82

But if you're an employer and need to hire, here's good news.

13:28.22 – 13:30.30

ZipRecruiter has smart tools and features

13:30.30 – 13:33.24

that help you find more qualified candidates fast.

13:33.74 – 13:37.08

And right now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com.

13:38.14 – 13:40.22

So as soon as you post your job,

13:40.36 – 13:42.14

ZipRecruiter's powerful matching technology

13:42.14 – 13:45.18

will show you candidates whose skills and experience match it.

13:45.68 – 13:47.74

And ZipRecruiter only gets better as you use it.

13:47.84 – 13:49.32

It learns from your preferences

13:49.32 – 13:52.34

as you use their rating tool to rate your candidates.

13:52.82 – 13:55.94

ZipRecruiter will send you more matches from new profiles

13:55.94 – 13:57.84

as they're created on the site.

13:57.84 – 14:01.22

Let ZipRecruiter help you conquer the biggest hiring challenge,

14:01.52 – 14:02.90

finding qualified candidates.

14:03.34 – 14:06.24

See why 4 out of 5 employers who post on ZipRecruiter

14:06.24 – 14:08.44

get a quality candidate within the first day.

14:09.10 – 14:11.56

Just go to this exclusive web address right now

14:11.56 – 14:13.74

to try ZipRecruiter for free.

14:14.12 – 14:16.26

ZipRecruiter.com slash doctor.

14:16.40 – 14:20.38

Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash D-O-C-T-O-R.

14:20.80 – 14:22.84

ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire.

5Speaker 5
14:23.48 – 14:26.42

Thanks to ADT, our presenting sponsor.

14:26.42 – 14:28.58

What makes you feel safe?

14:29.02 – 14:30.60

Maybe it's the embrace of a loved one

14:30.60 – 14:32.60

or connecting with an online community.

14:33.12 – 14:34.66

Well, what about knowing that your home

14:34.66 – 14:38.08

is protected by the most trusted name in home security?

14:38.68 – 14:42.96

Over 6 million Americans trust ADT to help them protect what matters.

14:43.50 – 14:45.48

As a leader of the home security category,

14:45.82 – 14:49.50

ADT has nearly 150 years of experience,

14:49.80 – 14:51.76

reliability, and safety innovations.

14:52.48 – 14:54.74

ADT utilizes the latest technology

14:54.74 – 14:57.66

for customizable and automated home security.

14:58.20 – 14:59.46

Choose what works for your home,

14:59.72 – 15:02.86

with features like motion sensors to Google Nest cams,

15:02.94 – 15:05.90

with no long-term contracts for self-setup systems.

15:06.32 – 15:08.70

Nest cams and doorbells can tell the difference

15:08.70 – 15:11.60

between a person, package, vehicle, and animal

15:11.60 – 15:13.34

and will alert you when there's activity.

15:13.86 – 15:17.12

Easily install your smart home DIY security system

15:17.12 – 15:20.22

at your convenience or leave it up to the ADT pros.

15:20.74 – 15:24.02

Either way, ADT makes protecting your home simple.

15:24.02 – 15:26.76

When the most trusted name in home security

15:26.76 – 15:28.56

adds the intelligence of Google,

15:28.90 – 15:30.98

you've got a home with no worries.

15:31.20 – 15:36.68

Go to ADT.com today or call 1-800-ADT-ASAP.

15:37.14 – 15:41.28

Google Nest Cam and Nest Doorbell are trademarks of Google LLC.

15:42.12 – 15:44.30

ADT. Brilliantly safe.

1Speaker 1
15:44.96 – 15:47.42

Dr. Death is sponsored by BetterHelp.

15:47.86 – 15:49.06

When thinking about relationships,

15:49.22 – 15:52.38

you might assume that the right one should feel effortless.

15:52.38 – 15:54.36

While that's true to some degree,

15:54.60 – 15:56.54

the best relationships are usually those

15:56.54 – 15:59.42

where both people put in the work to make them great.

15:59.92 – 16:02.04

And that's true whether it's your relationship with friends,

16:02.18 – 16:04.40

work, your significant other, or anyone else.

16:04.80 – 16:08.00

Therapy can be a place to help you identify challenges

16:08.00 – 16:09.10

you face in your relationships

16:09.10 – 16:11.68

so that you can take steps to work past it.

16:12.04 – 16:13.58

I found that therapy is helpful

16:13.58 – 16:15.92

even if you're not actively facing challenges

16:15.92 – 16:16.94

in your relationships.

16:17.14 – 16:18.40

Talking through what's working

16:18.40 – 16:21.64

can positively reinforce healthy habits and boundaries

16:21.64 – 16:23.26

so that when the time comes,

16:23.62 – 16:25.98

you already have the tools to address them.

16:26.30 – 16:27.96

So if you're thinking about giving therapy a try,

16:28.12 – 16:30.06

BetterHelp is a great place to start.

16:30.26 – 16:31.38

It's entirely online,

16:31.64 – 16:33.42

so it's designed to be convenient,

16:33.72 – 16:35.88

flexible, and suited to your schedule.

16:36.24 – 16:39.02

All you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire

16:39.02 – 16:40.82

to get matched with a licensed therapist,

16:41.04 – 16:43.36

and you can switch therapists at any time

16:43.36 – 16:44.52

for no additional charge.

16:44.68 – 16:46.00

Become your own soulmate

16:46.00 – 16:47.74

whether you're looking for one or not.

16:47.74 – 16:50.52

Visit BetterHelp.com slash doctor today

16:50.52 – 16:52.64

to get 10% off your first month.

16:52.70 – 16:57.92

That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash doctor.

2Speaker 2
17:09.82 – 17:12.68

The article began to rocket around the internet.

17:13.44 – 17:16.42

It made its way to Guy Rokin, the podcaster,

17:16.42 – 17:17.86

who'd interviewed Serhat.

1Speaker 1
17:18.32 – 17:21.00

I get a DM, a LinkedIn message,

17:21.16 – 17:22.68

from someone who I don't know,

17:23.52 – 17:24.50

being like,

17:24.70 – 17:27.36

Hey, have you seen this article?

17:27.56 – 17:29.78

Your podcast episode is referenced.

17:30.66 – 17:31.96

I open it up,

17:32.42 – 17:33.74

and the title is

17:33.74 – 17:36.20

Miracle Cures and Murder for Hire,

17:36.34 – 17:38.38

How a Spoonbending Turkish Magician

17:38.38 – 17:41.60

Built a $600 Million NASDAQ-Listed Scam

17:41.60 – 17:43.48

Based on a Lifetime of Lies.

17:43.48 – 17:45.72

And boy, was I,

17:46.52 – 17:49.44

I was just blown away by this article.

2Speaker 2
17:50.06 – 17:52.46

He thought back to Serhat's party

17:52.46 – 17:54.32

he'd gone to in the Hollywood Hills.

17:55.28 – 17:57.66

Suddenly, all the magicians that were there

17:57.66 – 17:58.70

made more sense,

17:59.46 – 18:00.68

but nothing else did.

1Speaker 1
18:01.12 – 18:02.92

The hiring of the hitman

18:02.92 – 18:05.68

is some next-level shit for me.

18:06.42 – 18:07.76

That is, and then,

18:07.92 – 18:09.94

and then those, like,

18:10.04 – 18:10.48

the medical fraudulence

18:10.74 – 18:13.48

and the degree of just,

18:14.38 – 18:15.00

I mean,

18:15.86 – 18:17.78

it, it, it's,

18:18.14 – 18:19.30

it's really baffling.

2Speaker 2
18:20.32 – 18:21.86

The Hindenburg team

18:21.86 – 18:23.08

began hearing from people

18:23.08 – 18:24.38

all over the world.

3Speaker 3
18:24.78 – 18:26.20

The reaction was like,

18:26.40 – 18:27.66

Holy shit, like,

18:27.76 – 18:29.70

what are you even talking about?

18:29.84 – 18:32.68

Fake magician who lies about scientific research

18:32.68 – 18:35.96

is not the norm for,

18:36.32 – 18:36.64

you know,

18:36.70 – 18:38.34

criticism of a public company

18:38.34 – 18:39.50

listed on the NASDAQ.

2Speaker 2
18:40.74 – 18:41.62

Sure enough,

18:42.04 – 18:44.50

Enochian's share price dropped again.

18:45.78 – 18:48.44

Hindenburg's report had spooked investors,

18:49.18 – 18:51.32

and their short sell had worked.

3Speaker 3
18:52.30 – 18:53.76

Yes, in this case,

18:53.86 – 18:56.84

we did make more than the cost of research

18:56.84 – 18:58.12

for our short.

2Speaker 2
18:58.94 – 19:00.94

Nate won't say how much they made,

19:01.34 – 19:03.24

but the risk had paid off.

3Speaker 3
19:03.78 – 19:05.82

Sometimes you can even be right on facts,

19:05.94 – 19:06.70

wrong on timing.

19:07.32 – 19:08.54

There's all sorts of reasons

19:08.54 – 19:10.78

why a stock can go up.

19:11.56 – 19:13.54

So it is often a very risky,

19:14.48 – 19:16.20

I mean, always really a risky endeavor.

19:16.92 – 19:17.98

But yeah, no, this one,

19:18.16 – 19:19.58

this one was one that,

19:19.64 – 19:20.70

that worked for us.

2Speaker 2
19:24.54 – 19:26.22

Enochian's reaction to the story

19:26.22 – 19:27.12

was immediate.

19:27.74 – 19:29.42

The day the story went up,

19:29.62 – 19:31.12

its CEO, Mark Dybul,

19:31.28 – 19:33.56

wrote a letter to Enochian's shareholders.

19:34.52 – 19:35.96

I have spoken to some of you

19:35.96 – 19:37.98

about the serious and disturbing news

19:37.98 – 19:39.16

that broke last week

19:39.16 – 19:40.50

about Serhat Gumrucu.

4Speaker 4
19:41.52 – 19:44.10

They try and tell us in the press release

19:44.10 – 19:46.30

there has never been a formal role

19:46.30 – 19:48.72

for Gumrucu in the company.

19:49.62 – 19:51.30

And his remaining informal role

19:51.30 – 19:53.22

as a scientific advisor is concluded.

19:53.42 – 19:54.46

So they kind of say,

19:54.68 – 19:56.28

we stand by his credentials,

19:56.82 – 19:58.62

but he's not got a hand

19:58.62 – 20:00.14

in the day-to-day running of the company.

2Speaker 2
20:01.02 – 20:02.64

This was damage control.

3Speaker 3
20:03.34 – 20:05.40

So the company came out and said

20:05.40 – 20:08.00

that they strongly refuted our findings.

20:08.90 – 20:11.56

But noticeably, in the press release

20:11.56 – 20:13.46

where they claimed that everything was great,

20:13.94 – 20:16.64

they stopped referring to Serhat

20:16.64 – 20:18.12

as Dr. Serhat.

20:18.62 – 20:20.88

They just started calling him Serhat

20:20.88 – 20:21.68

at that point.

2Speaker 2
20:23.04 – 20:25.16

Enochian called Hindenburg's article,

20:25.30 – 20:27.48

quote, misleading propaganda,

20:27.86 – 20:30.82

intended to drive the company's stock price down.

20:31.42 – 20:33.36

They said there had never been

20:33.36 – 20:36.00

a formal role for Serhat in the company

20:36.00 – 20:38.18

and that his informal role

20:38.18 – 20:40.66

of scientific advisor had concluded.

20:41.48 – 20:43.70

And they were insistent that their patents

20:43.70 – 20:46.68

still had the potential to cure deadly diseases.

20:47.44 – 20:47.98

In other words,

20:48.12 – 20:50.18

they were saying that even if Serhat

20:50.18 – 20:53.04

was a multiple fraudster and suspected murderer,

20:53.34 – 20:55.58

his ideas still had merit.

20:57.04 – 20:57.76

Dybul wrote,

20:58.02 – 21:00.14

the science is the science.

21:00.14 – 21:02.72

The data are the data.

21:07.00 – 21:09.88

But how could Serhat's medical miracles

21:09.88 – 21:12.36

be believed if it lied about everything else?

21:13.30 – 21:15.60

One of the people focused on that question

21:15.60 – 21:16.50

was Zeb.

21:17.40 – 21:19.04

He was wondering what it meant

21:19.04 – 21:20.34

for his friend Jeffrey.

6Speaker 6
21:21.40 – 21:24.84

The very first thing I was concerned with

21:24.84 – 21:25.78

was, is Jeffrey okay?

21:26.42 – 21:28.78

I started to trace back in my mind

21:28.78 – 21:32.78

all of the times where he appeared sick

21:32.78 – 21:34.12

or run down.

21:34.86 – 21:36.20

I started to question, like,

21:36.26 – 21:38.58

was his undetectable status real?

21:39.06 – 21:39.94

You know, like, why?

21:40.12 – 21:42.32

It just, everything started to flash in my mind.

21:42.60 – 21:45.48

And Jeffrey was very quick to reassure me

21:45.48 – 21:48.28

and everyone that he was okay.

21:49.40 – 21:51.88

But I don't believe that he was super okay.

2Speaker 2
21:53.50 – 21:56.56

Zeb knew that Jeffrey didn't want to ruin the trial

21:56.56 – 21:58.42

by going back on his old medication.

21:59.58 – 22:01.94

Even when he'd been too sick to leave his house,

22:02.06 – 22:04.40

he hadn't given up on Serhat's cure.

22:05.54 – 22:07.38

So Jeffrey called Serhat's clinic

22:07.38 – 22:10.04

and called and called.

22:10.62 – 22:12.74

No one there could tell him what to do.

22:13.18 – 22:16.54

So he went back on a regimen of antiretroviral drugs

22:16.54 – 22:19.80

and ended his HIV treatment trial.

22:24.30 – 22:27.22

We reached out to Mark Dybul from Enochian

22:27.22 – 22:29.60

about Jeffrey's treatment, and he responded,

22:30.36 – 22:32.64

We had no involvement in the administration

22:32.64 – 22:34.72

of this treatment to Mr. Drew.

22:35.36 – 22:37.86

Moreover, Enochian had no involvement

22:37.86 – 22:40.60

with any treatment conducted by Serhat's clinic

22:40.60 – 22:43.88

and did not work with the Serhat Research Institute

22:43.88 – 22:46.06

on any HIV treatment.

22:47.08 – 22:49.78

Mark Dybul, however, was aware of Jeffrey's treatment

22:49.78 – 22:53.20

and Enochian stood to benefit financially

22:53.20 – 22:54.92

from any positive outcome.

22:56.94 – 22:58.94

As far as Zeb could tell,

22:59.30 – 23:02.58

the whole thing was a huge loss for his friend.

6Speaker 6
23:03.82 – 23:08.44

When we would do these press events and these Q&As,

23:09.84 – 23:14.20

the just pride that he felt

23:14.20 – 23:17.44

for potentially being a part of something

23:17.44 – 23:21.88

that would help so many people was just massive for him.

23:22.60 – 23:24.42

And so when all of that got taken away

23:24.42 – 23:26.40

and suddenly he got put back on medication,

23:28.48 – 23:29.76

it was devastating.

2Speaker 2
23:32.02 – 23:34.14

Jeffrey had spent two years of his life

23:34.14 – 23:37.76

sacrificing his well-being in the search for a cure.

23:38.72 – 23:39.92

Had it all been a sham?

6Speaker 6
23:40.94 – 23:44.40

We'll never know how much this has affected his physical body

23:44.40 – 23:46.88

and what the ramifications of this will be

23:46.88 – 23:50.42

and will he be able to withstand cancer

23:50.42 – 23:53.80

or some other type of sickness or disease that comes with life.

23:56.40 – 23:58.52

It's incredibly infuriating.

2Speaker 2
24:00.46 – 24:03.30

We did reach out to Jeffrey for this story,

24:03.74 – 24:05.40

but he declined to comment.

24:08.48 – 24:10.74

Not long after Serhat's arrest,

24:11.16 – 24:13.70

Zeb's documentary on Jeffrey was taken down

24:13.70 – 24:15.86

by the streaming service that bought it.

24:16.88 – 24:18.74

For Zeb, that was tragic.

6Speaker 6
24:19.34 – 24:24.26

I feel like in this entire tsunami of terrible bullshit,

24:26.02 – 24:29.10

Jeffrey's story has been totally lost.

24:29.74 – 24:34.30

And his act of service and his just willingness

24:34.30 – 24:39.78

to put his life on the line to honor his fallen brothers

24:39.78 – 24:41.34

and sisters that have died from this disease

24:41.34 – 24:43.12

has totally been lost.

2Speaker 2
24:48.78 – 24:51.58

A month after Hindenburg's article came out,

24:51.86 – 24:54.88

another statement was posted on Enochian's website.

24:55.70 – 24:58.92

The company said they'd been reviewing Serhat's test results.

24:59.62 – 24:59.94

Quote,

25:00.36 – 25:04.52

The results of this investigation verified key primary data

25:04.52 – 25:07.46

for the company's HIV and cancer pipelines.

25:07.46 – 25:09.46

But that wasn't all.

25:10.08 – 25:13.68

The company also disclosed that Serhat had faked

25:13.68 – 25:15.38

the results of animal studies

25:15.38 – 25:17.92

for their COVID and hepatitis B treatments.

25:18.70 – 25:21.62

In this case, the data wasn't the data.

25:22.14 – 25:25.32

As a result, the company will initiate legal action

25:25.32 – 25:28.32

against Gumrukciu over the falsified data.

25:29.86 – 25:32.32

Enochian was now taking to court

25:32.32 – 25:34.52

its own inventor and co-founder,

25:35.06 – 25:38.24

the man they described as a genius.

3Speaker 3
25:39.66 – 25:43.54

They sued Serhat, alleging that they had been duped

25:43.54 – 25:47.12

and they had no idea that it was just a big fraud all along

25:47.12 – 25:48.76

and how could this happen?

25:48.86 – 25:50.92

Just such a horrific surprise.

25:51.46 – 25:55.22

And my thought was that this was just entirely disingenuous

25:55.22 – 25:57.44

to show if anyone asks, like, look,

25:57.82 – 25:59.44

we were also surprised by this.

25:59.50 – 26:00.26

We had no idea.

26:00.32 – 26:01.74

I mean, we were in line to make, you know,

26:01.76 – 26:03.74

tens of millions of dollars from these lies,

26:03.74 – 26:06.00

and there were red flags all over the place,

26:06.08 – 26:07.66

but how could anyone have seen this?

2Speaker 2
26:08.84 – 26:10.92

By the time the lawsuit was filed,

26:11.38 – 26:15.32

Enochian's share price had fallen to $2.11 a share,

26:15.72 – 26:17.70

and the company and its investors

26:17.70 – 26:21.20

had lost hundreds of millions of dollars as a result.

3Speaker 3
26:22.12 – 26:24.48

The largest holder of Enochian stock

26:24.48 – 26:27.38

was Serhat Gumrukciu himself

26:27.38 – 26:29.46

and his family members and related entities.

26:29.46 – 26:33.24

So the biggest loser in the stock market

26:33.24 – 26:35.10

was Serhat himself,

26:35.30 – 26:38.50

which is exactly how it should be in our view.

26:39.54 – 26:42.10

The CEO and several other executives

26:42.10 – 26:43.68

and board members had stock,

26:44.06 – 26:47.38

so they also lost significant amounts

26:47.38 – 26:48.44

of their paper holdings.

2Speaker 2
26:52.42 – 26:55.42

The fallout from the revelations about Serhat

26:55.42 – 26:56.90

was worse for the patients

26:56.90 – 26:58.40

and the people who loved them.

26:58.40 – 27:02.16

Those who had placed their hope in Serhat's hands.

3Speaker 3
27:02.42 – 27:06.44

I think what he did was he preyed on vulnerability

27:06.44 – 27:08.12

wherever he could find it

27:08.12 – 27:11.34

and looked for the absolute most vulnerable people

27:11.34 – 27:16.16

he could find and came in with a smile on his face

27:16.16 – 27:19.74

and a calm voice and credentials and the white lab coat

27:19.74 – 27:22.64

and pretended that he was going to solve

27:22.64 – 27:24.06

their most horrific problem

27:24.06 – 27:25.88

in exchange for a lot of money.

27:25.88 – 27:29.50

And people bought it.

2Speaker 2
27:29.82 – 27:32.34

What was going through Serhat's mind

27:32.34 – 27:34.12

as he offered these treatments?

3Speaker 3
27:35.12 – 27:38.04

It's tough to pinpoint the motivation for Serhat.

27:38.50 – 27:39.66

Certainly money.

27:40.32 – 27:43.10

I think he was motivated also by fame.

27:43.60 – 27:48.16

I think possibly motivated by a desire for respect

27:48.16 – 27:50.92

amongst peers or intelligent people.

2Speaker 2
27:52.14 – 27:53.88

But perhaps there's something else.

27:53.88 – 27:56.98

That same look that his old school friend

27:56.98 – 27:59.52

saw in his eyes long ago back in Turkey.

28:00.20 – 28:03.68

That same hysteria when he first saw a magic trick.

28:04.28 – 28:06.76

The delight of deception.

3Speaker 3
28:07.46 – 28:10.26

A lot of times with someone like him

28:10.26 – 28:14.86

they're also motivated by a joy in tricking people

28:14.86 – 28:18.44

and using his wits to get money from people.

28:18.60 – 28:21.78

Like a predator that feels a sense of joy

28:21.78 – 28:24.06

from his prey.

2Speaker 2
28:31.08 – 28:33.38

Welcome back inside our proactive newsroom.

28:33.48 – 28:35.30

Joining me now is Dr. Mark Dybul.

28:35.82 – 28:39.70

In late 2023, Enochian's CEO was excited

28:39.70 – 28:40.78

to make an announcement.

28:41.40 – 28:44.24

He is the CEO of Renovaro Biosciences.

28:44.66 – 28:46.64

Dr. Dybul, great to see you. How are you?

1Speaker 1
28:47.08 – 28:48.48

Great. How are you? Nice to be with you, Steve.

2Speaker 2
28:48.62 – 28:49.18

Thanks for inviting me.

28:49.80 – 28:52.18

Enochian had a new name and a new focus.

6Speaker 6
28:53.30 – 28:55.16

Renovaro, it means to renew,

28:55.78 – 28:58.58

is focused on platform approaches

28:58.58 – 29:00.84

to strengthen our own immune system,

29:00.98 – 29:03.60

to renew the immune system, to retrain it

v1.0.0.260408-1-a910ba6_os