"Taika Waititi"

Hey, God, sorry, I didn't see you there. You caught me off guard. I was just, uh, I just really miss Sean and, uh, and Jason. right now. I'm feeling real, uh, feeling real lonely, out here in this cold, open on my, on my own.

Less.

Smart.

Less.

Smart.

Less.

Hi, y'all.

Hi, y'all.

Hi, y'all. Good evening.

Hi. Good evening.

I know it's very late.

This is a, this is a very, very unusual, uh, after, uh, smart list after dark.

This is smart list after dark.

Yeah. I mean, I'm, should we take a piece of clothing off, maybe?

Oh, let's see how it goes.

I mean, isn't that what usually happens after dark in my house? Okay. Everyone's topless after a six.

No kidding.

I'm, am I the only one in my pajamas other than the baseball hat?

No, I'm in my pajamas, but that, that doesn't change anything from our daytime recording.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, And all jokes aside, what's the earliest you'll get in your jammies?

If I'm not going out at all, I never get out of them. I'll be in it all day.

All day. Oh, and you're telling me I smell like juicy, disgusting juice?

Well, no, I mean...

Wait, what's the quote?

What does it usually say?

I usually say you smell like dirty, disgusting, juicy juice. What'd you just say?

Yeah, something like that.

No, you usually smell like chin-chin.

Yeah, that's true. This is true. But, I mean, you always make fun of me because I—or what was it? I was wearing the same thing, like, all day long, and you're like, and you didn't take another shower?

Yeah. Yeah.

You take—.

But you'll wear the same.

What'd you both get into today? Here we are at the end of the day. Do you feel like you used today correctly, or did you just waste a day?

I do. I thought that I'd see you. I attacked the hill this morning. Took the kids to school, attacked the hill, didn't call either of you while I was on my journey, because I didn't want to get another impression of my breathless phone calls. And then—.

Were you zipped into your plastic sweatsuit?

I was zipped into it.

Your rubber bag? God, I'd love it if you actually had one of those. I wish. I honestly— I haven't seen one of those since. Rocky.

He jogged, and then at some actor years later—.

I was just going to say, Lawrence. Martin, Lawrence. Martin Lawrence.

Remember that? He jogged really long in that. And then I worked with Chappie. this afternoon. We wrote for about four hours.

So what does that look like, by the way, these writing sessions? Can? I guess? You're on a computer with him, because he's over there in England, and he just sort of shares his screen with you, and you kind of watch him write.

No. Wrong. Yeah. He just— I just watch him.

Hey, Chappie, can you tilt the camera?

Chappie, typo.

Chappie, typo. Can you tilt your camera?

Two lines up. Yeah, you forgot the apostrophe. Right there.

Welcome. I just got back about an hour ago from having a facial to answer your question. I treated myself— I haven't had one in a long, long, long, long time. Oh, jeez.

No, this is the kind where they pop blackheads and stuff, Will. Okay.

I'm trying to fucking—.

No, no.

You know, my wife's very diligent about making sure that I get in there and get my facial once a year. Yes. I know. Are you more frequent than that, Sean?

Nah, maybe two a year.

When's the last time you had your toes and fingers done?

Years and years.

No. You've had a manicure and pedicure recently.

No, not for years and years and years.

Will, don't lie. Last mani-pedi.

Mani-pedi, I don't know, but I've had two facials in the last six weeks.

Are you serious?

Is that right?

Because you had some on-camera work, did you?

Yeah. But you know what? I haven't had one in at least five years before that.

Okay.

And—.

This explains a lot.

Yeah. It feels good, though. Tell you what.

I pass out.

Yeah, me too.

Yeah, I do too. Best.

Do you have one of those ugly wake-ups, too, when you're snoring like—?

Oh, my God.

I totally do every time.

This is also relatable. I also had a massage recently, and I did a 90-minute massage. It's not a 90-minute massage.

Yeah. You know, our friend Justin Theroux, you know, when he gets a massage, for some weird reason, he likes to watch World War II documentaries. What are you talking about? That's not a bit. That's all he does.

Where's the relaxing part?

You tell me. This is a guy— I don't know, but this is a guy that flies, you know, transcontinental topless, so I try to figure him out.

Does he really?

Yeah. Yeah, he does. When he falls asleep on a plane, he can't sleep without his shirt on. With his shirt on, he can't sleep. So if he's sleeping on a plane or wherever he's sleeping, he's got to take his shirt off.

That's just as gross as somebody putting their bare feet on the seat behind you on a plane. Like you know—.

J.B., you just hit the main vein of J.B.'s disgust.

What would be worse, walking around a hotel room without socks or shoes on, or walking down the aisleway of a plane without socks?

Yeah.

I'd say a plane.

A plane, for sure.

Yeah, yeah. Which is a tight second.

Because you know they don't clean their feet.

It's a cursory clean. They just go, okay, we're good.

But they start you out in horror by when you go through the radar thing, you take your shoes off, and you've got to put your socks there on the little foot outline thing where all the hot socks have been from people all over the world, and your hot, sweaty feet have to go on exactly the same spot. Their hot, sweaty feet just left. Oh, it's a fucking disaster.

That's a great title for something, hot socks.

You know what? This is so good to hear you working off your long-term memory of what it's like going through an airport.

And I always try to straddle those little pain-out things, you know, and I'd step on the inside or the outside, and I'm like, no, no, no. Inside the line, sir. Yeah.

You've got to be inside. It's like a fucking murder chalk outline, okay? You've got to be right inside. I know.

I try to straddle it, and then they get mad at you.

Yeah. And then I've got to put them back in. Then I put those hot socks back in my shoes. Now the shoes are ruined.

Yeah. Why are the shoes ruined?

Because the hot is wet.

What are you eating out of your shoes?

You're transferring the germs.

Yeah. And now they're dead to me.

Yeah. Jason, you know what you're going to hate?

What is it?

The rest of the world. Yeah. The rest of the world.

This is what you get at 7 o'clock at night. I know, it's true. Old Frankie Bateman.

Well, you know what else you get at 7 a.m. too. I'll tell you what else you get at 7 p.m. You get yourself a heck of a guest.

There we go. Oh, no. Oh, shit. Will's taken a sip before this intro.

I took a sip to make sure that I'm queued up. You know what I mean? Yeah. That I'm all sort of... I got a nice moist...

This fucking guest. This guest better be fucking great, Arnett.

This guest? You know this guest.

Fucking 7.20 at night.

So, this guest... Okay, well, let me ask you this. How's a guest who's won a Writer's Guild of America Award or a Grammy Award?

Great to win. Is this an EGOT?

An Independent Spirit Award. Holy shit. A BAFTA. An Academy Award. Oh, shit.

I have to apologize for my tone.

Tonight's guest has won all those things, okay? So, maybe you want to hold your 7 p.m. anger back a little bit.

That was Sean. Okay. That was Sean.

That was Sean. Are they a Tony shy of an EGOT?

You know what? He is. He is a Tony shy... He's a Tony and an Emmy shy of an EGOT. He's been nominated for the Emmy.

Maybe he'll get a Webby for this guest.

He might get a Webby. This guy... This guy, does it all. He's a writer. He's a director.

It's Tycho YTD!

This is fully excused. Fully excused.

Tycho!

Dang it! Dang it!

Oh, Tycho. Well done, Will. You're off the shnike.

I mean, very good. Very good.

I had the whole computer screen covered with this flap of paper that you told me to get.

How does it feel now that it's gone?

This is the first reveal of you guys, too. Wow, I love the mustache, Will.

What do you think?

It's fantastic. Thanks, buddy. Were you prepping for a role this whole time? the strike was on?

I've been prepping.

Wait, didn't you guys just work together? Didn't that movie come out?

Yeah, they worked together a couple of times.

I didn't mention it, but we do have a thank you, Sean, for the promotion, because Tycho and Searchlight will love this. Tycho's next film, Next Goal Wins, is about to be released.

I can't wait to see it.

Maybe at the time of this it is released, and it's a great movie, and it was made even better by some of the casting.

The trailer looks incredible.

It does.

I can't wait to see it.

Tycho.

It looks hysterical.

You know, you said we just had done a movie together. I completely forgot that.

I know.

I shot this movie so long ago.

What a memorable performance, Willie.

I know.

Tycho doesn't even remember.

By the way, you said...

It's all that shit on the editing room floor.

The good stuff. Remind yourself.

We did. We also did Our Flag Means Death right around that same time together, which is a series about pirates.

It is.

Right. So just looking at the scoreboard, that's two for Will, zero for Sean, zero for Jason. Yeah.

Okay. Don't worry. Listen, maybe when you're lucky, when you work with Tycho, he won't remember you having done it either.

That'll be exciting.

Jason, I actually forgot to email you back about that other thing.

Oh, when I said I couldn't do the soccer movie, give it to Will?

No, you sent me something.

Oh, I wish. What did I... Did I send you something to look at? Maybe? Yes?

Don't be like that.

You know, you sent me something. I don't remember things at all. Hey, um... Where are you? Are you down...

I just landed in LA. This is why it's late, and I appreciate you guys doing this at this hour. I just went through that airport experience, and I'm exactly like you, Jason. I don't... I can't stand it.

Do you still have the dirty socks on right now?

Get them off. Straight from the airport. I don't want to touch them.

Well, wait. Go burn them.

But the thing... And I curl my feet outwards, you know, when you're standing on the air.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. Just put the pressure on the outside.

Hoping to have less surface area touching the ground. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Will, at what point in the interview can we talk about Jojo Rabbit? Do you have... Do you have a plan for this? Do you have a bunch of questions?

Well, let's talk about...

Let's talk about airports.

So we can talk about airports. Let's talk about Jojo Rabbit, because if you... People haven't seen Jojo Rabbit. I urge you to fucking see it. It's unbelievable.

Oh.

Sorry. I thought that's where you were going.

It's the film that earned Taika... Peter Rabbit. ...his Academy Award...

This movie.

...for Best Adapted Screenplay, and a film in which you play Hitler.

So funny. Yeah.

It's, you know... And take it easy, everybody. He's Jewish. Okay?

Take it easy. Okay. Take it easy. And also... I should have put that on the poster.

Take it easy, should have been on the fucking poster.

Take it easy. But, folks, if you haven't seen it, don't be an idiot and wait longer.

Get out there and help yourself. What was it? Two years? Three years. Two years ago?

It's so good.

2018? 2019, actually.

Yeah. Oh, wow. So, Taika, actually, walk us through that a little bit. I'm curious, because you adapted that from a book. Yeah.

My mother read this book called Caging Skies, and she pitched it to me. She said, You should make this into a movie. And the way she pitched the story to me, I found so funny. And I thought, This is fantastic. And then I read the book, and it was the least funny book I'd read in a long time.

So what was it? It was a kid going to a Hitler youth camp?

It was about a little kid who wanted to be the best Nazi in the world. Very topical right now. And then he gets home one day, and he finds that his mother's hiding a girl in their attic, a Jewish girl in their attic. And he has an absolute meltdown. He has no idea what to do about this thing, which he imagined as like, he's been taught that they're monsters with horns and devil tails and stuff.

I mean, for people who haven't seen it, it's just so goddamn good. And the plane lands at the end of this thing in a way that is so exciting and elegant and fun. And it's just, I don't know how you threaded that needle totally all the way through the film, and then an even narrower one at the end and just drilled it.

It's true.

And my question was, so you did play Hitler. Were you always going to play that part? Were you, like, I, got to do this or did that? How did that...

No, I never imagined. I mean, look, I'm brown and too good looking, some would say.

You're very handsome.

But we did put it out to a lot of actors, and I don't even think they got to see the script. I think their agents immediately said, that's a hard no. It's a hard. pass on this one.

This is an easy pass.

And I went and made a few other movies. I thought, well, no one's going to make this. This will be one of those blacklist scripts that never gets off the blacklist. And then Searchlight, who made this soccer film with us, they said to me, we really want to make this film, but only if you play Hitler.

See, these guys, I mean, consistently through multiple administrations, have been like one of the most courageous, tasteful companies in all of entertainment. I can't imagine a bunch of other companies that would have said yes. What was the pitch process like when you went in there?

You know exactly what it was like.

Picture this. Did you have your agent sort of soften the ground a little bit and say, he's going to pitch you a Hitler film, but it's not like what you, I mean, was there any warning at all?

No, I went in and I went through multiple studios and started with, okay, it's about a kid growing up in World War II who's in the Hitler youth. And then their eyes would glaze over. You'd see them fidget uncomfortably in their seat. And I would sort of just trail off from there. You'd just know instantly that it's not for them.

But, like from jump, though, the way that you play and introduce Hitler is just like, oh, I'm in. I'm wearing great pants. Tonally, they're not going to ask me to fall in love with Hitler. I think it was helpful that you didn't look terribly like the classic Hitler.

Also, I think what helped was not having a big star play that role, as it would have overshadowed everything else. The whole story itself would have been, go see the Tom Cruise, Hitler movie.

Tom Cruise passed on it. Well, we have some news.

It's so good. And so you do that. I mean, this is like, it's such a, yeah, as Jason said, I mean, and it sounds like very sort of highbrow, and it is, but at the same time, it's very accessible. And it's just so, I don't know, there's something really, and it's playful, and it's real, and there's a lot going on. And it really hits you in so many different ways.

It's not really a comedy. It's not really a drama. It sort of treads that little path in between the things. And, you know, I needed to make it, you know, we've all seen great.

But you weren't even, but you weren't, you never asked for a laugh. You were simply just in this wonderful kid's perspective. And, and that just allowed you so much latitude. Yeah. It was just.

I think, I think also with Hitler, it wasn't really Hitler. It was an imaginary Hitler from the mind of an 11 year old boy. So you could only know what an 11 year old knows. That's why he's a buffoon and an idiot.

Yeah. Yeah. It's great. I love when, like Jews, tackle that topic. It's just beautiful.

You don't want to see a Hitler movie for me.

No, no, not at all. Not with a mustache like that.

Okay. He never got this one.

And we will be right back.

Hey, it's Guy Raz here. The host of how I built this, a podcast that gives you a front row seat to how some of the biggest products were built and the innovators, entrepreneurs, and idealists behind them. Every week, I speak to someone new. Stories like Justin Wolverton's, a lawyer who just wanted a healthy alternative to ice cream. So he created Halo Top in his Cuisinart.

This motherfucker lied like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and add free by joining Wondery+, and the Wondery app, or on Apple Podcasts.

And now, back to the show.

Hey, let me ask you this. You touched on it, Tyken. It's one of the things I said sort of in my rough intro, but you are such a super hilarious dude, just as a person. And I think that one of your superpowers is using, you always find a way to make everything you do fun and funny. Like even, by the way, even Our Flag Means Death, which is a kind of a love story between these two guys.

No, well, coming from New Zealand, we have a very sensitive cheese meter, earnest meter. When we see something, we feel like, oh, it's a bit cringey. We try and avoid doing it.

What were some of those growing up that you loved? One of your favorite movies, that were inspirations?

Well, growing up, when I was like... I mean, the things I loved, really young, Blackadder, and British TV comedies, like Fawlty Towers and things like that.

Fawlty is one of my favorites.

They were all straight comedies, but they did it really efficiently and really well. But I think Strange Love is one of the best comedies that's been made. I love The Graduate.

One of the best comedies I've ever seen is Flight of the Conchords, which you were a part of. And I thought when that came out, I was like, well, my life has changed. That's the funniest show I've ever seen in my life.

Yeah, Jermaine and Brett are fantastic. Jermaine Wright was still, and I make stuff with him a lot now. Time Bandits were making a TV...

Oh, you are? That's awesome.

We still do a lot of writing together, and he's still, I think, the best writer.

How did you and Jermaine and Brett kind of come to know each other? What was that like?

We met in university, and Jermaine and I, we were auditioning for a university kind of end-of-year comedy show thing, and we saw each other in the library, and I think instantly took a disliking to each other, just based on the way we looked. And it took about two or three months before we started to get on.

With all of your success,

I did think that all the time, and I still do. It's so funny here, you have to explain everything. Everything that gets made, everything's explained.

If you want to just say, trust me, just let me show you some footage, but they'll never let you get there.

Yeah, but even to the audience, you have to explain everything throughout the story, every beat of the way.

was that HBO?

No, that was a film, and then we turned that into a show. Then Marvel asked me to come in and pitch on Thor.

Yeah, well, you did Hunt for the Wilder People in between that?

Yeah, Hunt for the Wilder People. I don't know how these films did. actually, I don't really remember.

Are you getting checks? Are you getting a lot of checks in the mail?

You know,

I was going to say,

but you do that stuff,

It was for NBC, and it went through all the shows on NBC, and it was the Brotherhood of Man song from that musical, and it cut to all the different shows.

From How to Succeed.

And they did a verse or a couple of lines from the show.

And it cut to me and Maya and Christina Applegate and Maya, Rudolph and me, and Taiki goes, we have worked together. And he showed me the stupid video. That's so wild.

Who else was in that?

Really? Did you have a set of specifications that you had to adhere to?

Yep, there was a list. There was a piece of paper with a list of demands.

Right, the way that he likes to be lit, the height of the camera.

Yep, height of the camera, exactly. It had to be a certain height to make him look a little thinner. I think it had like a sort of, whatever the Pantone of orange was, that he had to appear as on screen.

Wait, was I in that?

Were you in that?

I don't know, maybe.

I don't know if you were in the promo.

But I was like, but it's so funny. So here's Taiki, it's not like he discovered talent late in his life. Like he had it. But he's coming to America and they're offering him rom-coms, and he's like, no.

What made you think that Marvel is so incredible at doing their thing? I mean, they've got a product that is just incredible. It has made this industry twice as healthy as it's ever been. But I think one should and does and needs to adhere to a certain...

The parameters.

The parameters. Because that audience expects certain boxes to be checked. What made you think that your incredibly unique perspective on things would be a fit for something that you would probably agree needs to stay inside a certain boundary?

Jason, that's a wonderful question.

Thank you.

It was a wonderful question. I'm glad you asked that.

Will, did you hear all that?

I didn't know. I said it's a wonderful... I'm still basking in the glow of the question,

because I thought I'd get such a hard-hitting question.

It's so late, too, to be so articulate.

I have another one.

I didn't even answer that question.

To watch you suck Marvel's dick for so long was a real treat.

I took it all. Did you see me? take it all?

You did take it all.

Right down to the pubes. Let's get the answer now.

Right down to the pubes.

Oh, my God.

Jason watches gay porn in his free time.

You know what? I had no interest in doing one of those films. It wasn't on my whole plan of my career as an auteur. But I was poor, and I just had a second child, and I thought, you know what? This would be a great opportunity to feed these children.

Or do what my dad did. Go ahead, continue.

I'm still doing my answer.

No, no.

Hang on.

Hang on. They called and said, do you want to do this? Thor, let's face it, was probably the least popular franchise. I'd never read Thor comics when I was a kid. That was the comic I picked up and was never going to open.

When it comes to comics, I mean, read is a stretch. Okay, go ahead, sorry. Looked at.

Looked at. I flipped through. That's enough. And then pitched myself. I thought the only thing I could bring is a character.

That didn't scare the shit out of them?

I think there was no place left to go with that thing.

Everyone had passed.

It felt like, I thought, wow, they called me and this is really the bottom of the barrel.

But Feige has taken nice swings.

Yeah, the Russos.

The Russos. I guess it has been directors that have been outside of the box.

But they know what they're good at. They're good at keeping everyone in their lane and making sure they don't veer off into something else. that doesn't feel Marvel. So they bring people in who are good at story and making great characters.

And you obviously had a great experience because you went back for one. Yeah, but it is true.

I remember, we had friends of ours who were doing another one of these, I won't name it, but it's a series of movies that takes place in space. And they veered a little bit off the plan and ended up not working out because they had too many ideas that were outside of them.

That wasn't Marvel, though?

It was a different thing. But it was outside of the playbook a little bit. It made them nervous because it's their property and they've got a lot at stake. So when they hired you, the fans hated it, by the way.

They hated Thor? No, the fact that when I signed on for their first one, they're like, who's this guy?

They fucking end up loving it. My kids, who are big Marvel fans,

Yeah, but he's an idiot though.

He's not an idiot. He's a funny fucking kid. He's not a dullard like you.

Wait, you get a compliment out of Archie, you got something?

This is the 7 o'clock vision. Yeah, we're getting grouchy.

Bateman's, 45 minutes past gummy hour.

and he's not starting to shake.

He's got the fight and he's not pleasant.

Amanda won't let him in.

Amanda's going to text him and say, you take that gummy and 15 minutes later,

you can come in the house.

She leaves it on the front step.

Out of the top of the mailbox.

With the key, next to the key.

There's paces outside waiting for it to kick in, and then it's just a scratch at the door. It's not a bang at the door.

And she's looking at her watch. She's like 29,, 28.. Taika, when you hear that, that fans, like you said...

It made me happy.

Okay, next question.

Almost did a legitimate spit there.

And then I have to ask about Mandalorian, because I'm a massive, massive, massive, massive fan of that series. And so is Scotty, my husband. And how did you get Mandalorian? And how... By the way, you voiced the droid, right?

The droid. So Jon...

What did he voice, Sean?

The droid, IG.

Sorry, what's the serial number on the droid?

IG-11..

Make sure to have that on the top of your head.

This is how you landed, Scotty, I always wondered.

Hey, you into IG-11?.

Your headstone when you die, your gravestone is just going to be blank. Just going to be nothing. Not even a date.

So Jon said...

Anyways, the IG-11...

People walk by, oh, that's Sean Anthony.

Well, yeah, IG-11, who Sean will know is based on IG-88..

That's correct.

Wow.

Which is something I found out when I did the Mandalorian.

Did that floor you as much as it's flooring me?

Wait, you were about to say. Favreau picked you up and said...

He picked me up. He picked me up.

That's so cool.

I really like him a lot.

Love that Jon Favreau.

Yeah, same here. I'm sure he was fucking helpful as shit, because he's a cool dude.

Taika, so why did you just fly into L.A.? And where were you?

I went to Scotland. I was hanging out in Scotland.

Just hanging out?

Airbnb had these special little pop-up places you can stay. And I don't know if you've heard about this, but they made Shrek's Swamp with Shrek's house, a full replica of Shrek's tree.

Yeah, amazing.

My ex-girlfriend.

Well, there goes the what-are-you-doing-your-free-time question, I guess.

Wait a second.

Jason, the disgust on Jason's face.

I just... Can. I have 20 minutes of the interview real quick? Yes, go ahead. All right, so you are married to...

She's an incredible singer-songwriter.

And now you're married. Did you know that she was such a fan of Shrek before you put a ring on her finger?

No, I did not know that.

So she's a big Shrek fan, such that you went ahead and bought yourself a couple of first-class tickets all the way over to Scotland, and you stayed in a little grass hut or something?

Yeah. That was just part of the trip. That was just one fun thing we got to do.

That's fun, I guess.

And then we drove around Scotland, and we hung out.

That's pretty cool.

I guess that's pretty cool. Now, Sean, don't lie.

Probably not.

Would you go to space for it? If it existed in space, you wouldn't?

Well, space is fascinating.

Would you like to go to space, Sean?

Absolutely, don't you? Would you?

No, honestly, no.

Would you go to space?

Yeah, I'd go to space. For how long?

Just a couple of minutes. That's just a couple of minutes. That Bezos thing is a couple of minutes.

I just don't want to do anything. that when I land, the euphoria is relief because I got away with something. I feel like, you know, I shouldn't be doing things that I get away with anymore.

Well, that's how we feel about our careers.

Yeah, that's true.

Jason's like one of those dogs,

Keep it safe. But, Jay, it's a once-in-a-lifetime thing that you could just experience the view of space and the weightlessness, and you can't ever...

Oh, he's loved the weightlessness, Jay. That's true.

No, but you know what, you end up getting very bloated up there. Do you think so?

When you're talking to people in space, they look bloated, man?

A little too bloated, a little too bloated, and the hair all stands up. I'm kidding. You know I lean into all this stuff. I don't care about the germs. Scotland sounds great with the Shrek thing, and let's just get a parachute on me and get a plane going.

I would have loved, it would be great, I was just now thinking about Scotland,

You're not going to wash those hands? And just being in this damp castle.

where nobody's had any invented socks really yet.

Or plumbing. No plumbing, no bath.

Or toilet paper.

We'll be right back.

All right, back to the show.

I want to know, speaking of all these little things, Taika, what's it like, you seem, we don't know each other that well, we met once and it was such a highlight of my life meeting you, I'm such a huge fan, I've seen all your movies, I love Jojo Rabbit, I've seen it like three times.

Taika has no recollection.

No, of course not.

It was a highlight for me as well.

It was a chill, like normal, down to earth, what do you do?

He just mentioned. he's married, by the way, so just fucking cool it.

What do you do when you meet a personality that's totally opposite of yours, that you have to work with, you're like, oh my god, this guy or this girl is way too much for me, they're not on my level, how do you deal with that?

I just bitch about them later.

You send all your notes in through the first AD?

I go home and I'm like, this son of a bitch, I can't believe this guy.

it's just fucking hard work,

they're just fucking pain in the ass. And then each actor's got a different way of working. that you've got to find out, because they won't tell you, and you've got to figure it out by watching them. and you're like, oh, you're one of them.

One for me now, right?

Yeah, and those guys, I talk about this a lot.

The crew loves that.

They go, let's do an intro. take, I'm like, fuck, alright.

Are you at the point, though, in your career where you're just like, I'm going to handpick the people I want,

the actors, the producers, all those people. It's just people you trust and you frame.

What were you going to say, Taka?

Oh, about the improvising. You fucking roll the camera and then a lot of actors' idea of improvising or ad-libbing is just, say, the first thing that comes into your head. It doesn't have to help the scene at all. They go, action, they go, cool, wall.

Ian Morris texted me out of the blue today just so I can get a mention in on Ian, who co-wrote Next Goal Wins. He's our mutual friend.

It's about soccer, yeah? And, Willie, what do you play in the film?

Nothing. Taka asked me last minute to come in and just do a couple days to help out.

Small little role, but he makes a huge difference. The film is about, it's a true story, about the worst soccer team in the world, which was the American Samoan soccer team. And in the history of the country they'd never won a game or scored a goal. Wow. And I think, like in 2001 or something, they suffered the biggest international loss, which is still the record today, which was against Australia, and they lost 31-0..

Jesus.

Let's figure that out. What is that, a goal every three minutes?

Was anybody in the goal? Was there a goaltender?

There was a guy in the goal. I think he was quite traumatized by that.

And they lost to the Socceroos, who is not the best soccer team in the world.

And then they got this coach in, Thomas Rongan. I think he might have been the only person who responded to the request. He came into the island and got them into shape, and then they ended up, spoiler,

and it was a big deal. And that person, the guy playing that part, is Michael Fassbender, who is a fantastic dude.

That man is gifted.

Brilliant actor. And it was funny because he's done so many serious, really heavy, he's got a new serious movie coming out soon as well.

He's someone you can improve on. He's very good.

He's a smart dude.

He's so good in the killer too, the Fincher film.

And so you have Fassbender in there in a very comedic role.

Yeah. And I didn't think it would be that his role would become as comedic. I thought that everyone else around him would provide the comedy. But he kept delivering and just gave him more things to do.

Was it twisting arms to get him in that film? Because he's much more interested in racing cars right now.

He's a race car driver. He was doing that when I called him up.

You had to fit it in between races?

Yeah.

He said,

well, I'm thinking about taking the year off and just racing.

He's legit. And I said,

well, it's in Hawaii. And he said, I'll be there.

He's got this love. Fassbender's got one of those,

This is a real Steve McQueen life.

Yeah, it's a real Steve McQueen life.

Cool. He's channeled that whole life. He's stolen that whole life. He raced Le Mans last year.

Yeah, yeah.

Fucking A.

It changes. I've got a certain number of days I can stay in each place.