Patience Is the Key to Lasting Wealth

Hi Liddell, how are you? How are you doing today, Mr. Ramsey? Better than I deserve?

How can we help? Sir? I just had a quick question recently, just got my car repossessed. Yes, sir. And I'm trying to see what's my next course of action. I've been watching you guys for a while.

I'm just trying to see my next course of action. How can I come back from that? Pretty much wow. So you just woke up and it was gone out of the driveway.

No, sir, I actually seen them when they actually pulled it. Okay, all right, that is an emotional experience, isn't it?

Yes, sir, it feels like somebody's stealing something. Yes, sir, Yes, sir. I think that's why these repo guys get so much crap off of the customers. Because they're like slipping up in your driveway, taking your stuff out of your driveway.

It's dangerous. It's wow, I'm sorry, man. So how much was the car payment?

The car payment was about 584 bucks. How much did you owe on the car?

It was about three, maybe three grand on it, I definitely went over maybe 100 days on it. $3,000 is all you owed. Yes, sir, oh wow.

And what was the car worth?

From what my documents I'm looking at, I believe in the range of about 20 grand or something like that. Oh so, you had bought this car, almost paid it off or put a bunch down. So what happened that you were not able to make the payment? Tell us what happened in your situation.

Really, negligence on me. And I lost my job in November, which was my main means of employment, so that I could pay the bill. But I lost that job in November of 2023. From there, just covering my other stuff and just really just neglecting the bill. Almost, I would say, How long ago did this happen?

They pulled it like a week or two ago. Okay, have you talked to them about paying it off and picking it up? Yes, sir, I have, and they had told me that I would have to pay the full amount.

The $3,000.

The $3,000 plus what the car owed on the car, which was I think the amount they told me, was like 21 if I wanted to recover. Oh, you're saying so, I see. So the missed payments were $3,000, you were behind $3,000..

Yes, sir, I see okay, but you owe 21 and the car's worth 20..

It was at like 18 before they added the fee. Yeah, but you owe as much as it's worth. Yes, sir, okay, got it?

Oh man, are you back to work? are you doing anything? What are you driving in the last two weeks?

Nothing right now, because I just I didn't have anything pretty much saved up for another means. Are you single?

Yes, sir. Okay, all right. So you've been sitting at home for two weeks. How are you getting around?

Well, I've really just been applying for jobs and if anything came up, I could like Uber or something like that at the moment. But what are you doing for work and what are you earning currently? I was working at GameStop.

That was like my last recent job, but I just recently wasn't even there anymore. I only was working for like two days a week. You know, something like this, by choice or because they didn't have the hours.

Just didn't have the hours I would say, I just came in on the job. Okay, what about now?

Now I'm not working at all. Listen, if I'm you, you know. I do think that everybody kind of has an ideal work situation in their mind of something that they're shooting for. And sometimes you can hold off, thinking I'm just going to hold off until I get the job that I want. But in your case, you can't afford. You literally can't afford to do that for many reasons. Your self-confidence, and you know, you need cash, like there's many reasons to take any job until you get the job.

And one of those things is self-confidence. The more you sit at home, the more you're going to feel some type of way about yourself and what you're able to accomplish. But if you go out and get any job and take the first job number one. It puts a little money back in your pocket, gives you a little boost of feeling good about yourself. Like, do you have a friend that works? Construction Liddell.

No sir, not that. I know I have a friend that works like the railroad companies and stuff like that. Maybe, yeah, call him and ask him if they'll put you on. And he can give you a ride to work for two weeks till you can get a check and get you a $1,000 car.

Yes, sir, okay, your car that got repoed, we'll circle back to. That is the least of your problems right now. I'm more worried about you eating and paying rent and keeping the lights on and getting your life back on track than having that stupid car.

It's kind of good that that car is going to be your gone because it was a real hanging over your head problem. So I'll go ahead and give you the full answer on the car, so you know what you're looking at. But let's focus 99 of your efforts on finding a ride to work and getting some kind of work going 50, 60, 70 hours a week right now. Go crazy, man, and make you some quick, easy money somewhere, just working like a maniac and bum rides off of friends for two weeks. And then go get you or catch an Uber, whatever you got to do. But then go get you a $1,000 or $1,500 car and pay cash for it, okay?

Is that a plan? Yes, sir, definitely a plan. Now the other car, we're just going to let them have it, okay.

And then here's what's going to happen. They're going to sell it on a repo lot you owe 21 with all the fees, they're going to sell it for 12, 14,000, okay?

That's going to be six months from now, maybe. And then they're going to come knocking on the door, not literally, but they're going to send you notes and start threatening you. That you owe them the difference. It's called the deficit 21, minus whatever they sell it for, let's call it 14, so you owe them seven.

Okay, when they do that, they will settle that for about 20 cents on the dollar. So you probably could settle that old bad debt, the deficit on the repo, for somewhere around 1,500 bucks when it comes due. Okay, I'm not going to be far off.

It might be a thousand, it might be 2,000, but it's somewhere in that range, it's not. You're not going to owe them $10,000, they're going to come at you for seven to $10,000, but you can settle that for pennies on the dollar. You understand what I'm saying? Yes, I understand.

But in the meantime, obviously, and that's probably going to be a year before you hear from them on that. Okay, so we're going to put that repo, as nasty as it is in the back of your mind. And try to get to work and get your current life straightened out as fast as you possibly can. Here, I think that's what's going to matter, is what Jade said.

Because the way you feel about yourself and the sense of desperation, the knot in your stomach and knot in your throat. I've been there, man, it's no fun, it's terrorizing, terrifying. And so, yeah, I want you to get some cash coming in that place. Then go get you a little beat-up car that's reliable and get your life started back. And then pile up some cash to get ready for when they come at you later on this, this is the Ramsey show.

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Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us America. We're glad you are here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jay is with us in New York City.

Hi Jay, how are you? Hi Jay? I mean, Hi Dave, Hi Jade.

How are you doing? doing good? good man, good to have you. How can we help?

Well, so I'll just give you a little background story. I'm, like, more than four years removed from college, graduated with an engineering degree, working out here in New York as a GC.

And yeah, I moved out my parents house mainly because of taking your advice. Wanted to set out in the world and make sure I'm not freeloading all right? So my question today is, in doing that, I don't know if I prematurely bought a property.

I ended up buying a one-bedroom a few years after.

Renting my first place. And now I've been, you know, getting hit with increases on like maintenance and HOA payments and just been hit with an assessment.

And so I'm just wondering how I can cash flow this assessment that's kind of been set before me a couple days ago. The amount's like $16,000 for what?

So I think in New York, we're doing a.

Most buildings do, like a local law 11 like facade restoration for like, older buildings. Because I bought a pre-war.

And so that's kind of what they.

We owe, like a contractor, I think, for the building, does, like $600,000, and they're saying our maintenance payments aren't enough to compensate that. Mm-hmm. So before they hired the contractor, they did not get this approved by the HOA.

Because, I mean, if you hire the contractor for money you don't have, and you're running the HOA, then you gotta know that you're getting ready to slap the occupants with an assessment.

So you had no notice of this before now? Yeah, so, I mean, when I bought the place, I, you know, in my due diligence, tried to ask about, you know, the finances of the building. Because it looked like this work was underway. Even when I bought it two years ago.

And, you know, when I was in the process of doing that, I wasn't notified that this was like a potential. And you know, I raised the red flag, you know, I listened to your advice occasionally on, like, high hoas, low hoas. And I raised the red flag because it did seem pretty high.

But, you know, kind of shopping around, it seemed.

What do you make? The lower end $98,000? Okay, what's the unit worth today?

Based off like the last, probably like $150,000.

Okay, and what do you owe on it?

I put like $25,000 down, I owe like $100,000, okay, but you haven't had it. You haven't actually looked at comparable sales lately.

Where'd you get the $150,000?

Um, I assumed, based off what the actual value was when I got it two years ago, yeah, that ain't got anything to do with the value today. I mean, it could be worth $250,000 and you wouldn't know it based on that. No, I wouldn't know.

Yeah, you need to do some research and find out what they actually could sell for today.

Because it sounds like it might be a good idea to sell it because everything you've described about this has not been fun. Yeah, all I've heard, every mention of this was, well, I probably bought something I shouldn't have bought. Well, it's a problem. Well, I thought there was a thing on the front end and a bunch of HOA fee increases, and then they hit me with the assessment.

Every single time, your voice is just.

Talking about your voice just sounds whipped. I mean, you sound like God, man. I'm just this thing's awful. It's consuming a lot of your calories, isn't it?

It is, I've also like, been renovating the place, getting it up to the 21st century.

Because I'm in the GC world, so I've been using my resources there to.

How much does it take to finish it, to get it ready to put on the market and sell it?

Well, I want to renovate the kitchen next, so.

No, I don't want you to renovate the kitchen next. Is it torn up right now?

No, okay, so you could put it on the market today. Yeah, what's wrong with selling it?

There's a stipulation here, when I sell it, there's a flip tax, they like to call it. Where I think a certain percentage of the sale goes back to the building. What percentage, I would say around 40, is in my head right now? Oh, bullcrap.

That's crazy. Yeah, that didn't happen.

No, you're confused, okay? You need to dig in and find out what's really going on here. You got all these demons running around your head and none of them got a name. So you need to get some clarity on some of the information.

There's not a 40 kickback to the building when you sell a condo or a co-op in New York City. I mean, it's just not. Now. They're probably going to get the 16k out of the closing from the assessment to be able to do the transfer. But you at least got rid of the problem then, so I think you need to do some investigation.

It doesn't sound like you want to sell it, because when I brought it up, you're like, So I don't know, I can't tell with you. But he also didn't say how much money he's put in so far. Yeah, it doesn't matter to me. It sounds like there's nothing here.

That's fine, it's a pre-war building, it's all screwed up. They're redoing the facade, he's telling them to redo the kitchen.

It's redo, redo, redo, redo, redo, and extra fees, extra fees, extra fees, extra fees, extra fees. This thing sounds like a money pit. So I mean, you do what you want to do, man. But I got to tell you all, real estate is not a good deal.

Real estate as a category is a good idea, but there's some serious dogs in the pound here, and this one sounds like it could be on the list. So it's either that or you start scratching together money, pay the 16, and then scratch together the money and do the kitchen, but you don't do the kitchen until you take care of the 16..

But after you do the kitchen and the 16, you're still going to face the 40 kickback. If that's really there, I don't think it is. I think you're confused.

And after you do that, then there's going to be something else. And it sounds like this HOA is poorly run, so expect other increases and other situations to come at you here because you bought into a mess. It sounds like, so, either live with the expectation that this is a constant flow of money, or get out.

Do one of the two, do one of the two. But you can't live there and then act like you're surprised anymore. There's nothing here that's surprising anymore. The pattern is established.

Absolutely, I'd get out instantly. And if he doesn't make any money off of it, then it's a lesson learned. Yep, our question of the day comes from Caitlin in Arkansas.

She says I'm a divorced mom to two boys and my ex doesn't provide any help financially. I work from home and earn about $40,000 a year and have the proceeds from the sale of our home. And a HYSA, from which I draw about $15,000 a year. My only debt is $16,000 on my car and my payment is $260 a month. I could earn more if I got a job outside of the home.

But with child care for kids, it would end up being a wash. I have $50,000 in savings and that earns me about $3,000 a year. The kids need clothes and shoes, and all their activities add up so quickly. I don't want them to not be able to pursue their interest between rent, a few streaming services, food, car payments and insurance. I just can't make it all work without drawing regularly from the house money, which I need to keep for security and comfort.

How do single parents budget? That's a good question number one single moms are superheroes and single dads are superheroes. I don't know how you guys do it. I'd be asking about child support number one.

That's my first question, why isn't this guy paying? He's got kids, have a judge help him with his attitude on that. And number two, looking for something that you can do part-time from home while you're home with the kids?

In addition to this, and kids activities are not necessary for life, even if they think they are. So that's way down on the list. It's interesting you put those before your food, car payment and so forth.

So I would pick up the every dollar budget and get started on a detailed type budget, and I think you're going to find some money. This is the Ramsey show.

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Ted Walsh, our Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Stephen is with us in Dallas. Hi Stephen. welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, thank you for taking my call, sure, what's up? So my wife and I are getting ready to kind of go through a life transition. My wife is a teacher and she's wanting to stay home next year to be with our almost one-year-old Yay.

So we're just, yeah, we're both really excited. We're just trying to figure out what we can do to kind of prepare ourselves for it. A little bit of background.

We took a little bit of, like, some financial course when we did a marriage prep through our church, but it didn't really go in-depth in finances. And so after that, I kind of took the reins of finances. And we're new listeners. So after a couple episodes, I realized, Oh, it shouldn't be me doing all of this, and then we talked about it. We both want to get on the same page with our finances and get out of debt and kind of get ready.

So we're just trying to figure out what we can do. So, do you have an every dollar budget? We do not. Okay, that's step one, and we'll make sure we get you hooked up with the information you need on that.

But what I would start with is I'd open up my every dollar budget. And if I know it's going to just be your income, I'm going to start doing the budget with just your income. And see where you land. And that's going to give you a picture of what life is going to be like. With one income, that's step one, okay, and so what do you earn right now?

A joint we're at about $110,000.

Myself, I'm at about $67,000.

Okay, what does she do?

You said she's a teacher, didn't you? Yes, she's a teacher. Yeah, okay, okay, so she's the other $57,000, basically, yeah.

Okay, and so then my next question is, what baby step are you guys on?

So we just started looking at that and we haven't started the baby steps, so we're still in conversation about it. But we have in debt right now, we're about $31,000 in debt. Okay, we have about $41,000 in savings. So we're talking about just using what we have in savings to wipe out our debt and then we'll be debt-free.

Okay, that's great. I would go with that plan, I mean, that is our plan, so you guys need to talk about that and get on board with that same plan. But if you're asking for our advice, it is that I'd say, take that $41,000, clear out the debt that leaves you $10,000 left and add whatever you need to that.

To call it six months of expenses. If you're going down to one income, I would definitely, you know, we say save up three to six months. In your case, there's one income. You've got a new baby, I'm saving up six months of expenses. Between now and when. You're making this transition, and that would be my plan. And then, of course, you have to look and see, Okay, what does this mean?

Looking at the budget, what does this mean for us? Because life is going to change. You're living on half of what you were living on, which is a big deal, right?

Are you homeowners?

So we are, we're actually in the process of selling our house. When we found out we were pregnant, we kind of fell into the trap of, oh, yeah, we need to go buy a house. But we definitely overbought. And so we got a good deal on a rental that we're really happy with and we're wanting to kind of settle in here. And then, once we get finances a little bit more situated and we're both on the same page, then we look at the housing market again.

What are you going to make on the sale? anything?

We're not sure yet, we're hoping to break even and just kind of clear the note. Okay, but we had a meeting with our realtor yesterday and yeah, that's kind of the best hope we have right now. Stephen, you're making really good, big decisions to be able to hit the big goal of her being at home.

So, you know, you're looking for more information? You looked online, you talked to us, you're gathering up, you're considering talking about paying off the debt.

You're learning to work together. You put the house on the market because we can't afford it on my salary, and you'd be at home. Because this doesn't work, the math doesn't work. So you're doing all the right things, you're making all the right moves.

There's a lot of wisdom in every move I see you making. So keep all of that up and we'll have Christian pick up. We'll get you signed up for the everydollar premium. Folks, that's our world-class budgeting app. It helps you manage money the Ramsey way.

It's iOS, Android online. SmartDollar is free if you want to start it out that way, and you can immediately see where you stand. Get organized, personalize your budget, stop overspending.

Save more money if you wanted to connect to your bank and drop your debit card stuff directly into your budget. It's very smooth and very easy, there's a small charge for that. And that's the Everydollar premium process. So if you're new, we're going to give you a long-term financial roadmap in everydollar Track Your net worth.

Track your debt-free date, track your retirement date, your baby step progress, and we're going to proactively coach you through this. So it's an app on iOS, an app on Android or desktop. At Everydollar.com, go get it for free.

We're going to give it to you, Steven and help you guys hit that goal of your wife being at home with the babies, which is where you're wanting to be, and we want to help you get there if that's your goal. That's what this does, so what it amounts to is this? Okay? Budget is a cuss word.

People use the budget like it's a cuss word. I don't want to be on a budget because budget, as Rachel says, budget people aren't fun, but all budget is a punishment. That's what I used to think.

But for an adult, that puts what numbers they want to put on their budget. The budget's not telling them what to do. They're telling their budget what to do to accomplish goals that matter more than their short-term Friday night feelings.

And so all a budget is is you're doing your money on purpose. That's all it is. And so John Maxwell says a budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went. That's all it is, and you get to decide.

If you want your budget to be punishment, you can decide that if you want your budget to have a lot of wiggle room, you can decide that. You write down what numbers you want to write down. But what we found is that people when they start writing it down, they go, Eh, that's kind of stupid. I don't need to do that.

And you start making judgment calls as soon as you're writing it down. You know, I got it, we got it, we got to back off on that. That's ridiculous.

When you actually look at the numbers, the numbers will yell at you and tell you to straighten your act up, you know? And so I don't have to tell you all that stuff and the budget doesn't tell you anything. It's like, when you're four years old and you're fighting with your sister, you're not the boss of me.

Remember that you're not the boss of me. Well, the budget is not the boss of you. You're the boss of the budget. Until you get it built and you're building it to be the boss of you, but you're the boss of the boss.

So you're good, everything's good, so check it out every dollar, it'll get you going. All the correlation of all the data we have of 30 years of doing this, 10 million people going through Financial Peace University. The ones that do a zero-based budget, every dollar has an assignment before the month begins and agree on it with your spouse are the ones that achieve their financial goals.

No one accidentally wins the Super Bowl. winning is not an accident. It's a series of intentional acts, and that's what this is win-win.

Hey, if you want to check out the premium version, you can put in everydollar.

Com slash Jade and I'll give you $15 off a premium. I still need a slash. you've got a slash. Still, how did that happen? I don't know.

We have a Jade slash, we need a Dave slash. How much should my slash be worth? Oh, I'll go with, should it be more or less?

I think yours should be totally.

She's got her name after the slash. your name is before the slash, my name's before the slash, thank you.

That's right. Ramsey. Solutions. Okay, funny, all right.

So Jade has a slash after my name, there we go. My ego feels better already, feeling better already, I think I'm going to survive now.

So, Jade, you've been doing these webinars, you and George and Rachel a lot on building out your every dollar budget. What's the question you're getting in the comments? Because we take questions live during the webinars. What are y'all getting the most about putting together? Is it still people feel like the budget is bossing them around?

Not really. We kind of identified four main questions, and the first one is, how do I even get started? A lot of people are feeling the tension of I don't feel like I make enough money to make a budget. And you kind of spoke to that, which is, yeah, let the numbers talk and tell you what you need to do.

Because for some of us, if it feels that way.

You might need an extra job, you need an extra job, or some of us just need to pull back on the lifestyle that we've had. And that's what's eating up all your money.

And so kind of walking people through the zero-based budget and how you're giving each dollar an assignment. And be open to what the numbers tell you. There we go, that's how that works. This is the Ramsey show.

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Jade Walshall Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Thanks for being with us. America. Luke is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi Luke, welcome to the show.

Hello, hi, how are you better than I deserve? How can we help?

So I can kind of use a unique situation here. 22 years old, household income of $90,000. We inherited six acres of land and decided to build a house on it. We don't have any debt, we have not taken any loans on the house.

I built it so far, where you've got the roof, walls and siding, and almost done with utilities. But our goal is that I pay for all the bills, and then my wife, she pays for all the materials for the house. My question is, should I take what's excess of my income after the bills and throw it towards the house or put it towards retirement?

OK, you're trying to build a house out of your pocket and so far you have, but you and your wife have separate finances.

Well, we've worked together for finances, but not really, not really. You've delegated part of it to her and part of it to you. You don't have one pile, so you need one pile of money.

Her money, your money, is our money, one big pile out of that pile. What is our first goal? I would assume it's to finish the house, isn't it? Yes, sir.

So what does it take to finish the house? Money-wise? How much money we're looking at? probably about 10 grand left. We got drywall, insulation, paint.

OK, how long? If you pile all your money, you and your wife, our money in one pile? How long does it take you to come up with 10 grand?

Well, probably a month or two. Yeah, OK, so let's finish the house. And then you need to make sure you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. And then take 15 of your household income, our income, and start that towards retirement.

That's baby step four, but you're gonna be living in a paid-for house, that's nice, that's awesome, you got this acreage and you built the house.

You got a lot of sweat in it and you're gonna have a bunch of equity, right? Oh yeah, for sure. What's this finished product gonna be worth? Acreage and house total we're hoping for $250,000..

Good, very cool, and you said, you're 26, 22, 22, wow.

OK, wow. And your household income, if we put both of your money in one pile, is how much a year? 90,000? how much? 90,000..

90,000.

That's the two of you combined. OK, good, I make 62, she makes 28. Ok, cool.

Perfect, yeah. So let's take 15 of 90,000 after we get the emergency fund in place. And you're sitting on a $250,000 house. You're gonna be millionaires before you're 30..

Woo, that's exciting, not fun. I hope they take your advice and put their money in one pile. Well, that's the thing.

Yeah, so there's, yeah, there's just so much data that says when you do that, that your higher probability of winning at marriage, winning at relationship, winning at everything. And let's circle back and say this nothing to do with Luke's call, but just this. Because we get so much bull crap on social media about telling people to put their money together. You should be independent. No, you shouldn't be independent if you're married.

That's a dumb butt idea. This is how your marriage doesn't work because you're so strung out on you that you're worthless as a spouse. So that's the problem. So no, you don't need to be independent.

You need to be one, the preacher said, and now you are one.

One uno, unity, all in one. And so if we know, and we do know that the data tells us, in America today, the number one cause of divorce is money fights and money problems.

The number one solution to that is learning to dream together and put our money together and handle our problems and our challenges, and our opportunities and our dreams together. That is the solution where you don't have money. Problems cause divorce. If we have the solution to the number one cause of divorce, why are you arguing with us? That's just dumb.

Because people out there are dumb and we will always have a show for that reason, so there it is. Not all people out there are dumb, but enough of them are dumb. But we will always have this show. Are they dumb, Dave, or do they do dumb things?

They're ignorant. Ignorance is different than dumb. That's good. Ignorance is I don't know how. There's things I'm ignorant of, by the way.

I don't know how I used to know when I was a young redneck. I used to know how to work on a car, but now a car looks like a spaceship. When I open the hood, and so I can't even I don't know if I could jump the thing, get a jumper cable on it nowadays without blowing it up.

So, you know, um, so, but I don't know how to work on that car. I. It doesn't mean I'm dumb, it means I'm ignorant, I don't know how to do that, but then don't argue with experts when you're ignorant.

Cause it makes you look dumb.

I'll take that dude, I'll take that holy wow. And Luke was doing none of that. Luke's a sharp young guy at 22 man.

He's got it going on, doesn't he? Yeah, oh, most definitely. I don't. Even I was nowhere near that.

So talk about it. Jason was in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi Jason, how are you? hey guys?

How are y'all? Can y'all hear me? Okay, yes, what's up?

Good, hey, I just got a quick question for you. Um, I'll give you a quick, uh quick rundown on the situation. I'm trying to decide if I should sell my house. I, uh, live about an hour outside of the Carolina Metros right now.

I'm planning to make a move this summer. Um, I'm self-employed at sell real estate and, uh, so my new market. I'm going to have to, um, kind of start from the ground up. Um, I'm near the end of baby step two. Um, if this move wasn't happening, I'd be done probably by June or July, uh, maybe August.

Um, the flip side, uh. So the question is basically, where are you going to live when you move? I'm going to rent, okay, and so your question is whether to keep your house or not.

Yeah, oh, so unique to this. No, just just sell. Yeah, you don't need to be a renter and be a landlord.

That's fast backwards. That was risky, Dave, That was very risky. That's, uh, what I needed to know, yeah.

I mean, really, think about it, that's backwards, you don't want to do that, so no, you need to, um, get, get, uh, you know, you're in the real estate business, you're going to get plenty of opportunities to own a property and live in a house that you pay cash for. And or buy it and then get it paid off as quick as you can.

Hanging onto this boat anchor that represents your former life out in the Burbs. When you're moving into the metro and having to deal with that while you're trying to learn to sell real estate and trying to get your business moving, nah.

Yeah, that's where my mind was, and I thought that was right. I just wanted to make sure, yeah.

You were, you're right on track, man, you're right on track, so there you go, here's the thing, it's interesting.

Um, real estate is such a an emotional topic because it has these two strange elements to it. strange element number one is. It is an excellent way to build wealth when you do it right as a part of your long-term plan, right? That then gets confused with. It's always smart, no matter what, that's a good point, Dave.

And it's not sometimes real estate. Doing a real estate deal in the wrong situation in your life could be not. You know, in Jason's, it's just it's just a bad idea, but in other people's, it's even way over into the stupid zone. Yeah, for sure, and so real estate is, it's weird.

It is because it's a blessing when you do it right, that gives everybody permission to do it even wrong, and it becomes a curse. Yeah, and I think also the other thing that I think we're fighting now is so many people had properties that they locked in at a better interest rate. And so then when life moves them, they feel like, Yeah, it's a good deal.

Maybe I shouldn't get rid of it, even though I'm moving, I should keep it. It's like this weird attachment to it. It's like, because real estate is good, I can't. Everything I do with it is going to be smart, right?

It just falls in line and it's like, No, it's not going to be smart, you know, it's not smart the only way that, you know, no. There's a good time to cut real estate loose, there's a good time for it to not be there.

And buying, buying real estate you can't afford, buying a house you can't afford. We had that earlier in the hour, that's right.

So we've got to sell the house, as mom wants to come home and not be a teacher and be a full-time mom. That's cool, but we got to sell the house. We bought a house we can't afford.

It's not a blessing anymore, that's right, it's a curse. It's a problem, yes.

So doing it wrong, or keeping it wrong, or because real estate's good, it's not always good. yeah, because, and it's not that real estate is actually. real estate is always good. It's the life situation you're in doesn't match up with owning real estate, right then, and so it's not always good to keep your old house and rent it.

Matter of fact, it seldom is. Yeah, very seldom. This is the Ramsey show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jay Washall, Ramsey personality, number one, best-selling author of the Ramsey Quick Read. Money is not a math problem. The real reason you're broke and what to do about it. She's my co-host today. The phone number is 888-825-5225..

Renee is in Nashville. Hi Renee, how are you? I am doing better than I deserve. Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. How can I help? I'm really glad that you took my call and hi, Jade, hi.

I have a lot of plants, too, yes.

So my thing is that I'm needing some clarification on how to get a mortgage through Churchill Mortgage with a manual underwriting and everything without having a credit score. So, background. I will be debt-free in August. I have $7,500 left to pay off on my consumer debt out of $22,074.75. And it will be done with baby Step 3 before January 25. And I will be starting to pay my house off, and by my calculations, I will have the house paid off in two years.

So 2027 the house will be paid off.

I want to move, I hate my house, I hate everything about it, including the location. I should have never bought the house.

And it was actually a curse to me in the beginning because I did not have my three to six-month emergency fund saved up. And Murphy came in in a big, huge storm. Everything had to replace so many things in the house and I know better now now. I know I will make a profit when I sell the house, but I'm probably going to have to get a mortgage. Considering I don't know what the market is going to be doing. What will you when you sell the house? what will you come away with?

I don't know, maybe about $200,000, maybe. And then what would you want to purchase the next house for? What's your range? It's two years from now.

Yeah, this is about two and a half years from now, maybe three. Because I really want to renovate, because I would be embarrassed to sell this house to anybody. You've got a little journey here, you've got a little timeline in front of you, so your biggest fear is, is this true? Jade and Dave? Can you actually buy a house with a zero credit score when the time comes?

Is that your question? Yes, and I have been listening to George Campbell's book, by the way. Please tell him. He did an amazing job on the audiobook. Absolutely love it in the book. He said that he bought a house with zero credit score and the interest rate that he got was the same interest rate that somebody with a perfect credit score would get.

That's true, that's right. Same here, by the way. And on a 15-year fixed rate, which tends to get you a better interest rate as well. So it's all true.

It's absolutely all true. Just know if you're doing zero credit score manual underwriting, I mean, there's limitations. You can't just borrow to the moon and back, right? So going in with some cash and then adding whatever you're going to add to that, that's great. And I think it's one of those things. I'll be honest with you, when I entered the Baby Steps Renee, there were a couple of things that I pushed back.

It was like my logic just hadn't caught up yet. It was very hard for me to accept that you can actually buy a car in cash, and it was very hard for me. I remember being like, Dave, don't let me down because I'm about to have zero credit score and I want to know that this works.

And there is part of that that you just walk through the process. And even though you've heard everybody say it and say it and say it until you experience it for yourself, then you go, Oh my gosh, this really does work, this is real, people do this. That's what scares me is not having a credit score.

I'm never buying, I'm never getting credit cards again. See, here's the thing, here's the thing. Okay, when you say out loud what scares me is not having a credit score, what you're really saying is, I'm worried that I won't have a good life without debt.

Okay, it's the same thing because there's only one thing the credit score is used for, and that's getting debt.

So I'm worried I can't have a good life without debt, that's what you're saying when you're saying, I'm worried about not having a credit score now. What you do need to do on a technical basis is make sure you don't have any open accounts, even with zero balances.

So if you've got old credit cards that are still open but zero balances, you need to close the account completely. Because an open account dinging that ringing the bell over at the credit bureau is going to keep your score there even if it's a zero balance. So you need to close all debt accounts completely down, including the 7500 one as soon as it's gone, you need to make sure it's closed.

And then it takes them about a quarter, maybe two quarters, to notify the credit bureau that the account no longer exists. And when you have no active credit accounts of any kind, about six months later, typically your credit score, it becomes indeterminable or zero. And that is the goal. And what I decided because I didn't have a choice, you had a choice because I went broke. Was that the Great Fico is not worthy of my adoration? The Great Fico is not worthy of my worship?

And I don't need to bring the Great Fico God offerings of interest and other stupid things to have a good life. Don't worship at false idols because this is a false idol, it does not provide you. It's not an indication you're good with money, it's not an indication of your net worth, it's not an indication of your income. 100 of the variables in the algorithm that create a Fico score have to do with your interaction with debt.

That's right, how much debt you have, what kinds of debt you have, what percentage of the debt available to you that you're using, how long you've had the debt. It's all how much you've been playing kissy-face with the bank, that's what it is, and so you could get a million-dollar inheritance. It doesn't change your Fico score one dime.

You could get a million-dollar raise at work. It doesn't change your Fico score one dime. So the point is, it is not a measure of financial health. It is a measure of how much you've been playing kissy-face with the bank, how much debt you love.

That's an i-love-debt score. an i-love-debt-thoroughly is what an 800 score says. It says. I have paid them so much interest because I just love banks, I think they're awesome and I want to give them my money. That's what an 800 score says.

That's right, it's a hallmark card to the banking industry.

Instead, I want to give them a salute.

This is the Ramsey show.

Jade Walshall Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. I'm trying to think now it's been probably two years ago. My buddies over at the Daily Wire called me and said, Hey, want to have dinner? A buddy of ours named Vivek Ramaswamy is in town and you need to know this guy.

And I'm like, Okay, if you say I need to know him, we'll go have dinner. So we all got together, had a lengthy dinner, had a great conversation. Next thing I look up, the guy's running for president. So, but you did come on the show before that, after that and talk about your book, Woke Capitalism, right? Yeah, Woke, Inc.

Was my first book? Woke, Inc. Yep, Woke, Inc. Yeah, that was it. And because you were working on a whole movement in the hedge fund world and in the mutual fund world to offset some of the woke stuff that's happening on Wall Street. But then I look up and you're out there making a very interesting run.

We had some email interactions just personally back and forth. While you're out there doing that stuff, that's got to be quite an adventure to be out there. Oh yeah, bumping heads with Nikki. I know Nikki too.

She sat here too, and with, of course, President Trump and everybody else and all the different players that were involved. It was very interesting, it was eye-opening. And I think the thing I learned from traveling this country, Dave, is that we're taught to believe that we're divided.

And that's what I thought going into this race, I'd say my most positive learning coming out of it is that. If you actually talk to human beings from New York to California, to the Midwest, as opposed to talking heads, yeah, as opposed to digital impressions of human beings, if you talk to actual human beings. 80 of us in this country share the same values in common right now.

And I think half the 20 that we think are on the other side are people who are younger than me, who never learned those values in the first place. Who I think will come along. Believing in free speech, meritocracy, the pursuit of excellence, the rule of law, just basic rules of the road. That regardless of race or political affiliation, for that matter, Democrat or Republican. Even 80 plus percent of us in this country, I think, still are united around certain basic principles. And I don't say that in some cheesy kind of way, it was, I think, a surprise to me. You go into this from the world of cable news and digital and social media. Creating the artifact of division that I don't see actually existing in real American homes and interactions.

So the question is, how do we call the bluff on that division? I tried to do some of calling a lot of bluffs on the campaign, of the media and of, I think, a lot of government dishonesty. That's left this country worse off. But I'm hopefully proud of what we began and we're going to continue it in other ways. One of the things I've talked about from stage in our events for many years and it always gets a cheer, regardless of political affiliation, is the idea that if you can get out of that and get on a plan and increase your generosity, the things you can do. And I can show some examples of when an entire community does this.

How many St. Jude hospitals we can build, with, how many foster children get a home? When we the people start taking care of we the people, it becomes very inspiring. And the beautiful part about it is the byproduct of that is it puts the government out of business, it does.

The beauty of this country is we're the best country known to man to at least give people that opportunity. And every one of us has our own unique God-given gift, right? And I think that this is a country. We use a word like merit, I use that word a lot, but what does it mean? I think it's living as part of a system where everybody can achieve the maximum of their God-given potential without any government or any system. Standing in your way.

And that's what got us this far, 250 years into this country. It's what allowed me to live the American dream that I have and I want to pass it on. A system can be a negative system, racism, sexism. those are systems, and so without any system, not just a bureaucratic system, right? Yes, exactly.

Exactly, and that's the beauty of this country. And I'm an entrepreneur by background. Politics was new to me. I learned a lot about politics.

Not all of it was positive, but most of it, I would say, left me. I would say, a little more cynical, but a little bit more informed on the other side of it. I'm an entrepreneur by background, I start companies and so that's part of what I've gone back to. In the meantime is the world of entrepreneurship. And driving change through the private sector and changing this country for the better and meeting the needs of, I think, for example, you talked about woke capitalism.

One of the companies I had started before I ran for president was a company called Strive that competes directly against Blackrock and State Street and Vanguard. By standing for actual corporate purpose, companies should do what allows them to be most valuable, not pushing somebody else's social agenda. That's part of how we drive change in this country, too. Is it's not just going to be done through the government, but through our educational system, through the private sector as well. I think people can drive a lot of positive change, too.

And I'm trying to do that. In the meantime. Vivek Ramaswamy is with us. Jade Walsh is my co-host, Jade.

Yeah, I want to know. So, one of your 10 truths that you talk about is the idea that capitalism can lift people out of poverty. A lot of people would push back hard against that. They feel like capitalism is one of the things that's keeping them trapped, so talk about that a little bit.

Yeah, sure, and I want to distinguish between crony capitalism, which is a perversion of the real thing, and actual true capitalism, that's a good distinction. And it's important, right? Because many people who are earnestly frustrated with what they see as an oppressive system of capitalism isn't really the real thing.

It's this version where companies, through lobbying and other forms of non-competitive measures, are using the force of government to create barriers that stop them from achieving their dreams. You see this in the pharmaceutical sector. I mean, a lot of the lobbying results in less competition, which contributes to high prescription drug pricing. So when people say, I can't afford to buy my medicines, well, part of what they're having frustration with isn't capitalism, but the capture of a healthcare system that isn't working as efficiently as it should. You see in the health insurance marketplace, a lot of health insurers are not really not.

A lot of health insurance brokers aren't really serving up the right plans for their actual clients to select. But that's the product of crony capitalism, which is a perversion of the real system. And so my first distinction is I might share your same frustration I probably do. Companies should not use the government as a lobbying instrument to block competition.

Now, on the flip side, look at actual free market capitalism. The only way you're able to get ahead as an entrepreneur or as a business is. If you're providing something of value, of greater value to the person who's paying for it than it takes for it costing you to provide it. And that's fundamentally an other regarding activity, so if you're actually providing something of inherent value to somebody else, that is what's lifted people up from poverty. It's why U.S. stock market returns have outpaced European stock market returns for decades. Because their model of capitalism is to have capitalists try to take care of social issues.

Whereas the U.S. Model of capitalism is one that says, when companies are creating products and services that serve people and stay true to that mission. That actually creates wealth for everybody. Real capitalism is where profit is. The applause your customers give you exactly for having served them well, it's that simple.

It's that simple, and so, you know, money, or the making of money, when it's done in service of human beings. I haven't heard that line. I'm going to take that, though I like that.

When it's an act of service, one of our core values is here. If we help enough people at Ramsey, we don't worry about money. That's one of our core values. 14 core values on the wall.

It's one of them on the wall, all through the building here. And so our job is to make sure that we are a blessing, and then we can't keep the blessings from flowing at us. It's actually interesting you mentioned, it's even one of the pieces of advice I give to young people. You're talking about the customer side, even if you talk about the labor market or the job side of it.

Young person can't find a job? Here's my advice to them is show up somewhere and volunteer to work there. Make yourself so valuable and indispensable, such that when it comes time for you to find another opportunity to move on. They won't let you leave, they're going to actually pay you what you actually deserve.

And so it goes, whether you're an employee looking for a job, business, selling a product. I love that, do the right thing, bathe, smile, have some energy.

Bring it, add value, and you can't. They won't, they'll do anything, They're not going to let you go, they're not going to let you go. And that is to me, that's true. Capitalism is actually you provide something of value to somebody else, either as a worker or as a company, or whatever it is. Without the cronyism in government, the corruption that you see of lobbying the government to be able to mess with that competition.

That's true capitalism that lifts us up. There's such a distinction there that you speak about, and I agree with you. Why do you think it gets grouped together when we can see it so distinctly different? Yeah, well, I'll be candid on this.

I think that the Republican Party has assumed the mantle of standing for capitalism. But much of the Republican Party has been corrupted by some of the same forces of crony capitalism. Subsidies or favoritism, or corporate welfare. Such that somebody else earnestly saying, OK, you guys stand for capitalism, but you got the bailouts in 2008.

That happened under a Republican administration. The Republican President, Republican Treasury Secretary bailed out institutions that took on way more debt than they needed to way more leverage. You're not hearing the bump music. I got to go, brother.

Vivek Ramaswamy Check him out at Vivek G. Ramaswamy at Instagram and at X. Be sure and check him out. Thanks for stopping by my friend. thank you.

Good seeing you guys.

Jade Walshaw Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us America. Patrick is with us in Little rock. Hi Patrick. welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hey, thank you Dave and thank you Jade. I am really honored to call you guys today. This has been a long time thing that I've wanted to do is call in and ask for some advice. Of course, there's many times I needed to do that earlier, probably, but I'm kind of in a little bit of a situation.

Just recently, let me back up a little bit, my daughter. Two years ago, she was born with a very rare genetic disorder called Trisomy 13. She was very medically challenged. For a long time. We were not able to work, I was not able to work like I needed to.

And my wife was a stay-at-home mom, obviously.

She was very to the point where it was really bad because she had to constantly be suctioned and things like that in and out of the hospital. Pretty much, I would say 80 of the time.

They told us that we had two to four days, maybe with her at most. That was two-something years ago. She lived a long two-plus years up until recently, and she passed just January. Oh, I'm sorry, thank you.

God, though, is so good and his grace is so good. Two days before she passed, we found out we were expecting another baby.

God really knew what he was doing, because it's just the timing of everything that just gives glory to God. I think, anyways, we are in a situation right now.

Emotionally, we are obviously not where we should be. We are having a lot of issues and stuff.

It's something we have to still do and still continue to go on. Before she passed, though, I had been a paint contractor for probably about 13 years.

I've been wanting to get out of that for about three years of that time and do something different. I started on the side, a business doing excavation and stuff like that, and that is starting to take off. It's a little slow at first, but I didn't go out and get a bunch of debt. How much did you make in March? So in March we made about $2,000, which is just a side thing right now, so it's not.

If it's just a side thing, what's your main gig? My main gig is still painting, and I also do construction work and stuff on the work. So how much did you make total in March?

My income, not including my wife's, was probably about $3,500.

What does your wife make? $3,500? She makes $2,500 a month. And what's your question, Patrick?

So my question is, she is pregnant, obviously. And I'm wanting to know if I should just go out and get a full-time job and not worry about what I'm doing. Part-time. Both of my businesses are basically part-time. I guess I should say it like that. Can you get enough business? You have the emotional energy, with all you've been through, to get enough business to stay busy and make a living.

I believe I do.

Honestly.

So you can go from $3,500 to $4,500 and by the end of the year be at $5,500 a month average.

That's what I'm hoping for. If you believe you can do that, if you think you can do that, why would you go get a job?

That's exactly.

I mean, I've been battling this because I don't know, like, I want someone to just tell me, Hey, that's stupid. You got a baby coming because my wife is going to be quitting when? Well, to be fair, if you can make more and more and more money, that's good if a baby's coming, I know.

Well, and I was.

That's exactly what I'm thinking, too. But I have heard that it's not good sometimes to run with a side venture and not knowing what it's going to do. Honestly, I want to do that full-time. Well, you're combining the side one with your main one. Your main gig was the painting.

You were making X off of that and then you added the excavation to it. And to be fair in your own words, you haven't really had the time or resource or energy, or emotional energy to put 100 into this. And so now you're going to start being able to do that, and I think with the numbers, all of these are construction.

Yeah, you're in the construction business, you do excavation, you do painting, and you do some other construction work, right? Yes, sir. Yeah, just go do a whole bunch of it, man.

One wild card I did not mention I didn't have enough time to because my mind wasn't to the screener. But one thing that is the wild card in our case is we're actually.

Our house where we live at, we're actually living in a camper right now, not permanently, just temporarily, until we get our house built. We are building a house right now. Oh, Jesus.

And yes, yes, and I know what you say about building a house. And we did it wrong. But we're almost to the end of it and we're going to be happy with the result. But if I could. In retrospect, that doesn't change the answer about your business no.

I mean, if you're making $3,500 towards $4,500 towards $5,500 in your construction business. That's going to assist in a new baby coming, that's going to assist in finishing the house, that's going to assist in you running your life. If you go take a job making $3,000 a month period and you got a J-o-B, you're not going to make as much as if you go run this business well. But the honest question you have to do is you have to quit getting distracted by 63,000 things.

If you're working on a stupid house instead of earning money to feed your family, see that's a distraction. And so that house may slow way down while you speed this business up. Because, Patrick, if you've got the emotional energy with the tragedy you all have been through, to go get after it. On this business, you need to completely focus on stacking cash, making a big old pile of money. And if you all need to go rent an apartment and get out of the trailer because you got a pregnant wife, that's not a bad thing. And then take an extra year to finish a stupid house.

I'm fine, the house is the least of my worries. You grow in this career, take care of your family is the number one job. And if you don't have the emotional bandwidth to do that and get out of that trailer with a pregnant wife camping trailer, by the way, then you do need to go take a job. So, but the job is going to be less money than you could make if you can pull it together for the business.

I think so, too. I think he just needs to add a couple more services on there and just get after it. Do whatever work you can do. Just take everything and go and make a profit on all of it, and go and make a profit. And go and go and go. And you can clean up and decide what.

I don't want to do that kind of thing anymore later. But right now, you're doing it, swinging a hammer, swinging a brush, you know, digging a hole, whatever it is you're doing. Get it done and do a bunch of it all the time and charge a lot and smile and smile and go make you some money. There is nothing wrong with that.

All you're doing is taking care of people's problems.

But, you know, job one is baby and wife, job two is to grow your business, take care of them. Dealing with a stupid but construction house is way down the list of things you got to be worrying about right now. So if that thing sits nothing for a little while, I'm OK with that. But you don't, you know? You don't need to be over there working at night when you could be working at night, making money for your family.

So right now, you don't have the time, you don't have the bandwidth to be swinging a hammer on that job. You swing a hammer on somebody else's job. It's giving you money, so that's what we're going to focus on is making money. And the good news is, you're in a business that you just as soon as you start putting the word out. And you just tell people. And you just go get another one, then go get another one, then go get another one, you're gonna make a lot of money, that's right.

Oh yeah, people always need something done. Yeah, people always need some handiwork done. Whether it's put me some bathroom tiles in, change out my bathtub, there's always something that's going on.

Always, always, this is the Ramsey show.

Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. You do not have to lose sleep worrying about your money anymore. We want you to come to the Ramsey campus for the Total Money Makeover weekend on May 10th and 11th. And we're going to show you how to get control of your life. How would it feel to know that you're going to be out of debt? So that you could become wealthy, so that you could become outrageously generous? How would that feel?

What would that do for your relationships, for your hope? It's what we do, and we're going to do that Friday afternoon all day. Saturday, May 10th and 11th, the total Money Makeover weekend. Not only how to get out of debt, but how to become an investor and how to be generous, how to work with your spouse. Ken Coleman's going to be speaking on increasing your income, Dr.

John Deloney on Increasing your Peace. Jade Walsh. I'll be speaking, George Camel, Rachel Cruz and me, and so all of us, all the Ramsey personalities are going to be here. We're going to have lots of q&as.

It's going to be very experiential, and you're going to laugh, you're going to cry, and you're going to come away knowing you can do this. Bring your spouse that's reluctant, they will leave crazier than you are, bring your friend who thinks you're crazy, and they will leave really crazy doing this stuff.

It's going to be a lot of fun. Jade, I'm excited about this, I'm excited too. I can't wait. Our Platinum Plus tickets are already sold out.

You can still get a platinum ticket, a VIP ticket, or a general admissions ticket at RamseySolutions.

Com slash events suggest you get them now. May 10th and 11th is coming up really, really fast. It's here on the campus, at the Ramsey Event Center. I'm excited to get to do a total money makeover event right here in our own backyard. And excited that a bunch of you are coming from all over the place to be here.

You do not want to miss this event, it is life-changing. Grayson is with us in Nebraska. Hi Grayson, how are you?

Hi, good, how are you better than I deserve? How can I help? hi?

So my husband and I have been looking at our financial goals. And it's just looking like it's going to take a long time to get over some humps. And so my question is, basically, do I need to be patient? Or should we make changes? Well, tell us the timeline so we can chime in.

So I don't know the timeline exactly, but right now we have about $8,500 in our savings account, which is a little bit over our three-month savings. Okay, and we're wanting to save for a house we're renting right now, and I'm a stay-at-home mom.

My husband makes $57,500 right now, it's going to go up to $65,000 soon. Okay, and so you're trying to save for a down payment for a house, that's the goal.

Right, and we are not investing yet, all right, and so we also want to start doing that. I'm 23..

He's also 23.

Okay, so what percentage down are you trying to get to?

I mean, we want to do it the 20 20 for a 15-year fix. Yeah, that's the ideal, okay? And so what does that mean for you on the size house you're trying to get?

How much money do you need?

I guess I don't know for sure how much money we need because of house prices fluctuating, we don't know exactly what kind of house we're going to want. And so how is it that you know if you're off track or impatient? I mean, if you have a target and a date and you don't think you're going to hit that target and date, then you can ask. There's a hump, there's a problem, but right now you've just got a general idea.

We'd like to get a house someday.

Oh, okay, well, I'd like to get into a house quickly, but it seems like it's going to be what is quickly, I guess, in the next three years. Okay, and so how much can you save a year?

A year, I don't know, but I know monthly we save about 700. okay, that's 8,400 a year. in three years you'll have 24,000..

Okay, you just need to do a little bit, you need to dig down and do some research on this and really get your head around the numbers. And then, okay, to Dave's point, you'll have 24,000. Go over and do the How much home can I afford? calculator on Ramseysolutions.com.

And then you're going to be able to plug in the numbers. Look at real estate in your area, look at what 20 of a down payment would be, and put real weight to these numbers and see what's actually possible. And then you can look at that and go, okay, if 24,000 doesn't get it, what do I need to save? And then you can actually have a real target. Yeah, what have I got to pick up as a side job while I'm at home with the babies?

And what can he do to pick up his income, also above 65, so we can do more than 8,400?

And it's because if he made an extra $10,000 a year on the side for three years, that's another 30,000. Instead of 20,000 down, we're now talking about 50,000. That changes the game. So that's how you start backing into this and figuring out if you're impatient or not.

If you told me you wanted 50,000 by the end of this year to buy a house, you make $65,000 a year and you don't have any money. Then I would say, yeah, you're impatient and unrealistic. There's not any math in your story that's going to take you there, right? But that's not what you're saying. And so three years, if you're 23, you're going to be 26, that's not a bad timeline.

I kind of like that timeline. If it takes one more year, so what? Not the end of the world? We at least are aiming at something, We've got a game plan and we're talking this through.

But all good financial goals have a longer time horizon, meaning bad financial goals lead you to doing nothing but partying. Thank God, it's Friday, Oh God, it's Monday.

Long-term financial goals are thinking the way you're thinking, okay, where am I going to be when I'm 26? where am I going to be when I'm 23? Now? What have I got to do to get to those things that we're not doing now?

What must be true? That's not true now to hit that desired future, as Henry Cloud says. And then, you know, then you're going to be there. But I don't hear anything that's completely in dreamland or la-la land here. I think this is all doable.

You've probably just got to think through, you know what other?

If we want to do this in two years or three years, and we want price X. If we want a $250,000 house, then no, you're not going to be ready at $24,000. You know, I think, to your point, Dave, you're right. There usually is an extended timeline and I think people kind of get weirded out, thinking, Oh my gosh, I'm going to have to be disciplined for this amount of time.

You're going to be disciplined the rest of your life. Yeah, it's easy to be disciplined for, and you don't have to. It's just if you want the house, that's what you have to do.

That's right, if you don't want the house, then you don't have to be disciplined, that's right, but it's not going to be. This is how you get things, is you make the money, behave.

And so that's what you're facing, Grace, and I think you're in better shape, maybe than your emotions feel like you are, but I think it'll help the emotions. If you lay down a detailed plan of exactly a where we want to go, and b, how are we going to get there and what are the steps to get there? And then what have we got to do different that we're not doing now to accelerate that plan?

And you can start to have those discussions around that. That makes a lot of sense. So good question, by the way. So here's an interesting thing. There's a lot of squawking and carrying on that.

Gen Z can't buy a house. It's impossible. Well, it is if you make $57,000 a year and you live in San Francisco 100%.

And you're 23.

You're not going to buy a house there. Yeah, that is impossible. Yeah, that's true, so you can't.

But does that mean you can't buy a house? No, you can live in Omaha, Nebraska, and you know what? $200,000 to buy in Omaha?

A nice house, a nice house with some cornfields in the back.

Guaranteed, guaranteed. There's some cornfields in the back, but yeah, the old cornhuskers, right? so, but I mean, it's, and probably some pheasants, but yeah, the so.

But the point is is that you've got to say, okay. My income and my dreams and my location, all three have to be aligned, that's right. And so when I started the show 30 years ago, the idea of living in Manhattan, downtown New York City. If you made $60,000 a year and $60,000 a year 30 years ago a lot of money, it was impossible. You couldn't do it. You're kidding?

You can't live in 60.

You can't, couldn't do it, and you can't do it now either. So, you know, it has to do with lining up your dreams with your realities, instead of just wishing things were different.

And Grayson's doing just that, that's why she's going to win. This is the Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Jade Washaw, number one bestselling author of the Ramsey Quick Read and, of course, Ramsey Personality. She's my co-host today. The phone number is 888-825-5225..

James is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi James, how are you? I'm all right and yourself better than I deserve.

What's up, hi, so a little bit of backstory. I'm a couple years out of college and I've been working at a large public accounting firm since then. And I guess I'm kind of at a point in my time doing that where I've decided that I might be looking to do something else. Because I don't get a lot of fulfillment out of it.

And I guess I just have a hard time deciding, how do I decide when to do that, and also I guess what career path to pursue? Because, I mean, I'm an attraction to a management area. I have a minor in business management along with my degree, and also for context, I've passed the CPA exam, so I have that for what it's worth.

But it's just, I don't know where to go from there. OK, So you went to an extreme amount of trouble to become an accountant?

Yes, OK, and you've discovered that the version of accounting that you do in a public accounting firm is not fun for you.

Yeah, I'd say that's accurate. Yeah, so what is it? Because it occurs to me that possibly it is not that you hate accounting, it's that you hate accounting there.

I suppose, I guess I was kind of afraid to try and move into another role just because what kind of other role?

So some other roles I've looked at are I guess we call them in the industry, we call them industry positions. You don't work in public, you work for a company. Like. I've looked at this hospital position that has accounting positions within various levels and a few other places, and they just haven't panned out.

Like, I've applied and I know that's not the best way to get into a position like that. But it just, it hasn't panned out for me thus far. So I'd say that doesn't mean it's not what you want to do. Just haven't found the job is all, yeah.

I don't think you know exactly what you want to do, I think....

What I'm suggesting is there's a possibility. You are not disillusioned with the accounting field. You are disillusioned with being an accountant in a public accounting firm, which is pretty much a grind.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, you're what, two years out of school? You said, Yeah, yeah. So they're dumping everything and there's a brother on your desk. You're just in a, you know, you're just a widget machine right now, right?

It's about right, yeah, well, no wonder it's not fun, but that doesn't mean accounting isn't fun for you.

I suppose, I guess you sure have done a lot of it for somebody who hates it.

I mean, what would your ideal if you had your ideal scenario as an accountant? what would it be? and then work backwards from that, my ideal scenario? And I'll tell you what it is here in a second. Isn't something that I think exists in public accounting anymore. Just because it's changed as an industry, and that's fine, it's more of an industry.

Okay, it'd be more of like an industry position. But so it's I guess more like the nuts and bolts of accounting. Like, you know, explaining, I guess, transactions. And you know how they affect financial statements to people if they need it. Because, like the accounting, people do at Ramsey all day long, yeah, they sit with the business units and they talk about how to do the business and tell them what the accounting is telling.

You know, here's the tea leaves, the tea leaves in. The accounting reports are telling you in the business unit, this, this and this, and what other KPIS. What other things can we do to assist you to make your business run better? It's, you know, it's a live breathing thing when you do accounting in a place like ours.

Exactly, and it's just, I don't feel like that exists in the public scenario, so don't do it anymore. So go get one of those.

Okay, but it doesn't mean you have to go become a guitar player, yeah, or you have to get a degree in art.

Yeah, you know, which would be like the other side of the spectrum from your brain, yeah, and so....

The other side, I guess, and this would be like a whole heck of a pivot, so to speak. But it would be, you know, if I'm just that fed up with it, moving into, i guess, again, management, or even crazier, a trade, but like, I guess it doesn't sound like.

See Accounting is....

Here's an interesting number for you, okay? Of the CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, over 60 of them have an accounting degree.

And most of them from public universities, by the way, not from muckety-muck universities. So the accounting degree is very functional, because in order to get an accounting degree, you have to learn business, otherwise accounting doesn't even make sense. And so you're qualified to walk in to business settings and create.. ..

I mean, you're probably inexperienced in business and so you've got some.

Probably got to get some calluses. But you have the ability to go create some serious business acumen over the next decade and maybe be a CFO somewhere.

That kind of thing, and so that's what I'm saying, and that's really not that big a pivot. It's using your education and your natural bent and your skill set just to apply it in a different place. That has more life to it than the widget machine you're stuck in, yeah.

So I don't blame you, I think what you're doing would make me want to. I mean, I couldn't stand it, but I couldn't stand. Just generally doing accounting all day anyway because I'm not detailed enough, but because I'm not that. So here's what I want you to do.

I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's Get Clear Career Assessment and his new book, Find the Work You're Wired To do. Okay, and the book explains how the career assessment works. But I think the career assessment just from talking to you, I might be wrong. It's a very, very good tool, by the way.

We've sold almost 100,000 of them and we've now put them in this book. So folks, when you buy the book, find the work you're wired to do. It comes with the career assessment, a code to take the career assessment on our website, and it really gives you insight. So I think it's going to help you a ton. James, and I think it's going....

My opinion is, and you could call me back and tell me I'm crazy later. It might tell you something else, it might tell you to be an artist, but I think it's going to tell you you're doing the right thing in the wrong place.

All right, well, I hope that it gives me some direction. I really appreciate that information, those thoughts. Sure, I'll send that to you.

You hang on and the team will pick up and we will get you signed up just for that. So I get the sense that James doesn't suddenly hate numbers. I don't think so. There's many applications that you can do the same skill set. I'm a version of that.

Yeah, that's true, that's true now. We never would have thought the lady on the cruise ship stage is going to end up a Ramsey personality. But both of them have microphones. It's the same skill set. This is the Ramsey show.

Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. we're glad you're here. Hey, Rachel Cruz's second kid's book, I'm Glad For Where I Am, is available today. It is book launch Day.

That's right. Rachel has an exceptional gift of storytelling that both parents and kids enjoy. These illustrations bring the adventure to life. It's a perfect gift for kids. I'm glad for what I have. The first book was about contentment versus entitlement.

I'm glad for where I am teaches you about gratitude, particularly about home, and I'm glad for what I have, and I'm glad for where I am. Are both in our store? You can order your copy at ramseysolutions..com store. And Rachel's going to be out and about tomorrow, she'll be in Phoenix signing books.

And on April 17th in Los Angeles the next day, April the 18th, and Dallas April the 20th, the following week in Atlanta on April the 27th. So do a little story time.

Read the books, read the book and bring the kiddos out and get the books signed. These books are the first one to hit the children's Number One bestseller list number one on the best children's bestseller list. I'm trying to get that right out of my mouth.

And this one will, too. They're fabulous. I've already been reading them to the grandkids. Of course I've got an inside track on this, and so the grandbabies love it.

The Ramsey grandbabies endorse Rachel's book. I'm just saying so good stuff, and the book is, I'm glad for where I am. And if you can teach kiddos gratitude, you can teach them contentment.

In a world gone crazy, grateful people, content people are peaceful, highly attractive people, and that's what you want your kids to grow up to be. Yeah, this is the Ramsey show. Jade Walshaw is my co-host.

Aaron is in des Moines. Hi Aaron, welcome to the Ramsey show. Hey, thanks for having me, sure.

What's up, I am, so I just have a couple of questions for you. I'm around $785,000 in debt and I have an idea of how to tackle it.

But my wife is on board with my idea, so I just want to get your advice on how to tackle this. And what you could do. In my situation is that, including a house, it is so it's a primary that I owe $450,000 on.

And I have a secondary house that we moved, it was our primary. So we're still within that window of capital gains. Agree with yourself? But I owe $192,000 on that one. What's it worth?

About.

It's worth about $325,000, okay, and what's the $450,000? The house you owe? $450,000? What's it worth?

Around $490,000.

We just bought it less than a year ago, so yeah, so you've got $200,000, $650,000, which leaves $135,000 in other debt. What is that?

Yeah, so two of them are vehicles, about $40,000 of it is our vehicles, one for me and one for my wife. About $15,000 is personal debt.

Six of it's a credit card, and nine of it is a personal loan and $29,000 on a student loan. Yeah, you guys are seriously broke. what do you all make?

Yeah, we are combined, so my wife is a stay-at-home mom. But I make. And my base salary, my W-2 is $175,000, and I have about $20,000 in gross rental income from that first property. Okay?

So you make about $200,000 a year. Yes, okay, all right, and why can't y'all live on that?

Well, I think it's lifestyle grief because it's less than a year ago my salary doubled and I think we just kind of went crazy. So what is it you're wanting to do that your wife is not in tune with? So I'm wanting to sell that rental property before the capital gains becomes an issue. You use that to clear out all of our consumer debt and then just start tackling our primary mortgage with the snowballs.

Why doesn't she want to do that?

Well, it's next to some relatives. our primary home is next to some relatives, who are the some relatives? Her parents? No, they're my brother and his wife, and they're pretty close.

His wife and her are pretty close, so that means you have to own a rental property next door.

That's kind of where I'm at with this whole thing. Well, what does she say? Is that the reason?

It's a safety net, really, because we just picked up.

How is it a safety net? You guys are freaking broke. Yeah, that's really what I'm trying to get across to her. Has she seen the numbers?

The way you just laid it out with us, have you sat and said, Look, honey, here's where we're at. Have you guys done that?

We have her and I both come from traditional backgrounds of living on consumer debt with our families, and her idea of never being in debt is just that. It's not possible to do.

After finding.

Well, it's pretty possible if you sell the rental house.

Why is it not possible? Of course, it's possible, it's just you don't want to do it. Yeah, one of the crutches is that two and a half percent interest rate that we have on that thing. And it's just, yeah, which is such a blessing.

Y'all are freaking starving to death, making 200,000 bucks and spending like you're in Congress. I mean, I think you have a pretty serious level of denial going on inside your household here that I'm a lot more upset about than you are.

Yeah, well, that's the thing, you know. We grew together. We went from having nothing to where we're at today to having a negative net worth. Yeah, you're exactly right.

Making more money than you ever made in your life, and you're more broke than you've ever been in your life. Because you want to own a rental property next door to your brother-in-law? No, thanks. We talked about this earlier, about the idea that real estate's not always a good thing, it's not a good thing, and this is not....

Well, no, what's going on here is there is zero control on spending in this house, and that's what's really going on. That's the core of this. Is that okay? Now? We're going to admit we bought cars we can't afford, We've been taking vacations we couldn't afford.

And we've been buying crap on Amazon that we can't afford. And so we got credit card debt and personal loans coming out our ears and two car payments, and we make $200,000 a year. So, Aaron, I don't think this is a financial problem, I think this is a denial problem.

And I think the two of you need to sit down and you need probably if I'm in your situation, I'm going to go, honey. Look, I can't live like this. This is ridiculous. I'm working my butt off. And we're going backward. Because you won't sit down and look and deal with our spending, our overspending. And I'm willing to work on it, I'm willing to do the sacrificing to win, I am not willing to live like this.

Just because your parents live broke, and your brother-in-law lives broke, and everybody else lives broke, paycheck to paycheck, making $200,000 a year. I don't want to live like that, I'm not going to live like that. So we're getting ready to do something different around here and that's how it's going to sound at our house.

And if we can't come to some kind of agreement where we start acting like adults and living on less than we make and making adult decisions about our future. Then we've got real serious marriage issues and we need to sit down with a marriage counselor. Mm-hmm, yeah, I mean, I just I'm detecting that at least the wife sounds like she's got these status symbols in place. Oh, we make $200,000..

We need to be able to show everybody that we're making this money. And it's with the cars and the being able to buy what you want on the credit cards and having the second rental property. And how will it look to other people if we start to downsize and we start to cut back in areas? And it shows, and I think people are very afraid of those changes. Showing. You really got to watch out calling the show when Jade's here because she'll just read your mail.

You just nailed that, that's exactly what's going on. It's, yeah, she really cares about what people think, and here's the thing.

You're going to be broke your whole life, you're going to work your whole life and be broke when you do that. Not just Erin, but anybody who's following this plan. Because if you, one of the benefits of going broke is when I went broke, is I lost my need to make you people happy.

If you, you know what I drove today, a really nice car, you know why I drove it, it's because what I want to drive. I don't care if any of you know I've got it or see it.

I enjoy driving a freaking car. It's none of your dadgum business. I used to, when I was an immature little twit drove a car because I wanted people to see me driving that car. There's a lot of difference and want to make you broke and want to make you rich.

Not caring what people think is a superpower, man, it's right next to common sense. It's like the whole council of superpowers right there. This is the Ramsey show.

Jade Walshall Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. thanks for being with us. America. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Carmen is in Clarksville. Hi Carmen.

How are you? I'm great. thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up? We just have a quick question.

We are going to be selling a rental property that we own in a different state than where we currently reside. And we're going to be getting a pretty decent size net profit off of that. Cool, how much you going to make? We think between like, $200 and $250, based off current estimations. Yeah, we're pretty excited about that.

And we were just curious what the Ramsey principle thing to do with it would be. Well, what baby step are you on?

So I'm terrible about keeping track. I think it's like five, six and seven, so we have our sorry four, five and six. We have no debt, except the house that we'll be selling has a mortgage. Still, our primary home we're living in currently has a mortgage, but no debt.

Outside of that, what's the balance on your mortgage that we currently live in our primary home? Yes.

About $320 $325.

Okay, but I like to throw a wrench in things. This home will not be a long-term play for us. My husband is active duty military and we will be leaving this house in probably like one to three years. Which kind of made me more cautious of putting that money toward this property. And wondering if there might be a better play with it since it's more short-term.

What's your interest rate? It's pretty high, five, six, seven, five. We've only been here just about two years, so we bought peak price, peak interest rate. So what is the risk of making 5 on your money by putting it on your mortgage?

I guess nothing. Yes, there is no risk there, because, I mean, when you sell the house, you're going to get the money back, right? Yeah, you're not spending it.

When we leave here, we'll be looking at, like, moving back to where our families are from. Yeah, and you would sell the house? we didn't even know if, yes, the house is worth about what?

Now it's probably what we paid, if we're lucky, probably still $335, $345. Okay. And so when you sell it, if it's worth $402 years or $450, you're going to get $450 minus selling expenses if it's paid off by then.

Yes, and you take that half million and go start your next life after military. Okay, thanks for your service. By the way. Will you still put it toward this house?

I think I would, yeah, now is there any? I mean, either of you driving a junk car? Is there a kid getting ready to go to college? Is there a little bit of light renovation?

Is there something we need to do while we're in baby steps 4, 5, 6? That with some of this money and not put it all on the House Emergency Fund's good, right? Yes.

Okay, yeah, and why is car good? Yeah, I mean, we both drive older, paid for cars, but that are well cared for and well maintained.

So we don't.

So you don't think in the next 12, 14 months you're going to be buying a car? Oh no, okay, all right.

And.

And our kids are young, five and eight, so our kids are little, and you're putting aside a little bit each month for college. We are not much because they will each be getting half of my husband's GI bill.

He's not using it for himself, he's using military tuition assistance, so half of their college will be paid for already. On the next move, I said, post-military, on the next move, will he be retiring, or it'll just be another move?

No, it will hopefully be retiring, it'll either be standard retirement or medical retirement, depending on the timeline. Yeah, okay, all right.

Okay, because he's approaching his 20 year then, correct, yeah.

He's at like 16 and a half now, so yeah, you'd like to ride that out and get that 20 year coin. For sure, that's the goal.

We are hoping, Yeah, that's cool. Well, thank you again, thank you again for your service and for your no-nonsense assessment of this. I'm probably going to set a little bit of this aside, not a ton, for just enjoyment.

Okay, like, y'all, take a trip, or you buy yourself something that y'all have been wanting. A little bit of a splurge, not a $50,000 splurge, but a five or a 10. Okay, and then I'm going to throw the rest of it at the mortgage if it's me.

And then I'm going to start going, Hey, that mortgage is now in reach, let's start thinking about in our budget, finishing that puppy off. Yeah, I think that's going to serve as a big motivator. Because now you can kind of see the end of the finish line and it's easier to run when you see the end.

Carrie's with us in Eugene, Oregon. Hi Carrie, how are you? Hi? Thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up?

Well, I am about to change jobs temporarily, and I'm trying to decide, do I move my 180k from my current 401k to my new employer? Or roll it into an IRA? Never, always roll it to an IRA, because you've got 8,000 mutual funds to choose from. Literally, exactly.

And your current 401k at your new job is going to have 12 or 14.

Exactly so. Part two of that question is 401K. At the new job, knowing that I'm only going to be there two to three years while I finish my master's program. Do I do the employer match? Yes.

Or do I bump it up to max contributions? Well, I'd max it if you are you out of debt.

Yeah, my husband and I make really good money, we have a house loan, and other than that, we're debt-free, great cars, all the good stuff, paying for college cash.

But I don't know whether I should.

100 Well, that's a lot of things to you. Well, I mean, before we got married, we completed your course because we wanted to do this, right.

Yeah, I mean, you're going up to 15 and you're starting with your match. It sounds like you might make more than a roth. IRA. Am I right? yeah.

Okay, yeah, yeah, max it out, max what you can out, and then you can do backdoor.

Especially if you've got a Roth 401K at the new place. Yeah, is it? So? Is that what I should do then?

For what, take a roth, everything that you can, and on the new stuff, not the rollover. The rollover is traditional to traditional. Okay, the 180, because I don't want that to become taxable right now.

But yeah, I'd max out that roth and especially if you can get it with a match. And yeah, you're just going to end up with an extra pile of money there. That you move when you leave that job, mm-hmm, yeah, so when I move that leave that job, my career will most likely be self-employed.

And so that's where I'm trying to kind of get that IRA established, because I think that's where my best retirement is going to be, if I've understood correctly.

I'm sorry. Your best retirement is where you can do all kinds of stuff when you're self-employed.

My IRA Okay, well, maybe that's another call, then your rollover IRA you won't be adding anything to.

You'll be opening a new one when you're self-employed, but it can be in the same mutual funds with the same broker. Get a SmartVestor Pro To help you do all this. Just click at ramseysolutions..com. Find the Smartvestor Pro in your area. Sit down, they'll help you arrange all this stuff.

So what you're going to end up with is the old 401K rolling over to an IRA, you're going to open a new Roth 401K with a match. We hope at the new place, when you leave there, you're going to roll it to a roth. So you'll have those two accounts with account numbers on them, that's right.

And then when you're self-employed, you can start doing traditional.

I mean, you can do regular roths, and you can either do a SEP or a simple IRA for your self-employed company, whichever one you want to do. And you can look at all of that at that time. But yeah, you can do all kinds of stuff when you're self-employed. To have the same approach as your, only difference is if you match, you match yourself.

That's right, that's the only difference. Other than that. You're in great shape, Carrie, you're doing really good stuff, very good.

She's killing it. Yeah, asking the right questions, yeah, moving in the right way.

So here's the thing always, when you leave your company, folks always roll your 401K to an IRA, not to the new company's 401K. Because you have more options, you're sitting with your SmartVestor Pro, you've got an account.

You're now managing your wealth away from work, right? And it's a transfer, direct transfer.

It's not you pulling it out and then putting it into.

A rollover, it's a direct transfer rollover. That's a good point, yeah.

And so what Jade is talking about is make sure the money is sent straight to the mutual fund, not to your house, because you don't want them withholding on it. You want to put the whole thing in there, and that's the route to go. This is the Ramsey show.

Our Scripture of the Day Philippians 1 6.

God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished, John Wooden said. What is right is more important than who is right. Ooh, that'll work. Todd is with us.

Todd's in Philadelphia. Hi Todd. How are you? Hi, I'm doing well. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? So I got a question on what to do with some proceeds from a life insurance policy.

This is from my late wife's estate and I got a bunch of money. I put it in a CD last year to kind of hide it from myself, and the CD is maturing in May. I'm trying to figure out if I should use it to pay off the mortgage or to save it. Use it for my kid's education or something else for my children.

Wow, so she's been gone since May, since May? Yes, I'm sorry, what happened? I'm sorry since June, since June, yeah.

What happened? I'm sorry, she had leukemia, it happened very, very quickly. How old was she?

53 years old. Wow, and how much money's in there, Todd?

There's $180,000 left. Okay, all right, and what are your options? What are you considering doing with the money? So I have $145,000 left on the mortgage.

If I could, you know, pay it off and be done with it, and that's the only debt I have. Another is to say, you know, keep it well. My youngest is still in high school, I have to put him through college.

You know, I might need that, I might not, but I would just, you know, do something with it for the kids somehow. Yeah, what do you make?

Do I make?

About $200,000 a year, all right, so if I understand you have $180,000, you owe $145,000. So if you paid off the mortgage, you have $35,000 left. Plus, you make $200,000 a year. To get the youngest through college, yes, and I'll have a good bit saved for him too.

I just don't know how much this is going to cost, right?

Well, I do. It's going to cost $35,000, plus whatever you can come up with out of your budget, that's what it's going to cost. That's where he's going to go to school, we're going to go to school we can afford to go to.

That would be nice. No, it's not nice. It's what we're going to do. It's my money, okay?

So that's how this works. If you want my money, you're going to go where I want you to go to school. So, I mean, we'll talk about it and we can pick a school, but we're probably going to a state school, which is fine, by the way. Yeah, because we didn't do this with our daughter, you know, but I get it. The situation is different now.

Hey Todd, your phone is awfully muffled. Can you speak directly into it? I'm having trouble hearing you. Yes, I'm sorry. thank you.

Okay, yeah, we didn't do that with our daughter. We kind of let her pick her place, but I recognize the situation is different now. Yeah, so is she out of school?

She has one more year, but I can handle that, I already have something for that. And how old is the youngest? What year of high school? He's a 16 years old junior.

Okay, so he's got senior while he's finishing up his junior, while your daughter's finishing up her senior year of college? No, they're both juniors, so one in high school, one in college.

So they're both going to be seniors at the same time then, so you're not going to really get a break, you're going to go from one to the other. No, I'm not, you're correct.

Okay, I'm catching on, Okay. And how expensive was her school?

It's $80 a year and no aid, okay, and you cash flowed all that we did.

Wow, we did. My wife Sharon handled all the finances, she did a wonderful job. Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Well, I mean, if you make $200 a year and you don't have any debts, including a mortgage, you can probably pull off just about whatever you want. However, you want to prioritize your personal cash flow towards your youngest college, that'll be up to you, plus or minus $35,000. Do you have any other money saved?