Make Financial Choices That Give You Freedom
2024-06-12 01:57:59
The Ramsey Show believes you can build wealth and take control of your life—no matter what stupid mistakes you've made with money. Join as Dave Ramsey and his team of experts answer your questions on the top problems holding you back. Listen now or ask your question live by calling 888.825.5225 weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET. Learn more at www.ramseysolutions.com
This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome aboard. We're here to help you win in your life, win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the number. I'm Ken Coleman.
Rachel Cruz joins me this hour, and she'll be taking the money questions. I'll jump in on the income questions related to your work. You ready to go, Ms. Rachel?
Oh yeah, Ken.
Summer time. Summer, summer, summertime.
Here we are.
We are here.
In June. Living it up.
And the weather could not be nicer in Middle Tennessee. A nod to our lovely studio audience out there. Great-looking people today from all around the country. So let's get to it. Michael's going to start us off in Columbus, Ohio.
Michael, how can we help today?
I'm pretty much drowning in debt. I'm 47 years old, and I got about $350,000 in my house that I own, and about $120,000 in eight different accounts that I'm owing. And I'm just kind of trying to figure out what the best route is. I have a 401k loan, I have doctor bills, I have $8,000 in IRS, I have two personal loans, one auto loan, one travel trailer loan,
and $20,000 on a credit card.
Oh, my gosh. Okay. So how did you get here, Michael? What's kind of the backstory? What's caused all this?
I think previously I didn't make much money, and then I got a job where I started making more money. So I just started spending more, and then I think it became a habit. And then I started trying to pay off my debt, so I started consolidating debt with a loan,
paying that off, or not paying it off, but consolidate it, and then rack up all my credit cards and finance more stuff. And then I consolidated again, and I probably did that two or three times, but now I'm kind of, I'm right at the edge, I would say.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's, you're bumping, yeah, half a million dollars in debt, including a mortgage. But this, so the consumer debt, is what I would probably, what I want to talk to you about, first and foremost, because this is where, are you behind on payments?
No, I've been making payments, and I've tried, I'm pretty much minimum in all my payments other than one loan, which I was doing the snowball before, and then I pretty much fell.
off of that.
And I'm just kind of, I'm at a point where I'm just kind of like maxing out.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm just trying to figure out where is the basic beginning, first steps.
Are of this, okay.
That should be taken.
What kind of career are you in now? How much are you making?
I'm in energy and utilities for my linemen, so I'm probably, it kind of floats depending on over time, but the last two years I've made about 180.
Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
That's fantastic. Income is great. There's no question. you've got a good income and you've got some potential future here. This is getting control.
Yeah. Of you, Michael. I mean, that's what it is. I'm like, it's a, and it's a, and in your case, it is that classic example of people that have the issue, right, of debt, not controlling the behavior and thinking mathematically. they can work their way out by getting into more debt with, you know, a different interest rate or, you know, trying to kind of move the puzzle pieces around.
But at the end of the day, it's, yeah, it is you. And so, I mean, we can sit here for sure and kind of talk through some of this on a logistical side, but I think the head knowledge, I think you may have, Michael, you said you were doing the snowball at one point. I think for you, there just has to be this, I've had it moment and you just haven't had it yet. This could be it, as we're talking and where you're at currently, why you called in. But there has to be enough pain in your present situation for change to occur.
And that's going to be my biggest thing with you, that there's going to be a plan and it's going to be long and excruciating and it's going to take a lot more hours that you're going to be working. It's going to be, your life is going to look 180 degrees different than how it does today. in order for you to get out of this. Are you committed to do that kind of change?
Yeah, I think I am. I just had two kids. I have two under two. So I'm...
Oh, wow.
I mean, I can't be living like this.
Yep, totally.
What's your biggest need? I know what you started the call with, but what do you really need help with? Because I think Rachel just nailed you really well. And so what is it that you really want from us today?
What I want from y'all is to kind of help me figure out the best route I can do. Ultimately, what I want is time with my family. I'm sick of working 60 to 80, 90 hour weeks. I want to get back down to 40, 50 hours a week and just be able to live on that.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So I love that. That's a good target.
Yep, for sure. So I think, Michael, the debt snowball, like we talked about, because you listed out a lot of debts at the beginning of the call. So what I would want you to do is sit down and list all of those out, the total of them, and the smallest amounts, not payment, not interest rate, the smallest amount to the largest amount. So this could be... And your credit cards, $20,000 of credit cards, if it's multiple credit cards, split those totals up, right?
I mean, each credit card is its own debt and list that out. And what I would say is, I think, getting quick wins for you guys, Michael, is going to be because your wife... Are you married? Yes. Yeah.
I mean, your wife has to be as committed as you are in this. Where is she at with everything?
She's.
. To be honest, I've been... She's a stay-at-home mom and I've been... I would say she's more in the dark about everything. I need to be more open with her.
What's your spending situation? Are you guys spending way too much or have you already started the process of tightening the belt?
I believe I've been tightening the belt. She has been too. We still...
She doesn't know. She doesn't know how bad it is.
Yeah. By the way, in the way you said that, if this were a court of law, I'd be all over this as a lawyer. You just said, I have, which. that tells me what's really going on, and Rachel just pointed it out.
Yeah. So... Yeah. So, Michael, I think there's two big things as we leave this call, because I don't think we're going to be able to solve all of this in one segment here on the show, but two things. I want you guys...
The biggest piece is going to be the relational piece, Michael, and when you said that she's in the dark some, you're going to have one of maybe the hardest conversation you've had in marriage thus far, and I want you to rip the Band-Aid off, and I want you to be a thousand percent honest down to the penny, and she's probably going to be pissed. She's going to probably feel a level of betrayal, probably a level of, I've been in the dark. How has this been happening? And I had no clue. I mean, you're going to go through some crap, but that is one of the most beautiful things that can happen for you guys.
I mean, honestly, because finally it's off of your plate, Michael. I can't imagine what you've been carrying around. I mean, the amount of stress, and everything has been on you, and that's not to her fault. She doesn't know, but there's going to be something about bringing all this to the lights, Michael, for you, instead of you trying to manage everything and pay the payments and do the thing, work extra and figure it out on your own, that you have a wife and you guys can be a team in this, and it's going to be really hard. But I'm telling you, it's one of the best things that you guys can do together in your marriage.
You may need some marriage counseling after this. I'm serious.
Well, I was going to say, let's help them. Let's do every dollar premium.
Well, I was going to do a couple things. at the end. You're doing it? Oh, I'm sorry.
I'm jumping ahead. Well, it's just the two things. I'm Kris Kringle over here.
No, it's just the two things. So the conversation, Michael, with your wife is really important. That's number one. As we leave this call, please do that. Number two, you need some quick wins.
You had a car loan that maybe you may just need to sell the car, get a quick win on that, do the math. if you can't pay it off in 12 months, get rid of the car. There was some kind of trailer loan or something. If you sell that, you guys need some momentum starting, and some of the best ways you can do that is sell stuff that you have debt on. So do those things.
But also, stay on the line. Because, Kris Kringle, what are we going to give Michael today?
Every dollar. An FPU. An FPU. And also, I want to line you up with one free coaching session with one of our financial coaches. This will be therapy 101, to kind of get the therapy process potentially started, but a real coach is going to walk you through how you guys walk out of this going forward.
You guys can do it, Michael.
Hang on the line. We'll take care of you. This is The Ramsey Show.
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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. We are here for you to answer your questions about your money, your work, your relationships, and I'm Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruz. The phone number is 888-825-5225 or 888-825-5225.. Lindsay is going to join us now, right here in our neck of the woods, Nashville, Tennessee. Lindsay, how can we help today?
Hi, thank you for taking my question. I am writing in with a relationship money question, actually. Back in college, my parents loaned me about $18,000 to go to college. It was $15,000 in principal and $3,000 in interest to help me pay for college under the agreement that I would pay it off within three years of graduation.
Fortunately, I was able to do that, but after listening to many, many episodes of your guys' show, I feel a little bit taken advantage of. My question is, is it worth expressing my feelings to my parents now, despite the loan being paid back, or do I just accept the lesson, don't borrow from family and try to do better with my own kids going forward?
Okay, I'll start because I think I represent my colleague here. I don't know that we can answer that question without understanding why it is. you think they took advantage of you. based on what you've laid out right now. It doesn't sound like they took advantage of you.
What are we missing? that makes you feel like they took advantage of you?
Correct. I knew the full amount when I signed for it. They told me things like, you can go get a loan from a bank, but, God forbid, something happened while you're paying them back. Were you parents, we would be much more understanding of that situation should it present itself. I guess it's the whole charging interest thing that, I guess, doesn't sit right.
Okay, another question. You've paid this all back, as I understand it, correct? Correct. When did the tension arise over the interest? In the middle of it, before you started paying it back, or after you got done with it?
Paying the whole thing?
Yeah, more so after I got done with it.
How long after you got done with it?
It was about a year after.
What changed? What changed? I'm digging here on purpose, Rachel, thank you for giving me a little leeway here.
No, it's a fair question.
It is a very fair question. Let me explain it to the audience and to you one time, and then I want you to answer this. You paid it back. You paid back the full $18,000, and about three grand of it was the interest. Is that what I'm understanding?
It was $18,000, three of it was interest.
That's what I'm saying. Okay, so you paid it all back, and a year after you paid it back, at some point, at some day, a year after you paid it back, this started to bother you. That tells me something happened. What happened, or dare I ask, who happened?
I got married a little over a year after I graduated college, and my husband and I were talking about it, and he was shocked that they charged me interest and thought it was horrible that a parent would charge a child interest on a loan.
And you believed him all of a sudden.
Yes. Had it occurred to you before his comment that that might be a horrible, despicable thing in someone else's eyes?
Be honest.
Sure.
It had occurred to you? You're telling me at some point, you were like, I appreciate what my parents are doing, but I think this is a bit shady.
No, no, no, no. Sorry, sorry. I misunderstood your question.
I know. I'm playing lawyer. I watch too many television shows. Here's my point. The husband said this, and because of his understandable influence on you, and probably just by his sheer reaction, which he, by the way, has every right to his opinion, this totally shifted everything.
So I'm going to get out of the way and let Rachel weigh in, but I'm going to tell you my opinion now. I've gotten everything I need to know. So my opinion is, it's too late, and I don't think there was any tension or resentment at all until your hubs opened his mouth. He has every right to open his mouth. He has every right to opine on what your parents did.
I don't like how he said it, because I think he should have been wiser and more mature, and if he was on the phone, I'd tell him this. He has every right to his opinion, but he's now created some tension and resentment after the fact, and only from his point of view. And so for that reason, no, I don't think you should bring it up to your parents, and I think you need to figure out how to process this. Maybe it's therapy, but to create tension now, to me, seems foolish.
Yeah. I think what's hard for me, Lindsay, where it does not feel like they took advantage of you is because everything was up front. If you had called, and we've had these calls of people called, they said, oh my gosh, we pulled my credit report after I got married to buy a house, and I had a student loan on there. My parents took out a loan. I remember signing papers at 18, but they never told me.
That's deceitful. Parents, that loan with strings attached, that we'll give you this money, maybe for a down payment on a house, but you guys have to live this close to us. We have to see the grant. There's strings attached in relationships. It's kind of gross.
This sounds like, even though we're not for, you're exactly right, we are not for family members loaning money, period. The way they did it, Lindsay, it sounded very clear, very up front. The reason they did it, from what I hear, is they did it from a situation that it's less risk with the loan being held to them. It was not a, hey, we're going to give you a deal. We're going to charge you.
Now, if the $3,000 was unreasonable interest, if they're charging you 50% interest and they're taking advantage of you, that's gross and weird.
Did they do that?
Even if they pulled the average interest rate and they just said, hey, just do the loan with us, because if something happens, their words, we can give you grace, period. It won't hurt you financially. That's the reason they did it. It wasn't a mathematical, you're going to get a deal from us, we're going to give you this half off. Lindsay, I don't think they took advantage of you.
I think you knew exactly what you were signing up for, and I think that the reason they did it was so that a bank wasn't involved, but it wasn't a financial deal on their end. It was just a, hey, here's this.
Did they charge you the going rate on interest? I mean, Rachel brings us a very good point here.
Well, no. So it would have been about, what is that, 20%? maybe? It was $1,000 for every $5,000 that I borrowed from them.
Okay. All right. Yeah. So that's a little bit, that's a little steep.
It's a little high. Are your parents super tight?
Yes. Very.
Okay. So I actually, I'm glad you brought this up, Rachel. Sorry. I know I was diving in a little bit, not truly interrupting, because I don't like that.
Go, Ken. Go. Okay.
Well, I personally wouldn't charge my kid interest, and then again, we don't loan our kids money, nor am I going to, but I'm trying to put myself into this. So remember the little classic, we tell you what we would do. Okay. We wouldn't do it, but if I'm sticking myself in, I think it's a little tight. I think it's a little uptight, but they didn't do anything.
But take advantage is a really, that's strong language.
I don't like that language. And I don't think they did. I am going to say, though, Lindsay, so I have another follow-up question. I can't wait for Rachel to get involved in this, potentially. So the timeline for all of our viewers and listeners here, a quick review.
It was a year after you paid it off that Hubs and you have the conversation. He gets upset and it affects you. How much time between that first moment where he makes the comment and this phone call today, how much time has passed?
Years. We've been married for almost three years.
Oh, wow. Wow.
That really concerns me. I was very intrigued by this. So here we are. Are you saying three years ago is when he first got alarmed and you started questioning this deal? Three years ago.
Yes. All right. So you've been sitting on this for three years.
And the loan's been paid off for three years as well.
Four.
Loan's been paid off for four.
I gotcha.
Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sewing the timeline here. So the question is, Rachel, doesn't that concern you? I'm very concerned.
Concerned? What do you mean? That she's just resenting? This resentment is just boiling it up. Yeah, it's built.
Yeah.
And she's calling us. And I'm glad you called us. Yeah. Stop talking about it.
Get over it. I would release it, Lindsey. I really would. Yes. I think that, yes, they're probably cheap, to a degree.
Probably. Yeah, they're cheap. They're big time cheap. But they didn't do anything deceitful. You knew exactly what you were signing up for.
And so I think it's one of those things that, again, thankfully, you have the money to pay them back and all of it. But the deal is, this is another reason why we don't loan money. So I'm glad you've been watching the show, Lindsey, because you're exactly right. I would do this because it does feel weird, and it's. not only does it feel weird because you owe your parents money when we talk about that, but it's also weird in this situation when you look back and you're like, oh, gross, I don't like how that felt.
So all of that is standard and justified.
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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. All right, folks. If you are debt-free, you're walking through the baby steps and you're going, man, I got to learn how to turn that corner, Rachel, from that gazelle intensity that you really need for one through three.
To enjoy life.
And you start to go, and we get these calls all the time, people going, I mean, I did it. I got to learn how to spend money. We get those calls every week. Then I've got an idea. I've got an idea for you baby steps, four through seven people.
Is this a new idea? Are you coming up with this on the spot, Ken?
No. No, I see what you did there. No, but I'm saying some of you are going, I need to learn how to transition from gazelle intensity to actually living like no one else. So I got an idea. What if you went on a cruise with me and Rachel and Dave and John Deloney and George Camel and Jade Warshaw and some of our friends, and you went to places like Turks and Caicos.
And then, after you did that, you went to St. Thomas. And then we got to go to Puerto Rico.
Yeah.
Hello.
And then, while you're there.
And then you're down there. Go to the Bahamas. Let's go to the Bahamas. And so I'm sitting next to the Bahama. mama herself.
You got a little tan going on, I noticed.
Oh, we went to the beach last week. Yeah. Okay.
I thought you had a little more color. Thanks. Thanks. And so this cruise is actually a thing.
We're going on a cruise, y'all.
We are doing, it's called Live Like No One, Else Cruise. It's seven days, all of those locations. We're going. Rachel will be there bronzed up. I mean, she'll be ready to go.
All of her Walmart, beach gear, all of the things. Are you going to have like a special Instagram? This is my cruise outfit. Oh, my blinky. I'll tell you my outfit of the day.
Rachel Cruise Cruises.
There you go. That's good. That's good.
I'm really working here. This is so good. Because you're known for this. If people don't follow you on Instagram, you always have these deals.
Yeah. Well, if I find a good deal, personally, I'm like, yeah, I'll share it out.
And I'm getting fed up. Thanks. Can I tell you I'm getting fed up with it? Because I love your outfits. You know this.
You love the way you're.
. But every time you got a deal... It's not every time. I feel like, every time I see you now...
It's once or twice a week.
Ah, it feels like a little bit.
People love it. Hey, listen. I'm kidding. The ladies out there appreciate it.
First of all, I'm kidding. I am. But I am jealous that you're always got this new deal.
Thanks. Thanks, Kim. Well, but the new deal is happening right now with this cruise, you guys.
March 22 through 29.
Of 2025.
. So it's a $600 deposit to secure your cabin. And again, we're going to hang out. It's going to be a week-long cruise. It's going to be a ship full of people that have lived like no one else.
We're speaking.
We're going to do Q&A. We're going to be hanging out. And I just secured this new thing right before we came back on the air. Rachel's a reader. And I love this about her.
She loves to read. She loves to go on the gram and talk about her books. I think I convinced her to have a little book club on one of the decks. Every afternoon at 2 o'clock.
I told her, I said, I'm excited to have a cocktail in the afternoon with a good thriller book on the deck of the boat.
Would you be willing to read to people?
We'll have to see. I got to see.
Like maybe one chapter from the latest book Rachel reads. I think it would be a huge hit. on the fourth deck. I bring copies.
I bring 20 copies.
Cocktails and copies of books. There you go. You just do one chapter. You hand out a chapter and everyone reads it.
So you never know what's going to happen on this cruise. You never know.
I'm trying to get her to agree to do that.
And we're a good time. And Colin will be there too. Eddie's in the control room.
So here we go. Here are the dates. March 22 through 29, 2025.. $600 right now.
That's just the deposit.
Yeah, just as the deposit. Yeah, sorry. Everybody's like, $600?. Yeah, that's the deposit. That secures your cabin.
And it's a nice cruise ship too.
And it's very nice. We saw pictures the other day. The website to book. And, by the way, it will sell out. Ramseysolutions.com slash cruise.
Couldn't be any easier. Ramseysolutions.com slash cruise.
And some of the suites are sold out already. They are.
Is there going to be any karaoke by any chance?
Oh, I'm sure. That's a classic cruise situation.
Is Winston coming?
I think he's like half the week. Okay. Yeah. So he's going to come for a bit.
Very exciting. Ramseysolutions.com slash cruise. Move on it. now. You want to go and plan that trip.
Boy, it is going to be a lot of fun. And I look at those destinations, by the way. Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, the Bahamas. I've been to all but one.
Oh. I've never been to Turks. Okay.
I don't know if I have either.
So a lot of fun. Yeah. Primo destination should be a lot of fun. And we'll see. There'll be more surprises, I'm sure, and fun stuff happening all the time.
I, for one, am going to show up for the book club on the deck with you.
Okay.
Good spy novel. Yeah.
Deck E. Sure. On the starboard side.
Starboard. Starboard. Don't know what any of that means. Neither do I. I should wear a sailor outfit one day, just for fun.
Like one of those old school ones with the shorts.
No? Ken's going to have too much fun on this cruise.
Kelly, the producer, is terrified right now. Let's move to the calls to help her come out of her catonic state there. Sage is up in Austin, Texas. Sage, how can we help?
Hi, sir. It's a pleasure to talk to you.
Good to talk to you. What's going on?
So my question is about getting into debt responsibly. We own our home. We have a mortgage. And we also have a 3-year-old son who is on the autism spectrum.
He's a really good boy, except for his diagnosis. And he has a problem with escaping. He's a really good escape artist. He's gotten out of the house multiple times. We fixed that.
We put locks everywhere, on every window and whatnot. But now the issue is, we'll be in the front yard with him. And it'll be like my father, my husband, something like that. You know, we're just playing a normal game. And then, out of nowhere, he'll just bolt.
He'll go right into that busy street. Or I'll turn around and he'll quietly try to creep away to walk over to his friend's house. And we always catch up. Well, almost always. There was one time, actually, that he was brought back by a police officer.
And that was very, very heartbreaking and very traumatic.
Oh, gosh.
It's a dangerous situation. So we want to install a fence in our front yard. And we know that a lot of families, especially children, have to have safety fences. It's almost like a necessity. But it's also really expensive.
It's about $5,000.
. And I want to – I don't want to go to debt, but I would put it on the credit card. But I'm also a Christian, so it's said that we're supposed to be in debt to no man. And I'm wondering, what's the responsible thing to do here?
Well, we're not going to tell you to put it on a credit card. I'll give it to Rachel here pretty quickly. I just want to point out, as a father, I'm putting myself in your shoes. This is not easy. And you've got a lot of hoops that you have to jump through and a lot of safety precautions.
But if I was in your shoes, I would not put anything, any debt on this. I would not do this. We're not going to debt to build a $5,000 fence, because he's always looking to get out. And even with the fence, you're still going to have to watch him because it's not going to be long before he's old enough to figure out how to get out of the fence. And at this point, I would not.
If I was going to take my kid outside, I would go, when we go outside, we're on high alert here. We're not doing what normal people do.
We always are.
Well, but my point is that he shouldn't be running away if we're on high alert. And the fence is a part of the fix. It's not the fix. But I think you guys could save up $5,000.. You could sell stuff to come up with $5,000 pretty quick.
But until then, I wouldn't be out in the front yard with him. Or the yard, period. Rachel, is that harsh?
Yeah, no front yard in the spring, no front yard in the summer.
Yeah, I mean, Sage, where are you guys at financially? Do you have any savings?
Yes, ma'am, we do. We have a little bit in savings.
How much?
About, I think, $3,000 in savings.
Okay. Do you guys have debt? No debt, you said?
Yes. Yes, we have a mortgage, and that is $204,000.. Okay. The reason why I was thinking about putting it on a credit card is we got this offer. No, no, ever, no.
Like, just don't even touch it.
Yeah, no, and I wouldn't. I wouldn't, Sage. I would take, you know, I would take part of your $3,000, because you guys need to be building that up even more. How much do you guys make a year?
He makes $40,000 a year.
$40,000, okay. So, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't. I mean, you called the Ramsey Show. We're not going to tell you to go into debt over anything. It's a pretty black-and-white issue here on this show, especially.
And there's a spiritual element to that. I mean, you mentioned being a Christian. It's not a sin. Debt is not a sin. You can still go to heaven if you charge it on this credit card.
Right? I mean, it's not a sin issue. But it is. It's this idea that, yes, there is a spiritual, emotional component to debt. that is very real.
And then there's also just the financial side. And you guys, you know, you don't have the money to afford this right now. And I think that this is a wake-up call, too. And I've had friends with similar diagnosis with children. And it's terrible.
It's heartbreaking. It's so difficult. But to know, Sage, in the future, you guys need to be really, maybe you working extra, you working some, you guys need a good emergency fund in place. Because there's going to be tools that you guys are going to need to tap into for him in the future. And a fence is just the starting point.
But, no, I would not get in the habit of going into debt for this stuff. I would save, pay up, and just know that there's going to be further expenses for him in the future.
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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. The lovely, the talented, the gracious Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. 888-825-5225.. If I'm going to be co-hosting with you, it just occurred to me, I looked in the monitor, I'm going to have to get out in the sun.
I feel like we're a fair, similar shade. Well, not to me. But, anyway, I feel like a little extra pale. But you over here, getting the vitamin D these days. Let's go to Jill, who is in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Jill, how can we help?
Hey, thanks for taking my call today. It's great to talk to you guys.
You too. What's happening?
Well, I have a question. And I kind of wanted you guys to weigh in on a little debate in our family.
Oh, we love getting in the middle of debates.
We love a debate. Yes.
Well, this is going to be kind of a fun one. So, my daughter is 22 and she just graduated from college with some student loan debt. And about a year ago, she was able to get on the pre-sale and buy three tickets for her, my older daughter, and myself to go to a Taylor Swift concert in Indianapolis this coming November.
Now, hold on, Jill. Jill, I need to warn you. Before you go any further in setting this question to debate up, I am sitting next to, quite arguably, one of the biggest Swifties I've ever met.
I don't know if I'm the biggest.
That I've met.
That I met the right person.
Oh, no. Okay. My daughter has the right person. Okay. Keep going.
Keep going.
Okay. So, we had this back and forth over the phone because she was trying to buy the tickets. And it's this fast, furious thing when you're trying to buy them on their actual sale date. And anyway, she was able to get them. And we got them for like $209 apiece.
Wow.
Hold on a second. Hold on.
Is that a good deal? That's a fabulous deal. I thought it was a total splurge.
I thought that was such a splurge.
Well, it is relative to the way you see money.
People were spending thousands of resale.
Okay. $209 each? I'm just keeping score.
Right.
Okay. Keep going. All right.
And Rachel just said it, right? So, now I'm seeing these resale prices. That's crazy.
Oh, it's crazy. It's insane.
And so, I told her, like, look, you know, we're kind of.
I know where you're going with this, Jill.
You've got to pay your own debt to pay them. Why don't you... Why don't we sell those tickets? And we knock out so much, you know... The practical mom comes out at me, right?
Like, why don't we sell those tickets? And you can knock down so much of your student loan, but you'd be so far ahead, you know? And she says, absolutely. It's non-negotiable. It's a bucket list item.
She's like, probably you, Rachel, a 50, and this is, you know.
And it's her money, right?
Yes. And no, it was my money.
Oh, okay.
It was my money. So, I paid for that. But, you know, I mean, this is... And for me, too, I'm looking at, like, you know, she's iconic. I would love to go to her concert.
And, you know, my daughter, of all the people that she could take, she wants to take her sister and me, you know? I mean, that's great. It's going to be a fun thing. Oh, gosh.
Rachel's heart is breaking. I am so looking forward to it.
I'm so looking forward to this, but.
Okay, so hold on. All right, stop.
Again, practical mom.
I know. I'm going to be practical. You ready? Here we go. Let's start breaking this down.
Okay. It's 209 times 3, okay? So, I got $627, if my math is...
But if she resells them, what would she.
. No, no, no.
We're not to resell yet. So, you spent $627.. Correct. What would your take be? Rachel, now walk us through.
What do you think you could make on these tickets?
Okay. So, I just, like, briefed it today before the call. And, like, okay, so we're in the 200 level of seats, right? So, good seats.
Good.
600 level seats, like nosebleeder seats, just sold for, like, $2,000 a piece. 400 level, $3,000 a piece. And there are some 100 level that's just sold for $4,700 a ticket.
So, we're easily talking about $4,000, easy.
$10,000.
. Yeah, $10,000..
I'm thinking it would average out between $3,000, $4,000 easy.
A ticket.
Yeah. Per ticket. Per ticket. I get it. Uh-huh, uh-huh.
And where would the money.
. And so, if we did that, and so we would be netting, let's just, let's go $3,500 a ticket, to be modest. And so, what are you looking at? $10,500?.
$10,000.
$10,500.
How much is the student loan debt?
So, her student loan debt is $24,000?
. Correct. And that's what you would want to put the money towards?
Absolutely. 100% of it would go to there.
All right. And you initially invested $627..
That is correct.
And the only reason that you can net, let's just call it shy of just shy of 10 grand, is because you bought these tickets. Would you be putting $9,000 plus towards her student loan if you hadn't bought these tickets?
I would not.
All right. I'm going somewhere.
I think, well, I don't care what anybody says.
I wouldn't resell these tickets.
Are you shocked at his response? Rachel, chill.
This is the Holy Spirit moving.
No, no. I'm going to tell you what. Right in front of your eyes. Dare I say why? She wouldn't have put that money.
.
. Here's the deal, Jill. You weren't planning to cut a check for $9,500 to put on your daughter's student loan ever.
I was not.
So, my whole point is. ...
This is like a windfall, right? If $9,500 fell into my lap, I might do that.
I get it, but this is your daughter's and it's a once in a lifetime concert.
Oh, yeah.
I agree.
You go, Jill. Go to the concert.
I agree.
Oh, you were just shocked at what I said, or was that fake?
Because I'm so thankful that we were together on the same team, that our opinions lined up.
I thought you were going to be Scrooge.
Tell Olivia. Please tell Olivia, that we're going to the concert. Oh, Olivia.
You get to go to the Taylor Swift concert. She has the new Torture Poets. She has her new album. She has a whole new set. A whole new thing.
I just .
Oh, yeah.
I will tell you this.
I have a set list playlist that I have to listen to every day, because I have to learn all these songs.
I went to two. I went to two. I went to the Nashville one, and then I flew my husband out to Seattle with me to go to the other one.
How fun. It's really good.
I'm looking forward to it. It's so fun.
Here's why I'm saying that. You weren't going to do this anyway, and I think your daughter said absolutely no way, and I think it creates an unnecessary tension. She's 22.. She needs to pay the thing off herself anyway. There's a lot of reasons.
I want our audience to know. I just think, when I look at something like this, this is about the emotional, not the financial. Could you go to a Taylor Swift concert in the future? Yes, you could, but I think you're looking at this and you're going, oh my gosh, and who wouldn't consider the resale value? Believe me.
I would be thinking about it, but it comes down to it. I'll just say this. This is a personal anecdote. I'm no Swifty. She doesn't particularly do anything for me at all, but I have a 15-year-old daughter, and when my wife and I were in Europe last year for our 25th anniversary, we got a text from Sweet Josie, and she had gotten invited the night before to a Taylor Swift concert at the Titans football stadium, and so we were like, of course, you can go.
Have fun. It was a gift from her friend's dad, blah, blah, blah. All right, so we returned from Europe, and one of the first things I asked my daughter was tell me about that night, and to see her describe that night, and then I had a friend six weeks later, who worked for Taylor Swift's merch company. It was a new friend. We had cigars, and I say, really?
You work for Taylor Swift? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He goes, yeah. Do you want some merch for your daughter? I was like, you would make me dad of the year.
He put a bag, and I mean giant bag of Taylor Swift merch.
Was it Erez Tour stuff?
The latest tour on my front porch, and here's the story. Thank you, audience, for giving me a little latitude. When I walked in my house, Kelly, and said, Josie, come downstairs. I got a surprise for you. I told her the story.
I didn't buy this. This is from a friend of mine. She got it. She cried when she began to open up hoodies, long sleeve tees, t-shirts, and I said to myself, I don't get it, but I get it. My advice here is everything will be all right if we just keep dancing like we're 22..
Your daughter's 22.
She is.
It's perfect.
I don't know about you, but I'm feeling 22.
I had to pull the lyrics up. I cheated.
And she will not be down bed praying at the gym now, so we're going.
This is what happens when Dave goes out of town. This is the show that we all needed, America. This is it. This is the segment we all needed.
You can't be grumpy Grandpa Dave in this situation. Jill, this is bucket list. Make memories with your two daughters.
Yes, and then she needs to pay off that debt.
She needs to pay off the loan.
She needs to pay it off. Tell her to get to it.
Man, she's just getting through. to get the tickets was hard enough.
Jill knew the lyrics.
This is the Ramsey show.
Welcome to the Ramsey show, where we help you win in your life. We want you to win with your money, win in your relationships, and win in your profession. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. The phone number for you to jump in with your question is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225..
We started off this hour in Des Moines, Iowa. Kip is joining us there. Kip, how can we help?
Hey, so I'm 14.
. I live out in the country, and I have this mini business called Horselake Helpers, because it started in a little neighborhood called Horselake.
And my friend and I are wanting to expand out into the city because we think we've gotten most of the customers that are willing to let us work for them. And first, I just am wondering if you think it's a good idea to move into the city or stay where we're at. If we do move to the city, to send the postcards through mail, which is how I want to do it, or how my friend wants to do it, which is just to come up to their house and put the postcard in the mailbox.
All right, well, let me take that part of the question on first, because that's illegal. Everywhere in the United States, you can't put something in a mailbox that doesn't have postage on it. However, have you ever driven by a mailbox and seen a flyer stuck between the red flag and the mailbox? Interestingly enough, that's not illegal.
But I love the moxie of your partner on this deal. But let's not do anything illegal. But I think that I'd go another step further. I wouldn't do the flyer on the mailbox. I was just giving you an example of that.
I'd be knocking on doors and letting people look you right in the eye and tell them exactly what you're doing. I think the fact that you're 14...
Yeah, Kip, how old's your partner?
I love that.
How old's the business partner? He's 13..
What do you guys do?
How are y'all getting there? How are y'all getting to the city?
His dad will be taking us on the days that we have jobs.
What's your business again?
Horse Lake Helpers.
Now, what does that mean?
It's just the name of the neighborhood that it started in, and then helpers, because it sounds nice.
Oh, no, no, no. What are you helping people? What are you doing? What's the business?
Oh, okay. So, we do... The three things that we have marketed is walking dogs, mowing lawns, and washing cars.
Okay. Which of the three... Hold on a second. Which of the three do you do... I mean, rank those three services, walking dogs, mowing lawns, washing cars.
Rank those and how much you're doing. Which one is the most popular service?
Definitely the.
. Do you mean by how many times I've done it?
Who are they by? Are people wanting you to mow their lawn more than they are, wash their car, or they want you walking their dogs? What's the most popular service?
Walking dogs.
Oh, really? And what's next?
Then probably mowing lawn. I haven't had a car wash in a while.
Okay. All right.
Well, that's good. So, Kip, I mean, you're 14..
The answer is.
. Well, when school starts... I don't know. I'm like the mother hen here. I mean, I think entrepreneur...
I mean, we may have different takes on this. There's a part of me that I'm like, you know, I think expanding business and all of that. I think that's all great. I think it's all great. I also don't want you to get in over your skis, as some would say, that, you know, you're 14 and, you know, you have school and...
Okay. Hold on. Let me... I don't know.
I think you're doing an incredible job, Kip. I mean, we are all about this. This is how you make money. Like, honestly, if you're a teenager, instead of working at a fast food place, do this. Like, you're going to make so much more money.
But also, I don't know. Like, you're driving to other parts, maybe for the summer.
Let me dig in a little bit. All right. I appreciate the mother hen, but we got to find out if he's ready to expand. Okay. All right.
So, you and your buddy want to expand because you feel like you've run out of places to talk to about your three services. Clearly, the car washing thing, it's a no-go in your area. Nobody wants your service. So, there's a clue right there. All right.
But the dog walking seems to be.
. The reason why I asked what's the most popular is. I want to know where your market is. And so, in Des Moines, Iowa, suburbs, people want their dogs walked. Is that what I'm hearing?
Yeah. And you've run out of people who have dogs who might be interested. Is that what I'm hearing? Yes. All right.
So, how far is the city? How far of a drive are we talking about?
Probably, like, a 10-minute drive from my house.
Great.
Or maybe, like, seven from their house.
All right. So, we got to talk to dad. We got to talk to the dad or the adults in your life and go, if I schedule some dog walking, how is that going to inconvenience you all? Because, to Rachel's point, somebody's got to get you even seven to 10 minutes away to where you can walk Rover for somebody. Okay?
Now, the cutting of lawns, same deal. So, yeah. But you know what I would do? I would pick a couple of neighborhoods to target. And I'd talk to your mom and dad and all the adults in your life.
This is what I would do. And I would say, what are the wealthiest neighborhoods in Des Moines? Okay? Or whatever the city is. And that's where I would start, because I would want to start and test this idea of expanding.
And I'd go walking around the neighborhood and I would knock on doors, maybe put a little money into a nice flyer that show you and your buddy walking people's dogs.
We had.
. How long has this been open, Kip? How long have you guys been doing this? Probably around a year-ish. Okay.
That's great.
How much, by the way, do you charge to walk a dog?
It was originally $5 an hour. But our first client upped it up to $10 an hour over the winter because they wanted to keep us around. So, that's kind of become our main for everything else.
I love this, Kip. That's so great. Kip, you're amazing. I would raise my prices when I go to Des Moines, though. $10..
Let me tell you something. I've never lived in Iowa, but I know people who live in Iowa. And when the winter comes, you might as well be at the North Pole. So, if I'm walking Rover in the winter, that's $25 an hour right there. Right?
Okay.
Anyway, I'm not with Rachel. I disagree with the mother hen here. You should be trying to expand.
In seven minutes, it's better. When I heard all this, I'm thinking they're going to drive 45 minutes to do two dogs.
They ain't driving anywhere. He's 14 and his partner's 13..
The parent will be driving. Yes. I know. I know.
Although, I'll say this. I ride a bike seven to ten minutes. I made double that to ride a bike. when I was your age. I'd ride a bike.
I don't know if your parents would let you do that, but we need more of that in America.
Walk to school?
No. I never walked to school. Snow and all. But I rode my bike everywhere when I was 14.. We need more frickin' young people in America riding their bikes.
To walk the dog, you could ride your bike into the neighborhood. Just put the old kickstand down. I'm here to walk Rover.
There is a slight problem with that. We live down in a valley in the country, and there are giant hills everywhere.
It's good for your heart and your legs. Good for your heart and legs.
Kip, I think you're doing a great job. I do, too. I think. if you guys get a couple more customers and you schedule it well where it's convenient for the parent and your business partner and everything, I think it's great.
But wealthy neighborhoods.
Yeah. I was not trying to discourage the entrepreneur. But also, I don't know. There's a reality. Things shift in life very quickly at 14..
I love it. You're only getting younger.
I would say, Kip, I'm with Ken on this. If they can put a face with who's doing the work, I think it's really big. I had three girls. They're called the three blonde babysitters. It was on their flyer.
These three blonde girls, and they're about your age. There were 13, came and they knocked on every door in our neighborhood. They're like, we're mother's helpers. We can come and help throughout the summer.
They were so sweet.
Love that.
I was like, I almost just want you guys to come over.
I'll pay you. I'll pay you. There's something about Kip. I think you guys, yes, I think it's a good move. Knock on the doors.
Good for you, Kip. Good for you. Every dog owner I know, including this guy,
thinks our dog needs a big walk, but doesn't really enjoy doing it that much.
There you go. There's a need.
I have my teenagers do it.
They don't get any money. They get sustenance. Shelter.
They get shelter and food and electricity. All right.
I love the young entrepreneur, Kip. Go for it, buddy. This is the Ramsey Show.
This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is with me this hour. We're here for you. 888-825-5225 is the phone number here to help you win with your money.
You get some money questions. Hey, how do I budget? How do I keep more of it? How do I make more money? Happy to weigh in on some of those questions.
Speaking of money, we have been talking about this for a long, long time around. Ramsey Solutions helping a lot of people in almost every money problem. In fact, not almost, every money problem on some level has a budget component to it. It just does. We have created what we believe is the premier money budget tool there is.
We call it EveryDollar. I know you're a big fan of EveryDollar as well. What makes it so effective in your mind?
EveryDollar is a budgeting app. I think one of the things is the convenience of having an app on your phone, honestly, because we go everywhere with our phones. To have everything right there. to get to it, to see your numbers, I think, is one big thing. Then the second, just the way that we teach a zero-based budget and how to track expenses, how to give EveryDollar a name, all of that, you can walk through it on EveryDollar.
Your budget is there. It's fantastic. There's great analytics. Once you've been doing it a while, you can go in and see, okay, where have we overspent here? How much have we spent on average with food?
You can actually start to see your spending habits. EveryDollar, it's incredible. I actually tracked my transactions this morning, Ken. I think it's great. Winston and I, we use it every single, honestly, every day I open it for something to see, okay, how much do we have left here or there?
It just gives you intentionality around your money. I think that's the number one mistake people make with their money is they're not intentional. They don't have purpose to it. EveryDollar is that. You can actually download EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play, or go to EveryDollar.com.
You can do. slash, Rachel slash Ken. We'll be there. To be able for you to create your first budget, you can do that for free. Make sure you guys do that, because, seriously, being purposeful with your paycheck, it's one of the best ways to get control of not just your income but your entire money situation.
All right, let's go to Natalie, who is waiting for us in Cedar Falls, Iowa. Today feels like an Iowa day. Natalie, how can we help?
Well, I guess my question, it's kind of a long one, but to sum it up, I have followed the Dave Ramsey baby steps. Basically, I am a huge budgeter. I love staying on track. I'm more frugal. I like a simple lifestyle.
I enjoy working. I have an acreage that's fully paid off. I have vehicles that are paid off. I give riding lessons on the side. I work full-time at a full-time position.
I also teach a lot. I do a couple of different jobs. You always dream of growing up and getting married, but I'm 32.. I'm kind of like, okay, I don't know if that will happen. I really just want to live for Christ.
What does that look like? Then, financially, where do I put my money? as far as if I don't get married, where do you go ahead and invest that and where do you put it, and where does it make the most sense? Because I don't really want to slow down as far as the speed that I'm going, but I don't know exactly what the best way is to maximize resources and stuff at this point.
All right, so hold on. I heard a couple of things there, and I want to get to the heart of what this call is about. Is this about investing your money, or is this about marriage, and can I get married? Because I'm hearing a couple themes here, and it's come up a couple times.
I don't know which direction to run with. What do you mean? Well, I feel a little bit burnt out of, okay, what am I saving for? You're trying to save for, I mean, I totally am like, okay, having a family sounds great, but then I'm like, do I really want that? Because at the same time, I feel like sometimes guys can't keep up with me, and I'm like, okay, well, I don't want to slow down my life either.
Hold on a second. Hold on. Hold on. Have you had dating relationships? Is there some history behind that last comment that the guy can't keep up with me, or is this just all in your hypothetical, based on how so stinkin' productive you are?
Because let me just say this, Natalie, you got your stuff together. I mean, you're an impressive person. But back to that comment, is that coming from history, or are you projecting that on yourself?
It totally comes from things that other people have told me, whether past relationships I've been in or just family, being like, oh, you know, you've achieved a lot, so it's going to be hard to find somebody that can keep up. And I don't think that it should be that hard.
Time out. I'm doing a little digging here. All right. Your family's telling you this, or a dude or multiple dudes that you've been dating told you this? Give me the real, real.
Both.
Sometimes, really honestly, only one or two guys that I was with, that was just like, oh, you work a lot. And so, honestly, it's been guys that just don't want to work that hard. And I have dated guys before that do work really hard, so then it's never been an issue. Okay.
No, no, stop. Stop. That's what's going on. Just because you dated a couple duds doesn't mean that that's your situation. So I don't want to make this whole call about that, but I just kept hearing that.
pop up, Rachel. The marriage thing. And you're a go-getter and all that, but if you're dating duds, guys who don't want to work hard, then they don't have that. But let me ask, to me, the ultimate qualifying question. If you met the guy, this guy sweeps you off your feet, he works hard, he's successful, he's got a vision and a plan for his life, like you do, do you want that?
And do you want a family?
I think that's what I want. I think that's why I'm chasing. what I'm chasing. I think it's like I want to make my family as solid as possible. We didn't have much growing up, not financially speaking, and so I think I want to make my life as stable as possible.
Here's what's going on.
I want to give that to the future.
I'm going to bring Rachel in. I'm going to stop talking with all my questions, but I think I'm hearing someone who's burning herself out because you don't think you'll ever have enough. And if the guy doesn't come along on the white horse or whatever it is, girls, your age. think of these days, whatever the metaphor is, if the Prince Charming doesn't come in, am I going to have enough? If I don't have a family, will I have enough?
And I think that all comes from your upbringing, and you're going to have to start to own this and go, I've got this massive fear about spending money or doing anything fun, and that's why I'm working all the time, because I'm just so afraid. Rachel, that's what I'm hearing. What are you hearing?
Yeah, I think that's totally fair. I mean, yeah, nothing you said, Natalie, makes me think, oh, my gosh, you're like in this dire situation, and you need to be having three jobs and all of this, right? And again, and if you enjoy it, though, and you're like, you know, I don't really have much else going on. And so I enjoy this and I enjoy that, and I'm going to make money. You know, it's all about the motivation.
And that's what I think Ken's point was. If the motivation is out of this kind of toxic, unhealthy fear, because I think spenders can get a bad rap of like, oh, my gosh, they're so irresponsible. They're so irresponsible. Oh, my gosh, my gosh. I think savers, Natalie, like you, can also need to have a bad rap in a sense that saving is not wrong.
Obviously, we are for saving. We are for planning for the future. But there is a level where money becomes an unhealthy part of your life, where it almost becomes a god.
Yeah, you're afraid to enjoy life.
Yeah, and you're chasing this number. You're chasing this thing thinking, okay, once I get that, I'm going to feel okay. But the problem is you'll get there and then you'll think, oh, I probably should do like one more year of that. And the finish line just keeps moving. So there is a contentment piece.
And that's not laziness or apathy, but there is a level of peace, Natalie, I want you to have with your money. And people don't have that peace when you're living paycheck to paycheck and you got $20,000 in credit card debt and you're, you know, losing a job and no emergency fund. Like there's an unrest that money can cause. But your situation, and I think Ken went off on his questions, which was great. So I kind of forgot the beginning of your story of like your situation specifically.
But you're not in a dire financial place.
No, I'm not at all. And I did buy a horse, like. that was just like a horse that I wanted to buy. And I spent quite a bit of money on it and bought it like just for myself. And so I'm going to show her this year.
And so that was totally, and like, totally like it made sense.
So, yeah, so I think, going forward, Natalie, I would, because you're debt free, right? And you have an emergency fund.
Yeah, just invest the way we teach.
What's your housing situation? Do you own a home?
I do. And that's just kind of like, do I, like, I mean, I have three acres. I have an arena. Like, so I just, I really have the things that I want. But then it's like, okay, do I go a little bit bigger or what do I go about?
No, I think you're good.
I think, keep investing and keep enjoying. You know, when you get to that point, giving more, saving more and spending more is kind of the three buckets that you want to tap into. And I would do that. Yeah, to enjoy. And I think that there are guys out there, Natalie, that 100% would not be intimidated and would actually value and respect and love that about you.
But can I also say, be careful not to try to marry somebody who's exactly the way you are with money.
Well, yeah, not unrealistic expectations. Sure, everyone's got their stuff. You're going to end up in therapy, no matter who you're married to. Right, Ken? Okay.
Amen, Kelly.
No, I'm not raising my hand on that one. I'm staying away from that one.
Stacey.
Yeah. Yeah. She's the one that needs the therapy, let's be honest. All right, quick break. I'll call a therapist.
This is The Ramsey Show.
The Ramsey Show continues. We are continuing to take your calls and answer your questions about the challenges you're having with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. All three of those areas come into contact, and you want to be winning in all three areas, and that's the focus of our conversation. You and your life. 888-825-5225..
I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour, and let's get right back to the phones. Milwaukee, Wisconsin is where Drew is. Drew, how can we help?
Hey, you guys. Can you hear me all right?
Yes, sir.
Awesome. Now I'll get right into it. I'm getting married this December, and so January 1st, 2025, our finances are going to combine. I'm trying to figure out, because she's coming in midway through physical therapy school with $50,000 in student debt and $50,000 more left to pay. Should I be trying to pay down the debt after we're together or cash flowing the school?
I can't do both.
Okay, would it be cash flowing the school in January?
Correct.
Yeah, I mean, I would. I would look at cash flowing first and then going to pay off debt after that, after she's graduated, and everything.
Even if that means the debt stays and they're at, like, 7% interest rate, so that I just let them sit there and grow?
Yes, because the alternative is what? Taking out a loan for 50 more, and that's not what you want.
Is there anything with-?
Yeah, I guess my thought was just. it would be paid down by then. Go ahead.
How much do you have saved?
About $35,000.
. Okay. So I could chuck that all towards the debt and then-.
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