Flightless Bird: Pies

I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander, accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. One thing I love about America is that it really loves celebrating different days of the week. It finds all kinds of excuses to do this, mostly focused around food, because America loves eating. And so there's Ice Cream Day on July 21st, Burger Day on May 28th, and Pie Day on January 23rd, not to be confused with Pie, the Number Day, which is on March 14th. Woohoo!

National Pie Day, and we're excited to celebrate with a New York staple.

Pie is like the perfect dessert.

It is.

And so, while I'm months late, it's today that we turn to Pie Day. The food, not the number. I went to NationalDayCalendar.com to find out more about Pie Day, where it told me the first pie was created around 9500 BC, during the Egyptian Neolithic period. Over 10,000 years later, in 1986, America decided it loved pies so much, it declared January 23rd National Pie Day. The day was created by the American Pie Council, because of course that's a thing, and America has been celebrating it ever since.

I love pie. I'm so excited for this episode.

Your face lit up as the intro was playing, which I liked.

Yes. It lit up a little brighter than beavers.

Your face dropped. Beavers? Why the fuck are we doing, beavers?

Maybe everyone should run these topics by me.

Things are getting out of hand. It's confronting for me, because, as you know, when I think pie, I think meat pie. Exactly. And so this has been a real rollercoaster.

Can you start by saying your thoughts on American pie, not the movie?

I love sugar. Since being in America, I've had bits of pies. You saw me at Thanksgiving stuffing my face. There is a problem, though recently, where I have got new medical insurance, and so I've been to my new doctor.

PPO?

PPO.

Finally.

I'm on a PPO, which I feel very grateful. It's very expensive, which I'm not happy with. But I went to my new doctor. He was lovely, handsome, charming.

Single?

Don't know. Didn't get that far. Might need to ask. His nurse drew my blood, and my bloods came back. And, for the first time in my entire life, my cholesterol's higher than it should be.

Okay. Yeah, my cholesterol's high.

Whenever I've got results back, anything, STIs, cholesterol, I don't know, whatever else is in blood. Perfect.

Perfect, right?

A plus.

Yeah.

America. It's done something to me.

No, David.

It's done something to me.

I think it's age. You're not going to like to hear that.

Oh, this is horrific.

But the older you get, the more commonplace this is.

Because my whole life, what I've done is I sort of eat what I want. Yeah. And in America, I've been eating. I eat a lot of pizza. Sure.

Do you ever cook dinner? Or do you always order?

No, that's why I like this meal delivery service stuff. Oh, right. Because that's really good for me. Factor, who's a sponsor at some point, I like Factor. That works for me.

It's hard.

It's hard. And I'm not a good cook. Whereas you love cooking. Yeah. I don't.

I think you're right. I think cholesterol. Ooh. Did you do any stats on this? Or we should.

It's a whole other episode.

We know we have obesity issues. Yeah. And those poorly.

But cholesterol in general.

I have, genetically, I have high cholesterol. I've had it since I was just a wee baby.

Oh, your genes-.

When I moved to the United States.

When you moved to America.

Yeah.

Never going to let that go. Yeah. Let's take our daughter to America. Let's take our high cholesterol baby. What will cure her?

Yeah. So I have it genetically. And then recently, I guess, last year. Okay. It was quite high.

This is all new to me. I'm in panic at the moment. Which is why, going into this pies episode. I was worried. Because pies isn't recommended to keep the cholesterol down.

You know, it's kind of like when we did Loma Linda. And we were trying to learn about longevity. And really it's just the most basic thing ever. Which is, eat vegetables. Yeah.

Okay. So this is what's happened to me then. Okay. My age. Yeah.

Oh yeah.

I'm not sleeping as well. Because of that fucking ghost that comes in at three. So all those have combined.

We gave him a name.

Frank.

No. It wasn't Frank. No. Damn it.

I don't call him by his name. Peter. Peter.

I can't remember.

Peter is Calvin's ghost.

Oh, right. Ew. That one really creeps me out. Anyway.

So, look. So I just wanted to say at the top. Yeah. I've got high cholesterol. Yeah.

Okay. So how is exercise. Have you been dipping back in?

I walk a lot. That's great. I brisk, walk up a hill. That's good. And I swim.

Oh yeah. So many portals.

In New Zealand, you get email stuff to your inbox. In America, every institution you're a part of, there's a portal. You log in. There's security measures. They're texting your phone.

I can never get into mine. When I was sick, I went to the urgent care and I couldn't get in to pay my bill.

Everyone's like, get to the portal. Go to the portal.

I eventually. You guys gotta do the face password.

I'll do that. Yeah. I've just set that up on my phone. And it's like, do you do it in your browser or in your app on your phone? It's C to Sinai.

Cedars is great.

Why the hell? Why have you got two? Make it one.

Well, Cedars is a very reputable hospital.

Oh, I'm over the moon.

I'm there. Okay. Hold on. What did they say in your portal?

Should I try and get into this portal now? Yeah. I'll tell you.

I can get in my portal. It sounds sexual. It's like, get into my portal. Can't get into her portal.

This doctor told me to get into his portal.

Okay. So I'm logging in. now. I'm typing in my username, which I'm not going to tell you.

Don't let me into her portal.

Okay. I'm logging in now. Okay. I'm clicking sign in.

Get into your portal, David.

Okay. Here we go. Dr. Andrew. This is what he said.

Oh shit.

I can't get dementia.

Uh oh.

Your calculated 10 year risk for atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease is 1.4%.

Okay. That's really low.

It's low, isn't it?

What's the number, David?

Okay. So I'm going to go into a different part of the portal.

Yeah.

Let's see. Test results. Chlamydia. Nothing. HIV.

Uh, oh. Yes. That's bad.

You want to be under 150 milligrams per DL. I'm 217..

150 is the-.

150 is what you want. I'm 217.. That's not good, David. So I'm 67 above.

Yeah. That's bad. Okay. And triglycerides-.

It's not helping my panic.

Sorry. But triglycerides are the thing. I mean, there's a lot of bad stuff, but triglycerides is one we do got to watch.

When I went-.

What are your triglycerides? Mine was 600.. And I- Oh.

Fucking hell.

No. I was like, I'll be dead.

Oh, so, you must have been experiencing complete panic.

Yes. Because it was crazy. And my doctor said, I think there's something wrong. So we had to retake it.

Something's wrong. And did it come down, or that was you?

Yeah. It was not 600.. 600's dead. I mean, you're dead.

Was it around 200?. Am I higher than you or lower?

Oh, should I look at my portal?

Can you look at your portal? My LDL is 113.. It's meant to be under 100, so it's not as bad.

That's not too bad.

And my non-HDL cholesterol is 147, when it's meant to be under 130, which is not that bad.

What's your ratio? The ratio's very important.

I've said too much already. This is so personal.

It really is.

Is there anything more personal than your blood? I don't think there is.

Well. Where your lumps are.

Your sperm.

Oh, the lump.

Is it time for you to tell us? No. Like, a lot? So much time has passed.

The triglycerides I need to sort out. How's your portal going?

Anyone? Okay, yeah, I got my-.

Face recognized. You're in on your app.

My triglycerides were 103, so they're fine.

Oh, my God. You're making me feel- That's so low. I'm 217..

But let me make you feel better. My LDL is 184.. This was in June of last year.

Okay, mine's 113 right now.

And it should be less than 100.. So 184 is bad, which affects my overall cholesterol, which is 274 and should be less than 200..

Did you feel the feeling of panic? I mean, I felt really worried. I feel really worried.

I felt really worried that my triglycerides were 600, but I've been high my whole life, so it's not that startling. Also, my HDL, your good cholesterol, is also high, so that's good.

That is good. Yeah, that is a good one.

So that also affects it. Now, my ratio is 4, and it should be under 5., And that's really the thing that matters.

Oh, yeah. 4.7.. It's meant to be under 5.. Under 5, so you're fine.

You're fine.

That gasp doesn't say fine, Monica.

Well, it's just awfully close to-.

That's what the doctor said.

I think we should get your HDL up.

Yeah, okay.

To help this ratio.

Okay, so look what I've done. The last two weeks, I've been on salads. Oh, good.

Oh, wow.

I used to eat a lot of eggs. I'm not eating eggs. No, that's a fallacy. Yeah, no. Okay.

What's your sugar look like?

Oh, look, let's move on. Look, this is stressful. My point is-.

Don't stress out. It's fine. It's fine.

It's going to get higher if you stress.

Actually, yeah, exactly.

Oh, God. Sweating. Heart rate's elevated.

None of this is dire, right? Did they say you need to get on a statin or something?

No, they said no meds. Then you're fine, yeah. They just said get your diet sorted out.

Okay, pies.

I've got a couple of other bits of admin. I'm going to save a bit of admin for in between the documentary. Okay. But just before we start, and this is important, we got a lot of feedback to the Lord of the Rings episode. we did.

Yeah, people were upset by that.

It's a bit like when I did-.

Waffle House. Waffle House. Yeah, that was a nightmare.

And I get it. And part of my brain, I'm a bit chaotic, and part of my brain knew there'd be anger about doing a Lord of the Rings episode without watching the movies. So a couple of things. Okay. First off, in that episode, I commented that Orlando Bloom has sort of vanished.

So are you going to do an episode on that and also not watch it?

I want to do an episode on Orlando Bloom.

Yeah, that'd be cool.

Because he's an amazing film.

He's not American, though.

Where's he from? Canadian?

No, he's not British.

United Kingdom. He was born in the United Kingdom.

Oh, UK. Okay. He's not doing an episode on Orlando. But I wanted to apologize to him. And another thing, because so many people were a bit annoyed that I got the plot a bit wrong, I got Rob to show his son, Calvin, Lord of the Rings, the first one.

Well, we'll find out.

Oh.

Afterwards, Rob got Calvin to review the film.

Oh, my God. I can't wait.

And so this is a little mini review from Calvin. Oh, my gosh. Reviewing his first viewing of Lord of the Rings.

You just watched the first Lord of the Rings movie, right?

Yes.

Can you tell me what it was about?

It's about a ring that was made by a master, and they're trying to break it because the master was a bad guy. But they can't use any of their tools to break the ring, because what it made was this fire, and only a volcano and lava can break it. They're trying to get on this island, and they're trying to escape, but they landed on another island in the last Lord of the Rings movie. But these goblins, this goblin was too powerful, and he hid three bow and arrows in one of the good guys, and he died because he was too powerful, and you couldn't see him. And there's too many goblins that he had to fight at once.

There's a lot of characters in it, right? Mm-hmm. Do you remember them?

There's Frodo, and Sam, and that's all I can remember. There's like eight of them, or maybe there's seven or six.

There was such a kid thing to tell.

Twelve given to the men, nine to the elves, and three to the dwarves. It was actually a trick, because the rings were bad, and if you put them on, you turn into his command, and you turn into a bad guy.

So he had given out all those rings, but then there was one ring that would rule them all, right?

Uh-huh. It was one given to the master.

But there's this man that defeated him and cut his hand off, but then he got killed because all the bad guys wanted that ring too bad, and then it got left in the dirt, but the ring was also a trap, and he's still alive, but only his eyes left. And it got left in the dirt, and then Frodo found it, and they're trying to break it and put it in a volcano, and then it'll break up into dust.

Did you like the first movie? Mm-hmm. Did you think it was too long, too short?

It was three hours. It was pretty long.

Would you recommend this movie to other people?

Mm, yeah.

Was it too scary, too funny? It was, like, perfect.

It was perfect. Perfect, man.

Are you excited to watch the next ones?

Uh-huh.

I bet they're gonna try to destroy it, but the bad guy's gonna try to get them, and he's gonna get his ring back.

All right. We'll check back in after you finish the second one, okay?

Okay. Bye. Learn and subscribe.

What?

Like and subscribe. Oh, my God. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

He just added like and subscribe.

That broke me as well. How old is Calvin?

He's seven.

It killed me. I did the same thing, Monica. I was like, did he just...

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

He knows to say that?

Just from me and being around podcasts.

Yeah. It's really good.

But still, we don't say that.

I know. We don't, but it's a thing, though.

Yes. Like, you do hear it so often, and also, that was amazing. recall. That was incredible. Your son's amazing.

He's so smart. He said a really big vocab word in there.

I didn't even know what it was, looking up in the dictionary. So, we're going to get him to review the other two films. I love this. And we'll bring those reviews to you, Flightless Bird listeners.

We know that you love Aura Frames. Every day. Mom loves Aura Frames.

Every other day, I send a fresh photo of me in America to my parents' Aura Frame.

Oh, that's sweet.

Because they're not on Facebook, and they don't really, like, e-mails, are kind of like, eh. Whereas, if it just magically pops up on their frame, then it's great. I had the photo shifting through every half hour, and Mom demanded that I change it to, like, 30 seconds. She just sat there, glued to her frame, like the TV.

Yes, that's great. The display, it's meticulously calibrated, high resolution, so it's nice.

Oh, yeah, it looks like a frame. Exactly. It's like, there's a photo, except, in case of my mom, it's, like, shifting every, like, 10 seconds. But I like to set them to shift every two hours. Yeah, that's great.

David. Monica. Have you talked to your therapist about your lump? Does your therapist know where your lump is?

I told the therapist about the lump because it was so stressful that week. And they said, go to your doctor.

They do. And then it makes everything worse. It makes your body completely shut down. So, yeah, you refused to share your lump with us. But I'm glad you did share it with somebody.

Yeah, because therapy is a safe space to get things off your chest. And to figure out how to work through whatever's weighing you down without having to tell your friends about it.

And BetterHelp is amazing because it's entirely online. And it's convenient. It's flexible. It's suited to your schedule. That's the main thing people say about therapy.

Totally. And if for any reason you don't like the therapist you get matched with, then you can just swap and get someone else. So get it off your chest with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash bird today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp.

That was so cute. I can't believe it. Like and subscribe.

Yeah, you better like and subscribe to this feed. Okay, Pies. He's so cute.

He's so cute.

Let's begin our exploration of American Pies.

This is great.

Oh, yeah.

My name is Stacey Mae Ann Fong, and I'm a baker and an author of pie cookbooks.

The second I'd seen Stacey's cookbook sitting on a bookstore shelf, I knew she was the one I needed to talk to for this episode. Her book is called 50 Pies, 50 States. The result of her traveling to each American state to try their favorite pie.

So there's 50 pies in the book, one for every state. There is also a pie for DC. I had to do the nation's capital.

Which is what, by the way?

The DC pie is a cherry pie as an ode to the lore of George Washington cutting that cherry tree down.

I also wanted to talk to Stacey, because she's a bit like me and that she wasn't born in America. She chose to make it her home.

So I have grown up enamored with America from watching American movies and listening to a lot of American music with my dad. My dad loves Simon and Garfunkel, Bread, The Carpenters. I have a big affinity for old country music, like John Prine, Loretta Lynn, Dolly Parton's, my favorite person on the planet, because it's all about storytelling. And I think what's wonderful too about the music, it is country music, but it's storytelling of America.

Before we got into it, I wanted to make sure we were both on the same page about what pie means, what it consists of. Coming from New Zealand, if you say pie, what you mean there is a meat pie. You never think fruity pie. When you were growing up and you thought pie, what was the thing that would jump to mind?

I thought meat pie because I also grew up playing rugby and netball, and afterwards you would go to a tuck shop and get a meat pie. Pie for me was only meat. And I didn't know there was so many sweet pies until we would come here on vacation. My dad worked in hotels, and so there would be these buffets of all these different kinds of pies. And I was like, what is going on?

Once you'd moved to New York, Stacey decided to embrace the sweet pies of America. So much so, she ended up becoming an American citizen. It was while waiting for her citizenship that her true pie journey began.

While I was doing the laborious amount of paperwork, spending all that money, trying to stay in this country, I thought it'd be really fun to bake my way through the country as a way to learn about this country. Kind of how you have this podcast, to kind of learn about all these nuances. I decided to learn about each state by pie, because when you travel to all these different countries, like if you go to, like Portugal or Italy or Spain, you have a list of things you want to eat from there. I feel like people rarely do that with the United States or even the hometown that they're from. And I thought I would exercise my Nora Ephron, Nancy Meyers, rom-com grand gesture and dedicate each state pie to a person that I know from that state.

Okay, on to the pies. There are over 50 pies in her cookbook, but we don't have all day. I wanted to know what ones really popped for her, which ones she really recommends. I wanted a top three. Say you're going on a date and you don't know much about the person, but you really know you want to impress them.

My God, this is so hard. I would probably make the pie I did for Vermont, which is an apple pie with a cheddar cheese crust. I love that pie so much because my buddy, Pete's grandpa, always used to say a pie without the cheese is like a kiss without the squeeze. And in Vermont, you traditionally eat an apple pie with a slice of cheddar, which I really like because it's a mix of sweet and salty. So it really amps up the apple flavor.

Of course, for this episode, I needed to go and eat some pie just to start wrapping my taste buds around the idea that pies in my life are no longer meat pies, but sweet pies. And so I got Stacey to advise me on what American pies I should try where I am right now, Los Angeles.

Do it. Apple, cherry, and then a lemon meringue or something that has a floofy top, a big whipped top. See if you can find a lemon meringue. Lemon meringue pies are probably wonderful in L.A. because you guys have great citrus out there.

Okay, I had my assignment. Apple, cherry, and lemon meringue.

Where are they from?

They're from House of Pies, because it's close. I know it's not the fanciest, but it's kind of iconic.

Rob's face.

Where would you get your pies from in L.A.? Where should I go next time for Pies Part 2, when the cholesterol level has dropped?

Okay, there's a few. I love Winston's.

Winston's is going to be what I said.

Winston's is incredible. There's a pie place. I got some pies for Thanksgiving. It's downtown.

The one that I sent you to, Destroyer?

No, I didn't end up getting that.

Oh, those were insane.

As you talk, I'm just going to chop these up. I've got a plate for each of you, a little selection of each. God, didn't you love what she said?

I loved everything. Fat and flour.

A pie without the cheese?

So good.

A pie without the cheese is like a kiss without the squeeze.

I loved that.

Did you have Baker's Square in Georgia?

No.

Is it a chain? Yeah, it's like a diner.

We didn't have that.

They had really good pie. They had a French silk pie. that was incredible.

Okay, French silk is a very elusive pie. It's very hard to find these days. I think they were at cafeterias and stuff originally.

Yeah, Baker's Square, that was always my go-to. I'd get French silk pie.

I do love a chocolate pie.

And then there was a really good place, Mindy's Hot Chocolate in Chicago. You took us there! Which we went to. It's now just Mindy's Bakery, but she does insane pies.

Did we have pie when we went? I don't remember.

I think we had her dessert. We had the burgers and dessert, which that's my favorite burger of all time too.

But it's gone now?

She just went back to bakery.

Okay, Monica, I'm going to pass you over a little slice of each pie. You've tried all these probably hundreds of times.

Well, before we begin, should I start with my negative thoughts?

Yeah, please.

Get those out. I like your assignment. I think she was right, because citrus in LA, it's good. I just am never getting a lemon meringue pie. I'm never picking that.

I did notice, I kept it in the fridge. As I drove over here, it has melted a lot. The lemon is very goopy. It wasn't like this when I bought it.

It kind of looks like pineapple.

But don't you love the meringue-y part? Like the fluff? What's your beef?

My beef is, I don't love just lemon flavored things in general. And then, yeah, the meringue, it's not for me.

It's not for you? Okay, no, fair.

But I'm going to try this.

Okay, give it a go. I've never tried.

Apple is definitely one of my all-time faves.

Okay, I'm going to try the lemon meringue now.

Should we do lemon meringue first? Yeah.

I feel that cholesterol spiking.

You like, okay.

I like the base.

It's very floofy. It's so floofy.

It's sort of refreshing. having the lemon. Gives the illusion of sort of freshness and health perhaps.

Yeah, okay, let me have a small bite of that.

Should note, Rob's getting very close to the camera. Taking photos for this episode.

It's actually not as bad as I thought.

I'm giving this lemon meringue a 7 out of 10..

But it kind of tastes like a cola. It's very sweet.

It's very sweet.

Yeah.

Not good for the diabetes. Okay, cherry next?

Okay, yeah, let's do cherry. Also, just throwing out there, I don't ever pick cherry either. But I like a fruit pie in general, so.

This is my first ever cherry pie.

The crust is nice. This tastes like a Pop-Tart.

I've never had a Pop-Tart.

What?

Yeah, okay, this is probably another thing I need to do. Yeah, I've never had one.

Oh, my God.

It's like a bit of toast, but with sweetness.

It's not toast. It's more like a pastry, but it's processed.

And you put it in the toaster and it pops up?

Mm-hmm.

Okay. I think I've seen the commercials for it.

But they have cherry one, and there's like a jam.

I'd give the cherry one an 8 out of 10..

Wow. These are high numbers. I wish we had Winston's. Okay, it's okay. I love this.

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Okay, this is apple. Oh, I like this.

Right? Apple pie is so good.

Yeah, apple pie is the one, isn't it?

Yeah, it is.

This is a 10..

This doesn't have cheddar, but that's fine.

Oh, that blew my mind. I didn't know you got cheese involved.

It's very Midwestern. This is nice. The apple is very spiced, which is good. Mmm.

Yeah, those are... Look, I feel more American. So apple is your fave. Apple is my fave, by far. Loved apple.

You didn't get any chocolate pies, which is a big part of pies.

And pumpkin pie. Have you had pumpkin pie?

I had that at Thanksgiving. And that was great.

I need my tea lime at Thanksgiving.

Oh, delicious.

Which is great as well.

So I have a sweet tooth. I don't think there's a pie that I wouldn't consume, to be honest. But I am blown away by the creativity America has. I didn't realize there were so many pies. So many.

Yeah. My friends, I think I said this on maybe another episode. My friends, Lizzie and Joe, shout out, when they got married, they loved pie. And so do I. So they invited me over for pie taste testing for their wedding.

Oh, and that would be elite pie. That would be best of the best, right?

They did have some House of Pies options. They had Winston's. They had a couple others. There's some that are very niche. Like you have to go to someone's house and in their backyard, there's like a whole thing.

Yeah, combo.

So good.

I feel it's a bit like barbecue, where people have their spots to go and their places and their different type. Yeah, it feels the same sort of levels of passion involved.

Do you think you, in general, would like a chocolate pie, more or less than a fruit pie?

I don't know what you're talking about. No, I understand chocolate. But how do you get chocolate into a pie? Because pie is a texture.

It's like meringue-y. I mean, it depends on the kind.

Here. So this is like what French silk looks like. It's more mousse-y.

Oh, it looks amazing. Yeah. I mean, I love chocolate. So it'll be up my alley. I just wasn't sure about the texture.

The fruit, yeah.

And it's healthy because it's fruit. What did you think about that Minnesota pie? she mentioned that she loved? The corn dog hot dish pie with the savory funnel cake. That?

It was wild. I don't know that that one's for me. Because how can it be a savory funnel cake? You've had funnel cake, though, right? Funnel cake is at amusement parks.

No, I haven't done funnel cake.

Oh, my God.

We didn't do that one. Was it at Disney when we went there? Would I have got it there?

Yeah, they would have had it.

No, I haven't had it.

It's an amusement park staple. How would we describe it?

Funnel cake. Fried dough with powdered sugar on top.

Yeah, that's right. Oh, that sounds great.

It looks like this.

Corn dogs. Okay. No, I haven't had that before.

But she made it savory, but it's very sweet. So she must be adding pepper.

Right, but isn't that just chucking the cheese onto the apple or something? I guess so.

I learned about cheese on apple pie late in life. Right. That wasn't a thing I was exposed to. I don't think I've ever had an apple pie with the slice of cheese. I want that.

Oh, I love cheese as well. What's that like for the cholesterol? Bad dairy.

It's not great. But just do moderate. If you do it in moderation, it's fine. Yeah. But I have had apple pie with cheddar cheese in the crust.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, it's so good.

Have you done pie hole?

Pie hole's. good. Yeah, I have. I have.

I've had a really good pecan pie and a Mexican chocolate pie.

Mexican chocolate. Oh, my God. It's endless. You could die having not eaten all of America's pies. She's gone to every state.

Pecan, is really important that you try. Okay. Oh, wait, maybe you had it at Thanksgiving.

I think you did at Thanksgiving.

Oh, Thanksgiving. Yeah, it was intense.

This is another type of chocolate pie. Okay. Chocolate cowgirl from Winston.

That's who I'm looking at.

It has a rich chocolate filling, a responsibly sourced Ecuadorian chocolate, and a salty oak crust. Oh, la la. Topped with a drizzle of handmade fresh caramel. Fudge-like texture with just the right amount of sweetness. It's really nice.

Okay, so just quickly, before we go on to part two.

I'm like eating Milky Way pie right now.

What's the pie that you have, your final meal pie? What are you having? I can only pick one. Like right now, I'm having the apple. I love the apple.

Okay.

What are you having?

I think if I have one pie left. Oh, I also love the strawberry rhubarb. I think I'm going apple as well.

Yeah, it's the simplicity, I think.

It is.

Yeah, okay, apple pie.

The milk bar pie is insane. They used to call it crack pie.

Crack pie.

But it's the like caramel, buttery. I've had it at my house with you.

Yeah, I like that pie.

It was so good.

Ah, this is yummy.

Just like the rest of the episode, should just be us listing pies.

It kind of does feel like that. I mean pie is so funny, listening to the doc and really realizing. Because you mentioned it, but it's hard for me to really wrap my head around the fact that we just really are in our silos. That you hear pie and you don't think of this.

Yeah, absolutely.

It's so interesting.

And there's a few times American friends have come to visit me in New Zealand and I haven't clocked it. Because I'm like, we're going to get a pie. And they're kind of like, oh, it's a weird thing to get for lunch. Right. And I should point out as well that when I say in New Zealand we're eating meat pies.

It's like a hot pocket. Yeah.

That's what I'm talking about. So we're not like feasting on these giant, meaty, massive pies.

Because even our chicken pot pie is the shape of a big pie.

Right. Everything's big. Yeah. Right. So you'd have to slice it up.

I mean they do have individual size pot pies.

But it's not typical. A typical meat pie in New Zealand is tiny. Right.

Your typical pot pie is, you'd bake it like a big pie. Oh, I want to make that soon. Alison Roman has a recipe that I've been wanting to make, a chicken pot pie recipe.

I feel like maybe we need to do a chicken pot pie episode where they came from. I'm sure there's an origin story.

Well, Marie Callender, frozen food, that's the quintessential pot pie. The frozen pot pie. I mean I don't know if that's how, it's probably not how it started. But that's just like the Salisbury steak. You should do a frozen foods episode.

That's a really good idea. We touched on it briefly in the ice episode. But there's so, that's like a whole world.

It's such a world.

I love this.

And it's a big part of America. Like the Salisbury steak in this, I guess 70s or maybe 50s, I'm not going to go times, was a huge part of American dinner, dining.

Oh, I love this. Yeah. Because I've embraced the Trader Joe's frozen meals. Like. I think, if you're like a sad, alone person, you go to Trader Joe's and like there's these individual, they're like marketed to people like me.

There's no point in him nourishing himself.

Anyway, frozen foods, a great episode.

Okay, great.

Okay. So in the final part of the stock, it actually lines up quite nicely with what we just came to, the conclusion of, which is that apple pie is the best pie.

Okay. We're going to get some hate.

Am I right in thinking the apple pie is the American pie, right? That is the main one. That's America's pie.

I think it's because pie is one of those things in American history that they've always kept on the table in some way. So there's a series of pies that were created here, called desperation pies, and these were pies that were made out of not necessarily financial depression, even though there is a pie that was made during the great depression, but it was about seasonal depression, when you didn't have fresh fruit. So there are all these pies, like the vinegar pie that was created in Appalachia, and that's supposed to mimic the tartness of apples. And the water. pie comes from the great depression, which it tastes like crispy cream donut glaze in the center of a pie.

Is there a pie that you just hate on a personal level? Is there a specific pie that you're like, no, that's not for me?

It's pumpkin. I'm so sorry to everybody that absolutely loves pumpkin. It's just not for me. Or anything with a jello in it. I'm weird about the texture of jello.

Statistically, Stacey's an aberration. According to the American Pie Council, pumpkin pie is a big business, especially for Thanksgiving, with over 50 million pumpkin pies eaten every November. Now, before I left Stacey, I had one more question. One more question for the pie expert, who's explored way more of America than I have. Completely unrelated to the pies, or maybe it is related to the pies, do you have a place you ended up in America that really surprised you or stands out in a positive way?

South Dakota completely blew me away. I had never ever been any place like it. It felt like the moon, mainly because there was barely anyone on the roads. I saw an actual tumbleweed, which was the most amazing thing in the entire world. Also, the culture and the deep-rooted food that's available in South Dakota that isn't available anywhere else, and the landscapes.

I saw my first tumbleweed in Roswell, New Mexico, and I thought I was hallucinating. They're so big.

They're so big.

And there were so many of them, and they're on the fucking road. It's actually a whole. other topic I need to do is fucking tumbleweeds. You've just reminded me.

You have to do tumbleweeds. When I saw a tumbleweed was like when I was in college here and saw a red solo cup for the first time. It was like, these exist. This is for real. I bought a 12-pack of them back to Hong Kong with me my first break, and I was like, you guys, it's real.

Future episodes incoming. Red cups and tumbleweeds. But for now, I've got about 47 other pie flavors to try.

Okay, you have to do an episode on red solo cups. You can also get blue, but red's the color.

Oh my God. 50 Pies, 50 States is the book. It's an amazing book. I'm getting it. And I should say, so.

I'm excited. I'm going to buy it.