Maria Bamford

And I feel excited about being Conan O'Brien's friend if he needs my friendship, also don't want to push it on him.

Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walking blues, climb the fence, books and pens. I can tell that we are going to be friends, I can tell that we are going to be friends. Hey there, this is Conan O'Brien. Welcome to Conan O'Brien.

Why is everyone laughing? You gave it such a buildup, like it was going to be something revolutionary. You did weird voices with your mouth. I warmed up, I went, and then I went, Hey there, this is Conan O'Brien, welcome to.

Conan O'Brien needs a friend. Ah, the podcast that gives and gives and gives, and then eventually gives out. That's the key. Sitting here with, of course, Matt Gorley, Matt, how are you?

Hi, I'm good, thanks. Usually, I introduce Sona first, but I thought I'd flip it up, show you that I'm agile. I have an agile mind. Sona, how are you? I shake things up.

How are you introducing Matt first? Yeah, yeah, you never know what's going to happen here. Keep it fresh.

Keep it fresh. How are you? I'm good, I'm not bad, I'm cool.

Okay, all right, very good. Do you want me to say more? no?

I think that's adequate. You did the minimum amount that you should do. I am fine, and you, I think AI is.

Do you think AI can ever replace Sona? Everyone's talking about what AI can do. There already are AI podcasts of, say, Joe Rogan, and I'm sure there's already been some of you, you think so?

Yeah, probably. I think this is very easily AI-able. I don't know. My mind is so hard to program or categorize, I could see algorithms being confused by my magical brain, really.

Because the listeners should know that Sona and I are just sitting in a room with an AI machine. I think the two of you are not AI-able, but I think I am. I laugh and I just go, Oh God, me me me me me me me me me me me me, me me. That's what I do and that's fine.

You're right, yeah, we could probably just take clips of Sona. Yeah, oh, absolutely.

Oh boy, huh? oh, really, really, that's what you think.

Yeah, yeah, and then we just split her salary. Well, I would retain it all, I believe. Oh, what's in it for me then?

Oh, nothing, you get nothing, and I get more falcons.

I really got into falconry over the summer. Yeah, oh, you did. Wouldn't it be great if that was something I got into? And I had the glove and I had a whole bunch of falcons. And they had the little blinders on, and I had the jackets that they wear when they. You should do that.

No, you'd be the least falcony guy that's ever falconed, because you'd just be like this the whole time. Like covering your face, cowering, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd wear a you know what people wear when they're fencing.

I'd wear one of those complete cages around my face, and the falcon would be rolling his eyes a lot, Oh God.

They'd put the blinder on just so I couldn't see it roll its eyes. That's what they're there for. I would have sarcastic falcons, sarcastic passive aggressive falcons, anyway. I've always been fascinated by the idea of falconry. You should do it.

Have you ever done it? No, I think we did on late night. We did so many animal segments over the years that I know I've probably had. I'm sure I've had a falcon on my shoulder and a falcon on my arm. Fans can look for it and I'm sure it'll come up instantly whenever I say, no, I've never done blank, instantly.

Someone can find it on the internet. So yes, I'm certain that I've done it on television, but no, I don't even know how I would, I don't even know what it is. I think it's a thing now actually in the L.A. area, like a sort of thing that hipsters can go do and stuff hipsters do. Everything that comes from another time and has no use, right?

Do you know what I mean, like, churning butter? Yeah, axe throwing, axe throwing.

Surgery What? I want a hipster surgeon When it's time for me to have surgery, I want a hipster to do it. These are authentic, rust laden tools from the 18th century.

Exactly these are no exactly. We do surgery the way it was done before the 20th century, because it all got so sterile.

We do it with these rusty tools and we all grow weird beards and we don't clean them, and then the beard, the oily beard hair, falls into your open wound. Fuck you hipsters. Is that what we're doing? No, we're not doing that.

Oh, I thought we were doing that because you guys got a little. That's half of Matt's friends. You've got to admit, no, I don't have hipster friends.

You don't have hipster friends? Come on, No, I don't think I do. I think I have pretty square friends, okay?

Yeah, well, some squares are also hipsters, I guess that's true, maybe I don't know.

You can't judge yourself from within, huh? What? What are you guys talking about, you know what?

You've tried to sell that poster to college campuses. You can't judge yourself from within, and it's a cat hanging on a limb, or it's Einstein sticking out his tongue. I bet I could sell that to hipsters. You can't judge yourself from within.

It'd be great to just come up with terrible slogans and try and sell them to college campuses. You would be so good at that, you're the one that you knew you had to be. And then there's a turtle bumping heads with another turtle. Just try to sell those on campus.

Watch yourself get married. I mean, just what's the image? No, the image never has anything to do with the saying no, it doesn't, yeah.

Like this glass of water, yeah, yeah, it's just that glass of water. And then the saying is, whenever you think you were, that was what it was.

It's just a Volkswagen, yellow Volkswagen, it's a yellow Volkswagen. Tomorrow is yesterday's idea of what you ate, and then it's a baby elephant sleeping wearing a sombrero.

We're going to sell that to somebody. Yeah, we really have to. These aren't good merch, I'm smelling merch.

I want more. Can you do another one? Merch These are fun, yeah.

Well, okay, come on, make me laugh, clown. This AI is working pretty well, it is working really well.

It gets him.

Sunshine is the regret you used to know during daylight. And then just put underneath it, Thoreau, you can just put anybody's name underneath it. You know, what I'd love to do is just sell a whole bunch that are like, Shit's going down, Gandhi.

That's good, you know, that's what I want to do. Who farted Thackeray?

Back that shit up, Jane Austen. I want to sell those. Right now, we're on it, right?

Isn't that the one? isn't that back that shit up, Jane Austen?

That's what we absolutely have to do. We're going to get sued by everyone's estate. Oh, come on, they're not paying attention. Fair use.

Fair use copyright is expiring. Everyone knows how Jane Austen talks. Yeah, if anyone knows, it's you two about copyright law.

There we go, we're good. I'm crying, I'm actually crying a little bit.

Back that shit up got me really good. Drop it like it's hot ho, Melville.

I'd hit that Mary Todd Lincoln, Oh my god, we're going to sell these, we should.

And I don't see any legal or moral reason why we shouldn't. I don't think there could be no, because you can do anything with those historical figures. If you've liked what I've just said, write to me, care of, make that poster, dude.

At 2222 Scooby-Doo Avenue. Uh-huh, yeah, and I'll get right back at you, postage included.

No city, no state. Oh, come on man, yeah, state of cool.

Oh, city of here and now.

Yep, shabba doo ding dong habba scabba day. I got to pull the plug on this. What is wrong with you?

I'm the one person. My wife is going to have me attached to a machine. And then pull the plug, just so she's going to have the plug inserted, just so she can pull it. And I'll be perfectly healthy, smart, all right?

We got to get into it, yeah. My guest today is a hilarious comedian who starred in the Netflix series Lady Dynamite. She now has a new memoir titled Sure, I'll Join Your Cult, a memoir of mental illness and the quest to belong anywhere.

Maria Bamford, welcome.

I've talked to so many comedians on whether on late night, but especially on this show. And they talk about these early jobs they've had. People have had some really crazy jobs. But you had one that you talk about in the book, where it's it's early, you're trying to get into show business.

It hasn't quite gelled in stand up yet. And you get this gig doing some kind of a Star Trek show, Deep Space Nine, Deep Space Nine, but it's a live show that you did at a mall.

Yes, what, and okay? Paramount had a subsidiary named Paramount Park, so I'm sure has been dissolved, and a man named Stan ran it.

It's always a Stan. Stan would tell us about fantastic new gigs. We're doing a Jack of the Bronx promotion. Do you and a klingon want to go out? And we drive out to Pomona and stand around saying things like greetings?

I am major leelanka of the planet Bajor.

Get the fuck away from me. So you had to memorize all this stuff. Well, I can sometimes be half-assed when it comes to certain jobs, so stand up I really care about. But that one, I know, I could have gone deep into the Bajoran history and Star Trek itself.

I did not, you didn't do it. Were you in makeup and stuff, too? Oh yes, this is my genetic makeup.

Do you speak of, oh, spirit, gum?

Oh, so, you had to. If any kid said to you, Hey, nice mask, you'd have to say mask of what do you speak? Earth creature, that kind of stuff. Oh yes, well, that's what I did.

No one told me to do it, it was just a natural bleed, natural gift. And what is the in the book you talk about going off script a bit?

Yeah, yeah, which was really funny. Well, because the I did read a little bit about the Bajorans and it turned out they were kind of what I felt like. It was sort of the World War II Jewish experience of that realm, and so, and this is sci-fi.

Yeah, it's not real, but you decided to go deep into that and then bring that to the mall and tell kids about it. Is that correct? My parents, The last I saw from them, I was in the attic of my parents house.

Yes, we had houses, we were not animals. Oh, you have a wrinkly face, we are not so different. You and I and I was playing with my paper dolls.

And yet all I have left is my parents, is this bloody paper doll? I heard their screams, you were saying this to kids at a mall, listen, listen.

Hey lady, I just want some jollibee. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got a 45 minute shift. I gotta keep their attention. We're in the food court.

Oh, that would have my attention.

Our whole race was destroyed.

Oh, you think I should be with a Ferengi because you'd like to see what would come out from us, what, what child we would have?

You just think of all the kids out there right now that are going to be stand-ups and write books like yours. Because they went to the mall one day. Oh, there's a fun alien, how dare you look at me?

I was molested by a grogar, nine tentacles, it was.

Even though I felt a little pleasure, that pleasure. Oh, wait a minute, what, you kind of liked it somewhat.

The confusion of the trauma is that you can't feel the shame of pleasure.

We've got to get this to the Star Trek people, this is good stuff, this is very good stuff. No, but I want to acknowledge that the Star Trek, it is a real world. And I did not mean to poop on it. Well, I don't think you did.

It's not like when you do a show, you have to acknowledge the native land that you're on. It's fair game. No, you do with Star Trek, too. You acknowledge this was all taken from Gene Roddenberry.

Let me issue an.

Okay, first of all, an apology, you have to tweet out an apology number one, I have to find out what I did wrong.

That's the most important thing. When you do an apology, you say, What is it that I did wrong? Oh, Maria, you know? Oh no.

You know, deep down, you know, no, because then I have to, that's what I do. Then I repeat what the person says that I did, you know, paraphrasing, and then I take that in and then I order a book about it.

And then I say, I bought this book, is that a book to get? And then they usually say, Yeah, I mean, I didn't really. It wasn't a big deal to me, I was just....

I didn't think you'd read this.

So wait, Maria, the torture you put yourself through in the smallest ways, and you're such a lovely person. I want to lift that burden from you. I do well, I'm not going to.

No, no, but I, you know, there's a delightful safety in OCD, in feeling, you know, that feeling of like, Oh, if I did just the right thing, then you can find relief. It never happens, and I think it's so important that it never happens.

If anybody's wondering, but.

No, yeah, I like to feel like I fully executed the best. I'm sorry.

Have you had to apologize for things publicly? Oh sure, yeah. Pretty much my whole career, but it's been, I think of my 30 years as one long apology, one long backing out of a cocktail party.

You want to give it another shot right now? No, we've covered it. But America, you know, I meant well, my mom at the end of her life was just sort of like, constantly saying, sorry, sorry, sorry.

You know, just sort of like a water off a dog's back, like, I'm just going to keep going and apologizing as I go, whoops. It's not a bad strategy because sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry means that you're going to get it right sometimes. Yeah, exactly.

It's not a bad default, it's a good thing for you to sort of do now. Yeah, I don't think so.

Now we're in an interesting time as we record this because the writer's strike is going money. Let's talk about it. Well. Wow, you really lit up.

Right, oh my God, yeah, people are fighting over money and all kinds of stuff. But one of the things about the writer's strike is that there's this rule, that, and we all want to do the right thing....

That podcasts, you know, can't promote certain projects. But I am allowed to talk about books that I love, that people have written. And that's why I wanted to talk to you, because you've written a book. Sure, I'll join your Cult, which is a fantastic title. Sure, I'll Join your Cult by Maria Bamford and you are adored.

You are a beloved stand-up comic and you wrote a fantastic book. And I just wanted to say, start off by saying congratulations and to everyone listening right now, go get this book, it's fantastic.

And there's so much to talk about here because your whole career has been.

You are so open about what you've been through, and, man, you've been through a lot. Listen, I like to well monetize self-real. Yeah, I like telling everybody everything, and it turns out that's a cash cow.

So you're going to say, monetize your pain? Yeah, well, or just like, Have you ever read the book The Giving Tree? Yeah, which I'm trying to rewrite as The Giving Condo.

All there was was the shade of the condo, you can lay in the shade. You can't come in because you sold it to Russia.

The Giving Tree.

The premise is the tree gives everything, until finally, all there is is a stump for the little boy to sit on, who is now an old man. And yeah, I have nothing left to give, except, you know, stories I do, like I like open book accounting.

That's one of my last things I have to give. I'm a multi-millionaire, I am worth $3.5 million in assets, so that's multi. And, you know, so I feel like....

My dad passed away, which means he was a physician. I am white, it was generational wealth. So I'm doing okay over here and I think the one thing I have to give is full, you know, open book accounting.

Full disclosure. Yeah, because I love companies that do that. Chobani Yogurt, where they taught everybody in the company that to take accounting classes and then find out what everything in the yearly report means. So there's actually some way you can argue for a raise or to go, Oh, that's why I'm paid that amount. I'm listening.

Yeah, yeah, listen, I go a different route than Chobani. uh-huh. see, I go more of a....

I don't know, let's say Vladimir Putin route. Yeah, it's no one's business how much wealth there is in the walls of the Kremlin. No mysteries.

Mysteries Yeah, if people ask any questions, they just go away. Yes, there's a lot of poison.

Poison in the muffins? Yeah, oh, by the way, Gourley, have a muffin.

Wipe my doorknobs before I use them. No, but it's, and I put that in the book. I put in a financial bit of like because I find that stuff fascinating and not because I know anything.

Like, I don't know anything about money, nor do I know if I'm doing the right thing or the wrong thing. But it is such an emotional topic I find it. You know, people get so mad, or so embarrassed, or so ashamed, including myself. Like, every time I see my accountant, I'm just like,....

It doesn't matter what they're saying, you know? Oh, you're in the same amount. Oh, how dare you like it doesn't, yeah?

The emotions don't match the numerics. It's interesting it flips, it can flip so quickly from the flip between gratitude that you have something and rage that you don't have.

More of that thing is so instantaneous, and it's such a human thing. Yeah, or somebody asking, Have you ever been asked to do something for free? Oh, yeah, right.

So.

Which sometimes, you know, if I think, like, sometimes, let's say, and this is a current shtick I'm working on. But Grimace, who I, I know, Grimace is....

It doesn't even matter who the person is. But sometimes you get a text from a famous person at around midnight on a Saturday night who says, you know, in sort of a business.

You up? And let's just say it was Grimace, which is the liminal space between the Hamburglar and Mayor McCheese. Yeah, I remember Grimace he was....

Yeah, lovable, wasn't he? the the Purple guy? Yeah, purple, but didn't he represent the shakes, the milkshakes?

Well, didn't they just put out a grimace shake in commemoration of his birthday or something? Yeah, yeah, he's definitely doing well. Grimace is finally having his moment. Yeah, and I love Grimace.

Yeah, but then Grimace said, Hey, do you want to work on this thing tomorrow? and wait a minute? Grimace, the character from McDonald's.

Well, it's a placeholder, it's a placeholder for someone I know. Vladimir Putin Oh, I see, let's just say it's Vladimir Putin.

I see, okay, you could have just said someone I know. Why are we talking about grimace?

Because it has to have the weight and the celebrity and the authority. And the fear involved the anxiety involved of meeting someone as powerful as Grimace face-to-face in your own living room. Yes, like, there's some sort of like your milkshake a little bit, and I basically. And I also the minute you said, Grimace, I know what celebrity you're talking about, but go ahead.

So I, you know, I texted all my friends in Debtors Anonymous, which is a 12-star program. Which is a lot like Tony Robbins, if Tony Robbins was a small, was about 4'9. And talk like this anyways. But and I said, you know what, I really want to get paid for this?

And so I asked. I asked Grimace for about 800 bucks, and 300 bucks was to pay the venue that he wanted to use in my neighborhood. A hundred bucks would be the tips for the barista to keep it quiet, 200 bucks to, oh no. 100 bucks for the person who we were going to commandeer into doing something with the barista. And then 300 bucks for myself. Because I have an addiction to clogs.

Anyways, this all sounds, by the way. this all sounds very reasonable, reasonable. Yeah. So now Grimace, who I adore.

I think the way he paid out the money was in hundreds, in a very slow fashion, passive-aggressive. Yeah, in a way that suggested he did not have the money. And I know that's not true.

It can't possibly be true. No, grimace, I mean, all that money from the shakes, and well, I mean, it's not grimace, but you know, we, yeah, billions served, right. So I just, Yeah, it's that kind of thing where I think I need to have empathy for Grimace because obviously they're hurt.

Like, they're hurt by me asking for money, like there's something offensive in me, asking for money, and then, you know, and also I'm. It's just interesting whether or not it means anything, was it for a charitable event, No, no.

Oh, okay, that's so different. Oh wow. I do a lot of things and I don't want to, you know, shoot my own horn. But I give and give and give so many charitable causes, but that I get.

I understand, sure, I'll show up and do the thing. And here's my argument with charity kicks. I am often asked by a fan The people they're trying to get money from are not fans.

They are very wealthy people in Napa Valley, or somewhere where I recently did a benefit and bombed so hard, because people in Napa Valley, they've had some wine. They don't want to hear about schizophrenia research in my chunk on suicidal ideation. They would like to have Howie Mandel come up as soon as possible. And that's why, that's why I refuse to do benefits, because I just, I just think it's I'm hurting people at this point.

I got to a point and there's no way around it. But tell me if you agree. Performing for people who are eating no. I, that's just this thing. That when I hear chewing and I hear silverware and gulping, when I'm trying to tell a joke that I sweated over, I, I'm very unhappy. Thanks a lot.

Glory is also eating a massive cobbler right now with a big wooden spoon. Yeah, it feels sad, and if there's, I mean, I don't know if some people are enjoying themselves for me.

I feel sad. I feel like it's like a gig where it's like Combat duty, where I'm like taking a bullet for somebody. And so it's like, it's unnecessary and everybody's suffering. I think it's right and healthy for you to say, Okay, here's what I need in return. It's not outrageous. You just wanted to pay off some people and you wanted some clogs.

That is very reasonable. Thank you so much. Well, and I I just it is also fascinating. Just I'm a comedian who, you know, I'm in the middle of the pack or whatever.

So the opening salary for comics has not gone up in the 30 years that I've been working. So people are still getting $100 a week, $200 a week, and I think many. I didn't know that. And so I started asking people and I was like, say what? like, because I'm I'm making tons more than that, you know?

I mean, depending on what city I'm in, but let's be honest.

Tulsa, Oklahoma. And not so much. Not a draw, not a draw. I won't be back, I won't be back.

It's fine. Do you realize you're crying right now?

Lots of tears, but I find it very interesting, including for myself. Like, there is no reason I should ever feel afraid or angry about money. Ever again, ever again. And yet I do all feel like this weird thing.

Also with Grimace. Like, I did not have to do the gig, I didn't. I could have said no, because, like, I got friends, you know, I got, I got a job, I got enough love in my life.

Like, what is it? That's pushing me to feel like, Oh, I gotta get the the Prestige or the bright, you know? Like someone to pay more attention to me, which is so sad. Which I loved about John Mulaney's special of like, now I just need to get a little more attention. Yes, that's the only thing I need.

But yeah, so, and that's weird too, you know, like, and it's about greed, you know, greed of attention, but greed of, you know, which I think is a part of our society. In terms of, you know, why are the rich getting so much richer, and why, you know, anyways?

I'm sorry I fell asleep in my own narrative.

Okay, this is where I'm taking away from from what you just said and also from your book, which is you are constantly. I mean, just now you're talking, you're analyzing society, but also yourself. But also, what does money mean? There's so much that you're thinking about all the time, and it all goes back to this. I want you to say compulsion, yes to think and consider everything. Yes. And you talk a lot about OCD and how you've been battling OCD really your entire life.

Yeah, I mean, now it's not so bad. Because, you know, once you find out what the thing is, you know, you go to it. And then they go, oh, that's just that, and you go, oh, once you put a name on, yeah, once you put it away, it's power. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, I have intrusive OCDs, which usually are taboo thoughts.

So whatever is taboo in your society, you know? When you were a kid, yeah, you told your mother yes, because it's in the book, you told your mother that you had these thoughts of harming the family. Yes, and she said, Honey, it's okay if you're gay.

Just added a whole yep, that's how, that's how a gay person comes out. I'm thinking of murdering the family, yeah, and somehow, home, being homosexual was worse in the 80s than being a serial killer.

Why can't you be more like Ted Bundy? He's heterosexual.

Now, at least, like the ladies, you say, you say that your mom, because you talk a lot about your mom and you talk about how she was. Kind of. You think, one of the catalysts, or one of the maybe moving forces behind you getting into show business? Totally. Why? My mom? Well, she loves things that are shiny, but she also. And this is something I realized after she passed. I was like she had like style, like she knew what was the best thing. And now I realized, oh, she just choiced, chose to see everything she got as the best.

So this microphone is just darling. No, you can tell it's quality, it's been made, it's handcrafted by someone in the water. Oh, I love it, Conan.

I'm a lucky kitty.

That's actually a lovely quality, yes. And so how does that translate into you wanting to go into showbiz? Well, because she was often distracted, which I think may have been a result of not getting enough calories. But, you know, always sort of like it needed it, needed to have some shine on it. So my sister became a physician that seemed to get her enough attention. Like, oh well, my my older daughter is it is a doctor, and she has four children with her husband, Mark.

And then, you know, and then it was sort of me on my end. It was quiet for a number of years. Maria's just figuring it out, she's just figuring it out, but like, Oh my God, as soon as you know, she has been.

Well, the first TV spot I got was on your show, you know, that's in 1999.

Yes, yeah, you came on late night, Conan. She's on television like she would just light up about, Yeah, consumer, or anything with a.

Yes, you love status, love status. I have. I've talked about this ending before on the podcast. But I have this picture on my desk that someone took when I was at an event. It was my parents. It's probably 15 years ago.

It's both of my parents laughing really hard because I'm on stage in the picture, I'm not in the picture, it's just both my parents laughing really hard. And I asked, someone showed me that picture and I said, Can I have that? and I framed it and I keep on my desk. Because if anyone ever needs the reason why, and it's very primal, yeah, but it is, see those two people that made me laughing.

That's why, that's why the whole, and as you know, I'm wondering if it's, I'm guess I've in your book. You make it clear that when you get up on stage and you get that kind of approval and laughter, it does resonate. Because you've felt it before. It's when you were a kid and your parents were going, yay.

Yeah, it's the same dopamine head. Oh, it's just delightful. I don't know if anybody's heard of Suzuki violin, or that's a it's. It's a way people teach their kids music, and it came out of Japan.

And it all is all about if you teach a kid early enough, they can do anything, so you start at two years old. You will have a weirdly, you know, talented, whatever it is.

Very unhappy, yeah.

But you can teach, you know, kids can do anything so so, and you talk about this in the book because you did Suzuki violin. What age did you start? three now? Whose idea was it, your mommy or dad?

Well, they said, Honey, you can do dance or violin, and I didn't really know what either of those were your three. I was three, so I said one at the V sound and then started doing that. Know what? Little did I know what she said, which I didn't understand that either, she said. You cannot quit until you're 12 years old. And I didn't understand time and how how that worked.

But yeah, I mean, the great thing about that, it kept me off the pipe, off the pole, and also actually it's something you could use on the pole. Yeah, I mean, kid kids are incredibly malleable. And if they. If you look as a parent, that you're pleased at the actions that they're, you know, performing. Whether that's factory work, in a chicken parts situation or they. You will do it, you will continue to do it and get better. How good did you get it?

You know, using this method, I got, I mean, yes, violent, yeah. I mean, if you got really good at the piano, that'd be very strict, you know, weirdly good where you go. Oh wow, that's crazy.

You know where? I think I got to book eight out of ten and I went to the Interlochen Music Camp, International Music Camp. Did it give you any joy? Not really. I did not enjoy it. The part I liked was getting up on stage.

I like that part and then I kind of like the feel of victory. Like if I whooped somebody, like if somebody didn't do well, and then I did well, like, which is monstrous. And what I liked more was getting laughs and stuff because I did some theater and stuff as a kid and speeches. Yeah, but then I moved to Los Angeles. There were two other comedians who are female, doing acts with violence. And so I said to myself, I think I I can kick this to the curb now. Henny Young women Henny young women I well, and yeah, I think Henny Young genuinely love to play.

Yeah, I have, and Jack Benny famously, Yeah, played, I see. I played much, I think, better violin than he led on, but it was part of his act as well, which is everyone hates my violin playing, you know, right, that's all that's, that's a good act. There's so many themes you touch on in the book. Food is one of them. Yes, let's talk about food.

Take me through your food journey because it's been fraught, fraught. Well, I mean, I think, you know, and I've talked to other community has said I was bulimic, which bulimic bulimia is. It's one of the ways you can be bulimic. Just binge and then purge through exercise. You don't necessarily have to have been a vomiting perjurer.

So maybe I don't count to some people because it is a competitive sport.

Oh, my God, you get into treatment and people are like, So, I mean, have you blown out your exophagus? Like it does good? I mean, are you really a heroin addict? like it always gets good? This is so fascinating to me because this is what human beings do. Everything is a competition.

You could be on a raft, in a boat with three other people starving to death in the ocean. Because you've been at sea for four and you're drinking your own urine for six weeks. And people like you call that skinny, Yeah, I.

My pelvis is cutting through my skin. All right. Yeah, people, there's something some people like, yeah, so you're saying that you're in treatment and you're getting attitude from people that don't think you qualify. Oh shit, yeah, yeah, no, like, yeah, what?

What are you here for? I? I worked at a grocery store so I could binge carrots and my skin could turn, you know, orange. You know, that type of thing. I, yeah, it was. It was bad enough that I was unable to get stuff done, you know? So I was unable to leave my dorm room when I was in college. And so I called a suicide hotline and said, hello, and they gave me the number to overeaters. Anonymous What a white woman knows. But we make. How did it start?

Anyways, so it's not that interesting of story. And in fact, I've told the comedians and they're just like, Yeah, that's everybody's well, then everyone has an eating disorder, and I'm like, Well, okay. Fair enough, I don't think you should be looking to other comedians for sympathy because I. It's the we're, the we're all the worst people, so that's the first problem. Hey, that's not funny.

You got to punch that up. Yeah, you probably call the suicide hotline. No, no, you don't end there, you punch it with this. Okay, you're talking to the wrong people. Well, and it 988 if you need to call it up. But sometimes there is a 45 to 90 minute.

Wait to call anybody. I called Hertz Rent-a-cart, South Pasadena, California. They picked up on the first ring anyways. Just Fyi 988 is not always are you being serious? right now? I am being totally serious.

If you. And this is important because you've been through this experience and you've had very dark thoughts and this is something to take seriously. Yeah, 988 is the number you call if you're having suicidal thoughts or fear of hurting yourself or someone else. And but if you don't get them, do you really believe that you should call anyone else? Oh, I think, yeah. Lower the bar to accessing mental health because there's such.

I don't know, I think it's such a load of bullshit, like they have all these memes going. Hey, you ask for help, you know, tell someone. And it's like, you cannot get an appointment if you even have insurance. For six weeks, six to eight weeks, and then only see you maybe four times. If you've had a traumatic event, and that event you couldn't only have. A therapist like Kaiser is notorious for this, where they can only seen you once a month. Even if you have a shit ton of money, you can throw money in the street and burn it and they'll.

Sometimes there's some shitty I went to. I went to the hospital to for because I was concerned about myself for a night, for a three, three-day hold. And I thought they took my insurance, turned out they didn't. They said they needed all the money in cash, which made me laugh in retrospect.

Because isn't spending an enormous amount of money on something that's gonna be worthless a sign of mania? But? But it was not good, it wasn't great. Like if you look in the back of the New Yorker and there's all those mental health care places. If you read about experiences people have had there, it's just a holding tank. I went to this one place where it's very expensive. They said. They had yoga classes, a pool.

You get there, nothing's going on, nothing's happening. It's a lot of carbs, there's hash browns.

You will put on at least 20 pounds and the pool is closed. Who is closed due to insurance concerns. This is most motels I've stayed.

There's hash browns and the pool is always closed. Yeah, well, that's why I think you went to a motel in Hampton.

But just, yeah, yeah. But I think you can feel like you've been gaslit sometimes, like, Oh, am I not getting the right care? And just know it will be shit like? And be surprised if you get anything a little better than you know, if you get any eye contact, you know, just, I just, I hate, I hate that thing where it's like, Hey, you. With the ongoing trauma and the schizoaffective disorder.

You know, and it's like, it's not, it's not that easy, yeah, nor is it always pleasant. One of the things that you do so well, so effectively is, and effective, is a cold termed. Because I, because I admire the way you do it. You're brutally honest about all these painful things you've been through, and you never. You're always funny, too.

At the same time, you managed to get the salty and the sweet mixed up very beautifully. And I I think that's edifying, that's helpful for a lot of people, you know, that's my current thing. In terms of, well, this is a punchline. But now I call the anti-abortion people because all their literature says life is a gift.

Have them take the time to prove it to you. I recently called Hi, I'm not pregnant, my mother was, and that's she kept it. Now, it's 52 years later, what's the plan?

I think we can also be there for each other a lot more that the peer advocacy, I've just trained to be a peer advocate and a lot of. You can have lived experience to take a test and then be paid to work in the mental health system if you have lived experience with addiction or mental health. And I think we can help each other a lot more by being being more open with it. And then also the availability of, like, hey, you know, you don't have to go into a hospital necessarily. Or find the right therapist, which is a thing in Los Angeles. Like, you've got to see this guy, he's a psychopharmacologist, he's on, he's on retainer.

So it's five grand a month, but I see him on a helicopter pad.

He helped Grimace so much. Yeah, yeah, and I love Grimace. Let's be clear about that. Well, you know, that's the other possibility is that we used to live. And you know, I always think about evolution. We evolved, and we evolved to live in groups of about, I don't know, 50-60.

All of us would live in a small area. And the postman would come in when he brought you the mail and sit with you. And you'd offer him a piece of coffee cake and you'd talk for 20 minutes. And there was a lot of that kind of bonding, yeah, if I don't want my postman to come in and there's no coffee cake. But get to know the names of your barista, who knows what they've been through or taken at a, you know, community college? Like, I feel like that is genuinely can be like, I mean, I try to mention I'm bipolar everywhere I go. So that you know if somebody needed something, just cuz I think they're that, that kind of, yeah, safety net of, yeah, you're just.

You're surrounded by people who can help and who want to help. Everybody wants to feel useful, everyone wants to have a IRL experience. So so you've been diagnosed with bipolar 2? Yes, which is the that's the the the easier sort of bipolar for my part.

So you've had a competitive conversation with someone who's bipolar 1, Oh, bipolar 2? Well, that must be a nice holiday.

You've never had psychosis. I was told to murder by my dog.

And you've been in several psych wards about that in the book, just two different ones. Glendale Adventist Psychiatric Medical Center. I was in West Psych West and then I was at the last and seen us still in business. Do not recommend it.

You just gave them a bad Yelp review? Well, no, no, I never give bad reviews. I always feel like everyone's having a hard enough time. Oh well, here's the thing. The psychiatrist there, who has since retired, he when I went in, because, yeah, I got to see a psychiatrist, which is amazing. And he. Not only he googled me during the session, but then played some of my act back to me and said, Oh, you're pretty funny. Unless I say, I'm Richard Pryor, you know, like I'm and wait until I've left.

You know, if I'm having some sort of experience where I think I'm somebody else and just assume maybe she's a comedian? Like, like, because I think I. I said I was a comedian, which is always a terrible idea to say in a hospital circumstance. But I isn't the first thing you get. Tell me a joke, yes, or wherever seen you or, you know, and all jobs have that sort of thing. You know, I know, I've heard people say, if you know you, I'm an administrative assistant. Oh, like, sometimes you don't get any questions, right? And you have a lot to say when you go to these places and you're in that state.

Are you ever thinking about comedy or looking around and thinking, No, no? I mean, if you're having a emergency event for any sort of, whether that's a physical or a mental issue, you're not that, yeah.

No, no, you're a completely altered. Yeah, just. yeah. No. I wanted to, I wanted to die. I was not feeling good.

Yes, so no, it's like, something's broken, or you don't go, you know, this pain. I somebody take notes on this, I mean, maybe you are.

I worry that I would, but I'm deeply like, how could I use this? And I? But I? The pain you're describing, to be honest with you, is a pain I have not felt right, so I cannot relate. Yeah, I hadn't, and I hadn't felt that either. I don't think I had felt that.

You know, just like your brain. I wasn't there, I wasn't there, and that feeling of like, Oh, I, there's no me here, and yeah, I just did not like. Every moment was excruciating.

I was so grateful. When they came around with the meds, I was just like, Oh my God, knock me out with a hammer and they don't do that anymore. That was the 60s.

Ended with the three stitches, but that was really nice. Like, um, Jonathan Winters, he, he had had, I think, a few psychotic episodes. And in the 60s, I think they would. Just everyone was just there was just a big jar of allium, and then they would they just numb me out.

He was there for months, but my friend, I have a friend who's friends of his, and I was so out of it. I was just like, he's like, I'm calling Jonathan, he'll tell you it's gonna be okay, and I'm like, Okay, ah, I could barely talk.

But he was like, Oh, you have a good shrink. I said, Well, yeah, you know, just keep going. I can do is keep going, which is really the only advice anyone can give you. Generation Depression era World War Two fighter pilot. Keep going, which sometimes is the right advice to get, like, pull yourself together and keep going well. And I think that that it's the experience of, like, a suicidal depression really has given me empathy for people in my life who have committed suicide.

I think there's tremendous guilt, but also sometimes people are angry at people who commit suicide and.

That you just don't know the level of suffering someone has experienced and.

Anyways, I don't know why I'm laughing. That's inappropriate. Hmm, that makes you kind of a monster, ouch.

Ouch is not the appropriate response to me calling you a monster Hitler. You're a monster, Ouch.

Stalin, You're satan.

You said that one of the causes of your break was you'd lost your dog. You were really connected to your dog. Yes, blossom the awesome pug, blossom me, I stand down.

She's a super anyways, you guys know, song he read. a song for every dog that you get read a song from, and she's beautiful girl.

And I, I was, I think I was kind of going into a hypomanic state and so. But one of the things I did is I forgot to put a ramp back to our back of our backyard. And so she, Thelma and Louise did out to the bed. She was around nine years old and she died. Yeah, and it really sucked and I felt so ashamed. And the great thing is that if you do anything horrible, you can google it. And someone else will come up and said, You know, I started talking about on stage.

People are like, I sat on my rabbit, you know, like, but on purpose? yeah, oh oh, but that's how I took my rabbit, I thought was the quickest way. I said, You're gonna get a little sit-down, mister.

Everything miserable has happened to somebody, you know, somebody's left a baby in a hot car. And then, you know, written a book about it and is now on tour. And that's the great thing about the internet is that you can find that you are never alone. Yeah, but I, yeah, that that was just I felt so awful. But you know, it is, it is, I mean, we all.

I know you have a dog, you have Okie, and you have Margo, Margo, you know Marco, Yeah, and I have two dogs. And you get really involved in these animals and in a way you get more involved because you feel like almost you could have them. I don't know, they don't.

They're just always there for you. You know, I, I've never, I've never sarcastic with one of my dogs, you know what I mean?

It's just, I love you, it's all. The emotions are very pure. That's the difference between a dog and a cat. I feel like I'm always there for my cat and she's very sarcastic with me.

Oh, no cancer assholes, yeah, but this one after the worst. She's a plus-size model. Oh, she's a sassy lady. Did she put on a kitten heel?

She puts on fishnets and then eats them.

Maria, I want to say something about you, which is you're a terrific comedian and I think you're a really brave person. Because you just put these things out there that I think would be difficult for a lot of people to talk about. And you're honest about it, and you're you. Whatever alchemy you're performing to make it funny, something nice for other people, but also informative, that's a real gift. So thank you, seriously, thank you for being here and for doing this, and thank you so much for having me. And it's been a bit of delight. I'm sorry.

I didn't get to talk with any of these other lovely people who seem, What, what are you guys doing over there? Well, that's the thing. We don't know who they are. Yeah, we.

Sit back there, I'm actually not listening to this podcast, I have another podcast.

Eduardo Eduardo designed this studio, really, yeah, and did it. He asked to be paid, and I said, Come on, I'm a friend, your buddies, yeah.

No, I think my parents, I paid my parents to work for me. Well, that's nice. No, they didn't get you union rates, but.

But they were in one of my specials and I pay him 900 bucks apiece, as well as give them dinner. Oh yeah, that's really nice of you spent every penny.

I had my parents interned for me.

And they never got paid, and I said they'd get college credit, and I never gave it to them. Yeah, yeah, I had them doing like yard work, it wasn't even at my yard or anything associated with the show. No, it's just last week. Yeah, it was just exactly yeah. My 94 year old dad was weed whacking when he took both of his legs off.

Anyway, he's doing well, he's a happy torso.

Maria Bamford, Thank you very much.

Yeah, that we did our first television show and a lot of young people don't know or rightly don't care. But at the time, it was kind of a who is this guy? I was a complete unknown and hadn't been on television and so people were. I think half the audience was tuning in just to see someone try to jump their motorcycle over a canyon and fail. No, but I'll.

I have very fond memories of the show, it was a really fun first show, it was electrifying to get to do it. I was 29 when I auditioned and then I had just turned 30 when I got the job. And then we put it together very quickly in a couple of months. And I do have to get this all down on paper someday because it is a wild story. But with the help of really talented, funny people and got a good crew together, some of whom are still with me today. Jeff Ross Mm-hmm. still with me. Frank, Mr.

Frank Smiley Still with me, Paula Davis, Gina, of course, Batista, yeah, and.

It has and and Andy. I still see Andy almost every day because he does his podcast here in the building, so we see each other a lot. And Andy was out there with me and he had been hired as a writer. And immediately I thought, this guy, I just want him next to me because I'm I'm going to them. The nose cone of a rocket into space.

I'm probably gonna get killed. I'd like to have this funny guy next to me and so that was a blessing. So there was no original plan for you to have a sidekick? No, there was no original plan for anything, and the whole thing had to come together very quickly.

But that first show, we worked really hard. Robert Smigel, my original head writer. He and I had this vision of what we wanted. And we worked very hard. And Jeff Ross was there helping us make it happen and he was instrumental in the whole operation. And we decided that we wanted this very silly kind of sense of humor, and we worked so hard. We had pre-tapes.

We had everything just lined up, so we knew our first show was gonna be good, we knew it was gonna be loaded with a lot of good stuff. So people subsequently said he must have been terrified that day, and I remember thinking, No, I was just excited to get going, really.

Yeah, I was, I was excited. I was so excited to get going because the whole summer. People were like, Who the fuck are you? And that was my mom. Speaking of that, you know how I heard about you from my mom. I was away at college and she said, This is the new guy.

They're putting on Conan O'Brien. Yeah, and then she really liked you, she watched the show, that's nice. Yeah, I didn't have a TV at college or I would have tuned.

It was a different time no one had. It's funny. I go back to colleges now and they have televisions and computer, whatever, I just I didn't have a. of course there weren't televisions.

When I went to college, we had curftop radios, but anyway, it was. It was a really special day. And so it's just funny to wake up today and think, Hi. I had some texts from people saying, Wow, 30, 30 years ago today, and that changed my life completely.

Obviously lots of ups and downs, but just I wouldn't change a thing. Been very fortunate there been.

Different eras or sections. And and so went through that whole late-night thing, and then Sona, I don't meet you till really, the end of the late-night thing, in the beginning of the tonight show. Mm-hmm. Thanks for your help with that, oh.

You were the one thing that changed, going along swimmingly, you showed up. And then that whole era, like the tour and everything at TBS was. And this podcast and meeting you. Matt. I mean, I just, I'm, I'm very. I know it sounds sappy, but I cannot believe my good fortune. I just keep meeting new people that challenge me in different ways and I get to have more and more fun. It's just seems like I'm off the charts blast.

So half your life you have been a figure. No, that would, that would make me 60, No.

Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, oh yeah, we're putting out a press release that I am one third of your life. I am 40-4. Oh, we're putting it. My, my. My publicist had this idea this morning.

I'm going to 44. Do you want to go back at the opening of this segment and say we recorded this in 1998?

Yes, I do, okay. Well, I think President Clinton's doing a bang-up job. I also just want to take a second to say no. Yeah, I'm 60 now, and I was, yeah, 29 when I auditioned, then 30 when we did the show. Yeah, and it's so funny when I look at clips now from that first show or that first year of that first show.

I can't believe they let that guy on television, he's so young and goofy and my hair was insane. I don't know why, but I feel like, you know, you found your stride very quickly, too, though. I mean, I feel like you started and everyone just started talking about you. It's true. I heard about you from my mom, but then it was all my friend circles and we would just watch. And that's not, I never tell you. Probably enough, what a fan I was of you.

You have never mentioned it, I've mentioned it.

Maybe in my sleep. Well, you know, it's interesting, and I actually think this is the way things should be. But most of what we heard about back then, because there wasn't an internet was. We just heard from TV critics who were not happy. And so we heard all this negativity, and then in the network wasn't happy, and so we were only mostly just getting negativity.

And then I remember the first summer that we, you know, we made it through the fall and this long, dark winter and a lot of criticism, and it was tough. And then we made it to the summer. And kids got out of college. And they came to see the show live in Rockefeller Center, and suddenly I'd walk out and the audience and Robert Smigel, I talked to him about this.

He remembers it, too, starting in June. I'd walk out for the monologue or for the warm-up and the crowd would go crazy and we. I would think, Is there someone behind me?

They want to see it. But I had no, I'd. We had no idea, we had no idea. And it was so nice to finally. And of course, I all went back to school in the fall. Ah, do you think that it would have?

You would have read stuff if people talked about it, cuz you're very, I don't think I'm not reading. Oh, but I would have it, wouldn't, maybe would have there all these young performers today, comedians who were watching men who tell me who are so established and good, and they tell me that they were watching them. And really liking it. And my reaction is always to a hater or Mulaney, or a Nick Kroll, or any of these people.

Why didn't you tell me?

And I did, I sent letters.

There wasn't cash in there. I shredded them. But, uh, but 30 years, that's truly remarkable and impressive. Yeah, it is an amazing, cuz it won't. I don't ever see anything like that happening again. Where they just take someone who no one has ever really heard of and then make them host like a storied franchise. Well, also, I think the thing the television business has changed so much that at the time. Now there's so much television that you're always. You can go home at night and you can watch 10,000 television shows literally on all these streaming services. And they could be populated with people you've never heard of. Or you can go on the computer and watch YouTube clips, and it's everybody you've never seen before.

But this is back in this other era, where literally there's, well, there's two late-night shows and you know, and now there's gonna be this. There's this third one. So we're giving a third person in America a chance. Who shall it be? What's the population of America? about 340 million? All right, who should it be?

LORNE MICHAels What do you think? I think maybe Conan O'Brien done, let's see, we'll need another man.

Weird because crazy. I shouldn't have had that chance and got it and I've just been. Um, and then, as you know, Sona, I met my met Liza. Yeah, shooting a remote on the show, so that would never have happened, and you met your husband.

Yeah, and I'm marrying Matt Gorley because he's here on the podcast, which wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the show. Other people married each other and met because of the show, like there's there's babies, because of this show. Oh yeah, many people made babies at 1230 at night. Back. Yeah, because there was nothing else that so many people used to say, Yeah, I watched you last night, cuz I was up fucking.

Let's say, what an awful phrase, too much. The key to your longevity is that you're an aphrodisiac. And then you made another generation of people that way to you. They made it very clear they were having sex when a cat stepped on the remote and the TV.

Here's going every which way. He's jerking around, he's talking too much, his voice is weird, that comedy is abrasive and strange. This is you talking.

All right, well, very for it. Feel very fortunate today to just have to have been around for this ride and now goodbye forever.

Well, I just felt like I should ride off now. No, no, okay, I'll stick around. okay, all right. okay, I have a house.

Okay, I've seen it tonight.

Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien. Sonim Obsession and Matt Gorley Produced by Me Matt Gorley executive produced by Adam Sachs. Nick Liao and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy.

Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer. Samples engineering by Eduardo Perez. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista and Brit Khan. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan?

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