THIS Is the Key to Getting Out of Debt

Ken Coleman is my co-host today. So if you want to talk about jobs and work as you head into the new year, this is a good day to do it. Mr. Ken's here, and he's the expert on that. I've always got an opinion, and I'm an expert on my opinion.

So you guys, jump in at any point, we'll help you. The phone number is 888-825-5225, but, Ken, instead of going straight into the phones, which we typically do, I'm going to take a pause here and say congratulations to the booth dudes. Yeah, that's right. James Childs, our fearless producer, James Childs and Austin Ben, Andrew, they all do a great job making sure that we are doing what we're supposed to do. on the microphones.

And for several, I don't know, years, I guess, we have hovered in Apple Podcasts around number 10, number 15, sometimes number eight in the world on the main list of all Apple Podcasts. But today we had a milestone. We've never done this before. They refresh that list, I think, about every 20 seconds. So I don't know how quickly it'll be there and won't be there.

But as of a few moments ago, we're the number one podcast in the world on Apple. How about that? Way to go. And congratulations, you guys. I'm proud of you.

Did you hear that, mom? Did you hear what Dave just said? Yeah. Very exciting. Ken Coleman's.

on the number one podcast in the world. I gotta go call my mom and dad. In any category. It's not some nuanced, you know, southern, double-wide trailer broadcast. Number one.

We're the number one in that, right? No, this is the whole freaking thing. The numero uno. And that's a big deal. I got a few elementary school teachers that are having a heart attack right now if they're hearing this.

Yeah, well, I guarantee you I do. But my speech teacher is not. My speech teacher, Mr. Berner. Oh, Mr.

Berner. Mr. Berner, in middle school. He was a believer in Dave Ramsey. 7th and 8th grade.

Well, he sent me out there. We had these things called forensics, which was a speech club, and we went around to other schools and gave memorized speeches or debates or whatever. And Mr. Berner knew I could talk. He wasn't sure I could do anything else, but he knew I could talk, and here I am making a living.

Who knew it? So, way to go, Mr. Berner. This is to you. Well done.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.. We'll start this hour with Canada. Megan is with us. Hi, Megan. How are you?

I'm doing fantastic. Thank you so much for taking my call. I greatly appreciate it. It's an absolute honor to speak to both of you today. You too.

What's up? So I have a quick question. I have a brother-in-law who is being completely enabled by my mother-in-law and father-in-law. He is currently still living at home. He's almost 40 years old, and he has a drug addiction problem, as well, as he's currently not working.

And my major concern is that, you know, my in-laws are getting older. They're almost 80, and we've recently purchased a house, and it has a complete separate in-law suite.

So their eyes kind of got a little bit big when they saw the new house that we purchased for ourselves. And they may mention, like, oh, isn't this just a lovely place for you guys to potentially rent out later down the line, kind of hinting at the fact that, potentially, the brother could potentially move in with us. How do I politely explain to them I have zero desire of him moving into our house? You don't. Your husband does.

It's his mother, not yours.

Absolutely. I agree with you. Does your husband have a backbone, or does he need to run down to Walmart and pick one up? I think I need to buy him one for Christmas. Okay.

All three. All three at Walmart. All three. Yeah.

So, apparently... No, listen. If you do it, you're going to be the Wicked Witch of the West until they die.

Okay. Because one thing about enablers, they don't think they're enablers. They think they're nice. And if you don't participate in their enabling, by definition, you are not nice.

So... You see this with very, very clear eyes. Your husband. Does your husband agree with you? I'm not kidding.

Does your... Your husband needs to head this off at the pass. What's brother's name? First name? Joe.

Joe. Good. Okay. So, brother just catches, you know, Meemaw and Pawpaw at the dinner table and says, Hey, just to let you guys know, Joe's not moving in with us as long as I'm breathing.

That's her husband's job. Okay. You don't say a word. You don't say a word. You sit there and just kind of...

You sit there and kind of dab the corners of your eye like you're crying. Okay. You don't say a word. What was the question, Megan? There's no way to what?

For me to politely bring this up? No. Why do you keep going back to you? Do you not understand? Why do you have to do it?

Because I have the backbone. I know, but you can share yours with him. My wife does it all the time. She says, sick him.

That is true. That is true. Well, in Stacey's case, too, she's as sweet as she can be, but she makes it very clear what her position is on some things at times, and that means it's clear that I need to get on that page. Yeah. You don't have a brother-in-law problem.

You have a husband problem. That's exactly right. So do you pick those up at Walmart, too, new ones, or what do I do that? Oh, that's a whole separate call. No, I mean, you have to get with Dr.

John Deloney, your marriage counselor, or whatever else. But I, honestly, I would just say, honey, if I talk to your mom about this, this is not going to go. well. They're going to be angry with me, and I don't want that. It is your family.

It's actually your job, and I'm going to encourage you. I'm going to give you a stiff cup of coffee, a stiff kick in the rump, and you're going to go talk to your mother and dad. And at some point, when it comes up, gently, and be kind, and just say, you know, you don't want to be as rough as I was a minute ago, but just, mom and dad, look, we've got this house, and you guys were all big-eyed about us having an apartment to rent. We might rent it out someday, but we won't be renting it out to Joe. And you need to know that ahead of time, and Joe, I'm going to tell Joe, Joe, you're not moving in.

I love you, but I hate what you've become, and I'm not going to participate in your drug addiction, your laziness, and your parasitical involvement with mom and dad. You're a parasite. You need to get out. I'll help you. I'll coach you.

I'll love you and help you get up on your feet and actually become a man and go be somebody, but you ain't living in my house, dude.

And that's your husband's job. A hundred percent of the time that you say one word or even agree using your eyes, you're going to get blamed for this. Don't let this land on you. It's not your fault. Make him do it.

He can do it, because he does agree with you, but he comes from enablers, which are nice people, and they build a family script that anyone that goes against nice people is, by definition, mean people. And that's running around in your husband's head.

Am I wrong? No, you're not wrong. And you're not mean, and you're not crazy, and you're not, you know, you are sweet, and you're being protective of your own home space, which you should be. This is called boundaries, and when you set up boundaries for people that don't have any, they generally don't like it. So you don't need to be the one doing it.

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This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is Deloney, and I'm always railing against social media, especially in the summer, because everyone uploads the highlight reels of their perfect bodies, and perfect vacations, and perfect kids, and I know they're not real, and I also know that I'm blessed beyond my wildest dreams, but I still find myself wishing my life was like other people's, and, based on the data, I know this is happening to you too. Comparison is wired into us, but comparison can also become the thief of joy, because we can feel like we're not enough, and begin acting and thinking in ways we would never think otherwise. When all gets to be too much, think about contacting BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, staffed with licensed therapists.

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey, Personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. You know, Ken, I was bragging on our team here for the number one podcast position on Apple, but I really should brag also on our listeners, because one of the things that has really substantially moved the needle, no kidding, for real, I'm not jazzing with you, this is the truth, is that we started asking you guys, and then you did it, to subscribe to whatever format you're listening, YouTube, podcast, you know, whatever it is, subscribe, and to review and leave a five-star, and to share a link, or click the share button if the format you're using, the platform you're using has a share button. So sharing and subscribing and reviewing affects these numbers dramatically, because it lets other people listen, tells other people. we're here, it's great marketing, you know, you guys are great marketing, thank you for sharing. So, like when you read a good book, you tell other people, you gotta read this book, man, or you see this movie, you go, man, you've seen that movie, that's great.

Same thing with a podcast, and we thank you for that. You guys, a bunch of you in this calendar year, more than ever before, have shared, have subscribed, and have positively reviewed us, thank you for that. We really appreciate you, there's a reason that we're number one on Apple right now, thank you, thank you, thank you for that. And I'll keep bragging on all of you, so I can keep saying it over and over and over, because it's pretty stinking cool. All right, Stephen is in Chicago, hi, Stephen, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey gentlemen, how are you doing today? Better than I deserve, what's up?

Yeah, so when I was young, I was with my parents when I was younger, and I received a trust as a result of that, and I kind of just wanted to pick your guys' brains, and how I can continue to grow those assets. Right now I'm 26, and I kind of have no idea which direction to kind of move with those. Okay, how much did you get?

$804,000.. And you're in charge of the entire trust?

Yes, I work with a financial advisor on it. I know, but you're in charge of it. Yes, correct. Yeah, you tell the financial advisor what to do, he doesn't tell you what to do. Yes.

Okay, that's the way it should be, by the way. The first thing you're looking for in financial people, and you've got to be careful, because the way you use your words around me, I'll catch on, okay? The thing you're looking for is the heart of a teacher. Their job is to give you ideas and tell you why those ideas might work. That's called teaching.

Their job is not to do everything, and you go, oh, I got a guy that takes care of everything. That's how people lose all their money. Okay. Because the guy that takes care of everything never does. Ever.

Ever. You know, you hear these sports guys, the NFL player makes $10 million, signing bonus, he's 22 years old, 23 years old, and then he's 30 years old and he's bankrupt, because I got me a guy. That's what they tell me when I'm working with them in the NFL. I got me a guy. To which I always yell at them, you're the guy!

Okay? You follow me? I do it at a distance, because they're big, but yeah.

So yeah, you're the guy. You understand. So that's first thing. Then the second thing is, what are you going to invest in after you learn about it that you're comfortable with?

Now, you know, and I guess. then the third thing is, I would set up your lifestyle if I were you, where you don't need any of this money. Where you work, earn your own money, and you're building your own life. Yeah, and that's what I'm trying to continue to do, and I guess, Dave, since I've kind of known this in the back of my mind, that I have it, you know, I feel guilty for kind of being in this position of having that. No reason to feel guilty.

unless you live off of it and become a useless trust fund baby. Then you should feel guilty. Yeah, that's what I don't want to happen, but... Hey, let me give you three questions that you don't have to answer on the spot right here, but I think this is a good exercise, and you may have answered them. I would give you these three questions to get clear answers on, and it'll help you do what you need to do with this money, and there's no guilt.

What do I want to do? That's professional. What do I want to have? That's personal. And then what do I want to give?

And that's about others focused. I think that those are three big 30-year questions, and if you get the answers to those, I would want this money to be able to advance those very clear big goals. What do I want to do? What do I want to have? That's some material stuff that matters to you.

And then what do I want to give? I think if you could add anything to those three questions, but those are real simple to be able to have a long-term vision that this money can now fuel. That's the way I want you to come at it. I'll tell you, kind of like we told our kids when they were your age, or they were a little bit younger than you, we sat down and we showed them what the Ramsey net worth had become. I said, this is not.

you hit the lottery moment, because, as for our house, we serve the Lord. And what that means in this moment of you seeing our net worth for the first time, because they didn't grow up thinking they were rich kids. We didn't allow that, although they were.

They grew up, you know, having to work and learn a skill and become useful human beings. And so, I said, what you've got with this money is not the blessing of never having to do anything. What you got is a tremendous responsibility. You are going to be what I am, a manager of God's money for Him and His glory. And if you are not going to manage this money for Him and for His glory, you will not be getting the money.

And so, that's how this goes. That's how I told our kids. And so, what that does, if you step back and you say, my job is to manage this for the legacy of my family, whoever it was that did such a great job with money that left it to you, you want to honor that by furthering this. And the first way you do that is you earn your own living and you don't live out of this money. Number two, you take this money and you manage it well, like you were managing it for someone else that you cared deeply about, which would be the memory, the legacy of the family for the Lord, however, you want to view that.

And so, and that means you get with someone that has the heart of a teacher, then I'm investing it. If I'm you, basic stuff. I would start with a series of just good growth stock mutual funds. Just very simple stuff, like this was your 401k. Like you had $800,000 in your 401k, and lots of people have $800,000 in their 401k, by the way.

So, I would just start it like that, and I put my personal 401k and a lot of my mutual fund investing in four types of mutual funds, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. I personally spread mine out 25% in each of those four. And I look for mutual funds that have long track records, that have outperformed the S&P. And that's how I pick them. And my financial advisor, my Ramsey SmartVestor Pro that I work with, that has the heart of a teacher, will bring me three or four funds that meet those guidelines, will discuss those three or four, and, based on his input and his work to get it to that point, I will choose then what I want to do with my money, and he will go do with my money what I tell him to do.

And that's what you're supposed to do. You see the difference? Yeah, definitely. So, and you go ahead and put in your corner a tax person that you trust. You put in your corner an estate planner that you trust.

You put in your corner an insurance person that you trust. All of these people are in the financial arena, which means all of them are required to have the heart of a teacher.

When I hire a lawyer in a lawsuit or in some other situation, their job is not to tell me what to do, although some of them took that class in law school, and occasionally they get fired by me for doing that, because I'm not putting up with an arrogant butt attorney. So you're going to do what I tell you to do in my situation, but you're here to advise me and teach me the law in that situation. That's different than my lawyer said I have to, my lawyer don't say I have to do nothing. He has to do stuff. I said, that's the way that works.

Same thing with you, dude. That's what I want you to do on all this. And I'm not being a smart aleck, but the point is that people get this stuff backwards because we feel insecure and lacking in knowledge. And so we want to trust the professional, turn our back and walk away. And that's how the patient dies on the table.

Don't do that. You stay in the surgery. You want to learn how this happens. You get your hands in the blood and guts, and you make sure this stuff goes. You're managing it.

You're the manager. These other people are advisors, they're helpers, they're teachers. And build you a little board of directors, and you're going to be worth $8 million in about 20 minutes. if you'll do this. By the time you're 40, this will be $8 million if you watch what you're doing.

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. If you're listening to us, live, the Ramsey Cash Giveaway ends at midnight tonight, December 20th, Wednesday. If you register for free, no purchase necessary, you will be registered to win and possibly be one of the winners for the $5,000 grand prize giveaway. RamseySolutions.com slash giveaway. Jared is in Milwaukee.

Hi, Jared. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thanks. Sure. What's up?

I've got some cash stashed aside for, eventually, a house purchase. Right now, I'm 23 years old, renting an apartment. I'm single. I make about $90,000 a year. My monthly rent is right around $1,000, and I've got around $270,000 saved up for a house.

You are a stud, man. Way to go. I'm so proud of you. Thanks. You know how weird that is, right?

Not really. It's weird. It's a good weird. Is it? When I call you weird around here, it's a compliment, because normal is broke and stupid in America.

Okay? You don't want to be normal. You're amazing, man. Way to go. Thanks.

$275,000.. Where is it? Under the mattress?

It's at a bank. That's good. It's at a local credit union. Right now, it's making about 4%. Not bad.

That's okay. I mean, in all reality, that 4% covers my monthly rent right now. I just don't know if there's a better route, better plan, better, something that I can use that money for to make more. What's your timeline? When do you think you're going to do the house purchase?

Probably in the next three years. Okay. All right. Well, here's some numbers for you. There's really no medium investing.

There's conservative, which is in a savings account, and you're not going to lose any money, but you're not going to make much money, which is where you are right now. You're making 4%, okay? There's nothing wrong with that. If you park it there for the next three years, you're not going to make a bunch of money on your money, but you're not going to lose any money. It turns out, we already figured out what the secret sauce is.

It's Jared. You're the secret sauce. It isn't the investment. None of that money, none of that $275,000 in there because you are some kind of big-time investor. It's in there because you're a big-time saver, right?

Yep. Okay. So, you're the secret sauce, so it's okay. if you leave it there. You follow me?

Yep. Now, the other end of the spectrum is you could move some or all of the money towards something like an S&P 500 index mutual fund. If you did that this year, I haven't pulled it up in a while. I'll try to do it. Hey, Ken, pull up S&P 500 and see what the return is for the year.

while I'm yakking. I think it's north of 15% for the year right now, but the mutual funds, that S&P follows what the stock market does. The stock market is up this calendar year from January to December. You follow me? Yep.

I think it is. I'm pretty sure it is.

Last time I looked was a couple months ago. It was at 15% for the year, but anyway, it could go down, though. If it went down 10%, you'd lose like $20,000.. 26%. 26.2..

For the year. For the year. Yeah. I thought it's way up. That's not realistic.

Well, yeah, we've had a big jump. Yeah, we've had a big jump because interest rates went down and we got an election coming, all this stuff. So, okay. But anyway, the S&P has averaged about 11.6% since it began. So what I do, Jared, is I'll throw money in there, knowing I could lose some, but if I make 10 instead of 4, that's pretty good.

That's another 6% on your $300,000, so that's another 20 grand or 30 grand you're making on your money. Okay? Yep. Okay. So if you want to move some of it, but you've got to understand that it can go down.

Here's your actual numbers.

99% of the five-year periods, any potential consecutive five years, 99 times out of 100 have made money in the S&P since it began. Okay. Safe bet, if you're going to leave it alone five years or more, that you're going to be okay to put your money in that. Okay? Okay.

67%, two out of three times, it makes money on a three-year period.

Okay? Yep. So you've got a one in three chance. you lose some money with your plan if you move some that way. Now, I have been investing a long time, and I've got a little extra money.

This is very precious money for you, and you're young, and this is your first ride, so I don't know if you can emotionally handle losing $10,000 on this.

But if you can, and you want to move half of it over into S&P, you could do that fairly safely with a three-year horizon, but you don't have to do that. You can just sit where you are, because, truthfully, the reason you have money is because of Jared, not because of some sophisticated financial strategy.

Okay. And so, you know, let me just tell you, I think in your case, if I woke up in your shoes, I would just tell you, keep it in that 4% account.

If you're just dying to try something, move 50 grand or something over into an S&P. But I just leave it there. I just think, I don't want you to become disillusioned, because you've worked so hard for this money. Yeah, and I have the feeling he's planning to save up for an all-cash purchase. It feels like that.

We didn't ask. But he's already got $270,000, so at that rate, what's he going to save over the next three years? A lot. Yeah. I mean, if you're Jared's mom and dad, and you're listening, touchdown.

Way to go. You raised an adult, freaking. amazing. He's not a victim. He's not whining.

He's not afraid of work. God, that's awesome. Lord, help us. Get us more Jareds. That's awesome.

Way to go, man. Well done. Trish is with us in Maine. Hi, Trish. How are you?

Hi, Trish. I'm doing well. Good. What's up? How are you?

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

So, I just, I bought my house over the summer, and I paid off all of my debt except for my Jeep, and I got my CD on, I'm a truck driver. And I was just wondering how to manage my money, like where to put it. I do want to purchase a house in the future. You're living in the truck right now? I am.

Okay. Cool. Driving over the road. Got a sleeper. Yeah.

Look at you, girl. How old are you?

I'll be 39 in January. How many states you been in the last year?

All of them except for California, Oregon, and Washington. California made it no fun for a trucker to come in there, didn't they? Not really.

There's some taxes and stuff. You be careful there, girl. Anyway, way to go. You sell what you see in the world. I like you.

How much do you make, Trish?

Well, I mean, I get paid by the mile, so it varies. I mean, what are you going to make in the count? What are you going to pay taxes on, 23??

Probably 55, 60.. That'll do. Okay. Good for you. And you see in the world.

All right. Pretty much. Yeah. So what's your question?

How to... What am I doing with my income? I know from like, I have to save a certain amount, and I have to invest a certain amount, and then I have the rest, but obviously, I have like a little thing. You got a cheap debt. Have you got any money to pay off the cheap?

I do. So. the only reason why I didn't pay it is because the payoff amount is the same as the remainder of my payment, and I just... The remainder of your. what?

The remainder of the payments that I have. I only have like two years left of payment. No. Do you have the money to pay off the cheap today? Yes, I do.

Pay it off when you get off the phone. That's step one. Step two is you need to have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Do you have that done? If you pay off the cheap, do you still have that?

Yes. You got a lot of money. You're doing good. Okay. Then you start putting 15% of your income into retirement.

Get online at Ramsey Solutions and click on SmartVestor for a SmartVestor Pro near you. They'll sit down with you and help you get started with your first Roth IRAs, and you can rock and roll with that. If you got a 401k with a trucking company, you may want to look at that, but I want you to start putting 15% of your income into retirement with a paid-off cheap and an emergency fund, and you're on your way. Have fun out there. Drive safe.

Merry Christmas.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. A young lady driving has seen every state, but I guess somehow I had in my head Over Road was making more than 50 grand, 60 grand. Well, they absolutely can, so give you an idea, you know, it depends on the company, but Walmart, famously, was hiring drivers last year for 90,000 starting pay, so it depends on the company. It depends on the experience, but yeah, she will eventually make more than that.

But I would guess that in her situation, it's either the company or it's her status, so she's early on. Okay. That could be. Yeah. It's on the low side.

Caitlin is with us in Chicago. Hi, Caitlin. How are you? Hi. Good.

How are you? So I've got a question around renting for another year or buying in a few months. So, 26 years old, right now, I rent with my husband, and we've got a three-year-old, and we've got $125,000 saved, but that's like all of our savings.

Okay. What's your household income?

Well, like every month after taxes and everything, we take home about $8,500.. Okay. So that's $100,000 a year, so you're making about $140,000 probably.

And $130,000, something like that. How much debt do you have? Nothing. Nothing. No car debt?

Nope. No student loan debt? Nope. Good for you. What do y'all do for a living?

I work for McDonald's, and then my husband works for a digital marketing firm. Okay. What do you do for Mickey D?

I'm on the menu team over at Corporate. Yeah. I knew you were Corporate, probably at Chicago. Okay. Cool.

Good for you. Well done. All right. Good. What's the house price we're looking at?

Like $424,000-ish, is what would get us enough bedrooms, enough space, and something that's not a fixer-upper. Yeah. Good. $424,000.. I like that plan.

So here's a couple of rules we use to cause people to be in a healthy situation, not a I-got-house-fever-lost-my-mind-and-did-something-stupid situation. Okay? So rule number one is to be debt-free, which you are. Rule number two is when you make your down payment, you need to retain enough to call your emergency fund, which is three to six months of household expenses. We'll call that $15,000, $20,000 in your situation.

Okay. So you've got $100,000 or so to put down. now. Mm-hmm. Okay?

The third thing is don't take out ever, never take out more than a 15-year fixed rate where the payment is more than a fourth of your take-home pay. That's the max. Okay. You can qualify for almost twice that much, but that doesn't mean you need to be that stupid. Don't do that.

Keep it conservative so you can get the house paid off in less than 15 years. That's the goal. Okay? Okay. Because that's a key to building wealth.

long-term. It's a pinch short-term. But I think all of that will still work for you. Then the last thing is if you can figure it out, and you're right on the bubble on this one, if you can make a down payment of 20% or more with a conventional Fannie Mae loan, you avoid PMI, private mortgage insurance. Mm-hmm.

And PMI costs you about $75 a month per 100,000 borrowed. So we're talking about $225 a month on 300K. Okay. That's pretty substantial. And all that is is foreclosure insurance that you buy for the mortgage company.

If they have to foreclose on you, it covers them. It does nothing for you. Okay. But if you put down 20%, you have an 80% loan-to-value ratio, LTV, then you avoid having to buy that ridiculous PMI. So I'd love for you to do that one.

It's not mandatory, but you can see from the numbers that it's a really cool thing to avoid that. Yeah. But the other things I would call mandatory for your future wealth building, and I think you're right on the bubble of being able to do all that, depending on when you do this. And I would go ahead and purchase sometime in this coming calendar, in 2024.. Now, if rates right, this second have been coming down for the last 30 or 45 days, all right, and people are all worried about interest rates, interest rates, interest rates, interest rates.

Listen, don't worry about interest rates. What I want you to do is buy a house the way I just described. That's what I think will cause you to win. And you marry the house and you date the rate.

You follow me? Right. You're buying the right house. And then, if the rates come down, just refinance. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, if you get a six and some change right now and they come down to three or four, refinance. Okay. But you still got the right house. So you marry the house and you date the rate.

Mortgages are temporary. Houses are a lot less than temporary. They're not permanent, but they're a lot less than temporary. Yeah. Okay.

I got to ask her two questions, Dave. Okay. All right. First, earlier today, Kayla, we're very excited, proud of the team. We were rated the number one podcast on all of Apple iTunes.

This is stuff people want to know from a Mickey D's menu expert. Anything exciting coming out in 2024 on the new menu? I'm not asking you to tell us. That you're allowed to tell. I know, you can't tell us.

Just what can you tell us? People want to know. I don't know. I don't know. You do know, but you don't know what you can say.

Is there something exciting coming? Can you tell us that? Yes or no? Every day is exciting. Oh, great corporate answer.

Last question. You're amazing. Yeah, you should run for office. That was a great answer. That would work on Meat to Press every Sunday.

All right. Next question. What's your all-time favorite menu item?

Probably double cheeseburger. Okay. Or the nugget. The nugget. Interesting.

All right. Mine's the Big Mac. The Big Mac. Special sauce, lettuce, cheese. I mean, that's it.

It's a good one. Child of the 80s right there. There you go. Child of the 70s, too. Get to that one.

In 1976, it was $1.16 to get a Mac and a small Coke. No way. And we'd go through drive-thru when we were in high school. Wow. Yeah, that's a different world.

You're old, Ramsey. Your dad got them right, and I'm proud of it. I'm alive. Shut up.

By the way, Dave, you were talking to her about a 15-year rate. Today, right, this moment, it's at 6.2.. That's what I thought. I thought it was at a low 6. For a 15-year.

But, I mean, it was up 7 and some change just 30 days ago. That's right. Yeah, so we're seeing the rates trend in the right direction. And what's happening is, here's what's weird. It's Christmas time, which is a weird time for people to put houses on the market.

But a bunch of people listed their houses in the last three weeks. Without question. The inventory is coming back up. So, we may see a real estate revival in the spring, which you can pretty well count on the Fed trying to make sure that Biden stays in office and drops this rate. What are you saying, Dave?

I'm just saying that there's a plan here. There's a plan that's sus, as George would say. Suspect. Apparently, that's a thing to say sus now. But, you know, there you go.

I don't know. It's about like that student loan forgiveness thing. That's something I never thought I'd ever hear you say. Why in the crap did they run these rates up so they could run them down and look like heroes? Oh, there's that.

Yeah. Okay. What do I know? Had to stop his inflation, so then he can be the hero. Stop the inflation, be the hero, and stop and get rid of the all caused by self-induced.

Yeah. Okay. What do I know? Yeah. I'm a little cranky about it, Dave.

I have the gift of cynicism. You do. It's a spiritual gift. You do. You do.

I have insight into these things. I kind of got into that higher rate on my savings account.

It's going down. You know, that's weird. I'm a little disappointed about it. I hadn't thought about that in years. I was telling one of my buddies about this.

So in 1981, I was in college. Yeah. My grandpa, who never touched the stock market with a 10-foot pole, but he saved like a crazy man. He saved everything he made. Had money markets.

He was so proud of his money markets. over at the Savings and Loan. I got money markets. At those rates. You know what?

He had dadgum money market paying 14% at one point. Yeah. That's no joke. That was crazy. I mean, that's a savings account paying 14% in 1981..

That's right. But I mean, fixed rates on mortgages were 17 and a half. So there you go. What a wild world. It's like a credit card or something.

Yeah. Yeah. Distant memory. Foggy. Way back there.

But I can still see him talking about it with a gleam in his eye. He was so excited that his money markets were performing at such a high rate. The only time in history you saw a double-digit money market rate return over 10%. I'm guessing, though, he wasn't carrying a mortgage or what do you think? Oh, yeah.

He hadn't seen any debt. But he also didn't touch the stock market because he was a child of the Great Depression. Of course. He was 26 when the market crashed. Too speculative.

Yeah. He wasn't going to touch that. Yeah. I was gambling. I'm not doing that.

He saved every dime he made, though. He was amazing. He was a good man. Wow! This is how it's done, boys and girls.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsey, personality, number one, best-selling author of the book, Paycheck to Purpose, is my host this hour. The phone number is 888-825-5225.. Merry Christmas to you, America.

We're glad you're here. Kate's, in San Antonio, Texas. Hi, Kate. How are you? Hi.

How are y'all? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Yeah. Basically, I just got introduced to you. I started binging everything, and I'm going to try to be as fast as possible.

I'm trying to get working on the baby steps.

My problem is income. It's really not that great. I'm wanting to increase it. I found some courses that I think could really help me increase my income so that I can really get ahead on this stuff, but unfortunately, it kind of does involve, I guess, still borrowing money a little bit. I don't know if that might be a good investment to make or if I should, I don't know, try to figure out something else.

Okay. Let's start with some facts. What do you make right now, and what are you doing to make that? What's your income? Yes, sir.

Right now, I make $30,000 with one job. I have a day job. I have a job on the weekends that I make a couple hundred with as well. What are you doing? What kind of work for the 30K?

I work for the state. Okay. Doing what? Clerical work. Clerical.

Okay. What are these classes you're thinking about? It's a business analytics class. I did a lot of research in my area, and the salary for that can be up to 30 to 60, or, sorry, not 30, 50 to 60,000 entry levels. What's the class cost?

The class costs 9,000.. You don't need to go in debt for that. Well, I don't have any way to save for it, really, because everything that I'm doing is kind of keeping me at a baseline and paying off the base of my debt right now. How much debt do you have now?

Like 30,000.. On what? For student loans, my car, and stuff like that. What's your degree in?

Oh, I didn't finish. That was just for one semester. 30,000 for one semester? Well, not, sorry, for one year, not one semester. Still?

Okay, wow. How much is the car of that debt?

10,000.. So, what are you, 25?? Yeah. Okay. You sound like it.

It takes about that long to make a mess this big. Okay.

You're okay. Yeah, I'm trying to get out of it. That's why I was like, for example. Here's what we need to do. We need to back up.

Yes, sir. The thing that's motivating you is, I need a better job. I need a better career field. That's what's motivating you, and I agree with that motivation. Is that correct?

Yes, sir, basically. Yeah. I don't want to be a secretary at the state making 30.. I want to be doing something that makes 60,, 80, 90, or 100.. That's what was running through your brain.

That's what got us here. It wasn't? you woke up one morning and go, you know, since I was six, I always wanted to do business analytics. That didn't come up. You just are looking for some more money.

Am I right? Yes, sir. Okay. Yes, sir. So, that means you have called on the perfect day, because Ken Coleman's goal in life is to help you find the highest paying possible job that you are passionate about and good at, and love going to work every day, not just more money.

And it's not business analytics for you. So, you're on, Ken. Ready, go. Yeah. Well, I think you've done a lot of thinking about the type of work that you love.

You thought about it when you went into college. What do you want to do? And don't get hung up on job title. What kind of work would you love to do? If you knew you couldn't fail, and we got you fast forwarded into the type of work, what kind of work do you want to do?

Yes, sir. So, really, I would love to be an educator. And I did work in education. That's kind of also what was helping me, like, with school and stuff. I was like, okay, I can get this job and I can be an educator.

Teaching who? Teaching those people what?

For me, it was typically about middle age to high school kids. Okay, middle school, high school. Yes, sir, middle school, high school. I'm very passionate about, like, you know, geography, social studies, and world languages. So, I would really like to teach them those about those things.

Okay, so the problem with that is, or it's not a problem, the requirement for that is you've got to have a degree. Yes, sir. And we can't afford school right now. Right. So, as long as we know what the long-term play is, now, we begin to back into this and we go, okay, we know what it takes to get out of debt.

We're going to walk you through the baby steps. We can help you there. But we've got to take care of that now so that we position ourselves for the next. Yeah, so the 35-year-old Kate is in high school teaching geography. Yes, sir.

Now, what are the steps to get there? Yes. So, we've got to get out of debt first. Yes, sir. Right?

We can't go to school. We're not going to get a student loan. I just pulled up a headline. Today, millions of people are not paying their student loan payment right now. So, I don't want you to do what everybody else is doing, because what everybody else is doing is going to make you further broke.

Yep. All right? Yes, sir. So, we've got to get out of debt now and then we've got to cash flow school so that you can come out and make. the median income for teachers in the United States right now is about $61,000..

But that could be higher depending on where you teach. Right. The next class you take is going to be after you're debt-free. Yep. And it's going to be towards becoming a geography teacher in high school.

That's right. That's the next class you take. It's not a business analytics class. And you're going to pay cash for that class when you take it. In the meantime, what are we going to do?

Every high-paying side job that you can come up with, you don't need to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there. You don't need to go on vacation. You need to go. get your life back, because right now, all this crap owns you. You don't own it.

And so, you're about to get in gear. I want you working 80, 90 hours a week, every high-paying side hustle. I don't want you taking anything cute or fun on the side. I want you to take stuff that makes a lot of money. As long as it's legal and moral, and you're not ashamed to do it, I want you to go, do it.

Right now, I want you to make as much. If you walk dogs or you pick up dog poop, I don't care what it is. I want you to make as much money as you can make in a short period of time. Ready, set, go. Because the faster you get this debt paid off and the faster you have $10,000 in the bank is how fast you take the first class and then the second class and then the third class, and then you become a geography teacher.

Don't worry about overworking. Just before you die, you will pass out. Don't worry about it. Have at it. Go for it.

Go for it. Go for it. Go for it. Hustle. Grind.

Get it.

That's how you do it. Hold on. We're going to have Austin pick up and get you signed up for Ken's stuff. We're going to give it all to you free. It's the Get Clear assessment.

You need to take that and make sure you're right on track. And the From Paycheck to Purpose book. We're going to give them both to you. Now, get it. Get it.

Here's the deal, Kate. $2,500 a month would knock this debt out in one year. It is doable. Doing it the way Dave told you. It's just working really hard and putting every cent towards the debt.

Get it.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, the book Proximity Principle. Both of them number ones. He also did an assessment that we gave that last caller called the Get Clear assessment. It is one of the most popular things in the Ramsey store right now.

A ton of you come and get that. Ken, what do we charge for it? Like $30?? $30.. $30..

It takes you about 20, 25 minutes to take the thing, max. Oh, yeah. Maybe less. Then it spits out the things you are good at, the things you love, the passions, and helps you identify the direction you're going. It's not merely a personality profile.

We have the disc personality profile in our store as well. A lot of people take that. I love that. I've used it for almost 40 years now. The Get Clear assessment is a step, two steps, three steps beyond that, in that it takes that same kind of information and then says, okay, here's where you'll end up.

Well, it's a self-awareness profile. It lets you know, okay, if I have a lack of confidence, maybe I'm feeling a little imposter syndrome, this is what I'm really good at. In other words, your skills. Think of your skills or talent as power tools. Then the second measurement is passion.

In other words, what work do I look forward to and lose myself in? Then the third element is what motivates me? You ever wondered if you need to go to a conference or read a book to get motivated? The answer is you really don't. Motivation is about understanding what gets you up out of bed, because these results fire you up.

The three elements come together. We call it a purpose statement, and it shows you what purpose in work looks like. It's actually a job description. If I spend most of my day using what I do best to do, what I love, to produce results that matter to me, guess what? I'm on fire.

You have a famous phrase, you can't light wet wood. It's the idea of you want to hire people who know what they're supposed to be doing with their life. That's what this is. It gives you great personal and professional direction. Yeah.

I think that probably comes from that guy that came in one day and said, I'm burnt out. I said, that's impossible. You were never on fire. I love that story.

Yeah, and that's an example, right? He had no idea what seat on the bus or even what bus he belonged on. And here's the key to that to get clear assessment of why it matters. If you want to increase your income, you'll do it by increasing your impact. And when you are attractive as a candidate, as an actual employee, getting promoted, that all leads to a bigger paycheck, which means we get to the baby steps faster.

That's the tie. And in the hiring and firing sections in entre leadership, and we're teaching businesses and leaders about proper hiring and firing, one of the things I tell people to look for, one of the 12 hiring principles is hire people whose eyes light up. That's right. When they talk about doing that job. So good.

Your body language changes. Their octave changes. Their eyes sparkle when they talk about the opportunity to do that job. That's the kind of thing you need to be aiming at with your life. Yeah.

And Get Clear helps you do that. That's why I'm so proud of this material. It does really well, Ken. It's wonderful stuff. Thank you.

All right. Daryl's in Roanoke, Virginia. Hi, Daryl. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave and Ken.

Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, sir. How can we help? Thanks for taking my call. For my question to make sense, I'm going to lead in with a couple quick points.

I'm getting ready to turn 53.. I'm already retired. My wife is scheduled to receive my pension if I pass away before her. We just paid off our house. We are otherwise debt-free.

I'm 30 years into a term life policy, and I really want to let go of it before it gets expensive. I was just calling to see if that would be the good thing for me to do.

How much have you got in investments?

How much do I have in investments? Yes, sir. I have my pension from my former employer. That's a pay stream to your wife if you die. I'm talking about investments.

I have very little, because we were kind of a low-income family, and I didn't really have much to put away. A 30-year term is out there, but a 30-year term is unusual. Are you sure you have term insurance? Are you sure it's not whole life or universal life? No, I've already been paying it because when I was in the military and I was 23,, I started it.

Yes, that doesn't mean it's term insurance necessarily. I'm asking, it's unusual to have a 30-year term insurance policy. You mean it's been a level term for 30 years. You've never had an increase in pay and the premium? No, the premium has increased.

I'm just saying I'm 30 years into it. So every year it's increased? It started out at $5 a month. How often did it increase?

About every five years. I'm up to $40 a month now. Okay, and for how much insurance? $100,000.. Okay, all right.

Well, the way we answer your question is, it sounds like you did buy a renewable term, and it's just your age is catching up with you. because, of course, statistically, the older you are, the more likely you are to die. No kidding. And they charge more for it. That's how that works, right?

So the way we answer the question is, if you die today without $100,000 in term insurance, with a paid-for house, the kids are grown and gone, or no kids? We have one left in the home, but he's an adult, and he'll probably be out in the next couple years. Okay. Well, he might be out tomorrow if you died today, because I'm not sure your wife can afford him without $100,000.. Because all she's got to live on is her pension, right?

I have a $457,000 of about $35,000.. She is a teacher's aide, a teaching assistant with the local schools, and she has a retirement with the state's pension. Okay. So if you die, can she be okay without the $100,000?? Mathematically, not emotionally.

That's why, yeah. Without any professional advice, I feel like she will, but that's... Well, I mean, it's pretty much math. I mean, her pension, your pension, and no bills except insurance on the house and taxes on the house, because there's no debt. She's not going to be supporting a grown person.

He's going to be gone. And with your pension, her pension, and whether or not she works the little teacher's aide job or not, can she pay her bills? That's the question. You know that. You don't need professional help for that.

You can do a budget and look at that. Yeah. Well, right now, with my pension and her pay and my VA disability, we're... Your VA disability goes away when you do. Right.

Yeah. She wouldn't have that. We make about 50 sticks right now. She wouldn't have that. So can she pay her bills on your pension, which she gets, if you die, right?

To my calculation, she could. Okay. And talk to her about that. Right. Before you drop this.

Because if $40 means your wife is taken care of, you, keep the policy.

But if your wife's taken care of without it and the two of you agree that we're paying for something we don't need, then you can release it. Because, basically, the rule works like this. The way you think about it is this. If the kids are... Because you've got to feed kids if they're little.

We've got to pay debt if we have debt. But if the kids are grown and gone, everything's paid off, house and everything, and we have a pile of money, and you die, mathematically, she isn't going to notice. You don't have a pile of money, but you've got a pension. So, mathematically, that's when you become self-insured with financial planning. So you have...

For the rest of you out there, you're 56.. The kids are grown and gone. The house is paid off. Everything's paid off. And you've got $700,000 and a 401K, and you die.

I think she can probably make it. You've become self-insured by investing and getting out of debt and your need for insurance and raising the kids and kicking them out. That's what does it. Okay. But if you keep the mortgage, keep the kids, and keep the debt, you're going to need it.

You're going to need to keep insurance. So financial planning, working the steps that we talk about, puts you in a position that you're self-insured. I think you may be. You're right on the bubble. I mean, if you told me you had $300,000 in a mutual fund and your 401K, I'd feel a whole lot better.

But you don't. In your case, I think she's okay, but I want her to be okay with being okay. This is the Ramsey Show.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Joel is with us. Hi, Joel. How are you, man? Better than I deserve.

Very cool. Merry Christmas to you. Merry Christmas to you. Where do you live? Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

Lancaster, awesome. Welcome. Good to have you, brother. And how much debt have you paid off?

$65,437.01.. Love it. How long did this take? 33 months. Good for you.

And your range of income during that time? $42,000 to $106,500.. I like that. In a little under three years, you triple your income, almost triple your income. What in the world?

What do you do for a living? IT. And were you in that field before? I was in the field during, and I did take a side job for about three weeks at McDonald's. And during that time, people from town went through the drive-thru, and they were asking me, what are you doing there?

And I said, I got bills to pay. There you go. So I had a few people ask me if I could help them with IT problems, networks, and long story short, I helped a lot of local businesses wire up computer networks and do Wi-Fi for large buildings. Yeah, good for you. That's some great side money.

Yeah. Good side, hustle. Using your skills. Excellent job. What kind of debt was the $65,000??

Yeah, so I had two credit cards and a lot of health care debt and a bunch of stuff pop up from a divorce. So I just had a lot of surprises along the way. And during my debt-free process, I had a lot of health issues. So I had a lot of ongoing expenses. So the majority of my debt was actually paid off in the last six months.

Wow. Okay. How are you doing now, health-wise? Much better. Good.

I'm glad. Getting all debt was probably the best medicine. It is good medicine. Your body doesn't have to carry around that stress. Yeah.

And it's heavy. Very heavy, yeah. So that's very cool. Very cool. And you get the health issues behind you, you end up with more money because that's expensive.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry you went through that, but I'm glad you're here now. Well done. Well done.

So what started this whole process 33 months ago with the Ramsey process? That's a good question. It actually started with a really low point in my life. Woke up one day and I was separated. So I was scared.

It was the first day of the lockdown. So one of the first things I did is I actually emailed the show. Someone reached out and responded and said they would hook me up with a Ramsey coach. Your wife leaves on the first day of the lockdown? Yeah.

Her timing sucks. Yep.

Wow.

So I. actually, it was a four year process, but the first year I had to move on from that. But regards, it started with that financial coach and she really calmed me down. You got one of the Ramsey coaches? Yeah.

Okay. And, you know, she pointed out that I didn't have to pay all the expensive money for a divorce. So I found a lawyer that did a pro bono. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Okay. So from there, and the secret I found to get out of debt is I had to surround myself with people. So whether it was support groups, going biking with the guys, just finding more work, getting to know people, gotten involved with the church, I had just found myself surrounded. And the most important people were my parents. My father's, actually here with me.

And, to be honest, I think a big part of the reason why I got out of debt is because my parents brought me up right. Yeah. Well, I mean, your life has been completely turned upside down and transformed. And in the middle of that, you said, I am not carrying this debt. Wow.

I mean, you're facing health issues, a divorce, a pandemic. I mean, God Almighty, you get the Fauci quarantine and a dadgum separation and divorce all in the same lick. And that had to mess up your income simultaneously. And was your health bad about the same time? Quite bad.

I mean, you got like a perfect storm trap going on there. That's amazing. Wow. So I want to follow up there because I think there are a lot of people that are watching and listening to your story right now. And they got a lot of other factors going on in their life that are bad and may be causing the money issues.

And they look at getting out of debt, and it seems insurmountable. I'm just curious with everything that Dave just laid out, that you shared that you were going through, how much did the focus on the baby steps, the focus to get out of baby step two, how much did that help you overcome all that other garbage that you were dealing with? Did it play a factor? A huge factor. To be honest, I was in the first and second step, going in and out.

You know, there were some months where I would deplete that thousand dollar emergency fund. And again, going back to people and surround myself, you know, there are some months that were tough. So people from the church would feed me. Mom would feed me. Stuff like that.

And God showed up in amazing ways. I should have actually owed more debt, but I even had a local church step up and help me pay off some of my medical bills. So God was behind every corner of it. That's powerful. Wow.

Look at you. Well done, sir. I'm proud of you. You're a hero. You fought through some pretty serious stuff there.

It's amazing. I mean, and now you're the other side of all of it. Wow. Yeah. And a funny fact, actually, when I first started off with my debt free journey, I didn't have any feeling behind it.

It was like, well, I get out of debt. There was just no emotion behind it at the time. So one of the things I said to myself, well, if I get out of debt, I'm going to do debt free screen. So here I am today. Oh, so, that's like your motivation to come down.

on that stage. We have to mark. this puppy. Got to have some reason to be excited about this, right? We're going to Nashville.

That's right. Load up the truck and head to Beverly. I love it, man. Good for you. Well done.

Well done. I like that. That's fun. You got to have something to aim at. It's one of the reasons we do this.

People have this as a milestone. The main reason we do it is all the people listening, they're going to be inspired because there's somebody out there right now that's facing a job loss, a health problem, and maybe even a relationship problem all at the same time. And they probably have $65,000 in debt. And look at that. And you're sitting up here going, you can do it.

Just your life says they can do it. the way you've lived your life so well. Well done. Thank you. Proud of you.

Very well done. You did most of it in the last six months. Yes. So like half of it. Just about half.

So you've been, but your income came up from $42,000 to $106,000.. So you had a great income. You had your health back. You could see the end of the finish line. There's a light at the end of the tunnel.

It's not a train. And so you're just running hard the last six months. Yeah. It actually got a little easier because I figured out how to do my side work more or actually work less and get more done. So it was really neat.

It was a great learning experience. I got. probably the best part of the debt-free process was finding out what I am made of and who I am. That's awesome. I was going to ask, what's the emotional kickback now that you're done with this?

You're about ready to do the scream. So we're not at the finish line yet, because I know that matters to you. But emotionally, as you look forward in life, relationally, professionally, how do you feel about yourself? Yeah. For the first time, I'm hopeful, happy, and I can truly say that I'm resilient.

You are. You are. So the Ramsey coaches, that's one of the things about the Ramsey coaches. There's several thousand of them that we've trained around America. Some of them watching right now, some of our best and brightest right here.

Some of our best coaches right here right now, came down to watch this from inside our building. But we've got them all over the nation that have been trained by us. And one of the things they do when I occasionally get someone intersect my life, that's at the very, very, very bottom where you were when all that stuff happened. And then you don't have the strength to carry yourself right. then.

They just pick you up and carry you through that. So true. They get the first few steps under you and just hold you up. And then, once your feet start touching the ground again, they'll let you go, let you run. But sometimes you've just got to have somebody walk with you.

And you had a coach. step in and do that exact thing with you. I'm so proud of you guys. Well done, sir. You and the coach that helped you.

Well done. Very, very, very well done. What do you tell people? the key to getting out of debt is? Do the baby steps, one at a time.

In order. In order. There's a reason that one is before two is before three. Yep. And if the next one doesn't make sense, focus on the current one.

Yeah, I like that. That's good. Four is after three for a reason. Yeah, that's good. I like that.

Very good. All right. We've got the live and give box for you. The Baby Steps Millionaires book, which that's the next chapter in your story. The Total Money Makeover book to give to someone that's struggling and hurting.

Financial Peace University membership. All of that is for you to enjoy or give away. And our way of saying thanks for coming down from Lancaster, Pennsylvania to do your debt-free screen. Joe, you're amazing. Yeah.

You're amazing, dude. You're a hero. $65,000 paid off in 33 months, making $42,000 to $106,000 while life happened. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. A debt-free. There it is. That's the reason.

This is the Ramsey shot.

I know you work hard for your money. And the key to keeping more of it in your pocket is by making a plan for your spending with a budget. And EveryDollar is the budgeting app that I use personally, because it's perfect for looking every dollar you make in its little president face and telling it exactly where you want it to go. Just like you told that guy in traffic exactly where you wanted him to go. And even better, EveryDollar walks you through the entire budgeting journey, so you always know your next right step.

Download EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. We're glad you're with us. Merry Christmas, America. Eric is in Indianapolis. Eric, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Gentlemen, thank you for taking my call. It's an honor to speak with you. Honor to speak with you. What's up? My question is, about a month ago, my wife and I decided that we were going to take the final amount of our mortgage, which was about $49,000, and pay it off.

Good. Because we wanted to be debt-free and we didn't want it just sitting in our bank account.

My concern is, since that's occurred, I've not received anything from the bank saying that I paid it off. When I look on my account online, it's all zeros. That's good. I don't have any sort of documentation other than that. What kind of mortgage did you have, a traditional mortgage or a bank loan, or what?

It was a VA home loan. Okay, with who? It was through Chase. Okay. All right.

Chase is roughly the size of the federal government and about as efficient.

Okay, so note, not to panic. All right. Number one, you've got zeros on your account, so that's a good sign. I think you have paid it off. There's not a question.

they think you've paid it off. You think you've paid it off, right? Correct. Technically, what needs to occur is they will file a lien release, a mortgage payoff, at a release of deed, a release of the deed of trust, a release of note, at your local county seat courthouse. If you live in Indy, it's Indy.

Okay. Whatever county you live in, the courthouse records the deeds, and they also record the mortgage release. That is the important thing, because that clears your title. Typically, they will send that to the deed when they finally get around to doing it. It might take them three months.

Okay. I wouldn't worry about it. But they'll typically send it to the register of deeds, the mortgage release. The register will file it, stamp it, send it back to them, and they'll send it to you.

Okay. If you are worried about it at some point and maybe they never sent it to you, you don't have to have the receipt. The only person that has to have the receipt is the courthouse. It needs to be recorded as being paid off. A lien release, a mortgage payoff release, okay, form at the courthouse.

So, you know, that's what you want to verify has been done. if you want to be nerdy about it. You want to call the courthouse or go down there and say, hey, look up my mortgage. I paid it off. I want to see if they have released the lien.

yet. I want to see if they've released the mortgage. And it's a one-page thing. You're going to get a little bit of it. It looks like a little legal document that's one page long.

It'll be folded up. Have a couple of red stamps on it from being filed at the courthouse. It'll be in your mailbox. They'll send it to you. It's like the final paid receipt kind of thing.

But all they're doing is giving you a copy of what was filed at the courthouse. You can lose that and it won't matter. What matters is that the Register of Deeds at the courthouse doesn't lose it. That matters.

Follow me? Understood. Okay, so check courthouse into January, if you hadn't heard anything, and start calling Chase and go, dude, y'all need to release this mortgage. What the crap? It's been 90 days.

Get off your butt. You know, and start jacking on them a little bit, because they truly are. I mean, it's like working with a DMV. I mean, they're just awful. It's just.

they're horrible. These mega banks are just the worst. But they will get around to it. They do have a system. But they are in no hurry.

To them, you're one of 80 bazillion people that they're doing this with. Yeah, I love that quote. You said they're bigger than the federal government. It's really true, the amount of people. They're not going to move quickly for you because, honestly, they have to be in a state of shock that someone actually paid their house off.

That's part of it. No, I mean, think about how many mortgages Chase owns. That's a lot. I mean, how many credit cards Chase owns. I mean, how many towers full of people who work for them and don't do their work most days because they hate their job.

And, you know, oh, my God, it's just pitiful. So that's what you're dealing with. Yeah. Eva is in Brooklyn. Hi, Eva.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave and Ken. Thank you for having me. Sure. What's up?

So I currently have credit card debt at a 0% interest rate, which will begin occurring interest in May. This was before I was a listener. And I'm contemplating whether I should use stocks or mutual funds to pay it off. Alternatively, I could become more intense about paying it off over the next five months. How much credit card debt do you have?

$18,000.. What do you make a year?

Now I make $150,000.. Good for you. What do you do for a living? I work in the architecture field. You're amazing.

Well done. How much have you got in a single stock? So I have $30,000 in stocks, and that would be considered short-term gains. And then I have $160,000 in mutual funds, which would be long-term, and then $40,000 in retirement. Good for you.

Well done. I'd pull enough out of the mutual funds today, pay it off today.

Okay. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Why are you kidding me? You're playing footsie with this stuff.

You've got a mosquito in your house. Just shoot the thing.

Okay. And I won't be charged more taxes or fees? You'll be charged taxes on whatever you cash out on those mutual funds. You said it's long-term gain, so it would be a 15% gain on the gain. if there is any gain.

And I don't know when you put the mutual funds in, what your basis is, but we know 100% of it's not a gain. So let's say there's a $2,000 gain on what you pull out. You might have $300 in taxes, but I don't give a crap. Get rid of this credit card debt. Cut up those stupid cards, too.

Get out of that business. I will. I already have. Yeah, you're too smart for that business. Get away from those people.

They're not good for you. Okay, will do. Thank you. Yeah. The percentage interest doesn't matter.

The idea of being free matters.

It's just strange.

We have completely, and I guess it's because we got trained by these rip-off industries with this debt product. Sure. But to be normalized. It's normal to have a credit card. Everybody has a car payment.

Everybody has a mortgage. Oh, shut up. Everybody's broke and dumb, too. I don't want to do that. That won't be everybody.

That's crazy. But we get so normalized with this stuff that they have tricked us into only analyzing our personal situation through the lens of math. Yeah. We are leaving out the emotional, relational, spiritual bandwidth that is being taken up. Now, let's just talk about this for a minute.

It's a great point. This woman makes $150,000 a year. She is smart. Yeah. She's a brilliant lady.

Okay? And the amount of bandwidth. She had to make a phone call to a national radio show, because $18,000 at 0% is taking up bandwidth when she's got a hundred and something thousand bucks laying in a mutual fund. Correct. Because the 0% we've been taught.

You're exactly right. This is the major. She didn't want to feel dumb. Right. She didn't want to feel wrong.

Yeah. She wants somebody that's an expert. Yeah. Somebody with a briefcase 20 miles from home to tell her what to do. Right.

And I'm not picking on her. It's just the state of our psyche. My point is to consider this whole debt issue only through the lens of math is extremely naive. There are so many more layers to slavery than the simple math. Slaves don't have choices.

Slaves lay awake at night worrying about where they're going to eat. Slaves aren't generous. Slaves have a different personality style. Slaves keep a job that they don't want to keep because they got to pay the bills. Slaves are not even as nice to their own spouses.

The borrower is slave to the lender. There are elements, there are layers in our lives that are much bigger than the 0% interest. And yet we've been taught that, oh, well, I mean, you could borrow money at 0% and put it in a mutual fund. We're not going to. The psychological weight, the anxiety of that is not even brought up.

That's right. This is really about freedom. And everybody longs to be free to make a choice, to do what they want to do when they want to do it. You can't do that when you're shackled to debt. That's the big takeaway.

She's not shackled in a way that's limiting her. But it's just interesting that she's not the way she thinks. In a brain as smart as hers, and she's just an example. I mean, I think she's awesome. I'm not picking on her.

But in a brain as smart as hers, this $18,000 at 0% was taking up way more space than she realized it was. That's exactly right. In her brain. That is not 0%. That's correct.

That's a very good point. That's the matrix, though. They've trained us to think, well, the number's good, so put up with it. Because it's a good number. Yeah.

I'm smart because I got 0%. Yeah. It's their money. I mean, this couch I'm sitting on, 0%. 90 days, same as cash.

It rooms. there, they went. Oh, my gosh. This is the Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Merry Christmas. We're so glad you're with us. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality.

Number one, bestselling author. Host of the Ken Coleman Podcast. He is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. Thank you for joining us.

Nate is with us in Austin, Texas. Hi, Nate. How are you? What's up, guys?

How are you guys doing today? Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? All right, so I actually just turned 30 yesterday. Happy birthday.

Thank you. I am debt-free.

I am on Baby Step 4, 5, and 6, I guess.

And my income is about $85,000 to $100,000 a year.

So my question is, I'm trying to save up for a house, but I was thinking of going on a different route. So I want to try to save up as much money as I can for the next two to three to four years, right? And I want to basically buy a piece of land and put a mobile home on it and just try to pay it off in one big chunk. I can save up pretty much 75% to 80% of my income. You're single?

I have a girlfriend.

But my point is you're not married, and so you don't have to talk her into living in a trailer. No, no, no. Okay. Yeah, so my question is, should I try to save up as much money as I can and try and just pay something off cash? If you bought a piece of land and put a very, very, very, very inexpensive trailer on it, that would mean you'd be living rent-free.

Yeah. And you could very quickly then save up the money to build a house and get rid of that trailer. But whatever you pay for that trailer is going to be lost money. So we're not talking about $30,000 and we're not talking about $20,000.. We're talking about $10,000 or less.

Yeah. Which ain't much, dude. Mm-hmm. This is not a high standard of living here.

Yeah, correct. Yeah, your girlfriend's not going to be impressed with your abode.

Yeah, so we already kind of talked about it. She doesn't really care where she lives. Well, she's not living there. You are. Yeah, but don't tell her this, but I'm probably going to marry her in 2024..

Oh, okay. Now we got a different part of the equation. Yeah, yeah. That's what I've been naming it in this whole conversation. Your secret is safe with us.

You just challenged us and 30 million people. I was going to say. There's just about 30 million of us that have to keep your secret now. But anyway, let me just tell you, it's a whole different equation for you to live in a $10,000 trailer for four years or your wife to live there for four years. And I know what she says, but it's just a different equation.

You can count on it. Guys, we can sleep under a bridge. It doesn't bother us. Not me. Ladies are.

Well, no, that's true. And, you know, we get accustomed to the finer things we do, Ken. But, I mean, Motel 6 is roughing it. I'm just saying. She may change her mind halfway through this deal.

I agree with you. My question is, why are we in a, I'm not saying it's a hurry, but why is this the scenario? Why isn't it, let me save a little longer. Why not just rent an apartment and save a bunch of money? If you're going to get married, I'd rent an apartment and save a bunch of money.

Me too. I don't get living out on the land. I would. I might live out on the land if it was me by myself, just because I love the math part of it. I know.

So, yes, I'm actually having a duplex in Austin. And it's, um, I'm probably going to be there for the next two to three to four years. Cause my rent is like insanely low. Well, yeah. I'll just stay there with her.

then after you're married and just, and then you don't need the trailer, but just pay cash for the land and then save up and pay cash for the build. I'm okay with that. Yeah. That's not a, that's a no brainer. I like that better.

Yeah. That, that makes a lot more sense, but we've had over the years, Nate, we've had a lot of people that are listeners, that have done the, I'm going to buy a piece of land and live. We'll build a barn with a bedroom in it, a barn dominium, and live in the barn while we build the house. I've had people do that. I've had people buy the $10,000 trailer, put it on there.

They do that. But I always answer questions like, what would I do if I were in your shoes? If I woke up and I was you knowing? what I know now, and what I know now is Sharon's not living in that trailer. Yeah.

That's a great point. Not cause she's a snob, cause she's not. And not cause she wouldn't follow me anywhere. Cause she would. Cause you know that, you know, she'd do anything for me.

That's right. Oh my God.

Yeah. Yeah. Follow me anywhere. As long as it's to the Ritz or the four seasons. But the,

I'll follow you to the pool. I'll follow you to the pool. I'll follow you to the resort. You just know better. I'll follow you to the club.

The point is, you just know better. Yeah. We're old and we've done it. We've been there, done that on a sacrifice thing. So, but yeah, but the point is, if I were at 26 and married, that would not, that'd be a different equation for me to do that by myself.

Then I would ask my wife to do that. That's the truth. Now, some ladies are perfectly fine with that and some aren't, and there's nothing wrong with either camp. It's not a bad, it's not a moral judgment and it's not a snobbery thing or anything like that. I'm not too good to do that.

So just keep your stupid little trolling to yourself on that. But that's not getting to do with that. It just got to do thinking through what is realistic. What is sustainable? What am I going to be able to do for a long enough period of time that it has the effect?

Yeah. Yeah. And it's going to take a minute. That's right. Carla is in Lansing, Michigan.

Carla, how are you? I'm good. Thank you, Dave and Ken, for taking my call. I really appreciate it. Sure.

How can we help? I, well, my question is I have an indexed annuity and I haven't, and I have an income for life rider on it. Um, the, I'm thinking of that. it might be a good idea for me to exercise that. But because I don't know a lot about this, I thought I would call and get some expert advice.

How much, how much money you got in this thing? Uh, it's accumulation value is 103,000.. How old are you? I'm 75.. You have other money.

I'm debt free. You have other money. I have, yeah, I have 32,000 in a high yield savings. This is all your money. And I have a paid for home.

Yeah.

Um, I think the best route is going to be for you to cash the whole thing out and put it in a much better investment in a good mutual fund. I think, but without doing a detailed analysis on it, I'm not positive. That's the case. I would not do what you're talking about. The, the, it's not the best use of your a hundred thousand for you to take the lifetime.

I don't think so. Sit down with one of our smart investor pros, click smart investor at Ramsey solutions.com. They can help you do a detailed analysis and show you what your options are. And then you'll be able to make the decision. They'll come at this, not telling you what to do, but with the heart of a teacher, showing you how all the math works.

And then you can decide what's best. I think it's going to come out best for you to cash it and put it in some mutual funds, but I'm not a hundred percent. Sure. This is the Ramsey show.

Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz. When it comes to teaching kids about money, moms tell me all the time, just how overwhelming it can feel to get started. That's why I'm so excited to tell you about financial piece kids. This toolkit was designed to make learning to save, earn, spend and give money fun for both you and your kids. The best part, it only takes 10 minutes a day.

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Merry Christmas, America. The Ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by neighborly, your hub for home services for over 40 years. Neighborly has an exclusive network of trained local service providers backed by the neighborly. done. Right.

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You guys check them out, visit neighborly.com slash Ramsey right now. And you can learn more. Today's question comes from Joyce in New Hampshire. I am far from a helicopter mom, but I'm desperate to find extra guidance for my son. He lives in Georgia, is 25 and graduated.

You may protest too much. Is that, is that how the phrase goes? Uh, graduated from SCAD, that Savannah college of art and design. for anybody wanting to know what she's talking about. in 2020, with a degree in digital and game design.

He got a job in e-sports industry. Wow. Using his design degree, loved his job. But in October, 2022, 20% of the company was laid off. The same has happened at several companies.

since then, he has applied to literally thousands of jobs. I'll come back to that in a second. for digital design, project manager, project management, UX UI jobs. He has had interviews and several times he's made it to the final rounds, only to lose to people who were hired because they had just a bit more experience than him. He's currently at a restaurant, exhausted, deflated, and just existing, uh, as his mom, it's been devastating to watch.

I'm so proud of him for strength, faith and resiliency. However, I fear all of these will run out soon. Okay. Uh, a couple of things to point out here. in the question, I'm not sure he's applied to literally thousands of jobs.

That's a long, it takes a long time. If he's done that, that's part of the problem. Uh, this is the online submission only where, folks, you might as well be playing the lottery, go, look up the odds on winning the lottery. And you know what I'm talking about here? This is you're getting filtered out by AI.

You are basically a nameless, faceless person and you're playing the job odds. We don't, we don't use AI at Ramsey. But we'll have 15,000 applications this year. Yeah. And we're not going to look at all of them.

Yeah. It's, it's not, I mean, I mean, we look at all of them, but like for half a second. Yeah. And so if you, if that's all you did to apply for a job here and you count that as I've applied for thousands, the, you, you, you've wasted your time, a hundred percent. And I hate to say that, but that's the reality.

You waste your time. If all you're doing is monster.com LinkedIn, and you're just dumping, you're downloading zipper, you're downloading thousands of applications simultaneously. And all you're doing is just spraying and praying. That's exactly right. Second thing that's jumping out to me in this question is he's gotten to final rounds a few times only to be hired by someone had a little more experience with him.

This was two things as his mom. If you want to give him some wisdom and encouragement in this, we want to point out here. Number one, he's made it to some final rounds. So get back up on the horse. Welcome to the real world.

This is competition, where people are applying for these jobs and you got to win and you're not going to win every time. This is what sports has taught me that I could give my absolute best, and it's not good enough. And that's just the reality. It sucks, but it's the reality. Second thing is, it might be that he's applying for jobs that require more experience than he has.

We see this a lot with young people. My goodness. I've, I've coached thousands of people in their thirties and forties who make this mistake. So what we want to do here is we want to make sure that we're applying for something that I know he has the experience for, and now he's got to win the interview process. Uh, and other than that, there's not much advice I can give you.

I would add one thing. Go for it. Okay. We have a digital art student, right? Right.

Am I missing something? No. Okay. So, um, I'm going to work on interview skills. A hundred percent.

I'm going to work on my grooming, my dress, my smile. Uh, my engaging eye contact, a firm handshake, uh, the ability to connect with the other human. Sometimes people in the creative community and the technology community haven't worked on those skills. Sometimes, sometimes they have, but sometimes they haven't. Uh, and they could be excellent programmers, excellent digital, uh, artists, or whatever he's doing in the gaming world here.

Um, and, and have crummy people skills. Yep. That's possible. but there's... And he's dejected.

Oh, of course. And deflated. And he's coming in with his lips stuck out and his tail dragging behind him. That's right. So you got to get your tail up and be wagging.

That's right. Wagging the tail, wagging the tail. There are seasons where you have to do things like this, but I think there's three words that gets him where he needs to be. Relationships, relationships, relationships. Proximity principle.

A hundred percent. Wrote an entire book on that. Number one bestseller. And it's, it's how I started in my early thirties and broke into the broadcasting industry. It took me nine years to get to this personality role, something I dreamed of.

So I'm not an overnight success. Very few people are, but it is about relationships, folks. It is. Listen, that's where you get in the interview process and you pretty much just have to do a decent job. Well, your friend will get you the interview.

That's right. Because they, but they've already heard good things about you or your friend's dad. That's right. Get you out of the stack. Your friend's mom.

And then you get the interview. Yeah. So I, uh, I was talking to a young man this week, just graduated with his MBA and he was top of his class. He won the award. Number one guy in the class, academically.

And he goes, now that I got my MBA.

And he said, I'm, I just changed the job. Right. And he said, what's your advice? And I said, I don't tell anybody. Right.

Just don't just tell everybody that you want a new job and, and you got an MBA. That's right. That you're an awesome guy and you got an MBA. Not now that I got my MBA. Cause, I gotta tell you, nobody gives a crap.

Yeah. Nobody gives a crap. They don't care. You're the number one guy, but nobody cares. I'm, I'm, I'm a real, I'm a real encourager.

Well, no, it's really true. I mean, it's just, Oh, my gosh. But I said, you know, but you know, the good, the good news is that guy was sharp and he already has two job interviews set up. And I said, how'd you get those? He goes, one of the guys was, was, uh, in the MBA program with me, works at the company.

Got me in, got me in the job. I said, see the relationship, got you the interview. You'll go, hold your head up. Look the guy in the eye, firm handshake. You'll get the job.

And the MBA will just be a little window dressing to the whole thing. It is not the key to the door, You're the key to the door. MBA stands for means barely anything. I came up with that the other day. I'm not, I'm not crapping on MBA students.

That's mean. it's not. It just means that. That's what I said. It means barely anything.

You nailed it. As his mom, I would tell him to get the proximity principle. Um, I tell you what, can we look this up, James, and send them one? We can find out who this was. I don't know.

We just mail him. If he's a caller, I just give it to him right now. But yeah, send him a proximity principle. Um, and, um, have him go to KingColeman.com and look at the interview technique. Uh, we have a free, uh, guide there, how to win the interview, how to win the interview.

And it includes grooming. Yeah, it does, actually. It does. It does. I mean, I tell guys, iron your stinking clothes, or steam them.

Some guys are a job. You look like you just slept in them. Yeah. And then you come in for work and take a bath. Oh, my God.

Yeah. It's amazing. It's true. Yeah. I'm not saying this kid stinks.

I'm not saying that. Yeah. But he could, by the way, since the lady led the question with, I'm not a helicopter mom, this will blow your mind. That's like when you're dating a girl and she says, I'm not crazy. Right.

You should leave with that. A hundred percent of the time. I mean, she's, we're seeing more and more Gen Z parents show up to job interviews with their kid. No, it's absolutely truth. What is this?

It's from HR data. These are no, actually physically showing up, showing up with the kid at that. Let me, that's a hundred percent means I'm not hiring that kid. No. Mommy, walks in, you're done.

Yeah. We're not even going to have a conversation. that happens at Ramsey. I'm going to tell him, don't even conduct the interview.

The Russification of America. Mommy comes on the interview. Yeah. We should have a bat phone for Dave. If somebody ever does that and we call him and he interrupts whatever he's doing, he walks into there and tells the parent what he really thinks about that.

That would be brilliant on television. This is happening. This is real. That's, that's, that's, that's just, you gotta let these kids go. I mean, you have to let them live.

I can't breathe. That's something I knew you weren't going to like that, but that is absolutely real. That is a growing trend where parents just cannot allow their kid to face the unknown. You know, we're picking on this lady, but she's, she's just concerned about herself. Oh yeah.

I don't think she's a helicopter mom, but don't lead with it if you're not. That's, that's a hint there too, but, but seriously, she's worried about him. He ain't been able to get a job. And so she's asking a solid question. It's tough.

It's tough. I appreciate, I appreciate getting to deal with it, because it's, it is hard out there and learning to, but I think the most important thing I've ever learned about getting a job was from you. And that's the proximity principle. Yeah. I think that is more effective.

Oh, it is. Than any, there's no resume technique. There's no guaranteed thing that makes you stand out. No, that's a bunch of crap. And it's not, certainly not a degree.

It's, it's, you got to get, you got to get in the interview. You got to win the interview, but the first thing is you got to actually get the interview. Yeah. And that's the proximity principle. You got to know somebody inside there.

that'll open the door for you. That's a big deal. Huge. It is who, you know, this is the Ramsey show.

Listen, the housing market is crazy. And if you've been on the internet, here's the sentiment. Affording a home is impossible and you're doomed to be a renter for the rest of your life, right? Wrong. George Campbell here.

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality is my cohost. This is the Ramsey show. Merry Christmas, America. Bill is in Indianapolis. Hi, Bill.

Welcome to the Ramsey show. Um, hi, Dave. Thanks for taking the call. Sure. What's up?

Um, I want to find out how bad of an idea it would be to gift my 18 year old son, my childhood home.

Okay. So you own it free and clear. Uh, me and my brother,

your brother wants to give it to him as well. Yes. My brother, uh, he, yes, he's, he's willing to give him his half. Um, yeah, I'm willing to give him the property worth,

uh, roughly right now, probably a hundred. Okay. It needs, tell me about your son.

Um, great kid. I mean, couldn't ask for any better kid through school and stuff like that. He has no ambition that he didn't want to go to college. Um, and I wasn't going to push him, uh, you know, just to send him to drink beer for two or four years. what's he do?

Uh, he, he got him a job, uh, working at a same factory where my wife works. Mm. Making what kind of money?

he's 1850, 1875, something like that right now. So, you know, what's he going to do with his life?

Well, he doesn't know yet. So you led the question, how bad of an idea is it? And I'm not trying to read too much into that, but me thinks that you think it's a bad idea. Why do you think it's a bad idea? Yeah.

What's going on? Well, I mean, just, just handing, handing an 18 year old kid, uh, a house, um, you know, the financial responsibilities, it, it needs it. It hasn't had anything done to it since the eighties. Um, it is stuck in the sixties from, from when it was built, um, wood paneling, uh, acoustic tile, see ceilings. I mean, honestly, to, to make it a, a really good.

for, I mean, it needs to be gutted. so, but, but he could sell it today for a hundred K. I, I think, I think it would bring a hundred thousand right now, just the way it said, needing to be flipped. Yeah. So really the thing is, this 18 year old kid is making $18 to the factory and we don't know what he's going to do with his life.

You're handing him a hundred thousand dollars.

Yeah. Basically. Yeah. Yeah. You are.

Cause he could sell it right after you handed it to him.

Yeah. He, he could, he could, I don't think he would. I don't think he would do that. My thing was, was, uh, you know, if it was, it was gifted to me and my brother by my mom, you know, she claimed it 10 years ago. Um, so we have, we have, you weren't 18..

Well, no, no, but you know, if, if we sold it, it would all, it would all be, you know, capital gains, um, every bit of it. If I give it to him, if it's his, or if he holds it for two years, then he could sell it as his primary residence. and that capital gains would be gone. Yeah, that's true. You don't have capital gains on it, though.

You're, I mean, unless you got, did you get it as an inheritance or did she give it to you prior to death? She just, just, just private. She, her mom's still living, but she just, she just deeded it. She deeded it to you. Well, you are right, then.

You've analyzed that properly. then. Yeah. I wouldn't do it. If I were you, I'm trusting you.

You would? Yeah, I'd give it to him. Really? Yeah. But I'm going to put some terms on it.

Here's my terms. Okay. I want to hear this. Okay. I want him to have a plan.

Yes. For his life. Right. And for the renovation of the property. Right.

That's his sign that he, and the third thing is, he promises never to borrow any money.

Um, yep. I agree with that. I want to, I want to see a plan for renovation. I want to see a plan for your life. And, um, and, and you sign a letter that says, I promised dad, uncle, and granny, I'm never going to borrow money.

I'm going to use this as a way to become wealthy. I'm going to live here. I'm going to renovate it. I'm going to sell it for three or $400,000 in three or four years. After I fixed it up and pay no capital gains on it.

Meantime, I'm going to have a career and I'm going to go do something and be somebody.

I don't, I don't want him 38 years old. I don't want him 38 years old, still working there.

I want him to go do something with his life. Don't you? I do. I do too. But you know, uh, Hey, Bill, today's 18..

Let me ask you this. 18 year old boys just don't have that drive anymore. Yes, they do. A lot of them do. Some do.

It's not about this generation. It's about the person and the environment. My question is, do you think your son, be really honest. Do you think your son will honor that agreement that Dave laid out? I like that agreement.

Do you think your son will honor it? Yes, I do. Okay. I'd like to see him have some more hardship. I don't disagree with Dave's conditions.

I love Dave's deal, but I'd like to see an 18 year old have to, have to work hard, save for something. Giving him. that is a big leap forward. Might let him live there for a year, rent free, uh, with the promise of giving it to him. If he does a couple of these things.

I want him to do something hard. Let's, let's, let's put a little skin in the game. Yeah. But I'm, I'm all like that. None of this is anything, except I just don't want, I want this to be a blessing and not a curse.

It's a curse. If he says, since I don't have rent, I don't have to work much and I don't have to work hard. That's what I'm worried about. And I can sit here in the old wood paneling and drink beer all weekend. That's right.

And that's worse than having sent him to school to drink, to drink beer for three years. So yeah, that's what you don't want to do. So if you get something where we put him up on a track and he has an obligation that he's going to fulfill for his own good, then that's good. But maybe, maybe let him sit there a year. And at the end of that year, we will deed it to you.

If you are doing these three things, uh, you're promising not to borrow money. You have a game plan to do the renovation. Then you've already begun some of the light work on the renovation while you're there. And, uh, I want to see some movement in your career. I want you to get up off your little butt and get in gear.

And if you're going to do all that, we're going to give you a free house, buddy. If you're not, then you're going to go be somewhere else. I, like that. Might, might go for a year on it and try. I want to use it as leverage to get him moving.

That's where I'm at. I want gumption. Yeah. I need, there's an old word we don't use a lot, but I think I want to see gumption out of the kid. And I think the dad is worried about that.

He was just worried. Yeah. The downside is, is, if you, you know, it's the, uh, a miniature version of a trust fund, baby, not quite, but I mean, I agree. That's why I wouldn't give it to him yet. Yeah.

I think, I think, put some stipulation on, maybe do a delayed handoff, that kind of thing that I like, the idea of where it could take him mathematically if he plays through. And what you're saying, Bill's very true. He holds it two years. He sells it. He's going to have all that money tax free.

It's a tax free up to 250,000 gain. And it'll probably be a full gain for a single. If he's married by then, you know, it would be, uh, 500,000 that he can make on that house and have no taxes. So yeah, fix it up, live there until he's 25.. He's married and he makes some serious bank.

And by then his career has taken off because he's got a whole game plan. He's got, he's got up and got moving. and yeah, I like that, that, that kind of thing. If he's going to sit on his butt and work as little as he can work, I'm going to work. I'm going to get there late, leave early and not do much while I'm there.