You Don’t Have To Live Paycheck-to-Paycheck!

It's your show, America. We're here to answer your questions. We're gonna do it with some, some sass today, because the sassiest co-host I have when I'm, when I'm always privileged to co-host the radio show, is George Campbell. I think all words today, Ken. so thank you really.

yeah, Yeah, Yeah, you got in track the snark and the sass, and so we have a lot of fun together, and George is gonna Kind of lead off on the money questions. You've got anything related to work income.

Impact feel like you're getting passed over. What do I do? Entrepreneurial ideas, side hustle ideas, anything about that bigger shovel, which is how we refer to as a way to increase your income. I'm here to help with that as well. So let's take those calls triple, eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five and Coming up later in the show.

a fun, a new thing that we're gonna try, George and I. Never a little idea. Yeah, it's gonna be great. It's gonna have all of America talking, might get a Pulitzer Prize for lucky, and that's in the wrong category. Okay, Pulitzer is just for books, but thank you for being here.

Lincoln is up first in Orlando, Florida, Lincoln. How can we help? Hey, yeah, my question is my wife and I we're gonna be first home, First time homebuyers, but we're renting right now. We're trying to save up that down payment. I want to buy now.

She wants to wait. We have about $80,000 saved up and we've got 50,000, our 401k, and we save about a hundred thousand dollars a year net worth. So she wants to continue just to wait and just continue to build that nest egg, and I kind of want to jump into a house. So that's my question, what do we do? the great conundrum?

Mm-hmm. So you guys have no debt, the emergency fund, and there's this sort of discrepancy of. should we be investing? Hard or should we be saving for this house?

Exactly. Yeah, could you meet in the middle somewhere?

Yeah, she wants to. her middle is 50% of the house price. Then she's willing to buy, and I'm okay to do it now because I'm worried about house prices going up. So what's your total liquid down payment? you have outside of emergency fund non-retirement?

60,000. okay, and what's the home price you're looking at?

300, and you've done the math on this to see. is this going to be about 25% of our take-home pay? Yeah, I'll be about 20%. Okay, and that's on a 15 year, or 30, 15 year. Wow, way to go.

What's your household income? Yeah, After tax, around 14 to 15,000 a month. Wonderful. Okay. So if you guys bought now, you're doing it the Ramsey way and doing it the smart way, What's stopping you guys from continuing to invest once you're in this house?

Nothing. I mean we would just pay it off. Our goal is to pay off our house in four years. So that would be the goal, but she just has a fear that you know houses have unknown cost, So she doesn't want to do it. Well, the unknown costs are known.

I mean, it's maintenance repairs. get a sinking fund. You guys have the emergency fund. You're not gonna have a $60,000 surprise repair. if you do this the right way, you get a pre-perk, you know you're gonna get this thing inspected and appraised and all that.

and So I think a lot of this. there's a different fear happening here, and I don't know what's behind that. Yeah, because I felt like it was all about. she wanted a 50% down payment. Did I hear that?

Right? Yeah, which has nothing to do with the fear of unknown expenses. Yeah, her parents bought. when she's grown up. They're really house poor.

There it is. Ding, ding, ding. So she's thinking so here's what you got to do. I think, George I, I think you have to sit down with your wife Lincoln and go. Okay, let's run the numbers Based on where we are right now, with a 20% down payment, and let's look at those numbers, and I'm talking like the real numbers.

Show her in the budget, the whole nine yards. show the whole budget with this current situation. And then, I think you run the same numbers on a 50% down payment, so it's 30% more down and how that's gonna lower your price. and You put that in the budget. and then you go to what George is saying, Lincoln, with the knowns, and go Okay, well, we're gonna put up, put aside this much anyway for house repairs or we've got an emergency fund.

I think she needs to see him side-by-side, George. There's one thing for him to go. I want to do this. I think it's fine. She's got such a deep-seated fear there.

I think the only way to get her on board I'm curious to know what you think, George. Lincoln, I want you to weigh on this is to show her those two budgets side-by-side, Because it's not that big of a savings. Yeah, monthly. Am I right? Yes, I agree.

And with the, you know, here's the thing, Lincoln, I'm thinking about. with the housing market going the way it's been, what she also needs to be thinking about is 50% a year from now might be a really a bigger chunk, because that home value might go up And You can look at home prices last three, four years. It is skyrocketed, and we know that history is gonna show us. home prices will continue to go up over time, And so it's gonna be a moving target. And so we tell people the best time to buy a house is when you're financially ready, and you have checked every single box in the book today, my friend and So you have Georgia stamp of approval that you're doing this the right way.

You're gonna aggressively pay it off. How old are you two?

I'm 24 and she's 27.. Goodness. You guys are rock stars. You're crushing it. Thank you, and if you walk her through, here's the worst-case scenario.

Okay, what? what is she really worried about? if you dig into it? have her answer that question. Say what.

what are the repairs you're worried about? Okay, we're gonna get a good roof inspection. This roof is gonna last 10 years. All right. Let's check the HVAC.

All right, That's gonna be 10 grand if we had to replace the HVAC. Those kinds of things. putting facts on paper will help get rid of that sort of scarcity mentality that she's grappled with for a long time now. So I did a little research, George, you know, quickly, this quickly. I like to do it Now.

this is this is a USA Today article. It's about two years old. It's just a quick Examination here, Lincoln, so we're gonna go a lot deeper than this. But a quick search says that it might help to know that the average American spends $3,000 a year on home maintenance. There we go.

now that's again, let's, let's, let's an average. It's an average. some spend less, some more. So, Lincoln, if you're armed with that kind of information and you sit down to her with, go, Hey, look, here's the average and we can go get some more updated information. there get two or three different quotes, But if you look at that number and you're able to show her that, I think that would go a long way.

Don't you?

Yeah. Yeah, I do. I think she's fear of the unknown and I'm a little afraid to, because when we do dive into those numbers and the detail, I want to buy a smaller house and she wants to get a bigger one. So she's like look, we just save more and get a better house, and then you know, that's a whole nother conversation. Yeah, but you guys are young.

if I'm armed with it. Let me tell you what Stacey and I did. Stacey And I got a what we thought was a fabulous little house, for our first home wasn't a great house, wasn't even close to the dream house, and It was fine for what we needed at the time. It got us in there. We got some equity, We rolled that in, we moved to another state, didn't get the dream house.

there got a better house, And so you guys are young and that's that's going to take care of itself. I, I guess I just want to focus on what George and I've been telling you, which is you've got to do a better job at casting vision around how this move is Not going to result in her greatest fear coming true. That's all this is, this is less about money. This is more about understanding your wife's fears, Appreciating them and answering them. Yeah, and think about it this way.

you got a paid-for house four years from now. great, that $300,000 house is now a $400,000 house we can now upgrade, maybe even in cash, four years from now. You guys are in your early 30s. at that point You're doing great man. And look, it's about $250 a month based on the average, and put that in your budget.

show her Hey, babe, we're gonna put 250 bucks a month away for home repair on top of the emergency on top. Yeah, so that's safety. on safety. Yeah, you just have to address that. I think she's gonna be ready to go.

But hey, great young couple, George, amazing. They're in great, great shape, good stuff, All right, don't move more of your calls coming up. This is the Ramsey show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show, where we help you win in your money and your work and in your relationships. triple-8, 8, 2, 5, 5, 2, 2, 5 is the phone number to jump in. I'm Ken Coleman. George camel joins me. triple-8, 8, 2, 5, 5, 2, 2, 5.

so I had a meeting this morning, George Around. our new event called total money makeover weekend. This is May 10 and 11, and In just one weekend. what we're gonna do in this event is give you the crash course on everything we teach about money. So you're gonna hear brand new content from all of us Ramsey personalities on budgeting, Beating debt, investing and making more money.

I just went over my talk. today. We're gonna give you the formula to become rich. You found the secret It. yeah, no, no, I didn't find it.

I've studied it. does it involve work? you does. I'm less interested now. I was really hoping for a sure.

I understand. It's not a tick tock video, It's a talk, but it's gonna be great arbitrage and Airbnb or something You would think. but it does not involve any get rich quick scheme, but it will get you rich. That's all I'm gonna say. no schemes.

It's gonna be fun. Okay, we'll do Q&A. throughout the time. I also saw something that I don't want to give it away, But Jade and I are gonna be doing something fun. That was inspired by the Ramsey show.

Really? Yeah. Yeah, the American people want more of this. I thought we're gonna do our little barbershop quartet Me, Jade, and alone. I'm unaware of this, but I'm open as long as I get to do the baritone part.

Excuse me as I choke. Early bird tickets started just $99 and they're gonna go fast. We only have about 20.. What is it? 25, 26 and 2400 is what the event center holds here.

Thank you for bailing me out 2400 seats. It's gonna sell out and it's a destination deal. I mean you get to come to Nashville. I mean, come on. It's fantastic.

99 bucks is the early bird ticket price. if you want to get the best deal on tickets, So get your tickets now at Ramsey solutions comm slash events. Ramsey solutions comm slash events and, in all seriousness, Because we we have to talk about these things But it's really gonna be fun. I think it's gonna be a fun day. If you've been to a Ramsey event, you know, this is not your a seminar, which sounds boring.

This is something that you can bring your 17 year old to, or the 67 year old to, and they're gonna have a good time. I think that's true. I think that's true, and George is going to be doing balloon animals. I'll be out there twisting before the event on Friday night. It's gonna be a lot of fun.

inspired by a caller, you and I took recently one of our favorite calls. all time Kayla starts us off this segment in Minneapolis. Kayla, how can we help?

Hi, well, I kind of lost my job and I'm a mom before and I'm just trying. I lost it in July and I'm Trying to figure out how to. I'm starting to drain my accounts for mortgage and stuff. Um, what happened? I was very fine.

Uh, well, they downsized, Uh-huh, Yeah, what, what are you guys in July? Pardon, what field are you in? I? Was a CCR stay at. I've worked from home, Actually, and I made very good money at doing that and we make it down five.

I Was making about 40. What has kept you from replacing that $40,000 income between July and now? Oh, I've been trying. It's not easy. I'm kind of I'm out in the middle of nowhere.

There's like not very many jobs around where I'm at. Okay, and so that's what I'm starting, and I'm picking up all these little tiny jobs here and there, try to keep the mortgage paying, But it and I'm running out of finances. How much money are you making right now? Give us an idea of the last couple months. Just a round figure.

The last couple months I've probably made $6,000, goodness. Okay, and so I know you're in a remote area, Correct, yes, okay. And so the job you had before was a work from home, and so you've been trying to get something like that where it doesn't Matter where you live, correct? Right, but I've also been working at like, like right now I'm working at a hotel and stuff, just these little jobs just to help me keep going until I find something better. You know, here's my question and I want to ask this.

I'm trying to ask this with as much curiosity and no judgment here, Even though you're in a remote situation Is there not a Walmart, a target of some type of big-box store, something like that? That is, that is maybe 30 minutes, 45 minutes away. That is hiring.

Like an hour and a half to two hours away closest Walmart target anything, my goodness. And so you've been applying for jobs that are in your field, with your experience, that are remote, but just not getting anything Right, okay, so I want to give you a snapshot really quick, not to discourage you, but I think we got a light of fire here. the remote jobs in America right now are back to Pre-pandemic levels. I think there's this notion for a lot of people that since the pandemic, I can work remote and eventually something's gonna pop. But the actual amount of jobs that are available, that are 100% remote, have shrunk back to pre 2020, and that's as much smaller percentage.

and and so right now you're gonna have to make some really key decisions. and George, I want to bring you in here because this is yes. This is a professional and she's got to make some income.

But right now I want to keep the house. do you have any other debt I?

Have credit cards, but I've kind of had to Let them go. for now, of course, all right, so I've got to pay the bill. how much do you have in credit card debt I Have? it's probably seven thousand ten thousand. So you've just been living off of this to cover the bills, or what?

Or is this before I was going for a little bit, If it's just me, but how old are the kids? for a little bit? Eighteen, sixteen, fourteen and three. Wow. So the three?

you have no family or friends around that could help with the three-year-old, No.

What are the 16 and 18 year old doing? are they working? are they in school, yeah, they're working. they're going to school. Where are they working everything?

Where are they working? Um, My oldest is working at a subway right now. He's working part-time. my middle son's doing grocery store, Helping, carry out groceries and do it. Yeah, And then my youngest is she's got a job at.

and what are those jobs?

Like The grocery store, I think it's eight Subway, he's making eleven something and my daughter will be making like eight. What are you making per hour at the hotel? Right now I'm making 14, so I'm doing pretty well how many hours you get, but not well enough. I'm only getting part-time, maybe 16 to 20 hours maximum a week. Okay.

So what is keeping you from working another part-time job, making 14 or higher an hour? So that we're now equaling 40 hours a week?

Trying to find a place that pays well enough to pay my mortgage. Well, but at this point we can't be okay. What's well enough? What's that hourly rate that you need? Well, I need to be making about 16 at least an hour, and I have to work 90 some hours.

Make that payment 90 hours a week? No, no, no a month. Oh, I sat down and I calculated how many hours. Right, but my point is and I have to be making 16 and hours, I feel you for the kids, but I took this 14. I'm just making are filling in at the hotel, right?

But here's the deal, Kayla, you don't have many options right now. You need to be working two or three jobs. This 90 hours a month is the wrong way of look at it, as you got the wrong math. I'm just trying to be honest with you. called for help and I'm gonna talk to you, like you were my sister.

Okay, and I'll be like sis. This is pretty simple working two part-time jobs, three part-time jobs. Believe me. They're there in Minneapolis. I mean, I know you're way out in the sticks, but they're there and we're doing two and three jobs, because 40 hours a week Gives me on a four-week month.

that gives me 160 hours and you're running math on 90 at 16 an hour And I'm going forget the 90 hours at 16. My math is 40 hours a week at 14, and one job 15 12 at the other. your answer to saving your house, Kayla, is Working and working hard. where there's a will, there's a way, and I don't want you to lose your house. You shouldn't have to.

let's go. Let's get to work. Let's make some money. They are out there. do whatever it takes, and if you got to sell the house and move somewhere With all the kids to a better job economy, do that.

This is your life. Act like. it depends on it, because, I'm telling you, it does. you need to get serious and fast. This is the Ramsey show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. We are here for you this hour, taking your money, questions, your work-related questions about that bigger shovel. I'm here to help on that.

Triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five is the number. triple, eight, eight, two, five, five, Two, two, five is the number. let's go to DJ and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. DJ. How can we help?

Howdy, so I'm kind of having some trouble wrapping my head around an Issue where I'd like to start my own small equipment rental company. but I I have a natural kind of aversion to debt, but I think that the amount that I'm going to need to start this company at the lowest level Is going to be enough to where it might be worth getting into some Level of low level, that I found a zero percent loan for the particular piece of equipment. I want to buy. So I'm not sure which is why to go from here. How much tell us about the equipment?

how much? All right. So to give you need the backstory, because it's a good backstory. the company that I work for is Extremely motivated to help their employees out. They like to have their employees be able to have the equipment they sell.

So they sell their equipment at cost plus, like a good small transaction fee, and.

So on on the new equipment. the amount is $30,000 for the piece of equipment that I want, plus the attachments that I would need in order to make it marketable. Oh, you get the attachments. with the 30,000, You get the attachments, you get the equipment and you get the warranty. Oh, and I'm also then allowed to be my own repairman.

All right. So what kind of a machine are we talking about? What is it do about a 3,500 pound mini excavator with zero to elsewhere, a Mini excavator, and what? what are you? are you going to rent that to people?

Did I understand that right? Yes, sir. So how much are you?

I'm gonna try to rent it at 350.. That's kind of what I've found has been a comparable rate 350 an hour, 350 a day, 350 a day. Hmm, Seems like a pretty good deal. Of course. I don't know much about mini excavators And they usually rent somewhere in that 350 to 400 range.

Who are the people that are renting mini excavators? So my goal is to go for kind of the homeowner demographic who says I don't want to pay someone $4,000 to do this. I'm gonna rent this machine for $400 and do it myself. That's kind of my. my demographic is I don't have enough money to be wasting it, But I have enough money to rent something.

Okay, and couple more questions here.

You started off the call sounding like you were going to have multiple machines, and now we're just talking about this one. So is this what you're going to start with? So this is what I'm starting with. over time, I'm gonna buy in cash, but just to get that beginning going, I'm thinking alone would be how much cash do you have saved up? So right now, me and my wife are trying to buy a home And we're also having a child, so it's kind of...

This sounds like the worst time to do this. But but I answer the question really quick. How much money do you have saved up? so Sorry, I'm adding. I'd say about $7,500.

Okay, how many tons? you said this thing is for the mini excavator? How many tons or how much do you weigh? Well, I'm looking on Facebook marketplace, and I'm seeing a whole bunch of mini excavators running anywhere used from $5,000 to $13,000 to $15,000.. Uh-oh, So why don't we just go buy a used one in cash to see if this business even has any merit to it?

So I've called a couple local business owners over in the area that I used to work And they said that they tried to buy the used excavators. But what ended up happening was they would go through and have to Put new bushings in and put new pins in, and then the amount of work that it would take to make it marketable Actually got them up above the cost. if I'm the homeowner, I don't care if it's the shiniest, newest one. I want someone's getting the job done. Oh, I, I get that, but the cost of making it That would make it run well enough that people would be able to rent it.

So we've hit a wall. we've hit a wall, DJ. you called us you want to buy a house, you're having a kid. You're gonna about to go 30 grand into debt in the middle of all of this to hope that you ROI. It's gonna take 86 rentals at 350, you know, just to break even.

this is crazy risk, DJ.

But I don't know why I Really wanted to push towards buying the used. I just have a lot of fear about that because I've seen what those repair bills get. I know you're missing a point. like DJ, you're missing the point. You called us and you asked you wanted to know our opinion.

I would not leave this loan. This is, I would not raise business. This is risky. You should wait. have the child give any other debt.

I've actually paid off the remainder of my debt. great. You have an emergency fund. I do. is that the 7500?

or you have stuff? outside of that? I Have a cash emergency fund set aside as well, But I tend to forget that that exists, because I won't touch it unless I need to. I would not start a business at this Stage, even if you had the cash, I'd put the cash towards buying a home, wouldn't you, George? Well, and right now we got this baby on the way.

we got to make sure that mom and baby get home safe and there's no medical bills to pay, and this is a lot of Responsibility, and so I'm waiting until we got the baby. We're in the new house. Then we can start this business with cash, with cash. Start slow. I would not, even though you're getting a discount, and it's this great opportunity.

This is how most stupid decisions start. I don't think it's a great opportunity. I'm not even trying to dash your dreams, DJ, But this is really why the reason I walk through. who's the customer? Rosa?

This is highly speculative, and George ran the numbers. You got to rent it. How many times? 86? 86 for their rentals.

You've got to rent it just to break even man. That is gonna become a weight on your shoulders. Yeah, the only reason that I'm more pushed towards it is because I've talked to four people so far to do this, And they average about ten rentals a month in the slow season. So it's not, you know, but I understand, I appreciate. I would much prefer buy it with the cash.

well then, do that. You are. you are relying on four people? Who are giving you a story. that's work for them?

There's no guarantees that's gonna work for you, and they may be okay with debt. You're not. why would you be okay now? But not later. That's what's weird to me.

You're like, well, in the future. I want a cash flow, but right now. Haha, let's go borrow money, and I just don't understand where future DJ is Getting tripped up by present DJ. I Just have such a fear of standing still that I I'll never do it if I don't. what?

if you're here, I mean that fear of? I do know. Yeah, but let me give you what you should be afraid of. You're. you should be afraid of going backwards.

This plan. this plan has a healthy dose of going backwards involved. I'd rather stand still and go backwards. What about you, DJ? I'd say you're probably correct about that.

Not, probably. I'm rarely right. I've been married 25 years. I have three teenagers. I'm wrong all the time.

At least that's what everybody says, George, but in this one rare situation, Standing still or staying still or holding serve you, pick the metaphor George is a lot better. Why? well, there's a lot of risk here. My brain just went to insurance and liability and starting the small business. what happens when this person Destroys your equipment?

gets hurt on your equipment because you didn't maintain it properly. Yeah, and that part worries me alone. on top of the fact you're trying to buy a house and have a baby, We're trying to do too much at once. And so for those reasons, I'm out. if this was Shark Tank, I would opt out.

you really handle that. Well, I mean, when you started running through all that, I have a tad bit of anxiety for our friend. You need some Tums just thinking about it. Yeah, well, you know what. usually I have a little.

He's got some on the desk. No, there used to be a thing. I was gonna pop a Tums right there. There's something about when there's big changes happening in life. It makes us want to go do something a little crazy Buying a house, having a kid and you got announced I got to start the business.

if I don't do it now, I'm never gonna start it. George. I want to bring back what I think is a really interesting wrestling match with millions of Americans. I want you to weigh in on. I Get what he's saying?

He's young. He wants to get ahead. He wants to own something, He wants to be his own man, work for himself. I get that urge and he's going. I'm afraid of standing still and He's forgetting about the risk of going backwards.

Mm-hmm. What do you think about that wrestling match? Well, it's a real wrestling. Yeah, sometimes you're standing still because there's a cliff right in front of you, It's, there's a precipice there and it's your body saying listen, man, You're not safe right now, And so I'm gonna pause on this whole deal. and we love small business.

There's a right way to do it in a right time to do it, and both of those boxes are not checked for me. Hopefully you'll listen to us. We're on your side, By the way, George Campbell, not with just great financial advice, but dropping the word of the day. Use the word precipice sometime in the next week with your colleagues and watch him. watch him.

Look at, you personal brand goes up just a notch. I make $10 words. look cheap. great word, George. This is the Ramsey show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Cullen. George Campbell joins me. We're taking your phone calls about your money, your work.

Triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five. That's triple, eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five. Now, George, you were telling me during the break. You got a little something to show us. here You've, you've pulled something that America needs to see in here.

I live on social media, as you know, And I get it. I get a lot of DMS from people sending me different videos and clips and reels and tick tocks, And if one gets popped up enough, I go. we got to put this on the show. Okay, and this is one that genuinely made me Belly laugh, but I don't know that I've seen you belly laugh. I don't have much of a belly, It's the problem.

This is a fair point. so this is comedian Neil Brennan, known for his work. You know, co-producing, co-writing, the Chappelle show. sure, fantastic comedian, and he's got this clip about student loans. I thought we have to have Ken react to this.

I've never seen it fall on the Ramsey show. okay, so let's play that role.

Early on these. student loans are basically small business loans and the business is you, And you're maybe not such a great business.

Look, if they call them small business loans, no 18 year old kid would ever get the loans. It's a bad idea for a business if you had to go to the bank, to the small business desk, and ask me like, yeah, I'm gonna need $150,000 to be like all right. What's your business idea? all right? Here's the idea.

for the next four years I'm gonna get blackout drunk.

But also I'm gonna get a degree in.

Sociology yes,

Just know that I did have a way to pay you guys back. It's gonna give you $80 a month for the next 240 years.

Brilliant. you know he's at listen. There's not one thing in that clip. That's. that's incorrect.

No lies were told. He's absolutely right. it is the biggest cash grab in the history of this country. And what I mean by that is the federal government should never be in the banking business, And you cannot call it anything other than that. if you look at Fannie Mae and Sally Mae, and they are giving low interest loans to the American people and they're guaranteeing them and Do you know who gets paid right away?

The College University. yes, that tuition money goes right to their bank instantly, instantaneous. It is a cash transaction. the higher education business is going to the bank on the backs of the American people and the federal government is Financing all of it and not only financing it, Guaranteeing it if they default. because if they default, the taxpayers were on the.

we're on the on the hook for that. There's no risk to they don't go back to the school and say dear, fill in the school. we'd like you to send 25,000 of that back because Junior didn't finish. and what's worse is that this has caused colleges to raise tuition to Unprecedented levels because they can, because we'll just take out more loans, because we are that stupid. it is ridiculous.

Why the way the sociology degree? so let's look at the headlines. You know I was in New York last week, did a town hall for Fox business, and the topic was education in America, and The segment that I was on Was about college education. is the ROI there? and the answer to that question is increasingly no.

This is not my opinion. for those of you. They're getting really upset at me right now. Oh Kim, the liberal arts are just good. They teach our kids how to think.

let me tell you something. companies by the score are.

Removing the college degree requirement, because the American companies are at a point where they're going. It doesn't matter anymore, because they come out of college, and I got a trainer for the job anyway, so the status symbol That has been attached to the diploma, the degree. George, It's not my opinion. This is a fact. it is Lessening and lessening, and lessening.

it is the good news for the American people is leveling, leveling the playing field. And so I just want to practically say to our audience We have a lot of new people coming in all the time. if I could give everybody listening, watching right now, Two simple questions to determine whether or not you need To get a degree, thus potentially get a loan. Ask these two questions is the degree the only way to get qualified to do what I want to do? Second question is the degree the best way to get qualified to do what I want to do?

if the answer is no, I've got great news America. there's a trade school, a Certificate program, an associate's degree that you can get for pennies on the dollar and Find your path forward, George. this is the message that the Ramsey show has got to Beat over and over and over again, because we've been sold a lie that the degree is a guarantee For success, and it's garbage. It's absolute. on top of that, the pressure we're putting on 16, 17 year olds to go.

hey, sign the dotted line For something you don't actually fully understand, which is six figures in student loan debt. Yeah, to hope this is the thing you want to do for the rest of your life, because the ROI is counting on that. That's exactly for your degree is gonna pay the dividends and give you a better job and better salary than you would have gotten Without it. That's all of the assumptions, and the comedian makes a very good point by going Would you give, would you bet on an 18 year old to that degree if you were a bank? and the answer is no.

But you know why? Banks and it's and and people are given loans Because they're guaranteed by the federal government, so there's no risk. the government's handing out money like it's candy. and anyway, so Great clip, George. He's absolutely right.

by the way. I want to make a mention really quick the get clear assessment, Which is a very popular tool that we sell at Ramsey solutions comm. I created it for this very issue. Parents, listen to me. if you've got a kid That's graduating high school.

get the student version right now at Ramsey solutions calm, And it will, in 15 minutes, give them a snapshot of how they're wired, in other words, what they do best. That's their talent, what they enjoy doing. that's passion that could be turned into work They enjoy down the road. and then what motivates them? what results motivate them?

you? you can, as an 18 year old, have a general idea of direction. Use the get clear tool. if you're brand, if you're an adult, you're going. I need that.

Ramsey solutions calm. click on the get clear assessment. You can see both the adult version and the student version, because this will help people, George Not make a costly decision that they end up paying for for decades. Oh, it's holding them back, but I covered. the stats now are astounding.

How many people are delaying their dreams of home ownership and marriage and having kids and working a job? They want to because of their student loan debt and the stats on how many people actually finish. I mean you think about it. You're still gonna carry that debt even if you don't graduate. So that's something on top of the fact you better Hope you get a degree that has market.

what is the average length? is there is do you have a payoff debt? Yeah, 20 years, so that's the average to pay off student loan debt. That's absurd. Do you know what?

the average payment is? $400 around there? so, folks, that's unbelievable of. Average payment in America is $400 a month and and the average length of time is 20 years. Do you think the ROI is there, America?

Well, they've dangled forgiveness, Ken, so maybe that'll work out. No, We've, by the way, We got hammered for saying that that wasn't gonna happen and and and we knew it was gonna be challenged at Supreme Court level. Supreme Court ruled on it as we said they would, and it's gonna keep being thrown out there as a football. But again, don't buy it. I'm not catching that football.

You couldn't catch a football anyway, I'd have to hand it to you and even then you might fall. We call a soft toss again, but in the biz, but let me tell you what. you don't fumble the facts. You don't fumble the facts. I just put you on the spot.

You were there, my friend. That's pretty extraordinary. I don't want to skip over that. Here's the question. Do you want to have a $400 payment?

For 20 years. No, That's a question we all get. so, for instance, What if the what if that? what if the federal government when somebody applied for the student loan because you could do it so easy now online, What if there was this big flashing message says hey, warning, kind of like we do on cigarettes. Oh, You could have a $400 payment on average for the next 20 years.

Do you want to sign up for this loan? What do you think the response would be? and I know I'm being facetious, But people would take a long, hard pause and probably go. Alright, I'm gonna back away right now. But instead they make these loans so easy to get from the palm of your hand.

You can go, sign up for six figures, but nobody talks about how long the average payment, The payoff date, is. that's extraordinary. We promise the kids. You're gonna have a great life if you work hard in school. That's what we tell them.

So we go. Hey, you get the loan. Success is guaranteed, youngster. And so what do they do? Right, and then they go, I don't, I don't.

you say well, What about trade school? I don't want to get dirty, I don't want to wear a t-shirt, and it'd be all greasy at the end of the day. and you got yet plumbers making $300,000 a year, Electricians making $300,000 a year, starting businesses the American dream. I mean working for themselves, barbers. It doesn't have to be dirty jobs with Mike Rowe.

Yeah, no degree required. Remember those three words. That's the now and it's the next, and you're gonna see that. continue to increase in the job market in America. No degree required.

wake up America. great stuff, George. Don't fumble the facts. Don't fumble the facts. There it is, folks, There it is.

He picked it up again. That's the touchdown. I'll explain that on. that's an interception. Actually.

Thank you for being with us. This is the Ramsey show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey. solutions. This is the Ramsey show. it's where we help you win in your life, Specifically with your money, in your work and in your relationships. triple, eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five is the phone number?

Triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five. I'm Ken Coleman. George camel joins me and we are here for you. George, Take those money questions and I'll weigh in and then I'm here on any of those bigger shovel, more income Questions. you want more income, let's talk about, because that helps you get through the baby steps faster, And I'm here to help with that.

George weighs in as well. Let's start this hour off with Allie in Tucson, Arizona. Allie, How can we help? Hi, can you hear me? I can loud and clear, George.

Can you hear? Absolutely. There you go, Perfect. So my question is about Investing in retirement versus paying off the house quicker.

We're a single single income family. my husband has his preference and preferences set to where 15% comes out of his paycheck every month or every week To his 401k. for some reason that has not applied to the bonuses you get throughout the year, And we're just now taking a look at that and wondering if we should make our own individual contribution to the 401k for the bonus amount or If that money would be better used to paying off the house. Uh-huh. Okay.

What's his income?

His base rate is about 95,000.. Okay, the bonus last year ended up being a total about 15,000.. 15,000 in bonuses? Yes. Okay, so about 110 in total compensation, Yes, has he checked with the HR team?

I'm not sure if he has would have to double check on that. That would be. my first step is just to talk with them and say hey, I know these bonuses are happening, I don't see the 15% coming out. Is there a way to Apply that to the 401k, even if it's retroactively, and get some intel on that on their side? Okay, and if you can't apply it, then go for it.

That's 15% of your household income and any extra money beyond that 15% I would apply toward the principal on the mortgage, and if you can't apply it for some reason, you can't do it in the 401k, you could do it in a Roth IRA and Contribute to that. Okay, the max this year is 7,000.

Okay, you'd recommend treating that bonus as just regular income and do the 15% rather than Throwing it at the house. Yeah, because this bonus is part of his compensation plan, And so I'm just going to consider it just like the IRS would. this is your gross household income, And so I'm going to do 15% of the gross household income into retirement. Got it. Okay.

How much extra money do you guys have to throw at the mortgage every month?

It varies. The last few months it's been around 2,000 awesome, on top of your normal payment. Um, yes, there's a. there's a kink there. it is a rental property.

Oh, Here, but you guys aren't living in. I Know if they were not, are you renting or do you have your own primary residence with a mortgage?

We are renting. we have extremely Subsidized rent through my husband's works. Okay, so you're renting very cheaply and you hung on to your property as a rental.

Yeah, we actually purchased it last year, oh well, you were renting. Yes, okay. Yeah, I think it's a great goal to have a paid-off rental. that thing will cash flow like nothing, nothing else. Yeah, we're intending for it to, whenever we do move to a more permanent situation, to sell it and use the equity towards our personal.

Residence. but great, we Don't have anywhere here that we want to live and buy a house. We went for a house rental. That's wise. you guys have done it really well.

off to a great start. All right, let's go to Raleigh, North Carolina. Julian is there Julian? How can we help?

Hello, we hear you loud and clear what's going on.

So I just. I just graduated recently in May, and I Ended school with about two hundred and seventy thousand dollars in student debt and I'd make 52 Annually pre-tax and.

I think I'm just looking for direction. What were your? what was your degree in? computer science?

Wow, what happened that caused you to go 270 grand in debt for the computer science degree?

It took a fifth year and the school has. it's a public school, but it's basically private school tuition. Yeah, I didn't give you. Is it out of state or anything? It is.

Mm-hmm. So what are you looking for? if we could snap our fingers today? What would we want as far as work?

As work. yeah, your job.

Let me ask it a different way, what are you looking? What's the path up the ladder for you making more money? What's that look like? What are you aiming for? I'm aiming to live comfortably and Pay off these loans, or at least make it so.

my co-signers, you know, who's the co-signers future? My uncle and my father. Oh yikes. No, but let me let me re-ask one more time, Julian What are we looking to do? Are you wanting to go into coding?

Do you want to go into cyber security? What is that computer science degree that you overpaid for? What are you looking to do? I know you're looking to be comfortable. But what is the professional path up the ladder?

name it?

Software engineering. Okay. So what's keeping you from moving up right now?

Well, I'm afraid of the impact on my co-signers and one of the solutions I thought was, if you join the military and do ten years, then you could have them forgiven or something like that. Yeah, but this, let's say, that's not your co-signers aside. forget the co-signers. Well, you need to be making six figures in software engineering ASAP. Well, you need to pay off the path.

I want to be realistic. You should be in that 65-70 range pretty realistically. Have you done your homework on this?

I guess not. What are you doing now for 52??

I work remote for a small company in Canada doing cyber security during the week. My friend, I don't think your sights are high enough And I'm not. by the way, I'm not getting on you. I'm trying to push a little bit, Julian, like your path to software engineer. Let's go, Let's, let's, let's, let's start working.

in Raleigh, North Carolina, is the research triangle. How is it that you aren't on a pathway to making 70, 75? Six figures in one or two years? as a software engineer. I think it's just effort.

Am I right or am I wrong?

I Didn't know it was possible to do that soon. I guess it's absolutely possible. You may have to pay your dues for 12 months, which you're already starting. I mean good, at least at least you're in the technology field. But you need a ladder, a path forward and and and you don't need to go to the military, because all I heard was a guy Who goes well, I'll go ten years and pay my penance and then, hopefully, they wipe my loans away.

No, Go, make really good money and Do what's right and pay off the loan and take care of your uncle and your father, who bet on you was a bad bet. They didn't need to do that, but you did it. Hang on the line. Let's give him a copy of my number one bestseller, the proximity principle. You need to get around software designers in Raleigh.

It's your second job coffee, lunch. find out what opportunities are there, how they got, where they are. Get after it. young man, Opportunities come when I'm around the right people in the right places, and that's what you need. This is the Ramsey show.

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Don't be confused and let someone sell you a plan that sounds better than it really is. Look, term life is the only way to Go. rates are back to all-time lows and the process to apply is easier than ever, with many companies No longer requiring exams. You need to protect your family and use your money for as much smarter things than investing in a ripoff cash value insurance Policy. go to Xander comm or call 800, three, five, six, forty, two, eighty, two and just compare pricing.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show, where we help you win with your money, in your work and in your relationships. triple, eight, eight, two, Five, five, two, two, five is the number. triple, eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five. I'm Ken Coleman. my colleague and good friend.

George camel joins me this hour and George, I gotta tell you What's clumping your cat litter, Ken?

What Clumping my what your cat litter? that's an old saying. What's clumping my cat litter? that's an old saying among the Gen Xers. that way you'd appreciate that would irritate me.

And I'm irritated. Well, what's irritating? Oh, I gotta tell you. I gotta tell you it means Ken's irritated. I gotta tell you, I Think we need more haggle.

We don't have enough haggle in today's economy. We've lost our haggle. we've lost the haggle, and this is not a. this is not a.

Minute issue. This is a massive issue. Let me explain. Do you know what? I mean when I say haggle 200%?

I mean, I love that. I like to bargain. It is a. it's a kind of slang word for bargain. And have you ever traveled internationally, George?

Yes. Have you been to one of these markets where they're selling goods? There's a lot of haggling going on. I mean, it's it's a normal deal. you show up, you smile and you haggle, and no one's upset about it.

Everybody gets the haggle. You're haggling. I'm haggling. We're all haggling. I think we need more haggling.

United States, and we don't have the haggle in one major area. and it's got me a little upset. I am in the middle of now research to buy my second child a Car, he's turning 16 in April and here I am and I'm reminded of the experience that I had last year Trying to haggle. So let me let me give you the, the kind of the. the bad guy in this deal It's CarMax.

Mmm. I look under the bus. I like that. I am. I'll tell you why.

They started this nonsense 30 years ago. Did you know this? they've been marketing the. hey, we're the no haggle guys. They were the first ones to come out in the car industry that I know of and they made it a national campaign slogan.

It was you come to CarMax and we got the no haggle pricing, and I remember first time here to go. no, How does that work? I remember when they came out with it, George? I went to myself, I'd like to haggle still, and I remember going to CarMax going. is this really a thing?

and boy, Oh boy, is it. they weren't interested in haggling. now This is the price. the price is the price and the notion was, and they did a good job and they actually won with the Messaging. they said look, if you come to CarMax, you can buy your car.

You don't have to worry about the slimy car salesman Trying to work you over on price. But I can tell you that it's actually hurt us. it's gone against us. it was brilliant strategy, you know, why? Why now every car dealer in the world is no haggle.

They just jumped on the no haggle train. and I don't like it, because when I buy a car, as I did for my oldest son About a year and a half ago. I bought it from private sellers and there's haggling You get the haggle back. when you get private, you get the haggle back and I think now I'm gonna go a step further, George. And you're mr.

Save people money. So I'm bringing you into this, and that's why I gotta tell you, I think we need haggling in every walk of life. I'd like to haggle over a cup of coffee. Tell you what, I like to go to a coffee shop and go. listen, I got my buddy, George with her gonna have a cup of coffee.

probably gonna have more than a cup. We're probably in for multiple cups. Tell you what, I'd like to buy one. get one free on this first one, because I'm probably, Wow, Why can I haggle over coffee, George? Well, I think number one, America has a lot of.

we have a lot of shame when it comes to social, I think we have fear. well, Think about the tipping screens. is another version of the. the net. You know the shame based culture, which is.

I feel like I got a tip. Otherwise, I'm gonna get shamed. and the same thing with haggling. It's a very awkward, shameful thing, Whereas in other cultures, it's encouraged. It's normal.

Can you imagine going to the mall with Whitney and you're getting a little something? you walk into the purse store? Tell you what the ticket price on this purse is, uh, is a hundred and fifty dollars. I'll tell you what would you take, 120?. Every time my wife, Stacy and you know, Stacy.

Well, she sells he loves a haggle. Well, people haggle with her. I always hear on the phone. She goes. Okay, you know, you go to a yard sale.

You know what everybody's doing haggling, Facebook marketplace, Haggle. people love to haggle. the haggle is in a lot of places. I think it's time in 2024, George, and I'm gonna make the proclamation today. What say you, America?

I think we need haggle everywhere. I think we need to be haggling cars, Haggling a steak. I want to go and go. you got the tomahawk right there. You're charging $65.

I tell you what, I'll give you a 50 for it. That's a good deal on a tomahawk. Yeah, I'm making it up. I don't know what I'd like, for it was 128 ounces. That's too much meat.

I can't even look at that section. Yeah, I'm with you, though. What do you think, George? I think, why can we haggle in certain areas? We can't haggle in others.

Well, some are, you know, they're standard businesses. I can't go to the grocery store necessarily and just go. Hey, I think 250 is a lot for the head of lettuce. Would you do to the 14 year old work in the register can't help me with that? And so I try to choose my battles and there's places you can and can't haggle.

That's just how it is. I don't make the rules. I Think we, the people, could make the rules, and I'm suggesting that we all start haggling a little bit more. try the haggle. You never know what you'll get.

What if we take that reverse shame, and we go and it's the poor 14 year old kid at the coffee shop? He doesn't know. it's not my problem. Listen, I'd like to get two cups of coffee for one. What do you think, pal?

And he's nerdy, pal. He's not gonna go for that. He's scared of getting fired over this. I think he's scared telling me the customer. No, I think we need a little more haggle.

if we can do it in the marketplace, George, I think we should be able to haggle with them all. getting my kid a pair of shoes. Hey, here's the deal. you're charging 119 for that. I was across the street at JD's.

That's a legitimate version of haggling, which is Matching that, but that's a haggle. That's haggling. So at Foot Locker, it's $20 cheaper. You give me the Foot Locker price? I think they do it, and I always look for the price matching policy.

I'll tell you and I'll always take advantage of that. by the way, I'm gonna, by the way, James, in America, I'm gonna put my money where my mouth is All right. I Love to frequent J crew and I have decided as of today. You're gonna have a moment. I'm gonna go haggle for some clothes.

What's the worst, they can say? They look at me like I'm an alien. That's not the first time that's ever happened. There's a version that's classy of this. you could go.

Hey, I'm not gonna ask for that shirt for half-off. But could you say hey, you guys got any discounts, you're running? Yeah, promo code apply. See, you're being. that's a classic millennial cop.

That's not haggling. You're asking if they have coupons. That's getting a discount. the same end result applies I want to say yes, and I want to ask for the coupon, and then I want to haggle. I want to haggle some more.

I'm gonna haggle with you, just to get you to stop talking about the haggle. Can I haggle on your books? There we go. Now. See, this is a very good point.

I respect the haggle. The answer is yes, Just like he's got a family to feed. when somebody buys something from Stacy that we sell Because we do this a lot in our neighborhood people buy and selling all the time They're always nobody buys the thing you sell at full price. Nobody does. and I'm just, I'm having a little fun with this, But I'm a little irritated because I think the car industry, I think we, the people, need to stand up and start haggling.

It's gonna take some courage. So I have three tips. You're ready, James. I wanted to give some practical takeaways. So here are the three how-to's of haggling.

Are we ready? Well, I should have given this to the guys to put on the screen, because this is gold, George, All right, three how-to's to haggling. you can add or edit. You ready? Number one be strong, Fair.

you got to go into this knowing that it's not normal. Maybe they're gonna look at you like it's weird. Maybe they're gonna shut you down and reject you. You got to be strong. Number one.

Number two, you got to know your stuff. Do your homework. you got to do your homework, you know. Look footlocker across the street. or, though, you got to know your stuff, I don't know more about that product than they do.

you got to know. and then number three you gotta have walkaway power 100% and you actually have to walk away. you hear you. Here's what I'm gonna do. I Tell you what, I'll buy the shirt if you give it to me for this.

I'll tell you what I'm gonna go across the street. Here's my. here's my number. text me if you want me to buy that shirt. That's it.

and you leave the three how-to's of haggling. I think those are strong and I've done all three of those. has it worked? Yeah, cuz, they can tell if you're gonna buckle, you know, this is a yeah, What's that? the guy wrote, Chris Voss?

Is that his name? Yeah, Yeah, the negotiation never split the difference. split the difference, and Rachel Cruz and I did a whole episode on smart money happy hour About negotiation, and I pretended like I was wrecked the boat. salesman. I.

it's one of my favorite episodes. My point is that she buckled, but that's the haggle. you. you can't haggle Successfully if you don't use those three things. be strong.

Gotta be okay with rejection. number two know your stuff. and number three walk away. make them think about it. I love that now.

They may never call you back and get it, but that's fine. a for effort. So there you go Now. that's my opinion. What do you say?

America, speak up in the comments? Let us know. However, you're watching. wherever you're watching. You can email a show.

I Don't care. I want to know. do you want more haggle in the American economy? I say yes, you've got my vote. I think we need more haggle, especially in cars.

I'm tired of paying sticker price on cars. Don't do it. I don't pay full price for pizza. You know what? We need.

you need to follow me on your YouTube channel and I'll haggle in disguise.

We'll see if it works. All right. more of your calls coming up. haggle more America.

Welcome back America. you're joining the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman and George Campbell joins me. triple, eight, eight to five, Five, two to five. Hey, the money and marriage getaway is back.

I thought I'd bring this up since tomorrow's a big day. George. You got your roses. You got I. you know, You got the candy.

You got the chocolate. What is what is Whitney's? We have opted out of the consumerism holidays this year. Just opt it out. Tell me more about this.

I think America wants to know about this. We're getting pizza at home. No, I got some pizzas. Yeah, now, Stacy and I have opted out of the Valentine's Day mania for probably a decade. Because you just, I'm tired of fighting for a table.

I tell her I love her every day out on Valentine's Day before, two days before, maybe three days after, kind of random, I may stop by and get a get a little ribeye, make it at home And put it on top. the pizza on top of the pizza Underrated. move. now, are the America wants to know more from our money-saving. I've never tried row.

I'll have to report other what other Holidays, consumerism holidays. Are you guys opting out? almost all of them? I mean outside of Thanksgiving dinner with family and Christmas dinner with family. We don't really do a whole lot of Celebrating now.

when you say opting out no card for Whitney, not really card people, Really, yeah, yeah, we got to find a way for you to send a accidental on purpose text to Stacy to tell her that To, like, you know, drop it to her, But you, soon as it goes to, you, go. Oh, sorry. That was meant for Ken and it was you going? Yeah, we don't. we don't do the Valentine cards anymore.

Wow, something like you know what I mean? She's a big card person, Mmm, well, I think it depends on the people, you know, if that's her, her love language. Yeah, but what do you do when you're when an affirmation, when your wife's a big card person and you're not, you do it? Anyways, that's her lovely. It's what I do.

So makes you a great husband, But my wife is more into, like, you know, treats and food and experience versus the flowers and the cards and all that. So I think you should make the pizza tomorrow as a romantic gesture. I think what's more romantic is getting a good pizza versus me attempting a gluten-free pizza at home. I Digress. I was supposed to be talking about our money and marriage event and I got excited about Valentine's Day.

James, Are you a card person? Are you guys a card couple or you get each other Valentine's Day cards? Yeah, but we're usually DIY kind of cards. Mmm, I see you with a pair of little scissors and the construction paper. Well, it's more.

it's more about the kids at this stage, You know, so we're. it's kind of a. you know, it's all about the kids, dad of the year right there. This is something I want to know in the comment section. Are you people card givers at Valentine's Day or do you just skip all the nonsense and do the?

I'll give you a life hack. I refuse to spend more than 99 cents on a card. Can you got it? Can you get a card? right today's inflationary?

They only sell 99 cent cards at Trader Joe's. That's where I go to get my card. I like Trader Joe's. Hey, our money and marriage getaway is back. It's this fall.

October 24, 25 and 26 joined. Dr John DeLoney and Rachel Cruz for a weekend away in Nashville. two and a half days of teaching on Communication, intimacy and money. a lot of Q&A, a lot of fun, and you and your spouse can get away and build your marriage. Platinum tickets already sold out.

There's a few VIP tickets left, which includes meet-and-greets with John and Rachel. Visit ramsaysolutions.com right now to get your ticket. They start at $799. that's a little bit above George's budget. visit ramsaysolutions.com Events, the money and marriage getaway and I I heard it was great last year or this year.

I should say it was amazing. I could get to speak. I did a great budgeting talk. Did you have this previous one? I hope I get invited back.

We'll see. but it is $799 per couple, Which is a steal for a weekend marriage retreat. right, and we make sure it's worth your while the way. that's a good time. I feel I should be responsible and point out that this is a no haggle ticket price and aggle.

Unfortunately, the Ramsey solution is not on board with my more haggle.

Clarion call today to help the American people. I'm a patriot. I feel like that's patriot. Is this constitutional? Yeah, our speech, haggling, is free speech.

Don't get me started. Steve is on the line in the Motor City, Detroit, Michigan Home of the Lions, who almost won the NFC Championship. Steve. How can we help? Hey, yes, I I'm recently running into some medical issues that has my family dipping into our emergency fund.

I'm just kind of wondering how much do we bleed down that emergency fund? Before taking the next step? and what would the next step be as far as selling the house, selling the cars? Dipping into retirement and what the the process would be like. Can you tell us a little bit more about your Medical condition and, and is that going to affect you working going forward?

So yes, and no, so it's actually been about two years. There's really want to go down the rabbit hole. It's it's long COVID or post COVID. so at this point, it's Basically leaving me bed-bound for for most of the days And there's no cure or no timeline of recovery. at this point, I've seen people recover after two years, after three years, things like that.

Are you married? I am married. Yes, is your spouse working? She is working. Yes.

What's the income of your spouse?

She brings home after taxes and everything like that later on 22, 2300 a month, and That's the only thing keeping the family afloat right now, Correct? so did you leave your job or you fired or what happened there? No, so I went on short-term disability because of the Illness and everything like that, and that ran us through basically up until December of 23, and now The disability on that has ran out. we're currently in the process for filing for Social Security disability, but Reading everything. It sounds like it's going to be an uphill battle.

How old are you two? I'm 35.. She's 31, And how many kids We've got one two-year-old. Okay, how much of a shortfall are you having based on her income? How much more money would you need to kind of not be living, you know, way below?

I Mean Using a budget. we've probably five hundred six hundred months, and that would be very, very minimum. That would be breaking a little bit more comfortable, paycheck to paycheck, but but but you would be making it, Yeah, without having to Spend that extra from our emergency fund, that kind of stuff. Well, that's not, I don't. I don't want to in any way Minimize your situation, but five to six hundred dollars a month.

That's extremely doable. for your wife right now. She may be working a lot longer, But you can't. and if she's working on a part-time job or she gets a better full-time job, We can get that five hundred to six hundred a month. Yeah, and I don't want to make excuses, it's just unfortunately.

it's to the point where we have Childcare, kind of during the day and then, when she comes home. She's a giant help with our child who among, I'm unfortunate, this I'm not Fully able to take care of. are you able to do any work from your a computer at home? Not consistently. no, like a phone call like this could wipe me out.

I mean even a digital.

Job where you're not having to talk all day, No screen time, things like that. It'd be very minimal. Maybe maybe an hour a day. Yeah. What are you able to do all day?

Very little. so it's called post-exertional malaise. But basically, the more that I do, the worst that I feel. so I could get up and I could do something all day long. Not a lot, but I can be up and moving around.

But that is laying in bed for the next week at a time. Do you have friends? It's about a wild ride. It's very bizarre. I'm just staying on the money thing right now because this is about brainstorming, going How do we get more income in?

and I understand the childcare issue, because she needs to help when she gets home. But friends and family, I mean, this is a rare situation. You're surrounded by people who know your plight and they'd go. Hey, we'll help out until bedtime. Yeah, I mean we've got a great support system.

But it's to the point where I mean my mother's coming over and kind of taking care of my daughter during the day. We do have other family and friends who help out a lot And we lean on them quite a bit. So I guess it might be a possibility To know it. to explain it has to be. Yeah, what are your other options?

You have no other option. You don't? you can't burn your mercy fund. The goal is to use as little as possible from that fund. Yeah, it's not sustainable.

Yeah, you can't go into debt and live off credit cards. It's just gonna make the problem even worse. So we have to figure out how to spend less and make more. That's the only way to get this 600 bucks in margin. Yeah, and unfortunately, right now it is on your wife and that stinks, But you she can make more money, and that solves this problem and keeps you guys from burning through really important funds.

That's our reality right now. So we got to work within that reality. I'm so sorry. This is happening, Steve. This is the Ramsey show.

Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz. when it comes to teaching kids about money, Moms tell me all the time just how overwhelming it can feel to get started. That's why I'm so excited to tell you about financial peace, kids. This toolkit was designed to make learning to save, earn spend and give money fun for both you and your kids. The best part it only takes 10 minutes a day.

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Welcome back America. This is the Ramsey show helping you win with your money in your work and in your relationships. triple, 8, 8, 2, 5, 5, 2, 2, 5 Is the phone number? We'd love to hear from you. I'm Ken Coleman.

George Campbell joins me and we're gonna go to Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Tom is there, Tom? How can we help I? Get? hey, yeah, I'm 60, 61 in June, zero in retirement.

My wife and I bring in about 7200 a month after taxes. That's clear. I have about 26,000 in debt right now between credit cards, some personal loans and the tax bill, it's due The end of June. I have my budget out. Everything's done.

My question is in October, when they are paid off. I would like to do a max out to Roth IRAs and Then and then do my 401k work. that still leaves me about two thousand a month extra to Invest. where is the best place to put that? So I get the most Return on it for the next four and a half years, five years.

What happens after five years? I Would like to retire when I'm 65.. Oh boy. Well, I wish you could just announce that at once you turn 65, you get to Die. Man, I would love that for you, Tom, but I don't know that the numbers will work out.

if you just stop working, Yeah, we're gonna get about. we'll get no less than 4,000 a month from Social Security. and I take in the fact in 2034 it's supposed to down eat, you know 80%. So I have all those numbers crunched in there and everything. my thought is, if I can get around a hundred and fifty thousand to 160, 175, I can take an extra 1,500 a month Out of the the investments and, and that's at 8% average in 8%.

I know it's pretty aggressive. That's that we have a fidelity growth fund in it and at work, which is average, is 8 to 12. So I've looked at that. So I've done some homework, but I'm just curious if there's anything other You know than the 401k where I'm gonna get it with taxes. probably when I take that out, You know, I'm gonna max out the two Roth IRAs for my wife and I.

Yeah, outside you got 401k through your employer. You have the IRA outside of an employer and then you can also Invest in health savings account if you have access to one of those through a high deductible health plan. That's another spot you can invest. Okay, is that taxable at the end of the year or whenever I take it out? That rolls over, right?

You can roll that over. Yes, the HSA will roll over, and if you use it for qualified medical expenses, you can take it out tax-free. It'll grow tax-free. if you use it for something else, then after 65 It kind of turns into more like a traditional 401k, where it will become taxable income if it's not used for those medical expenses. So those are three options for you.

outside of that. There is a brokerage account. That's not connected to retirement, non-retirement brokerage account That is taxable. So you'll have short-term capital gains, long-term capital gains. But I I feel like, right now we need to just focus on stacking, getting out of this debt.

Do you have a mortgage as well? No, our house is paid off good. So we have the 26,000 in consumer debt. You said will be done by October. Yeah Yeah, I have a $5,000 tax bill.

Our taxes are 4,500 a year. No, which is why I want to probably sell the house when I'm 65 and there's been downsize. Oh, you'd, would you pay cash for the next house? Exactly. Yes.

Okay. Yes, that's a good plan. The proceeds from this and get something smaller. Hopefully maybe have another 50 or 60 left over from that. And then you do have cash contributions with the 401k and the IRA at your age.

Right, so I would take advantage of all of that. max everything out Once you get rid of the consumer debt and once you have a three to six month emergency fund. Right. Yeah, I have the town. I'm not worried about the thousand.

I have that. Well, you need more than that. once you're out, I get home. Yeah. Yeah.

So you might not be investing till next year.

Correct, correct. Yeah, okay, but that's the game plan. I actually have. I might need to work longer than 65. Pardon, you might need to work longer than 65, and I would plan on that.

Yeah, I, I've done the numbers all the way up to 67, which is my, my My max or my my actual retirement date. so

Yeah, I've looked at it and then they get to me like an extra four or five hundred a month to my social security. Not that I want to rely on that, because you never know. But yeah, what do you? what do you enjoy doing, Tom? If it's delicious to fast forward and let's just assume you're, you're bored out of your mind a year into retirement And you're like man, I gotta get out.

Do something. What do you? what would you do? What do you enjoy? My I already.

This is another another bonus on that. I did start. I've started two companies During the time frame from I was 18 through. Now I've started two companies and sold them. We've been very well.

We've been blessed. the problem was, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna say this my dad passed away when he's six months away, works from retiring, and He And I had a heart attack four years ago. So I was like I'm gonna live like it's my last, Because you just don't know, and I think that's where I fell into a trap of some of the other stuff. So I have actually, about three months ago, started a small company, small business To take care of me if I'm bored.

my wife and I love to golf, and so we have that also. That's an entertainment thing, but as far as making extra money, I Started a small candle company local. I know already in some retail shops, Looking at doing an Etsy thing, Not looking at blowing it up, anything huge, but there's some extra cash flow. It is financing itself. right now I'm reinvesting everything.

I've only put about 600 of my own in it to get it started. So I do have some things there. Well, that's good. Yeah, you know why? I have a point.

Yeah, I have a plan and yeah, I just that was. my one fear was being bored out of my mind, Because you're gonna go off a golf course so many times before you like, okay, and that's my point, You can slow down, enjoy life, do those things, but fully retiring in your situation. if you're supplementing Some of your basics, like gas and groceries and utilities in that paid-off house, Working for yourself or somebody else, That's supplementing because you are way behind on actual retirement. and George is right, you know That's not going to add up that quickly. so having a fallback plan right now is really smart and I would say to you that we need to Change the way we talk about this in America.

this idea of retiring doesn't mean Just waking up and we'll and and and just bots in around all day doing hobbies. There is a way to work. I think we could, should continue to work on some level, not necessarily because we have to go, because we want to, and You know, I think that we got a. we got a lot of people that are George boomers, that are moving in retirement and we're watching people Come back. It's like I want to do something and in this case, Tom, the right do something Could really help you out on those basic expenses for a while.

So, Tom, can I ask, as a case study, what causes someone to not invest a dime until 61 years old? Well, I think you know, I fell back on that one Where my dad like what said she? he was 60.. It was six months away from retiring and.

I, And I hate to say this my motto was money's only something, you don't die tomorrow. And I, that was my thing. and we just two. three years ago, we took 17 golf trips down to Virginia. So you've just been yolo in your entire adult, Tim McGraw.

So yeah, live like you're done like a dime skydiving, Rocky Mountain climbing, Wow.

Yeah,

Yeah, Yeah, There's a lesson to be learned there. Enjoy life, but also ask that yourself the question. Hey, how am I gonna retire one day? Yeah, I would find something that you enjoy doing, because I think I enjoy the candles. I've had good reception.

No, not a lot of margin in those candles, though. are there, Tom? I Didn't think really, but you gotta move a lot of candles. Yeah, That's what I'm thinking. I buy a candle like two times a year.

I'm about 85% profit margin on on a candle. Okay, I gotta tell you I'm very surprised by that. I'm gonna do some research on candles, George. I think minor, All-natural. I have a great place that I, I can go pick up my, my, my Materials myself.

I don't have to pay for shipping or anything. So everything's real close, Tom. the candle made out. Huh, guy is gonna candle, make his way right into retirement. light one up for Tom.

Shall we? this is the Ramsey show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey. solutions. This is the Ramsey show. It's where we help you win in your life, Specifically with your money, in your work and in your relationships. the phone number to jump in is triple-a, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five.

triple-a, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five. I'm sitting next to the incomparable George Campbell, I thought you're gonna say incompetent. No. No, you've been great today, pretty wild. how close those two words.

It's only a, it's only a thin slice between the two sometimes. and boy, do I know? I know, because it's live man, And it's it's you never know what's gonna happen. folks. It's one of the great joys of doing live broadcasting.

I'm Ken Coleman. I'll be your hostess, our George Campbell, co-hosting with me. Let's get to David now in Orlando, Florida, David, How can we help today? Uh-huh. I'm just kind of getting into it started with him to you guys a few months ago.

I'm trying to Pay off a little bit of personal debt that I have, but I am unsure of The best way of doing a red two steps, and I'm working on paying down roughly 20,000 personal debt. Mm-hmm and Absolutely, maybe five thousand school loans, and then I have twenty thousand vehicles.

So I'm just trying to figure out like I don't know. So it's. it's a new concept of not just kind of. I make more money so you can survive, And that was always my answer about it to make more money and everything out. earn the stupidity.

I'm glad you're here, man. Welcome to our crazy crew. By the way, you're not alone, David. No shame in your game here, We've all been there. So, what's your income?

Oh, all right.

Before taxes, maybe 320 a year. Whoa, fantastic. What do you do? I Work with computer and cybersecurity. nice.

See, I'm trying to tell people. we had a guy earlier in cybersecurity making 50, and we're like What are you doing, David? Really quick question. How much was your education? And what did you get?

I think.

Probably 60 or 70,000.. Would you believe we had a young girl. that was how much in debt? $270,000 in student loans for computer science degree, now making 50.. Can you believe that?

David in cybersecurity? That's what he told us. It Cool, different schools, different prices are that I got a bachelor's in computer information systems. well, David, Congrats on a big shovel. Yeah, that helps a ton.

My goodness. So now what just takes we got to go? how little can we live on to throw the rest of the debt? and that's where? A budget comes into play.

Have you actually done a budget laying out your income minus expenses?

Some, but probably not a great one. In my household, we kind of split everything. So That's what I make. goes into all of the house. Are you married?

all the house things? Yeah, okay, So what's the total household income? is your spouse working outside the home? Yeah, She brings in Or four taxes, like 150.

You're telling me, you guys are making 470 gross income, some somewhere in there, and you're in 45,000 of consumer debt.

Yes, and that's. but I guess, since we split, I think of, like my personal consumer debt, I said, outside of that we just have the house and then her car and then whatever Personal that she has a shit many school alone. So I mean So, for I would encourage you this is a sign aside But to combine finances completely and attack these debts together with both of your incomes.

Okay, what's stopping you guys from doing that right now? Um, I think we we learned that the the system really worked. Well, when you started doing this way, I said early on the marriages, One person makes more, and it felt like they weren't paying their part in the middle. All right, each person paid in their Part. that goes toward all the family shop.

Yeah, I used to do that when I had a roommate here, But when I got married that wasn't gonna fly with my wife, because if my wife stays home, I don't go. Well, you're not bringing any income. That means you don't get to eat out this month, you know. And so I think it creates a weird tension in a marriage that doesn't need to exist. Whose idea was this?

yours or hers? Are you both equally for the separating of the finances? Oh, I think we're both equally, for I think I said this was before maybe the high point of our Earning, and it was it would fluctuate, one person making 60, 70, and then it was like, all right. Well, you have to put in your portion. Yeah, before we're married, and all that.

Well, all right, It never seemed to equate out when it was like, all right. Whatever, half of what you make. it goes into the family pod. It pays for vacations. It pays for We get.

It's just George's suggesting this for a reason that we're unified. but I can tell when he made that suggestion It was like me saying you should eat kale for three meals a day for three straight months. You were like, okay, Thanks, George. I, I don't think you're gonna do that. I just think it's gonna speed up the process and it's going to create a better marriage.

Both and and so I agree. What's the? what's your wife's car loan? I Think she has maybe 20,000 left on it. Okay, so you're 65,000 all in on consumer debt in this household, right?

Yes, you make 470.. Let's say you bring home 250 Plus. that's about 55%. take home with that income. Okay, is that fair?

That seems fair. That's about 21 grand a month. If you guys aren't investing, that's, or even if you are, that should be 21 to 25 grand a month. you're taking home. Okay.

So the question is can we live off of five grand and throw 20 at the debt and be done in three months?

Oh, Probably I can't imagine that we couldn't, and that's where the budget, instead of a probably the budget says Yes, if you follow this math and process, which you do in cybersecurity There's a lot of processes and you're a process guy. You will be out of debt in three or four months, Completely, not just your debt, her debt, too, And then you're gonna free up all of those payments that can now go go toward investing and spending and enjoying life.

Okay, so I'm gonna give to you our every dollar premium budget to help you lay this out and you're gonna list income at the Top both of your incomes. every single paycheck gets its own line item below. That is going to be every single one of your expenses from food, utility, shelter, transportation, insurance, Whatever it is. and for the next three or four months you got, you're gonna hunker down and go. how little can we live on?

To get by, to throw the rest of the debt? and I'm telling you, if you do that for four months, You guys will be debt-free.

Okay, no, it sounds great, and you're gonna list out your debts from smallest to largest balance, Even if it's three different student loans making up the 5k. Split it all out, pay them off smallest to largest balance. ignore the interest rates. This is about momentum and progress, and I'm telling you, man, Call us back if it doesn't work, because I will be shocked if you don't call back three months now saying, dude, We're debt-free, it worked, Yeah, And no, that sounds good, David, We're gonna challenge you to sit down and have a new Conversation, a different conversation, about how George challenged you and I agree with him to combine your finances and what that's gonna do, Not just for your financial prowess and the ability to multiply things, But also just for your marriage. couples that do this together, that do money together.

They have better lives because you're either growing apart, you're growing together, and I found people with separate finances. They tend to grow apart, and I'm not okay with that. Yeah, and I think they are apart from day one. It's just a different life. I got my life and expenditures and you got yours, and oh, by the way, We've got this little pot we're contributing to listen couples that Venmo each other.

Y'all good, bro, Yeah, y'all good. I don't know what is happening. It's like my fantasy football league. We all put $100 in at the start of the season and you know, hey, That's not the kind of fantasy. I want to live.

Well played, George Campbell folks. He's gonna be here for the rest of the show. You don't want to miss more of those quips. This is the Ramsey show.

All right, let's cut to the chase. it's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. There's someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at Ramsey solutions.com slash agent.

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Welcome back America, you're joining the conversation about your life. We do it with you, you know, here on the Ramsey show, I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. the phone numbers triple, eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five time for our question of the Day, it's sponsored by neighborly, your hub for home services. There are some things around the house.

You can handle yourself. I can't, but maybe you can. But electrical problems probably aren't on the list. You know what you do, George, when you have electrical problems. What do you do?

You contact mr. Electric. naturally, I don't mess with that stuff. You're not gonna call. Mr.

Plumbing. You're gonna call. Mr. Electric For a licensed professional with upfront pricing near you, by the way, I'd try the hackle. I don't know if it'll work.

They might not like it, but I'd try it. Good line. Mr Electric online at neighborly.com slash Ramsey. today's question comes from Angela in Utah. I keep hearing about 78% of people in the u.s Living paycheck to paycheck and I am wondering if we are these people.

we do not have debt. We paid off the house, have our one-year emergency fund, paid cash for college for our son and have IRAs. We try to live a modest lifestyle, but we need our paychecks to fund it. Does this mean we live paycheck to paycheck? Do we need to be very wealthy to not need income at all to not be paycheck to paycheck?

Well, good news, Angela, you're doing great. you are not in the bucket of what we would call paycheck to paycheck, and Here's how I know that the the idea of paycheck to paycheck. this can mean a lot of things, depending on who you ask, But my definition is if you cover your just necessary bills and have nothing left over, You are paycheck to paycheck, but you guys clearly have a lot of money left over. you're able to fund retirement, You're able to save up the emergency fund, You're able to pay cash for college, and so that would by definition mean you're not paycheck to paycheck now. Yes, you need income to keep up your current lifestyle and make a sustainable and cover bills.

That's normal, but the idea is, if one paycheck went missing, you guys would still be okay. You have your emergency fund. You've got your bills taken care of. so that's my. that's how I see it, Ken.

Yeah, I agree with you that that that concept just is that we have zero money until we get paid next time, and You are not in that situation. I mean a one-year emergency fund. I mean plenty. you got cash for your son, the IRAs. She doesn't tell us.

but I guarantee you, when you see a person that's got a one-year emergency fund, I could tell you their IRAs are chock-full and they probably have a bunker just in case something goes down. Oh, in Utah nonetheless, good point. So yeah, I mean the way I look at it. when we do a zero base budget, income, minus expenses equals zero. So when my wife and I sit down to budget every dollars accounted for, there's not just money sitting around, Because we've put it all in its proper place, right?

Maybe that's investing in retirement and 401ks, Maybe that's putting it away in the high-yield savings account or spending. but it doesn't mean that we have no money. We've just allocated every dollar. Yeah, intentionally. Yeah, and where are you on the emergency prepping?

Where are you on the scale to you don't care at all to. you've got a bunker. I'm in the don't care at all. And here's my thing find a friend who's got the bunker. Hmm, and set up an arrangement.

So, like John Deloney, that's my buddy. Yeah, something goes down. I'm going to John's cabin in the woods. It's gonna be awkward when he doesn't let you in. That's the hope is that they actually let me in.

yeah, I am on the not doing anything at all, because I believe that There's just no matter of if they want to, whoever they is wants to cook you with the drones and all the things. Yeah, they'll find you. I'm just heading to the beach. Well, I'm ready for the good. take me at that point.

You know, that's why I stick around in a post-apocalyptic. I don't want to be there, left behind tribulation, universe. I'm gonna go out, get myself a good margarita, sit on the beach, Sand between the toes and and when it all ends, I'm gonna watch it happen. It's gonna be great. drink your Gumby slumber and take a long slumber.

This is a great suggestion. There we go. Great suggestion, All right. There's your segment on emergency prepping from Ken and George. We really don't care So not to show for that topic.

Julie is waiting for us in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Julie, how can we help? Hey, thanks so much for taking my call. What we're looking for is a solution to reduce our workload. My husband currently works full-time and we have investment properties as well. Okay, tell us more about his job.

What does he do? And how much does he make?

He does maintenance type work and he makes approximately 52 K per year. Okay, and are the rental properties paid for?

They are paid except for 250 K, and how many properties? Yeah,

15 properties, 18 doors. Okay, and how many are paid off?

I Would say 60 to 65 percent of them. and do you work? Outside the whole? You know, I manage the properties. what kind of revenue, what are you guys paying yourself, if anything at all, from these rentals?

Yeah. Well, I would say, on average we're bringing in about 6,500.

Promont on Yes, 6,500, much profit. and then what are you guys paying yourself out of that? Are you just putting that money back into the, the, the, maybe a fund or something that takes care of expenses? What? what are you doing to 6,500 a month?

Yeah, so Up until recently we were not having that much income, because we've just paid some off recently. So it generally just rolled over in the checking account, Or we have it in a savings account as well. And what are you wanting to do? What's your question?

We just work a lot. My husband works 40 hours a week and goes to work and then almost two to three times a week He needs to go out and make a repair. We work a lot of Saturdays when there's turnover with cleaning and Things like that. It's hard to find people who want to do that kind of work that are reliable.

So are you wanting to have him quit his full-time job? Yeah, well, that's my question. I don't know if that's a wise decision, you know, we've medical benefits for his full-time job. Well, in the the revenue your take-home pay from these rental properties. Will it increase?

if he's working on this full-time? What would that do?

Yeah, we paid about 55,000 last year for someone to do repairs that my husband would then be doing. so he's capable of doing every single one of those Repairs, it was just a time issue. Yes, it's just a time restriction. What's your equity on these? So I know you've got, I think you said, 16 properties and and you and you owe 250 total across all of those Right.

So, of the ones that are paid off, what's your equity?

Oh, Probably around the same. What do you mean? What do you mean? the same? 250k?

Yes, probably probably closer to 400 K. So 15 properties total are only worth 650 K.

I'd say 15 properties total are worth about a million. Okay. Well, you owe 250, which means you have 750 in equity.

Right, okay, you see where we're going. and the reason I'm asking this question, Julie's, because if, if he would prefer To walk away from the current maintenance job and the only thing keeping in there is benefits, Then you want to get to a place where you're self-insured, right? And the only way to get self-insured is to look at can we cash in some of these properties? Pay off the 250? so George is doing the math for you.

So that's why I'm asking that question, because I want George to kind of weigh in. I I personally would start unloading some properties, Remove the debt and then look at and do your homework on what it's gonna cost. Yeah, because I've got friends who do this, Julie, full-time. They're in the rental investment property business. They are paying thousands a month in health insurance because they have to go get private health care out in the marketplace versus through an employer, and It's a huge cost that could make this not worth.

The juice may not be worth the squeeze. here is what I'm trying to say. And so where I'm going, Julie, is do we cut back on how many properties we own? To work? because this is about time this phone calls about we're working our property management company and they take a cut and it lowers Your take-home.

It alleviates the time on Saturdays and all this stuff that you're you know, they called in about. we got about 40 seconds. What do you think of Julie about what we said? The other thing I did want to mention is we have the means to pay these off now. Do you have the cash money?

I have the cash. I could pay them off. do it. You know what? That's gonna do?

increase your cash flow. Yeah, I'd look at a property manager. It's gonna reduce your risk and then you can afford to do the property management. take the cut and still be fine. But you guys are trying to reduce your amount of time working on these things.

So you got a way, it. You know, how much is it costing us financially to manage all these properties? Ourselves, that's, this is a simple formula. You guys just need to cut back somewhere, pay more somewhere else. But, proud of you, this is a great situation to be in.

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Welcome back America. We're talking about you with you. This is the Ramsey show, helping you win in your money and your work and in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman, George Campbell joins me and we're here for you this hour. Triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five, triple, eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five.

Let's go to Birmingham, Alabama. Not too far south of us, here in the Nashville area, and Ryan awaits Ryan. How can we help?

Hey, quick question for you guys. Um, I am 24 years old and I work in the sawmill supply industry and I'm a salesman. Wondering, I'm sorry, the what. well, I Work in the sawmill supply industry. sawmill.

I apologize, You're good. And I Make around 45,000 a year. I have no benefits. I make no commission on any sales And I do deliveries to kind of supplement what I do at at the shop there And I end up working a lot of overtime and being on salary. I don't get paid for that overtime and I think last year, through about November, through October, through December, I worked 76 hours of overtime and I didn't see a penny for it and I.

Have talked to my boss and it's kind of a hard situation because My wife cousin is married to my boss and we go to church with them. We're very good friends with them and I had a conversation about it, telling him that I wasn't really exactly happy with Working that amount of overtime and not getting paid for it. And he looked at me and he told me, you know, I completely understand if I was in your.

Shoes, I feel the same way, and then the next day proceeds to send me out to a Out and I worked about 30 hours of overtime that weekend And I had all asked to have off Monday the day off, and he told me that that wouldn't work. How should I go about handling that, you know from the work life and the, I guess, family life, social life situation, I'm just really confused about how to handle it. Okay, So you need to handle it the way that you would want somebody to handle with you. So you put you, put yourself in his shoes and you've already been really upfront. Yes, I'm gonna.

I'm gonna reserve my real feelings about this guy because he's married to your wife's cousin. I could care less about the marriage connection. So I'm gonna reserve what I really think about the guy And just tell you that you need to start looking today.

period and when you find something that Is something that you enjoy, maybe sales. you're good at sales. You got something, that the compensation is Matched up to your effort and there's no lid on you. You are in a situation where there is a lid on you. you have, you have, very respectfully, It sounds like raised your objections and and he kind of said I understand I'd be the same way if I'm you, but sucks to be you.

I need you to go out this weekend, and I'm not giving you money up. I mean, it's just tone-deaf. So that's not all I'm gonna say. I already went past the line. I said it wasn't anything, I couldn't help myself, but here's the deal.

Yeah, you find something else That's better. that gives you a ladder. So better in the now and better in the next. is our goal? Does that make sense?

And then, once we find that, we accept that job and we get that deal done, Then we walk into him and you treat him with class, Even though I don't think he's been classy to you. I think you go in and you just treat him like hey, man, Listen, I appreciate what you've done for me gave me an opportunity to work here. I appreciate it. I found a better opportunity for me and my future, and and so I'm tending my. I'm turning in my resignation And you wave to him at church and everything's fine.

That's right. I feel like there's something beyond. I don't think you're staying here because of the relationship. Are you worried that you can't find something better or that you don't know what that next thing is? Basically, what happened was is we me and my wife?

I actually moved here about three months before I got married. I'm originally from Ohio. I went to school down in Florida. That's where me and my wife met. She's from Florida and we moved here.

So we're about 10 hours from both of our families. I'll be kind of like to be closer, But just right now, I'm just afraid of. you know, I won't be able to find anything There. it is. Oh, if I were to quit, yeah, and I think that fear is um, Unsubstantiated 100%, to give you a big word.

Let's play that fear out, Ryan. Okay, fear, I'm not gonna be able to find anything. Okay, so we love not being able to find anything just more of like Something that would compare. my wife does have a job and we make together about 85,000 years. So we're not by any mean Struggling.

What do you want to do? I? right, and I would, and I eventually would love to. Before I went to college, my brother and I we had a a decent lawn care business when I lived back in, Ohio And I would love to get back into that and doing, you know, general property maintenance, that kind of thing. I'm good at it, I know what I'm doing, and it was just.

my fear is, You know my wife and I want to start to have kids. I would love for her not to have to work, But right now she has to and yeah, But hey, I can't really plan my. I can't plan my weeks out or anything, because usually these trips I go on I know the day of Yeah, if I'm going and if I'm gonna be gone for three days at a time, and it's just. it's just a struggle because also My boss's father, who actually owns the company I work for we have financed our house through him and he said he'd be willing to Buy it back, but it's just. we're just tied in a lot of different ways and I don't know how to handle it.

Well, I just told you how to handle it and in the finance thing I mean he wants to get paid back. So if you handle yourself like a turd, maybe he changes the terms, Maybe he tries to mess with it. You're not gonna handle yourself that way. She went up and said, hey, we're gonna move, we need to sell the property. What happens next?

Um, he actually said, whenever we want to sell the property, he would buy it back from us. for how much ever? so? Well, then I'd, how much is owed. Wait, did he give you that?

I don't understand. No, sorry, It was a mortgage. We had a mortgage through him. Basically. He was acting as our bank.

So he gets the mortgage back with 0% interest. Right. We're paying about 5% interest right now. So he said, whatever we, whatever, we have not paid off of our mortgage. That's what he will buy the house back for.

That's what I'm saying. That's it feels like a crummy deal for you guys. You lose all of your equity. It's an awful. exactly Exactly.

This sounds like a scam. Yeah, and a part of what we're I'm going through right now. is We actually the reason that the mortgage is so high? the house was bought for about 150, But he tied into that mortgage alone to remodel the house and a lot of it was.

They did surface work, but our plumbing is bad, Our duct work is bad, all that kind of stuff and I don't. and we just got quoted $17,000. fix all that and I don't know if I want to spend $10,000 into a house. You got used, dude, You got played, and that sucks, and it's a stupid tax that you might have to pay at the end of this. But I'm getting out of this whole situation.

I would start getting tied with family and 100 boss situation. I mean, Ryan, you got a bad deal and there's no fixing this bad deal. get out of it now. Now I'm gonna go back to the other issue of the fear, George's great great perception there. Listen, if you want to get into lawn care, you're not making a ton of money right now.

You're making 45 a year. I think I wrote down. Is that right? Right. Yeah, You could go make 45 a year for somebody who needs somebody who's a hustler, who you know, Who will get out there and and do a lot of the work and self managing properties?

I believe you can go from 45 to 45 right now with not too much effort in Birmingham. But more importantly, I would get in. I would look to get into the lawn care business, property management business. now, Here's why someone's gonna pay you To learn how to do it for yourself one day. I I don't think this is a big stretch, But listen, instead of sitting around thinking about it and stewing about what would happen when you leave, Start thinking about what you want your life to look like.

you need to cut ties with these people. I think it's manipulative that you're in a you're in a manipulative, unhealthy, weird situation and You need to be thinking about what you and your wife want to do, Who you want to be, where you want to do it, how you want to do it. take some ownership of your life. I think you got to be moving into the the area you want to be in the future, but have someone else pay you to learn how to do it. and with a path to 55, 65, 75,000, $100,000, let's go you.

let's start looking. today, Like when the phone when you hang up, you need to start looking, And I already already have been. I've already started back down that process, But I've got a lot of connections in the town of where I lived. I've handed out cards and everything I know. it's doable.

I just would hate for because you know, my my father-in-law is a very successful businessman And I'm just trying to. I'm just trying to be as good as I can at what I do. you are. No, you're terrified to offend somebody and you got to stop. I want to bring it back to George for the remaining 30 40 seconds here on what he needs to do on this house Situation.

take it away. You need to figure out what the terms are that you sign to, if there are any, and get out of this deal as unscathed As possible and get your equity back. I don't like this deal where he gets it for whatever's left from the mortgage Versus the market value. so you need to figure all that out. do your homework so that you guys get out of this thing with As much money as possible.

Man, that sucks Golly. that makes me angry. time to man up Ryan and not worry about what everybody else is gonna think or say about what you Are supposed to do with your life, you're a good dude. Own it and make some action happen quickly. This is the Ramsey.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me, our scripture. the day comes from Isaiah 6, 8. Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying whom shall I send and who will go for us?

And I said here am I send me our quote from Thomas Edison. if we did all the things we were We are really capable of doing, we would literally astound ourselves. Feel like that's got a sports reference for you, George, and I don't like. Thomas Edison was a big sports guy. No, but I'm applying it.

Oh, he's saying, if we did all the things are really capable of doing, we would astound ourselves, and this is my Encouragement and pitch to get you out on the pickleball court with me. Oh, I know you're, you're. I know you're a little reluctant to do any kind of sport. I feel like over 30. you're asking for a torn ACL on the pickleball court.

No, no, I've been playing for months and I'm fine. These hammies don't move like they used to. can tell you that much? I've played golf with you. What are the chances that we play pickleball?

after seeing me play golf? I'm surprised you ever want to see me. It's a lot less work. It's a lot less motion. You just keep it in here.

You know, it's not this big long swing, true story, James. I played golf with George one time on a Ramsey personality retreat, and I don't want to exaggerate here, but you swung at the ball on one tee, I think, six times and never hit the ball. But it was the funniest thing I ever seen was laughing because I was just hitting air or dirt. I was on the ground. I was sitting on the ground beside myself, watching you as you were really trying.

Yeah, well, you weren't swinging hard. That's the other thing. It wasn't because you were really going after. you were like like an old woman missing it. Yeah, but I appreciate that you went out there and did it, but to be fair, I also you did destroyed you in mini-golf one.

That is such a Rumor, there's no destroying. you snuck up on me because I wasn't taking it. Seriously. All right. Hey, bring, bring Ken to the skate park and see how he does on a skateboard.

There we go. I'll out skate you any day. I will admit that I wouldn't be able to stay on the skateboard. more than it's an extreme sport, Ken. No, I couldn't do it.

I have no, no, no ability on a skateboard. So there he's all right. We stick to buds behind the desk. is a safe place for us, a safe place on the mics. A good place.

How about Harold joining us in Milwaukee, Wisconsin? Harold, how can we help? Hey guys, I'm a little nervous. I apologize. Oh, listen, you just heard these, the two of us talking to each other.

How could you possibly nervous talking to us? it's cuz. Well, George and Ken. by the way, thank you for taking my call. You know, you're doing great.

I want to, yeah, Thank you, George. Just want to tell you that your book has changed my life around.

I'll be honest, man. I got one more chapter to Finish up, which is tonight, but uh, I'm a newbie. I started listening to the show three weeks ago by a friend who kept telling me, like you got to listen to Dave Ramsey, I'm like, who's this guy? He's talking about? and You start plugging in.

and since to this day, I'll listen to all your episodes back in November, just to keep me going and going going. But my question is I am in $31,000 in debt, 20,000 in school loans and 10,000 is in my. You know, credit cards and stuff, but um, I think I make good money for you know, last last year I grossed out about a hundred and ten thousand dollars. I have a goal, and my why is my kids, my kids and my girlfriend? Um, well, my goal is I want to clear my debt, boss.

Um, just because I want to be able to take my family on a real vacation. Um, I've never got to experience that as a kid, but I want to take my my daughter to a business world. You know, and I love and that's a great why I love the family tree. What an amazing experience. Tell him how he does it, George.

Well, we're gonna help you break these chains, man, You're gonna ever see debt again after we're done with you. You make a hundred ten. You're thirty one thousand in debt. So there's a simple math equation here, and it's how little can we live off of and how quickly can we pay off the debt? With the margin we create?

Correct. Yeah, so, you know, but I'm not to cut you off. No good thing. three within these three weeks. Uh, I Paid off two credit cards, you know.

And like I said, I I'm not. I also I forgot to include, was. I have two personal loans, which are roughly about five thousand. Um, one of them I only owe twelve hundred, and I just I feel like, if I pay that personal loan, that will save me a lot more money to keep going after more my credit cards, but But yes, I I'm sorry not to cut you off, but I just wanted to know, let's help you. Well, I found the the people who actually pay off debt.

They follow the debt snowball method, and what you're Wanting to do is, hey, let's free up the bigger payment, Let's do it this way. But we found that you're gonna knock out these debts so quickly that it's not really gonna make a mathematical difference, But it will make a psychological and emotional difference when you knock out another two, three credit cards in the next month Because of that momentum that you've created, and so you're gonna free up the payments either way and make it a hundred ten. How quickly do you think you'll be able to pay off this thirty, one thousand, plus the personal loans, with some intensity? I'm hungry. I'll be honest.

Eight months, great answer, I'm hungry. I my goal. I'm not gonna lie. I told myself six to twelve months. love it, but I'm trying to attack it as soon as possible.

Um, I, you got any savings. I Do. I actually have about my emergency fund of $1,000. good, that I put to the side, But I also have an extra about five thousand as well, dude. That's amazing.

So how many? if you list out your debt smallest to largest, how many can you knock out with that? 5,000 sitting in savings? I Can knocked out, I want to say, two credit cards in a personal loan. That's amazing, And that's gonna free up a whole bunch of payments which you're gonna apply to the next debt and the next step.

So I fully believe this. this debts gone in six months, pause all investing, just go scorched earth. I mean cover food, utility, shelter, transportation, take care of the kids, but outside of that, you're just working man. Yeah, and I'm not gonna lie. I've been with my girlfriend for seven years and, uh, I want to put a ring as well This year.

so that's probably another reason why I want to go to Disney World. just proposed to her and surprise her Oh, I love this. She's. uh, I got engaged at Disney World. Did you?

yeah, I didn't know that, You don't know the story. following the footsteps of greatness Harold, with her over here telling you It's she'll, she will tell that story for the rest of your life. It's a great move, but You got to pay all this stuff off. I mean like when this phone calls over George, Is he not cutting, knocking out those three debts? five grand?

Boom. Let's go. Yeah, I will, I will. and then I do have one last question. All right, real quick, because we got, we got to get to it fast.

We got about two minutes, Harold. Yeah, what, though? Financial Peace University? I was thinking about Buying it tonight to actually take like, I don't know. I guess once I start something, I don't want to stop.

So, like I'm so focused into this right now, Like I was thinking about investing in the Financial Peace University. So probably help me more to like keep me going and going and going, save the hundred bucks. We'll gift it to you. Oh, I know, I don't know if that's your angling for, but I'm in a good mood today and I like you, Harold, But a ping but a boom. and while we're at it, I'm gonna.

I'm gonna send you a copy of the book breaking free from broke, so you can get someone else's journey started. Oh, Thank you, I Appreciate that you just made my day. Yeah, I'll sign it for you and personalize it as well. So I'll get with the team. hang on the line, Austin will get you hooked up with Financial Peace University and I'll send you a signed copy of the book.

Since you're an inspiration to me, man, I love a guy who just decided. one day Ken woke up and said enough is enough. I work too hard to feel this broke. Yep. I'm done with debt.

I'm done with games. Yep, I want to leave a different kind of legacy for my family, done with the chains. I got kids, I got a girlfriend that I want to marry and start a life with. what am I doing? still playing around with debt?

And can we just highlight the fact that he's got a great Motivator in the form of a vision that he really wants. He wants to take his daughter, Take the girlfriend, to Disney, you know the the magical, you know, the greatest place.

Everything, and and that is pulling him forward like a magnet to knock this debt out. Harold, you did great. I know you're nervous, but man, you're just crushing it. and Financial Peace University is George's pre wedding gift. I love that and Way to look at it, and I will tell you, my friend, Call up the Disney wedding department, Tell them look, I want to do something custom.

Here's what I have to spend. What can I do? That's what I did. Oh, back in the day you tell them the budget. Yeah, now, I'm sure times have changed.

Do you think it's still gonna cost a nickel and a bushel of raspberries to make this happen? I had five gifts delivered throughout the day at different times. Stacey thought I was in Virginia. I was there with a Disney staffer behind the scenes. Her father was leading her to different places throughout the park and she got five different gifts with a note saying I'm sorry I couldn't be with you today was all a set up.

I didn't know you were such a romantic. we ended up right below the castle.

Tinkerbell flies over, I pop out from behind us. a sign by the ping-pong. ping-pong, a boom. Put a ring on it. 25 years later.

The magic is still adulation, magic is still there. George Campbell, great show. James Childs, our fearless leader in the crew. Thank you guys. Thank you, America.

This is your show. This is the Ramsey show.

so much, Rachel, not enough and yet too much. We talked about guilt tipping, because tipping is out of control and I won't stand for it anymore, which is why I'm sitting. I'm glad you're taking such a stand. and we also talk about something else. I'm passionate about Disney adults, George.

Why is it a thing? Listen, some adults still find the magic. Sure. We also talk about toxic money traits and girl math, and if you don't know what those are, You have to listen to the pod. Yeah, there's a lot there, you guys.

it's pretty fun. We keep you relevant is what I'm trying to say. We help you out. So pull up a chair to the happy hour. You wish your friends were having.

we promise you won't regret it, And if you don't have friends, we'll be your friends. We will. we're great friends, So make sure to check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or the Ramsey Network app.