Inside Up and Vanished: In The Midnight Sun

It started with a backpack at the 1996 centennial Olympic Games, a backpack that contained a bomb. While the authorities focused on the wrong suspect, a serial bomber planned his next attacks two abortion clinics and a lesbian bar.

I saw as soon as I turned the corner, basically someone bleeding out.

The victims of these brutal attacks were left to pick up the pieces. Forced to explore the gray areas between right and wrong, life and death, their once ordinary lives and mine changed forever.

It kind of gave me a feeling of pending doom.

And all the while, our country found itself facing down a long and ugly reckoning with a growing threat far-right, homegrown religious terrorism. Listen to Flashpoint starting July 25th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Before we get started, I have a new show to tell you about from the Up Vantage team. It's called Status Untraced. Check out this clip and stick around until the end of the episode for the official trailer.

I should return mid-September or so.

If I'm not back by then, don't look for me.

And it was one thing that kind of made me feel weird about whenever he'd talk about his plans for India. And the more I've thought about it, especially over the years, it almost seemed like he was preparing for something because he wanted to be famous. He made that openly clear, like that was his end goal, and it was just weird as I thought about it more and more. How he was trying to visit everybody before he went on this one last big trip, where he was trying to find himself like he was saying his goodbyes to everybody and then just disappears.

Hey listeners, welcome back to Inside Tenderfoot TV. Today we're going inside the latest season of Up Vanished in the Midnight Sun.

I think the first thing that stands out is where it's located geographically. I think it's the furthest away from my home in Atlanta I've ever been and still been inside the United States. It's just a completely different environment out there in Alaska, and Nome specifically is different than most parts in Alaska itself. Because of where it's located and how you can get there.

Yeah, okay. So, given how far removed it is for you and from your life, what compelled you to actually choose this case to pursue? Because I'm sure there are thousands of other options that you had that would have been stateside. Can you talk a little more about that?

Yeah, I mean, I think that ever since season one of Up and Vanished, this show became a platform, and we've been able to create subsequent seasons. For me, it's become, I guess, the way I put it is, I look at Up and Vanished. The podcast now as also a resource and tool for the victims, families, the community and I feel like as a true crime podcast. We can offer the most support and help to potentially move the needle and find new information in a case that is largely uncovered in the media and missing Indigenous women has for a long time been not covered as much in mainstream media. And it's been a really large issue happening right under our nose.

A follow-up to that, since you're going really outside of your own community and you're diving into these other worlds in this show and in other shows. Can you talk a little bit about how you establish trust with the people that you're going to be? Interviewing with the families of the victims attempted trust with law enforcement? Can you talk about that process and your approach?

Yeah, I mean, I think that people are different everywhere, but I also think that we're also a lot the same everywhere. Even if you don't even speak literally the same language. I think that if you're going to a place as an outsider and you're aware of that, just be conscious of it and be willing to learn and be willing to be patient and understand things that you may not know and just listen. And I think that that universally translates. When I'm going to a place like Nome, Alaska, and I'm talking to the family of Florence Okpialik, who is a local Alaska native woman. I'm learning for the first time a lot about that culture and about how people grew up here and what it's like to live here. And I think it's okay to ask questions, sincerely, and you don't have to know the answers all the time.

So is there a lot of conversation and interview that happens before you actually start recording and rolling when you're talking to victim's families?

Well, to be honest, we're always rolling because we just learned that that's the way to go, because you learn the hard way. Usually, unless it's a super professional setting, where it's lights, camera action, there's not like a three, two one. We're rolling. Also. That kind of feels a little bit like we're making you more nervous, it's like we try to keep it casual. If you hear an eight-minute conversation on the podcast, there's a good chance that nine times out of ten, that was eight minutes from two hours, right?

Yeah, absolutely. Since you're in these very emotionally charged conversations with people, how do you personally maintain neutrality during an interview? Or do you even do you find yourself getting really pulled in? Can you talk about that experience?

I think it depends on the subject matter, specifically, who it is that I'm talking to, specifically. But when you're dealing with true crime content, you're talking about murder, you're talking about death, you're talking about tragedy, you're talking about bad people, people who are suffering. Those are aspects of this that are really dark, sad and unfortunate. And so there's a lot of navigating that and there is a level of objectivity that I consciously put forth to myself. Really more so in the way that, and this is just as an analogy, only like a therapist would, or something, right? We're like, if you're unpacking something that was trauma-related, right?

Is that a skill that you have learned and developed and worked on throughout working on up and vanished? Or is that something that you actually kind of a character trait that you've had your whole life?

It's a skill that I've been working on, still working on and developing my whole life. Podcast or not, there are plenty of examples that I won't even bring up about, like a past relationship or something right? Where active listening is just. These are things that in everyday life, people care about and feeling understood and heard, and things that I value a lot. And so a lot of it stems from how I felt when I didn't feel like I was heard, or what it literally was that made me feel that way. And these are not completely just set in stone rule book rules.

Yeah, okay, you touched a little bit on the difference between talking to families and talking to suspects, and the discomfort a bit. When I was listening to the show, I was legitimately scared for your safety a couple of times. Especially as you're using this old Facebook profile and you're getting these videos from Oregon. John of Guns, like showing his guns off to you. You're also in this really remote town with no roads, you've kind of established that.

Yeah, I really tried to in this season for that particular interview and everything that built up to that happening. Try to pull the curtain back a little bit for everybody, for you to see the paranoia and the live, active discussions. Because all that stuff was real, is real and is kind of what you may not see if we just jump. Cut it to me in a bar with Oregon, John, right? But yeah, I would say that in this scenario, I was well aware of the risk.

Right?

And not every true crime podcast has to go knock on the bad guy's door. But that's what I want to do to find answers, or what I'm willing to do. And if I back down now, it feels like I got so far. I could just see a family member saying, why didn't you talk to him? And I'm just going to say I was scared.

A bunch of podcast guys.

A bunch of podcast dorks in the back, but yeah, that was a totally different beast. And in that scenario, the way I'm approaching it is, stick to the plan, don't get too distracted, ask the questions.

Right?

Ask it again, It's different if they know who you are, because you can ask it in different ways and do it repeatedly. But in this case, I had to go back and forth from talking about other things back to what's up with flow and details about that. And every time I asked about it again, I was thinking, is this the time he thinks it's weird? is this the time that he's like, why are you so interested in that?

Right, well, and it seemed like he volunteered a lot of information, right? Wasn't he the first person that brought up Florence's disappearance? Initially? Like, was he bragging?

It was early on that we got there actually, and that was one of the biggest puzzles we were trying to solve is how do we get there in the conversation? And to me, I thought the easiest way to do that would be. If we could get to Nome, then we can get to that part of the conversation. And I didn't even have to bring up Nome. But we already had a backstory in our heads that we were very familiar with Nome and so we can talk about Nome.

Since this is a real-time investigation and we all want to know what's going on with the work of John. You had a great cliffhanger right at the end of the final episode of the season. Where you call him up as yourself because he does figure out who you are after you leave. Can you give us a little sneak peek without giving anything away? Do you get a hold of him again?

Well, to not spoil anything, which is going to be a very unfun answer. I'll just put it this way, he knows who I am. And we're not done yet.

Tune in in June, all right?

Right, exactly.

I'm Dan Taberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like, stuttering, super bad. I'm like, stop around. She's like, I can't.

A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

Like doubling and tripling, and it's all these girls.

With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

Everybody thought I was holding something back.

Well, you were holding something back intentionally.

Yeah, well, yeah.

It's hysteria, it's all in your head, it's not physical.

Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating.

Is this the largest mass hysteria since the Witches of Salem, or is it something else entirely?

Something's wrong here, something's not right.

Leroy was the new dateline and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery+.

I'm really interested in how you related Florence's case to Joseph Balderas case. Why, of all of the cases that happened? Why do you think those two are so closely linked? How did those become kind of these tandem investigations for you?

Well, if you're in Nome and you just walk the downtown Front Street for five minutes. If you see a missing poster for Florence, within the same 30 seconds, you're going to see a missing poster for Joseph. They're the two most recent suspicious, unsolved missing persons cases in Nome, of young people who just completely vanished. And there are no answers at all. And so because of that, they are closely linked. Because why did two people go missing in this town of 3,000 people? And there's zero answers? And there's posters everywhere and no one knows shit about it, right? Also, just like Flo's family had reached out to me on email, Joseph's family also did the same thing.

Right, so, can we expect to hear a lot more about his case in the June installment?

Yes, we have been researching and investigating Joseph's case for a long time, pretty much since the very beginning, and we have so much information, new information on his case. Which is really kind of why we decided to break it up into two parts like this because we wanted to be able to give both cases an authentic focus. It's hard to do both at the exact same time. But eventually they kind of dovetail together. Because of how small Noam is and how the departments relate, and how this person is the same person over here.

And you're heading back up there, right, to continue to do more research.

Mm-hmm, yes, a lot of people we've already talked to. There are some individuals that we have not yet had the face-to-face that we need to have. And a few other people we need to see in person that want to offer us information in that way. And so we're going back there to do that and really try to tie up loose ends. And put the pressure on the individuals we think are likely involved and put them on the spot a little bit and try to get people talking.

Right, so what has been the most challenging part of making this season of the show? is it the logistics or is there another element?

The logistics has been challenging.

So how do you take care of yourself? When you're on the road and you're in these extreme situations, you're dealing with a lot of emotions of other people? Do you have a process for self-care, or do you just go all in? And then when you're finished and you wrap and you come back home, you sleep for three days, or what's your process?

It's a lot of going all in. Yeah, sometimes we factor in days. There's no way that we'll be able to be doing this. on day four, we're going to be completely gassed.

Yeah, absolutely. What's been the most rewarding part of working on this season of the show for you?

I think the most rewarding part of working on this show has been establishing really true, real, meaningful relationships with the families. And even being able to have funny, silly conversations about stuff. And just being able to have open talks and open lines of communication and understanding amongst each other, that just feels really special and rewarding. And they're also super appreciative, and we're also super appreciative that they even trust us with this at all, right? That makes me feel good and better and everyone else, and makes us feel a little more confident. When it is confusing and you feel like you're out of your element. And so that, to me, has been probably the most rewarding part of this.

Right, so who do you think most needs to hear this show and especially this season?

The suspects?

Yeah.

In terms of wanting these cases solved. I think the people who know, the individuals who are responsible, the people who have that little nugget of information, the people who think they know somebody who knows it. I think those people need to hear it the most, because I think that leads to potential new information. Or somebody slipping up, or somebody confessing, or somebody acting out in some way that results in some sort of new action that exposes something. And then right next to that, it's the local community, knowing that these stories, these cases, these people, their disappearances have not been forgotten. And even though your local law enforcement sucks, there's other people out there. And I don't mean just me and us, other listeners, people out there who care about this issue and also want that to change. We can't necessarily go in there and reconstruct this ourselves right now, but we can highlight these issues and create enough interest and expose a big enough problem to where the people who have that power can step in and do something. And I think that just even the support of a casual listener is important.

Right, I imagine also for the families, there's a community. Have you witnessed? a community kind of come forward of people who've had?

Yeah, I mean, in both cases, there have been people in. There's people in both families, Florence and Joseph, who have band together and have been the people on the ground. Doing all the work, actively investigating, making calls, recording stuff, you know, putting pressure on people. They've been doing that since day one, they've had a lot more challenges. Because they also are dealing with the fact that anything they say and do out in the open may potentially impact their life where they live. Because it's a small place. And I think that u.s. Being there and telling this story on a bigger scale has, for some people, made them a little more confident in being able to talk more openly and feeling like it's not just their responsibility.

You already touched a little bit on some previews, but what can we expect from the next installment coming in June?

In the next installment, you're going to hear a lot of interviews with different persons of interest. And we are fortunate. We're fortunate enough to have the ability to go back in time. Thanks to a lot of the hard work put in by the private investigator Annie Clamser and other private investigators who have gone. And, you know, eight years ago, went and did audio video recordings with individuals that really capture a moment in time and are a locked in story. That they've said. And we have the ability now to hear all this stuff and we'll play it for you and compare it to what they're saying now. And be able to really dig into a unlike Florence's case, a massive, massive case file that has been put together through the family and the private investigators. And add to that and compare what was being said then and now, and much more easily find where somebody may be lying. Or that thing that everyone always thought was a little weird and suspicious. Well, it definitely is, because you never heard this. And it'll be a lot of that and a lot more active investigating, and the same with Florence's case. And one of the other reasons that we chose to do the break is that, you know, going in episode one of the first part. That was the first time we announced this podcast. Once we did that, everyone in the community and the people who are a part of these cases, they know that.

Amazing, I can't wait. I have so many specific questions that I won't get into. Because I know they're going to show up in the first couple episodes of the next season. So I will just wait like everyone else. Can you share with our listeners what else is on the horizon in the future coming from the up and vantage team?

I know that everyone's waiting till June for the next installment of eight episodes, which is coming sooner than you think. It's. Time flies. But in the meantime, the same Up and Vantage team has been working on another case. And another podcast that's coming out April 17th, it's called Status Untraced. It's a very bizarre, sad, interesting story about someone who was traveling abroad and went missing and a lot of suspicious circumstances there.

At the northern edge of India, attracting thousands of tourists every year, is the Parvati Valley. Many come for the beauty of the Himalayas, others to party, but then there are some drawn in search of enlightenment, and this place changes them.

There are stories from that part of the world where they'll say, like, Oh, the person didn't come back because they didn't want to come back. Just to create a story and a scene, he threw all his stuff along the river and then he just vanished.

The phenomenon, called India syndrome, could be chalked up to the valley's spiritual allure. But something else is going on here. There's a string of disappearances, many foreigners, and nearly all of the cases unsolved.

Bruno Musialik, a Polish national, is missing.

Odetta Houghton, 24, from Canberra, Australia, were mercilessly beaten to death, said he befriended a baba shortly after Ian disappeared.

That valley is beautiful and enchanting, but it's very dangerous, nefarious things happen there.

I fell upon one of these cases of an American world traveler gone missing. The circumstances of his disappearance were suspicious. So I flew halfway around the world in search of answers, and what I found I could have never imagined.

You could read his posts about the guru, he knew this guy was bad news, the guy getting hung out of nowhere makes you go. There's something else, you think he's like robbing them and then taking the stuff, he's basically murdering them.

A new investigative podcast from the team Behind Up and Vanished. This is status Untraced coming April 17th on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

PAYne, Thank you so much for your time. I, like everyone else listening, cannot wait for the next installment to come out in June. This is an ongoing real-time investigation, so if you have any information about either of these cases, please reach out to the show.

Up and Vanished In The Midnight Sun is a production of Tunderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Payne Lindsey. The show is written by Payne Lindsey with additional assistance from Mike Rooney. Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsey. lead producer is Mike Rooney, along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner.