Jake Johnson Returns
2023-09-04 02:14:02
Hi, I’m Dax Shepard, and I love talking to people. I am endlessly fascinated by the messiness of being human, and I find people who are vulnerable and honest about their struggles and shortcomings to be incredibly sexy. I invite you to join me as I explore other people’s stories. We will celebrate, above all, the challenges and setbacks that ultimately lead to growth and betterment. What qualifies me for such an endeavor? More than a decade of sobriety, a degree in Anthropology and four years of improv training. I will attempt to discover human “truths” without any laboratory work, clinical trials or data collection. I will be, in the great tradition of 16th-century scientists, an Armchair Expert.
Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard. I'm joined by Mr. Monica Padman.
Hello there.
We have a returning guest today.
Yes, he was early days.
And one of my favorites. I told him that, and I very much was sincere about that. I found him to be so fun the first time we talked to him, and then equally fun this time.
Yes.
Jake Johnson.
He changed the show, fundamentally.
Foundationally, fundamentally, he changed the show. He is an actor, a filmmaker, new girl, Minx, Spider-Man, Let's Be Cops, Drinking Buddies, the whole thing. He has a new podcast right now that is very, very fun. It's called We're Here to Help with Jake Johnson and Gareth Reynolds, and they're not great at help, which is what makes it-.
Yeah, they give kind of like, not bad, well, bad advice sort of, but advice that your uncle would give you.
Buddy advice from the bar.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's fun.
It's incredibly entertaining. So please enjoy Jake Johnson, but before you go, I would like to announce the October prompts for Armchair Anonymous.
We have four coming your way. First one.
If you're in the service industry, tell us a story.
Service industry nightmare.
Yeah.
Service industry nightmares. I don't want to limit it to nightmares. It could also be incredible. Someone could have tipped you $10,000 because they won or something.
Exactly. Craziest story from the service industry. Yes. This is not an invitation, if you are not in the service industry, to tell us a bad story about service.
Correct. This is from a service provider. Yeah. Like AT&T or Verizon or T-Mobile.
Or a server at a restaurant.
Comcast. Yes. Okay. Number two, crazy teacher or principal stories. Again.
Again, you're the teacher or the principal. You're not the student. That would be crazy student stories. That's right. These are very confusing.
Story about a real life encounter with Dax or Monica that you think is crazy. Yes. This is very scary. I want to say this was your idea. Dax is really worried.
Yes.
Yeah. Let's give some context. My assumption is that these stories are going to be mostly from people who we know, who want to tell a funny story about us.
Oh, right.
Okay.
And that's for the audience.
Well, for the audience, then they get to hear funny stories about us that we might not tell on our own.
Okay. Right.
Okay. And you're worried that this is going to get you canceled because of a sexual-.
Well, I think it might be someone I may love to, Mike. Which is, I guess, fine. Let's listen to that.
I mean, we probably won't pick you. I'm sorry. If it was good. No, I still don't think we need to sit through that. I don't think that's going to get picked.
I'm warning now.
Okay. Regardless, story about Dax or Monica from real life.
Who do you hope writes in? Aaron?
Oh, man. No, I'd rather hear a blast from the past.
Yeah, me too. Like an old teacher.
Like a high school. Yeah, teacher high school.
Oh, my God. Do you think my hot teacher will call?
By the way, this could combine two things. I could be someone's nightmare service experience. I could be a principal's nightmare.
Oh, my God. It's true.
Or yours could be the teacher story. Oh. Hot for teacher. This is a long intro. Okay.
Number four, an extremely generous act of hospitality that you received. Again, just for context, this was a prompt that someone suggested after I told the Boston Airport story, where we were taken in by strangers and shown great hospitality. So if you have a story like that, where you were really fucked and then someone showed you an extreme generous act of hospitality.
Please share.
Please share. Longest prompts ever. Love it. Please enjoy Jake Johnson. He's an object man.
He's an object man.
He's an object man. Do you recall this?
I'm putting it all together. I'm having memories.
Sense memories.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a while ago. It was a very long time ago.
You're for sure, one of my favorite guests we've ever had. Oh, thanks. I weirdly thought, optimistically somehow, that one thing would have led to like some regular check-ins. Like, that's how much I enjoyed it. Me too.
Okay, good.
Well, I had a really funny thing about you, because I didn't know what this was. You guys were kind of first in my eyes in the podcast world. And I think it was Spider-Man. And I was just doing press and they said, like, do you want to go to Dax's house and talk to Dax? And I told you, I've been a fan.
So I was like, yeah.
Which is hard to believe, but yes.
And I was like, sure, we'll just do bits.
Yeah.
And then we sit down and I was not prepared for the tone.
Yeah. Vulnerability forward.
We did a lot of dad stuff, right?
We walked in and you go, we have something in common. And I thought you were going to do like a silly voice. And you're like, our dad's weird.
And I was like, oh, homeboy's doing his research.
He's taking this shit seriously.
And he's really interested in the childhood trauma. Wasn't he a ground leaner or something? His background's in comedy, isn't it?
It was a wake up call to what you guys were doing. And obviously you guys have proven it, but you guys had started a path that is now becoming a thing. But for me, in 2018, I didn't see it. Right. I was like, we're up in his garage.
What fun. When you're talking about like lifting weights in your garage, I have a gym in my garage.
Oh, you got to.
I thought this was like Midwest shit. Yeah. We're going to hang out, do some bits. Maybe you'll release it.
Maybe not. Who knows? Who knows? Maybe we'll forget. we even released them.
Before we get too far, I do owe a big thank you to you. We bring it up a lot on this show, but it's very important that I say it to you. You're the reason that this seating arrangement is the way the seating arrangement is. You probably don't remember this, but I obviously do. I used to sit there.
I do remember. And it was a lot of this.
Exactly. And you said in the middle of the interview, I don't like this. I can't see her. Can we rearrange this? And so we did.
We must've pulled up that chair or something. It was your episode.
Why do I remember that you've said that about someone else too? No?
Only you. Only you.
No, no, no. I'm not saying that to throw you under the bus.
By the way, even if you do, it feels good. I'm 100% with you.
Maybe it was someone who said, why aren't you in the picture? Some other person.
Mike.
Sure.
Mike sure was the first one that was like, hey, get in the picture. It would be you and Mike, of course. Yeah. A couple of good guys.
Hollywood. I'll tell you where that comes from. just in terms of our business. I had been in a lot of pitches, especially when I was coming up, and you would notice certain executives wouldn't look at you. I don't know if you've ever had that, but if you're with like a heavy hitter and you're like, I'm fucking excited about them too.
But we came up with this. That's a legit friend. Like I get it. We're all excited blanks in the room.
Yeah.
And then some executives are looking around and I would be in the section of the pitch where I'm like, well, if you like the Jerry character, let me tell you about Bob. And I'm like, how? about a little eye contact? And I'd be like, mother fucker, that's brutal.
No, but it changed the whole vibe of the show, I think. And I really credit you and thank you for that.
Cool.
Yeah. First of all, it was just very cool of you. But also it made clear one of the debates we were having. Because we would go like, well, why does some guest pretend Monica's not even there? Is it a female thing?
Is it my status? Because they know who I am first. All this debate about it. And we never thought, well, just it's logistically impossible to look at both of us.
It's sad when it's simple.
Yeah, I know.
Because I know when I came here, I was like, yeah, I'm going to come and talk to Dan. And I was like, okay, cool. This is a whole thing. I remember thinking, this is tricky because I'm icing you out. But I don't mean to.
But this, especially with like my body type, when your body pairs, you don't want to be like.
Hold on, hold on.
Homie's taking photos and you're like, no, no, I'm going forward.
You have to somehow bend over and touch your toes to look at Monica. And take your shirt off. For some reason, you can't see her if you don't take your shirt off.
It was whiplash. You'd have to like jolt around.
We could paint it as like an altruistic act. But I also think it was just out of preservation of your neck. I think you were like also.
It was actually a physical thing. Yeah. Well, congrats to you. You've killed it. Thanks.
You guys have created a whole thing. It's nice to see.
I love saying this. She's building the house across the street from our house.
Is that true?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big, beautiful house.
No kidding.
I know. Isn't that great?
How did this all start for you?
I came out for acting. Okay. And then I started nannying for them.
Okay. And what year?
I came out in 2010..
Okay.
But you got to add, starts taking classes at UCB. Sure. Theater major in Georgia.
And 2010 was huge at UCB.
Yeah. I mean, that, it was like. That was the peak. It's hyped.
Yeah, right on Franklin.
100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's so sad to see it now.
It's a whole different era.
And it really is.
Although, I just drove by there the other day and there was a fucking line. They're doing stuff. Yeah, yeah. What happened?
But even just apart from that place, what I'm starting to love about our business, and I'm finally accepting it at 45, is every five years there's going to be a major shakeup.
Yeah.
And if you don't see that as fun, this isn't the game. Totally. What a great perspective. But even what you were saying outside, where you said like, I was almost quitting, I'd been done. Yeah.
And then you got a new charge.
Well, really quick. You go, you're jacked.
I was like, you're a monster.
Ultimate compliment. Like a gargoyle.
You're hideous.
You're a monster.
You scare children. Thank you. Thank you.
You're veiny and disgusting.
I go, well, yeah. You know, I work out and I bang testosterone. You go, you're on testosterone. I go, yeah, I've been at it for six years. And then I said, one of the things that was good about it is I was retiring.
And then it made me hungry to like, start this with you and start acting kind of too much. And then I enjoyed it.
But those dips, I had that in the pandemic. When it first started, I thought, oh, thank fucking God, I'm done. Right. You go like, easy out. Easy out.
What a weird game we all got into.
They mercied us.
Yeah, but now it's over. Yes. Like, it's really fun. You love it. Now, deep down, you're like, what a fucking nightmare.
This has to end. Yes. And then, when you see an out, you go, this isn't even quitting. I'm not a quitter. I've just naturally gotten 50 pounds fatter and like moved somewhere else.
Shaved your head in the middle of it.
I did shave it in the middle of the pandemic.
Yeah, I just saw a photo of it. Incredible.
But then there's like a turn and something kicks in and you go like, all right, I guess I'm going to try to adjust with the times. I guess I'm going to play. And then something kicks in or it doesn't, but you go like, I guess I'm still fired up.
Yeah. And do you think that's generally, are you brought back online by seeing something, or just it strikes you?
The chess of this whole business, the gamemanship of it, the like staying up late and thinking, the strategizing. Yes. The like, oh, I'm doing this. What if I did that? And then failing, feels really good for me.
Like, I hate it, but I love it. I'm a gambler. So I realized deep down, the reason I stopped going to casinos is I'm not playing poker to win. I'm playing until I hit a moment that it's 4 a.m. And I have no chips and I go like, ah, tens.
Yeah.
Oh, you're fucking. And then I'm like, I'm in a hoodie. I'm 41..
It's Tuesday. Yeah, I'm at Commerce.
That's where the moment hit me. And I'm sitting at now, an empty table, regrouping. Oh, it's this feeling I like. That feeling of like, fuck. Now, if I'm going to grind back, how do I do it?
That's what I like. You know, my old man had a thing. He was talking about business, and he goes, no matter how successful you get, when I look back, I look at the drive up as the best years of my life. And the beauty of our business is every sand castle we build, it gets knocked down in a couple of years. That's true.
Even if it was enormous, it just fades into memory.
And then, once it fades, when people are like, oh, that was great. What'd you do that 30 years ago? You're like, six months, homie.
So, when you get tired for me, I'm like, I think I'm done. And then something happens where I'm like, all right, I'll try to build another sand castle. I guess it's fun.
Yeah, that is so true. And I too love the kind of strategizing. And you are just like this one man business, right? You're just like, you're the product, right? And you're like, how am I going to revamp this thing?
And then you'll feel, when, like the town's, not excited about you.
Oh yeah.
And then you'll feel when the town is. And when you realize that doesn't do anything for your inner feelings. I saw that Taylor Swift doc, she's a killer. Early on in it, she was saying how the crowd telling her she was good meant a lot to her. Yeah.
I wish I had more of that. Cause you're like, if that's your validation and it's filling you up, you're going to keep going better and better and better. Yes. And so I don't really have that thing, but what's really fun is to see where I'm like, Ooh, Jakey, Jay's not having a hot moment. Is there something I can build to get that momentum back, as if it's poker, just to have more chips.
Yes.
But when it's really going down, I still have the like, Ooh, okay, fine.
No, that's wonderful.
Jakey Jay's in a low void.
We're at the nadir. Is this the bottom?
At this event. And I'm like talking to one friend and no press is coming our way.
You're like, Oh, fuck it. What a game, man. I do feel like part of this business is just a really weird fantasy. It is a dream. You said you moved out here.
Well, most of us moved out at a certain point with this really silly dream.
Oh, yeah. Delusional. Delusional. So much ego. Yes.
Limousines and cash.
I had a fantasy of like convertibles in a pool in the hills and being on a 90 sitcom. Yes. And being like, I just think all that's going to happen and it's going to work. And then you come out here and it's just not what you think it is, even when it's working. But it is still great, even when it's dog shit.
I have a thing where, you know, we can't talk about any projects, but I was doing like press for projects and I was doing a photo shoot, and I'm just done. I don't ever have to do this again. I never have to do a red carpet again. And then the woman who couldn't be nicer. We were in my backyard.
She goes like, do you want to put shoes on? And I realized, like, there's no thought anymore.
This was a Hollywood Reporter interview. I noticed you were barefoot.
I didn't think about it until Max Greenfield sends a text being like, hey, idiot, throw shoes on. You look terrible.
I feel like that's Max's cottage industry is he somehow hears of everything that's going on and then blasts you.
Well, he also does something. that's so annoying where it was me, him and Damon Wayans Jr. on the text. And so then I wrote, I didn't post about it because the strike happened. So how'd you find out?
Because there's so much content. So if anybody comes to you and goes like, hey, I saw that article and it's a slight nag. Why are you Googling me, my man?
I got an alert on you.
I'm not Googling you, my guy. Max, must have an alert on you and all his friends, maybe.
He's into it. You know what?
I might do my first Google alert and do it on Max, just so I can fuck with him back.
He is a shockingly funny guy. He'll go on runs where I'm like, that dude murders me.
He knows I'm sober. So I got the funniest text from him. It was like, when's Smartless launched? And they were overly kind to me as they were interviewing me about my place in this podcast world. He wrote me, he's like, well, I knew you'd be relapsing within a few weeks of that session.
of them stroking your ego, that bad.
I knew you'd be out. I was like, oh, it's so dark and funny.
How long have you been sober now? Well, I haven't drank.
I'm coming up on 19 years of having not drank or done cocaine. But I also have relapsed on opiates a few years back. Wow.
I had a really trippy thing. After my dad passed, we were going through all his old stuff. And I'll tell you what really hit was seeing his AA tokens. Yes. You know, there's certain things that you would see in.
my brother would be all emotional and you'd be like, you want these old shirts? And I'm like, fucking pass.
No emotion. Right.
I mean, he's old lighter. And I'm like, yeah, he smoked. Like, no, I don't feel anything. I'm not in the program, but I have some good friends who are seeing those. I'm like, oh, that's a really earned thing.
And you're like, that's actually pretty cool.
You know, what's so funny is when my dad died, same thing. I go into his place. he's staying at. And I'm like, what do I do with any of this stuff? You immediately become aware of the fact that all the stuff is meaningless unless you're there to care about it.
Now it's just a room full of junk. The only thing I took is he has this elephant. It's like carved little, I don't know what you call it.
Like jewelry box.
Jewelry box. Yeah. With a little elephant on top. And when you open it, it's all of his chips for like 26 years and multiples of some. And that's the only thing I took.
That's so weird. We both have that. But it's neat, because I wonder for you, him getting sober and staying sober, sponsoring guys and being of service. That was the one thing I couldn't even find anything negative to spin about it.
By the way, same. And the whole program.
Yes.
I love poking holes in programs. Yes. I love being like, that's an amazing opportunity. And it is very cultish. And I'm going to tell you why.
I'm glad you're getting spiritual healing. But, like, did you know the guy who runs? it was in jail for a night? Who cares, though?
Yes.
When you try to be a little piece of shit about AA, no one's paying. There's no top guy earning. So all my go-tos, just a self-sustaining thing that helps people. My buddy was walking me through it. And for no reason, I was trying to poke the hole in of like, well, if you relapse a lot and keep coming back, it's probably not great for the program.
Right. And he's like, no, that's not it. He's like, of course you can come back. We're here to try to help you. And I'm like, well, then, they must not be taking it.
And he's like, you're seeing it all wrong. And I'm like, I really am. I'm just being a piece of shit. Last minute straws. For no reason.
There's no value in this.
Well, no, there's a very clear reason. It's a group that you're not in. So naturally you have to debase it, because if it were of any value, you'd be in it. It's like the reverse Groucho Marx statement. I don't trust any group that wouldn't have me as a member.
That's sadly more accurate.
That's a great new spin on it. That's why I didn't like jocks. It's like jocks. I should have been invited right into that group. Cheerleaders?
Cheerleaders.
Monica? You can get yourself in there if you work hard enough. I probably could. You just didn't work for it. Were you a cheerleader?
Yeah.
No, I wasn't. Oh, you did like the cheer type stuff.
Oh, yeah. High fire.
No kidding.
Yeah, it was so fun. Highlight of my life.
And no fear of a massive neck injury.
No, which is fascinating, because I'm so fearful. I'm such a scared person, and now I can't even believe that I was fine with that. Just flipping around and trying stuff. Trying stuff means you crash, you know? But I was drunk on winning.
Yeah, you were drunk. It's cool. Bummed up.
Yeah, once you win once. What a blast. It really was a blast.
Doing key bumps of victory.
I mean, that is a good drug.
It is fun. Going back to where we were talking about the game, I got into jiu-jitsu in the last eight months.
Oh, really? What was the gateway to that?
Honestly, daughters, and I was Googling self-defense for smaller frames because there is something to be said about if I'm in a bad neighborhood. I do walk around at about 190 pounds and I did wrestle a lot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, unless there's a monster coming my way, I don't have a sense of utter panic.
Yeah, you get to the ground and you can survive.
I started thinking about them growing up, and one of my daughters is just small. They're twins? Twins. Fraternal. But I'm like, she's never going to be a monster.
Well, she might. Well, her personality. You got bumped up on tea. But I started Googling best self-defense for females. I thought it was going to be karate or some striking thing.
Handgun.
Well, obviously.
Yeah, Lady Remington.
But jiu-jitsu. Yeah. And it's all because you're just using the other person's body. And I was like, oh, that's neat. And so, we started doing it together, and then I've kind of gotten used to it.
Oh, great.
So, you do it with your daughter? Yeah. Because Kristen's been doing it with our 10-year-old for two years now. Oh, no way. Yeah, with Cecilina Gracie.
Oh, no way. She's granddaughter of the-.
The Gracie clan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And how are they liking it?
They fucking love it. And because it's a woman teaching all little girls, Kristen and two other moms and their two daughters. So, it's six, and they go every Monday to a friend's house and they train there. Cool. But your homework is like using your voice.
So, you got to come in next week and talk about how you're going to use your voice. Oh, no, thank you. I'd rather have a handshake. Things to like help you navigate all the weirdo dudes in the world that are going to try to put their hand up your ass when you're taking a photo.
It's cool stuff.
It is. It really is. It's really neat. Do your daughter love it? They do.
It's rough. So, we wrestle a lot and then there's just moments where a knee will come across and graze the face. You get hurt. They'll kind of give me a look and I'm pretending that they're not four, which is what your feelings are. And I'll just be like, that's why we're here.
That's the good stuff. But I'm like, I think if you push past, it's like when you go to cheerleading and you go like, well, you try something new, it hurts.
Yeah.
But when you land that motherfucker, it feels good.
Yes. Also, I've been noticing so clearly that when my daughters get hurt doing something they want to do, they don't give a flying fuck.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
When you get hurt doing something you didn't want to do, you hate it and it hurts.
Going off of that, who wants to learn to read? Who wants to work hard for something? So, I am in the phase of. I'm forcing them to do certain things that I'm like, I think you're going to eventually like this, but I'm not sure.
Yeah, I know.
It's hard to know. But it's hard, but you also only get 18 years.
Let's be honest, you might get really 15 and they totally stop listening to you. Yeah. I don't know how much advice you were taking at 15, but I certainly had shut down. I was done. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Me too. I think it was pre-puberty.
Wait, how old were they? Almost 10, nine and a half. Okay. That's a great age. So, they're right there.
If I go back to drinking, what we should do is get drunk one night and have our daughters fucking roll to a cage match in the backyard for our amusement. That would be a very 80s Midwest. You know, if we had two boys, we'd have them and they both box. We would certainly do that for our amusement.
Let's just see. See what your moves are.
But also the confidence. Lincoln said it multiple times. Like, well, I do jujitsu, so I'm good. She's been going on walks and stuff all around the neighborhood and like, are you scared? Well, no, I know jujitsu.
It matters. It does. It matters. And it's good to have that confidence.
I think that reads.
Yes, agreed.
That's the game anyways. You walk down a lot of streets. I've bought crack in a lot of neighborhoods.
Blackout.
It's this episode brought you. No, but it's true.
And you don't have to win. You just have to send the signal that I'm confident and you'll have your hands full. There's probably going to be easier. target. Literally.
That's all you're doing.
The same reason you get a dog. You could break in. this fucking annoying four legged thing is barking. Yeah. Nobody's barking across the street.
It's just a problem. You don't need.
Yeah. It's another variable. I do want to ask you about, because in that article, where you're barefoot, you've built yourself by hand and, eight by 12, cabin in your backyard. Yeah. Tell me from start to finish.
Did you just draw the plans yourself? Where'd you get this idea and how'd it turn out?
I grew up always doing. my mother had junk shops. So we were always in different shops around the city. We would get old furniture and fix it up. It was always my job to deliver it.
You know, some like funky furniture. And then we would hire random homeless guys in Chicago and that would be my group. Okay. And we would deliver together. And at 15, what a blast.
Yeah.
Some of the hardest funny people I've ever met are in the back of my mom's old truck. They go like, can Eve hear us? And I'll be like, feel free to go.
You're in a safe space.
Please let it rip my man. But it was always building. It was always making. And the part of this business, I directed a movie this last year. I'm going through a lot of that.
It's so much goddamn work. And in the end, the thing you have, it's not physical, even though it's film. I don't feel the way others feel. It's just like a memory for other people's experiences. And you work on set.
You're doing 10 hours a day, 12 hours. You're really grinding. And then it just kind of comes and goes. And it doesn't feel like a physical accomplishment. There's something about it from growing up doing what I did, where it was the physical thing.
That was something I was really missing. I hated doing manual labor. But I really liked doing manual labor because you were part of a group. You worked really hard. You were physically beat, but you had like three more hours.
Then, when you were done, you'd be like fucking two burritos, six beer. You're like, I get to now reward. You've earned it. And I don't feel like when I leave set and I'm like 11 hours, I'm like, I deserve.
I got to get these boots off. You're like, great day.
And I'm not discrediting it.
You're right. I was a roofer. My best friend Aaron and I would get off work and we'd be just fucking covered in filth. We'd pop in. We'd each get two 40s, an MGD, start drinking them in the truck on the way home.
And you'd get home and you'd take off all that crap. But I guess this is a disposition too. You felt like I earned whatever. the next three hours gives me. Guilt free.
And now that I'm 45, that's not partying the way I used to party. Even if it's just, I'm just going to sit and watch television. Yes. You're like, well, I need to do this because tomorrow I'm back in the sun doing blank. I don't have that if I'm like, I did a Zoom editing session for 10 hours.
With, like a super sweet guy who I like. And then we got some really intense notes from the studio.
We got pretty pessimistic for about 90 minutes, but we clawed our way out of it.
And then I'm like, man, we have a really nice relationship. I think this is a friend for life. And that executive I don't love, but I see what they see. I'm not like, I deserve a nice, chill night. The night goes on for me.
Then I'm up in the middle of the night watching dailies or, if it's right, you're back to work. And I really wanted something. where there was a mission, there was a job.
How, like nebulous, is finishing a movie or a script. You could choose to never, ever be done.
Well, that was the big thing I've learned with mine is that I'm not done with it. We just ran out of time. Yes. You know, I was like, can I do more? And, you know, the game was like, ha ha.
And I'm like, I'm saying in a playful tone, but we all know what we've profited. I will go backwards financially. A movie's good after a year and a half. Imagine it in three years. Yeah.
In 10 years, I might win an award for this.
There's a great story and it sucks because I've forgotten all the players in it. And I only know half the title, but I do know there's a very famous director. I think his movie was Sunset Boulevard or something. Does that ring a bell?
The name does. Yeah.
It's like one of these very famous 40s movies, or whatever. It's in one of these books I read. And then the person telling the story got a call from this director, who's now in his 80s. I need you to come over. He gets there and he's like, yeah, what is it?
He's like, come downstairs. I've just finished the perfect edit. He had been working on Sunset Boulevard 30 years after it came. And he finally, in his mind, got it.
That is it.
And that doesn't feel great always.
No, it's torture. It's torture.
But guess what? That's what we all sign up for. That's the game. And earlier, when I was saying, wouldn't it be nice to be done? It's done.
with that internal thing. You go like, I fucking left some shit on the table, and I know I did. That's probably because I'm not talented enough yet, but I might be. Just give me a little bit more time. And I don't have that with The Cabin.
My daughter and I just built a pavilion, her and I. That's why I'm so interested in this thing. Because she got the buzz that you could never explain. We had been working on it all fucking day long. And by the time we were done, we had the walls up and the roof.
We walked away. There was still stuff to do. For the next three hours, she was in such a great mood. And I go, do you feel that? You've got to focus.
You've got to be busy. And time's traveling in this wonderful way.
100%. To be ridiculous, it's a meditation. You don't go like, oh, there's going to be 240 screws. You just start. It happened pre-pandemic.
I wanted a rip and dip. God bless you. We are in the middle of it. Good for you.
Should we pause and do some? bench presses downstairs?
But it started pre-pandemic. I wanted like a little space to get out of the house. And I didn't want to go to an office. That'll never happen. And it'll be shameful to have like space in Altadena.
Yeah. Then I'm like, I put a pinball machine. It's very cool. And I'm like asking a friend to go with me. And they're like, I don't want to hang out in your dorky space and like compliment your aesthetic.
I thought we were having lunch.
Yeah, but just meet at my office. And then we'll head over.
And then you walk in. You go, I just threw these on the wall. And they're like, I don't care. I have my own spaces. I'm not that interested.
So I'm like, I know I don't want to do that. I don't even like it when my wife does it. And I love her.
Why do I care about what you're doing? You're like, wow, pretty cool. So these are all old pictures of Chicago. Yeah, these are black and white. But these will be changed.
Don't care. You see it in people's eyes as you're doing yours. And I'm like, I know you don't care. But for some reason, I got another three minutes. I got to finish.
So here's what's cool about these floors. And your friends just go like, oh, yeah, neat. There you go. It's still on it. But so I wanted to put one in my backyard.
And this was during the tiny house craze, which is not a craze, I think, is cool. I've never gotten it. I don't understand why you'd want to live in a tiny little space. But there was so much out there for the 8 to 12 size place. I just drew up on a piece of paper, laminated it, and then went to YouTube.
And had YouTube teach each phase. What? Yes. And I realized I've got pretty bad dyslexia. And part of it is hearing it.
So I have to put my hands in something to get it. All the years I did construction and you would have some thick old Chicago foreman who would explain to me and two other people how to do something. I wasn't hearing it. So it would be like, you know, that wasn't 8 by 12, Jake. So what you got to do is you got to go right through to 2 by 6..
You got to push in, Jack. And I'd go like, yep, yep. And then cracking jokes because you're not getting it. Yes. Then your work is shit.
So you have to crack a joke of why your work is bad, because you don't want to go, my work is bad. I think I have a learning challenge.
I don't understand.
I didn't understand one thing you said.
And you don't have that. So you're making eye contact with me and going like, hey, shit for brains.
And you're like, gone. I'm fucking gone. Some guy on YouTube would explain it. And then, in the middle of it, my brain would go to garbage town. And I'd go, let's play it back.
Go from the top.
Nobody's counting. And it just turned out to be like such a blast.
How long did it take you?
Probably about eight months. It was probably like a three-month job. But there was a lot of screw-ups, a lot of mistakes.
How many trips to Home Depot? That's the best.
Gnaw lumber.
Oh, that's your spot.
Well, during the pandemic, when it hit and everything shut down, I was like two months in. Oh, boy. I could still go get lumber.
Good hack.
Yeah. Yeah, I got a game. And then, when you're in it, it never wears off, right?
Well, I'm still always working on it. The fun game of it is you look at a wall and you go, you know, it could be neat here.
So it is like doing a movie.
Well, you get to keep evolving.
You turn it into a tiny house. Yeah.
My wife and I, if we're going to have a date night, there's the fantasy when you watch TV or if you're not an actor, you're not recognize at all what that date night is. But if she and I go out to a restaurant, it's just not the same intimacy as we expect. It's still a fun night, but it's not what it was when we first started dating. because other people are part of our experience. And so those nights are fine.
And my kids have made it very clear. They actually like when I get recognized. Oh, great. Yeah. So I don't have any of that like sensitivity about it.
But my wife and I've started to do if, like the kids, are out, we'll order in and go to that cabin and have a date in there. Oh. Because she never goes in there. Of course. So she's only in there on those nights.
And so then I get to like curate it. You get music. You get the food for the... That's cute. Right?
And so it's turned into that.
I want to be married to you. Doesn't that sound so...
It's very romantic. Yeah.
If you were there, this wouldn't be the tone. Remember the whole thing about the posters on the wall? Yeah. She's my friend I'm talking about.
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare.
I do want to go back, though, because we left it kind of hanging. So it's not the convertible in the pool, but it's awesome for a completely different reason. And we've like hinted at it, but it's really hanging with other folks who have the same weird fantasy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But even then, going to what we're doing right now, you know, I was talking to my brother coming here and we were talking about, like the changing landscape of the game. And I was thinking, it's just really trippy. I'm going back to Dax's house. We are doing an interview that'll get a lot of views.
And this has become part of the business. When I was here the last time, I did not view this as the business.
It wasn't, then. No.
There are certain times when, like YouTube started, everybody was making shorts. And then old timers were mad. And I remember when we were doing like Drunk History, the generation above us was like, none of you guys are getting paid. You're missing it. And for us, we were like, paid?
Yeah.
A bunch of us are in a backyard, man. It's a fucking blast. But the game then changes. And then everything's YouTube. now.
When someone starts doing something now, five, 10 years ago, I might have viewed it as more like whatever. Now I'm like, you might enter a 10 year period.
It's really tempting to think you were part of an era that ended. For instance, I was lucky enough. You were lucky enough. I did studio comedies. Totally.
You could go like, oh, well, there's no comedies anymore. And I'm so destroyed by that and that I'll never get to do that again. It's easy to get stuck there. There is no version where you're going to go do 24 episodes of network television again. But something really rad that other people will miss.
I loved that era of comedy. Yeah. Idiocracy, by the way, I saw a great thing about it where they were talking about the costume designer.
Oh, in the Crocs?
Yes.
Oh, wait, what?
If this is real, it's the best.
I think it's real. I know that when we all looked at those, we were like, oh, my God, what did it cost to invent these stupid.
Oh, no. So the costume designer was thinking of what would the dumbest of the dumb wear in the future? Oh, my God. And it was these ugly rubber shoes with holes in them and a strap on the back. And then the company happened to just explode.
Well, what's been really funny over the last five years is that Kristen's obsessed with them, as is everyone, right? Oh, they're cute.
They're very high fashion, right?
Not high fashion, whatever. Please give me the right adjective. But, you know, they're fashion. They're very wearable. My wife's wearing them.
They're very wearable. Yeah, they're very wearable.
They're pretty waterproof. Yeah. That's what I was going to say about them. But she's always been urging me. And, by the way, I need them all the time.
I'm like walking around a river and I don't know what to do about that. I honestly had forgotten why I have this aversion. And then I saw that episode and I was like, oh, my God. And I was reminded, yes, that is exactly what happened. Yes.
They came out like, look at these things. Yeah. So they're forever in my mind, is that. But I had forgotten that and couldn't figure out why I was so resistant to trying them. I've since got a black pair.
Me too. And I wear them in the water.
They're great. So I got in and my wife and kids had them and they were all talking about them. And I had them in the back of my head. And it might have also been generational. Yeah.
It might have been. when they came out, I was already too old. Yeah. But I just always wore like boots. And in that era, in the summer, I'd have like jeans and boots on like I was working and I wasn't working.
I was dressed like a dock worker at the time. And then I did throw those on and I thought, I get it.
Really? Oh, yeah. Okay. I'm not on board.
That's shocking, though.
Have you worn them? No.
That's the thing. What a child.
What a child. You're in the dark. Let's turn the goddamn lights on. So I was a hundred percent, no. And then my group got it.
And my daughter goes like, we'll get you a pair. I was thinking more like home slippers.
Yeah.
You know, cause they're easy on.
Like in the kitchen.
Then, all of a sudden, one day, you go to a restaurant and you do feel a moment of shame.
It's what Uggs also was.
Yes. That's right.
Similar situation.
But going back to that movie, those kinds of movies, which were so funny and so big at the time, they have gone away. Right. But I'm also like, who knows what's gone away? I won't do another network show. I don't want to do the 22,, 24..
And there was a whole period of time and I felt like we were all chasing it as actors, but, like you, do comedy to do drama. Right. But there was a whole model of what was cool. It used to be, you didn't do commercials. When I came up, my whole dream was the one day I pass on them.
Yeah. Yeah.
I would do commercials. Who cares? The whole old models don't matter.
Yeah. It used to be. you did movies. You couldn't do TV. If you did TV, you couldn't do movies.
Then that got blurry.
But then it keeps blurring. But I even feel that way. when we say this stuff about comedies. I'm like, who knows what's next?
Because, in many ways, Barbie, have you seen it?
Not yet, but I want it.
You're going to love it. I can feel it. I went with my girls on Sunday and I was laughing as hard as I've laughed in a movie in a decade.
That's a blast.
The send up of us is so fucking funny and embarrassing. And I think you two, I love the feeling of embarrassment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was cackling uncontrollably. But over the last few days, I'm like, well, why aren't I calling that a comedy?
That's a comedy. Exactly right. And it's a billion dollar comedy. I would have said a year ago, there'll not ever be a comedy that gets over 100 million again.
When you were talking about six years ago, when you wanted to quit and then you got fired up again. If you really think about, as an actor, what fires you up? Like when you moved out here and you were like, I want to get into the game. What is it you wanted to do? And I'm like, bits.
Yes, yes. That's it. I wanted to be in a room with people who I find really funny.
Who want to laugh their way through this tragedy that is human life.
And I want people watching it to laugh. And I didn't go to acting school. I don't care. I've got a friend now who's like trying to get me with his acting coach guru. And I'm like, I'm not going.
I'm just not interested. But if I'm cross covered and the person I'm with is on fire, I think, like, man, I got the best seat in the house. If that could be the job again, I went away from it for a while, where, you know, you just take gigs. But that's where it's fun, man.
Let's talk strike for one second, because you're actually the example I would use of when it's really heartbreaking, which is, you did spend presumably a year of your life directing something that's coming out in September. And you're obligated to not promote it. Do you accept that just lock stock?
I was disappointed. I do believe in the strike. I have seen the middle class of actors get murdered. It wasn't that way when I was coming up. So it does feel deeply unfair.
I did an episode of The Unit, David Mamet, a CBS show. I think I got paid $24,000 and then four years of residuals. So for one episode, I paid for my apartment. I had a life. And I have watched over the years, my character, actor friends, are dying.
And if you're not the brand, for lack of a cooler way of saying it, one and two on call sheets are getting paid still.
Your name's not above the title of the thing.
Yes, but you're getting paid still. Then I'm looking down and I'm starting to, when I'm talking to people who are deeper on that call sheet and hearing their numbers, I'm like, that's fucking garbage. You can't live. And so I am disappointed I don't get to promote it, but I also have a thing, and maybe I'm wrong on this, but I was doing press for this before and they said, like, do you feel more pressure on this than others? And what I really feel is each individual project, you feel like it really matters when you're in it, but it's all a novel.
And as long as I'm allowed in this game, it started with some stuff in like 2005 and it's hopefully going to end in X amount of more years. And this is just part of it. Those who are going to find it are going to find it. It's not an opening weekend movie. It's not like Oppenheimer, Barbie, my movie.
And so the way people find these things are someone's going to talk to somebody and it's going to spread and it will have a life. It's something I'm really proud of. I got hit in the face with that news. And then I thought like, well, that's the game, man.
That's so healthy.
I also read you say that the wins and the losses, they used to be kind of separated. They were wins and losses. And now they're just kind of one blob of a thing, right? Now I look back and I look at the whole experience and it's just like a nice mid-level. You average the whole thing out.
It's like we're above 51%, and I can live with that.
But I also have a thing in terms of the wins, losses, when you're in it, it's really confusing. So I did a show on ABC called Stumptown. It was a procedural. Coby Smulders was the lead. Michael Ealy was in it.
A guy named Cole was in it. It was just a really fun cast. We got along great. And this show came out, pandemic hit, went away, whatever. A net loss if you're an investor, and you invested in the pilot of Stumptown, which we all did.
You know, we got paid for two seasons, but it lost. Michael Ealy's wife reached out about making a little video for his birthday and was talking about his reaction when he and I text, and how much fun he had on set. And I remembered how many laughs I had with that fucking guy. How great Coby was as a lead and being like, oh, she is a fucking dream. And I'm like, no, that's a net win.
I really liked those people. The material I liked. I wasn't like, this is my dream thing. But even this movie.
It's not a year of your life you want back.
No, but also you make these projects and I have learned now some people are going to like them. Some people aren't. I could do a bunch of press. Some people are going to like it. Some people aren't.
It's true. I won't change their reaction.
And those who like it. I do have a base. It's not huge, but those people will go like, you. kept it weird for us, my man. And I'm like, well, it's what I like.
Yeah. Okay. So when you decided, first of all, I didn't know Gareth Reynolds. Yeah. Gareth is your co-host on.
We're Here to Help. So you have a podcast now. Yes. With Gareth, who wrote on Arrested Development and Flake and Hoops. Okay.
But you guys met.
Gareth was a guy I met in 2004.. Okay. And we were both improvisers. And he's truly, and I say this as a guy, we've maintained friendships throughout. He's one of the dumbest guys I've ever met.
But in terms of being like a great friend. Yes. Like we used to call him option one. And that is because he always says yes to the first option. So, like as a friend, it's really lovely.
Oh my God, that's great. He'd be like, all right, so you guys want to eat? And somebody would go, yeah. And I'll go, I mean, I got a box of cereal. here.
He goes, I love cereal. And you're like, let me finish.
I didn't even finish.
And so he had gotten into the podcast world for years. He does a thing called the dollar. That's big. It's how he's been making his money for years. He's been talking to me about doing a podcast for a while.
I've always seen the podcast world is something other. That's not what I do.
It's very foreign to you. Yeah.
And I learned it when I came here the first time. I was like, oh, motherfucker is doing his homework. I mean, you have a sheet of paper ahead of you.
Yeah, but it's just my credits.
But I mean that as, it's a mirror. I got to keep myself confident.
But like there's homework to be done. I know I'm not going to do that.
Right. You're not a homework guy. You're a YouTube guy.
Depending on the type of podcast.
Yeah. But I was talking for a while with somebody who was like a hero of mine and who reached out about doing a podcast where I'd interview different people. And I thought, like, man, really cool. I was really thinking about it. It was a couple of years ago.
And then it was like, you know, you get different people on and you could learn. And I was talking to one of the producers. I'm like, and so what, what I have to do? And they're like, you know, you just have to like, read the book of the person. And I went literally.
Pass.
Pass.
We were about to tell you how much money. I don't need to know.
What I also didn't want to do in terms of podcast is just get a bunch of friends and just fully bullshit. Stand-ups are doing a really good job with that where you're like, some of them are very good, but I don't want to do that. And then Gareth pitched me an idea and it was just something I thought like, all right, that's a fun enough premise. And I go, let's make 10 and I'll pay our producer out of pocket. If it's not fun, we'll never release it.
And then no harm, no fault. We're friends. And it was a dear Abby advice show. But our version of the advice is saying, if you had uncles, like I had uncle Eddie, nice call. They were always on my team.
They weren't necessarily right or good for you, but they're on your team.
Yes. Really quickly. Tell Monica about uncle Eddie coming to live with you when you were 15..
My uncle got arrested in Florida for, I still am not positive. Something about like stealing computers and they brought him back to Illinois. And so I was 14 or 15 at the time. And my mom said, my brother, who's wild, is going to come live with us. And I remembered we picked him up from jail.
Wow. And his first thing was, you got to tell everybody you fucking shit your pants. And I'd be like, totally. In order to get out of... When you're in jail, you're in the yard, you got to fucking act, crazy, man.
And I was like, absolutely. You know, from the suburbs. Believe me, I get it. When I'm at my very good public school, I will pretend to have shit in my pants too. But then Eddie came back, lived with us for a year.
That was still when I wasn't close to my dad. So I was really craving that thing. And he used to make neon signs and would sell them around Chicago. He would walk into a shop. He was a hell of a salesman.
And he would go like, you got a fucking beautiful fucking shop here, man, but you don't have advertising. Let me do it. The catch is his craftsmanship was dog shit. I would be with him, and he was so good at selling that somebody would be like, how much? He'd be, like, 800 bucks, I'll get the name.
I was his worker. I would be hanging it as a 15-year-old stoner. At that point, I was out of school. I dropped out for a little bit. Didn't you know that?
I don't remember that.
Took a little time. I would be hanging a sign up, and I would be thinking, this looks bad. You know when you're a kid and you're a worker, you don't really think. to question? I'd be like, first of all, it's a little crooked.
But I was like, the lettering's weird. I'd be like, the L-E, the M is really, and I'd go like, Eddie. And he'd go, shut the fuck up. And then, as the person saw it, we would literally have to run.
Oh, my god.
Oh, man. Oh, my god.
Was he bending the glass? He did everything.
He did.
Wow, that's kind of ingenious.
Yeah, I mean, he was a big part of the late 60s, acid, stonery, drug world. So that whole world was very cool to him. Yes. He was an incredible character.
And then he suggested to Jake at some point, you should do a betting pool.
Oh, the football pool. So this was while I was still in school. He goes, you got a lot of friends? And I was like, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I have friends.
I have humans. I talk to people. And he goes, let's do a thing together. You want to do a thing together? We both like the Bears.
I was like, I love the Bears. It's fun. He goes, let's do a football pool. And I go, cool. Didn't know anything about it.
Here's all you need to do. So he printed out every game and then a numbers, things like nine through one. You need to pick a winner, go nine through one, five bucks to play. Winner takes all. But say, tell them, you're going to take, like, you know, 5% for you.
So you don't want to lie to people. It's like, sure, who cares? Tell just my friends, you know, five people hear about it. Fucking thing spreads. So random people are coming up to me going, can I get one of those sheets?
At school. At school. So people are coming to me with their name, their sheet, and $5.. And it's happening fast.
Are you getting nervous as it starts? You're not. You feel great about it.
There's a part of my brain that's just utter dog shit. I can say this affectionately, but I know you can relate. There are moments I've been in where people are like.
I've been a criminal many times.
And they're like, did you not see the red flags? And I'm like, I swear to God, no. Looking back, I can rewrite it. At the time, I was like, no.
Also, I had a story about myself, which is like, I didn't have what I deserved. Like I grew up, broke and I deserved more. And if I got it, I didn't really care because I knew it was owed to me.
And this is mine now. Yes. I think mine was more. when your kids are young and they're all in preschool. All the kids are cute.
Then you're talking to some parent and you're like, that one's yours. And what you want to say is like, I hope they come around. I was like, I'll fucking block it. So at the end of the week, I have my memories around 600 bucks, but I don't know for sure. But a lot of money.
Enough money. where I thought like we're in good shape. Pre-internet. So Sunday, while the games are going on, I'm just writing everything down. We did not have Monday night at the time.
So, like back then, you'd have like three minutes for scores. You'd be like Jets, Giants.
So, Sunday night I go down to my uncle. He was in the basement and I go, Hey, Eddie. So I got all the scores and he was like, yeah. And I go, what's your system? Like, how do we do it?
And he goes, there's no fucking system. And I go, that's what I said. I go, what's that? He goes, there's no system. And I go, well, no, the nine through one.
I go like, I'm willing to do it. I just don't know what it means.
You're back on that framing crew, with the guy telling you to run a two by six.
Literally walk me through it. I'll do it all. I don't care. I like this. I'll do this every week.
This has been fun. And he goes, there's no system. And I had that moment where you realize like, oh, I'm in a world of shit. And I went like, huh? And then he goes, who do you trust at school?
And I go, who do I trust? And he goes, who has your back, no matter what? In retrospect, it was a really interesting moment, because you look at your crew differently.
Because it's probably not your best friend.
It wasn't my crew. There was a kid who ended up becoming a school social worker. Who I grew up with, a guy named AJ Gomberg, who was just one of those guys. I just trusted AJ. And he goes, call AJ.
Tell him you won the fucking pool. Shut your fucking mouth. I'm giving you 200 bucks and you keep the rest. And I went like, no, no. And he goes, there's no system.
So you could either tell everybody at school, you hustled them. Because you did it, not me. Or you can call AJ. So I called AJ Gomberg and I went like, hey, AJ, it's Jake. You won the pool.
He goes, I didn't win any games. I go, shut your fucking mouth.
I gave him the money and that was it.
Oh, my gosh.
When I was 15, my father, he hired me and my friend, J-Rob, to call up businesses. And ask if they wanted to take an ad out in this Hugs Not Drugs coffee table pamphlet. That would keep all kids off drugs. If we could just get this thing in circulation. And you could buy an ad.
We would call businesses. But we also called like an Elks Lodge. And they were like, okay, well, here's how it works for us. We do make charitable donations. But we decide at our Monday night dinner.
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