Jason Bateman Returns Again

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard, I'm joined by Monica Monsoon.

Don't, I, okay, the people can tell us, because I think we've been saying that.

I don't, do you remember that, Rob? Yeah, it was on a T-shirt.

Right, exactly.

It was on a T-shirt?

Yes, it was a real.

You were Dan Rathers and she was Monica Monsoon. Oh, I love it, you sound like, and I'm sure this is what I said last time, you sound like a meteorologist. Right. Like Dallas Rains, our local meteorologist. Yeah.

No, it's like a superhero, with the microphone.

Oh, yeah. And you, as Dan Rathers. I'm happy to rediscover it, I got just as excited at a whole new go-round. There's you wearing it. Oh, okay, I'm very hands in the cookie jar.

A little.

Kind of.

Yeah.

We like to talk about anatomy with him.

Sure.

Like, styles and preferences.

Oh, you were talking about yawning, which led to the whole thing. You'll hear it in the fact check.

You'll hear it all. Jason Bateman is here, my good friend, an actor, a director, a producer, and a podcast host. Of course, Ozark, Arrested Development, Horrible Bosses, The Change-Ups, Zootopia, and Smartless. We love Jason Bateman, he's so much fun. I'm so glad he came by again.

He's terrible and fun.

He's terrible and he's fun. Kind of true. Oh, but before we enjoy Jay Bate, we have some Armchair Anonymous prompts for March. Okay, get out your pen and your paper. Tell us about a time you cheated.

Think outside the box.

Absolutely, surprise us. Tell us about a time someone took the fall for you. Fall guy story, fall gal story. Tell us about a time you were in a cult.

Oh man, I can't wait for that one.

Now what I like is that a lot of the times on Armchair Anonymous, the stories we hear lead to new prompts.

Oh, New Year's Resolutions Gone Bad.

Yes, from New Year's Resolutions. Gone Bad, it prompted a cult prompt. So last, tell us a crazy amusement park story. So tell us about a time you cheated, tell us about a time someone took the fall for you, tell us about a time you were in a cult, or currently in a cult, and tell us a crazy amusement park story.

Amuse us.

Amuse us with a park story. Please enjoy Jason Bateman.

♪ He's an armchair experiment ♪.

♪ He's an armchair experiment ♪.

♪ He's an armchair experiment ♪.

Lonnie, nice sweater. Thank you, it's striped.

Hello.

Hi.

Good to see you, thanks so much for coming.

Well, that explains that it's striped.

Hey, did this get more cozy and magical?

Probably. Design? It just gets a richer and richer patina after every single interview.

Well, like the tchotchkes and the pictures.

and the sound bafflers and... Pintoukits and kerplunkits.

Definitely more art, since you've been here last, because you were here early days. Yeah, there wasn't even curtains, or... Oh my God.

Have I done this once or twice?

Twice, but once on Zoom.

This doesn't count.

Yeah, we don't count that.

That's a mulligan. You got a lot of stuff coming across the transom over there?

I don't get a lot of texts, so when I get one, I'm like, oh, someone likes me.

Would you want any olive oil in your coffee, or just black?

I would like just a men's.

Okay.

To use Arnett's line.

That's what he calls a black coffee?

Working backwards, you said, I have been here twice. Why does the one time not count?

Zoom doesn't count. COVID doesn't count.

When you were launching SmartLess, I think we were in the middle of COVID, and that's why we did it.

But it doesn't count.

And then this is just to keep things real.

Those aren't really actual, but that's just straight dressing.

Including the bugs on the tape. Don't look too close.

Oh, God, yeah, the bugs.

We came in one morning and that had all fallen. And there was like, when you were a kid in science class.

and you had to pin them all to some styrofoam. That's like a legit way to catch bugs. Isn't there, like duct tape?

It is. Little did we know, all one needs to do is just put duct tape everywhere.

It could be a side hustle. We could sell that on Amazon.

Armchair duct tape? That's funny. That was gonna be one of my jokes to Jason.

How many interviews have been through on this one?

Maybe don't do that. Fuck.

You know, I don't even think you're a borderline. You're a germophobe. a bit, yeah?

I'm not a germophobe. I'm a real keen gross detector. That's what it is. I'm not worried about getting sick. There's something undeniable about the contact of a moist hand against a moist hand or a sweaty car and a leg that doesn't have pants on it, right, like shorts against vinyl.

And I'm hearing a through line of moisture. Whenever moisture is present, are you most uncomfortable?

Somehow, I feel like that can be a conduit or conductor for germs to travel.

A delivery device.

Correct. Dry against dry, they stand no chance.

Well, we do know things do live better in dampness.

It's a cultivator. Is this where we left off last time about wiping? Well, it was, yeah. Not again. Of course, again.

We're more mature now.

But I actually was thinking about you this morning, about an hour ago, as I was emptying, going through my ritual. And I thought, boy, I wonder if we're gonna revisit this.

Oh my God, I thought about both of you also because I haven't gone yet.

Oh, you haven't?

That never happens.

But I bet you peed.

I did pee.

Okay, and a pee gets a front wipe. Women. And so then you should have thought, well, the only other male I know that does female wiping, i.e. fronting, is Dax Shepard. But we already covered it.

Wiping.

It makes fronting.

It makes a ton of sense for fronting. No, it makes a lot of sense for a woman. That was always my stance. Like, naturally, yes, you have an open area down there. But last we do not.

Which is why we avoid going around the obstacle and we just go rear.

Oh yeah, because the rear obstacle is so much tinier. You're saying your butt cheeks are smaller.

There's no obstacle back there.

Of course there is. You're wrestling with a toilet seat, your butt cheeks. You can't see anything. So you're trying to predict exactly where you're gonna enter.

You're avoiding the hassle of negotiating the butt cheeks by going around and lifting up your nards.

I hate that we're doing this again. But just kidding, because I don't think last time I actually was.

Listener, he's giving me a visual now.

What a negotiation that was.

You have to lift and-.

No, I just go to the side. I go into the crease between the testicle and the inner thigh.

So you don't use the other hand to get things out of the way?

No, I don't need to do that. Maybe at the beginning of this, before, I had my 10,000 hours. But now it's just very simple. And again, it's a scoop. And there's no contact with anything else but the rectum.

I'm not gonna try it.

That that's physiologically possible.

I think it's possible. I think it's-.

I want a real answer right now. What is the price tag? And I mean it sincerely. What would the dollar amount be for you? Just try.

I'll do it for free. I might even FaceTime you while I'm doing it.

Okay. I would love that.

Can we do it on the fact check?

Oh yeah, can we run a little video? We're against video, but in this case.

Speaking of what is the price, something that came up at dinner last night, I'm really surprised. The story did not pick up any traction. Just to get from ass wiping into- Geopolitics. Into politics, yeah. Did you see the 60 Minutes where Michael Lewis was on?

I didn't.

He just gave a fantastic interview. Remind us who Michael Lewis is. Michael Lewis is an author, the guy behind the big short, the book, Moneyball.

Wrote that incredible Vanity Fair article that started the big short.

Yeah, yeah. And then what's the film with Sandy Bullock? Blindside. Yep, so he was embedded with Sam Bankman-Fried for, I don't know, a year or something like that.

And that's the crazy crypto guy who just was found guilty of fraud. Correct. Not everyone's as elevated as you.

No, I know. Dinner table parties, some catering,

everyone up to speed.

Yes, so he's embedded with Sam Bankman-Fried writing a book on him. Obviously, this is before the guy was arrested. The basic theory or strategy of Sam Bankman-Fried was to gather as much money as possible and then redistribute that money into worthy causes. Financial altruism or something, he had some phrase for it. One of the things that he decided he should put the money towards as a good thing is to ask Donald Trump, what is his price to not run?

Oh, interesting.

And he reached them.

No.

He talked to the Donald Trump people, and I'm assuming the man himself, to ask, what's the number? What's it gonna take to not run? This is the original run. I think this is 2016,. yeah.

What part are you shocked at?

The media didn't say, oh my God, we almost averted disaster. This is not to sort of lionize Sam Bankman-Fried and said, oh, we screwed up. We let a hero go to jail. But certainly that move there would have been very heroic.

Well, listen, there's a lot there. One is just the notion of one guy deciding I can use everyone else's billions to sway a political election. Foundationally to democracy is interesting.

Well, I mean, he was assessing here's an existential crisis that I can avert by redistributing these funds for a good cause.

Other people's money. Yeah. Let's start with the fact that this wasn't his money. He didn't have $5 billion.

Yeah, but I mean, all money on the planet is everyone else's money. You grab a little of theirs and grab a little of theirs, and now it's mine. Okay. Right? They print money every once in a while, but it's basically the same stuff.

All I'm saying is you happen to agree with that particular cause, but I think it's pretty nuts that someone was entrusted with other people's money and decided that this was something he would use it for without informing the people whose money it was. There's a lot of conversations that could stem from that one at dinner.

Oh, right, because he was at that point managing other people's money.

He appointed himself a Robin Hood. Yes. Yes, that wasn't his money.

I don't know the details of this, but I think there were many, many packages of $5 billion. Some of it was his personal money, I think.

Probably some of it.

And then some smart folks at the dinner last night said, yeah, but we know Trump. Trump would take the 5 billion and run anyway.

Exactly. Totally.

That's what we're talking about. I didn't say anything.

And then do you think it is implied within that story that it would be 5 billion? this go around? Because I think the numbers definitely increased, right? In 16, it was still a shocker. Polling was not predicting that outcome, as we all remember.

No, there's no number anymore. He wants to get in office and destroy all his enemies. There's no price.

First things. first, though, pardon himself on multiple counts and stay out of jail.

Was this strategic now that we're competitors? Because we try to keep this apolitical. And then you came in, you put the most tasty morsel on the table. I apologize. So that we'll potentially alienate half of our audience.

Did we start?

Was this Machiavellian in design? And is it all about front wiping me? Because you may have lost that previous debate. Is that what all this twisted pathology is?

Listen, most of my friends, well, that's not true. I was gonna say most of my friends are Republican. How could that be true? Tons of people? because I play a lot of golf.

Oh, that makes sense.

Every once in a while we'll talk politics, but I don't give a shit about Republican versus Democrat. I really don't. Oh, let's put it this way. I don't know any MAGA Republicans. Those people I'd probably have a longer conversation with.

All humans, we'll start there. Where did you start and where do you think you're at now?

Politically?

Yeah, I'll go. first. I started as a libertarian and then, in 08, I was like, no, we need some massive oversight of the financial system. Then I was pretty darn progressive and liberal. And now I'm a stone cold centrist.

I'm definitely left. How center left or left left I am, I don't know. It's probably issue to issue. But just basically, I feel like my idea of what government could be, should be, is more in line with a Democrat point of view, in that I feel like government is a tool to help for the greater good. And I feel like perhaps the more Republican ethos is that government can be a useful tool for business.

Or national security.

Well, but that's the other thing. How come the Democrats lost the military? Why are you all of a sudden, if you're a Democrat, you hate the military and you can't wave a flag? How did we lose that?

Yeah, the Democrats did lose access to the American flag. Monica and I have talked about that.

Yeah, so I just feel like there's a difference in strategy or opinion about government. This comes from a very non-educated brain here about politics, but it just seems like that's kind of the big difference.

You just perfectly segued me into one of my other questions. I was hell bent on getting out of you today. So you just did it.

Capricorn. Really? Yeah, yeah.

That was a big discovery. this time. I don't know how I missed it on the previous two.

Yeah, you just need to Google my birthday.

and then you'll see my astrological sign. It's the first thing anyone could find out. Most cursory. look at you.

It adds up, it makes so much sense.

That is coming up too. Okay. It's really funny. You're good at this. You're really hot and great at this.

I got a lecture from my wife about that this morning.

Well, Amanda and I are often in lockstep.

Yeah, at the same dinner last night, we were talking about, you know.

Who'd you go to dinner?

I wanna know about this dinner.

This is just the regular Sunday gathering. We were talking about directing and actors and all this stuff. Someone asked me a quote, process question. How do I see? And I tend to just start to throw up in my own mouth when I start talking about what is important to me and how I do things, because I certainly start yakking when I hear someone else do it.

Okay, but I insist on delineating the difference between your process as an artist and your clear intellect. So one thing is quite pretentious, or potentially pretentious, and that's what you and I are both.

bristling against. Allergic to, yeah.

And I think we're both from pretty modest means. Where people like that that flexed in a prestige way got smacked down pretty handily. For me, it's linked to a real threat that if you come off as lofty and above other people, you're fighting the biggest guy in your class really quickly.

Yeah, you're just asking for it and they'll find you. They'll find a little hole and then you'll kind of start stammering and then you're done and you've lost credibility, at least to dicks like me who are paying attention. I'm like kind of waiting for those folks to like not be able to pull it off in every interview. You know? Right, right.

Great, I get it. But specifically, you're smart. Minimally, you're not smartless or a dum-dum. So you've gone really far to the extreme. There's one thing to not parade around.

Right.

It's like a license plate with your IQ number on it. And my apologies to him because he's phenomenal.

Yeah, but that's like self-hanging a target on your back.

Yes, but again, there's a very wide spectrum between dum-dum and smartless and 180 IQ. Why are you marching so hard towards- I'm not. Something that's actually, I would argue, is even a bigger offense, which is it's dishonest.

Well, smartless and dum-dum, I think, are in a different category, in that we're saying, look, we're gonna start from a base of whoever we're talking to, they know more about what we're asking them than we do. Otherwise, you wouldn't be asking them the question. So it's just the basic dynamic of an interview. As far as me, being insincerely modest, I'm not. I thirst to know as much as possible.

Were you called stupid? No. Okay, never.

And I'm gonna accept that, but I think we could go a layer deeper. So even the initial name of this podcast was the One Millionth Podcast, which was humorous at the time because there was 250,000 podcasts. Now, ironically, there's eight.

Wait, did that not clear? Why didn't you go with it?

Ah, ah, ah. You know you feel me, right? Yeah. And that is my low self-esteem and my fear of being ridiculed and made fun of that. I'm going to beat you to the punch.

I mean, I have to call out a big elephant in the room. Armchair Expert means smartless.

Right.

They mean the exact same thing.

You're some clown on a Barker lounger like you. two are right now, popping off with your hot take about X, Y, and Z, and you're being self-effacing. That's charming. It's warming. It's winning.

Okay, listen, great point, Monica. I concede it's a great point. You're in the lead right now, Bateman. But I have to point out my definition of armchair expert, which is not a Monday morning quarterback. It is, in its original definition, they were scientists.

but you have legit credentials. I don't have it in front of me.

Oh, no, don't make him say it.

I'm asking, no, I forget.

You are trying to sabotage us.

You have a degree in something and another thing in something else. Like I. just, every time I hear it, I guess I immediately pour cement over it because it's so threatening to me, but it's awesome. What is it again? Tell me, where'd you graduate from?

Anthropology. Anthropology.

Magna cum laude, I mean.

Oh, no.

But Monica, don't worry.

And he's all tatted up and he drives like old domestic fucking muscle cars and he tries to keep it so real with his fucking Chuck Taylors. But this guy can get through a book.

Listen, no, Monica's summa cum laude. I need you right now, okay? I can't be fighting both of you. I'm sorry.

But look at her. She looks washed. She's wearing a nice sweater and pants and shoes. I play the part. You assume she knows what she's talking about.

For sure, or say, like, bro, if you want me to fill it, you're at the wrong pump.

You got to move over one. You want that windshield washed.

That hose ain't going to stretch.

Yeah, and I think that that's a really interesting combo.

I think I understand it. And I'm admitting to you, I was going to do the Millionth Podcast because, I'm embarrassed, I'm late.

What does that make? Smart List? Because we were just drafting off of you.

Listen, and I think you and I have some of the stuff. And so, yes, the tattoos and the muscles, that's like Michigan playground, constantly in fear of getting my ass kicked by a guy three years older than me and sending the loudest message to the world. You're going to have your hands full. Pick someone else. I'm not even saying I'm the toughest.

I know.

I'm 49.. What kind of baggage do you think, you can at least laugh at yourself about, where you're like, oh my God, we're still doing this at 54..

You know, the thing, Monica, you asked me was I ever called stupid. I wasn't called stupid, but I was called stuck up by, like kids in fifth, sixth grade, seventh grade, when that was the worst thing you could say to somebody. And I was really sensitive about coming back into school after being away on set for a few months. Every year, that was kind of my routine. And so I would get sort of ostracized by the cool kids.

And can I add some behind the scenes? I will say your comedic persona is a bit acerbic. And for people who've never spent time with you personally, you genuinely are the softest stepping kindness, most engaging, you're asking a lot of questions, you're showing interest. Like I'm watching you navigate a whole week at Kimmel's place.

But a real asshole too, right?

Well, I don't see that. Here we go, here we go.

No, but you know, you and I can sit in the corner and fucking rip a party apart, you know, just mumbling to each other.

You know, you'd play tag and there's a porch. that's safety. Yeah. Or there's a source of oxygen. And you and I are occasionally popping into a corner and you're like, how damp was that hand?

Yeah, and we both know we don't mean it. We're just doing bits. We're playing the dick.

Yes, yes, yes.

Play the dick.

That's a great bit of advice. That should have been your answer. last night, when someone asked your process. I was trying to figure out what a dick would do. I run right at it.

By the way, the other thing I was thinking about on the way over here is that Smartless is just another one of your children that you've gone without fathering. Because you've got children all over the country you don't even know about, right? So you gave spawn to this podcast.

You meant like physical children.

Yeah, you fathered Smartless.

That's very kind, Dax, you should take that.

It's a thousand percent true. You were our first guest. Because of that, we kind of sarcastically said during COVID, because Will and Sean and I were staying in contact via Zoom and you guys had just gotten that very deserving huge deal. And we were like, fuck, let's go get some of that Dax money. And so we kind of jokingly, you know, and shockingly people listened and it lasted longer than COVID.

Oh, my God, my pleasure. And people are curious, naturally, all the time. Are you now upset that you have this kind of competitor? that are your three friends? And I can say really genuinely, and Monica and I have a very similar answer, I think, which is when you entered, there were a couple million podcasts and there were many, many famous people giving it a go.

Tell me, because I will say that not sort of mutually kind, of blowing each other,

but should we get into a 69 position? Yeah, let's just scissor this.

But truly, this is not being falsely modest. I honestly think what you guys do is much more difficult. A, you're doing two-hour episodes and you're doing multiple ones a week, okay, which takes a lot of research, a lot of patience, a lot of work, ethic. We're doing it one hour a week and we talk for five minutes. And then we bring on a triple A-list guest, which, not to take anything away from, say, any of the nighttime talk shows that have been on for years and years and years.

Well, listen, that's hugely flattering and thank you for all those things. And you pretty much isolated exactly what my thing is. So the only bits of jealousy I've had is the cumulative relationships you guys have to getting guests. I'll scroll through your thing and I'm like, fuck. It just happened this morning.

Yeah, she was awesome.

I have no contact to her. I don't know how to get to her. And then you have Ruffalo.

But there's three of us. The chances are that one of the three of us know the person, have met the person, or might even be friends with the person, or this person has something they're promoting and they got to do one of our podcasts and either you guys are booked or someone else. We get a lot of incoming, as I'm sure you guys do as well.

Now, as I'm sure, right, you guys do too. But if there's been any... Sorry, I'm getting emotional now.

That's my favorite kind of crying, by the way. It's a dude that's just...

Just like clearing your throat. Trying to keep it down. Anne, I didn't come here to...

Yeah, it's so good. For the guys who don't know how to cry, that's a great strategy. Just make it part of your character.

Or Bob Dursett from the Jinx, just as you're starting to get emotional, just start burping. Remember that at the end? Burping. I would love to see an actor pull that off. in a movie.

Becky.

Ew!

You can fake burp. I can pretty easily.

Can I hear it? Let me set the scenario. Hold on, I'm Doug. I'm your coworker and partner in a business. You just found out I stole all the money.

Hey, Doug, I was looking through some of your paperwork and I... Excuse me. I noticed that you...

Oh, that was so good.

So that's easy. What's very difficult...

Hold on, can we go a little deeper in the scene?

There's two things an actor needs to be able to do. if they want to call themselves great. It's being able to... Actually, there's three things. Believably sneeze.

Let's hear that.

Believably yawn. And the double take.

I noticed waking up hasn't made your list and I was just watching a show last night and someone had to wake up and I was like, almost no one does it correctly. And you have to wake up more than you would think you do as an actor in scenes.

The big thing is having a director that gives you the time to wake up. believably. Yes, that's fair. They want you to just sort of like blink a couple times, rub your eyes with your fists, and up you go.

And see your phone perfectly and read the bad news and react. Right. All right, go back to the list. It was sneezing, yawning, and the double take. So there's no auditory component to the...

Yeah, there's a, what the... A, what the with the ellipses.

What in the...

I can't do it.

Let's have a sneeze off. This could be fun, because we've never got to act together. And now Monica will be the audience. And this will be kind of like a Monoey Mono showdown.

I would make the choice. Well, here, I'll show you. So, Dax, it's such a pleasure.

That was a good choice.

That was really good. And he already took it. So now I'm painted it. This is just like when you're listening to someone audition in a room, and I just heard Bateman chose the internal sneeze. So I'm now painted into a corner and I'm doing this cold...

Dax also did the same thing on the burp, if you remember, right? There was a...

Yeah. All right. Hey, Jay, what are you cooking in here? Smells like you are using a lot of... Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.

Okay. Thanks very much.

We have your availabilities and we will be in touch. Oh no, I didn't even get it. Yeah.

The beginning was too... You were shocked by it.

Okay, you're right. Let's go again. Okay, let's go again.

Oh, you're cooking breakfast? Yeah, sure am.

Oh, my God, that looks great. That does not look good. Yeah, it's a little salt, a little pepper. Is that a little pepper? Yeah, I can...

What the...

Mm. You okay? You used pepper in there?

Yeah, you sneezed right in the pan.

I'm trying to get a pepper joke and the sneeze. It's too much stuff.

You gotta front load the pepper and then sneeze. You gotta establish the pepper to the listener.

Yeah.

Okay, then let's do yawn, and I insist on going first this time, because you, obviously, it's one zero, Jason Bateman.

Sorry.

No wonder you're in air and I'm not. All right, here. we go. You ready? Yeah.

Morning.

Oh my gosh. I didn't fucking...

Yeah. See, here's...

Uh-oh. There's no... Heavy notes. It's been a while since I acted.

The real yawn starts as sort of like a regular yawn, and then the real one goes extra deep in the second half.

Fuck, okay, let's see it.

This is not gonna be good because it's very...

Hopefully it's worse than mine.

See, right there, you can tell I'm just spreading my mouth.

You don't have it.

There's a deeper reach in the real yawn that goes down.

You didn't get there.

You can make yourself yawn if you...

If you see somebody, yawn. Monica, let's see one.

Let's see one, you're an actor. Yeah, I know, it's very high pressure.

Here we go. It's not great for radio, by the way.

Hey, Monty, how are you?

No, I don't wanna do an acting. I just wanna see if I can make myself yawn. If you make the back of your throat like this.

I can do a real yawn, actually.

Yeah.

I don't know why I didn't choose to do a real yawn.

Right, you could always go regular.

No.

I can't.

It looks like you were stroking.

That's how I look when I yawn. Now I'm in a debate with the director, where it's like, you didn't blank, and I'm like, well, that is how I do it in real life.

Doubt it. See, this is where I start fighting with the actor.

Can I talk to you for a second?

Guys, let's take a tight five.

Dex.

Oh, my God.

I forgot you were in Air. I already forgot that.

You did? I loved Air.

I didn't. You do a great job with that.

Well, you know, they're my boyfriends.

Yeah? Oh yeah. Both of them.

Both. Yeah, they're my boyfriends. I know.

I've taken numerous runs at forcing her to pick. Literally, it's like asking you to pick between your two daughters. I mean, I will pick Matt.

You will pick, Matt.

God, you give it up for him.

No, I've told you that in real life for marriage.

I feel so betrayed by this whole interview. For marriage, we've talked about it.

You said my acting sucked.

You just gave him the answer I've been trying to get for nine years. This is a betrayal. Are you joining the cast of Smart List? Get a fourth body in there?

Why do you feel Matt would be a better choice?

Only for marriage. That's the only thing I'm picking.

I got you.

We're playing marriage, fuck, kill.

Yes. Who am I killing? That's right, fuck, Ben. Who's the third?

You're gonna fuck Ben.

Well, she's killing Dax. That's happened.

No. We haven't picked a third player.

Yeah, we need a third player.

Dax Shepard.

Yeah, kill.

No, well then, no.

It's just whoever we throw is a sacrificial lamb.

I'm already married to him.

Right.

The third is a sacrificial lamb, because we already know she's fucking Ben and marrying Matt. So it's like, who do you want her to kill? Trump, there you go. You're so political.

Let's go, let's play him in the middle. Wait, did you see that in my eyes? I didn't say that. But how about how great a job he did with that film?

Hold on, I think we could really challenge her right now. Ryan Gosling, Ben, Matt.

I'd love him, but I would kill Gosling.

Okay, well, it's not that hard.

They're just my number ones.

How would you kill Ryan? With his roller skates?

Sexual. Fuck him to death. Yeah, exactly.

Sexually.

It's a loophole. Fuck him into extinction.

Yeah, but that movie, I was proud of him for that, because making a movie that sort of suspenseful and compelling, and it's just about a business deal, one that we know how it ends.

Jaws never shows up. We don't have Michael Jordan in the film.

Well, until, the way he constructed that, until the end, and it's archival footage when Matt's landing the plane there with that big speech, and it's so impactful where they flash forward and you're seeing this footage of him.

So you're right, you get some archival, but we don't have the big man. Although, how could he have? It's a period piece, and he certainly doesn't look 28 anymore.

Right. You could have hired an actor to play him.

Too iconic.

Yeah, exactly. Ben was like, no, that'd bump you out of the movie.

Yeah.

Yet. No, we don't need the yet or the, but. You're a Capricorn too, aren't you?

Well, we do, or it's over.

You're a Capricorn as well.

Yes, and that honestly answered the hugest mystery to me today, or yesterday, when I learned you were a Capricorn, because we have a friend, Erica. Erica is beautiful. She's incredibly intelligent. She's super competent, which is, I think, the most attractive thing a human being can be. We have anti-chemistry.

That's sexual tension.

Nope. I'm telling you, it is.

In fact, you're a predator. Sex tench.

It is not sex tench. You've observed it. You would agree. I would agree. The least amount of chemistry with Erica, and having nothing to do with her metrics.

I do. They're the people I get along best with. Really? Look at how well you and I vibe. We get each other right from the jump.

We vibe so well, yet we're not best friends, and that's a great curiosity to me. I aired it last time, and I keep making this awkward, putting you in this position. We don't need to be, because we see each other and it's explosive and we've got a lot to catch up on. I like it.

One of my oldest best friends.

Leif Garrett?

No, is born a day after me, Steve Whitting, January 15th. Okay. And we don't spend a lot of time together at all. We talk half a dozen times a year.

Semi-annually?

Yeah, by the way, I'm like that with everybody, but if I need some real sit-down, competent, let's get real, I need you, all of you right now. Yeah, he's your guy. It's Capricorns that I go to.

Wow, and do you put any, we just evaluated our own scores, and I'm gonna ask you, so zero is it's hogwash, 10 is you're making all life decisions based on your astrological chart. Where do you put yourself in there?

Oh, I'm about a three or a four.

That's pretty good. And Monica was a-.

It's pretty common for Capricorns.

Did you say you were a five going to 6.5?.

Yeah, well, we did a hundred. We did a scale of a hundred, so it was a little, but yeah, I think I said I was a 46, but I'm gonna get to 60..

And she was a two like a year and a half ago.

I think Capricorns will look at astrological forecasts or the daily fortune as a confirmation to what they already feel and already know. That's great. As opposed to looking for some sort of thing they can defer to and like, what's it gonna be? What's it? Oh, thank God, they said that.

And skepticism is part of Capricorns.

Well, I was gonna say, Monica, I'm asking, what I do think you and I have in common, and probably why we were immediately drawn to directing is. I'm incredibly decisive for all my faults. And sometimes that is a fault, but I'm never curious about what my opinion is ever. Are you?

That's my sort of kryptonite as well is. I'm so buttoned up and prepared and responsible about opportunities of leadership that when it's time to make a decision, I've usually done the requisite work and therefore I don't stumble into a decision. So if somebody has a different idea, it's got a real high bar to jump over, such that I can seem like I'm not really that collaborative.

Cause you've really thought it through.

Yeah. And also I'm a big believer in, unless your idea is better, you're being disruptive, because different is worth exploring, but we might not have the time for that exercise.

Let's also add, and this will sound arrogant, but it is the truth, which is a movie is, in its best form, a director's point of view and tone. And although a different suggestion might be better in that moment, it would violate what ultimately the goal is, which is some consistency in vision and tone. So you're kind of comparing apples and oranges, sometimes with suggestions.

I mean, look, you're sitting in a movie theater. The person to your left is going to want the ending to be different than the person on your right. Neither one is right. Neither one is wrong. It's personal preference.

It's not called Neapolitan, this film.

Unless it is.

Right. Unless it is.

But if those ideas are coming in as a better version of what I'm trying to go for.

Of chocolate, and you want chocolate. Right.

Then it's like, oh, thank you. That's so helpful because the note is coming from them trying to recommend or suggest something that might further what they think I'm trying to go for. That's really helpful.

We have a great metaphor here now for directing, because it really is. It's like, if your suggestion can make my chocolate dish chocolatier, let's party. But if you want it to be strawberry, I can't help you. Yeah.

And it's not wrong. I mean, a strawberry would be a great way to go, but it's just not the way I'm driving. And you have no idea what my plans are for the scene. that follows this that we're shooting in five weeks. Mine's going to make more sense then, but I don't have time to walk you through that.

Right. Should we collab on a book called?

It's called shut the-.

31 Flavors of Directing. The Pictures of Ice Cream.

I feel like Mamet's already done that.

Also, can you imagine Christopher Nolan cruising through a bookstore and seeing our co-authored book on directing, the deep belly laugh he would have? or Fincher saw this book that you and I had the audacity to put out?

Man, those guys are good.

But with our mutual hangups, we would title it like how not to direct, to get us out of all the crisis.

Right, exactly.

How to be a shitty director.

How to direct like an idiot.

But how does that work on Smart List, then? Do you guys ever have, we just had a creative difference.

One of three in six years.

They're very rare.

Was it about a certain guest? About whether we should have a certain guest? No, but we have had-.

We have those. I wouldn't call those creative differences, though.

Yeah, it was a small thing about how much to keep at the top of the episode. It was really small. And ultimately-.

There's a bunch of off mic stuff, which we have a lot of and I like it. It adds a little flavor. It's become a bit of a fingerprint to the show and I like it. But in this certain case, I thought it had gone on way too long and I was saying, if I were listening, I would either skip the head or I just got impatient to hear the good audio. So it wasn't even like what was being said that I was critical of.

And ultimately we did agree, I think.

This is in the editing process?

We had already released it. And then we went in and shortened, got it ultimately.

But it wasn't really a creative difference, but we thought it was a creative difference.

We wanted to be.

And it got hot, huh?

It didn't. We get hot, though. We get fights.

It actually demonstrated a lot of our growth, because three years ago, we would have not talked to each other for two weeks. We would have continued to do the show. And pretended. And we would have been good in the fact check, but there would have been zero communication. Personally.

It was rough. But those were mainly like, they got personal.

Or we. We were upset with each other personally. Yeah, we felt personally attacked by the creative differences at the beginning.

So you guys are three equals. I mean, to be fair, it's Dax's show and I'm co-hosting that.

It's our show.

It's our show, but we have different jobs here. And you guys don't. Does that ever get hard?

It hasn't gotten hard yet, because we're very, very aware of that. We go through everything trying to avoid what could bring down the show, which is a fight. We would be okay about what you guys did. I just sort of like kept things quiet, kept doing the show. But the three of us, we'd talk about it on air and it would probably go further.

If you and Arnett ever had any dustups in your very long friendship? Oh God, yeah. What's the arc of those things? Is there a period of silence? Is there any yelling ever?

No, we're very soft with one another. We both know how sensitive we both are. And Sean too. We're all real soft and chewy inside. Yeah.

I just know. you and Arnett have been inseparable since Arrested.

We love each other to death. We both know what's the big button or 12 that we have, that we could press, that we don't. And if we ever get lazy and we do lean on one of those buttons, that's when we'll get mad at one another, because we both know that we know each other's soft spots. Yeah, exactly. If you hit that, it's like, buddy, that's fucking lazy.

Yeah.

It feels extra cruel, because it's not like they stumbled into it unwittingly. Right. Have you ever screamed at each other?

No, I don't think so. The only relationship that I think can really weather something that emotional and that challenging is Amanda.

Marriage.

Yeah, we live together.

For 24,. how long have you been married now?

20, yeah, something like that.

Something crazy, I read, I wrote it down.

I'm not an advocate for fighting, but I do feel that a certain level of real, intense argument at times can be a bit of a compliment to the relationship, because this is something I know we can bear. I can go a layer deeper with you about what it is I'm feeling upset about. I don't need to pad it. This is efficient for us to be able to go this hard, this clear. You know, we're in couples therapy every once in a while, and that's a dangerous place to be if you don't feel like the other person can handle the truth.

Do you two watch couples therapy? No. Do you watch this?

What's that? Stationism.

Oh my God. It's originally a show, it's on 13 at 8 p.m. Don't miss it, there's no other way to see it.

Where is it, on the Nile?

It's a Showtime show.

Paramount, I mean, Showtime, thank you.

Is it a reality?

It's a reality show about this wonderful therapist, Orna, and it's real couples, and I would say what's proprietary about it is there's multiple couples going at once, right? So it's not like you're stuck with any one person. Any episode may have three sets of couples, and then 10 episodes, you're tracking their entire 10 weeks of therapy.

And they know they're being filmed?

Oh yeah, it's incredible. It's one of the most fascinating shows we've ever seen. We're obsessed. And everyone we know that watches it is completely obsessed.

Sounds very uncomfortable. It is.

But comforting to all the points you're just making.

Because you're not as fucked up as them?

Well, yeah, that would be the easiest way to say it, but in reality, what you're forced to recognize is it is hard for two human beings to come together and cohabitate and compromise and try to live a shared life. It's fucking brutal. So if anything else, it just goes, oh yeah, man, give yourself a break. It's not easy. There is no relationship on planet Earth where both people want the same amount of sex.