Phil Heath (professional bodybuilder)
2024-04-25 02:05:09
Hi, I’m Dax Shepard, and I love talking to people. I am endlessly fascinated by the messiness of being human, and I find people who are vulnerable and honest about their struggles and shortcomings to be incredibly sexy. I invite you to join me as I explore other people’s stories. We will celebrate, above all, the challenges and setbacks that ultimately lead to growth and betterment. What qualifies me for such an endeavor? More than a decade of sobriety, a degree in Anthropology and four years of improv training. I will attempt to discover human “truths” without any laboratory work, clinical trials or data collection. I will be, in the great tradition of 16th-century scientists, an Armchair Expert.
Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert experts on expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Monica Padman. Hi, rare one today. bodybuilding, bodybuilding. boy Kumail and Rob McElhenney have got to be all ears for this.
I hope so. if they don't listen to this episode, our friendships over. Oh, no. Okay. I feel like I should side text.
You might need to, because it won't be the real test. I need it to be if I text them. Yeah, Phil Heath, I would imagine a lot of armchairs. They've never heard that. yeah, which is funny, because he's very much a Jordan.
in his given sport, Which is bodybuilding, Phil Heath is a professional bodybuilder who has won the mr. Olympia seven times, Which is crazy. There's two eights and then there's him. Yeah, pretty cool, the eighth, Of course, I talk about endlessly on. here.
He comes up so much. We're gonna have to interview him as well.
Ronnie Coleman. Ronnie Coleman.
It was actually fun to hear Phil have so many thoughts about Ronnie Coleman, But at any rate, Phil Heath has a new documentary out now called breaking Olympia, which is the Phil Heath story, Fascinating tale. you'll hear a bunch of it here today and Enjoy the pictures. Just really go through those pictures and try to comprehend how tiny your boy looks next to Phil Heath and me. You're in danger. It is very nice, yeah, I didn't feel in danger.
No, he was a sweetheart. He was very nice to my children, please. Enjoy Phil Heath.
I'm from Michigan. So, okay. We just moved there.
So no, originally from Seattle, my wife's, originally from the Bay Area, so we live in Royal Oak? no way. Yeah. Oh my god.
Yeah, that's about the coolest place. Yeah.
Right there near Birmingham, have you tried Coney dogs? yet? I haven't tried it. You have it. Oh, you got a hole.
Always keep driving by it.
Are there lines and stuff? always there's so many, Monica. Well, you were there. number McDonald's by like 10. There's religions.
You're either a national person or you're a Lafayette person. Got it.
No, that's, that's dope man, you're, Mike. is there anything else you'd like? no, this is great.
You don't want coffee. My wife just told me I'm too skinned out already. She's like, yeah, no more.
But also that's kind of a role. It's kind of astounding to watch you guys work. You're a team. Yes, and half of her day is preparing your insane diet regimen. Yeah, which makes sense.
You guys have a family business and part of it is like how many calories a day, to be quite honest?
I stopped counting. I just go by the meal, because I think when you start having this number like oh, I eat 6,000 calories a day, that becomes very daunting. I think, yeah, Yeah, When you just say this is the meal, this many grams of carbs, this many grams of protein is just a lot easier.
You say in the doc that you were eating every two hours. Yeah, every two, two and a half hours.
I was eating, so depending on what time I woke up, I went to bed. it could be up to eight times, and how much at a time, the most. between protein and Carbs, a pound and a half your plate would be a pound and a pound and a half between those two.
So how many grams of protein, like 75 grams per meal times? seven? Oh, my goodness, right, so obviously your fiancee, are you married?
No, we're married now. So in the doc, when it was filmed, we were engaged and had been for quite a while, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, We were engaged over six years. I know that for sure.
So it was too long.
Do you think the doc it all shamed you into like, all right, I got a fucking good day.
No, not at all. It was. it was having an ex-wife. That's what made it quite difficult. So anyone that has been married before that has that quote unquote baggage.
You kind of are like, let's just tread lightly on this. I'm being fair to my ex. I don't need to bash or anything like that, because I expect her not to do that to me. But you know, you just want to have things to be cool. And eventually we realized like just go, get married.
You're like I'm not wasting any more time. Well, there is some merit to not getting married now. I say that as someone who's been married for a while, but we were interviewing Goldie Hawn recently, And you know her and Kurt Russell. they never got married. Oh, they didn't know.
they're not married. Boyfriend, girlfriend, they've been together at the time We interviewed. was it maybe 30 years at that point? and I even said to her do you think if you had been married you would? Have gotten divorced at some points?
and she's like, yes, so in some weird way There is a little merit to not getting married, because then you can just have a really shitty patch And you don't have to like get divorced. It doesn't feel. it's so existential.
Like. well, now I got to make this big, huge life decision, like a divorce, Yeah.
Cuz, you're married and when you're having shitty times, as all couples do, you start going like. and now this is for the rest of My life. so you add the extra layer. Yes,
It really is unnecessary, and you're more married to the state than to each other.
Well, I'll tell you a funny one really quick. So when my wife and I got married, I at the time had more money than her in the bank, And I'm nuts about money. Like I grew up, broke, and it's a thing. I don't have a healthy relationship with it. She goes would you want a prenup?
in my mind? I'm like, yeah, I want a fucking prenup, so bad. But then I go no, I don't want a prenup. got married, then jokes on her, cuz she got in frozen and all of a sudden She's got way more money.
You just don't know. it is interesting, though, I think it scares people. now, you know, I talked to some younger adults. It's not even on their radar. They don't even care.
I mean, they're trying to screw everybody, like these dating apps and stuff. I get that part because I can only imagine if I was living that life. There's no such thing as delayed gratification for someone under 30 years old right now.
No, for us that are over 30, delayed gratification is worth it. Ironically. Yes, in every single sector of your life, Yeah, there's this one you go like. no, This should be super easy and immediate and then work out if it would be easy. everybody be a champion.
But then you would have nothing to look forward to. and within bodybuilding, You may feel great after that first workout, Even if you got your ass kicked, but I don't look as strong as Phil Heath or like Arnold Schwarzenegger. When is that gonna happen? And I think that's why some people revert it back to those negative patterns that have purchased the January 1st.
Membership. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the resolutions are starting to.
Evaporate, then it really comes down to a deeper conviction. Recognizing like okay. This pattern does not serve me. I need to really submit and say you know what enough is enough, whether it be alcohol, whether it be sex, drugs, Gambling, whatever, it is just being angry. This does not serve this person who I claim and declare.
I'm going to be.
Yeah, that's the rough part. Like an AA, we say I got sick of people judging me for my actions and not my intentions. Yeah, you can say you're whoever you are, but we kind of have the results. Didn't show up for work three days in a row and you've been blacked out for a while. Let's go back because we have some similarities you and I single mom.
How old were your parents when? so my parents divorced around three same Wow.
So we were on our own for a little bit, your brothers and sisters. No, I was raised as an only child. I still remember I was in an apartment. Something happened. Obviously, there was a nasty argument, and I remember being with my mom in a guest bedroom.
She was just crying. She was just rocking me to sleep. She's singing. I think she's singing to herself more than she's singing to me, and I never saw that place again after that day. So once morning came, I guess we just left, yeah.
So at least it's alluded to in the doc, and both of our dads have died prematurely and around the same time, 14 for you.
Yeah, it'll be 10 years on the 29th, but alcoholism is in the mix.
Yeah, by the way, your dad's way better looking than my dad, but my dad had fucking rhythm. He made moves like he drove a Corvette. Oh, Girls liked him and your dad was a fucking Fox. Thanks.
I.
Need to say your father is much better-looking. your father is fucking 10.
It's so funny because when you're dating and I share pictures of my father with my now wife, She's like wow, like he's really handsome. And then her mom got quiet. Her parents are still together. My father-in-law's like, yeah.
But he looked like a movie star, Like he's always dapper. He just had style and he would be the one that would always make sure. like if I'm dressed up for an event pocket squares Got to be on point, cufflinks, everything. He'd be the one rocking Lucchesi's snakeskin boots, like he had it all. Yeah, going on.
what brought them to Seattle. So my mom grew up in a little town called Zachary, Louisiana. My dad was from Dallas Fort Worth area, So probably just a more liberal town, but no military, because no end up in there, because the Navy maybe? yeah, usually, but I just believe Everybody just wanted a different start deep south. There was obviously racism.
I mean all kind of shit was going on. My stepfather was from place called Huntsville, Alabama. He's going on 91, So that means he was born in 1933.. Come on the things that he probably had to see in Alabama. He watched all Jim Crow come up.
So they all were like, let's go up north. Let's go further west, Let's just get the hell out of here. And in fact, when we were filming breaking Olympia, you have to go through like all your old effects. So I was able to find old pictures of my biological parents to think that they were partying like in the 70s. You think, oh, they're just with a bunch of black folks.
It's like no, no, no, it was like all races in Seattle. So I think it was more safe. Everybody just felt comfortable. Yeah, way more liberal. I think that's probably why they moved there and what they do for a living there.
so my mom worked in cargo services for a company called Sealand at the time. that later changed names into horizon line CSX lines. They got acquired by Mattson. She started off as a clerk, worked all the way up to upper-level management. Let's be honest.
minority woman telling Longshoremen at the port what to do. So she would work late night, on Wednesdays and Fridays, because those were the days that those ships had to leave. So she worked at the port of Tacoma, Washington. So those containers. she would have to make sure that whatever's coming in proper manifest, whatever's going out.
She would wait until the last container got on that barge. so she carried herself with a lot of pride and respect and Accountability, because those are things that have to get to where they're supposed to be. and being an entrepreneur You know I had a supplement company along with my wife you learn when you get product and they're supposed to go to Europe or Asia? Who is doing those things? you learn about real deadlines?
Like. I think I gotta get this project done.
It's like no in the next few weeks, and it doesn't matter about your feelings either. So her having a deadline and having to effectively communicate with people that may not like the way she looks and let's be honest, There's plenty of males that don't like taking directions.
From a female plenty's being generous.
Well, you've got misogyny, but then you also just have we've all been raised by moms. Yeah, don't tell me what to do and like triggers some weird. your mother's telling you what to do. I just have to tell you, cuz my mom's inside visiting right now. so my mom started when she left my dad night shift janitor at General Motors and Then worked your way up into the fleet, then became a manager of all the fleet.
same exact shit. How do you deal with all the dude? I'm like living in parallel universe.
And the amount of shit she had to take and also be a boss and how to play the fucking game. there you go. Oh, man, you got to do your job. Perfect. And then you got a deal with every dude hitting on you.
That's just part of every other thing you're dealing with. What were her nights like when she got home?
Was she just quiet? Well, she had TV, or was it like a drink?
Well, this is what I was gonna ask you about. So I had a lot of stepdads, so it's usually coming home or the stepdad was supposed to pick her up. We only have one car, but he's blocked out. He's abusive. So we got an abusive dude in the house.
We got a baby. There's three of us. I'm writing about it right now. I don't know how that woman kept moving forward, probably because you guys, what was your stepdad scenario?
Like my stepdad, worked at a NBC affiliate. So he worked at King 5 in Seattle, Washington. He was a TV engineer that was back in the day, Obviously, when you had like 30 people in a news station, but he worked in the control room. He worked behind the cameras. He did all that stuff.
How old were you when he came on the scene? I was three and a half.
Okay,
so really quick. after almost like right away in fact my mom and my stepdad met at a going away party for a mutual friend, and My cousin was supposed to look after me and got called in for work, And so she told my now stepdad, like hey, I can't come. he was like, I'll bring him.
TV and stuff. He's like, he'll be fine. And then I guess they just hit it off. next thing, You know, I remember seeing a piece of luggage and like a bunch of Safeway bags, like brown paper bags, And those were my clothes. We didn't have much.
and I'm like, I guess this is where we're living now, Not right away, but I'm only three, so I can only remember the snippets. I think she chose the best Responsible adult that she could hang with party with. I mean he was much older than her. though by how much older a lot, 17 as an adult. now, I'm like damn mom.
Well, but again, it sounds like she had your best interest very much in mind.
Maybe she wanted to be taken care of in a way, her being a career woman.
She admired a man who had his stuff together, you know, they could create more abundance Financially, which they both did. he respected my mom. I saw them argue, but never physical. They did both drink quite a bit, So mom did to. mom came home every night drinking a Manhattan on the rocks, watching days of our lives, you know, on VHS.
Set her timer to record it. Then there's a time change.
I learned pretty quick. alcohol was always in the house. for me. It was more. That's what adults do, That's not what kids do, and so later on, when I would have friends over, they'd be like to Paris keep beer in the fridge In the garage, let's go snag one.
I'm like, I'm like getting to my ass beat. What are you talking about? I think because it was that accessible. the Jack Daniels was in the linen closet next to the car keys. It was ever-present.
Yeah, so everything was cool.
Did you delineate some difference between dad and mom and stepdads drinking when you would go to your dad's on the weekend, by comparison?
Was dad's drinking more out of control than mom's, it's hard to say, because he didn't do it really in front of me. Oh, that's nice. He did smoke cigarettes and that was always fucking annoying in the car, too, right? Yeah, like after dinner mint. he was saying, you know, like after dinner mint sign.
Okay, so that means he's going out. But he didn't really do it in the car much because he probably did a couple times. My mom was like flipping out on him. I give my mom. I said that credit cuz.
they both smoked Cigarettes and I don't recall them ever needing to go do a patch or anything. They just stopped. So they were responsible to a degree. I mean that was back in a day. The bar was low.
Come on, You could drive after drinking a pitcher or two of beer. We used to go to a fish joint called skippers in Seattle. So it'd be like Long John Silver's high quality And they would just continually bring over a pitcher of beer. and I always, Like pears, would just laugh louder and louder as a kid. You're just happy because you're like, okay, everything's cool.
Getting home and my ass is asleep. I mean I get in the backseat of the car. I'm out. I'm the first person on the plane before they even decide to offer drinks. I'm out, right?
That's weirdly telling about your childhood. That doesn't mean you felt safe. Yeah, I feel safe.
They didn't give me a reason not to. there was no car wrecks. There was none of that. Yeah, none of those, Do you eyes? there's none of that real wreckage?
No, if anything, it was just them enjoying each other's company, Maybe being a little too loud, but I lived in a house where they debate, debate, debate on everything. So you're gonna get loud? Yeah. Yeah, I'm just gonna get loud. So my stepdad's friends would come over, and you know, we watched the fights back in the day.
You watched Mike Tyson fight watching pay-per-view. Everything was loud. So Being in a silent house was like what's that? Well, when I'm watching the doc, which, by the way, I loved breaking Olympia.
Remind everyone and I watch it with my ten-year-old who you just met. Oh, man, and she fucking loved it. Oh, she did. I want to meet you. She don't want to meet anyone.
Wow, everyone's in here. She's only asked to meet a few people and she wanted to meet you. She loved it. I loved it. But I am trying to.
I'm trying to figure out how this is an answer to something. in childhood, this pursuit My first instinct would be because I have this big chip on my shoulder, which is again violent stepdads. I feel in danger a lot. I want to grow up and get big and get tough and I want to be able to defend myself. I'm scared a lot.
So I'm hearing about your school and I'm like, well, there's a little bit of a clue. similar thing, Like just a very violent Yeah town and people fighting non-stop. where you went to school, Rainier Rainier Beach, was the high school that some people that were in.
More affluent communities would be like you went there, right? Little context. we were playing basketball against Seattle prep. So fancy, right? We play them at home.
They're a private school, but they're now asking the Seattle Public School System to fund Buses for all their fans to come to watch us play, and their superintendents like why should we supply you buses when you guys Just drive there. They said, oh, because after we beat them, we don't want them vandalizing our nice vehicles. Oh, could you imagine him saying this in the Seattle Times? So my coach, Mike Mathia, shout out to Mike Mathia. He still is the team he went to state with.
Oh, yeah, Coach Mathia also works at Boeing. I still remember it, man. We're getting ready for practice. He comes in with the newspaper. coach Mathia.
God bless him, man. But he was one of those guys at that time. We called him Bobby Mike, as in Bobby night. Yeah. Yeah, he let it rip.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, so you don't know what you're gonna get.
Right, oh, there's layoffs at Boeing. Oh man, we're gonna run today. I'm in the real world. Yeah, so he's got this newspaper. Heath read this shit and I'm reading and I'm like what the fuck?
Yeah, they really said this.
Well, I would be offended and be like you're probably right, too.
So here's the thing about that. we weren't like that.
We'd fuck our own shit. But no, it just would not happen. So I remember, looking at everybody on the team, I'm like, what do y'all want to do about it? I kick the shit out of these guys. now I still remember we beat him by 33 points.
Oh, And it was a known thing in the community like don't do nothing, just whoop their ass and just wave out. I'm saying get the fuck out of here. That was so gratifying. But at the same time that was the high school I went to. people look down upon us.
They didn't expect us to become anything. Well, you had a shooting and a dance. Yep, first high school dance, friends brother got shot in the face six times, about 12 yards away from me. Obviously, that's catastrophic. You're not supposed to see these type of things in real life.
innocence gone, right?
It's not like you can file it into. well, that'll never happen again. No, it's reality.
Yeah, cops in that moment were allowing those two kids to fight, thinking Disagreement, knuckle up, we're good, because that's what everybody says online, Like why can't they just knuckle up and just be done with it, catch a fade and let him move on? No, the kid came back, got into it again, The guy got the best of them and now it's the embarrassment, because everybody's laughing. Yeah, there's nothing more dangerous. That embarrassment obviously did a number on him and he decided to take matters into his own hands, and it was scary as hell. but the problem was during that you freeze and Then you turn and run and then you realize you're banging on someone's car as they're driving off.
I mean, why was I thinking that they would stop and say come on in, they're like, no.
We're getting the hell out of this parking lot. We're going to skippers. We're gonna deep-fried fish.
no shit, and then you're trying to run your ass off and then to go to a Person is working off-duty security at a local Safeway and they're like what the fuck you want me to do.
Wait a minute, so your security, you're not gonna do anything like. what do you want me to do? It's over. Oh, my god, you would think, okay. Someone's gonna rat this guy out.
The justice system is gonna figure this out. Oh, no, the streets figure that out within a week. So that dude got shot. Oh, of course, It's just those things that you learn very quick. Life is not what you think it is, dude.
Okay. Now, you and I have this in common too. So we see Conan the Barbarian. It's life-altering for me. I don't know that whole thing exists.
I see him pushing that wooden wheel around. Oh, Did you have fear at that time? Did that look appealing to you? In a way that I could be safe if I look like that, not growing up, growing up?
It was more just fascinating over the fact that this guy looked like a freaking superhero. My thing was more focused on Basketball, you know what? I really loved growing up was those action films with martial arts.
Oh sure, blood sport and above the law, dude, you know, Van Damme compete as a bodybuilder at one point.
That doesn't surprise me. You know Sean Connery did too. He won. Mr. Universe in the 60s, or something like that.
Mr Europe, or something Van Damme was like, mr. Belgium, or something like that. Mr. Belvedere. Well, you know my favorite Jean-Claude Van Damme film other than blood, sport and kickboxer.
You got those two was no retreat. No surrender. Have you seen that? Yes, He was the villain. the first scene of him walking in a dojo and just demoralizing that sensei.
And I was like this dude is for real that slicked back hair.
Uh-huh.
I looked at that and was like I got to take karate lessons. cuz, if you got to go get someone like that one day, You're fucked. and back then Karate Kid was a big film. Oh, yeah, we all these fantasies.
We would learn some thing and then we'd be invincible, growing up in Seattle, Washington, especially during the 80s.
You had to know martial arts. You wanted to learn it. Yeah, because of Bruce Lee influence, because he went to Universal Washington. all that I remember. my mom and I, once we split from my father, moved in with my stepdad being a new kid on the block.
I mean, you're gonna get tested. I got my ass whooped, like the first week, and my stepdad was like, uh-uh, that's not happening. back in a day, You know, you come home with a bloody nose or something. your dad, let alone your guardian. They're not gonna tolerate this because they know that this has to end.
Yeah, it'll keep happening. It's gonna keep happening and they teach you. so he grabbed me by my shirt. He walked me down two blocks and knocked on this guy's door, and that became my new sensei that afternoon. And I'm glad that that happened because it taught me respect bowing before you enter the dojo, taking your shoes off, knowing how to be still and know how to meditate, and just being able to exercise this controlled aggression through whether it be katas, which are forms, and sparring, and knowing that your intention through sparring isn't always to Obviously kill the opponent that you're practicing with, and you knew that whoever Wasn't in your class.
They would always say don't practice this at home with your friends. Mm-hmm, right, so they taught you respect, and that's how I grew up. So then, later on with basketball, I was taught that controlled aggression. But then I had a couple coaches, like coach Mike but thea, and another coach, Jason basket, who were like that's cool and everything. But we need this aggression to come out on the court because you're meditating, because you're too short, you're athletic, But you're timid as fuck.
We need that guy to come out. We need to see some emotion and being an only child and pretty reserved and quiet.
I really want to know your demeanor in high school. I want everybody to get along. I'm the peacemaker.
Yeah, you're not trying to out alpha dude. No, right. I was the guy that lacked confidence. I was the guy that didn't ask out the girl who I really wanted to ask out. I might have been friends with her friend.
Uh-huh, and then, just like, kind of like settling.
It seems like you're a pretty sweet kid. Yeah, I'd say so.
I had a couple friends growing up that had a lot more confidence and more swagger, and I just kind of cowered away and was Like, all right. Well, that's the reason why they like him because he's more confident. even when I got into my pro career and bodybuilding, I remember already having a cover of flex magazine already had the spotlight on me, being a 2005 Mr. USA going for his pro debut in Denver. Like I'm a fan of half these guys that I read about the magazine but not looking in the mirror of realizing I'm about to beat these guys today.
so I was just being almost too nice. and then my coach at the time, honey Rambod, and The senior editor of flex magazine, Peter McGuff. They both saw me and they said what the fuck are you doing, dude? You got a turn this on. you're gonna lose because of your lack of confidence.
So I remember the lack of confidence I once had playing basketball that reentered in bodybuilding initially, and then, once I was able to flip that switch of saying no, It's time to rock and roll, Phil, You're good enough to win, and then I'm like I am, and then I look in the mirror I am, and then I accepted it and then I ran with it, right?
So you go to state on this basketball team in high school. you guys win state. Yeah, you then go to Denver for basketball play d1. You're on a scholarship and you get there and you're a freshman. So you're not playing a ton.
and then, Sophomore year, you're hoping to make some real gains and some strides. You kind of hit a wall. you get to a point where you're like, I'm just not really becoming this thing I've been fantasizing about. could we say this is depression number one?
This is depression number one, for sure, because I had turned down other Scholarships just to go to this school, because I was the guy that signed early senior year in high school. so before my first high school game already had a scholarship, and I think that was more of my parents doing then also maybe a.
Lack of confidence. You want to take the bird in the hand? You're not willing to risk it. But again, this is my parents.
They're like, this is what you do. Take it. They really like you. They call us all the time and I don't think they knew the whole recruiting process.
Well, no one has any experience with this. Are you gonna call to find out? Well, now they do, but back in 1997 they didn't. they treat every kid like they're Allen Iverson, and they get everyone believing.
they're Allen Iverson until you get on campus and then the coach is kind of like let's change this on this kid. and then They realize where the kids gonna fall in place. and sophomore year. I had a really good preseason, actually Scored high. I remember hedging a screen.
I remember getting injured, but I wouldn't say that that was the reason for me not playing anymore. but it was one of those situations where you Definitely didn't help your cause, because any college athlete understands this. the minute you get hurt. There's another guy in line. Yeah, right.
The coaches already got your replacement. They got to put in somebody and now you got to rehab, and while you're rehabbing, that person's getting more game reps than you are The minute you get in in the game, you're gonna fuck it up, because you don't have the same game reps. No matter how many times you've practiced, you don't have the muscle. You just don't have it like the speed of the game. You got to get in the flow and if you're only playing two, three minutes at a time, it doesn't work.
But you play all four years, right? Yeah, school ends, you're coming to terms, and I think this is the part I'd love to delve into a lot, because this is how I also want to end it. It's really tricky in life when you have an identity, and for you it had been, I guess, eight years at that point. I'm a basketball player. I know what the finish line is.
It's the NBA and this crazy reality. all of a sudden I'm not other than I might play for fun.
Yeah, I might play in a pro-am or try to get on that overseas trip. That just didn't make sense to me in your 20s.
It's already scary. You're like who am I gonna be as an adult? What am I pursuing and then to have the thing that you are certain of? Disappears so quickly is fucking brutal, and you had a real rough time with it. Absolutely.
I was also facing the reality of the fact that I had friends that were already in the NBA and Playing at the University of Denver, every opposing team that was going against the different Nuggets Practice at our University. I saw Kobe Bryant fresh out the gate. I saw Shaquille O'Neal. I saw Nick van Exel playing for the Nuggets, and you're getting a taste. Wow.
Look at these guys, man, He's making jump shots like it's nothing. check out his footwork. who stays in after practice? who's early? who's late?
How does he walk? Every athlete has a walk, probably, like every actor, has a certain strut. You know, like mesmerized by this, and then you realize that ain't you? you can only go as far as God said. You're gonna go, and at that time you can't see the bigger picture.
You're the kid that used to sleep with his basketball the night before the game. You're the one that would over prepare. You're the one that was always undersized, that play with a chip on his shoulder and you just did not get the minutes that you Felt you were deserving of, and your depression sets in and you realize what the hell am I gonna do? I will say. fortunately for me.
I Was sitting next to a guy that was competing in amateur bodybuilding. Was he a roommate? He just was a classmate. Okay, I was in a programming class. I was in a Oracle 9i class doing all this shit and I'm looking at his laptop.
Ronnie Coleman, J color, all these guys. I got Brooke Burke on my laptop.
And then I just realized by him explaining it to me, this is what I am into. I'm into working out for aesthetics and performance, and you're just been functional fitness for basketball.
So I was always muscular as, yeah, pictures of you as a basketball player. We have a good start. You're pretty overly muscular. Oh for a Hooper. Yeah, you have some good genes, my friends back home.
They'd be like look at the buff midget When I would take the shooting jacket off in college. people who would laugh. They'd be like who the fuck is this guy? because you know The student section is usually right behind you and they're just riding you like we didn't know. Denver had a football team.
We're gonna get this guy and then they're like, wait a minute. Why is his legs like this? He can dunk, you know when your identity is tied to that and you start comparing yourself to other people who did make it. and that was my problem. and When you see those hoop dreams just not work out, You tend to forget what is working out.
and what was working out was the fact that I still had a scholarship at a prestigious University. everything's paid for, even the fifth year, and I'm not showing gratitude for that. I only want to play. so during that fifth year I had to recognize what was working out for me and This new sport of bodybuilding. April 4th 2003..
I did my first amateur show, won everything. Hold on, No, you have a drinking spell in there. I didn't drink until I turned 21. I didn't do any. that was freaking boring.
But was it cuz basketball? It was a combination of everything. I didn't want to screw a good thing up with basketball at the time. I just didn't feel like I needed to party to have a good time. Honestly, I wanted to be around the guys and hang out with the girls.
that was good enough for me. But then, once you turn 21,, they're like here, let's party. We actually played on my 21st birthday, So we played against Colorado State over in Fort Collins and we lost. Of course we did Lost a lot. So the whole goal was to play up there, win and throw a party.
as corny as it may sound, today, I just wanted to go to Dave and Buster's without my fake ID anymore. Right, right, because you had to be over 21. So I was living in a basketball house. It was like five of us, and it's just a thing to do on off days from playing hoops, And I didn't think of it as a coping mechanism. If anything, I thought it was something that brought us together, and you're just laughing.
you're telling Joe's talking trash.
He's be kind of emotional with each other, which they can't. normally you're drunk. You can say your friend, like I fucking love you. You can't say that. So right, I think for boys in particular, You're just craving it so much, and this thing allows you to be really close with each other in a way that feels quite nice.
It was, but at the same time I did realize that waking up the next day having to go to practice was not fun and That had to get cut off at some point. It was our senior season. We played in the Sunbelt Conference just on one road trip. We would play South Alabama. So we play in Mobile.
We would then drive 45 minutes to go play University of New Orleans. Then we drive up to play Louisiana Lafayette and Louisiana Tech and then fly out. There's Mardi Gras going on in New Orleans.
You said this Marriott right off a canal in Bourbon and Coach would be like stay in your fucking room. the freaking coach USA driver took us out one night, okay, And we just used that per diem to go party man Having hurricanes and hand grenades. and then you recognize that this is getting out of hand. There was a couple teammates that got in some bad trouble. one had to take time off from the team Because now you're mixing pain meds with that.
Yeah, you start to see the negative effects escalating. I recognize that. but I will say I had the ability to stop. I was very lucky. I know a lot of other people couldn't stop.
that's why bodybuilding worked out so well for me. because You can't be a rock star in a bodybuilder, because when I did my first show and I won, I drank all night and Came out that next morning bloated as hell. those type of carbs from beers Just don't work right after you've been depleting for so long and I was embarrassed because I didn't look the part. So I was like, I'm not gonna do that again. I should have more respect for my health.
So bodybuilding for me, it always made sense to say, okay for four months out of the year when I'm training for competition. There is none of that, and I actually liked that because, first of all, it was working and, second of all, It reminded me that I was doing something that very few people can do. Maybe that sounds arrogant, but I think a lot of people need to learn self-control. I could still go out and go have a beer there. I'm like, yeah, maybe one, and maybe I only drink half of that.
if you were asked my wife How is Phil, when you guys go out to a nice dinner and there's dessert on the table? She'll tell you Phil will leave half of that shit on the table on purpose, Just to prove to himself that he doesn't have to do it, but he can do it.
Well, okay, so this is what I want to suggest. So we had Letterman on. he hasn't drank for the last 30 years or so. Wow, he quit. cuz he was an alcoholic, but he never went to AA.
and I said do you think it's possible? That you didn't need AA because you had another drug stepped in? and he said a hundred percent every night. I had a live audience. Yeah, to get the body you got to train like you did to do what needs to be done, Which I don't think people really broadly have an understanding of you have to be fucking addicted to it.
It has to be an obsession and an addiction. I imagine genetically, you're predisposed to be an addict with your parents. Yep, and I just wonder if you found the addiction that didn't take you down. Is there a drug of looking fantastic?
Yeah, how does that make you feel wonderful, but there's a competitive aspect about it. That's what really got me, the driver, because you know How many people I know. they could probably train as hard or train harder than me quite a few. But they can't die and train and do cardio and say no to people and communicate with their spouse and communicate with their friends and family and then have Curveballs thrown at their asses, with life happening, with people dying or friends fucking them over, or business media requests. I'm doing these appearances right now, and i've been traveling all year, which is dope, but my back is fucking hurting right now.
Yeah, yeah, but you do it. That's our bad couch. I'm, sorry. No, no, no, you're fine. I'm being transparent.
Hey, phil, you signed up for this. you signed up also for the unknown. You signed up for the fact that everything isn't always going to be in your favor. But you can make it that way if you stay committed to your purpose and then just knowing that if it was easy, Everybody be good and it always felt great being on a potty building stage. And if that person standing next to me knows they fucked up, knows that they didn't train as hard, Knows that they made a mistake, right?
They didn't cut right. They took a chance of oh, I'm gonna eat pizza and do a cheat meal, because last time I did it. It made me fuller, made me drier and harder. Well, that was last time you tried that shit. this time, instead of getting five percent better, You got twenty percent worse.
All you had to do is just stay committed to the process of eating this bland ass meal For like six more hours, maybe you would have won those point one percent Opportunities that many of us miss because of the lack of discipline At the most opportune time. still to this day, I thrive in those situations. There's more skulls that I gotta collect. There's more titles that I must have, there's more Adversity that I must be willing to go through, that. I don't even know what's gonna happen.
I didn't know that my dad was gonna die when I was competing. I didn't know I was gonna get a divorce. You have friends that don't like the fact that you're going through, that you have the media. that's fucking with you.
We're getting more and more isolated. winning is not the quickest road to friendship. It's like we have sean white on here. You would think he was loved in the snowboard community. He was hated.
when he would show up. They'd be like fuck. now. We're fighting for a second. That's not fun for them.
They've been trying all year, right?
Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.
Let's go through the meteoric rise. you start competing and, if I understood the doc correctly, You never didn't win, correct?
Oh, my god.
I'm watching. i'm like did I hear that? It's pretty wild?
So, like I did my first show, it was the mpc northern colorado is in boulder, colorado. I did the novice in the open. overall I won both. I did the mr. Colorado.
two months later. I won my weight class, but not the overall. so technically I didn't win the entire thing. But I was undefeated as an amateur, so to speak, because I never lost a weight division. But then I came back that following year won the mr Colorado, then went to the junior nationals, won that, got signed with flex magazine, muscle fitness, and then won the mr Usa that following month, in july of 05, with the cover flex.
that same night, When you get signed to flex, what did that mean? That means you're exclusive, so I can appear in multiple magazines. They'll have contests, photographers. But training my mindset, you know my words, my image and likeness will only be featured in muscle and fitness and flex.
Is that a yearly contract? It was always two years. and is it enough to pay for everything because you have to train and eat all day long? Oh, yeah, you can't do anything else. No, how ronnie coleman was a cop.
I don't understand. I believe, talking to ronnie about it.
He competed through his third mr. Olympia title as a police officer, and I know he loved it. He's his own thing. I know Firsthand what that travel schedule is like. once your travel schedule goes through the roof like well over a hundred thousand miles a year, You have to quit your day job.
You know, I was working at a valley total fitness as a retail store manager and I was catching shit. But when you're traveling every weekend to do guest appearances, autograph signings, we kind of touched on it, but now would be a good time.
your life at that time is Your training, I imagine, twice a day, twice a day, hour and a half. So three hours a day, but you got to eat every two hours and it takes you a minute to eat because you're fucking pounding. Oh, yeah, To have a normal job and eat the way you're supposed to, it's almost impossible. That's why you work at a gym, right?
No one's gonna freak out if they see you eating.
But you imagine being ronnie coleman's partner in his car and like he's driving around in the squad car And he's got a fucking whole roast chicken that he's got to get down in between the next call.
that's why he didn't have a partner, because they're probably like there's no way I could even focus smelling all this chicken and.
So when you got this flex magazine contract, you can live on that. I did. I knew that it would lead to other things.
So normally it's different nowadays, but when you turn pro, especially you're mr USA you would automatically get that exclusive contract with a magazine. back then it was flex Muscular development or iron man, then you would get a supplement sponsor Also, so I didn't have both right away. a lot of people did, but I was getting paid so much from weeder with the Publications that it was almost as if I was getting a supplement contract as well. So they bumped my pay up pretty nicely. So therefore I did not need to work that following year in 06, when I won my first two pro shows, My stock went up tremendously because I already proven myself.
That was when I first signed a supplement contract.
Probably beneficial that you had waited that long. You had a lot more leverage, I'd imagine, had you been stuck in one at the beginning of your correct? Are those hundreds of thousands of dollars contracts, or can they be millions of dollars?
I was the first one. that was a million. not then, but it grew into that. So I, along with, I know jay was almost a million. I know ronnie was close.
He might have hit that, but I can confirm that I was the first. on paper. That was over 100 a month. That's awesome. It was great feeling to know that that was possible.
Obviously, it took a shit ton of work just to get there because it wasn't right out the gate. like that doesn't happen. And especially nowadays, for anyone thinking that you're gonna get a million dollar supplement contract. It ain't happening. It's almost worse today because of social media algorithms.
that data. Yeah. Well, they could pay.
16 influencers right, with the aggregate following right beats, the one person i'm always advocating for the pro.
Yeah, the real deal. because, yeah, you could find some kids. I get it. I can't knock the tiktok.
I'm happy for anyone making money doing that. I'm glad, but at the same time.
They're not the same. a pro is different than a casual observer. Yes. You have a line at an expo. Yes, you have millions of followers.
maybe, but don't you fucking dare compare yourself to someone That will literally put it on the line in front of judges that adjudicate them. You're not the same. Yeah, But it's a wild time for our sport, because there's plenty of pros now that I do believe.
Are more influencer than competitor, they're forced to now. Yeah, it's part of the business actors same thing. It's all muddy now.
Okay, but we gotta explain to monica the importance of mr Olympia, it transcends every other event. It's the olympics. Mr.
Olympia's it, arnold won seven. is it once a year? once a year? Okay. It's our super bowl of bodybuilding.
So anyone that will say oh, yeah, my friend. He's a bodybuilder. It's like, okay, What did they want? you just cut the bullshit. and if they say they won the olympia, because i've had people say this Oh, yeah, my friend.
He won the olympia. What's his name? Was it the amateur olympia? because it might have been that shit, because there's only one winner per category.
Yes, but arnold is arnold, because he won seven. Got it, And that was unheard of and impossible, and he was the gold standard. and then this fucking freak came along, Ronnie coleman, who, by the way, have you watched his documentary? Oh, yeah, it's beautiful, And I want to talk to you about that again. I have very little knowledge of this world, But I see what this man did and the sweetness of this man and the way trained, and he won eight, Monica, and I don't think there have been a run of black winners either.
So there was chris dickerson, who's black, and then lee haney, who was black, and lee haney actually won eight. Oh, yeah.
So lee haney won eight. Oh, so then I scrap my observation.
The reason why ronnie coleman is so special, not that lee haney isn't. ronnie was a former college football player at gramlin state, Majored in accounting saddest part of the doc. They were not gonna hire a black guy to be an accountant in the deep south. Ronnie's such a sweet guy.
He's justifying that. they all said I needed some work experience, but it's like how out of college. How do you get it? Especially that's a profession, but he's so kind and sweet. It's like no ronnie.
That was fucking racism, mad cum laude. Yes.
You're given these milestones that you have to achieve, so you'll be treated equally, and he does it, and they move the fucking goalpost. It's heartbreaking. So it's definitely heartbreaking because he's now delivering pizzas and newspapers a college standout, Academically, with a degree in accounting. He didn't just. we won't talk shit about other majors.
It's accounting. Yeah, we all need one, and he wanted to be an accountant and they literally wouldn't let him. and he delivers pizzas, And then he becomes a cop, and then he starts training and he's a monster. now, in hindsight, Monica, this was not the way to do it. He was power lifting prior, being a football player.
I mean the guy was already jacked. his warm-up for squats would be like 500. Like this guy's out training everybody. he could have been like a world-class power lifter.
Oh, for sure, because he was on that path. But if you look at some of the old videos of him power lifting, he looked like a bodybuilder. I believe in his story brian dobson. He owned metroflex in arlington and gave ronnie a opportunity to have a free gym membership If he did a bodybuilding competition, so ronnie was like, well, I don't want to pay, so I guess i'll do it.
Ronnie just becomes this monster. He also pushes his sport in a way. I would imagine arnold, when he's winning those. What is he about 240?? Yeah, it was like mid 240s and tall.
So six, one ish. Yeah, ronnie comes along and ronnie starts winning. Mr. Olympia is at 300.. This has never been seen.
He's a freak.
He was a problem, meaning you want to go against the guys like flex wheeler. Sean ray, like these more aesthetic, Just beautiful, round sculpted physiques, marvel superheroes. They have all this definition, right? Ronnie had all that. he was 5, 11, long arms, long legs, but round and could out condition.
He's making everybody look like they're in 720p and he's 4k with the roundness. it's just more muscle per square inch. the muscle now jumps out at you and you're like Oh shit, I can see this muscle on an anatomy chart, But this is a human being that stands amongst us and he could outlift you. You look at guys like dorian gates, who is out of birmingham, england, And he was known for just hardcore training and he could outwork anyone. It sucks because we have to talk about this with bodybuilding.
people talk about race, So they say white guys can't beat black guys, right? But dorian did. he won six? Mr Olympia, his muscles were sculpted. They were hard, just grainy, looked like granite.
and then lee haney was more round. But when ronnie came, he had the best of both, and that's what made him so formidable.
But race comes up in that doc, which is black. dudes have a harder time building calves. is the not stereotype?
But that was in there and ronnie's like oh shit, I gotta fucking. yeah, I gotta try gonna murder these calves.
Yeah, so interesting. It is interesting because it's the sport where, when you turn pro, You're known for like one strength arnold's chest, right? But when you win the olympia, you're known for the least amount of weaknesses. Oh, not, your strength. Especially when you repeat over and over again.
It's kind of like any other sport. at some point in time We nitpick the shit out of the best, of course, competitor, but that means you're the best, that means you're the standard. But when it comes to being mr. Olympia, arnold won seven, canny won eight, ronnie won eight. I won seven.
it's the mount rushmore, and Now we get to transfer those same qualities into business, into life, but I gotta interject some stuff.
There's some intangibles too, because arnold had just so much charisma. two bodies are dead equal. He's winning. He has charisma. You proved it.
He is a movie star. You have a lot of charisma. Oh, thanks. So charisma's in the mix. you see some guys up there and i'm watching this last night.
I'm a lay person. I can't really tell this or that, but Just like acting, phil looks like he loves this job. He's happy. He's got a smile. He's up there to show off and other dudes are up there and they don't have that personality.
innately, There's a lot of different things that are going into the stew. as a viewer, You enjoy watching someone more than you enjoy watching another person. I think it plays a role.
Especially if it's close. you always look at a professional. that makes the hardest thing look easy. Yeah, yeah, if it looks daunting, then it's like this guy's struggling and some people like to see that, But not when you're supposed to give a performance. I enjoyed every minute of it.
I enjoyed the competition more than anything. There was also money involved. There's sponsorships. There's legacy, There's enough of this fucking diet that I am like Like when you're on stage. you're like, okay, this is it.
I Ate all that food. I did all that freaking cardio. I said no to everything. I know I did everything, right? See, there's some delusion that comes into this sport as well, because, especially nowadays, Everybody's telling you how great you are on social media, the over Indulgence of taking the pictures, and then you're posting, posting, posting to get more likes, likes likes, And then the fan will say he doesn't look like that on stage.
It's like yeah, dumbass. But the competitor should know better. the competitor should know that the pictures I take in this natural lighting, without the oil, without the bronzer, Without standing next to another competitor. That's everything. you learn that watching the doc elevated on a platform, the parallax between left and right, where the judges sit, you have to go through all these different intangibles and Realize that man, I probably shouldn't have posted as much.
I should have just posted just enough to keep them engaged. Maybe I should have posed it with just a t-shirt on and just talk to them, or better yet, Maybe I saved those photographs, like phil heath did his entire career and you saw the docs, So you got to see my very first selfie. Yeah. Yeah, he starts doing this thing.
It's very scientific. as soon as he starts bodybuilding, at first He's like i'm gonna take a picture once a month. Then he's like i'm gonna take a picture once a week and he's like, no, i'm gonna take a picture every time I lift. So I can actually be objective about this. He would draw on these pictures.
These calves need to look like this.
It was scientific. You have to know where you're going, right? You have to figure this out, and it's not just oh, yeah, It's about the destination. It's like I gotta know Every freaking day that i'm getting closer and I have to explain to someone one day that this is how I, freaking, did it, How my blueprint worked for me, and now I can be of service to many other people that say hey, I want to be a bodybuilder. I want to do this.
I want to do that like, okay, Well, are you willing to do these things? because that's what it's going to require? Otherwise, you're going to pay someone to make sure they do these things for you. Well, you're coaching it honey.
He's like, oh, he's my favorite guy to coach because he came out of the world of sports. He's used to having a coach. No. No, this sucks. You got to work on this.
Here's a weakness. the coach's worst problem is the guy that's uncoachable. We've all seen this. Unfortunately. This is me.
This is my character defect. Yeah, you just like, fuck this.
Like i'm too embarrassed. if you point out something, I get too embarrassed and then you shut down. Yeah, it's terrible. This is my weakness. I think I could have been really good at a lot of things if I could just receive instruction.
Maybe it was just the person, though. I think it's me younger brother syndrome.
Well, at least you raise your hand and you know what it is. A lot of people live in delusion.
Big weakness. It's still working out for him.
He's doing okay.
Oh.
Okay, so the story is so good. people will love taking this ride, your first olympia. you come in third. You're against jay cutler. You guys are buddies 2011..
You start winning and then you just win. 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014.
2015 2016 is it getting scary? 2017? scary like how, every time you come back, you're like it's mine to lose.
I don't want to disrespect anyone. He was competing against because he had a lot of good competition in that. But in the same way, when you watched arnold like if you watch pumping iron, even if you don't know, It's pretty fucking obvious. Then of course, it's a great story. He's got this hernia.
It fucks up his entire abdomen, He's got to get surgery and it destroys you. Yeah, and then, even when i'm watching your comeback in 2020, Of course i'm rooting for you. You're the hero of my movie, but i'm looking and i'm like you've done a good job on the abs.
But that ship sailed, and that's the problem that the athlete has to remember. you're being compared against your old self, Which is fucked up, because you're supposed to be compared to the people you're standing next to. When michael jordan came back and he played for, the wizards still had all-star numbers, but we're like, yeah, but he's not like Mj, he's shitting me. He's still playing at a high level, But they only criticized the best for me in that particular show. So I had 27 month layout between 2018 olympia and 2020 olympia because of the surgery, and during that time I hadn't seen honey, especially during covet.
He had lost his father. I just know in my heart he was in his own funk and he just did not want to leave. He didn't travel. normally he would travel, we'd meet up, we'd figure these things out, and i'm not making excuses. these are just things that happen that normally wouldn't and We missed.
it was the one time in my freaking career Where the diet. toward the end, some decisions were made, and when you miss in this sport, you lose.
The meticulousness of it is insane. It is insane the water drop, water drop.
The water drop means normally, when you're training for a competition, you want to keep your body hydrated. So you're drinking for me a gallon and a half to two gallons of water per day. You're splitting it up. You're not just drinking all at once. I have like a 25 ounce shaker cup and I would just fill that up, And I drink that like every 90 minutes.
so I had it on the clock and you're running through the freaking bathroom.
Is getting through it. give her an example. What's your weight at before you start cutting and then so i'd be 280 pounds.
I'm, five, nine and I get all the way down to 246, 248 from the water and the pea. No, no, no, it's just from the diet alone. So, like right before the show, i'd be low 250s and then I we would call, drop the hammer, do like a water depletion, Diuretics. we play around with that a little bit, But unfortunately diuretics can kill you this blood pressure meds. you give that to people that have excessive fluids, right?
So where bodybuilders have up their bodies, especially their physiques, that how it looks. typical person would say Oh, yeah, just continue to drink your water. However, you want eat within certain parameters. You can still salt your food. Just take the diuretics, man.
They'll be fine. you don't want to do that because if you miss, You're gonna look like you never died a day in your life and you're creating a huge freaking problem that You do not want to be going to hospital For this dehydration. and then your body rebounds and then it's even 10 times worse, and then you become holding water. You're messing up your kidneys. at this point.
It's just stupid. So our thing was, if we got to over diet a little bit, Maybe lose a couple pounds of muscle just to get through that extra layer of fat, that marbling of fat. So be it. Because then, when you do the water depletion, So as you're going from two gallons to a gallon and a half to one gallon to half a gallon, You're increasing your carbohydrates because it takes a certain amount of water to process one carb. You gotta be a chemist.
So you're doing this for and then you realize wait a minute, if I time this right, I don't need a diuretic which in fact will keep your blood pressure correct. So then you can get a pump. but if you screw up and you rely on the diuretics low blood pressure How are you going to get a pump? So these guys they say oh, I look flat. So now they're overeating and then, as you're doing that, your stomach gets bloated because of the fact that you got too much food in your system without Enough water, and you haven't taken a shit.
So therefore, you know, people think it's always because of this growth hormone, or insulin, Or whatever it is. It's like no dude. The guy hasn't taken a poop. It's simpler than that and it's very simple. It's like the guy's bloated because he's trying to eat all this food, because he knows that it's going to help with the glycogen storage And it's going to make his muscles pop.
It's just a complete disaster. So, like in 2020, it just didn't work out for me, And normally if I missed a little bit, I could rebound on that saturday night because it's a two-day comp. But this time it was just like yeah, of course, Everybody thinks they should have placed at least one slot higher. I still think I could have got second, but even then it doesn't matter. at the end of the day, It's the olympia or nothing.
and the best part about it and you'll see this in breaking olympia Is that in 2008?
? I did my first mission, olympia. I placed third in 2020.. I placed third. I know you don't like it.
But on the outside for story, it's nice and neat. There's something about bookending that. that's kind of sweet. I like it.
I came to grips with that right away.
I didn't know how much of it was performative or how sincere it was, But you seemed to take it pretty well.
Well, I had to because we had already been filming breaking olympia years prior and in 2019 we were done. and then covid happened and I was like I just watched the 2019 olympia and I thought right then and there I could have won that Covid. this is an antagonist that I kind of need. So what if I win that? Because there's those type of people like a john elway that wins the two superbowls and rise off in the sunset.
I had friends that were like dude, you already won seven. You're tired of Schwarzenegger. You can coin that and walk away And end on top, and end on top, because the average person would say I would have just ended on top and I'd say Yeah, you fucking would have. and in fact You would have probably stopped at one right because of the risk of the unknown And finding out who the fuck you really are and knowing that someone may get left behind And all of the stress and the pressure and the sleepless nights in the early mornings. But to me it was all worth it because at least I could say two times I went for number eight right now in bodybuilding.
There's no one in the world that can say i'm going to try to tie the all-time record. that's going to take some time, So I wanted to give it my best on a shot, and I had a friend in, dewane johnson. He and I had some intimate conversations about his career in wrestling, How he had to step away at one point to focus on other things and what that, by the way.
It's also worth pointing out. He has the same inciting incident as you and ronnie and everyone, which is ronnie's football career didn't work out. Your basketball and the rocks football career didn't work out and we pivoted and we leveraged it. This is a great time to say it, and I said it to my 10 year old, Because you're watching all these guys. jay cutler's in it a lot, who won four times.
ronnie coleman's in it, You're in it. They go to the rock. I said out loud. I'm like, oh my god, the rock looks small, doesn't he? And lincoln's like, oh my god, he does.
Yeah, I'm, like, oh my god, this is fucking insane, that you just adjust to what you're seeing and they show the rock and he kind.
Of looked normal. That is so weird.
This guy ain't normal man. No, he's a big dude. Yeah, we've trained together at iron paradise. I feel very privileged to say that I trained there with them. You're probably dying to get down to black mold paradise.
Yeah, just below me, black mold, paradise.
Yes, you're going into black mold, you're gonna get those spores. no, I don't want activating spores.
But yeah, it's wild, because we're all just trying to be the best versions of ourselves through life's challenges. And in breaking olympia, I mean you're able to see myself, But, and also, like you said, I mean you get to hear from other athletes in there. We all have to give up something, and it's all to be remembered. Okay.
Well, i'm really glad you're really well versed in the ronnie coleman doc, because we had seen it. in the other day. I've had a lot of people. i've gotten to ask this question. to the real takeaway for me of the coleman doc Is you're watching him wake up at four and go to the gym And he can't walk and he has to train still, and I love him, But i'm watching that and I go man, our identities are so tricky.
Yeah, this man might kill himself because.
He can't be small. I don't even think it's the size aspect. I just think. Actually, I know that ronnie coleman Loves being mr. Olympia.
That's what drove him. Well, it saved him also, i'd say so. he inspired all of us Through his body of work. This is a man in 2004 that guest posed It's called the npc rocky mountain championships in denver, colorado, at east high school. I saw him there signing autographs in the morning.
I waited two hours then and decided okay, I'll see him at the night show, I gotta go get something to eat, and I waited two And a half more hours to get his autograph. that night. I made sure I was the last person. I just wanted to be the last guy, and I bought four, eight by ten autographs from him. It wasn't one of those moments where I was, like, you'll know my name one day.
It wasn't even about that. I'm, just a fucking fan and i'm just observing, like how he carried himself as a professional, how he smiled and answered questions, And lo and behold that following year, obviously I turned pro and I ended up having to cover flex. I ended up watching him Compete for number eight in o5 in las vegas, only to figure out that honey rambod was one of his best friends And I had met honey a month prior. Whoa, and we just clicked right away. So honey saw me at an after party, decided to say hey, come hang out with us.
I'm, like I get to hang out with ronnie fucking coleman after you just won number eight, and to fast forward and seeing Ronnie coleman at my after party, seeing ronnie coleman guest pose and then slowly on the decline with his hips, with his neck and back.
He's had, I guess, 12 back surgeries, this hardware for back surgery.
It's got to be specific for a person's size, but I don't think they could take into account his type of muscle.
Yeah, they're not designing shit for a guy that, no, they don't know. 300 pounds of muscle, some vibranium.
Yeah, talk, they needed something futuristic, Because I know, having two hernia surgeries, that my second one was worse than the first one. And then, when they put that mesh in but I had titanium staples in mine and second time I popped one of the staples out through my own skin, I had to go back into surgery for 20 minutes just to get it pulled out. So I know if that can happen to me on that small scale. I can only imagine ronnie, because ronnie had a surgery and within 90 minutes, two hours, They did throw him back in because he already broke through the hardware. His body is just different Than anyone else in the fucking world and I watched.
I never got to compete against him, but I got to see him up close competing against jay cutler. I was there when he won his eighth. I was there when he lost to jay and the torch was passed on. I was there when ronnie coleman retired on stage. There was not a dry eye in that place.
He was the best steward of that. God bless ronnie coleman man, because he ultimately just loved being mr. Olympia.
And that's why he still trains. when you're watching, i'm gonna make you go deep. It is heartbreaking to watch him.
Hurt himself. You don't see him hurt himself in the gym.
You just know later that's not good for the back and what he's dealing with.
You don't think of it like that. you watch him squat 800 pounds And he does it for more than one rep. He puts on a squat suit. It's during the cost of redemption. So ronnie coleman had won the 2002 mr.
Olympia. There was a guy by the name of gunter schlierkamp who got fifth, Who then went on tour? I want to say like a month later and beat ronnie coleman at the gnc show of strength. anytime that happens, Everybody thinks He's vulnerable. ronnie coleman can be beaten.
What did ronnie coleman do? he went back in the gym and said that shit ain't ever gonna happen again. And that's when he did this dvd called the cost of redemption. You need to fucking watch this. He did the most uncanny weight In one leg session.
this guy's doing 800 pound squat. I think he got it for three. He said he could have got it for more, and then he did like a 2300 pound leg press, and he's doing this for a set of 10 During the same. this workout will never be duplicated, because you might be able to do the workout, But you won't look like him while doing it. You won't have that muscle.
You might just be a strong-ass dude. You'd be like one of these strong men's, but you wouldn't have the definition. I think those are the workouts collectively over time that you're going to have compression. He slipped a disc in one of his back workouts And of course that happens. He didn't have the same recovery protocol.
I think that he would have had, maybe today, jay cutler's in the dock and he said look, we do it differently now.
We don't do the heavy weight. We do more reps still heavy. Trust me. Yeah.
Just for context, for everybody like, it's still fucking heavy. We're not doing 800 pound squat, but we're not ronnie coleman. No, ronnie coleman's, in a league of his own, you know, you're taking like your best lift. Let's say, you're saying oh man, I could bench 500 pounds. He's like 500 pounds.
Okay, i'll do that for 12. I can only do that for a single shit, right, all in one workout. He could do like 200 pound dumbbell presses in one hand.
So great. Yeah.
It's not just one exercise. He's doing that plus incline dumbbell press. He's a superhero. No bullshit, He is a superhero. you ask him.
Would you change up anything? He says no.
He seems to be at peace with it, But I guess on the outside, what I wanted to say is like, you know, you'd be loved by everyone, no matter What size you were? I would want him to hear that and believe that you think that's what it was, though.
Or just the pursuit of. i'm gonna go as far as I can. Yeah, maybe, maybe i'm totally wrong.
I think I just know what it's like for me to have an identity, And that's why people like me and i'm wrong all the time turns out people like me for way different reasons than I think.
That could be part of it. Maybe I have to ask him, But I will say that ronnie coleman has still One of the longest queues at an expo you'll ever see. so even with him in a wheelchair.
He's also eating oxy 80s like fucking m&ms, and i'm an ex opiate addict. the amount of fucking opiates He has that'll be on to exist. It's not ideal. It's not ideal.
You can tell there's a point in time where you're doing interviews and speech is definitely compromised. He's paying a price. It's 59.. Yeah, he's turning 60. big birthday year.
Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.
I ask you all this because you have this huge transition that you're in the middle of and i'm wondering what stuff is hard For you, like a let's just go through. You had a regiment that was so time consuming that there wasn't space for you to be wandering, right? What should I be doing? there was no time for that. You now have this time to contemplate where you're at in life, which can lead to depression.
There's all this stuff. You are the best now. You're retired. How big do you stay? This is a questions.
You have to be wondering. Yeah, I have to imagine for you.
It's really heavy on your plate. when I decided to do a bodybuilding show. I think of every freaking scenario, every permutation possible I have to, because it's not just me involved, It's my wife involved, his friends, his family, people who you lean on for assistance, for resources I know in my whole being, I could compete and be highly competitive at the olympia level if not win another one. I have to fight that demon every time I go to the gym. So it was to a point where I have not been to the gym.
Ladies and gentlemen, I haven't been to the gym for one consecutive month since I trained for that last show. Part of it was because I needed to know who I was aside from the weight lifting. so, like we're talking about going deep, I had to figure this out because Majority of people go to the gym as a band-aid for their problems. Why not just rip the band-aid off and see who you really are? but that's the problem.
people may lack the discipline or the space to then not go into complete darkness and drugs, alcohol, women gambling, just mistreating your Whole soul. and yeah, I had moments where I was unsure of myself. I know what i'm supposed to be, this massive entrepreneur. I know i'm supposed to be this public global speaker. I've done that even while I was competing, But now i'm talking about perseverance in a different way.
I'm reapplying what I know and knowing that I have a great future, but oh shit, I'm starting to feel like i'm back in this basketball scenario again. So let's not allow it to happen. Let's now unpack everything. This is going to take a lot of fucking time. Thank god for breaking olympia.
We ended up doing more interviews because you realize that you're not going deep enough and although it costs money, It was worth it, because I wanted to be my most vulnerable, authentic self for the viewers, because I needed them to see me as a man. I needed people to see me beyond just a bodybuilder. I needed them to understand that this is not a story about protein shakes and steroids. This is about a man's journey to find himself and love himself through the hardest battles of his life.
Well, my favorite stuff is you copying to the instagram addiction? how easily you get ensnared in it. i'm like, oh man, I relate to that. Yeah, I know about reading comments and clapping back and going. why on earth am I giving that person?
You're realizing you're giving attention when there's all these people that said they loved you, that you just hearted. You know, I got millions of people that love me and I don't care about that. But I care about this jackass living in mom's basement. or maybe he's just a person that doesn't live in mom's basement. I don't know what his life is.
We don't know, so we don't need to care, right? It's because, yeah, I carry insecurity, but you know, what's funny when people say? Oh, you're insecure. Fuck, Yeah, I am really want to know why. because I give a shit.
I twist these different definitions like oh, you're insecure, Yeah, that keeps me going, that keeps me not satisfied. See, your security got you in a box. You're comfortable. That's why you don't have what you truly desire, because you're scared, because you know that on the outside of that secure box, Is insecurity is the unknown, is the problems, is the shit that you got to deal with. and Removing bodybuilding for me allowed me an opportunity, just like kovat.
when kovat hit. What do people do? They drank. domestic violence increased bad habits and bad patterns increased for me. I looked at it as an opportunity to realize.
Okay, phil, you have a lot of demons, dude, You're not going to the gym and you're like scratching. you're an addict. You need to go to the gym. Yeah, yeah, yeah. when times got rough.
I'd tell my wife I need to go to the gym, I need to go to, like a shit about it. She'd be like no, you have these things you got to do. You know you're coming out of body. Yeah, and then I had to sit with it and be calm and I had to get on my knees and just scream, Pound the pavement. What is my purpose?
What am I supposed to do right now? I know what it takes to be. Mr Olympia, I don't know what it takes to be phil heath. It's totally. that's just different.
So, like, what does this mean? who am I supposed to impact? and, as you're saying, these things? You already fucking have the answer. You're just too afraid to let this other part go.
Well, it's so. and then realized that me letting go of basketball allowed me to become a better bodybuilder, because I was able to bring All the attributes that got me to be a division one athlete into bodybuilding. being a self-starter, being raised as an only child, No one had to tell me how to train. being coachable. I got to use it to my advantage.
Now I have to do the same thing with life.
I'm gonna add, though a lot of people wrestle with this. a lot of people They're the vice president of a company, and that's how they relate to everyone, and that feels good. I get it when they walk out on the street. It's not that everywhere they went, people knew they were a vice president, So when they quit being a vice president, it's not that everyone's going to visually be able to look at them. So you've had this.
I would say it's very compounded. identity wise is that you're enormous. You have a very visual representation of your identity, more than a lawyer has or a doctor. So I think it's very compounded for you. I can't imagine when i'm 62 and I have spaghetti arms.
I am assuming for you. It's got to be a thousand x of what I even wrestle with.
It's quite relative. But then again, that's a lot of energy, dude, I got to compare myself to seven times like, wasn't that the whole point, phil?
Well, we know that intellectually, but then there's an emotional side of us. Absolutely, That's still eight years old. What i'm really curious about is how do you see your body going forward? What's the smallest you could be, where you wouldn't be like, oh my god, i've evaporated.
Probably when i'm dying, I guess you know, that's how I look at it. I mean I had a succession plan. by the time you're 45, You're probably gonna weigh this. when you're 50, you're gonna weigh this. when you're 55, you're gonna weigh this.
and Now it's more. you can weigh whatever you want. As long as your blood work says this. Oh, that's great. Physical says this that's all that matters, because those numbers don't lie.
Like if your cholesterol is high, don't matter. if you're 190 or 290, you need to see your calcium heart score. You need to do all that shit, but I will say me being 280 pounds, It requires so much effort that I recognize that's not Necessary To be an iconic figure in the sport of bodybuilding. more people see me happier.
You're probably more fun to go to dinner with now. I was always fun to go out with.
I think the problem was that recently I heard an interview With david goggins, and david goggins was talking about how he has this stare, and people think that he's just being a dick, When really he ain't even thinking about you, right? You're not even in the room. He's thinking about everything else he's got to do. So i've been doing that for my whole adult life. So I think, by being misunderstood, that's what people got.
it's like the late kobe bryant. He had that stare too. He could be sitting on the bench and he's already hyper focusing on what he needs to do. And you have chris rock in the background. There's a video of chris rock just talking to kobe during a game and kobe's just like locked in.
He doesn't even budge. Yeah, you don't hear. I understand that. I know what that silence is like in the midst of competition, where the decibels are over a hundred And you hear nothing but your own heart and what you need to fucking do to get the job done. That's so freaking powerful.
but my obligation is to my greater purpose. my greater purpose is to be able to share the fact that you can transition away from The sport of bodybuilding, looking at guys like arnold as your muse and saying if I could just come close to that, That would feel freaking great. I've been so fortunate to train next to arnold. I never trained with him when I was competing but to go to his show in ohio, to go to his show recently in england, And his people hit me up and say arnold would like to train with you. Fuck yeah, This is sick.
This is so much fun and to be acknowledged as also a seven time. I get to share that. I now get to build on a relationship like that. I don't need to go back To be somebody I already am. you didn't lose it, right?
It didn't go away. No, but the mindset.
The passion. i've been around arnold a lot as well. The one thing I really hope you can take from him is when you're around arnold. He is not 260 anymore. No, he's an older man.
He is still the barbarian to me. You're so right, but you don't assume that for yourself. You don't give yourself that same grace, which is like no, No, when i'm with arnold, i'm like that's calling in the barbarian.
He's in really good shape and he's having fun and he's doing his thing.
He's not what he was, but he is always what he was to me, because I love him. This one's gonna be the hardest, but I need you to know where i'm coming from beforehand. I am so pro bodybuilding. I love it. I'm not someone that's like, oh, lay it on me.
Okay, okay, And this is about retirement or the new identity. So i'm on testosterone. I'm, probably gonna take it the rest of my life. I love how I feel on it.
I'm way more energetic, probably better to be around.
Yeah, I started six years ago. I was ready to retire, and then I started taking it, and then we started this show, and I just love how it makes me Feel. now that's got to be in the mix. How are you deciding what you'll hang on to chemically? Oh, that's easy.
I was fortunate to get with a company called transcend Out of auburn hills, michigan, and their main focus was to help people stay optimal, and I never partnered with a company Of any sorts when it comes to hormones ever in my career, because I never believed that they were doing things the right way And with these guys well.
It's a very tricky thing because i've had a lot of actors in here that are clearly On a lot of stuff and I don't bring it up because they're not trying to tell a kid They should do what they did. I understand the pressure and it's very hard to be honest about it. I'm, one of the few people will tell you i'm on testosterone.
Almost no actor will tell you that you want to know what my goal was when i've turned pro back in the day. Was that one day we could have this conversation openly and not have it be so dark and stigmatized? Yeah, you want to be optimal, right? So this is what you do. We're not saying that.
first and foremost, just because you take testosterone. You're gonna be ronnie coleman, You're gonna be phil heath. get the fuck out of here with that right away. That's the problem, because you get guys that are not committed, not disciplined, don't have the genetics, Don't have the work ethic, and would say well, if I did that I would be like him, my tiny nothingness.
I have dudes go like yeah, if I was on testosterone, i'm like, yeah, I also eat very specifically.
I also work out six days a week. You gotta stop. They think you can take this and look great, And i'm like, give it a shot, literally, give it a shot, right? So me, working with transcend helps address a lot of those things and bring better awareness. So now i'm on the other side of it, because you have different goals now.
There was a protocol you had when you were, mr Olympia, that clearly as a retiree. and is that hard to say goodbye to? it's not hard at all, because once you say, you're done.
You also realize what's ahead, and what's ahead is greater health. because what's the thing that happens when you turn pro? Oh, he's on all this stuff and everybody thinks that they know what you're taking, when in fact I took way less than you guys probably ever could imagine. There were certain compounds that I never even used. just because you did it right doesn't mean that I did it, and it's all speculation.
And there's guys that claim natty status, and they clearly aren't. so you're better off just saying I did what I did. You don't know what I did, right, but the results mattered, and My skin texture looks very nice and clean. You didn't see me all rashed out acne all over your back. that and the fact that You don't see all bumps and lumps in my physique.
The muscle fibers still have its own integrity. if I flex my bicep right now, You see lines in there that you ain't gonna see From other people. and that's because I did things a certain way and I was able to use peptides that helped reduce inflammation. I had those two hernia surgeries. So I needed something to get rid of that.
I needed something to help with my gut microbiome. You got your second brain in your gut, So, of course me traveling around the world, i've eaten everything in sight, have had intestinal parasites. I've had all that. you need certain medications to help clear that out. Also.
I had long covet. I had covet pneumonia. I was in the hospital for a week. Oh my god, so your cognitive delay is definitely apparent. I did remdesivir.
I did all that shit just to get out of there. I was in bad shape. So to know that i'm with a company now, that I can have medications prescribed to me that I can take with me everywhere That are going to help me stay optimal, help me have better mental clarity. I was not as clear as I am right now speaking with you with this type of verbiage. three years ago I had a torn mcl.
I need to get back in the game. I have a company that can monitor these things and I have licensed wellness specialists along with my own specific Doctor that I work with. so I do panels every three months and, fortunately for me, when I was competing I always did panels. I did full chem panel. I was the one that was spending more money than your bro at the gym just doing the bro science of like, oh, yeah, I'm taking testosterone, i'm doing eq.
i'm doing trend. first and foremost. I did my first few competitions Clean against guys that weren't. that's what taught me that I could beat a lot of people. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, I was regular saying beating super saiyans.
man. Like I was already that dude. I now promote a company That says look before you decide to make this jump, Let's at the very least look at your blood work and see if you're even deficient, because a lot of people are just doing, especially Kids, well, it's not even optimal, right? They go way above anything. We're talking about the kids.
You got kids on tiktok taking testosterone. Yeah, taking tremor and stuff like that. They don't even need it and they don't even know. and i've said this time and time again, And I feel like this is my calling to tell these younger people First of all, I gotta tell the parents you need to be more active in your kids lives. Yeah, you need to follow who they follow and what they're watching, just like how you would on the television.
You need to know what they're liking on social media, because that'll give you a clear indication as to what the hell they're up to. So if they're liking certain people that produce social media content, that have drugs involved that are not prescribed Obviously, because you have to go to a doctor to go get these things. First of all, you're committing a crime, So you gotta know that part. and then the education part about it. If some people says well, it's just a little testosterone, this 20 year old's taking it's like, but why is he taking it?
Now we have to address the different psychological issue. We have to understand. Why does that matter? Is it because of the fact that this influencer over here is making a million dollars because he looks a certain way?
Do you like lane norton? by chance? Do you follow by lane? Yeah, he's funny. I love him.
I've become a greater fan of lane over the years because he makes it His mission to just debate, and we need that. and he's science first for me. I don't have obviously that background, but I do have my own body to say. like for me, This is what worked as a 44 year old mill. I'll be 45 at the end of the year.
I can use less and get more based on what's currently available through great company Understanding. there's more science. as far as the timing of things, just like there's nutrient timing with supplements, There's timing with certain medications. once you can put all the pieces together, You can really make something magical happen, something very beautiful. so my advice to a lot of people that want to get into the Hormones and stuff is that, first of all, you got to get your blood work done.
We already got to do that, and most guys don't want to do that because they're going to be told some things They don't want to hear. they're going to be told that your a1c is high, you know You may be pre-diabetic, you drink too much or you smoke too many cigarettes. so you can't just say okay, I'm going to get on testosterone. I'm going to buy some stuff from some dealer at a gym, which is fucking illegal And it's very reckless. You're just going to damage your body.
now for kids. You're fucking stupid, and i'm saying this as your big brother. I want to put my arms around these kids, these young, 18, 19, 20, 22 year old guys. ped performance enhancing drug. They're not even competing in anything.
So they're just doing it just to be doing it, and they're doing it just for social media. So that's not what champions do. what champions do? they figure out their diet, exhausting every other option they are Looking at delay, gratification. They're understanding recovery modalities.
Here's one for you How many influencers do you see online talk about the diet, the training? they can talk about bds, But what's their recovery protocol? Not just cold plunges. We're talking about, like real recovery protocols. We're talking about the infrared sauna.
We're talking about the vitaris 320, you know the hyperbaric therapy. We're talking about drx 9000 traction tables, so that you don't have the compression that irani coleman had. We're talking about mls laser therapy that actually helps stimulate the collagen production around the body parts. So then you have more collagen production, therefore more vasodilation, you know, you can actually inhibit more healing shockwave therapies. It's kind of the same thing.
See, these are all the things that I was fucking doing. I'm treating this body like an f1 car. Thank you. You took it right out of my mouth. it's f1 all day, because You gotta know every little detail and you gotta know why they work and how they work in certain sequence, And that's why you're able to see someone like myself in breaking olympia, win all those titles.
I'm actually going to be training not for the olympia before the olympia. It's the 60th. Mr. Olympia this year. I've been commentating the olympia for the last two years and i'm actually the same weekend as the olympia, Which will be back in las vegas.
I'm going to be inducted into the international sports hall of fame. So I have this idea that with breaking olympia, Releasing now, people are going to want to see what's going on. I got a lot of cool things ahead. I just think it'd be funny as hell if i'm commentating the show And I look kind of ripped, you know, imagine doing a pre-show and I just strip. Yeah, i'm like.
this is what they need. They need the pause. They need the cast. I'm black and I got cast. You need this.
you need the lines on the biceps. This is for the viewers. Yeah, now i'm kind of putting myself out there, even saying this on the podcast. But those are those things i'm thinking, phil, you don't have to do that, But you need funnier, and I wouldn't be the competition, phil, that people have seen. I want to show the transition, Because no disrespect to eight-time ronnie coleman, people think that's what's going to happen to every person.
I can be the example of that. not being the case, j color, perfect example. so I think it's important to teach other guys, because I Now implore a lot of other ifbb pro bodybuilders to create a plan. be honest with yourself and say look man, What's your career earnings looking like right now if majority of guys, not the women, because the income is not why they do it? A lot of women that compete.
they may not make as much on stage, But they can make more online, because girls will buy leggings like merch non-stop over guys. but with guys, I want them to just take a sheet of paper and write down their career earnings and then ask themselves How much money would they like to make? And what do they make with their sponsors, and then go through that hero's journey of saying you're a bodybuilder But you're also other things, and list those other things, and those got to be your goals, too.
You got to fill that enormous void that's left behind. Yeah.
Otherwise you're gonna be like mickey roark in the wrestler, Like you're gonna be that guy that just keeps coming back And those judges got to move someone up and move someone down. We need a new story. They can't keep you up there forever. So your life expectancy just the stress alone of doing shows man. You're giving up stuff.
You want to get to a point where maybe you're in your early 40s, like myself, and realize I can still apply this crazy, Semi-narcissistic attitude to something more productive that can serve a greater purpose. and technically my nickname is the gift. Where am I giving? if I can give service, like even in this podcast? I'm happy if I can be of service to some person at a children's hospital.
I'm happy if I can create a product or a service that's going to make you better, more confident. I'm happy also having this documentary every time I watch it.
I tear up to be able to see your life told like that, and it's worthy of that, and it has all my friends in it.
Yeah, even guys that I didn't like. I didn't like kai green. Oh, I love kai. That's a. did you like the rivalry?
Yeah, I had no idea it existed. I had seen kai in other documentaries and I just liked his spirit. He seems like so sweet. Also. I didn't realize he even had that side.
You guys are like pushing each other on stage. Yeah, he was the one that called you. that shows his character. It was really impressive. That was a moment.
I'll never forget, and I remember telling my wife I said, you know, What's wild is that he was the only one, and I still feel this way. I would be the one knock on wood. God forbid, something bad happened to him. I'd be by his bed, because it's honor, honor and respect go a long way with me, and he and I Elevated the sport in a different way during the drop-off, with the magazines and the influx of social media. It was just.
Incredible. No, it's getting like ufc fight style the promotion, the shit talking.
Could you imagine if we would have fabricated some of that, leaned in, like if we would have leaned in real hard on that by The time? I think that could have happened. He had moved away. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, there was so much more meat on that bone.
Yeah, no, it's crazy. You got the real sense, like are these dudes gonna fight on stage? or what are they gonna flex? What's happening here?
What is this tournament about now? and if he walked in your house right now, i'd be like get this fucker out. We would say that, but no furniture would be moved. But it's just great to know someone that wanted something so bad that you can relate to.
That's the thing is, your enemy happens to also be the one of 10 dudes on planet earth that know exactly what your experience is, Your rivals, but it's bullshit. You guys have more in common than any two people standing anywhere on planet earth.
Like what magneto and professor x? you can't really be friends, but you can sit down. maybe have a yeah, a chat.
Well, phil, this has been awesome. I love the documentary breaking olympia.
When does it come out? march 26 on everywhere, but netflix. you got to watch it. I'm pumping this up because i'm just so happy. No, it's great, and my daughter left it.
Well, I got the best endorsement because she came out and wanted to flex exactly. she was pumped man.
Like. she hit the most muscular and I know she loved it. She's athletic. All right.
Well, phil, what a pleasure talking to you. I wish you luck with everything and can't wait to watch this incredible transition that you're right in the middle of. no. Thank you.
Stay tuned to hear miss monica correct all the facts that were wrong. That's okay, though. We all make mistakes.
All right, we're ready. we're ready, okay, perfect you sleepy. I just got a little sleepy.
Yeah, I want. the sun is not out. It's supposed to come out.
Do you know? the sun never once came out in seven days in austin? really? No, never. it was the most overcast i've ever seen any place, for seven days straight.
Resulting, though, in one good lightning storm on saturday night. That's really fun. Yeah, it just it says it's sunny.
Yeah, and that's a lie, that's a lie. Let me see if mine says sunny. Okay, Yeah, mine says literally the word sunny first thing that pops up bright sun, and that's not what we got outside brightness of sun.
And it's a lie. It also says it says it's unhealthy for sensitive groups right now, and that's me.
that's weird because It's been cool and overcast. doesn't it feel like good air? I wonder if that's including all the pollen in the air.
Good thing, i'm wearing sunscreen. So.
Do you wear sunscreen every day? No, I don't. if i'm gonna be very, very exposed, I'll do my face and just my right arm with all my tattoos. That's if you're like, out in the sun. Yeah, if i'm in in more than just like if I hike, no, yeah, no, I know I don't.
oh, people are gonna blast me for this.
Okay, we ready, i'm, i'm ready.
Okay, let's start with the fact that there was just no such thing as sunblock Until 60 years ago. Okay, So somehow humans were living just fine, and then you might go well, they were getting skin cancer a lot.
Probably they didn't know it was skin cancer.
They just died. Well, that's true. I just sometimes I have a hard time accepting that, like we have to have this thing that we've never, ever had. Does that make any sense? before you blast me, i'm gonna blast you on that.
Okay, but hold on.
People didn't even have hats. they didn't have hats. They didn't have sunglasses. They lived out. They lived outside.
All i'm saying is you have to recognize, like we were designed to be outside in the sun all day long, without sun. Yeah, for 30 years.
No, yeah,
People died are much younger. We have talked about this. That's a very misleading thing that gets bandied about. People lived till their 70s all the time. The infant mortality rate was so bad that it cuts the overall length of age in half.
So if you were to get rid of the people that died before 10 years old, then looked at how long people lived in Any at any point in human history, they're living to 60 and 70. still. it's very misleading. Well, whatever, i'm just not. You know, we just sometimes we go like well, we have to have this thing.
It's like, well, it's okay to rewind like 100 years. No, we actually didn't have this thing and we never have had this thing. And so the notion that we have to have it now, is it beneficial, sure? does it reduce skin cancer? I bet.
but also, are almost all of us low in vitamin d. Yes, everyone I know that gets a blood panel finds out they're low in vitamin d. So that seems to be kind of pandemic levels of low vitamin d. So I go like you're tossing up. Are you what?
Do you want to be low in vitamin d your whole life, or mitigate the chance of getting skin cancer? I don't know. There's been long enough term. Look at all this to see which one's worse. All that to say, I don't let myself get burnt.
I never get burnt ever So, however, i'm doing and i'm planning it pretty well. Like, if I know i'm going to be outside for five hours, I'll put some black on, but if I take a hike and i'm out for 90 minutes, I don't get burnt in that time. All right, let her rip. I'll sure hear about it in the comments.
I mean it helps with skin cancer, but also just your skin.
Yeah, I think I would have less wrinkles and would age more gracefully if I never let my face get tan. I acknowledge that. Yeah, it's a huge part of skin care. people are super into skin care, like the sun's, the devil exactly. Yeah, it is like, oh my god, man.
I gotta get out of the sun. Yeah, which again, I just gotta, I gotta remind everyone We lived outside. Yeah, but we're like every animal young, I agree.
Like we, our society is pretty obsessed with staying youthful and looking youthful. agreed, whether that's right or wrong.
That is what a lot of us want. Yeah, i'll just observe some people that they're like they're outdoors and they're getting sun on their face, and you would think they were like an albino mole that lives underground, like, You know, you're. you are designed to live outside. Just throwing that out there as a reminder.
I. I brought this up because I myself am not very good about sunscreen.
Well, no, I feel like if I had your skin color, I would wear Skun screen because I would like to be a little tan. I look way better a little tan. so if i'm gonna live in 50 sunblock, my face is gonna be ghostly white, with yellow spots all over it and brown freckles and Mess. but if I was had your base skin color, then maybe I wouldn't care as much. Well, I.
Struggle, you know, it's like you want to find a sunscreen. that's not gonna break you out, or that's for me the issue. So I skip it a lot because i'm scared. It's gonna mess my skin up. Yeah, but I found one i'm currently using that I like.
it has a tint. You can also do use tinted sunscreen. So you get a little tint. Well, I use tinted Vicky becky. Yeah, there might be spf in that there might be, huh?
Well, then I wear it. Okay, great. Let's assume so. Yeah, so I found a new one. Um, and i'm giving it a whirl.
I'm being better about it now.
I look. I know someone's gonna be listening who's lost a loved one to skin cancer, and they're gonna be so upset that i'm saying This out loud. Yeah, probably no, am I gonna dig myself deeper by pointing this out?
Who do you want to be in this world?
Myself.
Okay,
Um, that's my dedication. great, so, So myself speaking Yeah, if you lost a loved one to skin cancer, Of course, you would be very upset to hear someone be lackadaisical about it. Yeah or not? take it seriously, Yeah, but I would, I just have to push back and go. but also more people died in car accidents.
So we really do. we pick, but it's not about more people die versus it's not. It's not. it is zero sum. you can take care of your skin and wear sunscreen has nothing to do with.
Car, i'm pointing out the paradox that People have lost someone they love to skin cancer. They feel like they should be telling people to always wear skin block. I acknowledge it, i'd be the same, i'm sure. But if you lose someone in a car accident, you don't tell everyone, you know, don't drive a car.
Uh, you probably say you should wear a seat belt. Well, If you lost someone you love in a car accident, My guess is that you have strong feelings about seat belts and like probably strong feelings about I mean you can die with a Seat belt. I mean you can just die in a car. It's a lot safer. It's a lot less likely if you're, while wearing a seat belt, same with the sunscreen.
Okay, so then let's, you don't like that example. Let's For me. people that die in car accidents die with seat belts on.
That a lot. don't a lot. don't a lot. do the preventative nature of a seat belt.
I'm, just saying you can wear a seat belt and still die in a car accident.
It doesn't inoculate you from death. You can wear sunscreen and get skin cancer. The whole point is helping your chances, right?
And then i'm just saying we go through the list and it's like well, We'd also be at heart disease way before we would be at skin cancer for total deaths. And so I don't like, Because my father died of heart disease and cancer. take your pick. they're both happened at the same time. I don't like tap anyone on the shoulder Who's eating?
Too much fat and go like hey, you know, my dad died of heart disease. You're gonna get heart disease.
Well, if that person is saying out loud, it doesn't matter. You might say that you're painting a very specific circumstance where you Are declaring something out loud?
Here's exactly what i'm saying. if you look at the five biggest killers in life, We don't ever feel entitled to tell those people not to do the things that lead to those five biggest killers. people aren't Randomly policing each other online about what they're eating, Or that they're driving in a car, or that they're doing any number of the many high probability Sources of death. well, I disagree.
I think people are very vocal about, Very vocal about what people should be eating when people shouldn't be eating, and also Don't text and drive and don't like it's. there's a lot of that out there, I see, but also I agree. I don't think it's a great thing to just be constantly like hey, watch out for this. This happened to me. Hey, watch out for this.
This happened to me. But if someone is actively saying something to me That I know someone in my life died because of this, I would feel compelled to do that. I wouldn't just be putting it out there for no reason. right this specific case you're speaking on.
Sunscreen. Yeah, I guess i'm probably not. Um, i'm not conveying the point i'm making. very well, clearly, I guess maybe if I were already actively making tons of decisions To prevent the most likely ways of dying, It would make sense that I would then get down to the 11th and 12th and the 15th and the 16th. most likely, We're just looking at odds, and i'm a logical human being who's trying to prevent my untimely death.
The smartest way to go about that would go what kills people the most? Okay, so i've got a game plan for that. What kills people the second most? I got a game plan for that, right? I think a lot of people have pretty thorough game plans.
for number 28, it's being positioned as You only have time for like four. so you're prioritizing, but you don't have to prioritize.
Because, well, if you were logical, If you were just hardcore logic, you would start with the most likely thing to kill. you can do it all.
You can do all of it. Well, can you? yeah, what is adding? What is like taking 14 seconds to put sunscreen on in the morning, gonna do like? it's not.
It has nothing to do with the other things. you can then do the other things.
True, true, for the things that you think that are much higher on, I concede to that. I guess my point is, Someone could get. I can see someone getting very wound up about me not using sunblock and not me driving a car. Sure, which I do think there's. there's some interesting, I don't want to say hypocrisy there, but there is some interesting thing that's happening.
I think, if people are are going to get on your case, specifically you, for not wearing sunblock like You know, maybe relax, because it's not your, it's not your body who cares, But I feel that if you're saying sunblock doesn't matter.
Then that is gonna cause someone to say something. No. No, i'm. um, i'm not advising anyone to not wear sunblock. Yeah, everyone wears sunblock and don't drive in a car And don't eat saturated fat and don't do like.
I can list the million things. We shouldn't do if we want to Increase our odds of making it to 100, I guess.
It's just risk reward driving in a car. The risk is worth it to most people. There's no risk to wearing sunscreen.
There's nothing. there's nothing well for me unless you. you're chronically low vitamin d and you're on all these vitamin d supplements That seem to barely move the needle. and I think, well, what if we got it the traditional way, which is sun, the sun, I don't know.
Um, well, anyway, I found a new one. that's pretty good a sunblock. you like that? i'm liking face.
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