Robert Downey Jr. [Rerelease from 6/19/23]

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard. I'm joined by Monica Padman. Hello, Monica.

Hi.

We have incredibly exciting news. Starting on Monday, August 14th, you'll be able to find all new episodes of Armchair Expert free on Spotify and everywhere you get your podcasts. But in the meantime, we decided we wanted to revisit a few of our favorite episodes over the last couple of years.

Yes, it's very exciting for us, because we get to come back to every one, which is really, really fun. And these are some of our faves.

Yes, in case you missed them, these are the ones that we thought were worth re-airing before we go wide on August 14th. Please enjoy some of our best of. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax, Randall Shepard. I'm joined by Monica Lilly Padman.

This is a three-namer.

It is a three-namer. It's with great delight that I announce today we have Robert Downey Jr.

You've been wanting to have him on since day one.

Day one. I'm fascinated with Robert. I love Robert. And I hope you'll find amusing our past friendship. I find it to be one of the more amusing ones I've ever had.

It was a really fun, funny, a little manic in a great way, chat.

It was so fun. I was in the best mood afterwards and he was so lovely and engaging to you, which made me so happy.

He was. Yes. I really liked him a lot.

He's a sweet, sweet, sweet boy. He's also an award-winning actor and producer. The Iron Mans, The Avengers, The Sherlock Holmeses, Tropic Thunder, Chaplin, which he, a performance of a fucking century. Now he has a new show about ding, ding, ding, cars, my favorite topic, called Downey's Dream Cars, where he takes some incredible old vintage cars and restores them and brings them up to a more eco-friendly world.

It's really cool.

Very cool. Even Monica liked it and she's not long for car shows.

I'm not, but I loved it.

Also recommend that people check out Senior, the documentary that Robert made about his father on Netflix, which is very beautiful. And we talk about it at length. Most of all, we're just so happy he's here. So happy. Please enjoy RDJ, Robert Downey Jr.

For July.

For July. Here are your prompts. Prank gone wrong. Prank gone wrong. Sometimes they're well-intentioned, but the execution is not great.

Yeah, I'm excited for this.

A lot of us have made the news, you know? What an exciting event it is to make the news. It's huge. It's huge.

♪ He's an armchair expert ♪.

♪ He's an armchair expert ♪.

Rob got you the most delicious thing on this side of town, if you're interested. What's it called, an oven top? Cream top. Cream top from Maru Coffee. It's the greatest thing in the world.

What kind of milk?

It's just cream.

It's like a whipped cream that they make on top. So it's dairy.

Also, we have Keurig. You don't have to drink it. You want a nice espresso?

You got fucking big balls.

I'll tell you that, Monica.

There's water too.

Do you want a Keurig fresh brew? No. What are you going to do? I'm worried about your caffeine. Do you want a matcha?

We can split it.

Weird if I shit on Trevor?

Yeah, that's going to be audio-wise. It's going to be hard for us. Not for me.

It would be a first time. We like first timers.

Do I have to wear these fucking headphones?

You don't have to do anything, Robert. But I'm not shocked. you're already fucking bucking the system. There's been 600 motherfuckers came in here before you that had no problem with the headphones. Prince Harry among them.

You don't notify the guests that you're already recording?

Of course not.

That's so sinister. How often are these changed out?

I know. This is an embarrassment.

And that's a great question.

Those have been changed out recently. You're a goddamn liar. Rob's a rascal and a liar. You shouldn't believe him. You guys took them for a walk.

I do want a different pair. Oh, this is very exciting.

Oh, my God.

So I've been seeing. I want a different pair.

I've known you, for, I want to say 17,, 18 years now, which might shock you because I've done math. I didn't know this side of you. I didn't know.

I haven't even seen them and I don't like them. They're the exact same as these.

What's your problem with those?

I need two pairs.

Okay, great.

I thought you were worried about germs, but you're worried about size.

No.

What is he worried about? It's really hard to figure out what he's worried about.

Are there covers over these? Oh my God. Or is this just a felt pad?

Would you be more comfortable if we put masks on for COVID? I have masks in the house. Should we get those?

If I was worried about that, I'd have brought masks for everybody, because your masks were bullshit masks.

No, these are KN-96s. Most people have KN-95s. We have KN-96s.

Monica, I'm so pleased to be meeting you.

That is so kind.

And I've been studying you.

Oh, my God.

What have you learned?

Yeah, what have you learned? Well, I'm in your closet. I'm following you around. I'm listening to your dulcet tones.

You're in my closet. That means you found me on Instagram? Yeah.

Which, by the way, how I got to Instagram, I'm not sure. I tried to get on Instagram to watch Richard Lewis. A long story. So which one of these is fucking on?

I would recommend the ones that are plugged in. Oh my God.

I'm gonna try these for a second, but they just- Give him a whirl. They smell like your fucking dog.

You're dusting off your chaplain character for this. You've got a big nest of cords over there now.

Why is this an improvement?

Don't you like the way it sounds?

Do you want a sincere answer?

My head hurts.

Okay.

It's like wearing a headband.

Would you like an aspirin?

This has already been great.

We got enough.

Rob's got big balls.

The biggest.

Brings me, what is this?

Cream top.

A yak milk cream top. Like, that was so beyond random. It's like, this is what you would drink.

No, no, it's what Dax drinks. So I got an extra for you. And we're kind of similar. I hate to break this to you.

Last question.

Yeah, okay, we're there. We're at the last question. See, the show comes up June 22nd. Thanks guys.

How do you kick this thing off? usually? Because so far you have nothing. And I think Rob would agree with me.

No, you're completely wrong. You don't know shit about shit. Now. you're a genius in a lot of spaces, but you're out of your depth right now. We know how to make a fucking hot, steamy podcast.

I want to try on some of your clothes.

Anytime.

Are they here?

No, you'd have to come to my apartment.

All right, but the weird thing is, usually, if I think about something or say it, it's there.

I know, I know.

So this is already...

But I'm a tough cookie, and I don't just bend to the whims of rich, powerful men.

White men love that.

Especially the white ones. That's right.

Kind of flattering. It's a nice, it's a mixed bag, right?

I thought you should take it as a compliment. You've done a lot.

So when does Ola Music need their stand back?

That's too deep of a reference. What's Ola Music?

I don't know. All right. You ready? No, I'll tell you guys when this starts and what part of it you can use to start it.

Just cue me when it's my turn to enter. But I do have a real sincere question.

What would you have ordered at the coffee shop? Nothing. Oh, you don't like coffee.

No, I love coffee. I just wouldn't order something at a coffee shop. Oh.

Too pedestrian? Too unpredictable? You think people are trying to poison you?

Well, first of all, this woke muffin top, fucking swatte or whatever it is, that just tells me who you are.

Okay.

Who Rob is.

And who are we?

You're my friend.

Oh my God. I'm like, I'm bracing for impact, yet it seems like they're compliments, yet more impact. And now we're gonna drink it. After all that fucking pageantry. Of course we're gonna drink it because we're a fucking addict and there's not gonna be anything that's not sampled once.

Is there beer in there?

I still can't get the fucking, I was supposed to be ready in time for you, but the CO2 barrel isn't in there. I was hoping you and I could drink pints of NA while we were doing this interview.

What's NA?

Non-alcoholic beer. I don't know. You don't fuck with an NA? No. Have you ever?

I have. And you don't like it? I have a huge moral judgment on it. Oh, you do?

Tell me, tell me. No, I don't. Oh, because someone did give that to me. I ran into a dude from the program at a restaurant or something. I was drinking an O'Doul's and he said to me, you know what they say about near beer?

Hold on. I'm ready whenever you are. Oh gosh.

Rob, this is too much. We can't even get him settled. No, no, no, no, right now. It's too early for this. No, no, no, no.

You take a picture of me right now. Look, are you ready?

And then over here, let's grab one over here.

Oh, wow.

You don't have to take any of me, Rob. I'm easy.

Part of me.

Yeah.

I just don't want it to start, because then at some point it's gonna end. Aw.

That's beautiful. But do you know what? It doesn't ever have to end.

It's a holiday weekend.

These are gonna be the best photos ever taken.

They are.

Who was that last character we just saw?

Not sure. Maybe Elsie Downey.

Oh, your mom. Is that mom?

Yeah, mom. Might've been a little mom in there.

I'm gonna now insist we hit play, okay?

Wait, can we just listen back to what we've done so far?

Absolutely. Go to Video Village and watch playback. Okay, I think it's relevant. People can already hear the playful banter between you and I. They know there's an established relationship, so where does it come from?

Take care of that before you say your sincere thing.

What's that, my tobacco? Yeah. On my full white outfit, I work literally for you because you dress so funky. I'm like, I'm gonna go all white. And then you clearly dress like I dress today.

I'm not saying another word.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

Ever.

Listen.

I thought you were gonna said that you might cry.

I predicted that as well.

Weren't we there too?

Yes, I really thought that's what you were gonna say.

Okay, I've not told you this ever intentionally, because I think it would weird you out enormously, but I need to tell it because it's one of my favorite stories, okay? This is not a bit. We get Bree on the phone for this. I have been having reoccurring dreams about you since I was 14 years old. Once a month, in through my 20s, I would wake up, I'd tell Bree like, yeah, I had one of these fucking Robert Downey dreams again.

I'm a puffy, but fuck them all. Yeah, totally.

I mean, I would have these dreams and, Robert, they were the same. every single time. I bump into you out of nowhere. We start chatting and it's immediate. Oh wow, we're soulmates.

A little movie.

Oh yeah, yeah, a little tiny upstart. So we go over there, we spend the evening together. We have no connection.

I thought we did.

Wait, I know, I remember it better than you do, because obviously, there's a status imbalance. So naturally, I remember every moment of this and you don't.

We are soulmates, by the way, but continue.

Okay, on the ride home from the Favreaus, I'm observably kind of sad and Bree says to me, oh honey, I'm sorry that didn't go as your dreams always did. And I go, yeah, kind of interesting. I don't think he gave a fuck that I was there, right? Bear with me. Two months later, I go to visit Jon on set of Iron Man.

Yes, where they built the Spruce Goose.

Exactly. You and I are walking, you're leaving set, I'm walking towards set. We cross each other and I'm so certain that I made no impact, that it occurs to me, I'm gonna have to remind him that we met. So as I'm crossing you, I say to you, hey, I'm Dax, we met at Jon's the other night and you said, and I'll never forget, oh, I remember, you were the guy getting all the attention I'm used to getting.

Oh, fuck.

And my soul took flight, wings came out of my back and I was like, there it is. And from that moment on, in my version of events, then we became friends.

If you call us friends and not soulmates,

one more shot on this interview.

Isn't it wild, dude? Why wouldn't we tell each other? It's those things, because everything is known. So I've known unconsciously that you've been dreaming about me since you were 14.. And then I probably thought, well, this is probably what made him so numinous and all this stuff.

That's right, your influence on him.

You know, I came in so smart, assy and manic, and now I'm in my body.

Oh, wonderful.

And listening and connected. I'm even gonna try this horse shit coffee.

It's horse milk.

But here's the problem nowadays. I can't even tell where the drink hole is on this. Oh, here it is.

There's so much cream.

There is. And froth. It takes a bit to get to the actual coffee. Fuck, that's good. Yeah, I know.

And now, with your permission, Robert, I'd like to go through a couple highlights after that moment.

Hold on one second. first. How do you feel the subliminal dialogue is going on with us being reintroduced with him in the high status position?

You're all switched around.

With you there backing his play, I'm gonna try to focus most of my energy on you, but I'm gonna need a little feedback.

So far, we're at 100%. I think we're doing really good.

Notes?

No notes yet.

Notes.

No notes yet. I've done a couple edits already in my head. Of course.

Monica edits the show, by the way. Oh, I know. Okay, great. Yeah, so I will sometimes look at her and she has a look on her face that I know. the scissors are out and I should wrap it up because it's not gonna see the light of day anyways.

Either I've checked out or I'm staring daggers into his eyes. Like, why are you still talking?

Yes, that's happened several times.

All right, in case you're wondering where we're at in the edit, you're on Highlight Reel.

Do you have any memories of those two things? Of course. Okay, then we chat a lot on set that day and then you invite Brie and I really quickly thereafter to your birthday party. And I am like, I cannot believe I've been invited to your birthday party. We go to, this is why I can't tell you any of this stuff.

I literally would have had no idea.

In the line of what you're saying, from day one, we had like five people that were dream guests and you were on the list and I was like, well, can you just ask him? I know, you know him. You could just ask. And he refused to just ask you.

Do you need to take that?

Yeah. Okay, sure.

She is another, she's on another show right now as well. She does have other shows.

Well, they're all under our umbrella.

Yeah, but they're your shows. And I thank you for them. They're our shows. Because I do take a little piece of her shows.

so it all works out. They're our shows.

Our shows. This is what it is like on set with us two without a very strong director presence. is we're just kind of two loose balloons that we know that the helium impact is going to ignite the atmosphere. So we're just kind of dancing. until the moment that the strings get cut, we hit the ceiling and light up the ionosphere.

Oh, isn't that beautiful? And burn out quick.

Super quack. And our voices get all high. So you were gonna do a fucking highlight. So, God, Jesus, where are we?

Okay, so.

It's not linear.

I think I need to fast forward now. So initially we get to meet each other through Favreau and then we stay in touch a little bit. Because I guess if I was on the outside and I learned we were friends, I would assume it was from sobriety. But that, weirdly, was not.

I can neither confirm nor deny my participation in 12-step program.

Okay, let me handle that for both of us. Let me bust the fuck out of your anonymity. Okay, what's really important now is that then we have a second mutual friend. And this friend is everything.

He's the most important human being on planet Earth.

The male that we're probably both modeling ourselves after.

Three, two, one.

Tom Hanson. Oh.

Esquire.

You know, I talk about him so often on here. I mean, I can't stop. So tell us for how long you've known Tom.

I've known Tom for the entirety of my career. He is an entertainment lawyer. He's, I'm sure, as you've described him, he is a gorgeous one-time ne'er-do-well. He's the only person in our industry who has no known enemies. He's brilliant.

The thickness of his hair.

I know.

It's insane.

But it's everything. I've always said that he is the most successful person I know personally, professionally.

As a dad to his daughters.

Yeah, and his moral psychology is really the thing.

Yeah, I know. I love him so much.

So then.

So how do we show our respect for him? Let's fast forward how we honor him. We are both lucky enough to get invited to his, was it a 4th of July? Was it New Year's Eve?

Yeah.

I think it was 4th of July-ish. Sounds like 4th of July. It was a holiday in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. I was staying there. You were at a hotel with Susan.

It's what soulmates do.

There's no explanation. They just are following the fucking blueprint of some celestial plan they're not even aware of.

It was one of those testosterone moments where people just gather around to see, is this where they've had to get in their fast friendship? I think it's like,

well, we know we can't fuck each other, so what else is left?

I'm gonna speak for yourself. You may be tall, but you're worth the climb.

Well, we should add we're there with our wives.

Look, here's all I remember. It happened. You're a game person. I don't know if people know this enough about you, but you are someone that should not be taken lightly. You're also tall and strong.

Hillbilly, Gene.

Okay, this is a terrible combination. for someone who would think you were something else. And I know a lot of folks like that that are from Michigan or Tennessee or whatever. They just have this thing that urban people don't have in a way because the urban thing is everyone's bouncing up against and it's really hard to discern. That is a terrible blanket statement.

Absolutely, and I have thought about this.

Who got the better of the exchange? I want you to say it.

I can only tell you, like the proudest moment of it for me personally. Please. I was on top of you in the kitchen and you said, oh, you're so fucking strong. And I could have like evaporated into pixie dust.

What I do remember is my arms had gassed out from the seemingly never ending strong headlock. I'd had you in. Pretty much from the beginning of the interaction until you fully mounted me.

And were they real moves?

We were going for it.

It went to the floor immediately and stayed there until the end. Okay.

But I need to add, for anyone that might think this was like a 20 second thing, a 30 second thing,

people- Six minutes.

At least in vegan, shit is getting knocked over. We're not in our house. We're in Tom and Judy's beautiful home and stuff's falling off of counters. We have not brought the food back that we're supposed to bring back. And now I start hearing, I think, Kristen, you almost done in there.

We are very similar. And I also feel that there's very much a six degrees thing with us, in that I can easily imagine a brilliant future for me that wasn't realized where I would be sitting in that chair and you would be sitting in this chair. And I think there's an understanding. We both share the same brain disease. We both have the same kind of semi-tamed, wild, manic energy.

Powerful.

Yeah, and they tend to come from things that happened organically and morphed into something else and morphed into something else. And then it's this realization of, all I fucking need is us.

Do you think there's something for me? there is, I can bond and share with Kristen or, in this space, with Monica. I have maybe a harder time doing that with men. Like. there's probably been a lot of men that have come through my life that could probably have helped me in many ways that I couldn't either avail myself to, or it would look like cowardice or weakness.

Yeah, I was in a couples therapy session with Susan night before last. And maybe for the first time ever, I realized about 40 minutes in, I hadn't really said much and it was going great.

Uh-huh, uh-huh.

And they were kind of figuring me out and he was going, you know, I never really put it together. You know, with Robert, he doesn't really that bad. And I was kind of like, this is great. I'm not starting a fight to show that something needs to come up and be addressed so we can find some homeostasis. I'm not trying to state my opinion with righteous indignation.

Oh, I was curious if that was you on a Zoom with your therapist.

Yeah, because he respects himself. He's not, he's not trying to.

I wondered if it was your therapist.

Me too.

Anyway, Kenyon said, you know, from the outside, it looks like you have this series of missteps, and then you were in jails and institutions and then you did a superhero movie and your life turned around. He goes, I track that as just a by-product of. you finally got into a relationship with somebody who understood how to meet your needs without coddling you and how to have separateness within your unity and how to have definitive black and white boundaries with you.

I've observed this, spending time with you and Susan. When I'm around the two of you, I go, these two were really made for each other. Certainly, Robert needs her. She was made for each other.

How does she implement boundaries? Can you give an example?

Here's my favorite one, I'll say this. When I'm in one of my moods, she will not engage. She will not follow me down a rabbit hole.

Oh, wow.

And it comes off to me as neglect. This was one of the big kind of breakthroughs. I mean, you'd think we'd have gotten to this before, but you know, like you hear it and you say it and you feel it and you agree to it, and you sign off and you check all the boxes, but you still haven't processed it and integrated it. She is just naturally not prone to enmeshment and dysfunction, and it is stunning.

It's like she's staring at the teacups at Disneyland. She's like, yeah, I'm not getting on that ride. I'll get nauseous. Why the fuck would I get on that ride with him?

Not to assign roles. And again, I just think relationships are everything, particularly if the relationships are based on a deep trust in how consistent we will be with each other. Doesn't mean that we can't fall away a field and be admitted back, but we're not admitted back with the same rules as before. We're constantly updating and integrating this thing because we're hell bent on improving ourselves via each other. So when you find someone that really can do that.

We're about to. We're just, I only have three more. I only have three more questions and then we'll start.

Okay.

I guess I just want to take us next after the wrestling match.

Now, I'm scared it's gonna end.

Thank you. It's never gonna end, guys. Okay, we can relax.

It certainly isn't gonna end with him on top, because while he has improved his martial arts skills, 0% since then.

But I'm twice as strong as I was then.

That has nothing to do with anything. I have been on a trajectory of mastery.

Will you tell people what was your martial arts?

No, I will not.

Oh, that's even deeper than the alcoholics.

No, it felt like a gratuitous ask. I'm passing on that question.

You know what? I'm glad you're passing, because then we would just probably end up debating different martial arts. and who the fuck wants to listen to that?

And you would be incorrect about all of it.

So it would be pointless. I concede, I concede. I idolize you, I concede. I won't try to dominate you to get you to like me. Next, what happens in our story, which is really, really important to me, is I get to be in one of your movies, and you're a big part of why I got to be in that movie, The Judge.

You are as well-rounded and capable an actor as I have or will ever work with.

Oh, come on.

And I think, you wouldn't hear it from me because you already knew that I loved you, but I think by the time you could tell that Duvall was acknowledging you. Now, part of it was that you were at close proximity to him.

And his lawyer in the scene.

But even better was when I could tell he would start talking shit about me and you would go along with it, which is when I actually finally felt perfect.

Your job was done. Yeah. Probably the highlight of that whole experience was Billy Bob Thornton saying the internal dialogue of Duvall while he was sitting there in the courtroom. And it went something like this. I don't know how that horse bucked Rex.

That's the other thing too. I love this idea of, you know, I'm number one on the call sheet. It's called The Judge. It's about Duvall, but it's my fucking movie. Now, Duvall is the legendary artist in this movie.

Who's floating in on a magic carpet.

Yeah, but also, by his own admission, the most neurotic person you will ever meet. So, in a way, it's also shows. our neuroses informs our ability to do certain things well, maybe even not at the bleeding edge of the cultural expectation, but there is always a cost. And managing that cost is what makes you cool. That's what's actually great about Billy Bob is he is as comfortable in his own skin as you could ever be, while being very forthright about all of his phobias, fears.

Oh, he can give you one example. And I think he would not mind this. Here's prime example is he'll go like, you ought to move out of that hotel room. There's too much fabric in there. I was thinking all the diseases and everything.

If you're lucky in life, in the middle of any moment where you're being spotlighted, you can imagine how much cooler it would be if the person you're talking about just showed up. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And that is a guy who it's impossible that he wouldn't be one of your best interviews ever.

Billy Bob.

Just giving you an idea.

I know, maybe you could-.

We were gonna go to his house. I can help. Out in the West side at one point. Yeah, yeah.

By the way, Jane Fonda, great. The guy that you were all just talking to about the Supreme Court.

Yes, Michael Waldman.

That guy's incredible, no?

I have to tell you, there's a lot of different podcasts out there and I love making sport a podcast. I need to, whatever it is that I'm doing, I need to act like- Elevate it. Yeah, exactly, right?

Yeah, like on Sam Jones, you said you hate impressionists solely because you can't do any impressions. Yes.

But that to me was so definitive because you are bringing something where you are so prepared. When you say we're not experts, truth be told is, everybody loves an expert, but to be a generalist where you can actually hold these kind of conversations for the layman, I'll call myself just for five seconds, the layman who's in his dry sauna-.

Yes, yes, yes.

For 40 minutes just going, wow, I didn't really know any of this, and this is so important.

Agreed. Was that the most challenging role of your career, playing the layman for 30 seconds?

Challenging. By the way, you are going to be my vocal coach for this next job. I do. I'll tell you why. offline.

I'm gonna have so many hats on this next project.

For the acting part-.

Is this for Vertigo?

I just need you to go to the top of really tall buildings and tell me what it's like.

Aren't you honored?

I'm incredibly honored. What I'd like to do is, what if you could give me the medical condition of Vertigo and make me do all your blocking? Like send Shepard up. He's got really bad, Vertigo. Put him on that ladder.

First of all, that is literally beneath you. I would want, by the way, and I would take this seriously too.

Wait, really quick. Trevor, your friend is here. Yes. And a producer on Downey's Dream Cars.

He's been with us forever. The great thing about Trevor was he, cold, called Team Downey. Fuck, yes.

Oh, I love that.

I've been waiting for someone like you to enter my world like that. Excuse me, that was me. I know, but you're too rich now. You don't do a fucking thing. Oh!

She's got the house across the street. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

I did buy the house, so I am done.

Yeah, she's done.

Yeah, right.

She's building a house across the street, Robert.

This is the American dream.

It really is. Yes. It really is.

And I think you and I, because this is one of the topics I want to talk about. Do we wrap everything up? Time to switch gears?

I'm sorry, am I running out of show now? Ernie, Ernie.

Yeah.

Vertigo is done.

Vertigo done, okay.

It's not vertigo. I'll tell you what it is, but he is someone from Indiana, Michigan area, and he is a retired detective. And I want to talk a lot of shit. I need to be able to improvise. And you are going to be, I don't want to say dialect, coach.

Oh, my God. Hi. Can I be on a microphone somewhere in these scenes? Yeah, okay.

Can I be your stylist?

Oh, absolutely. Okay. And will I only wear your small petite frame clothes? Correct. See, that's a new twist on this guy.

Mixed messages. So many things, yeah. It's not just that you dress like a gal. It's that you dress as a very small gal. that doesn't fit you.

I have body dysmorphia.

It's a lot of different things.

Trevor, that's where we were.

Trevor, yes. So Trevor Cold called Team Downey, which is incredible. Yep.

And lo, these many years later.

How many? 11.. You were there during the judge? Technically, yeah. Technically, yes.

By the way, I'll tell you, by accident, Trevor wound up being the only assistant that has ever been on a Chris Nolan set.

Wow.

Congratulations. That's huge.

And even for Chris, it was such an anomaly that when he saw him, wondering why I didn't just disappear. It was almost like that Chaplin thing. And Trevor told me what the moment was like, because he had a reason to be there on this important day and I had cleared it. But I think Trevor wanted to just put a lampshade on his head and pretend he wasn't there. But at that point, hair director knew who Trevor was.

You're strong. We're going to have you in separately to spill the tea or whatever they say.

You can come on.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

What's that fucking crazy dog of yours name that we met? Frank. Are we going to have any cutaways to Frank here at any point?

Always. We've got like a treasure trove of cutaways. Yeah. You know, if you don't mind, that we recycle a few of them.

Wait, we're really going to do that. We're going to have to add that in.

I would appreciate it.

So all I wanted to do, I wanted to thank you publicly because you were really instrumental in me getting to be in that movie. I became best buddies with D'Onofrio. I fucking love him so much. I know you do too.

That's another. You could just go down the D'Onofrio rabbit hole. And, by the way, no one is going to be more pissed off that you're my acting coach for my next job than Vince D'Onofrio.

Well, no, Jeremy Strong's going to be a little bummed too.

Jeremy's too busy.

Okay.

Jeremy's too big for us now.

Okay, well, okay. Yeah, maybe you'll be his acting coach.

Can I say something to you? I do need to do a little sidebar. Day, one of shooting, almost, there's a funeral. Jeremy's there. He's not even working that day and he's taking pictures and he's in character.

Totally. That's one of my favorite things. You would have no idea because you just started listening to the show in anticipation of coming here, which I do appreciate. That's more work than most people do. But had you been listening to all 600 episodes, you would know that I regularly use you as an example, which is you had the confidence to go like, look, I've tried every version.

There's part of what we're doing that's really important and needs to be revered. And then there's part of what we're doing where we're essentially game show hosts. And I think that sweet spot between how serious is this really? But strangely enough, going back to Nolan, the Nolan thing was like being off book for a three-act play.

Oh, my God.

And that's only because I was wondering, am I one of those people who has lost the ability to function because I've become so lazy and have so many crutches? And the answer was a definitive no. I am intact.

You're fully functional and firing on all six cylinders.

Wow. We knew that within the first five seconds of you coming in here.

I want to apologize for coming in a little scattershot and Rob.

12.. Oh, wow.

Right in the puberty transition.

Those dreams are different.

Do you want to do a three-way leg lock with me in the Dax later? Yes, please.

Listen, when this concludes, 9 or 10 p.m. tonight, we will be going out into the grass back there and I'm going to get out of these white slacks and it's going to be a battle royale. We're going to see.

The idea that you think it's going to make it to the ground this time is what I find enticing.

I love it. Okay, you didn't let me finish publicly thanking you. You're going to think this is hyperbolic, that I'm trying to just flatter you. This is truly my story. If I ever wrote an autobiography, this would be part of it.

We help each other, consciously or not, right? Which I guess means we also hurt each other, consciously or not. That's the thing to keep an eye on.

Yeah, I guess it goes both ways.

God, this tastes like Frank's asshole.

As you chug it. Okay.

If you look at that fucking $50,000, watch one more time, I'm leaving.

This is the first time I looked at it, and it's because I'm trying to be conscientious.

Twice would be too many.

This is a $1,000 fake old watch.

Okay, are you giving me that one? It's yours.

I want you to have it.

I'd like you to have this elevator clipped. You know, because I have some questions for you, motherfuckers too.

Oh, my God, good, you brought a binder.

I have a crotch full of Nicorette wrappers.

Yeah, boy, get the two of us together and just someone's gotta be walking around with a 50 gallon trash can with all the fucking-.

Are you a constant?

No, you are.

Hundreds of pieces a day.

Did he just take the watch off and then put it back on?

I was gonna throw it to you and I realized you were out.

Don't think about this answer. Who's more neurotic, him or me?

I know him better than you, so I should say you, because he'll be mad at me.

I won't be mad. But I think you're more neurotic than me. I say this also about you behind your back. I don't know how we would evaluate it, but let's say that there's a spectrum, zero to 10 for addiction. And I got it pretty bad.

That's funny that you say that, because when I watched the movie, Senior, I thought, oh, his addiction is more based in his life or like his youth, as opposed to his chemicals. I thought the opposite.

Oh, you thought like genetically? But just think his dad. We learned in Senior, an addict.

First of all, she's right. Oh, okay, great. So let's just go on that basis.

Wonderful. There we go. Then I have no follow-up.

Is that gonna be okay for you?

Absolutely. Her win is my win. We're a team.

But you're the same. You're the same with the gum. You guys are probably on the same level.

That's what I'm saying is, if you put us in his trailer with an espresso machine and unlimited nicotine, I'm just saying, lock the door, because it's gonna all get consumed in the next hour and a half.

The great thing about us is, from the time we've met, we have been on the same trajectory of. there has never been a night where you and I were going to go into the fuzzy deeps of shadow play. We have been basically sound of mind, best as we could be since we met. And we've been on that path. There are just two worlds.

Yeah.

That's it.

Yeah. And you're trying, I'm trying to have the, I still need something. I need to be wrestling my caffeine consumption or my nicotine. I gotta be busy with that.

Yeah. Well, what I also like, look around at the people that are charged with till death. do us part with you. Wife, kids, closest associates. If they are at peace with how we're clucking along, no matter how much coal we're shoving into our weirdo little engine, it's like you go, okay.

Yeah. Okay. That actually brings me to senior. I text you today telling you I watched it while I was working out and was totally crying while lifting. I recommend, I was dead, lifting quite a bit of weight, with tears streaming down my face as I watched you and your father in the bed.

Yeah, I remember. Yep.

So much of it reminded me of that experience, and it's such a multifaceted experience for me, and I'm gonna guess for you, which is first and foremost, the amount of gratitude I have that I was there is maybe the apex of gratitude. I can't believe I was there and I did it right. I have done so many things wrong and there's so many moments in my life I couldn't have been there, but just to get to do that is an enormous gift. Would you agree?

100%. And again, speaking of partnerships, I initially started thinking of conceiving Letting Senior Happen, kind of as a defense mechanism and an avoidance technique, I realize now, and then, at a certain point, between Chris Smith and Kevin Ford, and then really, Susan had this moment where she goes, you know, you can't make a senior documentary like a senior movie, like The Last Hour for us, this very disjointed, nonlinear kind of fest. She goes, you have to think of this in a three-act structure and you have to start thinking about your closure with your dad, whether it's monitored or not, because otherwise, forget that it won't make sense to anyone who ever watches it, it won't make sense to you. And so that last trip to New York and the fact that Exton, our son, wanted to go, it was almost like I got to do it with a generation of Downies that are untouched by the ugliness of addiction.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so it's almost like I needed to be filmed, monitored, and graded doing it in order to do it.

And, by the way, so did your dad.

Yeah.

Which is even deeper. It's wild to see, how much movies is your dad's life. He couldn't frame anything outside of that.

Well, that's what we realized too, was he was only going to talk to us through the language of what film he was doing at that point in his life. And because at the end, the film he was doing was the film about his life, he needed to do something else, because it made no sense. It wasn't a film he was doing. Yeah. I mean, look, it was very Pirandello, play within the play, all that stuff.

Yeah. Yeah, it's really beautiful.

The thing that I started crying thinking about is it felt to me like the movie was maybe one last ditch. effort to understand your dad, as we try to understand our dads and ourselves. That's the journey, right? Yeah. Even your dad says it in the movies, like, I have no clue who I am and I'm not gonna know.

By the way, were you trying to lure me in with a Fugazi? so I could tell you you're wearing a really cool watch and you could tell me it was low rent? Are you trying to play?

I wanted to admit to you that it's a fake gold watch. That's all. I didn't want to be deceptive to you. It's a fake gold watch.

So you wore it so that I would ask you and you would tell me it was a fake.

I wear it every day, every single day, whether you're here or not. And by the way, also, we exist when you're not here. Do you know that, Robert?

It doesn't seem necessary.

When you're not here, we're still here. Can you believe that?

That's your mistake.

Now you've fucked up. the most important thing I wanted to say about this. I, senior, I know what you're doing.

I doubt it. Monica?

He's trying to avoid this.

I'm not, we'll get back to it.

Okay, do you have it? Because I don't want you to listen. Go ahead, no, no. I thought it was so beautiful that your son, how old was he, 11, 12?.

He's 11 now, so he was eight and a half, nine.

And with clarity, saying, I want to be there so that I have memories for when he passes. To hear a very small person be able to articulate that, showing the growth between the three generations, truly.

Maybe the only growth.

No, it's not, that's not true. You see the vulnerability increase throughout those generations, and that's the moment where you're like, oh.

Yeah, it's compounding. It's been done. The growth is compounding. Yes.

And now let me, because we're all in this same kind of business where we're always doing something and we're here in this moment, but I try to always divorce myself from the idea of what will it be like when this is a product. But from the second, I saw that scene with Exton, where he says that, and the whole audience just gets choked.

Yes.