Ambassador Rahm Emanuel

Hi, my name is Rahm Emanuel and I feel a tremendous amount of self-loathing about being Conan O'Brien's friend.

Okay, you, and I hate to say this because you're an ambassador, you've served in many positions for our government. But you prick, how dare you? How dare you say that to me?

Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walk in blues, climb the fence, books and pens. I can tell that we are going to be friends, I can tell that we are going to be friends.

Hey there Conan O'Brien. Here. welcome to Conan. O'Brien. Needs a friend No, Matt Gurley, today?

I'm here, Yeah, no.

And I'm not going water skiing. No, no, you're with me because you believe in me, and you have faith in me, no.

We only got to that conclusion in 42 seconds.

Let me give people a little bit of background, which is a couple of years ago. I do a week of shows in Chicago. And you, as the mayor of Chicago at the time, and you've held many posts, you agreed to come on and give me the Chicago citizenship test. All I remember is huge laughs, huge laughs went over very well. The rest, that's all I remember is laughter.

It was also your best ratings, if I remember correctly.

Let me look that up right now, it's our only ratings, apparently.

That Nielsen thing's really coming in handy.

It really is coming in handy. Also we have a bit of a we have a connection which is and I like to be upfront about that which is-.

I thought we weren't going to talk about that on the show, we are going to.

You have a brother.

Rumor has it.

You have two brothers, of course, one is an incredible brainiac physician man of the world, Zeke, and then your brother. Ari has been voted the most evil man in the world many times by Evil Magazine. And they really know their shit. Ari Emanuel technically represents me, but I thought this wasn't a technically. It's really his friend that does most of the work. And I thought it was okay to still have you on, even though there's a conflict of interest because Ari has not answered my phone calls in about 15 years.

Oh, wow, you're like his brothers.

Exactly.

Welcome into that. Wait a second. But first of all, when you do get up on the phone, yeah, okay.

Yeah.

That's it.

He doesn't listen, yeah, ever since-.

Ari actually knows only like two pronouns and one adjective, so that's all right.

So you come from this family, we'll start with the family because you Emanuels are quite a group. You are three supercharged human beings who've come into life. And I come from a large family and I wouldn't say that that's true of my brothers and I. What happened?

Well, I don't remember it being a cane. My dad actually did say, What are you? a schmuck? and then hit you and that was his way of saying, I love you. So you got to understand you guys right there.

That is a form of love, I get that.

There's a real similarity. I'm going to do it for you. Ready? What are you? a schmuck?

It's funny, yeah, go ahead.

You get the same thing, right?

Yeah, the Irish, I've always thought-.

If you want to love a child, you don't hug it, you hit it.

Exactly on the head.

In the back of the head, with what are you? a schmuck?

There's such a similarity between and a kinship between the Irish and the Jews. And I have found that all my life. So many of my friends are Jewish, because I feel like they understand me. Because growing up Irish and growing up Jewish feels like it's almost the same thing.

Here's the one rule of politics when somebody introduces another ethnicity, you stop and you pull back because it can only get you in trouble. I'll just believe what you just said. I'm not touching it after this.

You're afraid to comment and maybe insult the Irish? Is that what you're afraid of? The great thing about being Irish is that you can't insult us. When someone tells an Irish joke about the Irish being drunks or stupid. Everyone in the room laughs at every other ethnicity, and no one laughs louder than the Irish. How many times have you come in just screaming about what a daily?

She's clearly never run for office. Because I'm not touching it in the city of Chicago. Not a chance. That's smart. Here's what I would, I do think, actually, this is a very serious subject, given what's happened to the American family.

We all hate ari.

And we also are filled with a lot of self-loathing. But I do, I really think this is a very because a lot of quality time. And people try to buy their kids love with material things when kids are really emotionally needy. The other thing is I also as a father of two daughters, they would probably disagree with me. I think a father's relationship with their daughter, starting around, while it's always important, starting really in 12, is more important than a mother's. And I took Alana on a bike trip in Europe.

This is fascinating. I've, like, struck a nerve here, and there's a lot of wisdom-.

You did. Because I actually think people don't deal with probably the most important issue facing our country, which is the breakdown of the family. I don't care how many parents. But there is a value here that cannot be dismissed.

I have this theory, a dumb it down theory.

You didn't want to do this show like this, but this is really what I care about.

You seem angry whenever I speak.

No, I'm just angry.

We'll analyze this later. Every time I start to speak, you come in with something, but I'm going to fight you back. Yeah, we have that in common, we have that, yeah.

We're not on a first name basis. Yes, you start with Ambassador, I'll give you permission to get to Rom, okay?

How about ambassador? And then if we really get just Amby, you're my pal Amby, how about this?

Ambassador, your Excellency, your Excellency, your most regal Excellency. And dude, when I let you get to Rom, we'll know, okay.

Okay, but you're allowed to call me dude. All right, this is fantastic. What a great fucked up relationship this is, I will tell you-.

All in favor, say Aye ayes have it.

Oh, I see how things work in Chicago. You just steamrolled me. No, I agree with you, I agree with you completely that it's dumb it down, is my theory. A little bit, which is it's time around with your kids. Even when I'm annoying them and being a total pain in the ass, I know that. Yes, this is our time together.

I will give you one anecdote. When I was mayor, I think Lana was-.

I'm just going to clarify, Mayor of Chicago, I'm just going to give everyone the download.

Well, Chicago is the center of the world and center of the country, so let's just go there, mayor, dumb, mayor. So we went to a Blackhawks game and she brought two friends, et cetera.

Are you getting money from rag and bones right now?

No, but I would like to, OK, or how about just a gift I can arrange that? Don't?

I gave you a gold Rolex when you got here, yeah, and you put it in your pocket and said, Mum's the word.

Every Thursday.

You said, keep it on the down low, O'Brien.

Every Thursday I get a little yellow folder and you're supposed to sign these forms for the State Department. I'm going to get fired, right? We only went five minutes in. And it's for gifts above $25..

I am from Chicago.

We have a number and it starts with seven zeroes, that's incredible. I said, you auto pen this ethics report, man, I am not signing this, I'm not reading it.

By contrast.

And America is not going for a cheap. I mean, I love Croatian sparkling white wine, but it's not going for it.

Okay, I could so easily you could purchase my loyalty with a candied ham.

I would like to be, uh, take a rag and bone on just on November 8th, 2024.

We'll take care of it. Yeah, all right, so it is. Also I wanted to bring this up cause I know this about your family, having done some research, which for me is a lot in that. You were encouraged by your parents when you got to the table to be up on what was happening in the world and discuss so that you could discuss it.

Yes.

And it's funny because there's, I know for a fact, that, being a Kennedy O file, that Joe Kennedy senior did the same thing with his kids. When they came to the table, he wanted them to be aware of what was happening in the world so they could discuss it intelligently. Uh, is that something that you feel, that that helped you a lot? When you were a kid? That you were encouraged, maybe even forced to read up on what was happening in the world and discuss it?

Well, it was, first of all. Also, don't create a mental image. It was not just mom, dad and the three boys, right?

Even if they're not Deer Hunter, of all the movies, that's the one you all vehemently disagree.

Yeah, we vehemently disagree about a lot of things, but that one has become literally taboo and we can't even discuss it.

And this is so great, cause the next time you're giving a speech somewhere, I'm going to be in the crowd, I'm going to go.

Yeah, but back to the family, it's. And first of all, the first most important thing was the fact that we all ate together and we all sat there. And it was actually, you had to be prepared. Starting at a very, very early age. And it wasn't like a kid's table and adult table or kids discussion told me. We also had, like, in the summer, June first week, you had to write the three books down that you were going to read that summer.

We, you know, here's a difference I'm going to, I'm going to posit a difference, maybe, and this could be just my family. But cause there's so many similarities between a Jewish household and an Irish Catholic household, but one difference in my opinion. And this is just my own personal experiences. We didn't, there was no yelling.

Oh.

There was all guys.

Just it just went into the colon.

Yeah, I'm not kidding. It went into the it went into the colon and when I had my first colonoscopy.

I can also be a doctor who knew that that was so quick, without examining or touching your abdomen, and I knew that when I.

I'm telling you it, everything gets repressed. And yeah, my first colonoscopy. They opened me up, you know what? My father's screams come out of my ass.

Get in here.

You all came out in a torrent here.

It is ready and the reason it goes there, as opposed to us.

You guys, get it out.

No, no, no, here's the difference. You guys hold it and then on Sundays you just tell the priest and it's done, you're absolved and you go another week.

But see, this is interesting.

Don't you think that's true? No, I think the difference between a week and a year.

I'm not going to give too much credit to the priests because I would freeze up when I would get into the confessional. And I've talked about this before.

Let's unpack that.

I would get into the watch it, watch it, buddy, that's my religion.

I told you.

I would go into the confessional.

There goes my electoral count.

I would, I would freeze up because I would forget all the things that I was mad about or had transgressed, and I would lie and I'd say.

I stole a lawnmower when I didn't, I never did.

I would try to make it more interesting than it is. But Sona, you come from? I believe it's Armenian. I've never really yelled into this, you know, it's Armenian, I do.

Amy said When we were first, she came to her first family meal. My wife, she said, Why are you and Ari fighting? I said, We're not fighting? No, no, no, you were fighting. I go. No, we were talking.

So I want to go over your resume very quickly. Inform the listeners, Uh, you were, uh, one of the a very, very early advisor to, uh, the Clintons to Bill Clinton back in Arkansas, correct?

I was part of the paint store, there's a group of us that when we first got there, the campaign was in a paint store. That's what we call ourselves, the paint store Clack.

And so what year would that be?

That you moved down in October 91.

So you are working very early in the Clinton administration, uh, then, uh, chief of staff.

Senior Advisor to UH, Bill Clinton Yep, I was then, uh, a congressman, a second term. I was chair of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, third term.

And how long were you with President Obama?

21 months, but if you counted 21 months, that'd be the whole thing from chief of staff. And then when I go out and I run for mayor of the city of Chicago, right, serve two terms. And then I took a break, and then I'm, uh, ambassador for, uh, 20 months.

They're slowly getting used to it. I'm going to say this. Let me jump ahead to the ambassador role when you were announced, uh, or, or nominated, or put forth as, uh, as an ambassador to, uh, to Japan. There are many people who thought this is an odd choice because your your style is. So tell it like it is kind of pugnacious. And people thought this will not be a good mix, maybe with Japanese culture. And yet that has not seemed to have been a problem for you.

One, I evaluate all the advice I was getting, you know, you should, you know, Japanese are more reserved, more, uh, quiet. I realized, you know what, being inauthentic was not going to work, and I said, I can be myself. And I've been in many, many positions, given my titles and roles I had to do in jobs.

There's one caveat the trains in Japan are awesome. I mean, I would, I would eat, I would eat on those trains, I would sleep on those trains, I would live on those trains.

Want to hear a fact? Yeah, okay, so the Shinkansen is their high speed 150 175 miles an hour. Just. And you and you put a coffee cup, nothing spills at right to the brick, right?

225 miles an hour.

They're building a new Maglev, they want to do it, they're testing it now in Nagoya. It's really incredible.

I'm moving to Japan.

It's let me tell you.

I mean, I'm telling you, I've, I've been when I've been there.

I've absolutely loved it.

I would love to be ambassador, if that's possible. I don't know.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

No, no, no, no.

No.

No, a thousand hours of offensive footage.

Other than that, I don't see a problem. Let me just do this. Okay, compare it to the U..S. senator voting on you, you're going to do just fine, yeah.

What do you attribute that to? is that cultural? is it? what do you attribute it to? Because obviously there are certain, obviously different policies and that gets into a whole other conversation about it's a society. You're not allowed to have a gun, you know, but there's so much. But it sounds to me like it goes so much deeper than that.

What is it that is true? Yes, they don't have guns, et cetera, but that's not, that's not it. I don't think, and this is again, I'm an outsider. I think there's a respect for life and a respect for human beings, and also a self-respect. And I think it's. And also a shared sense of community and obligation to each other.

I'm familiar with this. I did a trip to Tokyo, one of my travel shows. And while I was there, we discovered the concept that you can rent family members because it's a real issue, so I rented a wife, daughter.

Also, the one other thing is you go to a restaurant and they'll explain to you. Oh, this fish is caught in this bay and this is the only time of year. And I'm like, and the corn is grown, or the rice is here, or the vegetables. And I said, You know, in America the big thing is farm-to-table. I said, you guys have been doing it for 800 years, you may want to market this thing. Okay, we think we've discovered something, I think you've been doing it for 800 years, okay?

We came up with it 11 years ago.

It didn't exist until somebody grew a piece of corn in the backyard called farm-to-table, okay?

This is a thing because there's something. This is a unique opportunity. I have to talk to someone who's had these very different positions of power and I'm trying to understand. And obviously the world internationally is a frightening place right now, I maintain it's always been a frightening place, just that we have more access to all the information.

More frightening people.

Yeah, but it is without a doubt we're facing all these challenges and I agree with you. I think you've gone out of your way to identify certain parties because there's a tendency to go well. It's gray areas, black and white, and you are identifying certain regimes, certain parties, whether it's Putin, China. You're saying, look, these people are bullies and we have to stand up to these people. And this is a value of the United States of America. When I think a lot of people are feeling a little wishy-washy about that, is that a fair assessment?

Yeah, I mean, I'm very specific about China and in the recent past, Russia 100, because, and it's not just they're bullies, but they're also. Look, I don't mean to make it binary, but in this case, it is because they've chosen. Which is, you either can have a rules-based system that applies to all, or you can have the raw exercise of power that applies to the powerful. And I don't think you wanna live in a world where the raw exercise of power second is Putin. And well, Russia and China have decided to militarize their maps, okay, and they're gonna execute those maps. Their vision of the world where the boundaries are, where the lines are by armed forces, that is not the world we wanna live in.

The Chinese are terrified of me and have been for a long time.

That's gonna get you, Freddie. That is your opening line for your confirmation hearing. Okay, there it is. We just wrote that my name is Conan O'Brien, and the Chinese are terrified of me. Okay, oh, 90 to two, 90 to two.

I thought someone was gonna say, there's this footage of you in 1998 jumping into caramel on a farm.

No, but here's the thing. And my thing is. On China, they put a map out India Official complaint, Indonesia Official complaint, Vietnam Official complaint, Philippines official complaint.

Let me ask you this specifically.

Now that felt therapeutic, so thank you for that.

We're gonna play music under it, okay?

Can I get a little?

But not the music you want.

I would like piano, yeah, a little Philip glass piece or something like that.

No, it's not gonna be what you want. Wait a second, it's gonna be Jethro Tull.

Oh, da-da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da-da.

Okay.

Okay.

There is something I wanted to ask you about because something I've been thinking about recently, which is obviously. I have very strong opinions that we need to help Ukraine as much as possible and that Putin has to be stopped. That is a very clear issue to me. But as a history buff, and I know you're a history buff, I know that. There's something in the American DNA that has always made us very reluctant to get involved. We were very reluctant to get involved in World War. I, very reluctant to get involved in World War II, when it was clearly a moral imperative.

Well, it does go, I mean to go back in history, it goes back, I mean, 100 years, and you got more than 100 years. Rather, to the founding of not being involved in Europe's wars, not being involved in other wars. Now it does change post-World War II, where there's a decision. And I just finished this great book on Max Hastings book's on Korea. And I did not realize how significant a drop-off post-World War II was. In the defense, that clearly you could say from a deterrence standpoint, everybody points to the Atchison speech. But we actually were caught flat-footed and not capable right after World War II, as it related to the Korean war militarily.

We weren't prepared.

Not only not prepared, but defense-wise. How significant a drawdown that was? So that we, almost, you could argue, in the first five years, repeated the same thing mistakes of post-world War I. But Americans, they don't wanna be obligated and worried with the rest of the world. But it keeps knocking on our front door. So we start this process of, and we're in the middle right now, of the early stages of that process again, post the Cold War, where things were working accordingly. And we let our deterrence guard down. And now we're in the mad-dash rush, both in Europe, the Mideast and Indo-Pacific, of getting our deterrence back up to where it needs to be. So we don't have these type of wars.

Yeah, and I think it's very easy politically for people when there's times of trouble to say, why are we spending money over there? Why are we spending money on those countries? When America should come first? Without thinking a little bit further and thinking, no, this is in our vital interests.

Well, I actually, I would go back. I think that's a false choice, which is, there are things that we should have been spending money on at home. Yes, I agree, okay, but it wasn't coming at the expense of spending. And doing the type of things you need to do at home, overseas, and for a long time, we didn't make the type of investment. And I'm gonna do a plug here for my boss, President Biden, because I do think the type of things that he's doing. On. Whether you talk chips, infrastructure spending in the United States, or, for that matter, on climate change type of investments. Those are desperately needed for America, desperately needed for our leadership, but they don't come from the same pot of resources. Or somehow, I mean, you can't invest in certain things here when you're making sure that Ukraine does not disappear. As a country, a language, a people and an identity separate from distinct. Because the best thing we could do to crumble Russia is to show a successful Slavic nation on its border, democratically, politically, society-wise and economically. And that is what he lives in fear of. Is that, in fact, is, when you look at Poland and its success, you look at the rest of eastern Europe Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and then, if Ukraine joined that. The mirror, it would be a house of mirrors for him. And he would, and all his warts and all would be exposed to the Russian people.

I was shocked that, I mean, obviously he's got things locked down, but I don't know.-.

Not as best as you think.

No, no, well, exactly. I would have thought that a recent insurrection by his top military, I would have thought that that would have weakened him more. Maybe it has, I don't know, but I'm kind of stunned that.

There's one thing this is true about Putin and Xi. We used to think of this and we have to update this. We used to think of the gulag. You get sent away, they take you out.

You did come in here with several phones.

Yes, I did. In fact, I wanna make sure that actually the Communist Party is meeting now. Can you speak a little louder, please?

Hi Conan, here your greatest fear.

But that's gotta be. I got one for government and family, and another one for my mother.

That phone's from 1988.

You know, Chuck Schubert has that flip phone, why do you use that? So his mother can't call him? That's why.

I wanna bring up Israel.

Anybody called Rahm? Israel Emanuel? Yeah, it's a very complicated conversation.

You're Italian whenever you need to be.

I'm gonna give you this I used to. In the mornings in the Clinton White House, I would go in and Leon Panetta was the chief of staff and I would go in. And I'd start 7 a.m by weekend and we're the first two to get there. And I would scream it, Leon goes, and then my hands are flying, and then I go, What are you Italian? I go Italian enough to date your daughter?

I just look at you, look up at me and go.

You're not that Italian. Okay, no, you're Italian, but not that Italian.

So obviously, what's happened in Israel and what's happening right now in Gaza is dreadful. And this has been a passionate interest of yours your entire life, it's part of your family legacy. How are you feeling about things right now?

It's like, I have 600 feelings and I think that's just a good start. I'm amazingly depressed, I'm angry.

This leads me to a much bigger question I had for you, which is after all these different positions you've held and you've been in the belly of.-.

The Beast.

The beast. You've been in the colon of the beast, you've been in the lungs of the beast. You've been in the heart of the beast. You've migrated from organ to organ in the beast.

Well, I mean, as a former ballet dancer, sometimes you take a step forward and sometimes you take a step sideways and sometimes a step back. So I think with human agency it gets better without it, it falls backwards. And there are certain things you can look at, and not just because they're scientific, but other things where it has improved. And so I'm slightly on this side of optimism, because if you weren't, you wouldn't get out of bed in the morning, okay?

Was that September 13th, 1993?

Yeah.

You know why I know that date?

Yeah, because you're Jewish.

Because I'm very Jewish, very devout, you're a Jew, I am an Orthodox Jew.

Yeah, jew wannabe.

And that was the day my late night show started, is that right? And so it gave me the perfect joke for the start of that. And so, in a very so, this is how egotistical I am. I think of that date, that historic date of peace, and that photograph is the day I started my late night show.

You are this is so I always just very deep.

That's how sick I am.

New York is focused on the world. I was like, DC's focused on power and LA's focused on itself. Yeah, it's such a So. Here I and I was thinking of this historic moment. And I brought my father, who fought in the War of Independence for Israel and fought in the Irgun. One of the underground, the right wing underground. And I brought him to the signing, and I remember going with President Clinton to Aqaba for the signing with Jordan.

I didn't realize Barack Obama was a muppet, he's a muppet.

No, I just gave you that's a translation in the Oval Office.

Oh, trust me, I have always understood that there were days when Mahatma Gandhi came home and was like, fuck it, fuck it, fuck it, fuck it.

Three things I used to say, I used to say at the White House, I used to say at the White House, you know? Like, thank God, it's Friday, two more workdays till Monday. The other thing is a former chief of staff. Now you go from the East wing to the West wing, that walk.

What I don't know.

I think Zach Taylor was okay.

We can try.

I can be if you create it on a curve, let's get Zach Taylor in there, let's get Fillmore in there, then we're doing okay. Because by the time they get to the Oval Office, it's a mess, their head is a total mess. Better for soap and steam.

You know what they should do?

It's not good for the chief of staff.

They should have a soap and steam room. Let's get back to who this is important.

That is not good for the chief of staff at 8 a.

We are not going.

Can you like, what about a high school? Okay, name a high school? That's a win for you today.

Buchanan was bad, I know.

All right, all right, I'm going to go back to the original.

You know, but like, Yeah, no, Buchanan Andrew Johnson put him up, Yeah, you know, I mean, so terrible.

Buchanan was bad, but I'll give you something else. So my middle one, who I love dearly, I love them all. I used to. That was the other thing my mother used to say. I used to say, You love Zeke more than me, she goes, No, I hate you all equally.

They probably had a different word for it back then.

They probably did, but it's his letter.

Confirmed gentleman.

His letters to the Alabama Senator Very clear, living together, very clear. It's without a doubt that we actually, when you think of LGBTQ rights, you think of civil rights, you think of women. We were ahead of our times as a country. People do not give us credit what happened between 1856 and 1860. We set a standard with James Buchanan.

Yeah, yeah, well, I'm glad you cleared that up.

Did you know?

Did you know that we got a lot of people in here, like Buchanan gay?

And I'm like, Look, Bill Burr.

I don't have time to get into that right now.

Did you know that?

I'd heard rumors.

Okay, I'm gonna give you, but you know, I'm one of those people.

Like, I think it's up to Buchanan to reveal it. Alabama Senator No, I don't wanna out him, that's his choice.

Well, it's amazing to me that it's not only that is that it was talked about openly and like, in a society that was clearly not as sophisticated as ours. Right? Whoa, so I'm gonna send you some books on reading because I know you love presidential history.

I like all kinds of history, but yeah, sure.

No, I love history, I read it nonstop.

What's your favorite history book if you had to pick one desert island?

No, I'm not gonna do that. So here's what I'll do on the Holocaust. I love Daniel Mendelsohn's book, Six of Six million. Okay, it's a recording of. It's a story of the story of finding it won the Pulitzer. It's a great book.

I have a book I go back to a lot and I think I just read it for the third time. Was Guns of August, because Barbara Tuchman's book on the beginning of World War I. Just because it's all about how humans, this is how humans behave, and this is how humans start a war where millions and millions of people are killed. And no one even knew why, and no one wanted to go into it, I don't know. I find that always compelling.

Right now, I would read Paris, 1919.

Well, this podcast has always been about getting people to read, Wait a minute, that's a different podcast. How are you doing it? It's not our podcast. Our podcast makes people dumber.

Thanks for taking the time with me, I really appreciate it.

I was against it, I'm still against it, and I'm pretty sure-.

Let me ask you a question, does this hour come down to, like, three minutes? It was a short podcast, do you guys?-?

We are gonna cut this so much that you're gonna introduce yourself and then you're gonna be listing books and then your ass is out the door.

You know, my mother?-.

This has been great.

Wait until I give my mother your phone number.

No, no, no, no.

No, no, no, either I get the full run, no edits, or my mother gets your phone number, you'll get the full run, okay?

Can you imagine, do you think I would edit a second of this? I am terrified of you and your family.

I am thinking of, I'm thinking of airlifting my mother to Beijing. I think she'll find the system will crumble in one minute, she will be running, she'll be in the hidden city hiding from Marcia Emanuel.

Ron Thank you so much, Ambassador Ron.

No Ambassador.

Ambi Ron.

No excellency.

Excellency most high. We bow to you. Thank you for being here, thank you for yelling at me, insulting me, but also bringing us your wisdom.

So both of us are better for it.

Nope, I'm worse, that's all good.