Don’t Give Yourself an Excuse To Go Into Debt

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions in Nashville, Tennessee, it's the Ramsey show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshaw. And we are talking about building wealth, your workplace, people, you love, people, you're in relationship with your in-laws, all of it. 888-825-5225..

Hi there.

How are you doing?

Thanks for taking my call.

Of course, thanks for calling in. What's up?

Well, I was just calling my student, or I have two children, they just both recently graduated from college, both have significant debt, student loan debt. These are parent plus loans, by the way, for a total of $400,000. With both of them, and they're not able to make their minimum wage or their minimum payment, so I'm picking up the slack.

Why did you sign for a Parent Plus loan?

Because when you go to college, that's what they tell you to do.

Okay, so what does it look like? You picking up the slack? What does that mean?

So the loans are split into two different my sons and my daughters. my daughter owes probably around $300,000 in Parent Plus loans.

Is he a doctor?

No, they're both engineers and they both have jobs now, and they both make pretty decent money for being right out of college.

What do they make? What does that mean?

My daughter makes about $60,000, my son makes about $55,000 a year.

That's not a good job for an engineer who owes $300,000.

Right?

Are they single? do they have families?

They are both single, my son does live with his girlfriend and she's also an engineer.

Tell me a little bit more about the inception of this when you picked up these Parent Plus loans? Because typically, a Parent Plus loan is the parent is signing for it, therefore the parent plans to pay it unless you've stipulated something else. What was the original agreement, was it? Hey, we're taking these out because we're going to pay for it, or we're taking these out and you guys are going to pay them back. And by the way, it's going to be this much money.

Yeah, that was the agreement that they would pay them back.

And did they know how much they were taking out at the time?

Yes, okay, so my daughter, I mean, there's a lot of things involved. But my daughter actually went to a private school for eight years, my son went to a public school. What? For seven years? We had some deaths in the family and....

Okay, and then my next question is, was there any piece of you that said, Hey, don't do this? Or you guys were like, Yeah, just tell me where to sign, yeah.

You can blame the system, but at some point, you know, $300,000, mom.

Yeah, well, you know, at first, you know, you're going to go to school for four years. Okay? It's going to cost this x amount of dollars, and then you don't make it four years now, it's X amount of dollars.

So at this point, can you answer this question for me? Are you paying the $500 because your name is on this and you're trying to protect your credit and protect your whatever? Or are you paying on this? Because you feel that you should help? Because if we're just looking at it as it is. If the agreement was, and if I called, you know, your daughter and son today and said, was the agreement that you would pay these back? and they said, Yes, that was the agreement.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think a lot of things need to change with the higher educational system, but I'm not there to do that, yeah.

Yeah, Kathleen.

Oh, I've definitely taken ownership.

Do what?

I have definitely taken ownership. I mean, I am paying the student loans back. I just, I guess like, I know that they need to be paid and like, if they can't pay them, then I'm responsible for that. I know that.

But hold on, you have created a world that your kids are dictating what you do, and that's how we end up here.

Okay.

And at some point, as my friend Henry Cloud says, they have to get some problems. And they can say the words we can't pay these bills because they know you're going to pick up the slack despite the agreement y'all made. If they didn't have you as a backstop, they'd have to figure something out. Which means your son would have to get an engineering job making more than 50 grand. And he'd also have to deliver pizzas and Instacart on the weekends, and he'd have to live in a one-bedroom apartment.

Yeah, I mean, they know all of that.

But they're not doing it.

Yeah, I think it's good when you put the steam on a little bit, especially because your name is on these. I remember kind of similar, but not really similar. My husband and I had student loans and many of them his mom signed for, and so she was like, you need to pay these loans because I'm trying to buy a house.

That's exactly right, and I don't think there's going to be any urgency for these kids to pay these off as long as they're living in your house. Making half of what they should be making out in the marketplace. Because mom's going to bail us out. I think you have to step up and say, here's a boundary, and I've never held boundaries like this for you, you too.

Buying your first home is a big deal and sets the stage for your financial success, so work with a mortgage advisor you trust, not just some random website. Churchill Mortgage is Ramsey trusted because they help you avoid hidden traps and expertly guide you through every step. Learn more at churchillmortgage..com.

This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591 nMlsconsumeraccess.org Equal Housing Lender, 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100..

This is not Rachel Cruz.

This is a.

That was the.

Dude, we should have a sound effect company. We're amazing. Join Dave me, Jade and all the Ramsey personalities for seven days in a boat.

Ship John.

On a boat, I'm on a boat.

I'm on a boat.

Seven days at Sea March 22nd through the 29th, 2025.

So, John, we have all of these special guests. I have one more. Really, just a really great reason for you to go on this cruise. Like, if you're looking for entertainment, I've got that. What's that?

Seven days at sea.

Thank God, it was five days. If you want to hear the craziest stories you've ever heard, let's chop it up at dinnertime and I'll tell you. But you have to go on the cruise in order to hear it.

I can also tell you this. When Jade tells the stories, her eyes, like her rods and cones, have been burned out of her skull.

It takes me away to that special place, for sure.

Listen, the VIP upgrades are already sold out. Everybody's going to be wearing clothes.

That's right, thank God.

And it wasn't.

It's going to be awesome.

Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, San Juan, The Bahamas.

Hi John, Hi Jay, thank you so much for taking my call.

You got it, man, what's up?

I have a little bit of a work dilemma. I found out that I'm eligible for a severance, a voluntary severance package program, and I'm debating whether or not I should take it.

Do you like your job?

Well, I like my team, the job itself. I'm not really too interested in the field, although it's what I've been doing for most of my professional career.

Why don't you do what you actually want to do?

I guess part of it is I'm not too sure what career I would want. I know that if I were to stay in the field. I currently work in tax, I'm an accountant.

What would you have done if they never offered you the severance package?

Originally, when I took this job, I realistically didn't see myself staying for more than five or six years.

To what end?

The end goal would eventually be to get a job and relocate out of state or find something.

But get a job doing what?

Right now, what I'm currently doing and hopefully try to transition to something else once I have a better picture of what that is.

Is there something financially that's on fire in your life that's making a big, a bigger chunk of money look good to you?

No, not particularly, I'm debt free.

Okay, what is the severance package?

So, between the severance package, stock options and unused PTO in taxes, it would be around $32,000 to $33,000.

What do you make a year?

The salary is $93,000.

Okay, so they're paying you four months salary, basically.

Yes.

Here's my bigger concern.

Yeah, yeah, it's really the I guess it's the unknown, that's, that's the fear. For. If they're offering something like this now, then, you know, do they anticipate layoffs?

That's kind of where my mind was going, to be honest. I wanted you to ask more questions around this offer, and I think that's that's one of the things I would go back and do. If you have a leader, you know, you said you liked the people you work with, so hopefully you have a leader that you can trust. And say, hey, tell me more about this.

Will they be honest with you?

Yes.

Okay, I think, I think Jade's, Jade's guidance is wise. Every place I've ever worked as a senior leader, when we offered buyouts, it was always a precursor to. If this doesn't solve our problem, we have to go to the next level, which is letting people go. That was that was a hundred percent of the time. I can only speak of my experiences, but it happened at multiple places.

I don't see why it wouldn't be like, otherwise, what's the point?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, that was my thought process. And so it's. It's unknown of their underlying tones of the businesses doing poorly, and they're offering this to employees.

And here's how I would not walk up to my supervisor and say, I'm thinking about taking this money. Cause then you've already, you've already set sail. Now. Their job is to talk you into following your instinct, cause they don't want someone on their team that is halfway in. I would sit down and say, Hey, this is really strange.

One of the questions I get all the time is, which life insurance company should I use for my term life policy? A valid question since there are hundreds of companies out there with rates all over the place and riders and add-ons that are simply a waste of money. You need to get this done and make the right decision. That's why the only company I use and have recommended for over 25 years is Zander Insurance.

What up, what up, I'm John. This is the Ramsey show, joined by my good friend Jade Warshall. We're taking your calls on money and life, and work and relationships, and your mental health, all of it.

Hey John, hey Jade, how we doing?

We're doing all right, man, how about you?

Well, I could use you a little bit better, you know, trying to figure out where I go from here.

What happened?

So I run a business. We've been doing this for about two months now and it's a distribution company, and so what we do is we distribute sod around all of the Salt Lake Valley. Cool.

Do you have enemies?

Do you have enemies out there?

I don't know.

I really don't know.

Bro, hey, listen, I've seen this movie. It's a rival sod company.

Yeah, probably what it is.

It's game on in Salt Lake City.

So what happens? The truck's on fire.

The truck's on fire, I roll up, and you know, cops and fire departments everywhere are trying to put it out. Luckily, no one was hurt. And, you know, I keep thinking that this was probably the best place for it to happen, you know, like on the side of the road, you know, at my base of operations.

Okay, so how can we help other than just being sad with you?

So my question is, where do I go from here?

Okay, so it's worth $70,000.

I assume it was worth $70,000.

What's Insurance giving you?

I don't know yet it was—a adjuster talked to me this morning. We're just waiting on.—we're just waiting on claims for the adjuster to come out. Look at it and determine what the value was on it. Okay?

So they need to turn that around real quick and tell me you have a business contingent on this truck, and then I'd go rent a truck for the time being.

Yeah, so what I've been doing is I've been subcontracting out the truck. I still make a margin on the product itself, you know, and so I've just been kind of in full truck shopping mode. But my question is, I guess, fully on a more just level. —you know, I'm kind of looking at this as kind of baptism by fire, I guess, you could say.

Don't do anything stupid and you're about to, so don't.

Yeah, I don't think one—it's almost like one thing doesn't have anything to do with the other. You know, the truck's on fire. Insurance is going to come out, they're going to give you. —if you said it was fully covered and you had the right coverage, you're going to get the money you need to replace it at value. And here's the thing.

Well, and also you call it a great deal, dude, it caught on fire. It wasn't that great of a deal, right?

Yeah, fair enough.

So it wasn't that great of a truck. So maybe spend $50,000 if they give you a check for $70,000, spend $50,000 and put the other $20,000 in a bank account for your company. You, though, are about to go buy a $120,000 truck, aren't you?

No, no, no, no, no, I am not. —my mindset's always been frugal, I do not.—I don't like spending more than that, is my word.

So then what's the other part of the question when you're saying, how can I set my business up? To succeed? From here on out? Tell us where you don't feel like you are succeeding and then we can help you out.

Well, I guess the big thing is financially, I just want to know how do I structure this business to succeed? So I'm fully out of debt, all I have is account payable and my lease, and that's about it.

Okay, good.

I just want to make sure that I'm on the right track you are.

Yeah, you are.

And I feel—.

You just got hit in the mouth, that's it.

You're moving at the speed of cash. The best possible thing that you can do is move at the speed of cash and not be tempted to do things. —I'm going to put it like this, do things to prove that. You have a business which is buying things that you don't really need, buying a bunch of equipment or merchandise or office space that you truly don't need. Hiring people before, it's time, just so you can be like, I've got employees, all that stuff. As long as you're moving at the right time and you're not doing anything for show, and you're moving at cash. I think for where you are and what you're doing, I think you're right on track. And just keeping good books, making sure that you know your numbers, that's the best you can do.

And let's flip this around, let's say you were, like most small business owners in America who's starting a business. You would owe $50,000, you would have bought an $85,000 truck that burned to the ground. They're going to write you a check for $40,000 and you'd owe $40,000..

Okay, and maybe I just need a little bit of reassurance on that.

No, you're good man, you just watched something pretty traumatic. your whole business looked like it burned up in front of you.

I know I think it's kind of ironic. I've been starting the story of Joe for the last week and this is kind of what happened.

And we always tell people, when you start a business or you start trying to get on the same page with your partner with money. Expect Murphy to show up. He's just going to test your bounty and see how honest and committed you are.

Yeah, no, I totally agree, I appreciate that.

There's no chance they give you a $70,000 check. Here's what I want you to be careful.

I knew that that's why I'm over-evaluating.

Okay, but here's what's going to happen. They're going to write you a check for $60,000, which is what? $20,000 more than you paid for it, $30,000 more than you paid for it. Yeah, and you're going to feel like they stole $10,000 from you and it's going to leave a bad taste in your mouth.

Okay.

And then keep right on going. How's your business doing?

Yeah, are you making money?

You know what, I can't complain. I think within two months we've grossed about $150,000 so far, and so as far as the small business goes, I can't complain. What's your net?

Yeah, what are you netting?

Net I believe as of right now, we're about $85,000.

Okay, $85,000 or $8,500??

$85,000.

Okay, outstanding. How many of you guys is it?

This is me, this is me, I'm a one-man show, okay?

And what are you taking home? are you paying yourself? are you taking everything out of the business, or are you reinvesting?

Like I say, I live as frugally as possible, so I just make sure my bills are paid on the outside. I pay rent and food on my personal side and my personal vehicle, and that's about as far as fuel and stuff like that, but that's about it.

Hold on, Homie, you made $42,000 in your first two months as a small business owner.

Yeah.

That's better than I can't complain.

I'm very grateful for where I'm at.

Yeah, hold on, I want to hear you celebrate it. I can't complain, I hate that attitude.

You know what I'm making it happen?

There you go.

Making $40,000 a month, dude, that's good money, no matter where you are.

Yeah, no, I agree, I agree, all right.

Well, keep at it, man. How do I get on the right page? You're on the right page. If you're hiring, holler at me, just shoot me a direct message because that's really good money.

Plus, he's a brand-new business owner, so he's just shaking it in his shnikes anyway.

Dude, good on you will. I'm proud of you man. I'll send you George Campbell's resume. He's probably going to want to, actually, he's not really an outdoor guy.

Nah, nah, he would hire you though, to put down his sod. He definitely would.

No question this is the Ramsey show. We'll be right back.

Hey, how's it going?

We're doing great. How about you?

I'm doing great, thank you guys for all that you do.

Thank you man, what's up?

Yeah, so I have a question. My wife and I are deciding when would be a good time to upgrade our home and how we should go about doing that. We. Currently, my wife stays at home and she homeschools our four kids, and they're all under the age of 10..

So what are you trying to do to it?

I'd like to at some point sell it and move into a larger home within the next two or three years.

Okay, so we're just moving up, we're not doing additions or anything like that. I like it.

Yeah, we thought about an addition, but I'm just not sure it makes sense. It's an older house and just not sure it would be the best fit for us.

So you owe $285 on the current mortgage. Did I get that right?

No $229 on the current mortgage, I think it's worth about $285. Got it okay?

And so how much are you trying to move up, like, what are you trying to spend here?

You know, as we've been looking in the housing market, I'm thinking somewhere from $4 to $450 is probably where we need to be.

Okay, and so is the plan that we're going to take the winnings from the sale of this house, which is not going to be an incredible amount after fees.

Right?

What do you think you'll take home after fees?

Yeah, you know, I'm hoping maybe around $35 to $40. But you know, I really would like to do this in the next two to three years, so I'm trying to. I wanted to talk to you guys about how can I use the next two to three years to be able to make that gap greater between what the house is worth and what I owe, so obviously, I can pay it down. But what's the best path for me to be able to get in, to upgrade into a home in that price range we were talking about?

I think it's twofold. I think that, yes. Continue to make extra mortgage payments. You've got that margin there and that way, it's just a forced savings account, right? Which I kind of like that. Because it's different from piling up money in an HYSA. Because then you think, oh, I've got this money here.

Okay, so do those things simultaneously.

Yeah, because I think you've got the margin to do that, and then, I mean, I think, you know our rule of thumb. You'll know that you're ready when you can get this $400,000 house, when you're able to put the write-down payment down. That allows this to be no more than 25 of your take-home all in, and that's including things like homeowners association fees.

Yes, okay.

And the ideal mortgage is a 15-year. What are you in now?

Currently, we're in a 30-year and, yeah, definitely not ideal, you know? We kind of just came into baby steps 4, 5, 6 and we want to start throwing money at the mortgage.

Here's what I want to challenge you on, and this is just, you know, take it or leave it. The whole point is to be debt-free, the point is to be free to live, free to live in a home that you pay for. And I do worry about, I mean, you guys make a good income.

Yeah, because of no, that's good.

You know what I mean? So weigh that out with your wife because the affordability part does include the style of the loan, you know.

Right, right, yeah. I mean, it may just take a couple more years of me having a lot of kids in a small house.

You'll get to know each other real well.

And Drew, you sound a lot like me, so I don't want to project my experience onto you. But you've got a lot of different ideas, all happening at the same time. Yeah, I think I'm going to, what if we just put an apartment on top of this garage? And I'm also going to spend my spare minutes scrolling the housing market in town. And I'm going to spend a little bit of time. Being frantic about our rate, I'm also going to be a little, what if we just I'm going to look up high-yields?

Yeah, you're reading me like a book there.

Okay, so that's me, and here's what we do. We're like the running back who just runs east to west, side to side, 100 yards, but we only make 3 yards down the field. We don't go anywhere, and we make our wives tired, we make our kids exhausted.

Okay.

And if you decide, all right, I'm going to buy a $400,000 house, I'm going to have no down payment, I'm going to have no PMI. Like, what do we have to do to get $80,000??

Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I would just offer this to you guys too. My wife and I have been using everydollar now for four to five months, and it has completely changed how we communicate.

Wow, we love to hear that.

Dude, that's amazing, man, that's amazing. We love it. We couldn't even pay for that kind of commercial. Thank you, Drew.

Hello, hello, it's a pleasure to speak with you. thank you.

You too? Hey, is it 1,000 degrees right now?

Not yet, but it's just about there, okay?

My goodness.

It's 999.

So my question, essentially, is, how do I not feel guilty or selfish for wanting to sell my house?

Why would you feel guilty or selfish? I need more.

Yeah, tell us more.

Sorry, I just got nervous.

We got you.

So the house is mine, the house is mine, it's in my name.

Hey, Brenda, take a big, big, deep breath, as deep as you can, all the way to your guts.

I'm going to do it, too.

Hold it three, two, all right now, let it out.

Okay, all right.

Pull your shoulders all the way down. I can hear them up by your ears, pull them all the way down.

Yeah.

Why hasn't he married you yet?

He won't.

Okay.

How long have you been together?

Three and a half years, okay?

He has forced you to take care of you.

Yes.

Your instincts are right.

Okay, yeah.

John, stop me at any point. But in my mind, I'm like, there's no together, there is no us. So why do you want me to operate out of an US? You've made it very clear.

Yeah.

You guys have any children together?

No.

Listen, no, you know, this is a major red flag, and I am.

Okay.

You know, for me, it's a No.

Brenda There's something else going on, What is it?

No, it's just I think I just needed that validated.

That's what I'm telling you, there's something else going on here. What is it? Is he safe?

He's a bully, yeah.

No, no, we're safe, we just don't. I mean, like you said, he hasn't committed, he won't commit. He's made comments that he will never put a ring on it, though.

But you don't have to uproot your family, you can call the police and have them remove somebody from your home, yeah.

No, no, he's, we're not. It's not unsafe, it's not an unsafe situation, no.

No, no, he's broken up with you and he won't leave.

That's a bully move, like, I'm not saying that, he's like screaming at you and beating you or something, but I'm saying that. If I've asked a male to leave my home and he won't leave, it's because he knows and you can't make me. That's that's at the after the dot dot.

I gotcha.

You see what I'm saying, I have bigger muscles and you can't push me out of here, and that's what 9-1-1 is for.

Yeah.

And I know that sounds ridiculous, but Jade and I do this for a living.

Yeah, I think in his eyes, he hasn't broken up with me because he thinks everything's fine. Even though I'm the one telling him I want him to move out.

Do you see the disrespect there, or just the lack of even hearing or seeing you?

I definitely feel it.

Your gut's right, okay, you have two strangers validating you.

Well, I mean, financially, I should sell it as well. The mortgage and housing expenses take up 50 of my income.

Okay, yes, ma'am, sell the house.

Sell it, So I just felt like if I sold it, I could pay off all my debt and move forward.

What will you do rent an apartment or rent a house?

I'd probably rent a house for two years or so.

Have you priced that out because rent is super high?

Especially in Phoenix.

Mm-hmm, right? But it's less than what I'm paying now.

How much less?

I'd have my mortgage is $3,400, so I can probably get a three-bedroom house, I think, for $2,500.

Okay, and what's your take-home pay? Every month I grow.

Take-home Well, I grow with $100,000, so take-home is probably $6,000 $6,500.

Okay, yeah, I want you looking at those numbers really closely. We're going to set you up with every dollar so that you can see those numbers. Because I want you knowing exactly how much money you bring home every month. Yeah, I have every dollar, and yeah, that's going to get you closer.

Oh, you do very cool.

Mm-hmm. I have the premium version I just don't have. I didn't have that number in front of me.

Okay, no worries, I don't have that, no worries. Yeah, I think that renting is a good idea, I think, to get you out of this. Because long-term, unless you told me, Yeah, I see a path, Jade to where? In a year, this will be different for me financially. But if you don't see that, then, yeah, how long have you lived in the house?

Two and a half years.

Okay, okay, yeah.

I'd do that. Are you going to make any money on it?

Yeah, yeah, it should come out with about $150,000, okay?

Okay, great.

Mm-hmm. So let me confirm what your boyfriend says about you. Yes, you're being selfish, you're taking care of you, and that is 100 the position he has put you in.

Thank you so much. When you sell this house, I want you to get the best possible help and get top dollars. So I want you to go to Rs..com Slash Agent and find one of our real estate pros to help you with this. Okay?

They're going to get you hooked up.

Man, keep them to yourself, John.

This is the Ramsey show.

Yeah, she says. I'm seeking advice on how to explain the benefits of combining our accounts to my husband. He brings in the majority of income as I'm a part-time teacher and mom, he often has to electronically transfer money to me, which, I've explained, feels degrading. I want us to be a team. But he refuses to budge on linking our accounts.

I am so sorry.

Oh gosh, I'm so sorry. It shouldn't feel that way. I have things I want to say, but John—.

No, you say it.

Okay, I was going to say, I thought I saw a twinkle in your eye, but I'll get into it.

No, it was rage, it was anger is what you saw.

Yeah.

You know, first off, I just want to affirm that, yeah, you're right, you should be combining accounts, and I love that you've. —It sounds like you've used a great vocabulary in explaining the way this feels. You're saying, Hey, this is degrading to me. I feel like I'm a burden to you. It's not just like we should combine our money and you're keeping us from doing that.

I mean, I just think any time you look at a romantic partner and say, this thing that you're doing is degrading to me. And they look at you and go, who cares, I don't care. Then your relationship has fundamental, foundational issues. This isn't about money and savings accounts.

Oh, you're beyond that.

This is about power, and I feel like I'm just a bill that you have to pay every month. You are, you are.

Well, then there's a part of me, and I don't like reading into people's situations when I don't have all the information. But I think we've done this long enough that we kind of start to know it always. —for me, there's this piece of it that okay, but then what are you hiding?

Always.

What are you hiding? Always? You know? If you don't want me to see this, if I can't have access to it, if I have to ask you, what is it that you're trying to keep me from?

Or what are you spending money on that you don't want me to know about?

That you don't want me to see, yeah.

Right?

Yeah, man.

In my guts, that hurts, man.

Well, you know, let's take a moment and talk about this on a grander scale, because obviously. SHAUNA Yeah, you guys got to get into counseling. And just to be clear, there's some very clear boundaries that need to be put in place. John, why don't you give her a couple more clues on what these boundaries need to be? And kind of like timelines.

Well, I think the conversation is, Hey, I've looked you in the eye, the person that I said I'd commit my life to until death. Do us part. I've told you that the way we are handling money and the way you are choosing to treat me is degrading. And I've asked for a partnership here, and you've said, no, I'm unable to communicate this any further.

He's going to say no.

And if he says no, then you have to have your or what? Yeah, and most couples, most people don't like to go there, the or what? Because here's what I promise you. She knows Shauna knows there's other things going on here.

I hope so. Well, let's let's zoom this out to reach a little bit of a broader audience. Because there's something you talk about, a twinkle in your eye. When I see that a couple has to electronically transfer money to and from each other, like I talk to couples all the time. John, that maybe they've just both agreed. Yeah, we don't want to share our money, we like doing our own thing.

Yeah, the $18.

I mean, nothing puts just the Kibosh on romanticism quicker than saying, Hey, you owe me $30 for my roast beef sandwich.

Or holding, holding, holding the the human that y'all created together, yes, and holding the baby and going, Hey, by the way, I need you to venmo me. 30 bucks for the water bill cause, uh.

Yeah, or what happens? it's so madness, it's madness. What happens if? Okay, you, you have the worst possible day of your life, right?

Hey, I got you for the next two months, but you're going to have to.

Or what does it look like? Let's go a step further. He makes $200,000 a year, she makes $60,000 a year. He wants to go to Ruth's Chris.

It's, it's, it's, it's a paper mache home, it's not real nothing.

I mean, I can't imagine anything more divisive and anything else that would just put so much separation and create almost like a class system in your own home. Yeah, then not combining your money where your money is, your heart is also.

And I think, I think, ultimately, Jade, that's the challenge in the chaos that is modern day marriage. I think it's never been more important for kids, I think it's never been more important for us as just individuals. The idea of marriage is becoming so, so important, yeah.

Yeah.

It's like, that's the only way that works, and people go part of the way in and then they're upset that it didn't work. And of course, it didn't work. Yeah, because the only way it works is to go all in.

That is true.

You got to go all in and it's hard and it's scary, and we don't have a lot of models for what that looks like. But at the same time, if if you have the guts to look at your wife with tears in her eyes. After she gets home from teaching and taking care of the kids. And looks at you and says, Um, I need some grocery money and you're like, Well, I'll see, let me see if I can venmo it over to you. God help you, man.

Man.

God help you.

That's that's horrible. I say it all the time and Sam's like, Jade, why? why are you telling folks this? But I say it all the time. I'm like, Listen, if I ever came home like Sam, Warshaw would never even try it.

No, he's a great human being, he's one of the best guys I know.

But if he ever said to me, Jade, you know what, you have the babies, I'll take the bank account.

Here's what would happen.

You would never see him again.

Here's what would happen. I'd get a call at my house. Hey John, I need you to help me hide a body.

And I'd help you.

But I liked you, I like Sam.

I'd be like, I'd be like, Sam didn't make it.

I'll help you, but I like Sam, I wouldn't like that.

He would never try it, thank God.

Well, and I've never thought of it, I've never thought of what you just said. But could you imagine I'm just trying to imagine laying in bed at night?

And then you say, Yeah, but you already owe me $14 from last week.

Wait, hold on, we ate the chick-fil-a three weeks ago and you owe me $6.95 and we out.

Light switch on, we out putting on Golden girls.

Share your accounts If you're going to share your DNA, share your accounts. This is the Ramsey show.

All right.

Let's go to Los Angeles, California, the city of Angels, and talk to Jesse, What's up, Jesse?

Hey John, how you doing?

What's up, man?

I'm new to the show, been listening to you guys for a couple weeks now.

Welcome to the cult, my man.

It's awesome. I was reading the baby steps or going through them, and I realized I was in step two and four at the same time. And kind of put me in a pickle with my dad.

Oh, you like so many.

All right, so sit back. We're going to give you some kool-aid and we're going to drink this, and then we're going to get it squared up for you. So tell us what's going on.

So I have a truck, this is where I feel like I'm the king of backwards. I bought a truck, sold my old—I had an SUV, I ended up having a little. —Currently, I have equity on it or I'm upside up on it. It's worth 0.16 and I can get 41 for it.

And that's for a truck.

For a truck.

You owe $16,000, and you can get $4,100 for it, or $41,000 for it.

No $41,000.

Jesse, well played man.

All right, man, okay, so what's next?

So my question is, should I sell it and then start tackling my debt with the net $25 that I would get out of it?

Yeah, how much debt do you have?

I have about $50,000.

Okay, so yeah, definitely doing that deal.

Yes, I was investing 15 of my net every check.

Yeah, if I were you, I would pause that. So that you have more money to pay off the remaining $25,000 of debt that you have, and you can knock it out super quick. What's your income?

So I'm grossing $82,500.

Dude, good for you Jesse. You're crushing it, man. What do you do for a living?

I'm a procurement for a big box company or a big warehouse.

Dude, good for you man. Congratulations.

Well, thank you. I'm trying rich, but I still feel like I realized I was sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Awesome.

So that's where I was like, Boy, I'm listening to you guys, I'm like, Wait a minute, one thing I did hear you guys mention in the previous segment. If it's not half of your income, I believe for the truck that you owe, it should be okay.

Yeah, so we look at your full income and it shouldn't be more than half of that, and yeah, you owe $16,000. But that's a rule of thumb, which means there's other things that play into that. Listen, you can do what you want on this. But if the goal is to get out of debt quickly so you can start investing again, then, yeah, I would sell it.

Yeah, yeah, that's definitely a goal.

What's that truck do for you?

It doesn't do anything, that's the other half. Hold on.

It does, dude. I've got an old beat-up truck and I would love a new one, you know why? because it kind of makes you feel awesome, doesn't it?

Okay, yes.

It does, it does, it does. It's kind of awesome, right? And so it gives you like you feel a little bit cool on those Los Angeles streets. When you're sitting there, parked for four hours a day on the highway, and you're just staring at the people below you.

In the Corolla.

And everybody's going to be like, Jesse, we know what you make, Jesse. Why are you driving a Corolla? and you say, because I'm free.