If You Want To Win You Need To Account for Risk
2023-12-11 01:56:05
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, here with the man himself, Dave Ramsey. This is your show, America.
That's my new title, The Man Himself. I like that. I don't know what himself is. It's just epic. I'm always himself now.
Legendary.
Who knew? Wow. Open phones here. We want to talk to you about your life and your money at 888-825-5225.. That's 888-825-5225..
Jason's with us in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi, Jason. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.
Thanks, Dave. How are you doing today?
Better than I deserve. What's up, man?
Okay. Yeah, I'm a long-time listener, and I'm a long-time saver. I was hoping you could answer a question regarding a retirement disagreement between my wife and I. I'm 54.. She's 51..
I'd like to retire next year at 55.. I feel like I have enough savings to retire comfortably, maybe possibly do a side gig, and she doesn't feel like we do, so. I'm just asking for some advice.
Well, retirement's not a feeling, so that's at least some consolation to you. We can look at some facts and data to go, all right, do you have the finances to retire? Is your nest egg big enough?
How much is your nest egg, dude?
About two and a half, around two and a half million.
So she needs more than a couple hundred thousand a year to live on?
Apparently so.
What's your current expenses?
You know, right now we're probably about $8,000 a month.
Okay, so you need $100,000 a year to live, and two and a half million invested in good mutual funds, if it made, 10%, would be $250,000, right?
Correct.
Now, you probably don't have access to all of that at 54, do you?
No, she's going to be younger, so she'll probably work until I get down there.
You can't access all the two and a half million now at 54 years old, because some of it's in 401s, right?
Correct.
Yeah, 59 and a half before you get to it, right? Yeah. Have you got some money to live on until you get to 59 and a half?
Well, she's actually employed. She makes most of the money in the household, so.
What does she make?
She makes around $160,000 a year.
Okay. And your expenses are $8,000, so if you weren't even there, she'd be okay.
Correct.
I think she's trying to tell you something.
I mean, actually, I just want to get out of the corporate world for a bit.
Okay, so, yeah, there's a couple of things. Mathematically, the answer is you're just fine, and I just outlined why. Yep. As soon as you get access to two and a half million, if it's invested well, if you pull off 8% or 10% of that a year, regardless of whether she's working, you easily are going to make more than it takes to cover your expenses, right? Correct.
It's a math thing. Like George said, it's not a feeling. But I think there's a lot more going on here than this.
Well, we're completely debt-free. We have no credit card debt.
No, I mean, she doesn't want you sitting at home on your butt at 54 years old.
No, no. It's not that bad. It's just going to be a career change for me. I'm very handy.
A side hustle is different. Yep, yep.
I want to retire and do a side hustle.
It's not a side hustle. It's a business. Retire and open a business.
Okay. Well, we'll call it a business.
Yeah, let's start a small business idea that makes more than you used to make in corporate.
Yep.
And then none of this is an issue. So, I just can't recommend. I'm 63, and I can't recommend you. do nothing. It's not worked out for most of my friends.
They die.
No, I'm not going to do anything. Trust me. We have a younger son that I actually want to spend the summer with. So, the business would give me the flexibility to schedule work based on his school schedule. So, if he was home in the summers, I could spend more time with him.
So, this is kind of a work-life balance thing for me.
Yeah. You have the money to do whatever you want. I'm now moving from financial to life. Do something, okay? Babysitting your kid in the summers with the net worth you have is your only goal.
And calling that life balance and making it sound cool, it's going to wear pretty thin quick, dude. You're going to want to go do something with your life. And you're too young to do nothing. You're too valuable in the marketplace. So, go, do something with your life.
That's just guy to guy right there. There's nothing to do with the math. The math is, you're just fine. And I kind of think in this argument with your wife, she's a little bit worried about that.
I don't think so, because I'm pretty involved in all kinds of activities and civics.
That's not the same thing.
Well, I have a lot of activities to keep me busy.
That's not the same thing. I'm talking about being of marketplace value, not simply serving the JCs.
Mm-hmm.
Okay? And so, you can do whatever you want to do. I'm not belittling you for that. I'm just trying to listen to what's going on here, because there's nothing in this math that says you can't quit coal today. All the math says you can quit.
Well, the issue for her is she just doesn't think we have enough. That's the thing. She's just worried that we're going to run out of money.
Have you shown her the expenses and the net income and what the retirement accounts will do?
Yeah, we've already met with a planner, and he says we're good to go as well.
Well, then she just doesn't believe the data at that point.
A lady that makes $160,000 a year is not stupid. So, what is she really saying? That's what I'm trying to figure out.
No, she's come from a family where math didn't work.
Math works in all families.
She doesn't believe the math.
Well, then that's a different issue. But she's not too stupid to believe the math. She's not wanting to believe it for some reason, and that's your core issue. It's not, do I have enough to retire. It's how do I deal with my situation.
So, I have a friend I talked to the other day. He's like the sixth guy to ever go through Financial Peace University. Wow. He called me up, and I met with his grandson. That's how long ago this was, right?
I met with his grandson the other day. who's a millionaire? because this guy went through Financial Peace University. Pretty cool. So, the first time him and his wife walked in, she was a real estate agent, and they had $4 million.
They were in their 50s, and she thought she worked like 80 hours a week selling real estate. She could not relax. And I sat down with the math, and I showed her the exact same math that he had been showing her that $400,000 a year 30 years ago. Wow. $400,000 a year 30 years ago.
You know, you've got enough. You don't have to be in freak-out mode. She relaxed, calmed down, ended up selling more real estate because she wasn't in freak-out mode all the time. But there was something. It was an emotional thing, like with Jason's wife.
Because Jason's wife, the lady I'm talking about, is not dumb. She's brilliant. And Jason's wife is not dumb. They don't generally pay dumb people $160,000 for much of anything. Generally.
Not for long, anyway. It catches up with you being dumb.
Is it the security gland that flared up?
It could be.
A scarcity mindset, potentially?
Yeah. Like, I knew a guy that was a billionaire, and I asked him why he worked all the time. And he said, I grew up dirt poor. And I'm like, well, I get that. And he goes, no.
Like, the dirt, the floor in our house was dirt. That's dirt poor in Appalachia. And he goes, I can't get that out of my system, so I work all the time. I'm like, that's not a math problem. That's not a financial problem.
That's a psychological problem. You have a wound from your past, a trauma that you've not overcome. And that's a Dr. John Deloney answer. It's not a George Campbell.
Dave Ramsey answer, right?
Yeah. Well, a lot of that has to be dealt with if you're going to ever think it's enough. Because at some point, you get $20 million, and you go, well, this guy had a billion. It could all go away at any time, so I've got to keep stacking, keep stacking. Yeah.
And listen, you can't get enough. Godliness with contentment is great gain. Financial peace. Two words that don't go together, like airline service, right? This is The Ramsey Show.
This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is Deloney, and I'm always railing against social media, especially in the summer, because everyone uploads the highlight reels of their perfect bodies and perfect vacations and perfect kids. And I know they're not real, and I also know that I'm blessed beyond my wildest dreams, but I still find myself wishing my life was like other people's. And, based on the data, I know this is happening to you, too. Comparison is wired into us, but comparison can also become the thief of joy.
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George Campbell, Ramsey personality, soon to be number one best-selling author. We have launched the new book. as my co-host today, Breaking Free from Broke. I actually am holding one. They came in.
When I got here, they were on my desk. They're pretty cool, man. This is a real book. It's coming out January, but it's in pre-sale right now. Breaking Free from Broke, the ultimate guide to more money and less stress on pre-sale, right now.
In the store, along with a lot of other wonderful Ramsey goodies. Rachel's new book is about sold out. We've got another order coming in. The children's book, it's gone crazy.
I'm glad for what I have.
That's what the book is called, and we're glad that it's selling. Thank you. I'm glad for what I have. Another best-seller.
You posted a great picture of you with the grandkids reading the book, and I think that pulled everyone's heartstrings.
I don't know if I was reading. I think I was just kind of hanging out. Yeah. Was I reading it?
Well, it was a posed photo. I imagined you reading.
Yeah, it was Rachel.
I'm sure the kids love when you read to them.
Yeah, it's great. Papa Dave stories.
Read the total money makeover to those kids.
Papa Dave, stories are a big deal, man. Epic. I'm just saying, epic, because I just make up stuff. Justin's in Washington, D.C. Hey, Justin, what's going on?
Hey, how are you doing, sir?
Better than I deserve. How can we help?
I'm active-duty military, and I have a decent amount of credit card debt, along with debt in general.
I'm trying to figure out how I can start knocking the debt off and eliminating this.
It's become a bit of a burden, and I honestly don't even know where to start.
Cool. How old are you?
I'm 28..
Cool. How much debt you got?
Between house, credit card, vehicles, we're about $350,000..
How much of that's house?
$290,000..
Okay, so you got $60,000.. How much of that's cars?
About $30,000 to $40,000..
Okay. So you got $30,000 in credit card debt?
Roughly, roughly.
Okay.
Wow. Thanks for your service. Which branch you serve in?
I'm currently Army, sir.
Okay. Cool. Thank you very much. How long you been in?
I've been in about six and a half years.
About long enough to make this mess.
Yeah, yeah.
Unfortunately.
Okay. And you're ready for a change. The payments have caught up to you, and you guys are feeling the weight of these, and you want out.
Yeah, yeah.
What's your household income?
Between my wife and I, we're about $100,000..
Great. So you make $100,000.. You owe $60,000 in this consumer debt. So the question is, how much margin can we create to throw extra on the debt? And we're going to follow the debt snowball method.
That's the way 10 million people have followed it. It's the same way. I got out of $40,000 in debt. And so you have how many debts? Three, or is it more than that total between the car loans and the credit card?
Is it multiple cards?
No, it's one credit card. And honestly, I really didn't even want to get a credit card to begin with, unfortunately. But when you become a homeowner, it's one of those things where you got to have it as a backup plan.
Well, a backup plan would be your own money, like having an emergency fund where you become the bank.
Money, money would be a backup plan. Debt didn't turn out to be a good backup plan.
20% interest on 30 grand is a bad plan, for sure.
Yes, absolutely.
So we're going to list the debts, smallest to largest. You have one big credit card, one big car, and that's it other than the house. Is that it?
Yes. One of my cars is paid off already. And then I do have a motorcycle that's below $10,000 right now.
Okay. And what did you say? the household income was again?
We're a little under $100,000.. It's like $98,000 and change.
Okay. Justin, when I was exactly your age, I filed bankruptcy. That was 30 years ago. Really? About 35 years ago now.
So I know how it feels to be scared and broke.
And after that, I figured out how to get out of debt and stay out of debt. And I figured out that it was worth it to sacrifice. now. I call it live like no one else, so that later you can live and give like no one else. The way you're living life now is all the money comes in, all the money goes back out, and there's nothing left but stress.
So after each paycheck, we still pocket about anywhere from $1,500 to $2,000 a month after all of our bills.
If I woke up in your shoes, knowing what I know now, and today I'm a multimillionaire because I quit doing stupid crap or as much, I limited the stupid crap I do, right? And so if I woke up in your shoes, I'm going to give you a real harsh prescription, because I know that the faster you get out of this mess, the faster you're going to actually become wealthy. You see the ratio of that? Yes, sir. Okay.
So anyway, I would sell my motorcycle today. It's a freaking toy. You don't need it. You can get your motorcycle later. By the way, I have several things with wheels and motors in them now, but I didn't have them when I was broke.
And so you drive like no one else, so that later you can drive like no one else. You're driving a $30,000 car, I'd probably consider selling that and moving down, but if you want to plow your way through it, you got $60,000 worth of debt, and if you do that at $2,000 a month, that's 30 months, right? Two and a half years. You don't need to see the inside of a restaurant, and you don't need to go on vacation. The only time you're in the inside of a restaurant is if somebody you love is working there and you're getting a free meal, and that might be you, but I don't care.
Nobody is going anywhere except we're getting out of debt. We're living on beans and rice, rice and beans. We're going to clean this freaking mess up, and we're never going back in debt again. because if you didn't have any payments but a house payment right now, man, you'd have some money, and you deserve to have some money because you have put in your time serving your country. You don't deserve to be this broke.
Absolutely, sir.
Now, this is going to boot camp. That's what I'm doing. Are you hearing me?
Yeah, absolutely, and so I actually do have my motorcycle up for sale right now. God, you're ahead of me.
What's it listed for?
So, after all the aftermarket stuff I put on it, I'm trying to sell it for about $10,000.. And you're OK on that? Yeah, so I figured if I can get maybe a little bit less, maybe $9,500, I could put the $500 on it.
Yeah, you can cover it, or a little bit more, and you'd have $500 to throw at the credit card. Chop the credit card up, get your wife on a budget. You, too, sit down and get the EveryDollar app out. It's completely free to download it and use it. It's the number one budgeting app in the world.
Go, check it out and sit down and lay yourself out of budget and commit to boot camp for the next 24 to 30 months, and you could be debt-free. but the house. And then that sets you up with a lot of money in your pocket to do a lot of stuff with in generosity, in investing, and to begin paying off your house.
Yeah, and there's a lot of sacrifice you can make. If 30 months sounds like a long time, let's sell more stuff. Let's increase the income. Let's get the expenses down.
Donna's in Wilmington, Delaware. Hey, Donna, what's up?
Hi, how are you, sir?
Better than I deserve. How can I help?
Well, I'm just checking with you. I've been listening to you for about two months, checking with you to see if I'm making the right decision. My husband and I are seniors. We're retired. We own a house in Delaware, one in Lewis, which is near Wilmington, and a rental property in Rehoboth.
And my son lives in Connecticut, and we're considering buying a third home up there. instead of visiting him and paying hotel rooms all the time, buying a house and making it into an Airbnb, and this way we can use it when we want and rent it out when we can. The two houses down here are fully paid off, and our rental property pays the expenses for our house here, which is a good thing. But it would mean having to go into debt when we go to Connecticut. We don't have much money for a down payment, so we'd have to mortgage the whole thing, and we're looking at no more than about $250,000 to $300,000 for a house up there.
I just don't want, in my 60s, to make a wrong decision. Yeah, it's a wrong decision. Don't do it.
It's a wrong decision. Don't do it.
You don't spend $250,000 of borrowed money to avoid a hotel room.
No. No, not. eventually. That's exactly what you're doing.
And then you've got to screw with Airbnb people. Lord help you.
Have you ever rented to Airbnb people?
Now you're running a hotel.
Oh, yeah.
That's a total pain in the butt.
This is going to be a big headache, and it's going to cost you guys a lot of money, and it's going to cost you your peace.
Just rent you a hotel room. I mean, you go rent the freaking Four Seasons Suite in the corner for a lot less than this and pay cash for it. I mean, just go. No.
No. If you can't pay cash for toys, don't buy toys. And this is a toy. Now, Donna, we love you. If that sounded harsh, I apologize.
I'm coming up on a commercial break, and I want to tell you the truth, because I love you. This is the Ramsey Show.
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George Campbell Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. I say America.
I just came back from an overseas vacation in Egypt, and I'm shocked as to how many people in other countries, everywhere we go, listen to this show.
It's because your co-host is half Egyptian, so now I'm bringing a whole new market to you, Dave.
That's it. They were like, George Campbell.
You know, George Campbell, that guy?
You're the guy with George Campbell. That's what they kept saying. That's what they told me over and over.
I'm sure you stand out like a sore thumb there, too. It doesn't help.
Oh, yeah. Lots of sore thumbs.
In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the Debt Free Stage, Brandon and Hannah are with us. Welcome, guys.
Hey. Hi.
Where do you guys live?
We live in a small town called Mount Dora, just outside of Orlando.
Awesome. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you paid off?
A whopping $143,000..
$110,000..
$110,000..
Whopping. You almost grew it there. All right. And how long did this take?
Four years on the dot.
All right. And making what kind of household income? Range of income?
When we first started our debt-free journey, collectively, we were making $48,000 a year. At the end, currently, where we are, we're making about $143,000 a year.
Nice. Nice jump in four years. Yeah. Yeah. Very well done.
What do you guys do for a living?
I am a corporate recruiter for an insurance technology company.
There we go. And I work on our corporate marketing team.
And we happen to work for the same organization, actually.
Shocking. Is that where you met?
No, high school.
Oh, okay. High school. Yes. All right. How long have you been married?
Two years in January. Oh, okay. So you started this separately and then finished it together. Absolutely. So what kind of debt was the $110,000?
and whose fault was most of this? There's always one.
Well, I think we had $73,000 in student loan debt.
My student loan debt.
Which became ours. We had, what was it, $18,500 of credit card debt. And then we were paying back an auto loan that my grandparents had purchased a car for us when we really needed one. And we wanted to pay them back as soon as possible.
Oh, okay. Yes. And I want to emphasize that the $73,000 was just for my bachelor's degree. Okay. All right.
And what's your degree in? Communication, specifically in public relations and advertising. And now you work in marketing. I do. That's good.
You're actually using your degree. It's unusual. It's wonderful. Good for you. Good stuff.
Well, what started this journey, guys?
Dave, four years ago I called into your show. Uh-oh.
Was I nice? You were very nice. Oh, good.
I was in a pickle. I had five credit cards maxed out up to my eyes in minimum payments. And I was considering debt consolidation, but the bad kind, where you default on all of your loans and then your credit score tanks and everything goes out of whack. Yep. You talked to me out of it, sent me a copy of your Total Money Makeover, read it cover to cover a few times.
Wow. And got on the program and then got her along with me. Wow. That's the best. where are they now?
story ever.
One of those free books actually worked, George. That one worked. God, sometimes they work, sometimes they end up in the trash. I'm never talking to that guy again.
You took the advice and you inspired others, and here you guys are together. Was it easy for you to get on board, Hannah? Did you already know about this stuff?
So, actually, no. When he first presented it to me, I was like, I know how to save money. You know, I'm making my own money. I'm an adult, whatever. But he broke it down into such a fun way, especially following a lot of your practices.
after reading the book. We even incorporate, you know, now we have monthly budget meetings that we follow the budget document. that's on your website, I believe. Oh, yeah. Very good.
Old school. I like it. Very well done. Congratulations. Yeah.
We actually were able to cash flow her entire master's degree.
Oh, wow.
Which was excellent. She didn't believe it was possible, but I broke down the numbers like, hey, we can do this.
What's your master's in? My master's is in public relations. Oh, okay. And that helped me actually get a big bump in my pay. Not bad.
Awesome. So, it already ROI'd. Very good. Yeah. Now, that's called smart education.
I like smart education. There's too much dumb education out there. That's smart.
Well, you actually want to hang the degree up when it's paid for. When you've got student loans attached to it, you're like, I'm going to hide that in a closet.
Well, they can repo it, so you don't want to do it. Way to go, guys. Yeah. How does it feel to be free? Amazing.
Like a literal weight off your shoulders. I didn't think the psychological benefit was going to be as powerful as it has been, but it's been phenomenal. One of the things, and I would say this is probably the hardest thing we did, but shortly after getting married last January, we took all of our honeymoon money, all $12,000, $13,000, and threw it at debt. And had to postpone our trip to Italy, but we were finally able to take it earlier this year. All right.
Nice. Yay. That's a good trip. Very good. Well done.
Nice honeymoon.
Great photos, too, if you're watching on YouTube.
Fantastic.
The Italy photos. Yeah. The perfect, yeah. The Coliseum, yeah.
That's some good delayed gratification right there. You guys still took the trip. A lot of people think, well, Dave doesn't want me to live my life. And we go, no, you can live it two years from now with freedom. We're not paying for that trip six months later.
And you guys did exactly that. Yeah. And unfortunately, also, this year, I was laid off in February. And fortunately, because we were smart and had a cushion between us and life, it was a lot easier to go through that and not freak out. Like we would have a few years ago.
Yep. Every $5 out of the $9 that we make in monthly went to our savings. But going to the debt at first and then, after we finally got debt-free, it has now just become a nice nest egg as our six-month emergency fund. Yeah. How old are you two?
29 and 28.. All right.
Not even 30 years old. You paid off $110,000 in debt in four years. Of that, you've been married two years. And you're working it separately. before that.
Well done. What do you tell people? the key to getting out of debt is? Because you're a blazing example. You did it.
I'm so proud of y'all. Thanks, Dave.
Well, I would say 100%. It is worth it. Unfortunately, the systems in place can kind of make you feel like it's hopeless in America. But you can absolutely do it, especially speaking to the younger audience and talking to the people in their 20s and 30s. You can do it.
Just perseverance, dedication, staying consistent, and being honest with yourself.
And I think the biggest thing, too, is simplifying it and communicating it. It's so scary to talk about finances if you don't know what you're talking about. But with tools like Total Money Maker. Every dollar. We use that all the time.
It just made it so much easier. And we were able to just really focus, dig our heels in, and get to our goals.
And I'm so happy we've done it now in our mid to late 20s. And we never have to look back.
And listen, there were moments where we're just putting money towards this debt. And it's just like, this is never going to end. I'm sick and tired of throwing my money into this never-ending black hole. And it was just absolutely worth it. We worked two jobs in the beginning.
Yeah, for almost two years, I worked two jobs with a day off every week, just to get ahead.
What was the best money you made at a side gig?
At my previous organization, I worked for the airlines. And they commissioned bonus checks to us, depending on how well we were doing during the flight. So just hustling like that and then just finding something easy to do on the weekends.
Oh, okay. All right, good. Very cool. Very cool. Way to go, you guys.
Thanks, Dave. What a great job.
I can tell you guys have built these muscles where you're. like, any financial goal, we're going to be able to do it. Because you know how to save. You know how to spend wisely. And that's the most hopeful part of all this.
You guys are invincible now. Yeah. And honestly, this is four years in the making. It has taken us four dedicated years to be here today.
Did some of your friends, like, think you were a cuckoo? Yeah, 100%. Friends, family.
Yeah.
A lot of cuckoos out there.
Yeah.
Yeah. Some people are like, don't worry. Just pay the minimums on the debt. Don't worry. Be happy.
Stay in debt. Yeah. It'll all work out. No, it won't. This is called grown-up stuff.
Yeah. Way to go, you guys. That's so good. That's so good. So now you get to do the Toby Keith thing, How You Like Me Now, right?
Oh, my gosh. I love that song.
We just hope we can inspire other people out there to do this, because I promise you it's worth it.
You just did, my brother. Well done. Very well done. Hey, we've got a copy of the Total Money Makeover for you to give away in the Live and Give box. And, of course, the Baby Steps Millionaires book, because that's your next step in this journey.
You're going to be there for sure. And a Financial Peace University membership. So enjoy those or give them away as our gift. Thanks for coming all the way up from Florida to do your debt-free scream. You two are incredible.
Brandon and Hannah, Orlando, Florida area. $110,000 paid off in four years, making $48,000 to $143,000.. They did it before they're 30.. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.
All right. All right. Three, two, one.
We're debt-free! Yeah! Woo!
That's how it's done right there.
Woo! Love it. This is the Ramsey Show.
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George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. Our question of the day comes from our friends at Neighborly, your hub for home services. For over 40 years, Neighborly has done an exclusive network of trained local service providers, backed by the Neighborly Done Right promise. So if it's not done right, Neighborly will make it right.
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Today's question comes from Peter in Michigan. Hey Dave, I just turned 22 and have a credit score of 730.. Oh God. I'm looking to buy my first home within the next year, but the interest rate on homes are through the roof, although I see that they are coming down a little bit. Should I hold out for lower rates?
Go ahead and lock it in. Thank you. Aha, the classic conundrum. Should I time the real estate interest rate market? It's kind of like timing the stock market.
The best timing to invest in the stock market is when you have the money to invest versus trying to figure out if it's going to go down or up.
Exactly.
So I would buy when he's ready to buy.
Marry the house, date the rate.
So buy the house and refinance when rates come down. You're not married to the mortgage, you're married to the house. So figure out the right house at the right time, the right girl at the right time, get married, and date the rate. The rate's temporary. It's not a permanent decision.
So no one says you have to keep a mortgage. As a matter of fact, I have a 0% mortgage. I don't have one. I haven't had one in years. Not a percent, not even a mortgage.
So there you go. And that's a possibility too in your future. So I will tell you this, Peter. You're 22.. You've got plenty of time.
There's no problem. You'll get there. But whenever you're ready to buy, marry the house and date the rate. That's good. And you can refinance.
You can refinance. Any of you that are sitting there right now, waiting on house prices to come down, you're going to be waiting. You're going to be waiting. There are some prices that have adjusted, but values have not adjusted. Prices have adjusted because some of these people were trying to get, some of these people who were paying too much because everything was in a frenzy.
You remember, right after the Fauci pandemic? Y'all remember that? Yeah.
It was listed for a bajillion dollars, and the market was like, no, we're not paying that.
You were looking for a sucker, and the sucker didn't come. So now they dropped their price, but the values have not gone down. And they're not going to go down because there's a shortage of housing. Buyers are not out there eating up everything right now, and there's not a lot of inventory. And so it's just a really slow market, number one.
But it's slow in listings, too. You can't find a property because there's not a lot of inventory. So it's a really weird time to buy, but there's nothing wrong with buying right now. If you wait two years, the price is going to be more. And if you buy now at a higher rate and the rates come down, just refinance.
That's the whole thing. Ashley's with us in Philadelphia. Hi, Ashley. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.
Hi, Dave. How are you?
Better than I deserve. What's up?
So my boyfriend is receiving a pretty large settlement in the next coming months, and we're kind of debating. We're looking to buy our first home, and obviously, once the home comes, once the right home comes, we'll do that. But he's stuck on paying the house out in full, and I'm wondering if it's better to do a big down payment and get a mortgage on the house.
Why do you want a mortgage?
I don't know. I feel like putting a huge lump of that settlement into a house is going to do more.
Why do you want a mortgage?
I'm not sure.
Well, you just told me you wanted a mortgage.
What do you think you should do with it?
I just want him to use it as wisely as possible.
It sounds like he wants to avoid debt.
How much is he getting?
Right around half a million.
Okay. And how much is the house price you're thinking about buying?
We were thinking like mid-threes.
Okay.
Is the settlement taxed?
No, it's not.
Okay. All right.
Well, let me send him a warning through you, and you're not going to like this, okay? Okay. There is. no, we. You're not married.
Exactly. Yeah. There's a he. I'm coming into it. Yeah, exactly.
There's a he. It's his money. And so if he buys a house, it goes into his name, not our name, unless you're married. Are you all getting married?
Eventually. We've been together for six years.
Apparently not.
So, I mean, six years, and you didn't paint or get off the ladder. I mean, so you've already figured out what you're doing. But if I'm him, what is his income?
Right around 55, I think.
Okay. So let's pretend for a second. Let's just reverse engineer this, so that it'll help you with your heart on understanding where our advice is coming from. Let's pretend that he made $55,000, had $200,000 in the bank, and a paid for $300,000 house. And you walked up to that guy, and you met that guy.
He had a paid for $300,000 house, $200,000 in the bank. He makes $55,000 a year. Would you then tell him to go get a mortgage, because that's wise?
No.
Same thing, though, isn't it?
Mm-hmm.
I just did it backward.
Yeah.
It's the same exact thing. So the only thing that could fall under the heading of wisdom is, if it made sense, and I don't think it does, and Georgia doesn't think it does, to borrow on your home to do investing.
And effectively, if you're going to invest some, let's say he put $100,000 down, and instead of paying the other $200,000 on the house, put it in mutual funds, okay? Which is kind of what's probably rattling around in the back of your head somewhere. If that makes sense, then borrowing on the paid for house to do the same thing would also make sense.
But by reverse engineering it, it makes you realize, oh, there's risk involved here. I know you can't get into lawsuit details. Was he injured for the settlement?
He was, yeah.
Okay. Mm-hmm. All right. Is he okay?
Yeah. He's great now.
He can still work?
No permanent damage to his income?
No. No, it was a miracle heal.
Good. Good. I'm glad for him, and you too. Yeah. So I would tell him to pay cash for his house and set aside an emergency fund and invest the balance long-term.
And, by the way, if you don't have any payments in the world and you make $55,000, you could pay what's the equivalent of a house payment into your investments every month. And that alone will make you a millionaire in just a few years.
Okay.
Does that make sense too?
It does. It does. Yeah.
Yeah. So that's what I would do. But, um, uh, yeah. Uh, those of you that are, uh, uh, shacking up and playing house, or whatever you want to call it stuff, um, be sure that you keep your legal stuff completely separate. And you have to be careful even with your pronouns, in this case, not like woke pronouns, but like pronouns, like the, you have to get your,
we're buying a house.
We're buying a house. We aren't doing anything. He is, uh, we're getting a settlement. No, he is. If you're married, there's a week when you're married, you become French.
We, we, right. That's how that works. But until you're married, there's not a way, um, legally, I'm talking about. Um, and honestly, actually, that also leaves you in a, uh,
a predicament as well that I don't want you in. I would rather you have the safety in this relationship and the things that you've been pouring into the, the economics you've been pouring into this for six years. I'd rather you have the safety of marriage. Marriage represents safety for you, young lady. So I, I would just as a, you know, a guy who's seen all the stuff go bad, cause that's all we do.
We work with a lot of people who are, things went bad. I want, I want you to have a better life than, than this is setting up, because you know, one day he just decided you're not there legally. He didn't have to do anything except tell you to move. He didn't even have to evict you. You don't even have tenants rights.
You just move out.
You're a squatter, you know, equity, nothing.
And that's just, um, you know, you don't want to play that out for 90 years. You don't want to play that out. I've been married 43 years. You don't want to play that out 43 years and see how that looks. It doesn't, this doesn't age.
well. It's like cheap wine. It doesn't age. well. So, you know, that, that's just me loving you right now.
Telling you that for you. So you guys do whatever you want to do. You're grownups and we love you. either way. We'll help you all the time.
You call us anytime. This is the Ramsey show.
Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual, amazing relationships. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel.
Ramsey personality. YouTube celebrity. Is my co-host today. His YouTube show, George Camel, just surpassed the first 100,000 subscribers. We got the little YouTube button in.
We got the whole little plaque they send you when you hit 100,000.. Plaquepoo. Very kind to all the subscribers out there and people watching every week.
The fastest show to go to 100,000 in the Ramsey network on YouTube. Did it faster than anybody.
I'm not very fast in life, so it's nice that I beat y'all to something, Dave.
Hey, you got there quick.
The team has done an incredible job, making this entertaining, fun, and, of course, informative and helpful.
Casey is with us in Amarillo, Texas, to start this hour. Hi, Casey. Welcome to the Ramsey show.
Hey, Dave and George. How are you?
Better than we deserve, brother. What's up?
Well, I'm a little embarrassed because this is really going to showcase my ignorance of the subject, but I've got a few questions about the national debt. I don't know if you've heard, but we are in debt a little bit.
I heard the rumor.
Yep. So I've got three questions for you. The first one is, who do we owe this $33 trillion to? The second one is, why, as a country, did we borrow it in the first place? And the third one is, is it even possible or logical for our federal government to pay off this debt and operate debt-free?
Those are great questions. Well, who we owe the money to are whoever bought the Treasury bills. They're called T-bills. And the Treasury of the United States issues a bond, and if you buy that bond, then that means that if I buy a, I don't know, $100,000 Treasury bond, that means the United States of America owes me $100,000 if I bought that bond, and it pays me a certain interest rate. Now, I know they're never going to pay the bond, or if they do, they're going to pay it by issuing another one.
Yeah.
Okay? Which is, if it actually ever does come due, that's how they do it. They'll issue another set to cover the ones that are coming due. But I also know that I can sell that bond at any moment because the credit rating of the United States of America is still strong. Okay?
So that's how they finance it. And the danger is when foreign countries or foreign entities of any kind,
wealthy corporations in foreign countries, buy up a bunch of that, that means the United States is in debt, say, to China, as an example, deeply in debt to China. It's a little dangerous politically. But it's not like they can call the debt, or it's not like they can repo Kentucky. So it's okay.
But in that sense, it's not dangerous, but it's just kind of creepy. You know what I'm saying? So your second question was, or your third question was, can we ever pay it off? Your second question was what? Oh, why did we go in debt?
Well, we went in debt just because, like regular human beings, we spent more than they made. When the revenue coming in from taxes and other things won't cover the expenses of highways and military and $45,000 toilet seats and $1 billion to this country and $8 billion to that country in supplies, which we do pretty regularly, we give billions and billions and billions away overseas. When we don't have the income in a year, the amount that we're short, revenue is not enough revenue to cover the outgo, the budget. The difference is called the deficit. And the amount that we borrow has gone up every year because we keep going, we keep spending, not just spending more than we make, but every year spending more than the more than we make.
We raise the amount that we're going into debt. So when they say they cut the deficit, all that means is they didn't go over budget quite as much. That's all it means. So it's kind of an oxymoron on words. And then the last question is, can we get rid of it?
Mathematically, we could. I don't think we have the political willpower to do it. Because as soon as you tell your Uncle Henry, who gets a subsidy because he runs a dairy farm from the U.S. government, that he's not going to get that subsidy anymore because we're cutting our expenses, that he's not going to vote for that congressman, and that congressman is going to get replaced by a congressman who will spend money like he's a drunken congressman. Right?
Yeah. And so people won't, they don't, they want to, in theory, a lot of people say I'd like to balance the budget. I'd like to get the income to at least equal where we're not going further in debt. But to do that would require cutting a lot of things out. And the problem is we're so far in debt now that a big portion of the budget is just the interest on the old debt.
Right. And you can't cut that. You've got to pay that. So where are you going to cut? You're going to cut giving, you know, money in the Middle East, money in the Ukraine, money to this country, money to that country.
There's a lot of people talk about that. Are you going to cut the military? I mean, those people don't get paid anything anyway. And they put their lives on the line for us. I don't know how to do that.
It just requires this tremendous, the amount of hate that it would generate because of the number of lives it would touch to cut everything necessary to cut to get it down to balance. I don't know if anybody's got the political capital to pull that off. Either side. I think it'd be the last time that party existed. right now.
Because people have gotten used to being on the government dole one way or another. You know, they're used to. the local government in my county is waiting on $14 million right now to build a highway or to redo a road that runs up beside one of my houses. And they've been waiting five years on that $14 million from the federal government. And they won't build the road until the $14 million comes.
Meanwhile, the road's a damn goat track. You know, it's awful.
And so they're waiting on $14 million from the government instead of the local county handling their own business.
And it's that way everywhere.
It's that times a thousand.
Waiting to do the bridge repairs until we get the government money. Waiting to do this until you get the government money. And so everybody's on the dadgum take. And nobody wants to say no. And saying no is the only way you balance a budget.
When you do it at home, Casey, when I do it at home, the way I live on less than I make is I look at the kids and I say no. I look at my wife and we look at our budget and we go, we can't go on vacation. We're broke people. We've got to not be broke people before we can go on vacation. We can't afford that car.
Those bass are going to get away because I'm not going to have a bass boat with a motor that big, because I can't afford to pay for it. This is what normal people do. We say no. But the federal government has absolutely no ability to say no because everybody wants them to say yes. So that's the problem.
It's not a math problem. You could actually cut taxes and revenues. go up. Art Laffer proved that under Reagan. It's a statistical fact.
It's not a political theory. So it actually worked.
Did you see Warren Buffett's method to solve this?
Yeah. And it's a great quote. Absolutely. Yeah.
I said I could end the deficit in five minutes. You just pass a law that says anytime there's a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election. There you go. You lose your job unless you fix this. Yeah.
There's one way to do it.
Because you redefine what winning looks like. What does winning look like as a congressman now? Giving everybody free money. The only way you can stay is if you balance the budget. That's a new way of saying what winning looks like.
Hanging out with lobbyists all day.
They would learn the new ancient word. The ancient word no.
No. You press your tongue towards the roof of your mouth. You release and let air go by. No.
George Camel is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Hey, if you like this show, you can help us out. We'd appreciate the help, by the way. We do need all the help we can get around here.
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Otherwise, it's just free. Hey, pretty cool. Elizabeth's in Miami. Hi, Elizabeth. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.
Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.
Sure. How can we help?
So let me start with my dad just passed a couple months ago.
I'm sorry.
And I help my mom and my sister with their finances. now. My sister has learning disabilities, and I've been following your plan with her for the past six years. We have her debt free. She has like $26,000 in the bank because she's saving up to buy a new car, not like a new to her car.
She has about $29,000 in retirement just from her work putting in for her. She makes about $27,000 a year.
What's the nature of her learning disability?
It's in math, actually. But that's why I do all of her finances for her.
Okay. I'm sorry.
I'm not aware of an exclusively math disability. What is this? I don't understand.
It's not very common. It's really not a lot of people know about it. She just doesn't understand beyond basic, like addition, subtraction.
Okay. So that also inhibits her career path, I assume.
Exactly. Yes, absolutely. Okay. And it inhibits her confidence in applying for a different job. So she has a job she's in now.
She's been there for 11 years. She's very happy. Okay. She likes the people she works with.
So you've got her in a sustainable mode. Way to go. Yeah. You're a great sister.
Thank you. So, with my dad passing, the situation has arised that my mom, they were married for 50 years. And she's uncomfortable living on her own. But she really wants to travel. And she doesn't want to leave the house empty.
So she came up with the idea that maybe my sister could move in with her. And because she's only going to be there, she only wants to be there for like three months a year. I really want my mom to live with me, to be honest.
So my sister could sell her house and make about $150,000.. She has a townhouse. She's got 50,000 left on it and we could sell it for 200.. Does it make sense? And there's like a lot, obviously, of nuances in here.
For her to take that 150 and invest a huge portion into her retirement, because I'm afraid she's not going to have enough. She's 42.. She has this 29,000 in retirement. And she's got some health issues. And my dad passed from health issues that are genetic.
And I'm just worried about taking care of her.
What's your mom's house worth?
$300,000.. And it's paid off. She doesn't owe anything on it.
Right.
There's two elements we find from people that build wealth and are able to create a sustainable situation at retirement. One is a paid-for property and one is a nest egg. And so you're being very wise in how you're going at this, isn't she, George? Yeah. Yeah.
So I want that for your sister. Because if she does not own a property going into her retirement years because she moved into your mom's house and sold hers, she's going to be out of the real estate game.
That's what I was nervous about, too.
Yeah. I'm worried about that. Because, okay, let's fast forward. Let's say your sister's life expectancy is better than you fear. And let's say she lives to 70 or 80..
Okay? At that point, the number one line item in most people's budget, expense-wise, the largest item is housing. Okay? And when you have a paid-for property, you have greatly reduced the number one expense item. You've stabilized it.
Like for your mom, in your mom's situation, she's sitting there in a paid-for $300,000 house. What's that? give her? Stability. Yes.
Because she doesn't have to worry about a stinkin' house payment with your dad passing, which might have forced her to sell the house. She's still thinking about traveling. I don't know. I don't know what the rest of the nest egg is. But that's the thing.
So the paid-for house that your mom's sitting on is a beautiful testament to your dad and your mom and how they've managed money. That's a stable thing for your mom going into her golden years. I don't want to take that away from your sister.
Okay.
Is it? I'm going to throw one more wrench into the situation. My mom is saying she's going to leave the house to both my sister and myself. Could my sister just stay in the house after my mom passes and then that becomes her house?
Yeah. Yeah. And I'm guessing, if your mom's traveling nine months a year, there's some money, too.
I mean, she's legitimately going to live with me for six months, and I'm beyond happy about that. And my husband is happy about it.
That's not travel.
No, no, no. And she has friends everywhere. And they all want her to come.
Okay. So this is not. she's got $2 million in a nest egg and just going to go out and have some fun?
Unfortunately, no.
So my question is, does she have $300,000 in addition to the house?
From what I understand, she's got $175,000 in investments and then probably $50,000 in checking. But then she gets pension and social security enough to cover more than her bills.
Is it just you and your sister? Are you the only two siblings? Yes.
Yep.
Here's what I'm beating around. I'm trying to figure out the math. that's fair to you, because you've been a wonderful sister. And I'd like for your, I'd like for your sister, to end up with this house without having to pay you something.
No, that's honestly, it would bring me so much comfort to know that she's just taking care of, you know, like it's okay. And we're in a stable place. My husband and I, we're going to be okay. We've got military retirement. I'm really worried that she's so tight on her money and so tight with her retirement right now.
And this would just, I mean, it would be the world changing for her.
Is a relationship part okay with mom?
You hesitated.
My mom is obviously great.
You hesitated.
I think that it's, I think it's more an insecurity for my sister to say I'm moving back in with my mom. And I told her, I was like, it's really mom is living with you. You know, if she's living there nine months a year and my mom only comes in for three months, just basically to visit and say, hi, it's really my mom is gifting her that house. They're changing her mentality. But I understand.
If you want to do a, if you want to make it thorough and legal, you could sit with an estate planner and go ahead and deed the house to your sister with a life estate, with a life estate to your mom, meaning your mom has rights to it. As long as she's alive, she can stay there. Okay. And you could put in the, in the, in the write-up that your sister is also allowed to occupy the property. And then your sister, it does own the house.
Okay. That wouldn't be a bad thing. You could sit with an estate planner and do that under the unified estate tax exemption. She could transfer the title on the property over and not pay a dime on taxes on it. Your sister can sell the house, her house, and dump that money.
As you said, into retirement, no house payment. Yeah. Then that starts to work, unless your mom is going to mess up your sister's progress because she's done so well under your leadership.
Yeah. I just keep coming back to that real estate. I like that. she's got skin in the game and I want her to lose that by this situation.
She's going to own this other house.
Then that solves it.
That keeps her in the real estate game. Yeah.
But I would also ask, what does sister want to do? Yeah. That's part of it.
She likes her independence right now is what I heard, too. That's something to deal with. That's a good question.
Even though it's quote unquote her house, I think, emotionally, psychologically, and, until the deed is changed over, financially.
It might be good for your sister's state of mind to go ahead and do the deed with your mom having a life estate.
Make it official, not just a promise.
Yeah. Then this is your house.
And you're getting your part of the estate now, prior to death.
And then the rest of the money and stuff will come to you, Elizabeth, at that point upon death. And it probably won't be. $300,000 is what you're telling me. Probably going to be more in the $200,000 range, depending on what your mom spends between now and then. So, wow.
I got to tell you, Elizabeth, that's very noble. You're doing really good stuff there. You're a good person. I'm honored to speak with you. I hope we helped you.
This is the Ramsey Show.
George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co-host in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the famous debt-free stage. Shawn and Glenda are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Hi, Dave. How's it going?
It's good to have you guys. Hi, George. Where do you guys live? San Antonio, Texas. Oh, we love San Antonio.
Thanks for being with us. Thank you for having us. How much debt did you pay off?
About $297,000.. That'll do. How long did that take? Five and a half years, about 68 months. Wow, good for you.
And your range of income during that time? $86,000 to about $212,000..
Wow, cool.
Now, what kind of debt was this? It's our house, Dave.
You paid off your house!
Looking at weird people!
We are weird. Very weird people. I love it. Way to go, you guys. What do you all do for a living?
I'm a fire inspector at JBSA Lackland Air Force Base. Why aren't you on the radio with that voice? I know! He does have a sexy voice. Well, I am on the radio when I have my radio.
I didn't say sexy, I just said radio.
I said sexy!
I'm on the fire department radio, so that counts.
And I work logistics for Lackland Air Force Base. Oh, yeah. That's awesome. I'm retired active duty, but I went back as a civil service. Same job.
Thanks for your service. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. So you paid off your, what's this house worth?
$404,000.. Way to go! How much? in your nest egg? That's going to be $965,000..
Almost there! You mean above the $400,000?. There's $600,000-something. Yes. So you're right at a million dollars.
Close. A little under. We're about $40,000 short. I just declared it. You're a millionaire.
Way to go. Thank you. Appreciate that. That's weird. Check the stock market in an hour.
Maybe you'll be there.
How old are you two? 57.. 57.. And you've got a paid for house. Yes, sir.
And you're a millionaire. Yes. We never owned a house while I was active duty, so that's why it took a little longer to actually say, hey, because I was originally from San Antonio, we both were. Yeah, I mean, I can't believe you waited until you were 57 to be rich. That's horrible.
No time like the present. How long have you guys been married?
32 years. Way to go, you two. Way to go. That's so excellent. Thank you.
Well done. Well done. Okay, so what put you on this journey five and a half years ago to knock the house out? So when I was deployed to the Middle East, which you just came back from, so it was very hot. Well, it shouldn't have been hot there.
No, it wasn't hot this time. In the summer, it's bad. The sandbox. Yes, yes. When I was there, it was 120 degrees.
Yeah. And there was, on the bulletin board for the chapel, a Dave Ramsey financial peace course. I'm like, what? I didn't hear about you about that time. Is it air conditioned?
That's what we want to know. The chapel was air conditioned. Who cares what the stupid course is? Is it air conditioned? Yes, yes.
So it started from there, and we just never looked back. Yeah, he came home, Dave, all fired up about getting out of debt, and I wasn't having it. Uh-oh. I said, I'm not having this foolishness. I'm going shopping.
Because truly, I'm the free spirit. He's the nerd. Apparently. But what he did was he started, back, then it was your CDs, and he would put the CDs, because it actually started in 09 that this happened. Yeah.
And we got rid of our consumer debt. But he started playing the CDs in the car on the way to work, and I liked that it was biblically based and that you were funny. There we go. I said, okay, I'll take the class. So she took the class with us.
I took it, and we never looked back. Don't like it, but it's Jesus, and it's funny. Yeah, it's Jesus, and it's funny. And loved it, and we never looked back. We hit it straight head on, paid that debt off, and moved to San Antonio, built a house.
And I think the budget really opened her eyes, too. Yeah, the budget. Because that made our standard for never going back into debt again. We cash flowed four cars, and everything else was just cash flow. And we recently just bought a car, cash.
A new to us car. It's a 2021 Camry, but new to us. Good car. Yeah. That's a typical millionaire car.
Yeah. Yes. A two-year-old Camry. That's about what they drive. We love it.
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