True Maturity Is The Ability To Delay Satisfaction

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, host of the Ken Coleman Podcast on the Ramsey Networks, is my co-host today. So you want to talk about jobs or careers, well, he's here and we can work that in for sure, because we talk about all parts of your life here on the show and how we can make it all work together. so you get a better one.

Hey guys, absolutely love the show. So big fan, follow most of your advice. My question is about romance and how to keep it alive with the joint bank accounts. So my wife and I recently got married and we're doing what you suggested, having one centralized checking account. But my question is, what do you do on Valentine's Day or her birthday?

You'll get over that. The longer you're married, the less that matters. Because actually, Sharon and I go out to dinner for Valentine's after 43 years and we play guess the check before it comes. We want to see who can guess the closest to what it's going to be. So it'll work out.

Okay.

So I guess there's a couple, I mean, we just need a mechanical way to fix it. So you've got some money that is spent towards her, but she doesn't know what it is. And so I guess around Valentine's Day you could, as an example, around her birthday or something like that, you could increase your Rob spending account. Because you should have a his and her account for blow money, right?

Yeah, we have a guilt-free account.

Yeah, guilt-free account. Okay, let's increase your guilt-free account around that time. And she knows that we've increased the amount, but she doesn't know what you spent on the particular items then.

Got you.

Okay. But I mean, she's not going to be okay with you dropping $5,000 out of budget. Okay? But you don't want her to know if it's a $200 flower or a $300 flower, right?

Exactly. That's my point. Yeah. I understand financial infidelity, et cetera. But there's a happy media here.

So just build it up during that time. And it's just kind of a stated thing. I get a little more guilt-free money because I'm taking care of your birthday. out of that. Shut up.

That's what I do. I tell Stacey, especially around Christmas time, I go, hey, listen, we plan out a budget for the kids. And then I go, all right, this is a range for us. And I said, you know, just not worry about it. And she loves that.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Because in February, we have Sharon Palusa.

I know. Well, this is a big month for Sharon in February because of her birthday.

Well, our first date was February 6th. Her birthday is the 8th. And then there's Valentine's Day on the 14th. So the whole freaking month is Sharon Palusa. I mean, she just gets – it's like ridiculous.

It's a good month for Sharon.

Well, I've got a little category. It's SWI. Sharon wants it. Uh-huh. So there it is.

Is that also the same – could you also call that same envelope? Sharon Gets It?

Well, that's the point. Yeah. Sharon wants it.

Hi, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

I have a question. So, during COVID, we decided to put some money in stocks. And now we made enough on the stock market to pay off our house. My husband really wants to, because Florida is going crazy with insurance and taxes. And it's just going crazy down here.

Hmm.

What do you want to do?

I don't know. I'm torn. Because –.

How much is the mortgage?

I watch it go up and I watch it go down. But we pay $2,500 a month on our mortgage.

How much is your balance on the mortgage?

About $100,000..

Okay. How much you got in stock value?

About $120,000..

Okay. Let's pretend your house was paid for and you didn't have any stock. Like you did what he wants to do. Okay? Would you go borrow on your house to buy stock?

Okay.

Pay off your house. Okay. Today. Okay. Do it by the end of the week.

You sound like him. He's just ready. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much.

Sorry, Charlotte. He wins the argument. He's right and you're going to love it.

I figured that. I figured that. Thank you very much.

You called me and asked that question. You knew it.

That's why I asked. I was like, what do you want to do? Because when you lead with my husband, once, we know where that's going. It's funny for her. She's kind of reconciling that.

Well, they made some money. They did.

She's going, I like the way that feels.

I want to do that again. That's exactly what it is. What you do is you take the $2,500 a month that you don't have anymore, round that up to $3,500 and go, if you want to do single stocks, I don't. I don't like the risk of it. But if you want to do that, then throw some money in there and just watch that money grow.

That's exactly what I would do.

You breathe different when your house is paid for. The air goes more deeply into your lungs. It is a physical manifestation of peace. Financial peace. Two words that don't go together like airline service, right?

Deep. The airline joke.

Financial peace.

Well, but here's the investment. reality too, though, Dave. It's that $100,000 in equity is no risk compared to the $120,000 of the stock. Yeah. Because that could go up and down, but your house is not going to do that.

You could get Biden reelected or Trump elected, or the world could come to an end, which is probably similar.

At this rate, maybe that's the best option.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

So, I'm going to give you a little bit of background so you can understand the situation I'm in. I moved to the U.S. by myself when I was 21, and I worked as a nanny until I was about 28.. And when I was 28, I finally had the opportunity to go to college, and I pursued a physics degree. And in college, I got as many opportunities that I could because I wanted to build my resume and have actual work experience.

Erica, so let me ask you this. What have you done? when you say, I haven't been able to find anything? Does that mean you haven't been accepted in the form of getting hired, or you just literally are having a hard time ideating and selecting things to do with that physics degree?

No, I actually have been applying to lots of jobs, and I haven't gotten an interview. I applied for tech, engineering.

So, Erica, I'm interrupting because that's the challenge. So we live in a world today where getting noticed is harder than ever. if you're just going to apply. I mean, you could sit and LinkedIn message people all day long. You can apply, apply, apply, and you're Exhibit A.

Right. That's what I have been doing. I have been trying to network there. And I even went in person to a few companies to deliver my resume, introduce myself. But no luck yet.

No, but, sweetheart, listen, the days of walking into the street and to the receptionist, while I love the hustle factor there, it's just not the way things work. So what has to happen is you've got to have somebody who is making an introduction for you, to somebody who has a say in the job. Is this hard work? Absolutely. Is it harder than submitting resumes all day, every day?

Well, number one at this moment is what I have been doing right now to work as a developer. But I know that things have been tough for developers at the moment. So my second option would be engineering.

You're doing code with a physics degree?

Oh, yes, because in my university we have to have a lot of code background.

Yeah, okay.

But you want to be a developer. That's the long-term ladder for you? I want to keep taking my developer skills and move up?

Because your current developer job sucks.

Yeah, you're on the low end.

$40K to be a developer? That's awful.

Yeah, it's because I was hired for a non-profit company.

Okay, so, Erica, not only are we not fishing properly, when you have fished, you've been fishing in the wrong pools. Non-profits, by the very nature of their existence and operation, there's just a lid on you financially. You should be in the $75, $85 range very soon, with a path to six figures.

A first-level dev, yeah, for sure.

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to find.

And developers are not hurting. There's a shortage. I don't know who told you. the market is dried up. for developers.

Oh, it's because of...

I could hire five today if I could find them that were competent.

Listen, I just went on a popular job site. I'm not going to say their name. But there's 977 developer jobs on their site in the Atlanta area.

Not exactly a shortage.

977..

Yeah, so I have been applying for these, though.

Sweetie, you're not listening. That's why you're not getting an interview.

So something Erica just said, and this applies to a lot of people, so I want to break this down. So Erica just said, I don't have any buddies. Well, first of all, it's not true. So let me give you all a really quick example of what I've done a thousand times on The Ken Coleman Show. Someone says, Ken, I don't know enough people.

Yeah.

So when someone says this, and Erica's still listening. So, Erica, here's what I want you to understand. You know everybody that you need to know, but this takes work. Let me give you a classic example. Here's what people do wrong, Dave.

No bait on the hook.

No, you've got to go to LinkedIn, and you go, okay. So I'm looking at a job right here, folks. I'm not going to say the company. It's a lead, full-stack developer. She's not qualified for that.

This takes work. Nothing wrong with Mary Poppins.

I know. But my point is, it's not just go out there and do it. It's you've got to work it and work it and work it to the point where someone goes, all right, I know Fred over there. And Fred knows the hiring manager. Fred's going to connect you based on our relationship.

Here's a copy of Ken's new book, number one bestseller, Proximity Principle.

That'll help.

The Proximity Principle is what we're talking about. Find someone that you're in proximity of the job with that can pull your resume out of the stack and walk it down the hall to their buddy and the hiring manager and go, hey, I don't know if she'll work out, but at least look at her. That happened to me last week. An old childhood friend texted me and said a friend of a friend's daughter has her stack, stuff in your stack. Would you pull it out?

Yeah, I think it's a portion of it. I'll tell you, the biggest cause is the sting of rejection. So every time you have to put yourself out there and ask somebody to help you, one of the hardest questions we know to ask is, will you help me? We don't want to feel like we're a burden to somebody. And we also don't want to potentially hear the word no.

People have digital courage. I mean, they'll say crap, trolling, and do crap. that would get their dadgum nose broken were they to do it in person. That's right. Somebody punched their freaking lights out.

Well, let's go a level deeper. Now we have ghosting where you don't even actually send a breakup text or whatever. You just don't show up.

Ever again.

It's a scourge. We have literally, there are story after story of businesses hiring people and their start day arrives and the person doesn't show up. They get worried about them. They reach out to them. They never hear from them.

I know it's called ghosting, but it's ghosting on a new hire.

They're not showing up.

We've had people start here two times in the last year, and I have raised cane with our recruiters and our interviewers because they shouldn't have gotten in the building. They started here and they quit on the first day because they found out, like, we work in stuff. Right. Yeah. Like, whoa.

Imagine taking a job at Dave Ramsey's place and discovering I had to work.

Why would that be a shock?

Right. Right. I work. I work. But I think you make a very good point.

Well, I'm going further than that. I'm saying not everybody in these generations. I'm not throwing a whole generation under the bus. That's right. But the skill of personal relationships has been stunted by this technology instead of enhanced by the technology.

And you're right, and I'm agreeing with you. But I'm saying what's really going on underneath all of that is this fear of rejection and fear to ask for help. And to your point, they've not exercised the muscle to where it's no longer scary. Yeah. And so you're absolutely at the pinpoint of why it feels better and feels easier to do what this young lady said.

Because I'll never forget. I was in my 20s and I went to a sales conference and the guy was talking about the guy with, there was a big, in my 20s, there was a huge real estate company called Century 21..

Yeah. Oh, sure.

And the guy that won the award for selling more houses than anybody else in this huge company was a Vietnam veteran. And they called him up to stage and he kind of was just this little guy, not real impressive looking. And they got him in front of the microphone. He really wasn't that impressive. And they're like, so how are you the number one guy in the nation?

Isn't that the truth?

So it's a muscle that's built. It's a great example. It's a muscle that's built.

And that's exactly right. So we all have to understand that when we put ourselves out there, just in the act of applying, what you are essentially doing is you are in a place of vulnerability. And you're kind of going, I hope they like me. And so now what's happened with this caller, and we hear this all the time, is she has tasted rejection so much that now she has really begun to believe the narrative that I can't find a job.

And developers, nobody's hiring developers in Atlanta. And in one keystroke, live on the air, you get 977 jobs to come up.

So what's happened? What's happened is….

The warped reality.

Right. But from what? I can't find anything. Nobody wants me. And we believe it.

I mean, when you're four years old, that's hard.

It's true.

I was young. But, you know, the idea is that you have got…. Let me tell you. Let me just say this. The most underrated, underused question in the world is, would you help me?

Most anybody will.

Just about everybody does. Successful people, who have been helped, by the way, they say this. Come on in. The water's nice. Sure.

There's plenty of room for everyone.

You have got to ask. Which means you've got to be okay here and know.

Success is not a fixed pie. There's a lot of room for all of us. Come on in. I'll help.

It's your classic story of the turtle.

Yeah. Turtle on a fence post. One thing you know if you see a turtle on a fence post. Two things you know. One is it's a curious sight.

And it's so rich.

Are you a turtle on a fence post? Most successful people feel like they're a turtle on a fence post. They know they didn't get there by themselves. Yep. And so they're willing to help.

And I just feel like there's some people out there who are watching and listening today that you need to hear. this. I'm going to share this. Years ago I had the opportunity to interview Soledad O'Brien. She was at CNN at the time.

I can move on.

And so we treat no's in the form of no reply to a job application. We treat no's in the form of I interviewed, I thought I did well, but I got beat out. And we treat that as this final period. end of statement. And I can tell you, Dave knows my story, I heard no from Ramsey leaders three years before I actually came here.

We weren't in a position to handle a thoroughbred like you.

Well, I don't know about that. It took a little while. No, I think you had to find a program.

It took a little while to get ready. We had to get a really good saddle and bridle.

But you get that. We got to start, well, no, is not final.

Exactly. It's true, though.

It's not now, right?

It's exactly right. It's just, it's a matter, well, or not here.

Not here, so what do we do?

Somewhere else. We keep moving. Somewhere else. Keep moving. The guy that turned down the book financial piece, one of my best friends, yeah, sold 3.2 million copies.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is Deloney, and I'm always railing against social media, especially in the summer, because everyone uploads the highlight reels of their perfect bodies and perfect vacations and perfect kids. And I know they're not real. And I also know that I'm blessed beyond my wildest dreams. But I still find myself wishing my life was like other people's.

Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality, is my co-host. All right, one last thing on that, and then I'm going to move on. Because one of our team members working in the lobby mentioned this to me at the break. I'm saying that we've got a couple of generations now that have grown up with a magic wand in their hand, and they have learned to think Facebook friends are real friends, which is a lie, or break up over text, and that there's a stunted growth associated with a digital level of communication versus a personal level, a relational level of communication. I'm not making that statement.

That's so true.

And so you had to kind of go around the corner to talk to your girlfriend and your sister, not here at the dinner table. I mean, how long a cord could you get on this thing? And so it was a different type, a different situation with communication. And we didn't fall prey to, we didn't have the option of doing something stupid that goes viral and stays on your digital tattoo the rest of your life. So we didn't have that disadvantage either.

Hi, Dave. Thank you for having me.

Sure. What's up?

So I want to know, do I have a moral obligation to financially support my sibling, who is likely to be $250,000 in debt?

No. You don't have a moral obligation to support your siblings, period, under any circumstances.

I understand that, but I have very limited family, and I'm actually worried for her health.

That's sweet, and you love her. But that's different than a moral obligation. I love my sister, and I want to help her is different than a moral obligation.

Okay. So let's phrase it that way. Is there a way I can help her that protects me?

Sure. Sure. Unless you want to give her $250,000 to pay it off, then you've got to coach her and be her cheerleader, to give her some instruction and some encouragement to work her way through this. You're her biggest fan. You're her biggest cheerleader.

She'll never work her way... Yes, she will. Okay, so she's almost 60.. Her net income is $50,000..

We'll change her income.

How do you...

What's her $250,000 in debt for?

Living large.

What's it owed on?

Pardon me?

What does she owe the money on?

Well, the primary is a line of credit that I think that she's put onto her mortgage, and then her mortgage. Okay. She doesn't even know... She doesn't think that she can actually...

Okay, so how much is her mortgage? What's her mortgage balance?

I would say probably... The grand sum I know is like $250,000 plus.

Okay. And what's the house worth? What's the house worth?

House is probably worth $600,000..

Sell it. Boom. She's out of debt.

That's what I think, but...

No, she's out of debt. She doesn't need help. She just needs somebody to go, if you want to be out of debt, I can tell you how to do it. Sell your house.

She has equity in it. I don't even know that. Yeah.

Well, you're dealing with a bunch of unknowns and a vague set of worries and a whiny sister.

And Helen, twice on this call...

Living for today, not worrying about tomorrow. Yeah.

You can't help, you can't make somebody grow up. That's up to them.

Helen, I've heard twice on this call, you begin to make excuses for her. And I think there's a bit of guilt. I think you started this call with a sense of guilt.

There is guilt because I'm financially secure.

Wait a second. But you didn't call her to be insecure.

What are you guilty of?

I hear you, but it's... I'm in the helping field. That's where I come from. So am I. It's like...

It's been every day of my life helping.

Would it be a good investment for me to buy the property and rent it to her? No! Okay.

The last thing you need to do is get involved in this woman's finances. She's an absolute out-of-control car wreck. Yeah. You need to stand back and just watch the car wreck. And say, darling, if you will turn left, you will not wreck the car.

Probably true, yeah.

Well, I think it's a step lower. I think it's lower. Deeper. I think you want to protect her from the car wreck. You see it coming.

Yeah, of course. Right?

Because that's what's all over you. You have guilt all over you. Like, it's your responsibility to stop the car wreck. Because you know it's coming. And I get that.

But people you love, all you can do is say, hey, what I've learned is that when I do this, I get pain. And when I do this, I get joy. And so I'm going to recommend the joy actions and behaviors. Not the pain actions and behaviors. And I love you, and I wish you'd do that.

Well, I haven't given her money.

Good. But you're about to.

If at all, no. I said, if I would give you money, it wouldn't be a gift. It would be a loan.

Don't do that. What do you want to be a creditor to this woman, for? She's not dependable.

It's like throwing a rock to somebody who's drowning. Don't loan her any money. Again, you're trying to help something that can't be helped.

Yeah. If she wants to make positive steps in a right direction, and you can do things to encourage her and cheer her on, even if you matched some of her debt reduction, and you said, hey, if you pay off $10,000 worth of debt, I'll put in $10,000 towards it. But if you just start loaning her money or giving her money, and she keeps on the same behavior pattern, that money went down a rat hole.

Yeah.

So you're not really helping. You're just enabling. when you do that. You're giving a drunk a drink.

That's what I'm trying to avoid. Yeah.

So don't get involved unless you can assist her moving in a positive direction that she has chosen to move in. She might have chosen because you talked to her about it, because you love her, you confronted her. All those kinds of things. But you have no moral obligation, no obligation of love to give a drunk a drink. As a matter of fact, there's quite the contrary.

Absolutely. I get you.

I love him. I'm not taking him there. Even if he wanted to go, I wouldn't take him there. And he doesn't want to go. So I'm not going to put him in a position where he's going to be in trouble.

It's true. We're like the Krispy Kreme store. We just keep making the donuts. Same recipe. Hot lights on.

Same questions, same advice.

Just rolling off the track there.

Whole other generation here doing the same stuff. And they've got more sophisticated tools for their stupid. That's great. Oh, Helen, you're a sweet lady. You're kind.

Hi. Thanks for having me. This is exciting.

It's an honor to have you. How can we help?

I have a car loan that I have been trying to get out of since I've got the car, because I was negative from the previous car and just tacked it on to the new car. I'm on baby step two, so I've got my savings from step one, and my goal is to pay this off as my only debt. I'm 35, and I make $43 a year. So my question is should I pay the principal down, because my payment is $613 a month. So can I pay the principal and then sell it to a private seller and give it time?

So what do you owe on the car?

It's $29,000..

Have you looked up what its value is today?

I looked it up on Kelly Blue Book. For a private seller, it would be like $24,000 to $25,000..

Okay, so you're $4,000 or $5,000 in the hole, right?

Yes, sir. Okay.

Are you single?

Yes, sir.

What is your income?

It's like per year.

Yes, per year.

Per year, it's like $43,000, and I just started making that because I just got it right.

Okay, you're right. This is a car that needs to be sold. I agree with you. Who's the loan with on the car? Who do you owe the money to?

It's through Southwest. They're like the Toyota. It's a Toyota. RAV, is what I have.

What's your interest rate?

It wasn't bad. I know it was under. It's around, I think, 6, 6. something.

That's very good. Okay. All right. Is your credit good?

Yes, sir.

Okay. I would hop to your local bank or your local credit union and talk to the manager in person about getting about a $10,000 loan for a $5,000 car and $5,000 extra to pay off the balance of this one to get this one sold.

Okay.

I'd rather you be $10,000 in debt than $30,000 in debt.

Exactly. Yes, sir. And I have learned that through watching y'all's videos and stuff. I'm definitely watching more than I probably should. But I've learned a lot.

It's a good addiction. If you're going to have an addiction, we're a good one.

Yes, sir. Yes. And I kind of wrote that in my notes and I've kind of been like contemplating, because I want to make a good decision going into my next decision, and I travel for work, so I need a vehicle. that's going to be a great aid to me, but also I need to make sure I'm not on the side of the road in a mess. Amen.

I agree. And I think you can probably do that for $10,000.. Well, no, it's going to be a $5,000 car. You might not do that for $5,000..

Okay. Yeah. And I didn't know, would it be better to sell to a person?

Whoever will give you the most money, but usually a dealer won't give you as much money as a private sales.

A private, okay.

A private is always going to be more than a dealer, because a dealer is buying it at wholesale to resell it to a private individual. Right. That makes sense. They want to make a profit, and so that's their idea. But the other option, of course, is do some things to increase your income.

Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure, Matt. What's up?

I just had my moment where I realized that things are really bad and they need to change.

Wow. So what happened? Tell me about it.

So things were looking really good. We had our first house we bought when we were young, about 22 or 23.. And we basically flipped that while we lived in it and sold that for a nice profit. And we moved up to a new house. Right around.

On what?

$110,000 of that is a student loan debt that should be forgiven by the government in three years.

No, it's not. That's absolutely bogus. Okay. Now then, what else have you got?

We have about $30,000 on cars, $55,000 on a truck that is about to go away, and $100,000 on a key lock. Yes.

Okay. And what else? What else other than the truck?

$100,000 on a key lock.

Okay. And what's your household income?

We bring home around $67,000 a month.

$67,000 a year?

I'm sorry. $6,000 to $7,000 is what we bring home every month.

Oh, per month. I got you. Okay. I'm hearing you now. All right.

I think so, but I'm just trying to kind of... I wanted to hear your opinion on it.

I'll tell you. the thing that's bothering me the most is there's no fight in your voice. You sound defeated.

I'm a little nervous, but...

Oh, okay. That's fair.

...we've had a lot of fights. That's fair. Yeah. I've been working about 16 hours a day.

Okay. That's fair.

Seven days a week for about a year, but... ...I realized just a few weeks ago I've been really grinding.

Yeah, okay. Well, you may need a little rest to start with, but that explains it. I wasn't being critical. I just want to make sure that you've got enough gas in your tank, because the math I'm seeing with the sale of the truck, you can push through this. You can scratch your way through it, but you do have to stop all of the negative habits of overspending that you've been doing.

I'll just be quick and to the point. 2020, 2021, I was working a mortgage company. They closed their doors in 2022.. I was making quite a bit. Now I'm a teacher.

Not paying taxes is not a criminal act. Not filing taxes is a criminal act. That's the danger that you're in. I'm more concerned about that than I am. the payment plan.

Yes, sir. Yeah.

Like, what'd you make that year?

Probably $2,250..

And you paid zero taxes?

Yes, sir.

I want you to get it done now. I don't want them to come find you. Okay? I want you to go to them, like, immediately. No later than the middle of January.

Dave, I'm doing a lot better. I'm doing a lot better from that last call, and I appreciate the help and advice.

Sure. Tell me what happened.

I got online. I got hooked up with a Dave Ramsey-endorsed tax professional who basically said kind of what you said. Sounds like. you know you've done dumb and you've got a long road ahead of you, but I'm here to help. Send me an affidavit to basically sign and everything, stating that if the IRS contacts you, we're going to be able to talk on your behalf.

So you've gotten a filing done.

I took your advice, got the filing done as soon as possible. I think it was maybe mid to late January. once it was all said and done.

Okay. And now you've got a huge bill with a payment plan.

Well, yeah. I had about $60,000, $70,000 I put towards it, which dropped it down to about $20,000..

Oh, that's not bad at all. I thought you were in a deeper mess than that. That's awesome. It's horrible that that money's gone, but I'm glad you had – somehow I didn't remember you having a pile of money, or maybe I didn't know that from the call. I don't know.

Yes, sir. That's correct. Ouch. And, you know, it's just something about every phone call. I know, as dumb as it sounds, every phone call you get, when you're in that predicament, you're thinking, oh, my gosh, I wonder if that's the IRS calling me, asking me, why haven't you filed, or anything else.

Where are you, so we can come get you? Yeah. Right. The monster's in the closet.

Yeah, getting it filed, getting that number and getting that – at least that – it still hurts. But just the unknown, not knowing when you may get that call or that certified letter, or whatever the case may be, is a lot scarier than what that number was.

So true.

Well done. Well done. Thank you. You were brave. That took some courage.

A hundred times over.

Yeah, so maybe that'll inspire some of the people to take care of something. Because sometimes, when you've got something just off in the background from your past and it's hovering out there and you're just waiting on it, you know, the shoe to drop, so to speak, that is a lot scarier than just dealing with it, and you go, oh, that's hot. I mean, $20,000, we'll get through this. That's all that's left. I mean, $90,000..

No, sir. Okay.

So you're single. All right. Yes, sir. In a sense, that makes it scarier, because it's just you. Right.

Yeah, just knowing that.

Go ahead, Marcus.

Like I said, just the unknown. Just, you know, the phone calls and thinking, you know, sometimes, you know, it'll say USA or U.S. or something on your phone, and it sounds stupid. No, it doesn't.

No, it doesn't sound stupid at all.

When you see headlines like they're arming IRS agents and hiring 80,000 more, I mean, that's kind of a real nightmare. Here's my quick question. Obviously, you went into the tax pro to solve the current issue. Did you walk away with, speaking of things that you know, did you learn some things? Do you have some better strategies going forward?

Yeah. I mean, I told him, I said, I'm not sure, you know, I said, that number's a lot less than I expected. I said, you will be my CPA for life. You know, and he just, he really kind of talked me through it. You know, he followed up with what was needed.

Yeah.

That's a great feeling.

It's a great feeling. It's like if you're the little guy at school and the football player says, I'll take up for you. Here's my number.

I'm not kidding you. I was getting ready to say, I was like, I feel like that happened to me once or twice. Hey, Colbin, I got it. Just don't go out on the playground. All right?

I love it. Marcus, congratulations. That took a lot of courage. I'm glad you did that. And thanks for allowing us the honor of the follow-up call.

Hey, thank you guys for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

Hey, so I have a question regarding my career. So a while back, about a month and a half ago, I kind of asked myself the age-old question of if I could wake up and do any job in the world, what would I be doing?

Such a great question.

And I came across the answer of being a pilot. Oh, fun. For a while, I've been interested in planes and aviation, and I've been to a bunch of aviation museums across the country. It's just been something I've been interested in for a long time.

Training's expensive. A lot of time and money. It's a lot. Yep.

Training's expensive. Job security is iffy, depending on when you enter the market and when you finish your training. So it's a lot. And I have a very stable career right now. I make decent money for what I do.

No, I don't think you're stuck. I think you're scared. And I would be scared at this kind of staring at this giant mountain of time and money. that is the transition you're going to have to make. But I would say that the stable job is.

Absolutely.

All right, now we've got an answer. And I want to just get real personal for a second. I was 33 years of age when I got to a conclusion that I was supposed to go into broadcasting, but I had no degree in it and zero experience. And everybody I talked to in Atlanta told me I was too old. And truthfully, I was.

You get your hours. You get your licenses. You put the hours in. Because you've got to get the hours in the air under your belt. There's no exception to that.

How many years, based on your financial situation, have you mapped this out, how long it's going to take you to save up the money? Because you know we don't want you to go into debt just in order to get on a big old plane. What's it going to look like?

Yeah, I've thought about that. I actually ran the numbers a bit ago. And in theory, I should be able to cash flow flight school by the summer of 2026.. Okay. Assuming I'm working full-time while going through flight school.

That's two years to get started. What's it look like, the full timeline on the other side of that, when you're ready to get hired?

So, from what I've heard, it's generally 18 to 24 months to go from zero hours to a commercial flight instructor, which is the most common way to build hours. And then, after you get commercial flight instructor, it takes around another two, three years, depending on how many flight hours you get. It depends a lot on region, weather, stuff like that, students, how big the school you work for is.

Yeah. But it's very doable.

So, from zero hours to air transport pilot license minimum, generally it's three to six years.

Okay. So, let's split the difference, right? So, let's say four and a half, and that's starting at 2026.. So, by 2030-ish, we're ready to roll.

Yeah. In a best case scenario, yeah.

I know. But I'm just letting you get your head wrapped around that, because that is, we're talking about a four to seven year play, and you got to be signed up for that. But on the other side of that, I want to challenge one of your suppositions. The airline industry is in dire need of talent. And so, you keep your nose clean, you do a good job, you become extremely likable, really work the relationship game this entire time.

You married?

No, I'm young. That's one of the advantages. How old are you? I'm 20..

Oh, I love this. 27,. he's doing it.

Why don't you go the Air Force route? It'd be faster.

It's true.

I actually have a medical condition that prevents me from flying for the military.

Oh, okay.

I have amblyopia in my right eye, the lazy eye, so it is uncorrectable to 2020..

Okay.

But you can fly commercially with that condition? Yeah.

Yeah, just military. They've got heavy requirements.

I would have to go through some medical process or the FAA. So, yes, I can, but that's a process. I wouldn't be able to jump immediately into training with the medical license I need.

Yeah, that's right. Okay. All right. Gosh. Yeah.

He's a sharp young man who's laid it out.

And here's the other thing, Ian. I want you to give yourself permission along the way for you to decide, oh, it's not a career, it's a hobby.

That's a good point.

And maybe I've got a different career in front of me, and that's okay, too. You could go. I mean, the number of guys that I know, and I'm in my 60s, that are pilots that do it just because they enjoy flying. They are not doing it for a career, but they've gone and gotten their pilot's license because they enjoyed the intellectual stimulation and the thrill of flying and having the airplane at their control. There's a bunch of them, a bunch of good friends, that do that.

I see you in one of those stunt planes. Yeah.

Just zipping through the sky. I wouldn't be doing anything else. I'm not a good personality for that. That's why I did not try to learn to play golf until I was almost 60, because I knew it would get sucked in, and I did.

I just want to see you in one of those old school planes with the leather hat and the goggles.

A little Snoopy hat. Yeah. Snoopy and the Red Baron.

Yeah, the chin strap flapping in the wind.

Yeah, I've actually got a picture of me doing that in a biplane, but I wasn't flying it.

Yeah, but I like that. I've got to see that. I need to see the picture. Now, we do know that you like to jump out of planes.

I have done that.

That's kind of a thing for you. Are you done with that? Have you gotten that out of your system?

No, I'll do it again. I mean, it's fun. I'm not doing it every weekend. Right. Yeah.

You're a recreational skydiver. You and George Herbert Walker Bush.

There you go. There you go.

Our 41st president got into it.

Well, yeah, I think that was his military training, if I recall. Good job, Ian. Very cool.

Sharp, young man who's really laid it out.

And, you know, most people want to microwave everything. He's willing to crock-pot it.

Sounds like it. That's what it takes.

That's a big deal right there. That ability to delay, pleasure to win, that's called maturity, regardless of the number of years you've been on the planet. This is the Ramsey Show.

We know you work hard for your money. And the key to keeping more of it in your pocket is by making a plan for your spending with a budget. And EveryDollar is the budgeting app that I use personally, because it's perfect for looking every dollar you make in its little president face and telling it exactly where you want it to go. Just like you told that guy in traffic exactly where you wanted him to go. And even better, EveryDollar walks you through the entire budgeting journey, so you always know your next right step.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Today's question of the day is from Adam in Florida. I'm a new listener and I've got a burning question. Is there any way to leverage debt and stay aligned with your methods?