Aid To Ukraine, Sen. Tuberville and Military Promotions, Fourth Republican Debate

2023-12-06 00:14:21

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5Speaker 5
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Ukraine's counteroffensive against Russia brought few gains on the battlefield.

4Speaker 4
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These days, people are exhausted, people are tired.

00:10.60 – 00:14.70

Will the U.S. and European Union approve more aid to Ukraine despite the current stalemate?

5Speaker 5
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I'm Steve Inskeep with Michelle Martin, and this is Up First from NPR News.

00:21.96 – 00:26.76

Senator Tommy Tuberville mostly dropped his protest against a Pentagon rule on abortion.

4Speaker 4
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We've still got a bad policy.

3Speaker 3
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We've tried to stand up for the taxpayers of this country.

5Speaker 5
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So why did he finally let 400 promotions go forward now?

4Speaker 4
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And a Republican primary debate is tonight in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, with just four presidential

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candidates.

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If you don't win over those Alabamans in the debate room, that may fall short of what people

00:46.34 – 00:47.60

see then on TV.

00:47.88 – 00:50.26

Is there any fallout from Trump skipping the debate again?

00:50.74 – 00:51.24

Stay with us.

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On the TED Radio Hour, MIT psychologist Sherry Turkle.

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Her latest research into the intimate relationships people are having with chatbots.

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Technologies that say, I care about you, I love you, I'm here for you, take care of me.

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The pros and cons of artificial intimacy.

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That's on the TED Radio Hour from NPR.

02:14.90 – 02:20.24

Ukraine is facing a crisis over billions in military and economic aid from its most important

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backers, the United States and the European Union.

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Europeans are divided, the U.S. Congress is frozen, and the White House says Russia will

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win this war without more funding.

5Speaker 5
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Bad timing.

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Ukraine's counteroffensive has stalled and Russian forces are advancing.

4Speaker 4
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NPR's Ukraine correspondent, Joanna Kakissis, is with us from Kiev to tell us more about

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all this.

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Hello, Joanna.

1Speaker 1
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Hello, Michelle.

4Speaker 4
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So why is aid to Ukraine up in the air right now?

1Speaker 1
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So, Michelle, let's start with the United States, which has been perhaps Ukraine's biggest

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global champion.

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U.S. aid to Ukraine is set to run out at the end of this year, and now it looks unlikely

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that Congress will approve new aid before then.

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Republicans say they won't approve a spending bill that includes $61 billion for Ukraine

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unless there's money for border funding.

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Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was supposed to speak via video link to the Senate,

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but he canceled at the last minute.

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Zelensky's chief of staff, though, is in D.C., and Ukraine's foreign minister insists that

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the Ukrainians are lobbying everyone to make sure the funding comes through.

4Speaker 4
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And what about the European Union, Ukraine's other major supporter?

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And they're closer to the action, frankly.

1Speaker 1
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That's right.

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Well, it turns out that the leaders of the European Union are also divided.

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They're supposed to meet next week to discuss a budget that includes the equivalent of about

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$54 billion in military and economic aid to Ukraine.

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And they're also set to decide whether to open membership talks with Ukraine.

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But any decisions, Michelle, require the approval of all 27 member states.

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And right now, the prime minister of Hungary, Viktor Orban, he says he opposes more aid

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to Ukraine, as well as opening EU membership talks.

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Orban is close to the Kremlin, as is another EU leader, the prime minister of Slovakia.

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I spoke with a Ukrainian journalist and soldier, Pavlo Kazarin, about this, and he told me

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that all this uncertainty only helps Russia.

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He's saying if what we're talking about here is decreasing or stopping aid or the supply

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of weapons, of course, this means that Ukraine will lose more territory.

4Speaker 4
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So, Joanna, tell us more about what's happening on the battlefield now.

1Speaker 1
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Yeah, well, even as winter sets in, parts of the front line are on fire.

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For the last couple of months, Russian forces have been pushing hard to capture Ukrainian

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land on two fronts in the east.

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The most difficult battle is around a town called Avdiivka.

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Before the war, it had about 32,000 people.

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It also has Ukraine's largest coke plant, and that's the fuel, not the soda.

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Now only a few hundred residents remain in Avdiivka.

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They're hiding in basements, and the Russians are advancing.

4Speaker 4
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And what about the Ukrainian counteroffensive that we've heard so much about?

1Speaker 1
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Yeah, well, the ground operations for Ukraine's counteroffensive are largely stalled, in part

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because Russian forces have fortified their positions and landmined the front, especially

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in the south.

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I spoke to a member of Ukraine's parliament, Zolomia Bobrovska, as she serves on the Defense

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Committee, and she tells me what she's hearing from her constituents.

4Speaker 4
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These days, people are exhausted, people are tired.

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People understand that if you want to get victory and to take one village and to put

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one flag, it costs a lot.

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And that's a long way we have to go still.

1Speaker 1
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And so it feels like this will be a very bleak winter.

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The mood around the country is much more pessimistic than it was last year.

4Speaker 4
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That's in Paris.

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Joanna Kakissis in Kyiv.

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Joanna, thank you so much.

1Speaker 1
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You're welcome, Michelle.

4Speaker 4
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Back here in the U.S., after nine months, Alabama Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville

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has allowed more than 400 military promotions to proceed.

5Speaker 5
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He'd been putting a hold on Senate votes to approve those promotions.

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A hold like this is the prerogative of any senator, though it's rarely used to this extent.

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Tuberville was protesting a Pentagon policy that reimbursed service members for traveling

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for abortion services.

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He admits he failed to change that policy.

4Speaker 4
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We didn't get the win that we wanted.

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We still got a bad policy.

3Speaker 3
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We tried to stand up for the taxpayers of this country.

4Speaker 4
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NPR Congressional Correspondent Deirdre Walsh is with us now to tell us more about this.

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Good morning, Deirdre.

3Speaker 3
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Good morning, Michelle.

4Speaker 4
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So as we've just said, this has been going on for months now.

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What made Tuberville decide to back down now?

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Like, why now?

3Speaker 3
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Really political pressure, but notably some of the most public criticism came from fellow

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Senate Republicans who are growing frustrated.

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Some sharp rebukes came from military veterans like Iowa Senator Joni Ernst, Alaska Senator

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Dan Sullivan, who warned about the damage this was causing to the military.

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Also, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer was planning a vote to get around Tuberville's

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hold to change how the Senate approves military promotions, and some Senate Republicans were

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open to voting for that.

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Senators complained Tuberville was blocking hundreds of officers' promotions over a policy

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that they weren't involved in crafting.

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This was a policy put into place after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade.

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It covered the costs service members incurred for accessing abortion services.

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Some needed to travel out of state following new laws banning the procedure.

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Tuberville admitted the holds didn't work, but he said he might fight the policy in court.

4Speaker 4
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I think we saw some success.

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We didn't get as much out of it as we wanted.

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But again, when they changed the rules on you, I had no opportunity to, other than possibly

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down the road, a lawsuit.

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Okay, he says he had some success.

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Did he?

3Speaker 3
07:55.94 – 07:56.14

No.

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I mean, no policy change at all.

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I mean, he argues he put a spotlight on the issue, but he also admitted any legal fight

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he could wage could take a really long time to play out.

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His hold to block actions on these promotions was really unprecedented in terms of how many

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people it impacted, how long it lasted.

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But as Steve mentioned, under Senate rules, any one senator has the ability to place these

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holds.

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Schumer warned this episode should be a warning to others to not do this.

4Speaker 4
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He held out for many, many months, hurt our national security, caused discombobulation

2Speaker 2
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to so many military families who have been so dedicated to our country and didn't get

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anything that he wanted.

4Speaker 4
08:35.06 – 08:37.58

And what's the Pentagon's response to this whole episode?

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And I also want to know, he hasn't dropped all the holds.

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Has he?

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There are still some that he's holding up.

3Speaker 3
08:42.48 – 08:42.78

Right.

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He's still holding up 11 four-star generals.

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Tuberville says he wants a more thorough vetting of these top leaders.

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The Pentagon is pushing for them to be approved quickly.

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The Pentagon spokesman, Brigadier General Pat Ryder, stressed that these generals include

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the vice chiefs of various services, the commander of the Pacific Fleet, the Northern Command,

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commander of Cyber Command, Space Command.

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Ryder says these are all key areas overseeing a lot of policy and need Senate approval quickly.

4Speaker 4
09:10.70 – 09:18.20

Clearly vital and critical organizations, all of which require experienced senior leaders

2Speaker 2
09:18.20 – 09:19.12

in those positions.

4Speaker 4
09:19.94 – 09:23.46

Quickly, Deirdre, before we let you go, what were the repercussions of this backlog on

09:23.46 – 09:25.00

the families of service members?

3Speaker 3
09:25.72 – 09:27.92

A lot of people were in limbo for months.

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Officers were unable to move for their new positions.

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That impacted their spouses getting jobs or their kids starting new schools.

09:35.40 – 09:40.40

Schumer brought up the promotions hours after Tuberville released the hold, and over 400

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were approved by voice vote.

4Speaker 4
09:42.52 – 09:43.94

That is NPR's Deirdre Walsh.

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Deirdre, thank you.

3Speaker 3
09:45.06 – 09:45.60

Thanks, Michelle.

4Speaker 4
10:00.42 – 10:05.02

Four of the remaining Republican presidential candidates will be on stage for tonight's

10:05.02 – 10:06.08

debate in Alabama.

5Speaker 5
10:06.50 – 10:09.20

And four is the smallest lineup so far.

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Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, the entrepreneur

10:14.26 – 10:18.12

Vivek Ramaswamy, and former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie.

10:18.68 – 10:22.86

Former President Trump will not be there instead attending a fundraiser near Miami.

4Speaker 4
10:23.28 – 10:27.70

NPR's Franco Ordoñez is here with us to talk about the stakes of this fourth Republican

10:27.70 – 10:29.92

debate, and he's actually here with us in the studio.

10:30.04 – 10:30.44

Good morning.

2Speaker 2
10:30.60 – 10:31.18

Good morning, Michelle.

4Speaker 4
10:31.48 – 10:33.44

Okay, so who are you going to be watching most closely?

2Speaker 2
10:33.86 – 10:36.44

You know, Michelle, I'm going to be watching Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis.

10:36.78 – 10:39.48

I expect a lot of people will be also.

10:39.68 – 10:41.20

I mean, Haley's got some momentum.

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She's actually caught up to DeSantis in the polls.

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And that's really led to some greater interest for her on the campaign trail as well as with

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donors.

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You know, she's also picked up some big money donors in recent weeks.

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And this debate is another chance for her to make the case that she's the best alternative

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to Trump, who, of course, is still the frontrunner.

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DeSantis, meanwhile, is going to try to defend his second place position.

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He's really fighting for attention.

4Speaker 4
11:05.38 – 11:09.70

Okay, so the debate is in Alabama, but the Iowa caucuses are just six weeks away.

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So how are they going to sort of handle that or speak to that?

2Speaker 2
11:13.60 – 11:14.22

Right, right.

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You know, there's going to be a lot of Alabama Republicans in the room, but they don't vote

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until Super Tuesday, which is in March.

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Republican strategist Doug Hyde told me that's just too late.

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He says the most important voters are in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina.

4Speaker 4
11:27.50 – 11:32.06

Now, you still have to win over the room, because if you don't win over those Alabamans

11:32.06 – 11:36.82

in the debate room, that may fall short of what people see then on TV.

5Speaker 5
11:37.28 – 11:40.90

But if you're Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis, especially, and you want to have a breakout

4Speaker 4
11:40.90 – 11:46.28

moment here, that breakout moment is defined by how you translate into the polls into those

11:46.28 – 11:48.02

early caucus and primary states.

2Speaker 2
11:48.02 – 11:52.62

Now, he expects the candidates will be spending a lot of time speaking to issues that are

11:52.62 – 11:54.38

important to voters in those three states.

11:54.90 – 11:58.44

And plus, you know, a Republican primary, there's really not a lot of difference between

11:58.44 – 12:00.80

the policy positions for those remaining candidates.

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So they need to stand out in other ways.

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It's going to be more about personalities.

4Speaker 4
12:05.22 – 12:07.92

Okay, but the biggest personality, Trump, won't be there.

12:08.02 – 12:10.82

I think, Franco, I think we keep saying this over and over again.

12:10.92 – 12:11.82

I mean, this is the fourth debate.

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This is the fourth time he hasn't gone.

12:13.60 – 12:15.92

Has his absence made a difference?

2Speaker 2
12:16.44 – 12:19.02

I mean, it really hasn't dented his support.

12:19.46 – 12:24.16

You know, he still, of course, is going to be, you know, the elephant who is not in the

12:24.16 – 12:24.44

room.

12:24.66 – 12:28.88

He's going to likely dominate all parts of the conversation, or at least many parts of

12:28.88 – 12:29.58

the conversation.

12:29.78 – 12:35.02

We'll see if the candidates go after him directly, which they haven't so much.

12:35.40 – 12:37.74

And his hold really remains very strong.

4Speaker 4
12:38.02 – 12:42.62

But this time, he doesn't have some separate event planned to coincide with the debate.

2Speaker 2
12:42.82 – 12:44.76

Yeah, that's probably the biggest change.

12:44.76 – 12:46.74

There's no counter-programming, per se.

12:47.10 – 12:50.66

You know, he hasn't scheduled any other events to kind of steal attention away.

12:51.00 – 12:53.06

And that's, you know, not insignificant.

12:53.50 – 12:56.72

I mean, that means maybe more Republicans will tune into the debate.

12:56.94 – 13:00.98

And really, with fewer candidates on stage, that means they might have some more time

13:00.98 – 13:01.46

to talk.

13:01.56 – 13:02.88

They might have some more time to shine.

13:03.36 – 13:07.28

But, you know, again, this is still very much a race for second place.

13:07.48 – 13:11.42

And these debates, they're kind of supposed to be these big events in the presidential

13:11.42 – 13:13.36

primaries, you know, these marquee nights.

13:13.36 – 13:18.20

But Trump's absence has kind of sapped some of that energy away, kind of taken away some

13:18.20 – 13:20.64

of the drama that we've come to expect every four years.

4Speaker 4
13:20.84 – 13:21.04

All right.

13:21.14 – 13:22.48

That is NPR's Franco O'Donohue.

13:22.64 – 13:23.26

Franco, thank you.

2Speaker 2
13:23.42 – 13:23.90

Thank you, Michelle.

4Speaker 4
13:29.84 – 13:32.64

And that's up first for Wednesday, December 6th.

13:32.64 – 13:33.38

I'm Michelle Martin.

5Speaker 5
13:33.56 – 13:34.50

And I'm Steve Inskeep.

13:34.54 – 13:40.10

Today's episode was edited by Mark Ketkoff, Kelsey Snell, and Megan Prats, produced by

13:40.10 – 13:42.70

Lily Quiroz, Monsi Quarana, and Lindsay Todd.

13:42.70 – 13:47.96

We get engineering support from the ever-supportive Stacey Abbott, and our technical director is

13:47.96 – 13:48.50

Zach Coleman.

13:48.70 – 13:49.22

Join us tomorrow.

4Speaker 4
13:49.54 – 13:52.16

The NPR app lets you keep public radio in your pocket.

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You'll find a mix of local, national, and international news, plus the best podcasts

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from the NPR network.

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Download the NPR app in your app store today.

5Speaker 5
14:01.66 – 14:04.12

I got public radio in my pocket.

4Speaker 4
14:04.62 – 14:05.12

Mm-hmm.

14:05.98 – 14:07.02

Or purse.

?Unknown Speaker
14:12.70 – 14:13.66

Mm-hmm.

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