America This Week, January 05, 2024

2024-01-05 00:30:30

Welcome to America This Week, with Matt Taibbi and Walter Kirn, the national news wrap-up so true, we recommend you stow all sharp objects before reading. <br/><br/><a href="https://www.racket.news/s/america-this-week?utm_medium=podcast">www.racket.news</a>

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All right, welcome to America This Week, and I'm Matt Taibbi.

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And I'm Walter Kern.

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Walter, how was your holiday?

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My holiday was splendid in a way that my life usually isn't.

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On New Year's Eve, I was the guest of Fontainebleau Hotel in Las Vegas along with my wife, and

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we were able to join in a kind of celebration that I thought had passed from this earth.

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There were truffles in baskets, black truffles the size of golf balls.

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It was actually like the driving range where you get a bucket of balls, except you got

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a bucket of truffles at this party.

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Wow.

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Yeah, they made risotto.

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I'd never seen a whole truffle before.

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They're kind of like lumps of coal.

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Let alone a bucket of them.

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Yeah.

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And, you know, the thief in me, you know, there's a thief in all of us, I like to think,

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saw these buckets of truffles and just wanted to liberate a single one.

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But I was sure that the Vegas security net was as tight as ever, so I didn't get grabbed.

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Oh, that's true, because the eye in the sky, right?

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You'd end up in a back room with Robert De Niro breaking your hand bones with a hammer,

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right?

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Yeah, or worse, Joe Pesci.

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Joe Pesci, yeah, exactly, yeah, with a pen, yeah.

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But yeah, I was able to see the fireworks of the Las Vegas Strip from the top of the

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tallest building in Nevada, the tallest habitable building.

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There's a kind of a tower in Las Vegas that's taller, that doesn't have rooms, the Stratosphere.

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But Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck were in attendance at the same party.

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Wow.

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I was able to glimpse their love from afar.

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Did it have like an aura?

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Was it like, was it visible?

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Well, it was visible in the form of many security guards.

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Here's what it takes to be a Hollywood A-lister.

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You can have a ring of security guards at a party where everybody else is pretty fancy.

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It's been pre-selected.

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There was a private elevator, you had to have wristbands.

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And so there aren't any, you know, paparazzi or anyone just sort of molest you, but still

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you're ringed by however many, you know, glowering guards.

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And behind that group, behind that group of guards, you party as though you're just a

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regular person, you know, as though you don't notice the fact that no one else can come

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near you except those who have been pre-approved to come past the perimeter.

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So I gawked rather like I would at the Penguin exhibit, you know, to see how they were doing

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back there.

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He was in a white suit.

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I wonder if, is that to keep people from like approaching or is that a real security issue?

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You know, it's definitely a status symbol.

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I don't think there was anyone who, as I say, posed much of a threat.

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It kept me from approaching, I'll tell you that.

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I mean, I didn't want to have to give a password or go through whatever frisking was necessary

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to advance 12 inches across that barrier.

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But it was a Vegas party in style.

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There was caviar, you know, not just truffles.

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There was a hidden room where sushi was dispensed.

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Sushi that you could not have obtained, you know, legally in any other way from fish that,

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you know.

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Right.

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It's like coelacanth or something like that, right?

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Exactly.

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Extinct three million, three hundred million years ago.

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Oh, the, you know, the optic nerve of the giant squid sliced thin on a cracker.

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Oh, exactly.

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With a soup saw of what's a good endangered animal, like land based animal?

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I don't know.

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You know, a koala or something like that.

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Koala toes.

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No, I don't know.

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Koalas maybe.

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You know, the timber wolf.

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Right.

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Yeah, exactly.

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The red wolf.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, right.

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The red wolf eyelid spread across, you know.

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A little lump of sushi rice.

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So, yeah, we consumed extinct animals in the company of A-list stars while staring out

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or gazing out at the Las Vegas Strip as far as what works.

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And the thing that we got to see from our perch was the sphere.

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The new Las Vegas attraction, which is this giant, you know, bowling ball just

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off the strip that is constantly illuminated with changing psychedelic

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patterns and is as big as a stadium.

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And I've got, it's one of the first impressive new structures I've seen

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in America for a long time.

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I was going to say, like, America is a little wanting on the sort of

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impressive big things.

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At least lately.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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We used to toss them off all the time.

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Yeah, here's the Grand Coulee Dam, you know, whatever.

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Right, right, right.

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No, this is worthy of Shanghai or one of the cities that will soon lead the world.

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And because it's round, they have to do spectacles that involve round things.

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So it often turns into a giant happy face and winks at you.

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It does things like that.

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Other times, it's just the biggest lava lamp, the biggest dorm room lava

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lamp ever constructed.

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But that's awesome.

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I'm all for that.

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It was awesome, you know, and people who know awesome, like Elon Musk,

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have visited the sphere and said that it qualifies as a new example

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of awesomeness.

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So I was kind of heartened for America.

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We still innovate.

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I think we have the only sphere on the planet.

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If you have thousands of dollars, you can see YouTube play inside it.

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We should have a Department of Awesome in the end, a cabinet-level agency.

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Well, under Trump, I think that's been promised, has it not?

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One week ago, I mean, one week, maybe a few months ago, he promised some

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actual infrastructure improvements to the United States.

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Interesting, interesting.

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So we need that, a new cabinet-level awesome agency, and we do have

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to take Greenland.

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I think we should just take it.

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I was so disappointed when we didn't buy Greenland.

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And I'm told, my sources tell me, and this is worthless as journalism

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file under gossip, that American oligarchs are going to buy Greenland anyway.

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That the reason we didn't buy it as a state, as a nation, is that

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Because somebody else wants it.

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They're private entities who want it, because there's vast mineral wealth,

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especially metals and so on, which could drive battery-powered cars and so on.

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I don't know if it's lithium or other things.

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Yeah, I was talking about this with a friend.

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We gave up on that idea too easily.

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We should have just sent an email to Denmark, right?

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I mean, what are they going to do?

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From this press-at-state-dot-gov email account to saying,

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Oh, by the way, we've decided that, you know,

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Monroe Doctrine, bitch, we're going to take this.

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And if you have any objections, talk to the EU or fight or whatever

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it is you choose to do.

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What are they going to do?

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I mean, they're Denmark.

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Right.

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Exactly.

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And if there are any clear lessons from American history,

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at least the history that I learned in grade school in the 1970s,

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it's that when confronted with a giant real estate purchase that's possible,

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the American government should always buy rather than pass.

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Seward's Folly turned out well.

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The Louisiana Purchase turned out well.

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If there was any clear lesson from history,

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it's that when offered a giant chunk of a continent

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or, you know, piece of the globe for less,

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for actual money, just buy it.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And we can always depreciate the currency later, right?

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I mean, you know.

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We're doing that anyway.

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We're doing that anyway.

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Well, anyway, there's been a lot of news since you and I were last at a show

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and thanks, by the way, to all listeners in America this week

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for that week holiday, which we missed you all, but it was a good holiday.

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A lot of stuff happened, four big things in particular,

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but there's one that's kind of hot in the news today.

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By the way, when this show is actually up,

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it'll be Friday, I'll be in Iowa officially starting

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a year of being on the campaign trail.

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So there's going to be some other videos you should look for on Racket today

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if you're watching this.

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So we'll talk about the campaign later,

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but there were a series of stories that were really interesting already this week.

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Do you want to get into the Claudine Gay thing?

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I mean, I didn't follow it so much at the time,

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but it's kind of fascinating to look at from afar.

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Well, because I have a wife who attended Harvard

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and attempts to lord it over me

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and because I myself went to Princeton,

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the superior institution of quiet people.

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Oh, wow.

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Yeah, the quiet types who run the world, you know.

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I might have to go run off and throw up a little bit,

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but then...

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Yeah, believe me.

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Any populist sympathies you might ascribe to me

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are going to be thrown into question

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when you realize that I have a Princeton-Harvard rivalry

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going on in my house,

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as though such a repulsive thing could be of interest to anyone.

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But yeah, well, Princeton has quiet people like Alan Dulles

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who just secretly run the world.

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Harvard has people who loudly and out front run the world.

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Princeton produces great drummers,

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and Harvard leads singers.

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So in other words, I pay special attention to this.

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And yesterday, Claudine Gay threw it in.

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She decided to follow the UPenn president out the door

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following weeks of scrutiny and controversy

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that started over her congressional testimony

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in which she was accused of not properly...

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Genuflecting.

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Just backing up, the timeline on this is

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the Gaza thing happens,

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there are hearings in Congress

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at which these university presidents

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are basically asked to condemn Hamas, right?

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And they kind of flub the question.

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I should confess, I hate that tactic.

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It's an old campaign trail trick

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to make a candidate look like an idiot

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no matter what the answer.

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So you might remember from the debate in 2020

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when Joe Biden and Chris Wallace

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were asking Trump to condemn the Proud Boys.

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You either look like you're kissing ass to the questioner

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or like you're endorsing something horrible.

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The video that emerges from that is almost universally bad.

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So my feeling is always like

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the only way to answer those questions

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is like what Ramaswamy did yesterday

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or the other day before when somebody

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from the Washington Post asked him to renounce.

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White supremacy, you know,

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I understand the game you're playing,

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like screw you, I'm not going to bow to your catechism,

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that kind of thing.

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You can answer it like that,

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but if you do it in any other way,

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it's going to look bad no matter what

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and I think media amateurs sometimes struggle

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in that situation.

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Having said that, they didn't answer all that well.

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And this is what set in motion the whole thing, basically.

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In her case, there's an additional problem

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that was actually uncovered, though.

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It was discovered that in Claudine Gay's academic past,

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she had cited without reference

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or copied or included in her papers

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pieces of text

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from other professors,

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other writers.

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And these plagiarism

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and these

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plagiarism examples

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started to mount.

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More and more were found

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and Harvard defended her unanimously.

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It resulted in a lot of euphemistic defense

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like duplicative language,

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I think was a term

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that was used to substitute

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for plagiarism.

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There was a lot of what you might call

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Jesuitical argument

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over what constitutes plagiarism

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and so on.

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But the trend was against her.

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They just kept turning up more examples.

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They also got certain academic groups

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to condemn her

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and then some of the authors of papers

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that she appeared to have borrowed from

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also spoke out against her.

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And what I said at the time

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when this stuff first came to light

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and Harvard insisted on keeping her

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was that it was like

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Harvard had fallen into a ditch

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and rather than getting out of it

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would have been getting rid of her

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they decided to build a house there

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and they mounted a big defense

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they used all these euphemisms

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they suggested that they had already

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investigated this stuff

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but it also came out

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that the New York Post had been about

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to run a story back when

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before this controversy came to the fore

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about her plagiarism

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alleged plagiarism problems

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and Harvard had threatened them

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with lawsuits

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and the Post did not run the story

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and Harvard also claimed

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that it did a private investigation

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and exonerated her.

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But I think personally

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I knew that her days were limited

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you just don't

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you don't sort of gut it out

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in this case

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because there was evidence

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and more and more evidence

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as the weeks went on

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that she had at least played fast and loose

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with these time honored standards

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which are in Harvard's own book of rules

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and as a

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former Ivy League student myself

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who faced a disciplinary hearing

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in fact

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about possible

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copying

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I was not sympathetic

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when I was at Princeton

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I was given a Spanish quiz

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at a table, a round table

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where we sat shoulder to shoulder

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and a student across from me

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claimed that he saw me

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look at the paper next to mine

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This is like that Woody Allen joke

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about the metaphysics class

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where you look into the soul

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of the boy sitting next to you

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Exactly

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Not to rerun my defense

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in the great Spanish paper controversy of 1980

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but

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I remembered having indeed looked

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at the paper next to me

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to see whether the guy

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it was a timed test

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to see what page he was on

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compared to me

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who was not going very quickly

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through his test

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and anyway

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that turned into this brouhaha

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I almost had to call my parents

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and say

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that Princeton education

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that expensive thing

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that we're all engaged in here

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it just fell apart

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I knew she wasn't long for this world

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and when she resigned this week

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she made a statement

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that suggested the whole thing

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was a racial episode

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To jump in

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I hadn't really been paying attention

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to this whole thing

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so I kind of started from that

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from her op-ed that came out

20:30.48 – 20:33.14

in the New York Times this week

20:33.14 – 20:36.98

and the op-ed's

20:37.94 – 20:38.66

incredible

20:38.66 – 20:43.04

it's almost like a list

20:43.04 – 20:45.44

of every rhetorical technique

20:45.44 – 20:47.46

that's been dragged out

20:48.32 – 20:51.48

kind of in this most recent

20:52.82 – 20:54.64

I hate the word

20:54.64 – 20:57.32

cancel culture era

20:57.32 – 20:59.06

when people say

21:00.32 – 21:02.04

talking about the attacks

21:02.04 – 21:03.00

that you've faced

21:04.38 – 21:06.78

the number of times you've been called

21:06.78 – 21:07.56

the n-word

21:09.36 – 21:12.10

I've been accused of not fighting

21:12.10 – 21:14.02

anti-semitism

21:14.02 – 21:15.42

but then the big one was

21:15.42 – 21:19.14

she said that what was happening with her

21:19.14 – 21:20.46

wasn't about her

21:20.46 – 21:22.78

but it was a skirmish

21:22.78 – 21:23.80

in a broader war

21:23.80 – 21:25.56

to unravel public faith

21:25.56 – 21:28.26

in the pillars of American society

21:28.26 – 21:31.64

so when you go after me

21:31.64 – 21:33.24

you're not attacking me

21:33.24 – 21:38.04

you're trying to undermine the pillars of American society

21:38.04 – 21:41.30

I almost admired her at that point

21:41.30 – 21:43.18

it takes balls

21:43.18 – 21:45.72

to write something like that

21:45.72 – 21:47.12

and put it in the New York Times

21:47.12 – 21:49.18

which I assume is probably how she became

21:49.18 – 21:51.26

president of Harvard to begin with

21:51.26 – 21:57.46

you have to really have some nerve

21:57.46 – 22:00.38

to take positions like that

22:01.06 – 22:03.14

but then I thought well it's possible

22:03.14 – 22:06.42

that she really was unfairly

22:07.24 – 22:09.50

rung up on plagiarism charges

22:09.50 – 22:13.14

as does happen, we have these new plagiarism checkers

22:13.14 – 22:16.42

that use AI to look for similarities

22:18.48 – 22:19.96

I'm always

22:19.96 – 22:21.34

unsympathetic to writers

22:21.34 – 22:22.70

who are even close

22:22.70 – 22:23.22

because

22:26.48 – 22:28.38

a good writer

22:29.50 – 22:31.48

that's not going to happen to you or me

22:31.48 – 22:33.48

because it just wouldn't occur to us

22:33.48 – 22:38.66

to try to downshift to somebody else's

22:38.66 – 22:39.54

text

22:39.54 – 22:43.40

but it does happen

22:43.40 – 22:45.10

and there are people who

22:45.10 – 22:48.78

maybe they're trying to take something

22:48.78 – 22:51.42

that's kind of an unremarkable piece of data

22:51.42 – 22:54.18

and transfer it

22:55.38 – 22:57.70

and then you have to artificially make it

22:57.70 – 22:58.78

your own

22:58.78 – 23:01.94

but she's got example after example

23:01.94 – 23:04.94

of using other people's language

23:05.86 – 23:08.14

whole passages full of them

23:08.14 – 23:11.68

and there's tricks in there to try to defeat

23:11.68 – 23:13.96

the old Google system

23:14.56 – 23:17.50

like inserting parentheses

23:19.24 – 23:20.84

to try to break up

23:21.82 – 23:23.78

the text and that sort of thing

23:23.78 – 23:26.22

Matt you just pronounced parentheses

23:26.22 – 23:28.42

in a way that I've never heard it before

23:28.42 – 23:30.24

did you mean parentheses?

23:34.62 – 23:35.22

parentheses

23:37.06 – 23:38.96

I thought that's what you said

23:38.96 – 23:40.02

you said parentheses

23:40.02 – 23:41.86

not to be a stickler

23:44.42 – 23:46.78

I'm a whisperer

23:46.78 – 23:49.50

I thought maybe that was the Jersey way

23:49.50 – 23:50.94

to do it

23:52.80 – 23:54.98

they had her dead to rights

23:56.48 – 23:58.66

they had her dead to rights

23:58.66 – 24:01.64

and what I found amusing

24:02.26 – 24:04.84

interesting is the apologetics

24:04.84 – 24:06.26

that have come out since

24:09.26 – 24:11.26

they've basically suggested

24:11.88 – 24:13.72

that yeah

24:13.72 – 24:15.38

she might have been a plagiarist

24:15.38 – 24:16.88

yeah she copied stuff

24:16.88 – 24:20.78

but the origins of her persecution

24:20.78 – 24:22.54

are what we should worry about

24:23.14 – 24:26.44

the fact that a guy named Christopher Ruffo

24:26.44 – 24:28.38

and this Bill Ackman

24:28.38 – 24:30.94

who's been on Harvard's case ever since

24:30.94 – 24:32.80

over the Gaza thing

24:34.04 – 24:37.44

are people who shouldn't be allowed

24:37.44 – 24:40.70

to bring such issues to the floor

24:40.70 – 24:43.10

that in other words

24:44.18 – 24:46.24

though she may be guilty

24:47.14 – 24:49.08

her accusers are guiltier

24:49.68 – 24:52.50

in some overwhelming cultural

24:52.50 – 24:54.06

political sense

24:54.06 – 24:56.52

and therefore

24:58.68 – 25:00.36

the whole thing

25:00.36 – 25:03.84

the whole effort to hold her to these standards

25:03.84 – 25:05.14

was tainted

25:07.22 – 25:10.24

one of the writers Stephen Voss

25:10.24 – 25:13.24

even said the work was technically plagiarism

25:13.24 – 25:15.76

but described it as minor to inconsequential

25:17.92 – 25:20.60

on the plagiarism scale

25:20.60 – 25:22.74

on the well-known plagiarism scale

25:22.74 – 25:24.96

it's like the pain scale at the hospital

25:24.96 – 25:28.12

where they ask you if your pain is 1-10

25:28.12 – 25:30.58

you always add 2

25:30.58 – 25:33.26

you want the pills

25:35.34 – 25:38.64

but here you always subtract 2

25:38.64 – 25:40.62

because it's the president of Harvard

25:40.62 – 25:44.34

the plagiarism scale gets adjusted slightly

25:44.34 – 25:47.40

depending on what will be lost

25:47.94 – 25:50.16

if one is convicted of it

25:50.16 – 25:56.50

in a weird way

25:56.50 – 26:01.84

one of those hard boundaries

26:01.84 – 26:04.70

that always worked in the past

26:04.70 – 26:06.94

is something plagiarism or not

26:07.94 – 26:10.14

we decide by how many words

26:10.14 – 26:12.04

are the same in the same order

26:12.64 – 26:14.88

it seemed to be one of the easiest

26:15.64 – 26:17.82

how can I put it

26:17.82 – 26:21.30

one of the easiest infractions to judge

26:21.30 – 26:23.32

even for the layperson

26:23.32 – 26:27.00

suddenly has become this foggy

26:28.26 – 26:30.64

socio-cultural battleground

26:32.28 – 26:33.74

like everything

26:33.74 – 26:35.62

and as you said

26:37.20 – 26:40.00

this is a minor case

26:40.00 – 26:42.64

according to others

26:43.60 – 26:45.00

Jonathan Chait

26:45.00 – 26:48.40

at the New York Magazine

26:50.06 – 26:52.56

saying three things are true

26:52.56 – 26:53.52

I saw him say

26:53.52 – 26:55.34

bullet points

26:55.34 – 26:56.24

1, 2, 3

26:56.24 – 26:59.78

it was a political persecution

26:59.78 – 27:01.50

2, she was guilty

27:02.10 – 27:04.96

and 3, something something

27:12.26 – 27:15.74

in Hollywood they have a term

27:15.74 – 27:18.90

when you're talking to an actor

27:18.90 – 27:21.18

and you want to criticize them

27:21.18 – 27:23.06

you call it making a sandwich

27:23.06 – 27:25.10

you say one thing

27:25.70 – 27:27.76

I love your hair

27:27.76 – 27:31.24

2, you're doing a terrible job

27:31.24 – 27:33.70

3, I love your clothes

27:36.08 – 27:38.16

Chait kind of made a sandwich

27:38.16 – 27:39.70

about gay there

27:40.70 – 27:42.10

only in number 2

27:42.10 – 27:45.42

was there any actual meat

27:48.14 – 27:50.50

but I gotta say

27:50.50 – 27:52.44

I found the whole thing

27:52.44 – 27:54.34

in the end satisfying

27:54.34 – 27:55.72

first of all

27:55.72 – 27:59.74

because my wife went to Harvard

27:59.74 – 28:02.42

and I'm in a constant battle

28:05.36 – 28:07.84

I have another family member

28:07.84 – 28:08.42

who went there

28:08.42 – 28:10.94

but I don't talk about my children

28:13.70 – 28:15.90

I'm beset from different sides

28:15.90 – 28:17.32

on the Harvard question

28:17.32 – 28:18.56

and I don't have ammo

28:18.56 – 28:23.84

but I gotta say

28:23.84 – 28:26.92

to see Americans

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